Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Dawger on June 17, 2010, 09:49:34 PM

Title: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Dawger on June 17, 2010, 09:49:34 PM
Thanks for the work you guys do for this arena.

 :salute

I have more fun in an hour in the no icons AvA than in a year in the MA.

 :rock

 :aok
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Puma44 on June 18, 2010, 01:07:03 AM
Ditto!  What Dawger said!   :salute  Thanks again for all the great effort!
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: captain1ma on June 18, 2010, 07:10:40 AM
I'm glad you guys like it, I'm enjoying it too.
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Fianna40 on June 18, 2010, 05:06:53 PM
Thanks for the work you guys do for this arena.

 salute

I have more fun in an hour in the no icons AvA than in a year in the MA.

Agreed. This is a neat place, and I'm slowly learning.  :airplane:
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Oldman731 on June 18, 2010, 08:02:51 PM
I have more fun in an hour in the no icons AvA than in a year in the MA.

Good fights last night, Dawger, you're very adept in that 38!

Yes, the no icons thing has turned out to be a significant change for the better.  It really does have a profound effect on how people fly and fight.

- oldman
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Chilli on June 19, 2010, 03:27:43 AM
I found jappa and another wingman popping just inside dar ring.  I had just finished with an awesome 1 vs 1 with Eagler, and managed to bleed all his fuel from his wings  :salute

At first I was under the impression that the pair was a bomber formation missing a drone (that's how tight they were maneuvering) and without icon, I was wondering how fast those Ju88s were. :lol

I was able to get into range and land some .303 blows before the pair split and the fight was on!  :joystick:  It was an awesome run, ended by jappa's cannons and a drink for me and my hurri.  :salute

I appologize for my quick exit after that, my connection often discoes me and wasn't able to get back in before I left for work.  Still 15 or so minutes with 4 or 5 players actively flying in the arena is a blast.  It beats MA play on any day.  :rock
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Jappa52 on June 19, 2010, 10:05:52 AM
Yeah we hadn't split out tactical yet and you caught us with our eyes glued forward. I saw the 303/death of a thousand needles hit and pass over my cockpit a we went at it. Was a lot of fun  :rock

We learned that 109Es have a devil of a time with hurris if everything is equal and if the hurris have a tad bit of alt 109s are in bad shape. Cant out turn, cant out run and no zoom climb. Need to be on your toes and be sure to try and get a shot on em early with our cannons. Dont think we landed kills all night lol

It was a blast as usual. See you guys there  :salute
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Chilli on June 19, 2010, 04:05:39 PM
Who was the wingman Jappa?  That was some impressive formation flying.  I swear you had a drone  :rofl  I was actually surprised when I saw you two split, I actually believed it was some sort of new Axis secret weapon bomber formation that HTC had added or something.  I was rubbing my eyes to see if I could make out a single engine JU88 formation.  I wish I had filmed it.  The thrill was in the hunt, because the kill came way too soon for me  :confused:
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Kung Fu on June 19, 2010, 09:04:23 PM
Tuesdays when you guys fly?  I'd like to get in there and mix it up when there are some numbers.  This might get me flying regularly again.
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: gyrene81 on June 19, 2010, 11:13:17 PM
Tuesdays when you guys fly?  I'd like to get in there and mix it up when there are some numbers.  This might get me flying regularly again.
Where you been Fu? The squad has been looking for you, or have you jumped ship without notice?
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Puma44 on June 19, 2010, 11:18:56 PM
Chilli,
That was me on the wing with Jappa.  We always fly real world formations appropriate for the situation.  When you did that great sneak up on our 6, we were in a "fingertip" formation, normally used for en route  through areas of low visibility or no threat.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/SnakeLiftoff.jpg)
 
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/OnJappasWing.jpg)

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/tightfingertip.jpg)

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/ThypyFormFingertip-1.png)
Typically, when approaching the threat area, we take a slit into a line abreast tactical formation that offers optimum mutual support and deep six coverage for each.  You caught us unaware until I noticed tracers flying by between us  :x .  At that point we went into a tac split.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/TacSplit.jpg)

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/Ontheway.jpg)
When out of a threat area, we normally rejoin to fingertip for the trip back to base and do either a pitch off initial or a formation landing.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/JappaPonyShortFinal.jpg)

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/Snaketouchdown.jpg)

We also do fingertip formation takeoffs on each departure.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/JeffLead.jpg)
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: captain1ma on June 20, 2010, 11:28:35 AM
boy i need to catch you guys, i don't use tracers!!  :D
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Dawger on June 20, 2010, 11:52:38 AM
boy i need to catch you guys, i don't use tracers!!  :D

From what I've seen of Jappa and Puma winging together I'm not so sure no tracers would matter much.

Nice formation work by those guys and they understand the concept of mutually supporting fields of vision and the importance of beginning any engagement in the proper formation.
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Puma44 on June 20, 2010, 06:20:49 PM
Dawger,
There's really nothing all that cosmic about tactical formation.  It's just a basic visual lookout formation that works; real world and in here.  Just a matter of applying it.

Yaeger,
Well, "tracers off" works well if one is consistently lethal with the first couple of rounds.  With the first couple of "pings", game on and tactical maneuvering comes into play with effective mutual support.  Tracers on or off doesn't matter at that point.  A tally on the bandit pretty much nullifies the tracer issue.  If a good sneak up on someones deep six that isn't checking six works(like Chilli pulled off on us the other day :O), it doesn't really matter once the trigger is pulled.  Boom, game over.  It is interesting to hear the whining in the MAs when someone gets violated from deep six and no one called a check six for them.  Your six belongs to you and no one else.  If you aren't checking it frequently and someone sneaks it, then you've failed yourself.  Yeah, it's great when someone else can, at random, check it for ya.  Just another valid reason to fly formation and practice mutual support...all the way to the end of the landing roll.
It's all, as called in the real world, "technique only".  :aok

That was some great flying "in the phone booth" with you guys the other day with the Hurri's and us in the 109s.  That Hurri is a tough one to maneuver against in a slow turning fight.  :salute

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/F-4s/F-4BinLaden.jpg)

Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Dawger on June 20, 2010, 08:26:23 PM
Dawger,
There's really nothing all that cosmic about tactical formation.  It's just a basic visual lookout formation that works; real world and in here.  Just a matter of applying it.


Simple in concept but it is amazing how hard it is to get across to other folks in game how such a simple thing makes a huge difference. Element (wing pair or section) tactics start from an assumed starting point of combat spread (usually) yet very few folks in game have the inclination or ability to maintain that simple formation.

Folk want to move on to the "good stuff" but the good stuff requires a solid foundation to build on. You can't really fight as a team if you are flying in girl scout trail formation all the time.
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: maddafinga on June 20, 2010, 09:31:01 PM
Went and flew in there for a while the first time ever today.  Had a good time, really enjoyed the no icons.  Makes killing stuff with the Hurri a lot harder, as it's hard to tell in a fight if you're really close enough for the bbs to do much work.  Had a couple of really long and fun 1v1 fights.  I'll definitely be coming back, good times!

Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Dawger on June 21, 2010, 12:53:54 AM
Went and flew in there for a while the first time ever today.  Had a good time, really enjoyed the no icons.  Makes killing stuff with the Hurri a lot harder, as it's hard to tell in a fight if you're really close enough for the bbs to do much work.  Had a couple of really long and fun 1v1 fights.  I'll definitely be coming back, good times!



You can actually approximate distance using the gun sight. The best way to learn to do this is to fly offline in the airplane you plan to fly (Hurricane in this case) and setup the offline drones to the target aircraft and fly towards them. Using your normal seat position note at what range the wingtips stretch across the gun sight circle. Generally, a 109 stretches across the circle at about 150 yards. This is going to vary a bit with head position. Closer to the sight and the target has to be closer to fill the gunsight. Farther away has the opposite effect. A good rule of thumb is small single engine fighter is within 200 yards when the wingtips touch both sides at the default head position. Bigger wingspan means farther away when it touches both sides.

And this is how the pilots had to determine range in reality so it makes it that much more fun.
Title: Re: Attention AvA Staff........
Post by: Puma44 on June 21, 2010, 01:42:28 AM
All good points, Dawger.  Jappa and I most frequently see the "Girl Scout formation" as you call it (and aptly so).  I think that will be our new term instead of "in trail".

You are absolutely right.  Mutual supportive formation is essential for survival and success in any engagement. For instance, in this screen shot, it's pretty clear who has mutual support and not.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/MidBerry.jpg)

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/EndOluftberry.jpg)
As you term it, the "Girl Scout formation" isn't working well here.  Well, maybe for the guy right behind Jappa until he runs outta grapes behind him.......