Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Nemisis on June 22, 2010, 01:10:21 PM

Title: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 22, 2010, 01:10:21 PM
I've been playing with a logitec joystick, a keyboard, and a headset since I started. I've heard a lot of people talk about rudder pedals, and I was wondering if they help all that much (I haven't noticed a real difference when using rudder in combat, and when omiting it).

And if they are worth the buy, whats a good brand?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Krusty on June 22, 2010, 01:13:11 PM
There are only a handful of options.

Yes, they help. A lot. But first they hurt. A lot. You have to relearn how to fly and fight with them but after that point you won't go back.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: allaire on June 22, 2010, 01:51:30 PM
It also depends on what your build is like.  Some pedals can give you pedalnuts rather quickly.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 22, 2010, 02:39:52 PM
about average.


And Krusty, how do you mean that it will hurt at first?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: ink on June 22, 2010, 02:55:21 PM
about average.


And Krusty, how do you mean that it will hurt at first?

if ya used a twisty stick, it is very different switching over to peddles, you will routinely hit the wrong peddle, input too much or not enough

I used the twisty stick for about 3 years  and when I went to rudder peddles it took about a solid month to be able to fly with out using them wrong.

seriously though I will never go back to twisty, due to the fact with a twisty you always input a small amount when you don't want to, with the peddles that is gone.

and the CH fighter stick is so awesome, it dont have a "twisty" so I need the peddles.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 22, 2010, 02:58:56 PM
I've always used my keyboard for everything but roll, pitch, firing, dive breaks, and combat trim.

Its served me well, but it would be nice not to have to take my hand off the stick or fly with my right one so often.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: ink on June 22, 2010, 03:06:56 PM
I've always used my keyboard for everything but roll, pitch, firing, dive breaks, and combat trim.

Its served me well, but it would be nice not to have to take my hand off the stick or fly with my right one so often.

peddles will do ya good :aok
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: The Fugitive on June 22, 2010, 04:31:39 PM
I've always used my keyboard for everything but roll, pitch, firing, dive breaks, and combat trim.

Its served me well, but it would be nice not to have to take my hand off the stick or fly with my right one so often.

No wonder you spend all that time in the GVs. I would too if I couldn't use rudders while flying.

I have CH pedals and they are great. Saitek has a set as well as a couple of over sea brands. Most have the foot rest spread apart about 18 inches from center of your heel to center of heel. The CH on the other hand is closer to 8 inches apart. Im 6'1 and over 260....don't tell my wife!... and have no troubles using the CH pedals.

Learning to use rudders will give you a big leap in the fun of flying fighters.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Krusty on June 22, 2010, 04:35:19 PM
Every plane I dove on to attack for about 3 months straight, I rammed, when I started learning to fly with rudder pedals.


That's why I said it will hurt. You have to learn. In that time, you'll feel frustration.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Lusche on June 22, 2010, 04:42:01 PM
No wonder you spend all that time in the GVs. I would too if I couldn't use rudders while flying.

Rudder pedals are great in Gvs too. I can eat my lunch and still drive a M3, using the pedals to steer from the gunner's position :)
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 22, 2010, 05:04:29 PM
I've never understood why people have a hard time transitioning from a twisty stick to foot pedals.  I remember when I made the switch to from a MS Sidewinder twisty to a CH HOTAS with Pro Pedals and there wasn't any "re-learing to fly or dogfight" involved.  It wasn't a night and day type of thing, what was night and day for me was getting used to all the new buttons and a seperate throttle but not the pedals.  Maybe it was because I was already used to the pedals because of where I worked at the time.


ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: 68Wooley on June 22, 2010, 05:21:17 PM
For some reason I had it in my mind that peddles would work the other way around from what they do i.e. to yaw left you would push the right peddle. Took a lot on gnashing of teeth 'unlearning' that  :mad:

For me, peddles are a much more important 'upgrade' than TrackIR.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: guncrasher on June 22, 2010, 06:10:26 PM
Akak not all of us were born as awesome as you are.  And most of us never will be, so I guess that's why you will never understand us dweebs.


Semp
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: ink on June 22, 2010, 06:28:34 PM
I've never understood why people have a hard time transitioning from a twisty stick to foot pedals.  I remember when I made the switch to from a MS Sidewinder twisty to a CH HOTAS with Pro Pedals and there wasn't any "re-learing to fly or dogfight" involved.  It wasn't a night and day type of thing, what was night and day for me was getting used to all the new buttons and a seperate throttle but not the pedals.  Maybe it was because I was already used to the pedals because of where I worked at the time.


ack-ack

seems to me you answered your own question :uhoh
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 22, 2010, 08:38:38 PM
Akak not all of us were born as awesome as you are. 


Semp

Yeah, it's a shame. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: guncrasher on June 22, 2010, 09:28:35 PM
Yeah, it's a shame. 


ack-ack

yup vanity the favorite sin  :t.

semp
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 22, 2010, 09:33:39 PM
Sweet, now I can keep dodging shells and type out an urgent request for supps at the same time.

Anyone besides Ack-Ack have anything more than vauge information?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ghastly on June 22, 2010, 10:45:23 PM
They allow you to much more precisely control the aircraft, and in many aircraft, a little bit of slippage due to not having the ball centered equal a whole lot of E-bleed.  Once you get used to them, you'll wonder how you got along without them.  Even a reasonably average pilot (like myself) gains significantly from the use of them.

I've only used 2 different brands.  I really loved my Simpeds, although I'm currently using the CH pedals.  I have an older set of gameport Simpeds without toe brakes, and when I switched from the modded Sidewinder 3D to a CH Rig it was just a lot easier to switch to CH than deal with trying to integrate the gameport version into the new XP rig - this was before the USB adapters were being made, and it would have required maintaining a "junk" joystick that was just one more piece of stuff to have in the way. I did buy a gameport to USB converter a while back, but I've gotten accustomed to the toe brakes on the CH and don't really want to give up that feature, so I've continued using the CH pedals rather than the Simpeds.  The new version with the toe brakes is ideally what I'd like to do - except that I've been averaging about 3 hours of flying a month and can't justify the expense. 

The CH Pedals are in my opinion the "weak link" in the CH line up.  They work reasonably well, but are very very closely spaced, and (compared to my Simpeds) are much harder to control with precision.  I did replace the centering spring with something much lighter, so that I could make precise movements around center more easily.

Other than these two,  I believe that Saitek makes pedels, and what little I've seen of them they look worth looking into (wide spaced, toe brakes) but I have no first hand experience with them.  I'm also not sure what Guillimot/Thrustmaster has available these days.

<S>


Title: Re: pedals
Post by: guncrasher on June 23, 2010, 02:52:52 AM
nemesis their fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Tigger29 on June 23, 2010, 01:41:36 PM
nemesis they're fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

GRAMMAR NAZI STRIKES AGAIN!

But seriously.. if you're not using rudders AT ALL, then you are seriously missing out.  I can't hardly control a plane without rudder control anymore, let alone aim or strafe, or dive bomb...

If you are currently using a TWISTY for rudder, and want to know how the pedals will help... well it's simple... since the pedals are separate, you won't accidentally engage unwanted rudder input while moving the stick.. and pedals are a lot more accurate.

As for transition time... some people pick it up immediately... some people take forever.. it's kind of like Track-IR.  Some people never get used to it.  I would say that if you've been using a twisty for a long, long time... then it'll take you awhile to get used to pedals.. but stick with it it's worth it.  If you weren't using rudder at all then you should pick it up fairly easily.

I used to have an X45 that had a rocker on the back of the throttle for rudder... which was nice but not accurate at all.  Transitioning from that to pedals was very easy, but I also have some real life piloting experience (not a lot, but enough... about a half-dozen takeoffs, 2 landings, and a few hours of cruising time in a Cessna 172).

I got one of the first Saitek rudder pedals which have a design flaw (they keep coming off track) and it's happened so much that they don't stay fixed anymore, which is a shame because they are very nice.  The ones you buy today have been corrected so this problem won't happen now.  I still can't complain though.. I got 2 1/2 years out of a 'defective' set, but until I can replace it, I'm stuck using the twisty on my X52 and having a heck of a time with it.  I may stick with level bombing and GV'ing for a while...

I hope this helps..
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: danny76 on June 23, 2010, 01:52:01 PM
I've never understood why people have a hard time transitioning from a twisty stick to foot pedals.  I remember when I made the switch to from a MS Sidewinder twisty to a CH HOTAS with Pro Pedals and there wasn't any "re-learing to fly or dogfight" involved.  It wasn't a night and day type of thing, what was night and day for me was getting used to all the new buttons and a seperate throttle but not the pedals.  Maybe it was because I was already used to the pedals because of where I worked at the time.


ack-ack
Sorry. Was going to reply but failed to summon up the energy
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 23, 2010, 02:53:30 PM
Sorry. Was going to reply but failed to summon up the energy

But apparently enough to post.


ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 23, 2010, 03:04:34 PM
OK, I've never really used flaps asside from adjusting a bomb run, used for hammerheads, and for landing. What do you USE them for exactly? I hear that they help turning, they will help you with with lining up for a shot, etc.

But HOW do you use them to that effect is what I need to know. I wasn't formaly trained to fly anything; I've self taught everything I know, asside from a few tank gunnery tricks compliments of Dr7.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: The Fugitive on June 23, 2010, 03:41:34 PM
nemesis their fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

I get a a kick out of comments like this. They are often followed by comments like "I really suck in a fighter" and "I don't spend much time in fighters because I get shot down all the time".

Flying with out rudders and flaps is like playing basketball in flip-flops. Sure you can do it, but a 10 year old in a pair of sneakers is going to wipe the floor with you.

Ya it can make that big a difference.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 23, 2010, 04:03:29 PM
I still work the flaps and throttle in combat, just not the rudder. I never learned how to do it, and what it DOES.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Tigger29 on June 23, 2010, 04:49:33 PM
I still work the flaps and throttle in combat, just not the rudder. I never learned how to do it, and what it DOES.

It's pretty simple... there are three primary flight controls:

1> Elevators (pitch)... this pitches the plane upwards or downwards
2> Ailerons (bank/roll)... this rolls the plane clockwise or counter-clockwise
3> Rudders (yaw)... this turns the plane left or right.. kind of like how a car turns

What flaps do is create turbulence which helps the plane fly more controllable at slower speeds, and can help to 'pull up' with more force (and could help with a last-ditch effort to increase the turn rate during a dogfight)... BUT at the cost of increased drag on the plane which means you'll lose E more quickly with flaps deployed which is why they are so useful for landing.  They allow you to maintain control at the slower speeds required for landing, and also help you to slow down enough for touch-down.

Rudder control is  actually used to turn the airplane on the ground (however some models have wheels that can turn left/right like a car as well).  Flying without rudder control, while possible, makes it difficult to maintain fine control of the aircraft... such as lining up for landing, and pointing your nose in the proper place to get a good shot off on an enemy, or on a strat.

Although not really modeled in this game, it is not wise to fly in real life without rudder control, as turns require a combination of all three surfaces to keep the g-force fluctuations to a minimum, to make a more comfortable flying experience for passengers.  A rudder only turn would force everyone in the plane to to left or to the right (like a hard turn in a car).  Moving only the ailerons would cause everyone to fall to the left or to the right, and if you were to make a turn using only elevators and ailerons, everyone would be pushed down into their seats which while fun for some people, isn't exactly comfortable for everyone.  Adding a bit of rudder into a turn not only makes the turn faster, but it also helps to stabilize the forces felt by the passengers.

Here's a pretty good 'novice' article about it all at wikipedia HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_control_surfaces)


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flight_dynamics_with_text.png/800px-Flight_dynamics_with_text.png)
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 23, 2010, 05:17:07 PM
What do you USE them for exactly? I hear that they help turning, they will help you with with lining up for a shot, etc.

Coordinated turns, aid in rolling, side slipping (skidding), speed control and when a maneuver calls for some rudder input.

nemesis their fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

Completely wrong.  No other controller can provide as accurate rudder input as a set of rudder pedals can and frankly, for a flight sim it's pretty high on the 'must have category' in order to get the fullest out of your plane.  Sure, you can get by with a twisty stick and some do quite well within one but no one using a twisty stick will ever be as precise in their rudder input as someone using a set of rudder pedals and go beyond improving one's turning a 'bit'.  A person using a twisty stick will always be at a disadvantage over someone using a set of rudder pedals.


ack-ack

Title: Re: pedals
Post by: guncrasher on June 23, 2010, 07:27:39 PM
I get a a kick out of comments like this. They are often followed by comments like "I really suck in a fighter" and "I don't spend much time in fighters because I get shot down all the time".

Flying with out rudders and flaps is like playing basketball in flip-flops. Sure you can do it, but a 10 year old in a pair of sneakers is going to wipe the floor with you.

Ya it can make that big a difference.

I have never flown without using rudders or flaps.  And fugitive, there's been more than a few times when you couldnt wipe the floor with mea and you have tried.  and by the way I really suck in fighter, you know why?  I love furballing too much to worry about score or skill as you put it.  I play for fun and that's all the skill I want  :bolt:


Coordinated turns, aid in rolling, side slipping (skidding), speed control and when a maneuver calls for some rudder input.

Completely wrong.  No other controller can provide as accurate rudder input as a set of rudder pedals can and frankly, for a flight sim it's pretty high on the 'must have category' in order to get the fullest out of your plane.  Sure, you can get by with a twisty stick and some do quite well within one but no one using a twisty stick will ever be as precise in their rudder input as someone using a set of rudder pedals and go beyond improving one's turning a 'bit'.  A person using a twisty stick will always be at a disadvantage over someone using a set of rudder pedals.


ack-ack



but they're not required to play the game.  actually some really good sticks here dont use pedals.  Using pedals wont actually improve your skill.  You can have the best toys, but still suck at the game.  but that's not what he was asking, was it.

semp
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 23, 2010, 07:43:58 PM

but they're not required to play the game.  actually some really good sticks here dont use pedals.  Using pedals wont actually improve your skill.  You can have the best toys, but still suck at the game.  but that's not what he was asking, was it.

semp

Yes, there are good sticks that don't use pedals but hate to tell you, regardless of skill they'll always be at a disadvantage over someone that uses pedals because the pedals are naturally more precise and accurate in their movements than a twisty stick rudder.  Yes, it will improve one's flying skills, especially in using basic flight maneuvers but it won't necessarily improve their fighting/ACM skills.


ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: The Fugitive on June 23, 2010, 07:51:44 PM
I have never flown without using rudders or flaps.  And fugitive, there's been more than a few times when you couldnt wipe the floor with mea and you have tried.  and by the way I really suck in fighter, you know why?  I love furballing too much to worry about score or skill as you put it.  I play for fun and that's all the skill I want  :bolt:


but they're not required to play the game.  actually some really good sticks here dont use pedals.  Using pedals wont actually improve your skill.  You can have the best toys, but still suck at the game.  but that's not what he was asking, was it.

semp

It may be my old beer soaked brain, but I don't remember flying against you. I couldn't care less if you can beat me or not. For me its all about the fight, not the win or loss. My comment about "wiping the floor" wasn't directed at you ( a little defensive on your part don't you think  :rolleyes: ) The point of my comment is if a person wants to be a better cartoon pilot rudders are almost must have. You telling people that they are not that big a deal is incorrect information and all I was doing was pointing that out.

So go climb back into your beginners plane and go have some fun in all the furballs that will be popping up now.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 23, 2010, 09:20:30 PM
So close, yet so far. Can anyone tell me how to use rudder in combat (when to use it, and the exact steps if its rather complicated)?


And Tigger29, I was just asking about the rudder, not the flaps thing. However that is a nice pic, and I think I will steal it from you.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Reschke on June 23, 2010, 10:19:41 PM
The CH Pedals are in my opinion the "weak link" in the CH line up.  They work reasonably well, but are very very closely spaced, and (compared to my Simpeds) are much harder to control with precision.  I did replace the centering spring with something much lighter, so that I could make precise movements around center more easily.
CH is far from the best pedals I have ever used.

I have not used the Simpeds but I have some buddies from the old Cougar World group that swear by the things and absolutely love 'em.

Other than these two,  I believe that Saitek makes pedels, and what little I've seen of them they look worth looking into (wide spaced, toe brakes) but I have no first hand experience with them. 
I have a set now and they are great. Nice wide setup and good toe brake functionality as well. I got them for a steal on EBay for about $50 brand new with no wear on them.

I'm also not sure what Guillimot/Thrustmaster has available these days.

Nothing at all at this time and sadly no information/rumors/dreams on anything for the future. I wish they would have followed through on the RCS Pro (toe brake version) they were supposed to release around the time of the Cougar as well.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 23, 2010, 10:21:57 PM
So close, yet so far. Can anyone tell me how to use rudder in combat (when to use it, and the exact steps if its rather complicated)?


The best way to learn is to get with a trainer and have him teach you coordinated turns and then move on up to more advanced maneuvers using the rudders.  Not to knock you but it would be quicker and just a lot easier for you to get help from a trainer instead of us writing a novel in trying to explain each instance when rudders are used.  There are just somethings you need to work at instead of depending on someone handing you the Dummy's Guide To Rudders on a silver platter.

A good starting point is the post from Trigger29.

ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Cobra516 on June 23, 2010, 11:10:36 PM
CH is far from the best pedals I have ever used.

Nothing at all at this time and sadly no information/rumors/dreams on anything for the future. I wish they would have followed through on the RCS Pro (toe brake version) they were supposed to release around the time of the Cougar as well.
I have a set of CH pedals, they're excellent and have lasted me about 8 years now.  If you can find a pair on eBay, the TM Elite's are also nice.    

I spent about an hour talking with Claude Guillemot (the president of Guillemot/Thrustmaster) at the Warthog preview event last week.  He is a very nice gentleman and is a a pilot too, flys a Cessna 421 Eagle in France, so we talked all about flying and flight sims.  I emphasized that TM really needed to come out with a nice set of pedals to compliment the Warthog.  I said that many people in the community are really wanting Thrustmaster/Guillemot to make a new set of pedals, since the Elite's were such a success and are still sought after.  He seemed to agree with me and said he would certainly think about it and talk it over with the company.  Although it was a relatively informal discussion we had, I hope it may have "got his wheels turning" about the idea.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 24, 2010, 03:06:09 AM
Rgr, thanks Ack-Ack.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Reschke on June 24, 2010, 08:04:22 AM
Thanks for the information on the conversation Cobra/Ray. As for the CH that is based on what I know from my experience. I bought some on two different occasions and sold them after about 3-6 months. I started out on TM RCS pedals and absolutely love them. I wish I had time and energy to wire up my own RCS pedals for toe brakes but that isn't going to happen. I have already upgraded them with the HS kit from Cubpilot.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: dunnrite on June 24, 2010, 12:31:34 PM
I have a set of CH pedals, they're excellent and have lasted me about 8 years now.  If you can find a pair on eBay, the TM Elite's are also nice.    

I actually decided to look on ebay for some CH pedals yesterday evening.  Found some with no reserve and 2 bidders.  Price at the time was 2.99 (I think).  Lucky for me, I joined in the bidding with under a minute left, and ended up winning some "brand new" pedals for $4.25.  The guy has a perfect history and has sold alot of stuff.  I'm just hoping they truly are new or close to it.  For under 5 bucks, I figured it's worth a shot.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: SIK1 on June 24, 2010, 12:42:47 PM
I actually decided to look on ebay for some CH pedals yesterday evening.  Found some with no reserve and 2 bidders.  Price at the time was 2.99 (I think).  Lucky for me, I joined in the bidding with under a minute left, and ended up winning some "brand new" pedals for $4.25.  The guy has a perfect history and has sold alot of stuff.  I'm just hoping they truly are new or close to it.  For under 5 bucks, I figured it's worth a shot.

Are they new usb pedals, or are they the old gameport type? If they're usb, and the guy doesn't hose you on the shipping you scored. :aok

I've had a set of CH pedals for years and the only knock I have against them is that they need to be wider.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Vudak on June 24, 2010, 03:27:44 PM
So close, yet so far. Can anyone tell me how to use rudder in combat (when to use it, and the exact steps if its rather complicated)?


One quick thing you can try for yourself is to grab a plane and point the nose straight UP.  See how long you can keep it there without rudder input, and then see how long you can keep it there while using the rudder to force/steer it there.

Practicing this will give you an immediate edge in your roping manuevers, and will also help you learn how your plane responds to rudder input at extremely low speed.  

A corsair is a good plane to practice this on.  I imagine a hellcat would be good as well.  Maybe a 109 if you prefer something different (though throttle management would probably be more key in this than the Corsair for this maneuver).

Edit - once your nose finally falls, and you tailslide, don't forget to practice using the rudder to regain control where you want to.  Use something like a hangar or runway for orientation purposes.

If you're wondering how some people can float around like a helicopter, and magically gain control at the most inopportune (for you) moments, this will show you.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: The Fugitive on June 24, 2010, 04:16:26 PM
I actually decided to look on ebay for some CH pedals yesterday evening.  Found some with no reserve and 2 bidders.  Price at the time was 2.99 (I think).  Lucky for me, I joined in the bidding with under a minute left, and ended up winning some "brand new" pedals for $4.25.  The guy has a perfect history and has sold alot of stuff.  I'm just hoping they truly are new or close to it.  For under 5 bucks, I figured it's worth a shot.

If it turns out that they are the old game port type you can get a game port to USB adapter. They work great. I used the gameport style for two years with one until I took the plung and upgraded to all USB stuff.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: dunnrite on June 24, 2010, 04:35:40 PM
If it turns out that they are the old game port type you can get a game port to USB adapter. They work great. I used the gameport style for two years with one until I took the plung and upgraded to all USB stuff.

Ok, yea, it seems I jumped the gun as it does have a gameport.  I still got them with shipping for about $20 bucks, so I think I still got a pretty good deal.  I didn't even think about a gameport, I haven't seen one in a long time.

Would this adapter work?  I don't believe these pedals have the toe break, which would make it a 2 axis.

http://sewelldirect.com/USB-to-Gameport-Adapter-for-Joysticks-Controllers-and-Gamepads.asp?source=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cse&cvsfa=1306&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=53572d35393639 (http://sewelldirect.com/USB-to-Gameport-Adapter-for-Joysticks-Controllers-and-Gamepads.asp?source=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cse&cvsfa=1306&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=53572d35393639)

Oh well, at least I can see how I like the CH (not sure if I like the 8" or so apart idea), I may want the Saitek model anyway down the road.
 :salute
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 24, 2010, 04:43:36 PM
Ok, yea, it seems I jumped the gun as it does have a gameport.  I still got them with shipping for about $20 bucks, so I think I still got a pretty good deal.  I didn't even think about a gameport, I haven't seen one in a long time.

Would this adapter work?  I don't believe these pedals have the toe break, which would make it a 2 axis.

http://sewelldirect.com/USB-to-Gameport-Adapter-for-Joysticks-Controllers-and-Gamepads.asp?source=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cse&cvsfa=1306&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=53572d35393639 (http://sewelldirect.com/USB-to-Gameport-Adapter-for-Joysticks-Controllers-and-Gamepads.asp?source=froogle&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=cse&cvsfa=1306&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=53572d35393639)

Oh well, at least I can see how I like the CH (not sure if I like the 8" or so apart idea), I may want the Saitek model anyway down the road.
 :salute


The old analog CH Pro Pedals do have toe brakes but I don't think they'll be recognized in AH even with a USB gameport adaptor.  That was one of the drawbacks to the analog Pro Pedals, only a certain games that had support built in for the analog Pro Pedals were able to use the toe brakes.

There is a way though that may get the toe brakes to work in AH but it involves a little bit of wiring and electronic know how.  When I was at CH one of the guys modified a set of analog Pro Pedals for me so I could calibrate the toe brakes in Windows and use them in games.  He wired a button into the wire harness that connects to the toe brakes that would allow me to properly calibrate the pedals in Windows.  I then had to use a custom created 3 axis, 1 button joystick driver in Windows to get them to work.  Since it was required in Windows to press a button on the joystick to properly set the calibration, that was the reason for having a button wired into the pedals.

ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: dunnrite on June 24, 2010, 04:52:28 PM
I read that in one of the reviews about the calibration.  It was said that if you had an old joystick with the gameport, you could calibrate the pedals, and then when you have to hit a button to finish calibration, you could plug the old joystick in and hit a button.  Although, I don't see that working, as windows will know I unplugged the pedals.

This was really a temporary "give it a try" until I can afford the Saitek models.  I think I just blew 20 bucks  :cry 
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: SIK1 on June 24, 2010, 06:39:11 PM
You still got a decent deal. You just have to use an adapter to get the pedals too work,and you wont have toe brakes. No real biggie since you probably don't have toe brakes now.

The main thing is to get use to the pedals. Get familiar using them. Then when you need too you can upgrade.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: The Fugitive on June 24, 2010, 06:47:22 PM
ya what Sik said. That adapter will work fine. Its a pretty cheap set-up to see if you like pedals better than a twisty stick as well as if 8 inches is enough room.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: dunnrite on June 24, 2010, 07:05:06 PM
That's what I'm hoping for.  I'm just concerned that with no buttons, I won't be able to calibrate it with windows.  If calibration within windows is not necessary, then I'm golden.  I just have to buy an adapter.  I just don't want to spend the 15 + shipping for the adapter if it won't work.  How did you calibrate Fugitive?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Kazaa on June 24, 2010, 07:09:43 PM
Four years I used ASD for rudder. CH peds ftw.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: SIK1 on June 24, 2010, 08:14:26 PM
That's what I'm hoping for.  I'm just concerned that with no buttons, I won't be able to calibrate it with windows.  If calibration within windows is not necessary, then I'm golden.  I just have to buy an adapter.  I just don't want to spend the 15 + shipping for the adapter if it won't work.  How did you calibrate Fugitive?

I'm not sure why you think you need a button to calibrate in windows. If you do you can always use the return key on your keyboard.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 24, 2010, 08:30:28 PM
I'm not sure why you think you need a button to calibrate in windows. If you do you can always use the return key on your keyboard.

Because clicking on the "Next" button during the Window's calibration routine just skips you to the next calibration screen without saving the calibration of the previous screen.  To properly calibrate your stick in Windows, you needed to press a button on your joystick to save the calibration routine before moving on to the next calibration step.

As far as I know, Microsoft never changed it and it's still that way in XP but it might be different in Vista or W7.  However, most joystick manufacturers have been able to circumvent that by using their own calibration routines, like CH's in current version of Control Manager.

ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: The Fugitive on June 24, 2010, 09:09:33 PM
Thats how I did Ack, just clicked next each time and hit save at the end. Worked fine and never had a trouble with them.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 25, 2010, 01:23:15 PM
OK, I'm a little short on cash right now. Would I do better to get a comparatively cheap one, or shell out for a more expensive one?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: danny76 on June 25, 2010, 01:25:59 PM
But apparently enough to post.


ack-ack

just barely
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Tigger29 on June 25, 2010, 03:49:57 PM
OK, I'm a little short on cash right now. Would I do better to get a comparatively cheap one, or shell out for a more expensive one?

Expensive what?  Set of rudder pedals?  Just get whatever your budget allows.  Cheap ones should work just fine... just don't be surprised if the pot wears out prematurely or the mechanism doesn't last very long... but I would still think you'd at least get several months out of them...
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: lyric1 on June 25, 2010, 04:26:26 PM
After having pedals you won't want anything else. :aok
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 25, 2010, 04:42:17 PM
OK, I'm a little short on cash right now. Would I do better to get a comparatively cheap one, or shell out for a more expensive one?

You can always build your own.  It's not very hard, just need to be a little handy with tools and takes about 8 hours to build.  You'll need to get a USB game port adaptor so you can use them but for around $30, it's a good way to start using pedals and letting you save some cash to get some better ones down the line.

How To -- Make Your Own Rudder Pedals With Toebrakes (http://www.flightsim.com/main/howto/rudtoe.htm)


ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Nemisis on June 25, 2010, 06:13:50 PM
thanks for the link ack-ack.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Infidelz on June 27, 2010, 06:43:53 PM
I likes my saitek pedals.  I like them better than CH because they are spread the proper distance apart. I have had both types of Ch pedals. The Saiteks have a smoother action and take up less space. There is also an adjustable tension setting. I mounted them to an aluminum base I built for my pit. I fly barefoot so I put some Dr. Scholls Gels on them and hold em down with rubber bands, very comfortable.

Infidelz
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: danny76 on June 29, 2010, 08:29:26 AM
I likes my saitek pedals.  I like them better than CH because they are spread the proper distance apart. I have had both types of Ch pedals. The Saiteks have a smoother action and take up less space. There is also an adjustable tension setting. I mounted them to an aluminum base I built for my pit. I fly barefoot so I put some Dr. Scholls Gels on them and hold em down with rubber bands, very comfortable.

Infidelz

I'm not at all keen on Saitek pedals. although I don't think I could ever go back to twisty stick, the Saiteks have a particularly vague centre position and the return springs are weak. I often find myself with some input, thus sapping E. I've messed with scaling but I find this to be a difficult problem to solve.
Anyone know of a solution, or is this a duff set?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Infidelz on June 29, 2010, 05:49:06 PM
I'm not at all keen on Saitek pedals. although I don't think I could ever go back to twisty stick, the Saiteks have a particularly vague centre position and the return springs are weak. I often find myself with some input, thus sapping E. I've messed with scaling but I find this to be a difficult problem to solve.
Anyone know of a solution, or is this a duff set?


It is too bad about your pedals. There is no bias in the set I have. You could try to put in a dead zone, but that defeats the purpose of the thing and makes aiming difficult. Check your control panel and see if there is something wrong with them? If so perhaps they can be returned under 1 year warranty? The hall effect pedals that simpeds sells would fix your problem but break your wallet.

Infidelz
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: ebfd11 on June 30, 2010, 10:10:58 AM
Ok I have a question ... I don't know if you can do this but if you have a set of racing sim pedals, can those be used like rudder pedals?? Just a stupid question.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: 1Canukk on July 01, 2010, 11:27:35 AM
Ive been using the Saitek Pro Pedals.. Find them great.. more realistic and easier than a gas pedal setup found on others.. Ive been using them for over 3 yerars and really no issues here.. Joys stick well that's another  story everything been replace with Ch gear , but my pedals still keep on working... :salute
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ghastly on July 01, 2010, 12:42:08 PM
Ok I have a question ... I don't know if you can do this but if you have a set of racing sim pedals, can those be used like rudder pedals?? Just a stupid question.

Not generally, unless the pedals are switchable to rudder mode. This is because most car pedal mode uses a separate axis for each pedal, while for rudder mode, you need the left pedal to deviate a single axis to the left, while pressing the right would deviate it to the right.

<S>
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: 1701E on July 01, 2010, 10:25:34 PM
Ok I have a question ... I don't know if you can do this but if you have a set of racing sim pedals, can those be used like rudder pedals?? Just a stupid question.

Not generally, unless the pedals are switchable to rudder mode. This is because most car pedal mode uses a separate axis for each pedal, while for rudder mode, you need the left pedal to deviate a single axis to the left, while pressing the right would deviate it to the right.

<S>



Depending on the brand the answer is yes.  I have a Logitech Force Pro Wheel/Pedal set (going on 3.5-4 years) that I have been using as a rudder set for about 1.5 years now.  The things have taken more of a beating then I've ever heard of an electronic taking and still work like new (so simple design they never break!).  They come default as a single axis reported however there is an option in the Gaming software for "reported pedals as separate axis" (not sure on exact wording, not at that comp right now), but as a single axis by default they work perfectly for rudder in Aces High. :)


The main problem someone who wants true rudder pedals may encounter is that gas/brake pedals don't counter each other.  You can press both at the same time unlike real rudder that when one is depressed the other pedal counters by coming back at you (can't seem to think of the word for that).  For someone who just wants rudder pedals and doesn't care so much about that though the brake/gas works fine.
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: dunnrite on July 06, 2010, 07:37:57 PM
Ok, I got the pedals and the game port adapter, but when I plug it into the usb port, nothing happens.  I can't seem to find the pedals at all.  Not in game, or in windows7.  I had assumed that it would be a plug and play thing, but nope.  Any idea where I would go about calibrating in windows?
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 06, 2010, 07:44:27 PM
Ok, I got the pedals and the game port adapter, but when I plug it into the usb port, nothing happens.  I can't seem to find the pedals at all.  Not in game, or in windows7.  I had assumed that it would be a plug and play thing, but nope.  Any idea where I would go about calibrating in windows?

When you plug them in, you should see a Plug-N-Pray screen about finding a new USB device.  Afterwards, in the Game Controllers section in Windows, it should show the pedals as the setting you had selected on the adaptor, like a 2 axis, 2 button controller.

ack-ack
Title: Re: pedals
Post by: dunnrite on July 06, 2010, 07:48:44 PM
When I plug them in, I get no plug and play screen.  I did find the ch pedals in the devices, but I can't update or roll back the driver.