pedals

[guncrasher]

Yeah, it's a shame. 


ack-ack

yup vanity the favorite sin  .

semp

[Nemisis]

Sweet, now I can keep dodging shells and type out an urgent request for supps at the same time.

Anyone besides Ack-Ack have anything more than vauge information?

[Ghastly]

They allow you to much more precisely control the aircraft, and in many aircraft, a little bit of slippage due to not having the ball centered equal a whole lot of E-bleed.  Once you get used to them, you'll wonder how you got along without them.  Even a reasonably average pilot (like myself) gains significantly from the use of them.

I've only used 2 different brands.  I really loved my Simpeds, although I'm currently using the CH pedals.  I have an older set of gameport Simpeds without toe brakes, and when I switched from the modded Sidewinder 3D to a CH Rig it was just a lot easier to switch to CH than deal with trying to integrate the gameport version into the new XP rig - this was before the USB adapters were being made, and it would have required maintaining a "junk" joystick that was just one more piece of stuff to have in the way. I did buy a gameport to USB converter a while back, but I've gotten accustomed to the toe brakes on the CH and don't really want to give up that feature, so I've continued using the CH pedals rather than the Simpeds.  The new version with the toe brakes is ideally what I'd like to do - except that I've been averaging about 3 hours of flying a month and can't justify the expense. 

The CH Pedals are in my opinion the "weak link" in the CH line up.  They work reasonably well, but are very very closely spaced, and (compared to my Simpeds) are much harder to control with precision.  I did replace the centering spring with something much lighter, so that I could make precise movements around center more easily.

Other than these two,  I believe that Saitek makes pedels, and what little I've seen of them they look worth looking into (wide spaced, toe brakes) but I have no first hand experience with them.  I'm also not sure what Guillimot/Thrustmaster has available these days.

<S>

[guncrasher]

nemesis their fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

[Tigger29]

nemesis they're fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

GRAMMAR NAZI STRIKES AGAIN!

But seriously.. if you're not using rudders AT ALL, then you are seriously missing out.  I can't hardly control a plane without rudder control anymore, let alone aim or strafe, or dive bomb...

If you are currently using a TWISTY for rudder, and want to know how the pedals will help... well it's simple... since the pedals are separate, you won't accidentally engage unwanted rudder input while moving the stick.. and pedals are a lot more accurate.

As for transition time... some people pick it up immediately... some people take forever.. it's kind of like Track-IR.  Some people never get used to it.  I would say that if you've been using a twisty for a long, long time... then it'll take you awhile to get used to pedals.. but stick with it it's worth it.  If you weren't using rudder at all then you should pick it up fairly easily.

I used to have an X45 that had a rocker on the back of the throttle for rudder... which was nice but not accurate at all.  Transitioning from that to pedals was very easy, but I also have some real life piloting experience (not a lot, but enough... about a half-dozen takeoffs, 2 landings, and a few hours of cruising time in a Cessna 172).

I got one of the first Saitek rudder pedals which have a design flaw (they keep coming off track) and it's happened so much that they don't stay fixed anymore, which is a shame because they are very nice.  The ones you buy today have been corrected so this problem won't happen now.  I still can't complain though.. I got 2 1/2 years out of a 'defective' set, but until I can replace it, I'm stuck using the twisty on my X52 and having a heck of a time with it.  I may stick with level bombing and GV'ing for a while...

I hope this helps..

[danny76]

I've never understood why people have a hard time transitioning from a twisty stick to foot pedals.  I remember when I made the switch to from a MS Sidewinder twisty to a CH HOTAS with Pro Pedals and there wasn't any "re-learing to fly or dogfight" involved.  It wasn't a night and day type of thing, what was night and day for me was getting used to all the new buttons and a seperate throttle but not the pedals.  Maybe it was because I was already used to the pedals because of where I worked at the time.


ack-ack

Sorry. Was going to reply but failed to summon up the energy

[Ack-Ack]

Sorry. Was going to reply but failed to summon up the energy

But apparently enough to post.


ack-ack

[Nemisis]

OK, I've never really used flaps asside from adjusting a bomb run, used for hammerheads, and for landing. What do you USE them for exactly? I hear that they help turning, they will help you with with lining up for a shot, etc.

But HOW do you use them to that effect is what I need to know. I wasn't formaly trained to fly anything; I've self taught everything I know, asside from a few tank gunnery tricks compliments of Dr7.

[The Fugitive]

nemesis their fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

I get a a kick out of comments like this. They are often followed by comments like "I really suck in a fighter" and "I don't spend much time in fighters because I get shot down all the time".

Flying with out rudders and flaps is like playing basketball in flip-flops. Sure you can do it, but a 10 year old in a pair of sneakers is going to wipe the floor with you.

Ya it can make that big a difference.

[Nemisis]

I still work the flaps and throttle in combat, just not the rudder. I never learned how to do it, and what it DOES.

[Tigger29]

I still work the flaps and throttle in combat, just not the rudder. I never learned how to do it, and what it DOES.

It's pretty simple... there are three primary flight controls:

1> Elevators (pitch)... this pitches the plane upwards or downwards
2> Ailerons (bank/roll)... this rolls the plane clockwise or counter-clockwise
3> Rudders (yaw)... this turns the plane left or right.. kind of like how a car turns

What flaps do is create turbulence which helps the plane fly more controllable at slower speeds, and can help to 'pull up' with more force (and could help with a last-ditch effort to increase the turn rate during a dogfight)... BUT at the cost of increased drag on the plane which means you'll lose E more quickly with flaps deployed which is why they are so useful for landing.  They allow you to maintain control at the slower speeds required for landing, and also help you to slow down enough for touch-down.

Rudder control is  actually used to turn the airplane on the ground (however some models have wheels that can turn left/right like a car as well).  Flying without rudder control, while possible, makes it difficult to maintain fine control of the aircraft... such as lining up for landing, and pointing your nose in the proper place to get a good shot off on an enemy, or on a strat.

Although not really modeled in this game, it is not wise to fly in real life without rudder control, as turns require a combination of all three surfaces to keep the g-force fluctuations to a minimum, to make a more comfortable flying experience for passengers.  A rudder only turn would force everyone in the plane to to left or to the right (like a hard turn in a car).  Moving only the ailerons would cause everyone to fall to the left or to the right, and if you were to make a turn using only elevators and ailerons, everyone would be pushed down into their seats which while fun for some people, isn't exactly comfortable for everyone.  Adding a bit of rudder into a turn not only makes the turn faster, but it also helps to stabilize the forces felt by the passengers.

Here's a pretty good 'novice' article about it all at wikipedia HERE

[Ack-Ack]

What do you USE them for exactly? I hear that they help turning, they will help you with with lining up for a shot, etc.

Coordinated turns, aid in rolling, side slipping (skidding), speed control and when a maneuver calls for some rudder input.

nemesis their fun to have if you get bored and want to learn to fly a little different.  not a must have, but they definitely improve the turning a bit.

semp

Completely wrong.  No other controller can provide as accurate rudder input as a set of rudder pedals can and frankly, for a flight sim it's pretty high on the 'must have category' in order to get the fullest out of your plane.  Sure, you can get by with a twisty stick and some do quite well within one but no one using a twisty stick will ever be as precise in their rudder input as someone using a set of rudder pedals and go beyond improving one's turning a 'bit'.  A person using a twisty stick will always be at a disadvantage over someone using a set of rudder pedals.


ack-ack

[guncrasher]

I get a a kick out of comments like this. They are often followed by comments like "I really suck in a fighter" and "I don't spend much time in fighters because I get shot down all the time".

Flying with out rudders and flaps is like playing basketball in flip-flops. Sure you can do it, but a 10 year old in a pair of sneakers is going to wipe the floor with you.

Ya it can make that big a difference.

I have never flown without using rudders or flaps.  And fugitive, there's been more than a few times when you couldnt wipe the floor with mea and you have tried.  and by the way I really suck in fighter, you know why?  I love furballing too much to worry about score or skill as you put it.  I play for fun and that's all the skill I want  

Coordinated turns, aid in rolling, side slipping (skidding), speed control and when a maneuver calls for some rudder input.

Completely wrong.  No other controller can provide as accurate rudder input as a set of rudder pedals can and frankly, for a flight sim it's pretty high on the 'must have category' in order to get the fullest out of your plane.  Sure, you can get by with a twisty stick and some do quite well within one but no one using a twisty stick will ever be as precise in their rudder input as someone using a set of rudder pedals and go beyond improving one's turning a 'bit'.  A person using a twisty stick will always be at a disadvantage over someone using a set of rudder pedals.


ack-ack

but they're not required to play the game.  actually some really good sticks here dont use pedals.  Using pedals wont actually improve your skill.  You can have the best toys, but still suck at the game.  but that's not what he was asking, was it.

semp

[Ack-Ack]

but they're not required to play the game.  actually some really good sticks here dont use pedals.  Using pedals wont actually improve your skill.  You can have the best toys, but still suck at the game.  but that's not what he was asking, was it.

semp

Yes, there are good sticks that don't use pedals but hate to tell you, regardless of skill they'll always be at a disadvantage over someone that uses pedals because the pedals are naturally more precise and accurate in their movements than a twisty stick rudder.  Yes, it will improve one's flying skills, especially in using basic flight maneuvers but it won't necessarily improve their fighting/ACM skills.


ack-ack

[The Fugitive]

I have never flown without using rudders or flaps.  And fugitive, there's been more than a few times when you couldnt wipe the floor with mea and you have tried.  and by the way I really suck in fighter, you know why?  I love furballing too much to worry about score or skill as you put it.  I play for fun and that's all the skill I want  


but they're not required to play the game.  actually some really good sticks here dont use pedals.  Using pedals wont actually improve your skill.  You can have the best toys, but still suck at the game.  but that's not what he was asking, was it.

semp

It may be my old beer soaked brain, but I don't remember flying against you. I couldn't care less if you can beat me or not. For me its all about the fight, not the win or loss. My comment about "wiping the floor" wasn't directed at you ( a little defensive on your part don't you think   ) The point of my comment is if a person wants to be a better cartoon pilot rudders are almost must have. You telling people that they are not that big a deal is incorrect information and all I was doing was pointing that out.

So go climb back into your beginners plane and go have some fun in all the furballs that will be popping up now.