Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Pudgie on June 26, 2010, 04:25:44 PM
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Hi Folks,
I am happy to announce that my old trusty ViewSonic 21PS monitor is finally showing signs of it's age.
It's starting to fail!
:D
So in the meantime I have pulled my 470 from my box (just to be on the safe side) & am in the market for a good 24" LCD monitor for gaming. Am using my "old" 9800 GTX+ vid card so that I can still use this thing for the moment.
Am looking for recommendations here.
All input will be greatly appreciated!
:salute
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Price range is always nice to know.
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$0-$400
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After reading on these I think I'll be looking for an IPS monitor so the price will go up.
I think I can handle around $800.00.
:)
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Holy waste of money, Batman! Unless IPS is something extraordinary that I'm not aware of... Do you need this for professional reasons?
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Looking at an HP ZR24w 5ms S-IPS panel LCD monitor
$529.95 on Newegg.
Anybody using 1 of these?
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I'm happy as can be with a Samsung 23" that cost me 200$ and that was before the christmas sales hit.
Certainly no "need" to spend more than 250$ for a good 23 - 34" monitor with reasonable refresh rates.
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Looking at an HP ZR24w 5ms S-IPS panel LCD monitor
$529.95 on Newegg.
Anybody using 1 of these?
For about the same money you can have an 32" lcd hdtv that will double as a monitor.
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Looking at an HP ZR24w 5ms S-IPS panel LCD monitor
$529.95 on Newegg.
Anybody using 1 of these?
You need to understand that IPS panel LCD monitors are not built for gaming in mind but rather CAD work. Their input lag is normally unaceptable unless they have a game mode of sorts. (anything below 14ms input lag is acceptable, do not confuse this with pixel response time) Be aware that manufactures do not tell you the input lag of their products so you'll have to find an online review which tests for it.
The new backlit LED monitors are just starting to pour of production and I would defo recommend them for sure. I have just a cheap backlit LED BenQ G2420HDBL and the image quality for a fast TN panel is rather amazing, more then I'll ever need.
If you have enough GPU power to push 120FPS then I would recommend you look for a monitor which has a refresh rate to match (120hz) over an LED backlit panel. Sorry, your still using a 9800 GTX GPU so please ignore this paragraph.
Here's what I'm currently looking at. http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1263457115 and I can't wait to see the review, fingers cross it's good.
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Some websites to surf to help you choose.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/19.htm
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6
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Looking at an HP ZR24w 5ms S-IPS panel LCD monitor
$529.95 on Newegg.
Anybody using 1 of these?
I have a ZR22w sitting in its box waiting to be unpacked, I'll let you know how it performs with AH when i get a chance to set it up later this week. iirc the ZR24w has slightly better response than the 22, so if the 22 is ok you should be fine with the 24. :)
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Damn dude...buy a cheaper one and buy me one too with the money you saved! :)
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I have a samsung syncmaster t220 which I have been happy with, has 2ms. For what I paid for this, now you can get a 24 inch and still save money.
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You need to understand that IPS panel LCD monitors are not built for gaming in mind but rather CAD work. Their input lag is normally unaceptable unless they have a game mode of sorts. (anything below 14ms input lag is acceptable, do not confuse this with pixel response time) Be aware that manufactures do not tell you the input lag of their products so you'll have to find an online review which tests for it.
The new backlit LED monitors are just starting to pour of production and I would defo recommend them for sure. I have just a cheap backlit LED BenQ G2420HDBL and the image quality for a fast TN panel is rather amazing, more then I'll ever need.
If you have enough GPU power to push 120FPS then I would recommend you look for a monitor which has a refresh rate to match (120hz) over an LED backlit panel. Sorry, your still using a 9800 GTX GPU so please ignore this paragraph.
Here's what I'm currently looking at. http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1263457115 and I can't wait to see the review, fingers cross it's good.
I have an EVGA GTX 470 SC vid card. I took it out of my box & put in this EVGA 9800 GTX+ vid card to use to look for a new monitor in the meantime (just in case this CRT fails while I'm doing this, it's my "sacrificial lamb" so to speak).
Thanks for mentioning the 120Hz spec. I believe my GTX 470 SC can handle that w/o issue.
I'll add that to my specs list.
:D :salute
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I've never heard of a monitor taking out a video card, but with a 470 I don't blame you for being cautious.
Seriously though.. save yourself a big chuck of change and don't worry about IPS displays. They are nice if you use them for photo editing, etc where you need the colors to be absolutely perfect... but they aren't designed for gaming. Some people will make it sound like normal LCD monitors are HORRIBLE with colors, but that's really not the case at all. The very slight color variances don't even begin to take away from how great the picture is otherwise.
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Also, I would try to buy a monitor with 2ms pixel responce time. I can tell the difference between 2ms and 5m when playing AH, it's clear as day.
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Please keep in mind the response timing (2ms or 5ms) is another exaggerated figure. So you could in fact have had a 19ms panel advertised as 5ms then bought a 10ms panel advertised as 2ms.
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Please keep in mind the response timing (2ms or 5ms) is another exaggerated figure. So you could in fact have had a 19ms panel advertised as 5ms then bought a 10ms panel advertised as 2ms.
Yep if the response time was really 2ms or 5ms, the human eye couldn't tell the difference anymore. Unfortunately monitors vary in actual response time and input lag both of which manufacturers try to either hide or cheat on.
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Please keep in mind the response timing (2ms or 5ms) is another exaggerated figure. So you could in fact have had a 19ms panel advertised as 5ms then bought a 10ms panel advertised as 2ms.
The above is true, just make sure the monitor model doesn't have a ghosting issue by reading reviews.
You can use the sites I linked previously to check for the real pixel response times.
If the panel has a poor pixel response time, the enemies plane's text is really blurred during fast montion. On other games it's a lot harder to tell.
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Bought this in February and have enjoyed it immensely.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236059 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236059)
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I like to be able to test the LCDs i have here properly but I dont have any CRTs left alive to time them against :(
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Looking at a HP W2710m 27" 2.5ms LCD monitor.
I'm finding that the true 120Hz LCD's are very rare & hard to find so I'm backing off that spec (I didn't notice any units on Newegg that listed true 120Hz). The largest unit I can fit in place of my old ViewSonic 21PS CRT is a 27" LCD (measured w/ tape measure) so 27" it will be. After checking into the specs on the HP ZR24W 24" S-IPS LCD monitor on the HP site I have seen the light & have backed off IPS tech as I will be strictly gaming & surfing on this monitor & according to the specs sheet from HP the response time is 7ms-16ms. No bueno. I DO however like the asthetics of HP LCD monitors as they indeed are good lookers visually.
Direct from HP it's $349.95 w/ free shipping. Puts pricing inline w/ similar products off Newegg (Newegg don't seem to carry HP LCD's).
The HP W2709m 27" 3ms LCD monitor has a lot of favorable reviews (looking on the HP site you'd kinda figure this to be the case) & is identical to the W2710m in all aspects except the response time.
Gonna go hit Best Buy in AM to get a visual & price comparison since they carry & sell HP LCD monitors.
:salute
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I would buy the one with the faster response time.
When I bought my first LCD monitor many years ago it was a 19" Viewsonic with something like an 8ms response time. I brought it home, hooked it up, logged into AH and the ghosting was so bad I returned it and bought a 19" Viewsonic CRT.
After that experience I had nothing good to say about LCD's until a couple of years ago when I built my new machine and bought a 22" LG LCD with a 2ms response time. I've loved it.
BTW, 60 mhz is about as fast a refresh rate as you're going to find in an LCD but it's totally smooth.
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The Acer GD245HQ is currently the best 120hz gaming monitor you can buy.
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-7352-38.html
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Acer has had so many Quality Control issues in the past, they weren't even an option for me back in Feb. I know of two close friends (and do not even game) who bought Acer's for this past Xmas and moved on to other brands, due to pixels dying like flies in an oven.
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824116441
Looking at this one as well. Pricing/shipping is comparable to the HP model. This 1 has faster listed response time, built-in speakers (lame) & 4-port USB hub (can use that).
Is active matrix/tft panel better/worse than a tn panel?
The name ViewSonic carries a lot of weight w/ me due to the service that I have enjoyed over the last 10 yrs from this 21PS 21" CRT monitor that I bought USED off EBay back in 8-'00 for $152.99 + 30.00 S & H & I.
But I AM trying to be objective here & am open to looking at other options.........within reason of course.
That Acer model you showed Kazaa is pretty new indeed (Newegg doesn't list it).
The more I research this the more I'm finding out how far these LCD's have progressed over the last few years & how far I am out of touch w/ the technologies. Too much focus on the box end of computing.
:D :salute
I would buy the one with the faster response time.
When I bought my first LCD monitor many years ago it was a 19" Viewsonic with something like an 8ms response time. I brought it home, hooked it up, logged into AH and the ghosting was so bad I returned it and bought a 19" Viewsonic CRT.
After that experience I had nothing good to say about LCD's until a couple of years ago when I built my new machine and bought a 22" LG LCD with a 2ms response time. I've loved it.
BTW, 60 mhz is about as fast a refresh rate as you're going to find in an LCD but it's totally smooth.
I believe that I'm gonna relate to your sentiments by default BE. :lol
On the 60Hz issue at this time I concur that you're right but that ain't gonna be the case within the next 6 mos.
DVI connect is the preferred choice, right?
:D
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Yes, you will want to use DVI although it seems most monitors don't come with a DVI cable so you'll probably have to buy that seperately.
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Yes, you will want to use DVI although it seems most monitors don't come with a DVI cable so you'll probably have to buy that seperately.
Well that would really hack me off especially when checking the packaging lists on both of these monitors it explicitly states that the DVI cables ARE included w/ the monitors.
Now the question of how long the cables are would be a valid concern.
:salute
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Yes, you will want to use DVI although it seems most monitors don't come with a DVI cable so you'll probably have to buy that seperately.
All four LCD monitors that I've purchased in my life included a DVI cable. I wouldn't be too worried about that.
Also keep in mind, some monitors use a HDMI input instead of a DVI... in which case they probably won't come with a cable. If your Video Card does not have an HDMI output, you can purchase a HDMI to DVI adapter cable for a few bucks (they both output the same signals... just different type of plug... and DVI doesn't carry audio.. in which case you would need to run a sound cable from the sound output to the monitor if you plan on using the built-in speakers which usually suck anyway).
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Well after my trip to Best Buy today I ordered the following monitor:
HP 2710m 27" HD 2.5ms Widescreen LCD monitor from the HP Online Store for $349.95/free shipping.
Best Buy had the HP 2310m 23" HD 3ms Widescreen LCD monitor in stock & on display (exact same monitor feature-wise as the 2710m w/ the exception of response time & size).
It was very apparent after making the rounds that this unit was a winner. It had the best picture by far over the others, the best color over the others & was certainly the most snappy & crisp when displaying very fast motions--couldn't detect any ghosting or blurring while watching a hummingbird demo. I didn't detect any ghosting on the others but I did see some blurring & interleaving (lines along alternate pixel rows) at the hummingbird's wing edges.
By contrast they had a HP 2388h 23" HD 5ms Widescreen LCD monitor set up on a HP i7 box running some flight sim. You could definately see the ghosting of the upper section of the plane cockpit--was real faint but there--otherwise it was doing OK w/ no blurring of the scenes or objects while in motion. Yes I would have to agree that the difference between 3ms to 5ms is "noticeable" to the human eye. To be fair the HP 2388h is a "business-optimized" monitor & was not meant for games. Compared w/ Gateway, AOC, BenQ, eMachines, Samsung, Asus in-store & the HP's were the top dogs-just all around better (the HP's had the fastest response times--the best the others could do was 5ms).
I'll give a report on it when it gets here & I put my EVGA GTX 470 SC vid card back in to push it.
Thanks for the replies folks!
:aok :salute
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Yes I would have to agree that the difference between 3ms to 5ms is "noticeable" to the human eye.
Except the 5ms that the manufacturer reports has often been measured to be 15-19ms. They cheat on the specs and that's why making a statement '3 ms is like day and nite different from 5ms' is just not valid untill we're talking about real world measured refreshes.
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Except the 5ms that the manufacturer reports has often been measured to be 15-19ms. They cheat on the specs and that's why making a statement '3 ms is like day and nite different from 5ms' is just not valid untill we're talking about real world measured refreshes.
I'll grant you that--as with anything manufactured the varibles will make up the total sum. But the advertised info does give some indication of what a device can/will do. The basic truth of the design is still valid.
Would you dispute that a 3ms response time IS NOT faster than a 5ms response time, given all else is equal?
I would like to believe that your position is not based on the basics of design but on the varibles surrounding the basic design, no? The reality of manufacturing is that 2 of the exact same design will not even measure out exactly the same........................s o the question for us as humans is how far to the right do you want to push the "decimal point" of real-world measurement to satisfy one's definition of "real" & quantifiable?
Not pushing an argument here--am really trying to stop any from starting.
This very statement that I typed is the very reason why I went to a retailer who carries & sells the units that I was looking at to buy to see them up front & in operation.
I don't need to see the EXACT same unit, the same unit family is close enough for me (same features, design parameters, etc w/ the differences only in size & response times-the actual unit I'm buying has a FASTER response time so I expect the same quality as the example if not better).
So in the end of things the truth of this statement is really in the eyes of the beholder, no?
:salute
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no it really doesnt. manufacturers are trying to sell us stuff, so they lie to us. or in some cases make mistakes. some are better than others. sometimes.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,271054.0.html
Pudgie, I can't quite figure out what you're saying or trying to say, but I will agree with you that you need to see it to know what you're getting. RtHolmes is spot on - the only way the monitor I bought (see the post) was 8 ms was via creative marketing. I have an ancient Sony LCD left over from a work upgrade rated at 25 ms that's actually faster.
You definitely can't buy sight unseen by specs any more.
<S>
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The HP 2710m came in today.
Opened the box & this baby is going to take some time for me to get used to........................... .it's BIG!
Put my EVGA GTX 470 SC vid card back in my box & set it all up.
Loaded up 257.21 WHQL drivers for vid card & drivers for the new monitor.
This monitor has exceeded all expectations that I had!
No dead pixels, 1 darn sharp picture w/ colors that just pop out at you! I am running this monitor in it's Auto Mode setting (auto sets itself according to room lighting). This thing is just beautiful to see.
I've been missing out!
I see what you mean, BE!
Fired up AHII & went up. Absolutely NO ghosting, blurring of any kind regardless of how fast the scenes are moving.
The 2.5ms response time is definately living up to it's advertised capabilities! Even at 60Hz.
If anyone is looking for a LCD monitor for gaming I would recommend to consider this model.
It comes in 3 sizes:
23", 25" & 27" (I got the 27" version)
1 happy camper now!!!!!!!!!!!
:x :D :salute
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just set my ZR22 up too, first impression very nice, noticeably better colour than anything Ive used before (using SilkyPix for RAW photo stuff.)
anyone know if theres something I can test ghosting etc with without using AH? dont have GPU installed yet :(
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Holmes, to test the effect of ghosting i would suggest you use one of the many online or downloadable apps.
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/testsoftware/ghosting-test.html
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ty this is exactly what I was looking for :)
http://www.prad.de/download/pixperan_english.zip (http://www.prad.de/download/pixperan_english.zip)
... of course theres not much point testing it with onchip graphcs though, will do it when I get 9800 installed again.