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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: viking73 on June 30, 2010, 04:35:33 AM

Title: trouble with ENY
Post by: viking73 on June 30, 2010, 04:35:33 AM
The dreaded ENY calculations should be done a different way. Of course I think the ENY issue is bogus anyway but these two screenshots show the problem.

When there is a low number of people the ENY factor is easily jacked up. In this example there are only 9 more than the lowest but there is an ENY of 10.
(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t234/firejack007/eny1.jpg)


However in this example, there are 60 more players than the lowest yet the ENY is only 8. 6 times more than the first example but less ENY.

(http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t234/firejack007/eny2.jpg)
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: Lusche on June 30, 2010, 04:42:37 AM
Relative numbers, baby, relative...

only "9 players more" sounds so little... but 19 to 10 is something completely different than for example 109 to 100. In one case you have almost double the number of players, in the other less than 10% more.

So in your screens, it's

42.2% to 22.2% - ENY 10.3
42.6% to 27.0% - ENY 8.6


Makes sense to me. :)


Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: Kev367th on June 30, 2010, 04:50:29 AM
Relative numbers, baby, relative...

only "9 players more" sounds so little... but 19 to 10 is something completely different than for example 109 to 100. In one case you have almost double the number of players, in the other less than 10% more.

So in your screens, it's

42.2% to 22.2% - ENY 10.3
42.6% to 27.0% - ENY 8.6


Makes sense to me. :)




Dam, you just got in ahead of me.  ;)

Yup its relativity
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 30, 2010, 06:06:32 AM
Dam, you just got in ahead of me.  ;)

Yup its relativity

Or some other 'ty' ending .. :D
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: uptown on June 30, 2010, 06:46:43 AM
I didn't think I've ever see the day when a guy from the 80th has issues with the ENY. :huh
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: 321BAR on June 30, 2010, 07:00:41 AM
the only time i have eny problems is when im in a P51D instead of my zekes...
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: froger on July 01, 2010, 01:03:00 AM
as you know,
lots of great planes to fly when ENY is jacked.

froger
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: guncrasher on July 01, 2010, 01:51:51 AM
Relative numbers, baby, relative...

only "9 players more" sounds so little... but 19 to 10 is something completely different than for example 109 to 100. In one case you have almost double the number of players, in the other less than 10% more.

So in your screens, it's

42.2% to 22.2% - ENY 10.3
42.6% to 27.0% - ENY 8.6


Makes sense to me. :)




Percentages dont make sense with such low numbers.  to make it simple lets say there's only two countries and one has 20 the other has 10.  so lets say 5 (25%) from the high player country attack a base.  the low number country ups 3 players (33% to simplify).  3 players can easily hold back 5 and I bet that 1 player can hold back all 5.  since most fights will be 1v1 or 2v1 if that.  and even if it is 3v1 it will be hard to kill town and sneak in a goon.  It can be done but the fights will mostly be about furballing since the numbers are really low on both countries.

now does eny really make sense with such low numbers?  Not really, this is why people hate eny.   It would make a difference if it was 100 against 50 since there would be more attackers and fights would now be 5v1 or 6v1 since defenders would not really  up at same time and would only be picked one at a time.




semp
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: WMLute on July 01, 2010, 02:24:11 AM
If one player is holding off 5 then the five really need to get some training.
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: BrownBaron on July 01, 2010, 05:06:21 AM
If one player is holding off 5 then the five really need to get some training.

This.

The ENY is fine. Relative numbers, this is relatively smal compared to this, blah blah blah blah.
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: Lusche on July 01, 2010, 06:21:08 AM
Percentages dont make sense with such low numbers.  

They do, that's the beauty of math. 10-5 is outnumbering the enemy by 100%, and so is 100-50.
And with the rest of your posting you are just awkwardly trying to construct something. I could do the same thing for arenas with high total player count ;)

Yesterday (see other thread) there were 5 guys in EW fighting against 1 to grab his bases. Guess I should have told him with so small total numbers, they didn't really outnumber him  :lol


now does eny really make sense with such low numbers?  Not really, this is why people hate eny.

No it's not. Almost all complains about ENY come from LW arenas not having low numbers.
They just hate it because it sometimes forces them to consider flying an eny 10 or (behold!) eny 20 plane. They hate it, because they only notice ENY when it hits them, never when it's applied against the enemy. They hate it, because they can't figure out the difference between relative and absolute...
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: Kev367th on July 01, 2010, 12:55:07 PM
I'm guessing it has changed, but -
Wasn't there a min number in the arenas before ENY became active?
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: Lusche on July 01, 2010, 01:03:47 PM
I'm guessing it has changed, but -
Wasn't there a min number in the arenas before ENY became active?

Yes, there is... I just don't know the exact number right now, but in his 1st screenshot, there are 45 players total, that's a lot higher than the minimum (I think it's like 10 players or so)
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: Sincraft on July 01, 2010, 08:50:51 PM
oh I thought this was going to be one of those:

-Why is it that when the bish outnumber, their eny ratio appears less than the knights or the rooks when they outnumber?

Glad it isn't, I believe that topic is taboo!
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: viking73 on July 04, 2010, 02:39:11 AM
Relative numbers, baby, relative...

only "9 players more" sounds so little... but 19 to 10 is something completely different than for example 109 to 100. In one case you have almost double the number of players, in the other less than 10% more.

So in your screens, it's

42.2% to 22.2% - ENY 10.3
42.6% to 27.0% - ENY 8.6


Makes sense to me. :)




Math wise ya, I understand. My main point. Your using percentages. I'm saying 60 is a bunch of extra player no matter how many are on and 9 is little no matter how many are on. If i'm on with 5 others, 9 more isn't bad cause it's a big map (usually). But 60 is a problem.
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: oTRALFZo on July 04, 2010, 07:06:01 AM
Math wise ya, I understand. My main point. Your using percentages. I'm saying 60 is a bunch of extra player no matter how many are on and 9 is little no matter how many are on. If i'm on with 5 others, 9 more isn't bad cause it's a big map (usually). But 60 is a problem.
Big map or not. The MA mentality is those 9 will group up together to attack you 5. Now your fighting an almost 2:1 ratio. Lets level out the playing field. But Ive seen the MAs. Those 9 guys will see you 5 online then "spread" out to 9 different undefended bases with hopes that the odds are they can get at least 4 base captures  :x
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on July 04, 2010, 08:27:15 AM
Math wise ya, I understand. My main point. Your using percentages. I'm saying 60 is a bunch of extra player no matter how many are on and 9 is little no matter how many are on. If i'm on with 5 others, 9 more isn't bad cause it's a big map (usually). But 60 is a problem.

So next time you fight someone 2 vs 1 you won't complain since 1 more player makes little to no difference.
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: guncrasher on July 04, 2010, 08:53:17 AM
I don't worry about 2v1.  But then again thread wasn't about that.  It is about having eny with such low numbers.

Semp
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: The Fugitive on July 04, 2010, 09:28:06 AM
I don't worry about 2v1.  But then again thread wasn't about that.  It is about having eny with such low numbers.

Semp

but that IS the point. Most people would rather fight 2 P40s than fight 2 Spit XVI's
Title: Re: trouble with ENY
Post by: oTRALFZo on July 04, 2010, 09:36:57 AM
I don't worry about 2v1.  But then again thread wasn't about that.  It is about having eny with such low numbers.

Semp
I completly understand your point Semp. ENY in LWB or LWO when they have such low #s will tend to balance out in a short time. ( I usualy find more bish logging in after sat morning cartoons are over :x)
If you dont feel like switching sides, just be patient with it. Otherwise, join the low #s side and feast in the carnage.