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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: maus92 on June 30, 2010, 06:51:29 PM

Title: The scourge of 262's
Post by: maus92 on June 30, 2010, 06:51:29 PM
A well flown 262's can kill at will and remain virtually untouchable, while the conventional aircraft provide the cannon fodder.  Sometimes it seems that some pilots are simply building their scores at the expense of other's enjoyment of the game.  Is it time to give them their own arena?  Or make them even more expensive in the MA?  Or make each successive 262 more expensive?

And is the fuel burn/capacity correct?  They seem to have an unusually long endurance, particularly for a jet.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Ardy123 on June 30, 2010, 06:52:45 PM
hashahahahhahah last night was fluff'n awesome!!!!!



 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Delirium on June 30, 2010, 06:52:55 PM
Someone beat you to it.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291724.0.html
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Slash27 on June 30, 2010, 06:54:01 PM
Since when are 262's such a problem?
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: E25280 on June 30, 2010, 06:59:21 PM
A well flown 262's can kill at will and remain virtually untouchable, which is why they are heavily perked.
What's the problem again?   :headscratch:
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: uptown on June 30, 2010, 07:00:37 PM
maus92 meet Grizz......Grizz meet maus92  :old:
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: lyric1 on June 30, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
With most long term players having tens of thousands of points. What number would you like too perk the 262 as too make it harder for the 262 guys to get one?
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: VonMessa on June 30, 2010, 07:02:50 PM
Since when are 262's such a problem?

Since a bunch of guys with perks to burn that know how to fly them went on a killing spree last night   :rofl
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: maus92 on June 30, 2010, 07:03:40 PM
maus92 meet Grizz......Grizz meet maus92  :old:

Yup, met him numerous times to my detriment.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Spikes on June 30, 2010, 07:03:48 PM
hashahahahhahah last night was fluffluff'n awesome!!!!!



 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Too right! :)
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BiPoLaR on June 30, 2010, 07:10:54 PM
hashahahahhahah last night was fluffluff'n awesome!!!!!



 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Fairy fluffers?
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: grumpy37 on June 30, 2010, 07:13:09 PM
Are 262's really that hard to fly?  I prefer to turn fight so its not a plane I would really want to fly, BnZ just doesnt do it for me.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BiPoLaR on June 30, 2010, 07:18:02 PM
Are 262's really that hard to fly?  I prefer to turn fight so its not a plane I would really want to fly, BnZ just doesnt do it for me.
ummmm 262s arent just for BnZ. they can turn. At least ill turn fight mine.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: grizz441 on June 30, 2010, 07:18:28 PM
Are 262's really that hard to fly?  I prefer to turn fight so its not a plane I would really want to fly, BnZ just doesnt do it for me.

Fly?  No.  You could take one up, fly around for 30 minutes and then land, no problem.  Kill?  Yes.  Until you figure it out.  It takes a lot of experience and a fundamental understanding of crossing shot theory.   :)

As for 262s being a problem?  I hardly think so.  I know that the best 262 pilots in the game save their use for the biggest baddest hordes they can find.  Granted sometimes you roll one, the fight changes within 10 minutes and you are left with something less than desirable but I rarely see anyone misusing them.  Best horde busters in the game.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: grumpy37 on June 30, 2010, 07:22:44 PM
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen.  Explain "crossing shot theory". or does that give up the big secret.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Lusche on June 30, 2010, 07:25:33 PM
On the average, less than 1% of all kills by planes in the LW arenas are made by the 262. And with the notable exception of literally a handful of players, most 262 pilots do only grab one when it's really cheap (= their country outnumbered big time)
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Slash27 on June 30, 2010, 07:27:05 PM
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen.  Explain "crossing shot theory". or does that give up the big secret.

Bad guy crosses in front, bang he's dead. :aok
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: uptown on June 30, 2010, 07:29:18 PM
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen.  Explain "crossing shot theory". or does that give up the big secret.
Oh they might turn, but it'll be a ways out. I wish I could get a 262 to turn with me more often. Grizz is a good shot and if you watch his films, he flings the nose to throw a tater at you.  I'm starting to notice that about the 109 sticks.  :noid

Ardy made a good shot on me the other night just like Grizz would of done. Something is a foot with the tater spud gun thingy.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BiPoLaR on June 30, 2010, 07:29:31 PM
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen.  Explain "crossing shot theory". or does that give up the big secret.
Its only perks man. Ill turn fight with almost anything in a 262. I could care less these days. Grizz and I use to do it all the time when winging.

Tell ya what. Go offline with one. Get it going about 200 throw full flaps and sling the bellybutton end around. Thats the old m00t bellybutton slide move.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BiPoLaR on June 30, 2010, 07:31:10 PM
Oh they might turn, but it'll be a ways out. I wish I could get a 262 to turn with me more often. Grizz is a good shot and if you watch his films, he flings the nose to throw a tater at you.  I'm starting to notice that about the 109 sticks.  :noid
Taters = all about angles.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Lusche on June 30, 2010, 07:44:52 PM
And is the fuel burn/capacity correct? 

Yes, it is. I went through this in some other thread some time ago
MA (FB 2.0) 262 endurance is only about 20 minutes on the deck at full throttle, but you can extend endurance a lot by climbing to altitude and throttling back.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: TonyJoey on June 30, 2010, 07:53:54 PM
262s are fun once in a while to burn excess perks. For the tater-challenged, like myself, sneaking in NOE, popping up to blast someone taking off, and rinsing and repeating is an easy way for kills. Landing is the tough part... :uhoh
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: TnDep on June 30, 2010, 08:29:10 PM
Quote
author=grumpy37 link=topic=291927.msg3716040#msg3716040 date=1277943764]
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen.  Explain "crossing shot theory". or does that give up the big secret.

Crossing Shot-

Of course this is my definition but I believe others will agree

First how far is the con in front of you how much speed does he have?
When he starts to turn, you turn that direction and pull hard getting ahead of him by lead pursuit to a position where you know a approx. 200 yard crossing shot will be available.  After your in this position you have to do several things:

1. Again estimate there speed
2. Put your piper in front of where the prop will be or as close as possible
3. Fire before the plane arrives figuring the speed of the bullet making it arrive at the same time the plane does


Harder then you think it is, Grizz is one of the best at this just try it

I've been working on this but it's hard for a old man to learn new tricks  :D
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 30, 2010, 08:34:53 PM
As long as you're good at deflection and quick snap shots, the cannon on the ME 262 isn't hard to get kills with.


ack-ack
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: kvuo75 on June 30, 2010, 09:30:27 PM
my preferred 262 method is to dive on a set of lancs from 5-10k alt advantage from lanc's 11 oclock, throttle off, realize im now about the lanc's 9 oclock, still too fast, yank it,  get 600 yds realize the spuds are missing (already half gone), yank it even more, and collide with a drone.   :aok

If I got one lanc, I'm lucky  :rofl






Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: 321BAR on June 30, 2010, 09:35:30 PM
262s are fun once in a while to burn excess perks. For the tater-challenged, like myself, sneaking in NOE, popping up to blast someone taking off, and rinsing and repeating is an easy way for kills. Landing is the tough part... :uhoh
pull off a low alt furball while you're in the 262 :aok there was 4 allies and 6 enemies, i rolling scissored a p51D at one time in order to overtake him when he got on my 6... he was a bad pilot though, he shoulda had me
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: pluck on June 30, 2010, 09:47:48 PM
262's are easily dispatched with superior number prowress.  You should always fly a 262 when you want to vulch.  That is when they are most effective.  It is a highly overated plane, and in no way should be used to fend off the horde because of it's vulnerabilites.  If you fly the 262, you are a score umm "potato?" 
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: TnDep on June 30, 2010, 09:55:27 PM
My opinion heres what it boils down to:

Only a handful can fly the 262 and get 10+ kills almost everytime making the perks worth the flight.  This is itself does 2 things

1.Makes people complain about the ones who fly it so well or

2. Make people want to take the plane out of the set or give them there own arena

 :rofl

Well it's the truth and I'm one that keeps on practicing with them.  I'm normally good for about 3 kills right now in one and miss the other 10 shots but you'll never see me complain about a 262 because it takes skill to fly well.  Just get use to it or practice to get better in the plane.  The perks of about 200 on average is plenty for the perks that it costs.  Because the ones who fly it well isn't going to lose many of them anyway so if your upping the perks on the plane the only people you are hurting is the ones complaining to begin with - so this thread is pointless!
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: grumpy37 on June 30, 2010, 10:30:06 PM
Ok so here is a question then.....  If the 262 cost half as much as it does now considering by what  has been said that only very few can really use its potential would it make a difference in game play?
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: TW9 on June 30, 2010, 11:14:23 PM


Well it's the truth and I'm one that keeps on practicing with them.  I'm normally good for about 3 kills right now in one and miss the other 10 shots but you'll never see me complain about a 262 because it takes skill to fly well.  Just get use to it or practice to get better in the plane.  The perks of about 200 on average is plenty for the perks that it costs.  Because the ones who fly it well isn't going to lose many of them anyway so if your upping the perks on the plane the only people you are hurting is the ones complaining to begin with - so this thread is pointless!

Are you shooting all guns at once? I just use 2 at a time. 4 is overkill unless attacking bombers. Typically I'll run out of fuel well before im out of ammo. Unless of course it's a good run :D
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BaldEagl on June 30, 2010, 11:18:48 PM
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen. 

That's how I always lose mine.

I got into a turn fight with a Zeke one day.  Went round and round for several minutes.  Thankfully I was able to extend out after being beat up but I crashed landing and only got a ditch.   :frown:

I just get too tempted to try it.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: whiteman on June 30, 2010, 11:43:15 PM
Ive never seen anyone "turn fight" with a 262, not saying it doesnt happen.

I use to turn them in fights but not for long against prop planes, had a few good rolling fights against other 262's that last a good 3-4 mins. I spend my perks on the F4U-4 for when i want to have a good time and -1C to just go blow some stuff up.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: froger on July 01, 2010, 12:49:46 AM
Since a bunch of guys with perks to burn that know how to fly them went on a killing spree last night   :rofl


This was not me :cry
   I have fun in the jet and more good luck than bad but the deuce is like a driver at the first tee,
if ya don;t use it you will never get to know it.

I like burning perks from time to time  :banana:



ps...... Nice shot today Von     :salute


froger
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: VonMessa on July 01, 2010, 04:44:47 AM

This was not me :cry
   I have fun in the jet and more good luck than bad but the deuce is like a driver at the first tee,
if ya don;t use it you will never get to know it.

I like burning perks from time to time  :banana:



ps...... Nice shot today Von     :salute


froger

 :D

 :salute
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BrownBaron on July 01, 2010, 04:51:51 AM
ZELVA pilots...mission accomplished.  :)
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: TnDep on July 01, 2010, 05:34:49 AM
Are you shooting all guns at once? I just use 2 at a time. 4 is overkill unless attacking bombers. Typically I'll run out of fuel well before im out of ammo. Unless of course it's a good run :D

It's just setting up for the shot for me TW got to work on throttle management in that plane for 3 victories I spray like a machine gun lol <S>
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BnZs on July 01, 2010, 08:18:53 AM
Actually most people can remain untouchable in 262s (IF they don't stupidly get slow, get HO'd, get killed by ack/flak, break the wings off, fly the thing into the ground, get shot down by buff's laser guns o'death, or die attempting to land...big IFs) but will find it exceedingly hard to get alot of kills in because of the speed difference, cannon ballistics, and poor forward views. If anything the 262 is overpriced in relation to what it can do...Tempest is a much better choice for building a score.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: BrownBaron on July 01, 2010, 08:46:47 AM
Actually most people can remain untouchable in 262s (IF they don't stupidly get slow, get HO'd, get killed by ack/flak, break the wings off, fly the thing into the ground, get shot down by buff's laser guns o'death, or die attempting to land...big IFs) but will find it exceedingly hard to get alot of kills in because of the speed difference, cannon ballistics, and poor forward views. If anything the 262 is overpriced in relation to what it can do...Tempest is a much better choice for building a score.

The speed gap is rather quick to get used to, and compared to my ride of choice the cannon ballistics and visibility are ten times easier to work with. If one flys like they're actually sitting in the aircraft, they won't be so easily persuaded to try to turn with that zero after their initial pass fails.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Megalodon on July 01, 2010, 08:50:23 AM
With most long term players having tens of thousands of points. What number would you like too perk the 262 as too make it harder for the 262 guys to get one?
well at a 1000pts  I could still crash 25 of them so how bout 2000pts  :D
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Delirium on July 01, 2010, 09:00:07 AM
Most of us old timers have so many perks, we can fly 262s for several camps full time and not run out of perks.

I always wanted perks to reset on your monthly subscription date, this way perk rides would have more value and everyone would be on a different calendar.

Heck, it might even encourage people to fly for the side with the lowest numbers to earn perks.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: TnDep on July 01, 2010, 10:55:51 AM
Most of us old timers have so many perks, we can fly 262s for several camps full time and not run out of perks.

I always wanted perks to reset on your monthly subscription date, this way perk rides would have more value and everyone would be on a different calendar.

Heck, it might even encourage people to fly for the side with the lowest numbers to earn perks.

+1
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Lusche on July 01, 2010, 10:58:30 AM
I always wanted perks to reset on your monthly subscription date,

Which puts the occasional gamers at a disadvantage. If you only manage to play a few hours per tour, you will never be able to up a 262 or even a Tempest
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Wiley on July 01, 2010, 11:39:57 AM
262's I think are in the bottom third of planes I worry about defending against for the most part, unless I see that it's one of the top-shelf guys flying it.  They're just not that hard to avoid.  The annoying thing with them is you do have to be keeping an eye on them pretty much all the time to stay out of their way.  I think perhaps their greatest value is as a 'scarecrow' to occupy the other side's pilots attention while your prop planes fight them.

I also like to go after them if I've got alt.  One of my more memorable sorties involved me in a 109F and was trying to run down a 262 that was working the crowd defending the base I was over.  Talk about the wrong tool for the job, but I kept cutting the corners on him and getting hits here and there, but I could never get a decisive burst to hurt him.  I just really enjoyed the working out where he was going to be and putting my slow little plane there.

They can be annoying at times, but I don't think they really break the game.  With that said, seeing them up in squad strength was not something I was in the mood for the other night, so I found my fun elsewhere.  It did amuse me though as a 'first time I've seen that.' kind of thing.

Wiley.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Lusche on July 01, 2010, 11:49:29 AM
I think perhaps their greatest value is as a 'scarecrow' to occupy the other side's pilots attention while your prop planes fight them.

They work great as a distraction. Not only because every enemy in the area is trying to evade you but also because there's nothing that's making players so greedy as holding them a me 262 carrot under their nose ;)

A few times I have broken the enemy's cap of a friendly base not by shooting them all down, but by just flying around and making them follow me... keeping just enough speed to make them think they have a chance...dragging the vulchers away from the runway like the Pied Piper of Hamelin :)
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Delirium on July 01, 2010, 12:10:59 PM
Which puts the occasional gamers at a disadvantage. If you only manage to play a few hours per tour, you will never be able to up a 262 or even a Tempest

That is the nature of online gaming... if you only spend an hour online every 2 weeks, your ability to furball will be diminished and it can even affect your ability to GV.

Right now, the perk system is almost useless unless ENY is elevated. Some of us are approaching 50k perks, I wouldn't doubt some of have crossed that line already.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: grizz441 on July 01, 2010, 12:15:24 PM
That is the nature of online gaming... if you only spend an hour online every 2 weeks, your ability to furball will be diminished and it can even affect your ability to GV.

Right now, the perk system is almost useless unless ENY is elevated. Some of us are approaching 50k perks, I wouldn't doubt some of have crossed that line already.

How about hitech just putting in a 1337 style of text that you can buy for your name for like 50k perkies.
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Lusche on July 01, 2010, 12:19:24 PM
Right now, the perk system is almost useless unless ENY is elevated. Some of us are approaching 50k perks, I wouldn't doubt some of have crossed that line already.

It's my firm belief that the 50k or even 10k guys are a very small minority... and they do have so many perks because they aren't really interested in flying perk planes at all.

And many, if not most that do fly 262's roll them only when they are cheap...very few "dare" to fly them at 300perks.


(Just for the record, I have only 1.2k fighter perks right now)


For the new or occasional gamer, getting enough perks to fly a 262 one is a goal... one that can keep then occupied (and paying :D) for many, many tours
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Soulyss on July 01, 2010, 12:26:10 PM
That is the nature of online gaming... if you only spend an hour online every 2 weeks, your ability to furball will be diminished and it can even affect your ability to GV.

Right now, the perk system is almost useless unless ENY is elevated. Some of us are approaching 50k perks, I wouldn't doubt some of have crossed that line already.

It's my firm belief that the 50k or even 10k guys are a very small minority... and they do have so many perks because they aren't really interested in flying perk planes at all.

And many, if not most that do fly 262's roll them only when they are cheap...very few "dare" to fly them at 300perks.


(Just for the record, I have only 1.2k fighter perks right now)


For the new or occasional gamer, getting enough perks to fly a 262 one is a goal... one that can keep then occupied (and paying :D) for many, many tours

I find myself in a strange position because I find Del's idea somewhat interesting but I'm also exactly the type of player that the snail is describing.  I have just shy of 60K in perks but that's mostly just from literally years and years of flying and I rarely take up a perk plane.  Frankly I'm more of a danger to myself in a 262 than anyone around me. 
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Glen69 on July 01, 2010, 12:30:35 PM
Your safe from my 262, all the perk disappeared along with my areana connection  :furious
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: 321BAR on July 01, 2010, 12:32:29 PM
Most of us old timers have so many perks, we can fly 262s for several camps full time and not run out of perks.

I always wanted perks to reset on your monthly subscription date, this way perk rides would have more value and everyone would be on a different calendar.

Heck, it might even encourage people to fly for the side with the lowest numbers to earn perks.
+1 like tndep said...
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: whipster22 on July 01, 2010, 03:57:35 PM
with all this whineing it makes you want a kikka (Orange blossom) and a J7W :devil
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: The Fugitive on July 01, 2010, 04:16:19 PM
Turn fighting a 262 (http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/baa96afa0c_2.13MB). Just a little fun one night  :D
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: SunBat on July 01, 2010, 04:51:05 PM
A well flown 262's can kill at will and remain virtually untouchable, while the conventional aircraft provide the cannon fodder.  Sometimes it seems that some pilots are simply building their scores at the expense of other's enjoyment of the game.  Is it time to give them their own arena?  Or make them even more expensive in the MA?  Or make each successive 262 more expensive?

And is the fuel burn/capacity correct?  They seem to have an unusually long endurance, particularly for a jet.

This post reminds me of this cartoon:

(http://doesitallmatter.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/must-be-a-democrat.jpg)

If I am over-the-line here please accept my apology, Skuzzy, and delete my post.  It's the spirit of the matter that I am trying to convey not any particular affiliation...
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Zoney on July 01, 2010, 05:05:47 PM
Sittin in tower I hear/see a whole slew of 262's rolling so I grab one and we go, couple of my squaddies grabbed one and went too.

What a ball, even if I was the "scourge", for once I was not the "scorgee".  I have never seen this many jets ever and it was really fun.  Got 3 kills, giggling on landing I overshoot the runway, had to slam the throttle on full and go around again.

Thanks for the fun, sorry if you were on the receiving end of this.  I would love to try fighting against this "scourge" next time maybe.
 :rock
Title: Re: The scourge of 262's
Post by: Guppy35 on July 02, 2010, 12:44:53 AM
I find myself in a strange position because I find Del's idea somewhat interesting but I'm also exactly the type of player that the snail is describing.  I have just shy of 60K in perks but that's mostly just from literally years and years of flying and I rarely take up a perk plane.  Frankly I'm more of a danger to myself in a 262 than anyone around me. 

In all honesty I don't know how many perk points I have, and I really don't care. 

There are guys who can work miracles in 262s and do things the rest of us can't.  That being said, I do somewhat understand the frustration as all it takes is a couple of well flown 262s and everyone is spending their time watching them and doing nothing else.

I'd rather the skilled horde busters did it in birds that got the hordes wanting to learn to fly that way, instead of just pounding them into oblivion because they can.