Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 999000 on July 10, 2010, 10:44:24 AM
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Mess with the best, you die like the rest.
Subject: PILOT STORY (But Not What You Think) Kill'em and Eat'em This came from a gent who runs a 2000 acre corn farm up around Barron , Wi ., not far from Oshkosh . He used to fly F-4Es and F-16s for the Guard and participated in the first Gulf War.
His story:
I went out to plant corn for a bit to finish a field before tomorrow> morning and witnessed The Great Battle. A golden eagle - big, with about a six foot wingspan - flew right in front of the tractor. It was being chased by three crows that were continually dive bombing it and pecking at it. The crows do this because the eagles rob their nests when they find them.
At any rate, the eagle banked hard right in one evasive maneuver, then landed in the field about 100 feet from the tractor. This eagle
stood about 3 feet tall. The crows all landed too, and took up positions around the eagle at 120 degrees apart, but kept their distance at about 20 feet from the big bird. The eagle would take a couple steps towards one of the crows and they'd hop backwards and forward to keep their distance. Then the reinforcement showed up.
I happened to spot the eagle's mate hurtling down out of the sky at what appeared to be approximately Mach 1.5. Just before impact the eagle on the ground took flight, (obviously a coordinated tactic;
probably pre-briefed) and the three crows which were watching the grounded eagle, also took flight thinking they were going to get in some more pecking on the big bird.
The first crow being targeted by the diving eagle never stood a snowball's chance in hell. There was a mid-air explosion of black feathers and that crow was done. The diving eagle then banked hard left in what had to be a 9G climbing turn, using the energy it had accumulated in the dive, and hit crow #2 less than two seconds later.
Another crow dead.
The grounded eagle, which was now airborne and had an altitude advantage on the remaining crow, which was streaking eastward in full burner, made a short dive then banked hard right when the escaping crow tried to evade the hit. It didn't work - crow #3 bit the dust at about 20 feet AGL.
This aerial battle was better than any air show I've been to, including the war birds show at Oshkosh . The two eagles ripped the crows apart and ate them on the ground, and as I got closer and closer working my way across the field, I passed within 20 feet of one of them as it ate its catch. It stopped and looked at me as I went by and you could see in the look of that bird that it knew who's Boss Of The Sky. What a beautiful bird!
I loved it. Not only did they kill their enemy, they ate them. One of the best Fighter Pilot stories I've seen in a long time... There
are no noble wars-- Only noble warriors
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999000 <S>
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:aok
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Never read that anywhere, Great story sir :aok :aok
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picture of shawks relative
(http://www.mulletjunky.com/webimages/squirrelpelt.jpg)
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Good story 999000, thanks for sharing
:salute
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That is eagles for you, nothing but scavengers. Great story 999000
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They had "mullet day" at the Pittsburgh Zoo this past week.
All people coiffed with a mullet got free admission.
The winner of "Best Mullet" got a free haircut.
I thought of Shawk of course when I read that in the paper.
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All hail Tino Martino ... and his royal bro's.
Tokenjo
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Those gangtard crows got picked something fierce. :lol
Great story, thanks for sharing. :aok
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Love to watch a big raptor work magic in the air. Goldens are huge birds. We have a female that frequents a shooting range nearby. All the noise scares up the rodents at the range. She will come in at low altitude while we are shooting and snatch up a prairie dog or two. Always better than an airshow and much less noise.
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That is eagles for you, nothing but scavengers. Great story 999000
Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Scavenger 2. An animal, such as a bird or insect, that feeds on dead or decaying matter.
Great story.
:salute Eagles
:salute Crows
wrongway
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That is eagles for you, nothing but scavengers. Great story 999000
If you eat meat from the grocery store, or at a restaurant, you're a scavenger.
Bald eagles get much of their food through scavenging, goldens don't scavenge quite as much. Regardless, killing the crows, and then eating them is not an example of scavenging.
Considering where this story supposedly took place, I'd be pretty skeptical as far as believing these were goldens. Immature balds are much more common to that area at that time of year, and can be quite difficult to differentiate from goldens, especially to a "normal" person. Goldens do visit the state but are generally very scarce, and hang around the southwest portion of the state near the Mississippi river, and are generally just laying over during the winter months. A friend of mine was actively working with the DNR to trap and radio tag goldens in Wisconsin this winter.
Bald eagles, even though they're notorious for scavenging and stealing food from other birds, are still capable of some surprising feats when it comes to hunting. I've watched them hunt ducks, and was initially shocked at how efficient they can be as predators.
Golden eagles are just plain awesome predators. They're capable of hunting some seriously large quarry, and it's especially amazing when you realize the big ones (females) are only running 12-14 pounds.
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If you eat meat from the grocery store, or at a restaurant, you're a scavenger.
Bald eagles get much of their food through scavenging, goldens don't scavenge quite as much. Regardless, killing the crows, and then eating them is not an example of scavenging.
Considering where this story supposedly took place, I'd be pretty skeptical as far as believing these were goldens. Immature balds are much more common to that area at that time of year, and can be quite difficult to differentiate from goldens, especially to a "normal" person. Goldens do visit the state but are generally very scarce, and hang around the southwest portion of the state near the Mississippi river, and are generally just laying over during the winter months. A friend of mine was actively working with the DNR to trap and radio tag goldens in Wisconsin this winter.
Bald eagles, even though they're notorious for scavenging and stealing food from other birds, are still capable of some surprising feats when it comes to hunting. I've watched them hunt ducks, and was initially shocked at how efficient they can be as predators.
Golden eagles are just plain awesome predators. They're capable of hunting some seriously large quarry, and it's especially amazing when you realize the big ones (females) are only running 12-14 pounds.
There are some great video of a Golden Eagle snatching a young mountain goat, climes up and released it to its death.
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In 1979 I worked on the river in La Crosse, I would hardly ever see a bald eagle. The species has really made a come back. In the early ninties I really noticed how the numbers I could count in spring and fall went up.
Couple years ago, I was going by a part of the river, the ice was breaking up, spring of course, and must of counted between 25 to 30 in one area.
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Beautiful, beautiful story; well told, 999.
I'm a bit of a bird watcher here. When the chipmunk moves too slow, the big bird snags it.
I view this game as more avian than 'cartoon'. ('Cartoon': what a shallow, unimaginative term to describe Aces High!)
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In 1979 I worked on the river in La Crosse, I would hardly ever see a bald eagle. The species has really made a come back. In the early ninties I really noticed how the numbers I could count in spring and fall went up.
Couple years ago, I was going by a part of the river, the ice was breaking up, spring of course, and must of counted between 25 to 30 in one area.
Yea, they've really made a come-back!
Last fall I spent about 4 hours in a blind on a ridge overlooking the river. It was a pretty good day for migrating, and the birds were using the lift generated along the ridge as they moved to the south. In those few hours we saw over 80 redtails (which is what we were really looking for), several coopers and sharp-shinned hawks, and many bald eagles. We actually got kind of bored with the eagles, and quit counting them when we hit 300 (it's like a conveyor belt of birds moving from north to south along the ridges). We were really hoping to see a golden, but only saw adult and immature balds. It would have been neat to see a few peregrines too, but we didn't. I've actually seen three peregrines in the Appleton/Oshkosh area during fall migration.
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(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/8.jpg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWaosOaURfU
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great story 99 :aok :salute
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did u say mach 1.5 eagles! damm thing coulda takin out an airliner, an not by goin into a engine but by simply beasting through the fuselage and it would probable survive.
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mach 1.5 is just to describe it went really fast.
no bird can fly or dive that fast.
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LOL! and my wifes name is Robin, you don't wanna mess with her either!
We have a few redtails living near the house here also. A Few times I've seen em land in the back yard with about 20 robins in tow. Usually with one of em in it's talons. The other 20 are trying desperately to free the victim to no avail. :aok
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Great stories all! :O
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sounds like shawk against the jokers, hmmm i wonder whod the bait be> :huh
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The second eagle was definately a relative of Shawk - use a squaddie as bait, swoop in, get a couple of picks. The only difference is eagle #2 actually left one for eagle #1. :D
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(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm228/texashogleg/8.jpg)
That's awesome :lol
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If you eat meat from the grocery store, or at a restaurant, you're a scavenger.
Bald eagles get much of their food through scavenging, goldens don't scavenge quite as much. Regardless, killing the crows, and then eating them is not an example of scavenging.
technically... no. you are not a scavenger. The food we buy at the store or eat at a restaurant is not discarded. we buy it therefore it was meant to be given to us to eat (a baby bird does not scavenge out of a mother bird, the mother feeds them. <- could be used as an example to back my statement up). if we were eating out of someone's garbage can, then we'd be scavengers. The fact that our food was meant to be eaten whether we killed it or not means we are not scavengers at all. <S>
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technically... no. you are not a scavenger. The food we buy at the store or eat at a restaurant is not discarded. we buy it therefore it was meant to be given to us to eat (a baby bird does not scavenge out of a mother bird, the mother feeds them. <- could be used as an example to back my statement up). if we were eating out of someone's garbage can, then we'd be scavengers. The fact that our food was meant to be eaten whether we killed it or not means we are not scavengers at all. <S>
We'll argue about anything around here won't we?
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Watched a bald eagle recently fly near our house with a baby crow in its claws....quite alive too.
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We'll argue about anything around here won't we?
Heck yea!
It could be worse though... We could be arguing about HOing, or ganging, or NOEing, or furballing, or tool-shedding, or...
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technically... no. you are not a scavenger. The food we buy at the store or eat at a restaurant is not discarded. we buy it therefore it was meant to be given to us to eat (a baby bird does not scavenge out of a mother bird, the mother feeds them. <- could be used as an example to back my statement up). if we were eating out of someone's garbage can, then we'd be scavengers. The fact that our food was meant to be eaten whether we killed it or not means we are not scavengers at all. <S>
"Technically" your definition doesn't really hold up very well either.
"Discarded" doesn't play into it at all... Scavengers commonly steal food from other organisms. They're scavenging, but the organic material hasn't been "discarded".
"Meant to be given to us to eat" doesn't really fit either... A scavenger transports animal matter to feed to it's relatives or offspring. Since the food item was procured through scavenging, the other animals that eat from it are still scavenging, aren't they? Even though the food item was "meant to be given to them to eat". If not scavenging, how would this be described?
I agree, the baby bird isn't scavenging from it's mother. It's being provided for. But it's certainly not predating, either. What if the mother bird scavenged the meal?
A predator can be defined as "An organism that lives by preying on other organisms." To prey on other organisms can be defined as "To hunt, catch, or eat as prey: Owls prey on mice." Or "To seize as prey; to take for food by violence; to seize and devour."
Prey can be defined as "An animal hunted or caught for food", or "A hunted animal; prey", or "Hunted animals considered as a group; game."
Where would our eating of domestic animals come in? Certainly not in a predator/prey relationship... We don't hunt cows or pigs. We don't catch cows or pigs. We actually shy away from violently killing these animals, and try to make it non-violent...
In defining anything, there are a lot of "can be defined" arguments. Different people define similar things differently.
Some definitions I found for scavenger don't hold water either (IMO)... "An animal, such as a bird or insect, that feeds on dead or decaying matter." Heck, almost all the animals I eat are dead, even if I killed them myself. By that definition, I'm a scavenger... And, if I have leftovers, they'll be in the refrigerator for a few days and even though they may have started the decaying process, they'll still be fit to eat...
Another is "Scavenging, or necrophagy, is a carnivorous feeding behaviour in which a predator consumes corpses or carrion that were not killed to be eaten by the predator or others of its species." An eagle kills a fish. Another eagle steals the fish from the first, and eats it. Is it scavenging? Does it matter what the intent of the first eagle was (whether or not it intended the fish to be eaten)? What if the first eagle picked the fish up off of the ice while a fisherman had his back turned? Because they're the same species of eagle, can they be scavenging at all? What if the fisherman didn't intend the fish to be eaten (maybe to have it mounted, use it as bait, fertilize his garden, or play a trick on his neighbor). Is it even possible for a human to scavenge from another human (by this definition), since they're the same species? Even if the food was discarded? Keep in mind, if it was discarded, it's a pretty safe bet that it wasn't meant to be eaten...
When you grocery shop, you're frequenting areas known to be commonly have meat left there that was killed by someone or something else. Maybe it was killed as food for you, maybe it was killed as a strategy to gain money. Maybe it died "early" so wasn't killed at all, but still deemed "edible" (at least as long as someone else is gonna eat it! LOL!). If this isn't scavenging, what is it? It certainly isn't predatory behavior... As a matter of fact, if grocery shoppers were presented with a live animal in the grocery store, how many would take the opportunity to act in a predatory manner?
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well then you could also say that the human race evolved in a path that led to us being the hunter and scavenger :lol its a touchy subject. and this thread got hijacked fast! :D
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Couldn't have been related to Shawk. The story clearly states that the crows were wheels up.
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:aok
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well then you could also say that the human race evolved in a path that led to us being the hunter and scavenger :lol its a touchy subject. and this thread got hijacked fast! :D
The hijack aspect is there I suppose, but then again, I think it pertains to the original post. I think the predator/scavenger aspect plays a role. In theory anyway, the predator/prey relationship would probably be responsible for what supposedly transpired.
Since the original post was essentially just a story, there's not a whole lot to do with it. We just take it as it is, agree with it, or disagree with it.
Personally, I find lots of reasons to doubt it's truth. I've seen bald eagles hunt waterfowl, and I've seen lots of birds of prey interact with other birds, including crows. I have no doubt that in the correct situation, an eagle could catch a crow. Then again, in most situations, the crow is pretty dang safe.
In the story, I can see the first kill as being quite possible. The second much less so. The third, quite unlikely. Why would the eagles kill all three crows?
Not wanting to get too "confrontational", and not having been there, I won't go too much further.
My familiarity with birds of prey may be making it hard for me to be able to simply accept it "as-is".
Neat story though.
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Yea, they've really made a come-back!
Last fall I spent about 4 hours in a blind on a ridge overlooking the river. It was a pretty good day for migrating, and the birds were using the lift generated along the ridge as they moved to the south. In those few hours we saw over 80 redtails (which is what we were really looking for), several coopers and sharp-shinned hawks, and many bald eagles. We actually got kind of bored with the eagles, and quit counting them when we hit 300 (it's like a conveyor belt of birds moving from north to south along the ridges). We were really hoping to see a golden, but only saw adult and immature balds. It would have been neat to see a few peregrines too, but we didn't. I've actually seen three peregrines in the Appleton/Oshkosh area during fall migration.
Several times while out hunting ducks I have seen peregrines chasing whole flocks of Scaup. (diver ducks)
Just as the peregrine was about to grab one the duck would plunge straight down into the water with a big splash. The peregrine would shift over to the next one & on & on it went. I never knew if he caught one or not but it was pretty cool to see.
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Every summer my bro n i we'd go up river at our fishcamp n watch a bald eagle at work. the momma or daddy wud hover about 1000ft above the water/river and dive straight down into the river and come back out with a chum salmon :cool: . now mtnman u sound like u know scavenging pretty good, try that for scavenging :aok
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I refuse to chew on a bishop after killing him :)