Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bustr on July 12, 2010, 04:42:43 PM
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Have any of you noticed in all of this communities conversations about poor game play\conduct and large groups, that a single concept is identified repeatedly? This point is always reached then lamented as the good old days, just before the conversation jumps off into the morass of howto manipulate the game to control human nature.
Dunbar's number is a theoretical cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships.
The Rule of 150.
These are relationships in which an individual knows who each person is, and how each person relates to every other person. Proponents assert that numbers larger than this generally require more restrictive rules, laws, and enforced norms to maintain a stable, cohesive group. No precise value has been proposed for Dunbar's number, but a commonly cited approximation is 150.
Small groups of players will all know each other, feel like a common community and compete as freindly rivals for each others respect. Once you pass Dunbar's number, then new groups form with no motivation to respectfully interact with the community as a whole. Them versus Us becomes the interactive norm. The proliferation of Squads and the rise of The Super Squads. The vile language and attempts to dehumanise each other over ch200. The increased introduction of Moderator structures and privlege bans. Groups using loopholes in the game to disrupt normal game flow. The combination of this will be overwhelming to new players and cause them to view the game not as a community of like minded enthusiists to becomes freinds with. But, more likely as a chaotic realm in which to seek as much imediate reward as possible by any means before being towered. Or, to leave somewhere in the first two weeks.
FSO is one bright light in this because of the top down command structure and a large scale common goal. It works because of it's resemblence to the finals in the World Soccer Cup. In the real world the militairy is able to control large groups by using combined small group associations with a top down strict command structure.
1.) The strife will escalate as an arena population exceeds 150.
2.) Squads will form and want to compete against other groups and squads by the nature of close knit tribal communities and the need to BELONG.
3.) Them versus Us is seductive because you no longer see your opponents as human as yourself, which is a gateway to poor conduct.
4.) Bad conduct, vile language, and frequent attempts to game the game will be the norm past Dunbar's number.
5.) Groups like squads are naturaly self moderating under Dunbars number. A Super Group of groups in an arena will not moderate ITSelf and requires outside Moderation for good conduct.
6.) FSO works brilliently because it is about two large communities competeing against each other for a common goal inside of a contextual framework and time limit.
Left to our own devices, as Dunbar's number is exceeded, we eventualy become the worst of ourselves without ever more Draconian Moderation. How do we apply the success of FSO's ability to have two large groups interact and be so well behaved together? Well defined goals and objectives? Greater rewards for greater efforts? Being ejected for the night instead of loosing VOX and text privleges? HiTech introducing new updates and toys only passifys us for as SHORT as the novelty lasts. Bad game play is due to bad conduct.
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3.) Them versus Us is seductive because you no longer see your opponents as human as yourself, which is a gateway to poor conduct.
Raising oneself up by putting someone else down is a delusion. Dehumanizing people is all the rage. "Baby seals," "ilks," "your kind," etc., are all over the forums.
We all could do better to just enjoy the game and forget the insults.
I concede that there is also a need for people to toughen up with regards to the harsh give and take, myself included in this group.
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interesting principle, I always understood it to be 200 whether its a company (max effieciency) or a community (social cohesion.)
supports my idea that 450-600 is about the ideal for a single 3-country arena.
then again "The rule of 200" would have a different meaning here in AH :D
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4.) Bad conduct, vile language, and frequent attempts to game the game will be the norm past Dunbar's number.
5.) Groups like squads are naturaly self moderating under Dunbars number. A Super Group of groups in an arena will not moderate ITSelf and requires outside Moderation for good conduct.
I see #4 come from small groups/squads..and even SINGLE people with NO squad affiliation
I see#5 some "As I think you are implying here,BIG squads" moderate themselves very well.
I see each respective side: rook,knight,bish AS ONE big SQUAD working together..
Are you saying that a cap of 150 in any arena will be the BEST for this game?
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surely that means 150 per country - my communication with the other 2 sides is limited to bullets and the odd <S>
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The company that created Gortex has a company policy that no business unit will be any larger than 120 persons. When a unit grows past 120 a new unit is formed. As units get larger they divide into small internal political cliques who work at odds to the other cliques reducing the units ability to be effective and the companies bottom line. You have higher rates of sick leave, HR interventions and issues related to worker dissatisfaction. Management is less efective, builds empires, interferes with processes, scores low in employee satisfaction surveys and cuts into the companies bottom line.
Dunbars number is the observation that human beings are hardwired to identify with smaller groups 148-150 being about the max. Once you quit identifying with a group the tendancy is to feel displaced, anxious, angry or depressed. Then you either form your own group\clique inside of the company, seek out an empire builder to join, act out, under perform, transfer to another unit, quit or get fired. In the mean time you loose and the company looses.
This can be controlled with super large groups functioning together. But it takes a strong centralised authority with every one conditioned to play their part along with real and emediate consiquences for noncompliance. The militairy or large corporations can do this. It does not work in the MA very well letting us all run around trusting us to be on our Honor.
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I remember something similar from an anthropology class a loooong time ago.
Interesting stuff and I somewhat think it holds true for AcesHigh.
I would take a guess that 250 ish is "optimal" for an arena in this game.
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yeah I got 200 from some microeconomics class. point is that should apply to each country, not each arena. the countries are competing with each other, cooperating within each side.
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The Super Group of Groups is the total population of the arena. Groups like a squad internaly will moderate themselves by their nature up to a different tipping point for each squad. As the arena population exceedes Dunbars number, the frequency of discord increases. And then more suceptable individuals and groups across countries feed into the discord because we are human. A Super Group of 300 seems to be HiTech's tollerance for discord.
I used to beleive 150 per country would meet the definition of Dunbars number in the MA. Channel 200 makes the total arena population Dunbars number. Eliminate the cross country channels, cross country PM and perhaps 150 per country will be the number. So long as every disgruntled, greifing prone and generaly needing to whine on ch200 players won't give up cross country communication. As the Super Group passes 150, the discord will grow in proportion.
A compromise could be that ch200, cross country 200's comunication and cross country PM can only take place and be seen while in the tower other than .S <Player ID>.
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ok if goretex realise they have a competitor do they reduce the size of their business units to 60? another competitor enters the market, do they reduce their business unit to 40? etc...
a village of 150 discovers another village an hours walk away. does social cohesion suddenly break down simply because a few of the villagers make the hours trek to the next village once a week to trade?
I tune 200 maybe 10mins per tour, some people always have it tuned, some never. the availability of ch200 and pms does not make the total arena population dunbars group size. 150-200 per country allows a sense of community and most importantly allows useful and productive communication and interaction (this is the key point of dunbars hypothesis). more than that and it breaks down.
the forum provides a way for players who never interact in the arenas to interact (people fly at different times, most like the LWMA, some prefer the other MAs, the DA, scenarios, snapshot etc.) If you extend the group beyond those who fly and fight together, by extension we should limit the total number of AH players to 150...
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yea.I dont think channel 200 is in any way a proper representation of what goes on in the individual sides,or the whole arena for that matter.
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Because we need to communicate as part of being human and it just feels good to send some kind of a message to an advisary. Use the outlined comprimise from my last post then flesh out the .S command to some small number of concepts like we use emoticons in these posts. .:furious .. :huh ..:) ..:devil ..:x...and so on to the traditional .S<player ID>..... :salute
you enter Shows as white text
.S <ID> r for [rats or dernit] <ID>
.S <ID> m for [missed me] <ID>
.S <ID> i for [I'll be back] <ID>
.S <ID> e for [EEEEEk] <ID>
.S <ID> ts for [talk to me in tower soon] <ID>
.S <ID> ys for [yes will talk soon] <ID>
.S <ID> d for [you want to DA?] <ID>
.S <ID> th for [thank you but no] <ID>
.S <ID> y for [yes lets DA] <ID>
Something where HiTech controls the cross country saluting, insulting, and bantor while we are the most vulnerable to getting pissed off during combat. Maybe leave the AvA, WW1 and DA with ch200 cross countries.
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PLEASE!!!! no more . commands...
And there is some really good chat that goes on in 200 as well..dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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got to say on the occassions I do more than a .s and type gf etc on ch200, only get a response 10% of the time. suggests to me that only 10% of players tune it...
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got to say on the occassions I do more than a .s and type gf etc on ch200, only get a response 10% of the time. suggests to me that only 10% of players tune it...
I'd say your shy about 80%
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really? I'd say about half my squaddies tune it, and most of em have been around a while.
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really? I'd say about half my squaddies tune it, and most of em have been around a while.
Ya, I'm sure it's a lot closer tp 90% than it is 10%. Most of the people I know tune it and I been here since.....probably too long :D
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Good post Bustr! <S>
Going from memory (which might be faulty) AH really did not have language or mod type problems till we got consistently over 150 in the arena. Of course that happened about the same time AW died, so I always just blamed it on the AW guys. :) jk guys
That is partly why i've had no inclination to fly TT for years.
Of course there are other things that come into play. Changing player dynamics, etc.
I think you'll find the average person who starts playing AH now days is quite different from the average person who started playing AH years back. Things have changed on many levels.
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Ghosth,
Aces High has now matured into the best young adult of two unique parents. It's long from over, this young swinging bastage has just gotten his first wind and a salty vocabulary. I wrote this peice trying to find the common thread that joins everyone who keeps pushing the envelope to shreds. Things like the 2010 NOE Plague are human nature, funny for a time, and HiTech is always aware of them. The cesspool problem and large numbers of players at each other's throats over nothing has been the 800 pound gorrila in the tower with no easy answers for a few years.
Language is tied directly to emotions, has unforseeable consiquences, and can be misunderstood by the simplest distractions. Fortunatly when we are face to face, we each by having learned our language while in the presence of other people, develop an unconciouse process called "Quick Slicing". We process thousands of micro slices in our subconcious of the person speaking to us and learn to judge the intent of words spoken by the micro facial expressions, hand jestures, eye motions, and sound modulations. If all we have is text and no context other than it's litteral construct, during the immersion into a game designed to cause personal conflict and elevated emotions. We will invariably turn channel 200 into a micro combat arena cesspool adjunct to the fights we take part in between countries. Combat is combat is combat by this point.
So lets factor Dunbars number into this. You will always have some number of excited unhappy individuals on ch200. But, the community as a whole will know most of who is out there and ignore/moderate the few unhappy or salty characters up till Dunbars number. As the critical number is closed in on then passed, the number of salty characters increase as a portion of the Super Group total. As the frequency of emotional bad conduct on ch200 picks up, and more players don't know each other predicted by Dunbars number, the tendancy to indulge bad conduct or grudges or loosing ones cool etc. picks up. The only common vector I can identify that sustains this is the ability to openly communicate across countries which just keeps salt in the wounds. We have big mouths and aren't afraid to use them.
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Sounds like something right up my alley Ill have to do some more research but I think your on to something here
bustr. Interesting for sure :salute
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Burst,
Good post. Absolutely. :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o-SuRXwK5o&feature=related :old: :neener:
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I think that Dunbar's number might apply somewhat to AH.I also think that when you get a group of people together in a game of dueling,who bring a lot of different ego's to the table in different states of behavior.Add some alcohol,drugs,etc.,and you have all the ingredients to pizz people off,which the owner has stated is the object of the game.It's my opinion that the game has reached the current level of pizzing people off to a high level,and I'm just sitting back and watching to see if it will achieve even higher states of name calling and pathetic behavior by the players.
Dobe
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Either bustr is brilliant or he's off the Krusty BS scale. Not sure which yet. :headscratch: :D
Where did you get your Phd in psychology?
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Bald,
My wife is an Admissions counselor for National University, an HR professional, an instructional designer, and a corporate instructor in managment culture and manegment worker relations. Her free lance business partner has a Ph.d and several Masters in all these subjects. Over the last 10 years I've proof read both of their work for them, helped grade masters level class papers when they got behind and really do have an Instructors License from "Itto Tenshin Katori Shinto Ryu" Kenjutsu. You cannot learn strategy unless you learn human social dynamics and motivation. How else will you fool people into letting your army slaughter them?
The social dynamics of this game is easy to observe and predictably displays itself as expected because it's a fishbowl environment. Exceed Dunbars number while allowing cross country communication and the vile ch200 garbage will increase as a proportion of the nightly growth of the Super Group. You might say I paid attention and listened to my wife all this years over her feild of experties. I let her read what I started this thread with tonight and she nearly cried. "You , you, actualy have been listening to me all these years...."
Ok bald, you got me, I confess, I copied it from a urinal wall in lockup this last weekend at Santa Rita near Dublin California. Make you feel better? But I'm not that character you are so infatuated with called Voss.
Dosen't anyone read anymore?
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Either bustr is brilliant or he's off the Krusty BS scale. Not sure which yet. :headscratch: :D
Where did you get your Phd in psychology?
After he left the CIA from being stung by a scorp.....nevermind... :bolt:
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It's not a rule, it's a theory, one that relies on particular competitive cultural paradigm, one that is demonstrably locked in a Western European and Capitalist ethos.
I perceive no difference in behaviour whether there are 12 people on or 450.
But then I subscribe to the theory that most people suck.
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I'm gonna keep at this :D
you seem to be applying dunbars number to the entire arena purely because of the availability and (mis)use of ch200 and .pms.
take any human population sample and there will be a small % of them who behave like bananas. take that sample from people who are interacting online, and suffer no consequences for their bad behaviour and the % rises.
I dont know if you've played any online FPS but I can tell you that the critical number which, if exceeded on a server/map/terrain, can cause trouble on x-country comms is ... 2. Ive played on 32 player servers where we've had to kick players every 10mins or so, others where its once a day.
edit: cool, now I know what word the filter changes to :banana: :banana: s
good to know the profanity filter understands (UK) English too :D
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o.k.
The real and brutal true !?
We only need new maps!
If so, then nobody had take care in noe or not noe raid or in full furballing, doctrine etc.
Why i think so?
It seems to me one of the few most frequently wishes with a large base of condivision!
Another is the sheep's one!
It reveals that the ambient is one of the basic stuff in AH.
Nobody seems to take much care?
We will wait at the case of some beautiful possible winter map! If any before 2012! :pray
:salute
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Channel 200 is the primary vehicle of predatory personal strife common to all three countries.
Because it connects everyone in the arena at the same time as though they were all in the same room together, the total arena population constitutes the Primary Super Group that exceeds Dunbars number. The MA arena is rigged to promote conflict between three distinct groups of people. Channel 200 removes the barrier to instantaious combative dialogue between distinct and separate antagonistic Minor Super Groups. Thus no cooling off interludes are imposed before players choose to escalate their saltyness via the common conduit while in the grips of hormonal agitation or inebriation. Males are pre disposed to the enjoyment of thier personal agression chemistry generated during conflict. The argument that players can choose to detune ch200 for the good of the game is sophmoric in the face of demonstratable human history.
Remove the conduit or modify its usage and each country can peacfully populate up each day as an individual super group to Dunbars number with less cesspool conduct across the whole arena. This might even promote more intence combat between countries as the only vehicle to gain revenge or vent frustrations would be to go back to the area of conflict and hunt someone down.
Guys it's easy to take shots at me for venturing this discussion. It costs you nothing to takes shots at me anonymously over the Internet. Why not spend some time researching in depth about this subject so your arguments can provide more insight and possibly help all of us understand the sociology of Internet gameing communities better. Dunbars number is a starting point that I have not seen my detractors even venture to begin with in the years since HiTech had to split the arenas.
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ch200 doesnt connect everyone in the arena by a long way. also I've logged in during the day before when there have been 50 in an arena and seen players going at it on ch200. sure, if you reduce the arena size, the amount of antagonism on ch200 will reduce because there are less players. if you want to eliminate this antagonism completely, set the arena size to 0.
there is a very easy answer to problems on ch200 - detune it. or if you want to tune it, use the tools that are already there. if players are breaking HTCs rules of etiquette, report em. if they are breaking your own rules of etiquette, squelch em.
imo dunbars hypothesis is a good one, I just think you're applying it to the wrong problem.
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imo dunbars hypothesis is a good one, I just think you're applying it to the wrong problem.
Absolutely.
Just like applying the Anthropic Principle to AH would be a weirdly one-eyed view of existence in general.
Dunbar's should be applied to a situation with multi-faceted communication and interaction interfaces, with meat-space being the primary informative matrix. AH is about as artificial a construct as one can experience, both in the tactile and social etiquette sense. To actively invoke Dunbar you need physical, metaphysical, cultural and social frameworks to conform to a societal norm. AH doesn't represent that well because if I call you a bunghole I'm not risking a punch in the face. Muting or a Skuzzy invoked rules-lashing really doesn't add up to a career or relationship damaging event so factors that would normally moderate an exchange are transmogrified into causative factors in a conflict situation.
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Channel 200 is the root of the problem.
Dunbars number is one of many tools for community planning. Strong Informal leadership, shared goals, spontanious cooperative efforts and a strong sense of belonging are demonstrateable hall marks of groups smaller than dunbars number. How many of you are the informal leader or know the informal leader in your workplace that is more effective in helping you than your groups manager? All the time your manager is either clueless or jeoulous of this coworker who all of you turn to first. That is measured by a concept call "Emotional Intelligence".
Ever notice how conditioned we are these days to rip apart new ideas as a reflex and forcing the presenter to justify his personal existance over the idea, rather than launch a barrage of questions to understand the idea to begine a full debate of its pros and cons?
How many of you have spent any time yet researching dunbars number and the theory of emotional intellegence related to informal working groups? Common guys HELP US TO MAKE AH BETTER not us these Forums as a character assaulting DA.
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Sorry, this Dunbar theory just sounds like a load of bull to me :aok
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How many of you have spent any time yet researching dunbars number and the theory of emotional intellegence related to informal working groups?
What, you mean you couldn't tell from my answers?
(You keep dropping capital letters and apostrophes too - blasphemer! Stone him!)
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Absolutely.
Just like applying the Anthropic Principle to AH would be a weirdly one-eyed view of existence in general.
Dunbar's should be applied to a situation with multi-faceted communication and interaction interfaces, with meat-space being the primary informative matrix. AH is about as artificial a construct as one can experience, both in the tactile and social etiquette sense. To actively invoke Dunbar you need physical, metaphysical, cultural and social frameworks to conform to a societal norm. AH doesn't represent that well because if I call you a bunghole I'm not risking a punch in the face. Muting or a Skuzzy invoked rules-lashing really doesn't add up to a career or relationship damaging event so factors that would normally moderate an exchange are transmogrified into causative factors in a conflict situation.
Palef,
You have pulled a sophmoric collage of words and concepts with this continuous weighted worded sentance structure to accomplish nothing more than tell the readership you think what I have presented is gerbil feces and by the sheer weight of your scholorship are demonstrating your contempt for my presentation. How does that help Aces High as opposed to your EGO need to demonstrate you are Grizz in the arena of sentactical elitism?
Please by all means. I concede to your superior intellectual mastery. Take this discussion from here and help this communty. Or are you as lame as everyone else and only want to hoist your own petard in the DA of the AH Forums? Even Grizz knows it's time for a change.................
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I presented my informed opinion, while you sir presented an ad hominem attack.
Just then. Did everyone see that? I feel like someone stole my cheese.
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lol I noticed that.
relax bustr, just because we disagree with your application of dunbar doesnt mean we dont understand or disagree with the principle itself.
edit: just to be clear i'd say that ch200 is the root of the problem that is ch200, and there are solutions to that problem as I outlined above.
I dont see ch200's relevance to overall arena sizes, or whether dunbar should be applied to countries or arenas.
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:headscratch: regardless of the size of country or arena, some people are vile creatures naturally.
Take this bbs for instance, some people just like to vulch and burn you before you get the chance to get off the ground.
Flame away boys :salute
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Funny enough, I was posting about something similarly related that got into the wishlist forum here :
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,292540.0.html
If one of the problems with the negativity grows from a growing number of interactions, would it be possible to remove some of that negativity by differently shaping those interactions (text/chat box)? I came up with a theory of something that may, or may not help in the above link. Would that help the issue or make no difference?
(This is not an attempt at a threadjack, but I think they are related as I posted my text/chat change suggestions based upon a similar premise to what's hypothesized by bustr here)
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Kinda reminds me of the "Hundredth Monkey Effect".
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:salute Bustr for a thought provoking topic.
We have big mouths and aren't afraid to use them.
Those who acknowledge this fact should exercise some self restraint. Like a twelve step program, “Hello, I am RufLeak and I am a flame-aholic.”
You might say I paid attention and listened to my wife all this years over her feild of experties. I let her read what I started this thread with tonight and she nearly cried. "You , you, actualy have been listening to me all these years...."
Listen to one’s wife? A novel concept …
The argument that players can choose to detune ch200 for the good of the game is sophmoric in the face of demonstratable human history.
For the record, I detune 200 99% of the time.
… with meat-space being the primary informative matrix.
Suddenly, I crave a hamburger.
How many of you have spent any time yet researching dunbars number and the theory of emotional intellegence related to informal working groups? Common guys HELP US TO MAKE AH BETTER not us these Forums as a character assaulting DA.
This is the first I have heard about Dunbar. I have read some DoD literature on unit cohesion versus mission accomplishment. To be completely open minded, the theory of Dunbar’s number is one of many theories on human behavior in groups.
How does that help Aces High as opposed to your EGO need to demonstrate you are Grizz in the arena of sentactical elitism?
Even Grizz knows it's time for a change.................
Why invoke the name of Grizz? No disrespect to the man, but does his expertise cover group behavior?
Though, he does lead the AH Forums with the most posters having a man-crush on him.
Kinda reminds me of the "Hundredth Monkey Effect".
Is this the one where they eventually type "Hamlet?"
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Kinda reminds me of the "Hundredth Monkey Effect".
Is that the nana thing?
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why go through all the psycho babble analysis. Just detune the damned all channels.
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Channel 200 is the root of All Evil.
There, I fixed it for you.
And by the way, speaking of Evil - why is it that whenever Evil is mentioned, it's always "Ancient Evil"? What do we have to do to get some "Newly Minted Evil"?
But seriously, folks... if you don't like 200, don't tune it - voila! Evil abated.
Complaining about the cesspool 200 can be at times is a little like the woman who called the police to report being flashed - one of her neighbor's was standing nude behind his screen door. When asked if she was positive he was actually nude, she replied that she was - she drove by six times just to make sure.
How many times do you have to stick the fork in the socket (or tune 200) before you realize that you don't like what happens?
<S>
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Channel 200 is the root of the problem.
Channel 200 is the root of All Evil.
There, I fixed it for you.
Channel 200 is where behavior problems are displayed. It is a symptom, not the problem.
I have read this thread as a discussion of human behavior in groups, and an theoretical sweet spot of 150.
Applied to the game, 150 seems like a low target for populating an entire arena. 150 per side seems like more fun. 450 potentially on channel 200 violates Dunbar's number, if I am following the discussion. This is where detuning and squelch come in.
That this thread took all of three pages (and 534 views as of this posting) to get to flaming is interesting.
Most of us can learn a little etiquette. Skuzzy's Finishing school?
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I wonder,since I havent looked it up,and honestly probably wont,but,does dunbars rule take into account inebriation of different substances into the "POOL" of 150?
I am asking this question from a neutral perspective..but it also has to be taken into account.ANd so,if I am in the company of someone within my space at work or say,the pool,and they are acting silly and spouting jibberish because they are inebriated, then I have the ability to either leave the area,or ignore them..In-game I would think it is the same if someone de-tunes 200 when it gets to them..
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"Dunbar's number is not derived from systematic observation of the number of relationships that people living in the contemporary world have. It comes from extrapolation from nonhuman primates and from inspection of selected documents showing network sizes in selected pre-industrial villages and settlements in less developed countries.
Anthropologist H. Russell Bernard and Peter Killworth and associates have done a variety of field studies in the United States that came up with an estimated mean number of ties - 290 - that is roughly double Dunbar's estimate. The Bernard-Killworth median of 231 is lower, due to upward straggle in the distribution: this is still appreciably larger than Dunbar's estimate. The Bernard-Killworth estimate of the maximum likelihood of the size of a person's social network is based on a number of field studies using different methods in various populations. It is not an average of study averages but a repeated finding.[5][6"
Well the first step would be to limit the number of non-human primates with access to ch 200... :bolt:
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:lol
edit: I dont see any flaming here, maybe one comment which was taken in good humour. and that was pretty mild. mild like, say, a nice bit of Wensleydale.
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Nice post bustr, but really this is nothing more then the reason we split arenas. And the reason we limit squad sizes.
HiTech
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got to say on the occasions I do more than a .s and type gf etc on ch200, only get a response 10% of the time. suggests to me that only 10% of players tune it...
I thought the same thing at first. Until I did a Little studier. Mark the name of someone that does not respond. then watch 200 for 15 Min's I found that they absolutely tune 200. they just dint respond especially when they get killed verses when they do the killing.
<S>
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tune for a full 15mins? :confused: ok that explains it, my limits about 5. I have a very low tolerance for BS ;)
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Nice post bustr, but really this is nothing more then the reason we split arenas. And the reason we limit squad sizes.
HiTech
I appreciate the aknowlegment.
Sometimes I get tired of the rinse and repeat boiler plate style of verbal dueling in here and see if I can kick it up a bit. It's always impressive reading the threads you and several of our accomplished aeronotical engineering members take part in. I guess I picked too arcane a topic to be inviteing for an indepth analysis. Of the two goals I wanted to achive, deriving the common ch200 vector for the saltyness was achived. Your comment just now on why you split the arenas and limit squad size finished my mission.
I'll report back to being cannon fodder for this forums denizens.
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Ok bald, you got me, I confess, I copied it from a urinal wall in lockup this last weekend at Santa Rita near Dublin California. Make you feel better? But I'm not that character you are so infatuated with called Voss.
I've never, until right now, typed Voss' name. In fact, I somehow missed that episode in flight sim history. I think you have me confused with someone else.
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I've never, until right now, typed Voss' name. In fact, I somehow missed that episode in flight sim history. I think you have me confused with someone else.
My deepest and sincerest apology.
Shows you how bad my memory is and how littel I payed attention to the Voss Drama Island episodes. I drew an invalid infrence from your question about a Ph.D that I was about to inherit the mantel of "Voss-2010" due to the legend of his personal stories. Kinda like how the Serial Cartoon series "The Phantom" had the construct of the "Ghost Who Walks" legend but, in reverse. Again I offer my apology, and you did not deserve my unkind response. :salute
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tune for a full 15mins? :confused: ok that explains it, my limits about 5. I have a very low tolerance for BS ;)
I just look at it like going to the grocery store. There are 15 isles of junk i have no interest in. I just go get what I want. It does not offend me that there are Items that i have no interest in.