Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DeltaFox on July 16, 2010, 09:59:42 PM
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Hi,
I just setup my new CH trio of Pro Pedals, Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. I had to get a powered hub since I am now low on available USB ports.
This is a bit like riding a bicycle. It took me a good hour to finally get off the runway in the training area, not in autopilot, just to take off. It ain't pretty. Some difference from my Saitek twisty stick I've been using the past 3 years.
What is the proper procedure to turn using rudder pedals in conjunction with using the ailerons? Is up elevator also employed in the process as I turn?
Would a tutorial within Microsoft's Flight Sim be useful to employ with Aces High? I remember one of my Microsoft Flight Sims had actual people tutors to walk me through the basics of learning to fly; think it was the 2002 package.
I have never used CH Products before and never have used rudder pedals. I find the controls to be sensitive and demand a light touch feel.
I calibrated each component through Windows game controller in Windows 7, then setup within the mapping controls area of the Aces High clipboard and calibrated everything there too. I setup my stick scaling "Y" as to Ack-Ack's treatise and "X" as to Ren's. The CH Control Manager I did load up on my hard drive, but did not get into it much.
I am definitely back to sim flight school with this new setup, forget about air combat for now.
Any help is appreciated.
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I went to http://www.ch-hangar.com/ and talked to Revvin and he walked me through the sensitivity issue which I'm experimenting with because I have a heavy hand and tend to lean on my pedals. He also gave me a profile which I'm in the process of tweaking to my tastes but it's a good starting point. One thing that I remember about the switch from twisty stick to CH gear is getting your muscle memory back where everything is instinctual.
Best of luck to ya :)
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I would suggest enabling scaling and maybe damping in-game until you get used to them. Rudder pedals take some getting used to - just remember "push the foot where you want to turn". So to turn left, push your left foot and aileron roll left. It doesn't take much. It's very easy to over-use the rudder with pedals, because your leg muscles are larger (much larger) than your wrist muscles. ;)
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actually my right wrist musc... never mind :D
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What is the proper procedure to turn using rudder pedals in conjunction with using the ailerons? Is up elevator also employed in the process as I turn?
So, should you be using them for turning in general? Like in high-speed turns? I haven't been using mine until I need to in the course of a fight.
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One thing that helped me when I was making the transition to rudder pedals was not actually resting my entire foot in the pedal stirrup. I found it easier to make fine input adjustments by resting the heels of my feet on the base, in front of the pedals themselves and placing my toes, balls of my feet on the actual pedal.
I have a tendency to hold rudder input w/out realizing it (especially when I was first getting used to them) and I find it easy to just pick up my toes to at times to make sure I'm rudder neutral.
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play barefooted or just socks
find a way to keep pedals from moving on the floor
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80% of the time, you won't need to worry about them affecting your turning in-game. There may be times, especially when you get slow, that you may need to "step on the ball" to tighten a turn up, but for combat maneuvering, they don't come into play much. They come into play nicely once you get slow in the vertical, as you'll need to stay coordinated.
That being said, I use mine for correcting shots or to aim shots. I fly Jugs a lot, and sometimes can't make them turn as sharply as I need for a shot, so I wind up skidding into the turn to take a tighter shot than I could actually fly.
My recommendation is to not use any scaling at all for the rudders or brakes. I don't use scaling for ailerons either but that's up to you. Use enough deadband to keep your normal, resting foot pressure from adding unwanted rudder input. In time, you'll get used to them.
Last, one thing I recommend is to keep an eye on the calibration, especially the brakes. I have to recal my brakes from time to time--my left one has a tendency to create a "dragging brake" effect from introducing a little brake input, even when I'm not putting any input in.
p.s. socks or barefoot.
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Deltafox, as Stoney mentioned, rudder pedals are used to co-ordinate your turns.
When you use the ailerons to roll into the turn you create adverse yaw. The rising wing has more induced drag than the descending wing so the nose of your aircraft moves away from the turn. You add rudder as you roll into the turn to correct this. Once you are establised in the turn you may not need any rudder input until you roll out.
Watch the ball on the Turn and Bank Indicator when you maneuver. When the ball is centered you don't need rudder input. Whichever side the ball moves to is the side where you need to push the pedal to center it. This is called "stepping on the ball".
If the ball is off to the side when you're flying straight just center it with rudder trim.
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Congrats on the purchase of the last control set you'll ever buy! :devil
Using rudders in turns is called co-ordinated turns. If you look at the dash there is a graphic of a glass tube with a ball in it, the tube is shaped like a smile. When turning the idea is to add enough rudder to keep the ball centered. The idea is that by making a co-ordinated turn you will be smoother, saving "E".
I use to be pretty heavy handed.... and footed :D but after being here for years I think I have gotten much easier/smoother on the controls. With that being said below is how I have my controls set....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/rudder.gif)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/elevator.gif)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/aileron.gif)
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p.s. socks or barefoot.
Crocks bro... Crocks ;)
Interesting POV though.
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The OP's original questions require more detail to accurately answer. Yes, rudder is used during a turn to counteract the tendancy of roll, torque and P-factor to create a yawing moment (usually away from the turn direction). The use of rudder counteracts the undesired yaw and creates what is called a coordinated turn in which the airplane has no sideslip in the turn. This is the most efficient type of turn but in AH the gain is very small. Actually, 99% of the time AH airplanes will turn close to a coordinated turn just fine without it.
That said, do not forget all the other things rudders do for you. First off they create (or counter) yaw as mentioned above; however, due to dihedral effect they will create a rolling moment. Left rudder = left roll and right rudder = right roll. So, the OP's question of: What is the proper procedure to turn using rudder pedals in conjunction with using the ailerons?
is a little more complicated than just using rudder for coordinated flight that others have adequately addressed. Many planes suffer from low roll rates, particularly at slow speeds. What's this got to do with rudder? Well, remember what I said about dihedral effect? Stuff in a bootful of rudder in the desired direction of turn along with the normal aileron input and dihedral effect increases the airplane's roll rate making it much easier and quicker to change directions. This is much more important in AH than coordinated turns. So, the rule here is to always use rudder into the desired direction of turn along with aileron to position your lift vector in the direction of turn more quickly.
This leads to the OP's second question: Is up elevator also employed in the process as I turn?
Absolutely! No turn can be executed without applying G. If you roll the airplane either with aileron, rudder or both but don't pull back on the stick you've just got a roll, not a turn. Standard turns are always initiated by setting the direction of the turn with roll then pulling G with aft stick.
There are other things that smart rudder useage will give you such as vertical reversals, snap rolls, and better speed control but figure out the basics first and then move on to the more advanced stuff. Also, do a search here on this forum as there are many threads about the use of rudder for advanced techniques.
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Crocks bro... Crocks ;)
Interesting POV though.
Nope, you're all wrong. Get a pair of $10 water shoes, and wear them over a pair of cotton dress socks if you want optimum control and comfort. The rubber soles grip against the pedals and they are thin enough that you have plenty of "feel" for what you are doing, and the dress socks keep your feet from sweating or being abraded by the seams of the water shoes.
My wife thinks they look dorky, but I just smile and say "Yes dear, I know." I mean seriously - how much more dorkiness can a pair of water shoes over Argyle dress socks add to a middle aged man playing fighter pilot with other middle aged men over the Internet?
I think dorkiness is kind of like pouring water in a five gallon bucket - at some point, no matter how much more you add you've already got as much as you can get.
<S>
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I definitely like the Fighterstick. It seems to be weighted and counterbalanced much better than the Saitek AV8R twisty I have been using and much more accurate as to its moves especially in the wirble and field gun. Of course it is brand new and no wear as of yet to compensate for.
Spent all day yesterday just using the Fighterstick and not having the Pro Throttle even plugged in, yet. To get a better feel for the rudder pedals, I bypassed the Auto Takeoff feature and take off manually. Landing is interesting.
Yeah, socks work. Hospital visits I get the "rubber" soled slipper socks. I save 'em and bring 'em home; a little better traction on the pedals. I even bring home the graduated beakers, urinals and measuring cups come in handy in the shop when measuring something, though metric. The vomit trays are nice inserts for my bench grinder water troughs. Yeah, I know, I am nuts! LOL!
Thanks for the very useful replies.
Hi,
I just setup my new CH trio of Pro Pedals, Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. I had to get a powered hub since I am now low on available USB ports.
This is a bit like riding a bicycle. It took me a good hour to finally get off the runway in the training area, not in autopilot, just to take off. It ain't pretty. Some difference from my Saitek twisty stick I've been using the past 3 years.
What is the proper procedure to turn using rudder pedals in conjunction with using the ailerons? Is up elevator also employed in the process as I turn?
Would a tutorial within Microsoft's Flight Sim be useful to employ with Aces High? I remember one of my Microsoft Flight Sims had actual people tutors to walk me through the basics of learning to fly; think it was the 2002 package.
I have never used CH Products before and never have used rudder pedals. I find the controls to be sensitive and demand a light touch feel.
I calibrated each component through Windows game controller in Windows 7, then setup within the mapping controls area of the Aces High clipboard and calibrated everything there too. I setup my stick scaling "Y" as to Ack-Ack's treatise and "X" as to Ren's. The CH Control Manager I did load up on my hard drive, but did not get into it much.
I am definitely back to sim flight school with this new setup, forget about air combat for now.
Any help is appreciated.
-
...urinals and measuring cups come in handy...
As I was reading this, I thought you were going to go into some sort of "hard-core, I have my own relief tube so I don't have to leave the game..." kind-of-thing...
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and being 'nut's' is a problem why?
:)
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I go barefoot and use only my toes. I find this way I'm not putting input in when not needed. I would scale some till you get used to them, I use scaling so that you don't put to much input in the beginning. Mine is close to FUGITIVES. You will learn to fly with the peddles and wonder how you ever flew without them.
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Spent all day yesterday just using the Fighterstick and not having the Pro Throttle even plugged in, yet. To get a better feel for the rudder pedals, I bypassed the Auto Takeoff feature and take off manually. Landing is interesting.
For what it is worth, set your RPM on the stick throttle wheel. If you switch off engine to conserve fuel for landing (when not enough fuel to get back with engine running all the time) you can adjust the RPM down and it acts like feathering the prop. Glide improves very noticably. don't forget to turn it back up when you restart the engine for landing or when you get too low! To try this out set the aircraft in autoclimb and shut off the engine. It will settle into a glide at speed for best climb. Then adjust the RPM and see the difference!
I frequently use a side slip to get down quickly, i.e crossed controls with full rudder one way and enough aileron to stop the induced roll. Uncross the controls when you have scrubbed off the excess height.
Offline set a wind at ground level to enjoy crosswind take offs and landings , learn to kick off drift or use the one wing low method! - I don't think the wind is enabled at ground level on line as things like PT boats get blown around and you can't exit them because you have to be still!
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What is the proper procedure to turn using rudder pedals in conjunction with using the ailerons? Is up elevator also employed in the process as I turn?
Would a tutorial within Microsoft's Flight Sim be useful to employ with Aces High? I remember one of my Microsoft Flight Sims had actual people tutors to walk me through the basics of learning to fly; think it was the 2002 package.
I’m a CFI with over 25 years of teaching new students , what the pedals are for. Yes, any tutorial including Microsoft’s on the use of the aircraft controls, elevator, ailerons , and rudder and how they are responsible for flight control (the four fundamentals) would be helpful.
To understand why the rudder, find out about
1). Adverse aileron yaw.
2). PFactor
3). Gyroscopic precession
4). Yaw
5). Slip
When asked the question, what makes an airplane turn, remember to answer; “Roll & Lift”, it is not the rudder . Yes, you can if you have enough time, force a change in direction of flight if you stand on the rudder long enough it will turn, but that is not what the rudder is for. From within the aircraft, it is basically used to keep the ball centered.
Hope this helps