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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MachFly on August 06, 2010, 03:06:12 PM

Title: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: MachFly on August 06, 2010, 03:06:12 PM
Is there a certain formula which assigns the plane it's ENY and perk value?

I understand that the better the plane is the lower the ENY is and the higher the perk value is. But to what extent? For example what does a plane need to have to earn an ENY of 10 not 15? or what does a plane need to have to each a perk value of 15 not 10? Some of us would say that a plane with an ENY of 5 is better than a plane with the ENY of 15, but better is an opinion. For example; some of us prefer the F4U-1A (ENY 15) over Spit 16 (ENY 5).
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 03:09:02 PM
Yes....


Plane x Skuzzy / HiTech ==
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: oakranger on August 06, 2010, 03:10:40 PM
Yes....


Plane x Skuzzy / HiTech ==

NO NO NO!  It is Plane x Skuzzy / HiTech to the Pyro power =
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Wiley on August 06, 2010, 03:30:58 PM
Do those formulas come from different versions of the game maybe?

Seriously though, what they're trying to say is, to a certain degree ENY is based on numbers, but there's also a subjective portion to it based on popularity, actual K/D in the arenas over time, and I would imagine just plain out and out opinion by the devs.

Wiley.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Shuffler on August 06, 2010, 03:32:52 PM
It is common knowledge that some of the numbers were developed over scotch.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: oakranger on August 06, 2010, 03:36:23 PM
It is common knowledge that some of the numbers were developed over scotch.

Had to been one of them long days.

Do those formulas come from different versions of the game maybe?

Seriously though, what they're trying to say is, to a certain degree ENY is based on numbers, but there's also a subjective portion to it based on popularity, actual K/D in the arenas over time, and I would imagine just plain out and out opinion by the devs.

Wiley.


Nobody outside of AH office really knows how ENY is set up.  Personally, there need to be a few changes on some of the AC ENY.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: SlapShot on August 06, 2010, 03:38:20 PM
It is common knowledge that some of the numbers were developed over scotch.

and beef carpaccio.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Nemisis on August 06, 2010, 03:53:15 PM
IMO, if we get many more aircraft or a couple more tanks or some tank destroyers, we're going to need a complete overhaul of the ENY.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 03:53:36 PM
Some of us would say that a plane with an ENY of 5 is better than a plane with the ENY of 15, but better is an opinion. For example; some of us prefer the F4U-1A (ENY 15) over Spit 16 (ENY 5).

And so is ENY: Just an opinion. In this case the developer's. ;)

There is no way to base it just on numbers / performance, because in some ways it's like a game of rock, paper & scissors. It may seem easy to quantify a planes strengths & weaknesses, but then you have to weight the different categories - which means you are back to subjectivity.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: JunkyII on August 06, 2010, 04:08:30 PM
Brewster should be a 15 ENY....

just sayin
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Wiley on August 06, 2010, 04:11:17 PM
Quote
Nobody outside of AH office really knows how ENY is set up.  Personally, there need to be a few changes on some of the AC ENY.

I'd rate a lot of the blue planes as having too high an ENY for their capabilities, and I think probably the 109K4 is the biggest example of too much capability for its ENY.

I think perhaps experience plays a huge factor with some of the planes though.  Most of the 5 ENY stuff is planes a newb can get into and stand a half decent chance in.  If you put most guys who've spent the 3 months they've been subscribed here in a spixteen in a 109K, you're going to get a completely different result than if you put an average guy that's been flying a lot of different aircraft for a couple years in a 109K.

I have a feeling they've kind of tried to 'split the difference' on some of their decisions, so newer people still have some kind of 'easier' planes to fly when ENY goes high, like a Brew or the lower mark Spits.  Some of the planes that have higher ENY because they're arguably harder to use can hang with the late war monsters in somewhat experienced hands.  I'm not talking about the top shelf people here, I mean average, middle of the pack schmucks like me.

Wiley.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 04:11:38 PM
I miss the days when the C.205 was ENY 40... gave me my only 100 perks sortie without rearming ever   :D
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: oakranger on August 06, 2010, 04:44:08 PM
I miss the days when the C.205 was ENY 40... gave me my only 100 perks sortie without rearming ever   :D

How many kills was that?
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Lusche on August 06, 2010, 04:46:56 PM
How many kills was that?

Not as many as you might think... it was only 7 or so, most of them La7's (which had been at ENY 5 at that time), on top of that a mighty perk modifier as my side was greatly outnumbered.

Was a one in a million day when everything came together, very unlikely such a thing will ever happen to me again.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Crash Orange on August 06, 2010, 06:44:41 PM
I think perhaps experience plays a huge factor with some of the planes though.  Most of the 5 ENY stuff is planes a newb can get into and stand a half decent chance in.  If you put most guys who've spent the 3 months they've been subscribed here in a spixteen in a 109K, you're going to get a completely different result than if you put an average guy that's been flying a lot of different aircraft for a couple years in a 109K.

That seems to be a part of it, doesn't it? But it shouldn't, it should really be the opposite. After all, if you're outnumbered 3-1, who would you rather have as the 3, three newbies in Spit16s or three veterans in 109K4s?

109K4 is the best example of this, and it's the single plane in the entire set with the most out-of-whack LW ENY value. It should be 8 or maybe 10.

Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Nemisis on August 07, 2010, 01:39:03 PM
Some of the planes that have higher ENY because they're arguably harder to use can hang with the late war monsters in somewhat experienced hands.  I'm not talking about the top shelf people here, I mean average, middle of the pack schmucks like me.

C205, 190A5, 109G2, 109F, P-51B, FM2, F4U-1, and the Yak-9U are all fairly high ENY rides that can give competition to the LW rides. I personally feel that the 190A5 is the most deadly variant of the family.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: SmokinLoon on August 07, 2010, 02:13:54 PM
That seems to be a part of it, doesn't it? But it shouldn't, it should really be the opposite. After all, if you're outnumbered 3-1, who would you rather have as the 3, three newbies in Spit16s or three veterans in 109K4s?

109K4 is the best example of this, and it's the single plane in the entire set with the most out-of-whack LW ENY value. It should be 8 or maybe 10.



I'd be willing to bet that the reason the K4 isnt scored better for ENY is it cant carry ord, turns horrible to the right (1 dimensional turner), and has a very low ammo count.  Yes, it is one of the fastest in the game, it accelerates and climbs like banshee, and it hits hard.  To make that plane perform at its best, the learning curve is big.


Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: grizz441 on August 07, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
109K4 is the best example of this, and it's the single plane in the entire set with the most out-of-whack LW ENY value. It should be 8 or maybe 10.

On average it has very poor lethality.  Most guys will not kill more than 3 bad guys before having to rtb.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Lusche on August 07, 2010, 02:33:09 PM
On average it has very poor lethality.  Most guys will not kill more than 3 bad guys before having to rtb.

Players consistently killing 3 bad guys in a single mission are pretty rare in any plane ;)
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 07, 2010, 03:34:16 PM
Players consistently killing 3 bad guys in a single mission are pretty rare in any plane ;)

The key word is "consistently" and I don't recall anyone mentioning than about the K4.

The K4 seems to me to be more of an "Experten" plane.  Not anyone can jump in it and be successful versus.

Its ENY is fine where it is.


wrongway
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: AAJagerX on August 07, 2010, 06:11:52 PM
Not as many as you might think... it was only 7 or so, most of them La7's (which had been at ENY 5 at that time), on top of that a mighty perk modifier as my side was greatly outnumbered.

Was a one in a million day when everything came together, very unlikely such a thing will ever happen to me again.

If that ever happened to me I'd immediately start worrying about getting hit by lightning while being attacked by a shark.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: --)SF---- on August 07, 2010, 06:41:28 PM
C205, 190A5, 109G2, 109F, P-51B, FM2, F4U-1, and the Yak-9U are all fairly high ENY rides that can give competition to the LW rides. I personally feel that the 190A5 is the most deadly variant of the family.

Duh!

you left out LA5 and KI61
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Nemisis on August 07, 2010, 07:26:20 PM
oh right. I never fly those, so I guess I didn't think about them. The Ki-84 is one as well.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: MachFly on August 07, 2010, 08:21:42 PM
If you fly the 109K4 your either the best in it or the worst. That is because to be successful in that airplane to need to an expert and know everything about it. If your an average pilot, or even the best one but you don't fly the K4 you wont be getting many kills, it will be like dogfighting in a goon.


However i still think it's ENY is to high.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Nemisis on August 07, 2010, 09:09:37 PM
Before the final battle scenario, I had been using the K4 a good bit. I found that you could be at least somewhat successful if you wait, watch, and be VERY picky about your targets. I spent most of my time tearing it up low on the deck so I could make a pass from low 6 on any con that was going in a fairly strait line and was as of yet unaware of my presence. I would sneak up on a con 600-800ft below him, and when I got around 200yds behind him, I would climb up, fire a single round with the 30mm and then continue up through the climb to avoid a collision if I only knocked off a wing or the tail.


It takes a lot of patients and you may need to take more than 50% fuel if you want more than 2 kills, but this is what worked for me. IDK what any of the K4 experts have to say about my shenanigans though.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: guncrasher on August 07, 2010, 10:53:53 PM
That reminds me of the time I landed 12 kills in seafire while vulching a field and got something like 5 or 6 perks.


Semp
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: The Fugitive on August 08, 2010, 08:43:52 AM
Before the final battle scenario, I had been using the K4 a good bit. I found that you could be at least somewhat successful if you wait, watch, and be VERY picky about your targets. I spent most of my time tearing it up low on the deck so I could make a pass from low 6 on any con that was going in a fairly strait line and was as of yet unaware of my presence. I would sneak up on a con 600-800ft below him, and when I got around 200yds behind him, I would climb up, fire a single round with the 30mm and then continue up through the climb to avoid a collision if I only knocked off a wing or the tail.


It takes a lot of patients and you may need to take more than 50% fuel if you want more than 2 kills, but this is what worked for me. IDK what any of the K4 experts have to say about my shenanigans though.

This is NOT fighting in a K4, it's called picking and can be done with ease in any plane.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: BaldEagl on August 08, 2010, 09:49:27 AM
If you fly the 109K4 your either the best in it or the worst. That is because to be successful in that airplane to need to an expert and know everything about it. If your an average pilot, or even the best one but you don't fly the K4 you wont be getting many kills, it will be like dogfighting in a goon.


However i still think it's ENY is to high.

I fly the K4 successfully quite a bit and I'm no expert... just an average pilot.  I'm also not the worst in it.  Contrary to what nemisis said the K4 can mix it up pretty good against most of the plane set.
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: guncrasher on August 08, 2010, 01:20:27 PM
Funny things about 109's, most people think the only move it has is the rope.  About 80% of the ones I kill is some guy trying to rope ver and over and they forget to pay attention to the plane getting alt about 4 it 5k away.  Then boom one last rope attempt and they die.


Semp
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: StokesAk on August 08, 2010, 03:14:42 PM
C205, 190A5, 109G2, 109F, P-51B, FM2, F4U-1, and the Yak-9U are all fairly high ENY rides that can give competition to the LW rides. I personally feel that the 190A5 is the most deadly variant of the family.

P38G
Title: Re: ENY & Perk Value
Post by: Muzzy on August 08, 2010, 03:18:38 PM
Brew.  And the P40E under some circumstances.