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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: jamdive on August 10, 2010, 01:17:58 AM

Title: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 10, 2010, 01:17:58 AM
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ec2b2d4c0d7564cf748239e1cf9b15d96g.jpg)

HTC could you get me this thing to use on airjer?
It would greatly reduce my eggtard deaths.

Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: TwinTail on August 10, 2010, 01:24:18 AM
Evidently i doubt it Jam, seeing as a A20, B5N, or Stuka could merly fly around at close range behind you and egg you anyways. The turret rotation on this 88mm gun would probably be comparable to the new Anti-Tank guns rotation speed we have now? And the proxy fuse wouldn't be available like the CV's have so you Mise well use an Osti with a quicker turret rotation and a faster fire rate?

Just some food for thought.

Syotos
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Clone155 on August 10, 2010, 05:40:31 AM
Evidently i doubt it Jam, seeing as a A20, B5N, or Stuka could merly fly around at close range behind you and egg you anyways. The turret rotation on this 88mm gun would probably be comparable to the new Anti-Tank guns rotation speed we have now? And the proxy fuse wouldn't be available like the CV's have so you Mise well use an Osti with a quicker turret rotation and a faster fire rate?

Just some food for thought.

Syotos

I would think it would be a hell of a lot slower, comparable to the CV 5 inch guns. And if this was ever added, all you need is one on a hill overlooking a base, and they could vulch all day.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Avanti on August 10, 2010, 06:15:56 AM
(http://www.armyrecognition.com/Amerique_du_nord/Etats_Unis/vehicules_a_roues/Stryker/Stryker_MGS/Stryker_MGS_Mbile_Gun_System_USA_07.jpg)

one of these could work...
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Wildcat1 on August 10, 2010, 08:17:20 AM
(http://www.armyrecognition.com/Amerique_du_nord/Etats_Unis/vehicules_a_roues/Stryker/Stryker_MGS/Stryker_MGS_Mbile_Gun_System_USA_07.jpg)

one of these could work...

now we're talking
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 10, 2010, 12:27:33 PM
I would think it would be a hell of a lot slower, comparable to the CV 5 inch guns. And if this was ever added, all you need is one on a hill overlooking a base, and they could vulch all day.

Who needs speed when you can start poking at it from 20k away.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 10, 2010, 03:23:47 PM
and it would have da AP shelz!!!
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Imowface on August 10, 2010, 05:51:52 PM
lol look at the crew on it, I would have no problem with adding it if it only took a few 303.s to turret it
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Lusche on August 10, 2010, 05:53:27 PM
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ec2b2d4c0d7564cf748239e1cf9b15d96g.jpg)

HTC could you get me this thing to use on airjer?
It would greatly reduce my eggtard deaths.

I doubt that. It would not work like our 5" AA guns... no radar fuzed shells.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: lyric1 on August 10, 2010, 06:14:05 PM
I would have it only just for the novelty factor. Plus in AHII people find useful purposes in game that the original products intent is hardly ever used for that purpose.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 10, 2010, 07:20:20 PM
I can see it being used as a AA mobile platform, direct mobile artillery and a mobile anti-tank gun.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: lyric1 on August 10, 2010, 09:13:51 PM
I can see it being used as a AA mobile platform, direct mobile artillery and a mobile anti-tank gun.

ack-ack
Hill side camp 6k away from airfield & pop them as they fly by.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Tupac on August 10, 2010, 09:34:53 PM
Or just get your self a spotter and shoot the part of the runway where the planes spawn. I like that idea.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 10, 2010, 09:59:48 PM
hey guys. this would be a great addition as long as flak shells MUST be time fused for distance and you must calculate it out. AP shells maybe... thatd be a painful addition and this thing should need a perk
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Tupac on August 10, 2010, 10:00:36 PM
hey guys. this would be a great addition as long as flak shells MUST be time fused for distance and you must calculate it out. AP shells maybe... thatd be a painful addition and this thing should need a perk

Aircraft could strafe it and kill it easy, doesnt warrant a perk price.

It would be deadly against tanks though.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 10, 2010, 10:11:18 PM
Aircraft could strafe it and kill it easy, doesnt warrant a perk price.

It would be deadly against tanks though.
the second part is why id perk it. that and itd kill lancs easily with one well placed shot
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 10, 2010, 10:20:53 PM
hey guys. this would be a great addition as long as flak shells MUST be time fused for distance and you must calculate it out. AP shells maybe... thatd be a painful addition and this thing should need a perk

Are you serious? A .45 could turret that thing (in all seriousnes, it probably COULD turret this). A D3A should be able to kill the crew with 1 sec burst. You need to factor in how easily this thing would be turreted or outright killed, not just how powerful its gun is or how fast it is. Any sort of HE weapon (20mm +) will turret this thing like it was a field gun.

I agree with Ack-Ack that this would be used in ways it wasn't origionally intended. I would use it to shell towns, kill pesky bomb****s from the saftey of the base's auto ack, and as a mobile AT gun.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 02:55:20 AM

I agree with Ack-Ack that this would be used in ways it wasn't origionally intended. I would use it to shell towns, kill pesky bombers from the saftey of the base's auto ack, and as a mobile AT gun.

lol, this was one of the most versitile guns the germans had, and arguably the best in ww2. They used it on everything and/or every one. Tank killing, bunker busting, infantry support, AA, you name it. So as far as an un-intended use, I guess you could plant flowers in it.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: lyric1 on August 11, 2010, 03:33:32 AM
lol, this was one of the most versitile guns the germans had, and arguably the best in ww2. They used it on everything and/or every one. Tank killing, bunker busting, infantry support, AA, you name it. So as far as an un-intended use, I guess you could plant flowers in it.
  CV killer would be fun.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Avanti on August 11, 2010, 06:23:03 AM
lol, this was one of the most versitile guns the germans had, and arguably the best in ww2. They used it on everything and/or every one. Tank killing, bunker busting, infantry support, AA, you name it. So as far as an un-intended use, I guess you could plant flowers in it.

I had forgotten about this, my great uncle was telling me how he he had these used on him....

+1 for the 88mm
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 11, 2010, 12:47:15 PM

I agree with Ack-Ack that this would be used in ways it wasn't origionally intended. I would use it to shell towns, kill pesky bombers from the saftey of the base's auto ack, and as a mobile AT gun.

I never said that.  I said I could see this being used as a mobile AA vehicle, mobile direct artillery vehicle and a mobile anti-tank gun.  Which believe it or not, was the intended use of the Grille 10 88mm Flak 41.  However, it is a rather moot point since none of the Grille 10s made it beyong the prototype stage, with only a single prototype seeing action in Italy where it was sent to be evaluated under combat conditions.

(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/gr10_5.jpg)


ack-ack
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 11, 2010, 12:49:05 PM
Are you serious? A .45 could turret that thing (in all seriousnes, it probably COULD turret this). A D3A should be able to kill the crew with 1 sec burst. You need to factor in how easily this thing would be turreted or outright killed, not just how powerful its gun is or how fast it is. Any sort of HE weapon (20mm +) will turret this thing like it was a field gun.

I agree with Ack-Ack that this would be used in ways it wasn't origionally intended. I would use it to shell towns, kill pesky bombers from the saftey of the base's auto ack, and as a mobile AT gun.
nemesis im getting tired of these arguments... yes a .45 can turret it after a few placed shots but if that 88 nails your bomber that is 15k feet in the air im pretty sure the 88 is a good weapon to have... the AP aspect would kill most tanks in one or two shots and if driven to a hilltop could kill as well as a tiger could and add the AA possibility and you have an unarmored tiger basically which kills A/C as much as GVs... hmm... PERK
I never said that.  I said I could see this being used as a mobile AA vehicle, mobile direct artillery vehicle and a mobile anti-tank gun.  Which believe it or not, was the intended use of the Grille 10 88mm Flak 41.  However, it is a rather moot point since none of the Grille 10s made it beyong the prototype stage, with only a single prototype seeing action in Italy where it was sent to be evaluated under combat conditions.

(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/gr10_5.jpg)


ack-ack
do you know of any mobile 88s that were used in combat? and even then stat 88 on a base for AA and AT would be painful still
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 01:45:53 PM
So your saying that you want a perked tiger that can be knocked out by an M8 at long range? And what is the traverse rate of this gun? 2 A/C approach from different angles = turret damaged.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 11, 2010, 01:48:49 PM
So your saying that you want a perked tiger that can be knocked out by an M8 at long range? And what is the traverse rate of this gun? 2 A/C approach from different angles = turret damaged.
ever think of using tactics? and SA for once dude? im starting to think you just like arguing... you wouldnt use this unit without smaller AA units such as whirbles and Ostis. and since when does it HAVE to have the 30 perks of a tiger? you can easily put a 10 perk price on this

Edit: by the way... this wont even be implemented into the game. but they can put other 88 installations in nemesis, not just this. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 01:55:13 PM
Lol, I think your overestimating the tactical prowess of some of our players. Some will have wirbs and osties along no doubt, but a good many will think that with the puffy AA, they have nothing to worry about.


And I place survivability very high on the list of importance. If it can be killed by an M8 at 2000yds, then, IMO, it doesn't need even a perk price of 10, maybe a base price of 4 or 5 at most.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 11, 2010, 02:05:30 PM
Lol, I think your overestimating the tactical prowess of some of our players. Some will have wirbs and osties along no doubt, but a good many will think that with the puffy AA, they have nothing to worry about.


And I place survivability very high on the list of importance. If it can be killed by an M8 at 2000yds, then, IMO, it doesn't need even a perk price of 10, maybe a base price of 4 or 5 at most.
it has the armor of a whirble and the gun of a tiger... hmm...
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 02:11:11 PM
ok, ok... disabled by an M8 at 2000yds. I still think that (hypotheticly speaking of course) this would be upped by a single guy thinking he'll do some quick damage, and scoot back to base before anyone ups a tank.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 11, 2010, 02:13:32 PM
ok, ok... disabled by an M8 at 2000yds. I still think that (hypotheticly speaking of course) this would be upped by a single guy thinking he'll do some quick damage, and scoot back to base before anyone ups a tank.
so youre saying the guy is the same noob who thinks that constantly upping fireflies at a base where a tiger is killing him over and over again before he can shoot? cuz i remember that guy... he wasnt too smart to stand in front of my gun 9 times
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 02:28:25 PM
IDK, if he is then he must be rook, which means I don't kill him. Most of the guys I bump into either quit after  5 deaths without getting a kill go get eggs, or scream for Dr7, 0nline or some other tanker who is better than the guys defending.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 02:41:31 PM
ok, ok... disabled by an M8 at 2000yds. I still think that (hypotheticly speaking of course) this would be upped by a single guy thinking he'll do some quick damage, and scoot back to base before anyone ups a tank.
 

I dont think an m8 has enough power to even tow an 88. lol
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 02:52:15 PM
No, it couldn't tow an '88. But its cannon could puch through the thin turret armor, killing the crew. Hell, I've turreted a wirb by shooting its turret with my coaxil MG.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 03:00:03 PM
I never said that.  I said I could see this being used as a mobile AA vehicle, mobile direct artillery vehicle and a mobile anti-tank gun.  Which believe it or not, was the intended use of the Grille 10 88mm Flak 41.  However, it is a rather moot point since none of the Grille 10s made it beyong the prototype stage, with only a single prototype seeing action in Italy where it was sent to be evaluated under combat conditions.

ack-ack

The gun used on the vehicle in my photo is a flak 37. Its just and improved version of the flak 36. The flak 36 was initially intended for AA use until they found out how well it worked against armour. Most flak 37, if not all where capable of AA or anti-tank uses. That gun on your vehicle was an example of "if it isnt broke, don't fix it".
The flak 41 is a pile as far as im concerned. I suppose you could split hairs on this all day though. I have no idea what that thing in your photo was designed to do.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 03:01:34 PM
No, it couldn't tow an '88. But its cannon could puch through the thin turret armor, killing the crew. Hell, I've turreted a wirb by shooting its turret with my coaxil MG.

Oh, I got ya. <S> But like anything else, with some support it could be usefull.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 03:09:27 PM
IMO, its bread and butter would be as a self propelled AT gun. Take a shot from cover (and if you are good, you likely won't need a second), then scoot to a new possition. Given the height of the gun, it should be able to fire over hedge rows as well.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 03:11:15 PM
IMO, its bread and butter would be as a self propelled AT gun. Take a shot from cover (and if you are good, you likely won't need a second), then scoot to a new possition. Given the height of the gun, it should be able to fire over hedge rows as well.

We have that already, its a Tiger tank.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 03:16:42 PM
Tigers can't quite fire over a hedgerow. And the Tiger has the armor to slug things out with anything but another tiger or a firefly. It seems to have reclaimed at least some of its "king of the battlefield" status, with the decline of firefly usage.



Also, anyone some information on it? I've done looking, but I can't seem to come up with anything worth while.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 11, 2010, 04:26:45 PM
The gun used on the vehicle in my photo is a flak 37. Its just and improved version of the flak 36. The flak 36 was initially intended for AA use until they found out how well it worked against armour. Most flak 37, if not all where capable of AA or anti-tank uses. That gun on your vehicle was an example of "if it isnt broke, don't fix it".
The flak 41 is a pile as far as im concerned. I suppose you could split hairs on this all day though. I have no idea what that thing in your photo was designed to do.

The Grille 10 88mm Flak 41 was intended to serve in the same role as the Grille 10 88mm Flak 37.  

In late 1942, three prototypes were made (Grille 10 88mm Flak 37) and in 1944, re-armed with the 88 Flak 41 and renamed Grille 10 88mm Flak 41.  In my previous post, I mentioned that a single prototype of the Grille 10 88mm Flak 41 was sent to Italy for evaluation, reading further on the Grille 10 it was actually a Grille 10 88mm Flak 37 that had been reconverted to that type after being converted to the Flak 41.  Don't know why the Germans decided to re-arm one of the prototypes with the Flak 37 after converting it to a Flak 41 before sending it to Italy.  In any case, none of the Grilles saw combat which is unfortunate because they did have some very interesting Grille models, though some like the Grille 21 only carried 3 rounds with it.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 05:23:52 PM
Too bad they didn't take this past the prototype stage. As with the Stuer Emil and Semovente 90/53, it could have proved very usefull had more been produced.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 06:43:02 PM
Too bad they didn't take this past the prototype stage. As with the Stuer Emil and Semovente 90/53, it could have proved very usefull had more been produced.

Just give us towed 88's. They made over 10,000 of em.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: lyric1 on August 11, 2010, 06:48:49 PM
Just give us towed 88's.
What came first the chicken or the egg?
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: jamdive on August 11, 2010, 07:33:14 PM
What came first the chicken or the egg?

Whats your point?
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 10:08:06 PM
What do you propose we use to tow them? The SdKfz 251 or the M3, neither of which could tow an '88?


And how should we impliment this? Should we require someone else to tow them, or should we let them spawn a truck or hauler with an '88 attached, which they can hop over to? I suppose the second option is viable, since we can already change possitions instanly in tanks.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: 321BAR on August 11, 2010, 11:06:17 PM
What do you propose we use to tow them? The SdKfz 251 or the M3, neither of which could tow an '88?


And how should we impliment this? Should we require someone else to tow them, or should we let them spawn a truck or hauler with an '88 attached, which they can hop over to? I suppose the second option is viable, since we can already change possitions instanly in tanks.
simple (well complex coading but simple in planning) add a generic gun tractor to tow the 88 to a position and allow the tractor to stay nearby unless destroyed so within a certain time period you can press a button and reattach the two and tow it again... this can be done for any AT guns... one person, two pieces
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 11, 2010, 11:11:44 PM
One problem I see is that a hauler sitting out in the open (and unless you can drive it around after unhitching the gun, this will happen at times) will be a dead give away of a towed gun in the nearest cover. People will be more aleart and may spot you before you have a shot (some guns are lower than others, and some may not be able to arch a round over some hedges). IDK if HTC could make it so you could unhitch the gun, and then go stash the hauler in a barn or in some trees 100yds away, and then switch to your gun.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 12, 2010, 01:17:41 AM
What do you propose we use to tow them? The SdKfz 251 or the M3, neither of which could tow an '88?


Why would neither of them be able to tow a German 88mm?  Have you seen what the Sd.Kfz.7 tow vehicle looked like?  It was basically the German version of the M3 half track.

(http://img.over-blog.com/596x358/0/39/65/84/july-2007/7-copie-1.jpg)

(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/brazil/Bra-SdKfz7.jpg)


ack-ack
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Ghosth on August 12, 2010, 07:34:08 AM
I agree with Ackack, where did you get the opinion then neither of the 2 halftracks would be capable of towing an 88?

Proof please.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 12, 2010, 02:24:14 PM
OK, well what I said isn't entirely true. I've read that the SdKfz 251 could tow the '88 but at not fast enough to keep up with the panzers. Not really an effective way to keep the AA guns up near the front.

For the M3, I remembered reading its engine was only around 90 HP, compared to its actual 147. The squad and i were taking about the vickers 6ton tank, so I probably pulled the 90hp from that conversation. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Rino on August 12, 2010, 02:29:41 PM
     Think the only AAA guns "up near the front" were alot smaller than 88mm.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 12, 2010, 02:34:58 PM
Yes, actually up at the front, asside from any guns stuck in a blockhouse for AT work. But you need something bigger than a 37mm to hit B-24's flying at 15k, trying to smash up your supply depot 5miles back of the lines. Won't do you much good if all the large AA guns are 30 miles back, and some bomber come by over head.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 12, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
OK, well what I said isn't entirely true. I've read that the SdKfz 251 could tow the '88 but at not fast enough to keep up with the panzers. Not really an effective way to keep the AA guns up near the front.

For the M3, I remembered reading its engine was only around 90 HP, compared to its actual 147. The squad and i were taking about the vickers 6ton tank, so I probably pulled the 90hp from that conversation. Sorry about that.

What you said isn't true at all.  Whatever sources you used to come to this conclusion were wrong.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: Nemisis on August 12, 2010, 06:36:42 PM
OK, thanks for straitening me out. Any recomended sites for research?
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: lyric1 on August 12, 2010, 07:14:00 PM
Never mind.
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: DeViouS1 on August 12, 2010, 07:44:36 PM
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ec2b2d4c0d7564cf748239e1cf9b15d96g.jpg)

HTC could you get me this thing to use on airjer?
It would greatly reduce my eggtard deaths.


+1,000,000,000
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: StokesAk on August 12, 2010, 08:08:00 PM
What you said isn't true at all.  Whatever sources you used to come to this conclusion were wrong.

ack-ack
:rofl
Title: Re: Mobile 88mm flak
Post by: SmokinLoon on August 12, 2010, 08:08:59 PM
I had forgotten about this, my great uncle was telling me how he he had these used on him....

+1 for the 88mm

This is one of the stories my grandfather spoke of in WWII.  

My grandfather was a jeep jockey for an arty unit in WWII and shuttled stuff between the arty units and the front lines "hundreds of times".  One particular trip to the front a major he was driving told him to "cut through that area on this route".   Grandpa had been ordered to stay out of there because it was not fully cleared and secured yet, but the major insisted and ordered grandpa to drive anyways because it was shorter.  A few miles down the route and the road came alive from 88' fire.  Grandpa claimed no one had ever taken the jeep to that level of performance previously, he went in and out of ditches, plowed into trees, went slalom, and airborne a few times weaving in and out of obstacles and through the ditches back onto the road.  He was showered with gravel and twigs and other debris for a "half mile or so".  Once clear of the fire, that was the only time he disrespected an officer and told him how he felt.  The major was not a happy camper either and actually apologized and gave praise to Tech Sgt Robert Bennett.