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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:06:03 AM

Title: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:06:03 AM
I could not sleep, so I logged in here and then went the arena for a few quick flights at 0020 Eastern.

The late war arenas were 140/100 Orange and 98/150 blue.  Why at such a late hour and with less than 250 players wanting to fly late war are we still being forced into two arenas?  I was curious as to when the arena balance would shift, so I kept trying trying.... 130/100, 97/150...  120/100, 95/150...  110/100, 92/150.... then finally 98/100, 95/150.  45 minutes for this transition.

I do not get the forced balance when early and mid war were capable of up to 350 each but had only 5 and 12 players respectively.  Two WW1 with 6/100 and 0/100, AvA 1/200, Dueling 40/200, and 0/650 0/650 special event arenas. The hint I would take away from this is that customer wants do not match HTC desires.  Players want to fly late war and HTC resources might need balancing, not the players.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 12:10:05 AM
I do not get the forced balance when early and mid war were capable of up to 350 each but had only 5 and 12 players respectively.  Two WW1 with 6/100 and 0/100, AvA 1/200, Dueling 40/200, and 0/650 0/650 special event arenas. The hint I would take away from this is that customer wants do not match HTC desires.  Players want to fly late war and HTC resources might need balancing, not the players.

Those arenas have nothing to do with LW arena caps and do not use any resources in that regard.

(And by the way, at times the SEA has more players than each LW arena ;) )
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:15:15 AM
Those arenas have nothing to do with LW arena caps and do not use any resources in that regard.

(And by the way, at times the SEA has more players than each LW arena ;) )

Sure they do.  On one hand HTC is OK with up to 350 people in one arena with no choice to split.  And in the case of LW, the plan is, "we must force them to split" even when their total numbers are less than 250.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Sure they do.  On one hand HTC is OK with up to 350 people in one arena with no choice to split.  And in the case of LW, the plan is, "we must force them to split" even when there total numbers are less than 250.

There are never more than a handful of people in those arenas you mentioned so why does it even matter what the displayed max number is?  If those arenas accrued hundreds of players/night, don't you think it would be capped just the same?
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 12:18:57 AM
Both LW caps are influenced only by each other, nothing else. If there are 5, or 50 or 100 players in EW doesn't matter at all for them.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:25:02 AM
Both LW caps are influenced only by each other, nothing else. If there are 5, or 50 or 100 players in EW doesn't matter at all for them.

I'm just using the other arenas to illustrate that the servers are capable of much more.  I'm not talking about 800 like on TT Tueday.  I'm just asking why force it below 200 or 250 caps that late at night.  Who cares if all LW players that late are in one arena?
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 12:37:07 AM
I'm just using the other arenas to illustrate that the servers are capable of much more.  I'm not talking about 800 like on TT Tueday.  I'm just asking why force it below 200 or 250 caps that late at night.  Who cares if all LW players that late are in one arena?

It's not about server resources, it's a kind of gameplay environment decision. You might do search for arena split and/or arena cap to find one of the myriad threads about it.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:43:32 AM
There are never more than a handful of people in those arenas

And yet another hint......
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:48:22 AM
It's not about server resources, it's a kind of gameplay environment decision. You might do search for arena split and/or arena cap to find one of the myriad threads about it.

It is about server resources to me.  Most hours of the day the caps are 200-300 and the environemt is deemed fine.  I'm just confused as to why that changes late night of all times.

I have been around a long time sir and have read almost most all of them.  I still find it silly  :)
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 12:55:23 AM
Now at 0150 Eastern the LW arenas are 95/400 and 45/400.

Back to my OP, resources need balancing at times, not players.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: AAJagerX on August 12, 2010, 01:19:13 AM
I think it was Snailman who had a decent fix idea for late caps.  It was combining the arenas to a Titanic Tues. type map for a certain period late at night (U.S. time), then switching back to the two arenas prior to peak hours. 

Seems reasonable to me.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Ghastly on August 12, 2010, 09:09:27 AM
Now at 0150 Eastern the LW arenas are 95/400 and 45/400.

Back to my OP, resources need balancing at times, not players.

No, you're not getting it.  Regardless of what it is to you, Hitech (I believe it was) once said that the server utilization is running only a few percent at peak times no matter how many players are in the arena. 

It's SOLELY a result of game play considerations.

<S>
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Shuffler on August 12, 2010, 09:57:18 AM
So what is the complaint. You don't like numbers?/


I thought you logged on to fly..... why all of a sudden did you start watching numbers? You could have been flying.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Rhah on August 12, 2010, 10:00:04 AM
You could just play in Blue :noid
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: StokesAk on August 12, 2010, 12:18:41 PM
You could just play in Blue :noid

Or instead of wasting your time clicking buttons and reading number, you could just go to sleep and log on at 7am to get your spot in LWOrange the next day.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2010, 12:25:57 PM
Now at 0150 Eastern the LW arenas are 95/400 and 45/400.

Back to my OP, resources need balancing at times, not players.

Okay Money, Print this out, laminate it, and keep it close to you cuz this will help with your cap problems.

-Caps are in effect between 12:00 CST PM - 12:00 CST AM
-Caps in the higher numbered arena will bump up an addtional 100 players in capacity when the other arena becomes 70% filled

So if you are looking to get into a capped arena, see how many players are in the other one and how full it is.  Going to the arena actually will help fill it up more.  When it gets above 70%, you can leave it and go to the other arena.

If you log on before noon cst or midnight cst you will never have to worry about caps.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Traveler on August 12, 2010, 01:22:45 PM
Okay Money, Print this out, laminate it, and keep it close to you cuz this will help with your cap problems.

-Caps are in effect between 12:00 CST PM - 12:00 CST AM
-Caps in the higher numbered arena will bump up an addtional 100 players in capacity when the other arena becomes 70% filled

So if you are looking to get into a capped arena, see how many players are in the other one and how full it is.  Going to the arena actually will help fill it up more.  When it gets above 70%, you can leave it and go to the other arena.

If you log on before noon cst or midnight cst you will never have to worry about caps.

How do you know when an arena gets above 70% if you are already in an arena?  you have to get out of an arena to view the arena numbers, right?
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 01:56:16 PM
How do you know when an arena gets above 70% if you are already in an arena? 

Rightclick on map, country status.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2010, 02:18:31 PM
How do you know when an arena gets above 70% if you are already in an arena?  you have to get out of an arena to view the arena numbers, right?


I just make a mental note of the listed arena capacity before I enter then I add up the chess piece roster tallies and divide by the max number.  If it's greater than .70 I leave and go to pink.  It works everytime.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 12, 2010, 03:45:04 PM
How do you know when an arena gets above 70% if you are already in an arena?  you have to get out of an arena to view the arena numbers, right?


Does it matter?  You don't want to be in that arena anyway.  Enter.  Exit and check.  Repeat.  Same as refreshing the Main Entry screen but it actually effects the numbers and whether you can get into the closed arena or not.

As far as I can tell, the OP's problem is there is two, balanced arenas instead of everyone in the same arena.  A veiled "no caps" whine?

For what it's worth RE: "resources", if the numbers get high enough in MW or EW, there will be more than a single arena for "game play" reasons.


wrongway
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Traveler on August 12, 2010, 04:06:24 PM
Rightclick on map, country status.

 Not sure how Country Status tells me what the percentage of the CAP is or even what the current CAP is.  The CAP might have changed after I went into an arena up or down.  How does country status tell me what the cap is currently in a different arena, or even the one I"m in?
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Lusche on August 12, 2010, 04:21:03 PM
Not sure how Country Status tells me what the percentage of the CAP is or even what the current CAP is.  The CAP might have changed after I went into an arena up or down.  How does country status tell me what the cap is currently in a different arena, or even the one I"m in?

By doing what Grizz said.

When Blue is at 170/250 and you want to go to orange, you know that Blue needs to get to 175 to raise the Orange cap. Now just check the country status when being in blue.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Traveler on August 12, 2010, 05:14:05 PM
By doing what Grizz said.

When Blue is at 170/250 and you want to go to orange, you know that Blue needs to get to 175 to raise the Orange cap. Now just check the country status when being in blue.


I guess as a general rule that will work, however, you don't know that 50 people didn't just leave orange and blue to go to FSO.  Your assumption is that the CAPS are always on the rise.  The only thing the Country Stats tells you is, well, the stats for the  country you are in.  We are stuck with CAPs System, except on Tuesday night, HTC could alter the Country Stats page to actually show the current CAPS for each Arena. 
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2010, 05:26:55 PM
I guess as a general rule that will work, however, you don't know that 50 people didn't just leave orange and blue to go to FSO.  Your assumption is that the CAPS are always on the rise.  The only thing the Country Stats tells you is, well, the stats for the  country you are in.  We are stuck with CAPs System, except on Tuesday night, HTC could alter the Country Stats page to actually show the current CAPS for each Arena. 

Blah.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: uptown on August 12, 2010, 05:51:49 PM
I think it was Snailman who had a decent fix idea for late caps.  It was combining the arenas to a Titanic Tues. type map for a certain period late at night (U.S. time), then switching back to the two arenas prior to peak hours. 

Seems reasonable to me.
+1
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: TnDep on August 12, 2010, 06:57:37 PM
I say we need more players through advertising and obviously advertising through commercials is the wrong way to go about getting long time customers for this type of game (ex. we see commercials but no increase in players)  if we had several thousand of pilots on at one time you would have multiple arenas in the 100's of players say 5 arenas max at 300 ect. ect.

Few Ideas for HTC to consider

            *  Double opt in marketing through email which would target interrested people in aircraft,wwii, ect. (this would target people over 40 years of age for the most part)

            * Design a smaller yet free edition to the full paid addition to AH and place on Facebook as an application ( this would target people under 40 for the most part and would be a very powerful recruiting tool) 

these are just 2 ideas but my point is this type of game needs this type of advertising to grow substantially
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: rvflyer on August 12, 2010, 08:31:45 PM
I say we need more players through advertising and obviously advertising through commercials is the wrong way to go about getting long time customers for this type of game (ex. we see commercials but no increase in players)  if we had several thousand of pilots on at one time you would have multiple arenas in the 100's of players say 5 arenas max at 300 ect. ect.

Few Ideas for HTC to consider

            *  Double opt in marketing through email which would target interrested people in aircraft,wwii, ect. (this would target people over 40 years of age for the most part)

            * Design a smaller yet free edition to the full paid addition to AH and place on Facebook as an application ( this would target people under 40 for the most part and would be a very powerful recruiting tool) 

these are just 2 ideas but my point is this type of game needs this type of advertising to grow substantially


 :airplane: Not picking on your post TnDep just using it to reply, I have an idea, why not let HTC run THEIR GAME as they see fit to do. If players don't like it they either leave or play the game as Dale
intends it to be played. I see so much  :cry  here because the game is not played the way someone wants it to be played. Players can vote with their money either pay or don't.
the CAP thing has been explained over and over but still people come here and  :cry. I will say TnDep I really don't think it is up to a player to tell HTC wheather they need to advertise or not, that is their choice
and their call. Yes it would be a disappointment if it goes away but we will all survive.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 08:38:15 PM
Print this out, laminate it, and keep it close to you cuz this will help with your cap problems.
<deleted some stuff>
If you log on before noon cst or midnight cst you will never have to worry about caps.

Grizzy-poo....

Print my OP, laminate it, and keep it close to you cuz it will help with your perception that I am you.

You are lucky to have employment that allows you to log on when it is best for HTC's plan.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 08:53:41 PM
Or instead of wasting your time clicking buttons and reading number, you could just go to sleep and log on at 7am to get your spot in LWOrange the next day.

Wow, you know what, you are right!  Your plan is a much better than mine.  I planned to work my bellybutton off the next day, come home, spend time with my family, and try to wedge in an hour to play a game I really enjoy with whatever time I have left over.

Forgive me for not wanting to jump through the same hoops you are willing to jump through to play a game. 
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Baine on August 12, 2010, 08:57:10 PM

It's SOLELY a result of game play considerations.

<S>

Not sure what the "gameplay" considerations are when numbers get this low. Force people to fly around looking for fights in unpopulated arenas? I agree with Money. Another example of some arbitrary rule making the game less fun for the people who pay to play it.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: kvuo75 on August 12, 2010, 09:10:59 PM
Not sure what the "gameplay" considerations are when numbers get this low. Force people to fly around looking for fights in unpopulated arenas? I agree with Money. Another example of some arbitrary rule making the game less fun for the people who pay to play it.

so, 98 people is "unpopulated"?

I think about 30-50 each side is about right, especially on a small map.



I don't know what people think they're missing in the arena with 150 people vs. the one with 90. really.. I cannot figure it out..



Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Dace on August 12, 2010, 09:18:25 PM

I don't know what people think they're missing in the arena with 150 people vs. the one with 90. really.. I cannot figure it out..




60 more people=roughly 40 more targets. How's that?
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: TnDep on August 12, 2010, 11:50:44 PM

 :airplane: Not picking on your post TnDep just using it to reply, I have an idea, why not let HTC run THEIR GAME as they see fit to do. If players don't like it they either leave or play the game as Dale
intends it to be played. I see so much  :cry  here because the game is not played the way someone wants it to be played. Players can vote with their money either pay or don't.
the CAP thing has been explained over and over but still people come here and  :cry. I will say TnDep I really don't think it is up to a player to tell HTC wheather they need to advertise or not, that is their choice
and their call. Yes it would be a disappointment if it goes away but we will all survive.


my post was opinion oriented, never once did I say tell htc my quote was "Few Ideas for HTC" Dale said if he could have 5000 players he would point is why they are advertising.

The reason for this post is that the only late war arena he could get in had 90 people and we've all been in there when theres not much action.  The only fix for this is we need more players.

Every great invention or idea started with one mans dream, determination, experimentation, hypothesis, ect.  As long as the person offering the suggestion is polite and respectful, htc welcomes this and one of the reasons why we have this forum to discuss different ideas and suggestions.

Do you think every change in this game was made strictly by htc? or did they take ideas from players of the game?

Think outside of the box alittle, offering positive suggestions is only going to make us bigger and stronger
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 12, 2010, 11:59:38 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: HatTrick on August 13, 2010, 12:07:09 AM
As someone new to the game, I have to agree with the OP.  Late night in Blue sucks.  It may show 90 people in the room but usually almost half of them are afk or not in the air.  It's just generally slow action.  When the game is busy, this is by far the most fun I've had in an online sim and that goes back to the hey day of Fighter Ace when it was magical to me.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: kvuo75 on August 13, 2010, 08:24:50 AM
60 more people=roughly 40 more targets. How's that?

you gonna fight all 40 at the same time?

Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Lusche on August 13, 2010, 09:31:38 AM
you gonna fight all 40 at the same time?



While fun isn't directly related to numbers...

More player generally means more combat opportunities. More players = more possible variations in gameplay. More often means more action densitiy, instead of just a single dot here and there.

Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: AWwrgwy on August 13, 2010, 09:59:20 AM
so, 98 people is "unpopulated"?

I think about 30-50 each side is about right, especially on a small map.



I don't know what people think they're missing in the arena with 150 people vs. the one with 90. really.. I cannot figure it out..


+1


60 more people=roughly 40 more targets. How's that?

This begs the question, how many people are you flying with?

The game is what you make of it.  Can't find a fight?  Take three or four like minded souls and attack a base.  Start to deack it.  If no one ups, start taking down the town.  Maybe take the field.

Stir things up and they will come.

Or, are we just looking for a hord to fight our hord?

I enjoy the irony between the "can't find a fight" and "can't find a one-on-one" crowds.


wrongway
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: grizz441 on August 13, 2010, 10:41:32 AM
you gonna fight all 40 at the same time?



30-40 on each side does not mean all 30-40 are in flight.  There are usually 5-10 afkers, 5-10 gvers, and 20 actually cons spread across the map, possibly fighting the other country.  90 in an arena is not enough for quality sustainable gameplay imo.  60-70 per side is needed.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: TnDep on August 13, 2010, 01:09:29 PM
30-40 on each side does not mean all 30-40 are in flight.  There are usually 5-10 afkers, 5-10 gvers, and 20 actually cons spread across the map, possibly fighting the other country.  90 in an arena is not enough for quality sustainable gameplay imo.  60-70 per side is needed.

that was my point of some different advertising techniques and I get called out for crying  :D Just offering some positive suggestions for recruiting but I agree with your assessment of sustainable gameplay 90 players is not enough 200-250 is almost perfect.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Dace on August 13, 2010, 08:44:37 PM

+1


This begs the question, how many people are you flying with?

The game is what you make of it.  Can't find a fight?  Take three or four like minded souls and attack a base.  Start to deack it.  If no one ups, start taking down the town.  Maybe take the field.

Stir things up and they will come.

Or, are we just looking for a hord to fight our hord?

I enjoy the irony between the "can't find a fight" and "can't find a one-on-one" crowds.


wrongway

I was illustrating the difference between 90 and 150. Never did I say "can't find a fight" or "cant' find a one on one". I think grizz put it best, "90 players is not enough for quality sustainable gameplay". On a big map 150 is barely enough. When a big map has 90 players, 20 from each side are in the middle of the map in a big glob and the other 10 from each side are running circles around the map trying to stay away form each other. So, you can either take your 4 like minded buddies to the big glob, or you can try to chase the "other 10" who will move there attack to the other side of the map at the first sign of resistance.
Title: Re: This Mornings Arena Caps
Post by: Money on August 13, 2010, 08:56:52 PM
30-40 on each side does not mean all 30-40 are in flight.  There are usually 5-10 afkers, 5-10 gvers, and 20 actually cons spread across the map, possibly fighting the other country.  90 in an arena is not enough for quality sustainable gameplay imo.  60-70 per side is needed.

 :aok