Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: SPKmes on August 24, 2010, 02:00:36 PM
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Ok guys, what's the secret..The guys who know me will know who I'm asking this of.....Over the years what have you done to improve yours ...I have tried and tried but my guns ability is still very lacking
Do you guys have any tips or hints ..... This is frustrating me to no end .... I still have much to improve on in all areas of the game but in the grand scheme of things gunnery is falling behind/stagnated compared to other improved areas during my time here..
:cheers:
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What he said,,,any tips would be very helpfull. i seem to overlead too much or something to that nature.
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how big is your monitor and what resolution are you running?
I would say anything over 22" should be enough.
You have to apply different tactics to every weapon tongs. Convergences set to how you anticipate the type of fighting you will be doing. Slower turn fighters I tend to set closer in.
You have zoom toggle mapped? I use this to A) see what a con is doing a good 1.5-2k out and 400+ shots are done zoomed in.
Page up over the nose for a slightly better view on deflection shots. Use a gunsight your happy with. I use the 'borsight' dot. Have tracers on but do not fire unless you know it is a good close shot. If you happen to miss you can quickly adjust.
For small accurate adjustments make sure your stick is smooth and if you have pedals I would say it is easier to control / snapshoot. Seperate your triggers so cannons are on a secondary trigger. If you get someone at 600 odd in a spit pepper them with MG only they will usually panic and turn in. Then nail em with hispano.
Some convergences I use;
303: <200
50cal: 300-400
20mm: 400 on fast rides 300 in my spit.
Get close, then when you think your close enough get closer then shoot.
"good flying never killed an enemy yet"
Just try and anticipate where they are going to be rather than where they are.
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In my opinion, gunnery shows who out flew whom; skilled Air Combat Maneuvering and good Situational Awareness will put you in position to fire your guns to good effect and let your opponent know that you did, indeed, "out-fly" him.
Fly to your opponent's six, get very, very close, and fire...
You can play with convergences and gunsites all you want, but nothing beats good ACM combined with good SA.
Just some thoughts...
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I have/do all of the above excepting the large monitor .....
I will play around with my convergence some more but generally I am set at about 300 - 450 ride dependent..
In the Ki I have 20's at 450 (straight shooter so not too much issue really) and MG's at 350....most of my shots that hit are at the 400 mark or less. 600 is my usual in the 50's planes P40/51...
Just try and anticipate where they are going to be rather than where they are.
I think this is where I am failing big time
I just feel I'm missing something...not doing something in my lead process. When I review film I am always just under over over or to the side...working out the formula for contact is just not there
My sight is the jabo 2 sight, just a couple of dots..
"good flying never killed an enemy yet"
Sometimes it does hahaha
I'll just keep on then...I have to change something though because it is the same mistake over and over I think
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In my opinion, gunnery shows who out flew whom; skilled Air Combat Maneuvering and good Situational Awareness will put you in position to fire your guns to good effect and let your opponent know that you did, indeed, "out-fly" him.
Fly to your opponent's six, get very, very close, and fire...
You can play with convergences and gunsites all you want, but nothing beats good ACM combined with good SA.
Just some thoughts...
Good ACM/SA only do so much if you can't hit the broadside of a barn.
ack-ack
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In my opinion, gunnery shows who out flew whom; skilled Air Combat Maneuvering and good Situational Awareness will put you in position to fire your guns to good effect and let your opponent know that you did, indeed, "out-fly" him.
Fly to your opponent's six, get very, very close, and fire...
You can play with convergences and gunsites all you want, but nothing beats good ACM combined with good SA.
Just some thoughts...
I can saddle a con OK...I just can't hit them with consistency
I have a better chance at running them into the ground than shooting them...many times this is the tactic I turn to....once you get a few guys on you and the frenzy starts it is easy....
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I have the same problem I think alot of mine is due to lag though, right when I'm about to shoot they warp 50% of the time.
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I was in the same lousy gunnery boat as you for a looong time. About a month ago I started trying to spend a little bit of time each day shooting the drones. I take shots from every which angle until I can kill the drone in one shot, under any circumstances.
Then I turned tracers off. With tracers on I would find myself focusing on the tracers, rather than aiming with the gunsight. With tracers off I had to use the gunsight to aim and my gunnery instantly improved. I would probably leave them on if I flew something like a 109K4 with it's Mk108.
Within the past few weeks every aspect of my flying has improved because I can hit more reliably.
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Get closer before you shoot. Fire as close to convergence as possible.
Setting your convergence to 350-400 isn't close. Firing at that range isn't "saddled up" or "close" IMO. Shots on an icon of D400 can be out almost 600yds. Shots on a D600 icon can be out as far 798yds. That's god-awful far. That's desperation shooting.
I'd recommend a convergence of 275-300. I'd recommend shooting when you see the icon counter switch from D400-D200 (which is actually right at 300yds). I'd leave your tracers on.
A convergence of 275-300 is effective on shots at bombers out to 600yds. I still wouldn't open up on them until around the D400 mark.
I'm using a 17" monitor, and in general furballing I can hold 12-15% hit percentage. You don't need a big monitor to be accurate.
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Almost identical to Cactus's post are ones by Delirium, who is one of the few guys in game who can shoot >10-15% over a whole tour (100+ sorties). I've seen some awesome results from guys who've stuck with offline practice on the drones. You just have to be consistant and take a variety of shots.
Also if you search back in the posts on this forum there's instructions for turning on the lead computing gunsight offline which can help develop your sight picture. And for more bang for your buck you can multiply the amount of ammo you start out with. Helps big time to avoid a lot of bailing and take offs.
If drones get boring you can pop into the TA and it's either ctrl+tab or just tab to turn on 'friendly lock'. Which is just the lead computing gunsight. If you ask nicely someone will let you chase them around while seeing how the little arrows move in a variety of maneuvers.
PS- Drone shooting isn't something you need to bore yourself with for hours on end, just 10-20 mins before logging onto the main arena will really help.
Good luck :aok
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Mtnman nailed it, try closing to 200 before you let yourself shoot.
MG's especially do much more damage at close range close to convergience than out farther.
Snapshots and deflection shooting is mostly a matter of practice.
But the dead 6 shot that should be a killer is actually a quite small target compared to a crossing shot.
Also I'd say stick with 1 set of guns till you truly have them mastered. Be it 6 .50's or cannons.
Jumping ships too often just makes it harder.
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I can saddle a con OK...I just can't hit them with consistency
I have a better chance at running them into the ground than shooting them...many times this is the tactic I turn to....once you get a few guys on you and the frenzy starts it is easy....
i have this problem when i manage to saddle up.
i spent nearly 3 minutes behind a c202 the other night. i'd get lucky hits here and there, but could never give that one death blow.........and god help me if they go straight n level.....i throw airballs at em all night then.
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Muzzy's GunQuest(tm): A history of a noob trying to figure out how to shoot.
1. In offline mode, with tracers on, take deflection shots at the drones (coming in at angles while turning). You will discover that the bullets will curve and drop in ridiculous amounts. Solution: Unload G. That is, straighten out, fire ahead of the target and let it fly into your guns. Shooting while pulling g's is very very difficult.
2. In the TA: Up a 6x .50 caliber plane. Set the convergence at 400. In radio: type .target 400. A range target will appear due north of your plane. Hit autopilot and shoot. Zoom in (hit z) and look at where the bullets have landed. now type .target 200. Pick a clean spot on the target to aim at and fire again. The bullets might be landing differently this time. Try it at 500. Now do this exercise with your favorite aircraft. Try different convergence settings. If you have a mix of guns, fire one type first, then the second. You'll see that the bullets will sometimes land higher or lower than your aiming point, or they may look scattered. Try and keep this information in mind while in combat and fire accordingly.
3. In the TA: hit ctrl Tab, activating the lead target sight. Close on a willing training partner and use the tab key to lock the sight on him. Note how much lead you really need to pull to hit a turning target. Practice shooting each other with the lead gunsight.
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I don't chop and change my ride that much at all...My staple is the Ki61.....for a bit of a change I will up a P40 or 51....and as base defender Highly capped field) I use the spit5..My 50's aim is better but I'm so used to conserving rounds I never hold the trigger long enough...
It is the fact that I have been using one plane for 97% of my sorties for at least 12 tours (air that is) and my gunnery has just not improved....why? I'm picking I have taught myself wrong and continue on the same path...
I will practice more offline....and the TA.......and perhaps a few of the offline missions as this will give a little variance in regard to shots needed...The TA is a hard one because often when I'm on the TA is empty.
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Here's an idea that may or may not apply to you, since you say that you can saddle up OK.
Some people have a tendency to aim slightly high of their target on straight forward shots, unconsciously trying to allow for bullet drop that isn't there. Same thing with crossing shots, they miss two ways: with lead and the phantom drop that isn't really there. Your convergence setting has already accounted for the drop, but your brain is thinking too much.
Another thing is to be conscious of any drift. That ball on the bottom of many gun sights is there for a reason, so "step on the ball" to straighten up and fly right. Try a little right rudder if you're at full throttle and see if that tightens up your shots.
Good luck!
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I am an avid waterfoul hunter. I am quite proficient at dispatching ducks from all angles with a 12ga shotgun. For some reason the angles don't translate over to the game so well. Add to that the nose bounce from my stick etc, makes my gunnery suck arse. I have noticed from quite a few ah films that the guys using the CH gear are smooth as glass. Does the stick itself make a lot of difference?
I am using a Saitek X45 & CH pro peds. Stick scaling is Ack-Acks stick scaling. I am flying less & less because of my pizz poor shooting. :mad:
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hey Rolex things I've never considered
Thank you sir :aok
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I think that is part of my issue...thinking too much....many has been the time that I will fire by reflex/gut..in the back mind thinking this won't work, only to nail it...and then when I am thinking about my shot (trying to replicate an earlier shot) placement too much I am totally tukka ....
Looking through this so far I have many things to look at ..... cheers for you input guys ....
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Woody stick and scaling can make a huge difference.
Learning to have one mode of input for getting behind a con, and another mode (steady freddy) for shooting with very small precise inputs may also help.
Lowering scaling just near the center may also help a bit, depending on the stick.
Mounting the stick where you can comfortably brace your arm while flying can be another thing that helps.
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And now a few words from the experts:
I fly close to my man, aim well and then of course he falls down.
— Captain Oswald Boelcke, probably the world's first ace.
Aerial gunnery is 90 percent instinct and 10 percent aim.
— Captain Frederick C. Libby, RFC.
I had no system of shooting as such. It is definitely more in the feeling side of things that these skills develop. I was at the front five and a half years, and you just got a feeling for the right amount of lead.
— Lt. General Guenther Rall, GAF.
You can have computer sights of anything you like, but I think you have to go to the enemy on the shortest distance and knock him down from point-blank range. You'll get him from in close. At long distance, it's questionable.
— Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF.
I am not a good shot. Few of us are. To make up for this I hold my fire until I have a shot of less than 20 degrees deflection and until I'm within 300 yards. Good discipline on this score can make up for a great deal.
— Lt. Colonel John C. Meyer, USAAF.
Go in close, and when you think you are too close, go in closer.
— Major Thomas B. 'Tommy' McGuire, USAAF.
I opened fire when the whole windshield was black with the enemy . . . at minimum range . . . it doesn't matter what your angle is to him or whether you are in a turn or any other maneuver.
— Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF.
The most important thing in fighting was shooting, next the various tactics in coming into a fight and last of all flying ability itself.
-- Lt. Colonel W. A. 'Billy' Bishop, RAF.
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I'm certainly not a super gunner yet, but I usually have my hit% in the high 6s and this camp the low 7s, which is, I think, better than average. I usually get 300 or less to shoot, and I usually try to set up crossing shots, where I can aim with the nose of my plane. I like to line my nose up where the bad guy's flight path will cross directly in front of it, at point blank range, and start shooting a second before that happens. The closer the better if you ask me. I can't much hit at all on longer shots, say 400 or more. I do hit the odd tater shot at long range, but not frequently. If I'm using deflection, I do try to shoot where they're going to be and not where they are. I think that makes a huge difference. Also, I use the dot gunsight, but I have the alpha turned just about all the way down, so it's essentially invisible. The sights just get in the way to me.
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I still cosider myself a rookie even after the first year! I would not say my gunnery has doubled, but has gotten mighty more better with with the CH stick! It does make a differance, almost like learning to fly all over again!
But with better planes, don't know if ya'll have seen the guy's fly inverted thru hangers? I would say(How the F--k do they do that?) Now I know! CH Products rule!
Misfire out,
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thx for the input, all of what was mentioned should be helpfull. off i go to offline mode to practice before the real deal.
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I still cosider myself a rookie even after the first year! I would not say my gunnery has doubled, but has gotten mighty more better with with the CH stick! It does make a differance, almost like learning to fly all over again!
But with better planes, don't know if ya'll have seen the guy's fly inverted thru hangers? I would say(How the F--k do they do that?) Now I know! CH Products rule!
Misfire out,
i love my ch stuff. it doesn't help me though. i went from a ms sidewinder force feedback with twisty grip to a full ch setup. the setup helped ma a little in the 38, but otherwise, i still basically suck.
and after about 5 years, i still think i'm a rookie.
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I have the same problem I think alot of mine is due to lag though, right when I'm about to shoot they warp 50% of the time.
I used to have that, a couple-three computers ago. The SOUND file of my own guns was causing pc to hiccup. Finally just deleted the sound file...not as realistic, but warps quit (I think it was an over-taxed laptop)
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Ever since I started playing in AW I've worked hard on perfecting snapshots and now they are my preferred shot. I've gotten very good over the years at judging lead and judging when a plane is going to cross my nose. The beauty of a snapshot is you hit an enemy in full profile. I take just a very short burst at the moment I believe I will hit and am usually right.
I also set most of my convergences to 650 yards with a few exceptions set to 400. I'll fire at 1000 yards, again short bursts, to get a guy to turn and have gotten kills at that distance, however, I don't like being saddled up on someone's six. Their plane profile is small and they are usually manouvering to try to avoid my shot attemps leading to a lot of wasted ammo, even using short bursts. I'll normally fire inside 400 when saddled up. I don't mind letting someone think I'm going to overshoot if I think they'll turn and allow me back into snapshot mode.
I have noticed that if I'm fighting from my enemy's six my hit rates drop from the 10-12% range into the 6-8% range although lately, with the minimal time I have available to play, all my stats have been suffering.
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My philosophy on gunnery: Only shoot when I have a 90% chance of hitting or when I have a 90% chance of dying if I don't hit. Convergence wise, I've always stuck with 400 for almost every plane, with nose-firing planes the only exception, and have gotten quite used to it. Over the course of a couple years that 90% chance of hitting category has increased immensely, simply because of the second desperation category. Through that you slowly learn what will hit and what won't, increasing your overall accuracy for non-desperate situations, i.e. the first category. With consistency to this philosophy, I think anyone's gunnery can improve greatly.
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You have to identify the problem first. Why is your aiming bad. Is it a bouncy nose, over shooting, undershooting, missing below, missing above, etc. After you identify specifically what you are struggling with, you'll be surprised how obvious the solution to the problem becomes.
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Wise words Grizz. :aok
1 thing you can do is strafe the ground and watch the pattern the bullets make. If your having a "nose bounce" problem and the rudder is to blame,you'll see a serpentine pattern or even something that looks like a question mark.
If the problem is the pitch axis,this is harder to see,but the use of the .target command can be used to check.
Then of course you can film your sorties and watch where your making your mistakes.
Once the problem is identified,as Grizz said, then you can develope drills to help or adjust your setup as the need may be.
:salute
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My main problem is over and/or undershooting...this could be nose to tail or wing to wing.....I have been working on a few things lately and am starting to get a feel.....Watching my films has helped but I have been doing this for some time hence the reason I know I am either long or short..I think sitting back and asking the question and have your input has made me aware of my issues rather than me knowing them and not listening to myself.....firing when I feel instead of when I think is also helping...I am still missing lots but I can actually notice an improvement...one thing though, although I feel I have stagnated in my gunnery using this ( http://www.major.geek.nz/AKUAG/Resources_Files/PilotStats.aspx ) it shows that I have, actually, had a continuous increase in my hit percentage....Not massive increases but steady...and that is all you can ask for IMO.
Not over compensating for bullet drop has probably had the greatest results so far.
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Wise words Grizz. :aok
1 thing you can do is strafe the ground and watch the pattern the bullets make. If your having a "nose bounce" problem and the rudder is to blame,you'll see a serpentine pattern or even something that looks like a question mark.
If the problem is the pitch axis,this is harder to see,but the use of the .target command can be used to check.
Then of course you can film your sorties and watch where your making your mistakes.
Once the problem is identified,as Grizz said, then you can develope drills to help or adjust your setup as the need may be.
:salute
Can you give some examples of the sort of drills you might use to help improve?
I'm struggling a lot with my gunnery as well, but I'm sure much of my problem is due to my not having played AH in many years. I'll start trying to pay more attention to why and how I'm missing though. This thread has been pretty helpful, though!
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Check my earlier post in the thread for my ongoing attempts at gunnery improvement. The lead sight in the TA has helped me with deflection although I am far from good at it. I'm sure Morfiend and the other trainers have some tips. It was Morfiend who put me on to the lead sight and the target command.
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Drills to improve gunnery.
1. Turn off tracers. A few reasons why:
Tracers alert the enemy to your intention to shoot him and tell him a lot about what you are doing. It is obvious that sending tracers over the head of an enemy who doesn't know you are there will get his attention. But even the enemy that knows you are there will panic a bit when he sees tracers and may become very unpredictable. So don't panic the bandit until you are getting hits by turning the tracers off. Also Tracers hide hit sprites. Sometimes what you think are hits are actually tracers.
2. Kill drones offline. 15 minutes a day before you go online. But do this with discipline. If flying wing mounted guns set your convergence and then practice offline by not allowing yourself to pull the trigger until you are at the convergence you set. Less than 400 yards. Ideally 200 yards.
3. 90% of bad gunnery is just shooting too far away. If you start firing at 800 yards with tracers on the bandit has plenty of time to panic break and spoil your shot even if you are on target with your rounds. You just don't get kill shots with a short burst outside of 400 yards unless you are in an aircraft specifically built to do that. Discipline yourself to fire at your convergence or inside of 400 yards for nose mounts.
4. Get a TA partner who will let you shoot at him. Fly every conceivable situation with the TAB targeting ON and tracers off. Learn what good lead looks like in every situation. Do this weekly.
5. Fly in the DA with a dueling partner but with special rules. You only get one pull of the trigger. Find a dueling partner that you can beat regularly or will let you win so you get your shot opportunity. One shot one kill. If you miss you have to auger and start over. Make a bet on the outcome to give yourself motivation.
Realize you can't be a perfect shot all the time. There are many factors. Right now my gunnery sucks. It comes and goes in cycles based upon my flying activity. I fly on two separate rigs because I travel for a living. That impairs gunnery so consider that as a factor. When you change something it affects your gunnery. I keep moving my home control setup trying to find an ideal setup. That affects gunnery.
So I am back to practicing, doing the things mentioned above. I doubt I'll ever get back to the level I was 10 years ago because my reflexes are slower but that just means I have to work a little harder.
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Drills to improve gunnery.
1. Turn off tracers. A few reasons why:
Tracers alert the enemy to your intention to shoot him and tell him a lot about what you are doing. It is obvious that sending tracers over the head of an enemy who doesn't know you are there will get his attention. But even the enemy that knows you are there will panic a bit when he sees tracers and may become very unpredictable. So don't panic the bandit until you are getting hits by turning the tracers off. Also Tracers hide hit sprites. Sometimes what you think are hits are actually tracers.
2. Kill drones offline. 15 minutes a day before you go online. But do this with discipline. If flying wing mounted guns set your convergence and then practice offline by not allowing yourself to pull the trigger until you are at the convergence you set. Less than 400 yards. Ideally 200 yards.
3. 90% of bad gunnery is just shooting too far away. If you start firing at 800 yards with tracers on the bandit has plenty of time to panic break and spoil your shot even if you are on target with your rounds. You just don't get kill shots with a short burst outside of 400 yards unless you are in an aircraft specifically built to do that. Discipline yourself to fire at your convergence or inside of 400 yards for nose mounts.
4. Get a TA partner who will let you shoot at him. Fly every conceivable situation with the TAB targeting ON and tracers off. Learn what good lead looks like in every situation. Do this weekly.
5. Fly in the DA with a dueling partner but with special rules. You only get one pull of the trigger. Find a dueling partner that you can beat regularly or will let you win so you get your shot opportunity. One shot one kill. If you miss you have to auger and start over. Make a bet on the outcome to give yourself motivation.
Realize you can't be a perfect shot all the time. There are many factors. Right now my gunnery sucks. It comes and goes in cycles based upon my flying activity. I fly on two separate rigs because I travel for a living. That impairs gunnery so consider that as a factor. When you change something it affects your gunnery. I keep moving my home control setup trying to find an ideal setup. That affects gunnery.
So I am back to practicing, doing the things mentioned above. I doubt I'll ever get back to the level I was 10 years ago because my reflexes are slower but that just means I have to work a little harder.
Great stuff Dawger!
I've been trying to do a little practice shooting the drones offline, but I really like the idea of getting a training partner to help practice this. I have been trying not to use the lead computing sight aid too much, because I was worried that I'd become too dependent on it... but maybe I should turn it back on.
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I only use it in the TA just to practice how much to lead. I'm not sure you can use it in the MA anyways.
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I only use it in the TA just to practice how much to lead. I'm not sure you can use it in the MA anyways.
You can't use it in the MA. What I meant is: I don't want to get dependent on it to the point where I can't hit anything without it (ie, in the MA)
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I'd add in to the excellent advice here, use short bursts until you know you are on target. Particularly with the 6 50s set up. When you know you have a hitting solution at close range, stand on the trigger till its lost.
Its all about getting feedback to your brain. If you don't take any shots you can't get a feel for it. If you are hosing you go through ammo too fast.
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Great stuff Dawger!
I've been trying to do a little practice shooting the drones offline, but I really like the idea of getting a training partner to help practice this. I have been trying not to use the lead computing sight aid too much, because I was worried that I'd become too dependent on it... but maybe I should turn it back on.
It is a learning tool so use it like one. You don't even have to shoot with it on. Just pay attention to where it is in various situations. What will happen is that knowledge will transfer to the arena when the crosshair is not available.
And do the training as a cycle. Practice offline a few minutes, then TA with lead computer on, then duel a bit one shot one kill style. What you are trying to do is build skill AND change attitude.
I was working with a guy the other day. His complaint was gunnery. So I said shoot at me. His gunnery was good, he was just shooting too far away. He was firing at 800 yards in a wing mounted guns aircraft with his convergence set at 350.
Over the next hour I got him to turn tracers off and not fire until under 400 yards. In an hour or so he went from thinking his gunnery was terrible to being excited about his gunnery. I didn't teach him gunnery skill in an hour. He could already shoot. He just needed to ditch the distraction of tracers and concentrate on firing at or near his convergence setting.
And close is not really that close. 400 yards is a long way to shoot something accurately. We lose sight of that fact online. 400 seems like a small number. Its 1200 feet.
The Empire State building is 1200 feet tall. It is a long way.
Drive in close and its much easier to hit stuff. You should be close enough to be able to aim at a specific part of the airplane. Aim for propellor spinner and you will get more pilot kills. that is the best way to end the fight, kill the pilot.
In fact, I personally consider it a miss if I don't kill the pilot. The pilot should be your target, not his plane. Aim to kill him and the rest is gravy.
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There are some great tips here already. Here is my two cents worth.
When practicing offline set all your drones to Bf109's. They present the smallest target, especially dead 6 shots. Once you get used to hitting 109s other aircraft will seem easier to hit.
I have found that my rudder use is crucial for fine tuning the shot. I always knew when my pedals began spiking, because I would see it in my gunnery first. Make sure your Yaw axis is smooth and scale it if necessary to cut down on the bounce.
Japanese cannons tend to act a little differently than any of the others in that the muzzle velocity is slower. This is especially noticeable in the A6M series. For that reason my A6M cannons are always set at max convergence. This elevates the cannon, basically lobbing the shell to D600, and makes high angle tracking shots easier.
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There's been alot of talk about the LCG,first it's only available in the training arena and can be enabled for offline use.
The first piece of advice I'd give about using it as a training aid it to try to fly so it's in the gunsight but dont shoot! The idea is to form a sight picture so once you can fly and track the sight with ease,then you look at the position to the other players aircraft.
I try to line up reference points,like as soon as the A/C crosses a frame part,or some other reference depending on the A/C type.Once the sight picture is developed and you think you know how much lead your going to need,then turn it off and shoot.
You may find you'll have to cycle turning on and off the sight,if your missing alot,to correct your aim.If you have a willing partner it's much easier to do all this but you dont need 1 for aquirring the sight picture as it's simple to lock the LCG on anyone and they dont even have to know your doing it,if you dont shoot.
Hope this helps,heaven knows I'm the last person to give advice on shooting....... :o cant hit squat myself.
:salute
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Lots of good info here! I agree with all of it except the turning the tracers off part.
IMO, they're one of, if not THE best tool for quickly learning where your shots are going. I've played both ways, and can't agree with those that recommend turning them off. I do "ok" with them off, but find I'm stuck at a 8-9% hit rate without them. Turn them back on, and I'm right back at 12-14%. They're a tool.
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Lots of good info here! I agree with all of it except the turning the tracers off part.
IMO, they're one of, if not THE best tool for quickly learning where your shots are going. I've played both ways, and can't agree with those that recommend turning them off. I do "ok" with them off, but find I'm stuck at a 8-9% hit rate without them. Turn them back on, and I'm right back at 12-14%. They're a tool.
Same way for me, 16-17% On, and about 9-10% Off. It may alert them to your prescence, but more times than not you already have the jump on them and can get them before anything drastic happens.
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When practicing offline set all your drones to Bf109's.
How is this done? I never knew that you could do this.............Learn something new everyday :D
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Lots of good info here! I agree with all of it except the turning the tracers off part.
IMO, they're one of, if not THE best tool for quickly learning where your shots are going. I've played both ways, and can't agree with those that recommend turning them off. I do "ok" with them off, but find I'm stuck at a 8-9% hit rate without them. Turn them back on, and I'm right back at 12-14%. They're a tool.
I have no clue what my hit percentage is ( and I honestly don't care). The only important gunnery measurement is the number of kills. Do what makes your kills increase. If you get more kills with tracers on, then use tracers on.
One possible area of difference is wing mounted versus nose mounted guns. I fly the P38 mainly and the tracers hide the target from me because they are right in front of me. Wing mounted guns don't do that as much so tracers on might work better in wing mounts.
Also your shooting style makes a difference. I'm used to flying a hard hitting guns package and killing with a single short burst. Tracers are of little use in that situation. If you are flying something with relatively weak guns and you need a long burst on target, tracers might aid that situation.
But I still believe if tracers are useful, you are firing too far away. At 200 yards and closer tracers are unnecessary. No tracers requires the discipline to drive in very close before pulling the trigger.
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Hogwash, for the most part...
I have no clue what my hit percentage is ( and I honestly don't care).
Then how do you even know whether you're qualified to help/teach/guide someone? All of your info is irrelevant if it's not "proven". How foolish would it look if you came in and gave advice to someone asking for gunnery help, only to find he's an equal or better shot compared to you?
The OP isn't asking how to get more kills, he's asking how to improve his gunnery.
The only important gunnery measurement is the number of kills.
LOL! You've got to be kidding... Number of kills is not a (reliable, anyway) measure of gunnery proficiency. I get kills without even shooting! I get kills even on a "off" night, when my gunnery is in the trash! I sometimes fail to get kills when my gunnery is outstanding!
Hit percentage, on the other hand is a much more reliable indicator of proficiency. Not 100% reliable, but drastically better than "number of kills". It can be skewed a bit up or down depending on several factors, but also, once those factors are identified it's not difficult to remove them from the equation, either, if you want the info to be even more reliable.
Hit percentage matters in other aspects too. A higher hit percentage leads to shorter fights, quicker kills, less use of ammo, and less loss of SA. If your hitting 1/2 as often as I am, it's likely going to take you longer to finish the fight (you'll miss shots that I would be twice as likely to make). This is going to cost you more E, more ammo, and more SA, to name a few... When you do get a shot you can make, it'll likely take twice as long to land enough hits for the kill, again at more expense... Those shots are probably going to be spread out more, too, requiring more ammo... And even if the hits I make are inconsequential damage-wise, the effect on the other pilot can be telling.
One possible area of difference is wing mounted versus nose mounted guns. I fly the P38 mainly and the tracers hide the target from me because they are right in front of me. Wing mounted guns don't do that as much so tracers on might work better in wing mounts.
Yes, the P38 has some pretty easy guns to master. It's a very forgiving set-up. I fly the F4U, which with the wing-mounted guns throws a whole lot more complications into the mix. Then again, the F4U has .50's, which are again, pretty simple to master. Of course, the P38 has those too... The tracers will only hide the target if you're firing in long bursts, in my experience. Even in long bursts, I can't remember a single incidence of the tracers making me unable to see my target.
Also your shooting style makes a difference. I'm used to flying a hard hitting guns package and killing with a single short burst. Tracers are of little use in that situation.
Unless you miss... Tracers aren't supposed to do anything except give you a very good idea where your rounds go when you miss. When you hit (which accounts for a small percentage of the rounds you fire) you have no need of tracers (or any other input as far as where the rounds you fired went.
The short burst idea is definitely a winner. I'm sure anyone with a decent proficiency in gunnery is using the same tactic. Long bursts would generally drive your hit percentage down, because statistically, you're more likely to miss than you are to hit (some exceptions, of course).
But I still believe if tracers are useful, you are firing too far away. At 200 yards and closer tracers are unnecessary. No tracers requires the discipline to drive in very close before pulling the trigger.
Turning tracers off does not force you to get in close. It doesn't force more discipline. It forces you to do one thing, and one thing only... It forces you to guess. And guess again, and guess again. And again. And again. they force you to guess, because you have no way to know. You have nothing but a guess as to where the majority of the rounds you fire go. A small percentage hit the target, sure, but where did the rest go?
Say you fire at a target (without tracers), and you miss. Where did your shots go? High, low, behind, in front? How do you know? You don't... You think they might have gone low? So aim higher... Ooops, still missing! Where do you aim now? Lower? What if you were low, but when you aimed higher you didn't aim high enough?
With tracers, if I shoot and miss, I know where my shots went. If I don't know exactly, I still have a very good estimation. If my bullets miss low, my tracers aren't going to go over my target. If I don't lead enough, my tracers won't pass in front of the plane I'm shooting at. I don't "watch" my tracers, I just see them peripherally. However, when I need some factual input, they're right there.
Honestly, having tried both ways, I'd say that without a doubt, the tracers are more important than your sights are. If you want to get rid of one, get rid of your sights, and leave the tracers on. For the vast majority of your shots, the sights aren't much help anyway. Often, they're just plain misleading. Not so with the tracers...
Tracers also shouldn't be a real issue when it comes to "warning" the other pilot. Unless of course, you're missing, or shooting from too far away. Even then, all the tracers in the world shouldn't matter if the other pilot has any SA at all. He should know you're there LONG before tracers would play any role. If he doesn't, you really shouldn't be missing, either. Personally, I've lived through FAR more engagements due to the other pilot having his tracers off, than due to any warning tracers have given me. Actually, my confidence level goes up drastically as soon as I realize my opponent has his tracers off.
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How is this done? I never knew that you could do this.............Learn something new everyday :D
In offline mode go to "Options" then "Arena settings" then "Offline drones". You will see the various employees of HiTech and the vehicles they are assigned. You can change the aircraft type and even make them all GV's if you need ground pounding practice.
Don't feel bad, this thread taught me about the ".target" command and the lead computing gunsight. Never too old or experienced to learn! :D
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Great stuff Dawger!
I've been trying to do a little practice shooting the drones offline, but I really like the idea of getting a training partner to help practice this. I have been trying not to use the lead computing sight aid too much, because I was worried that I'd become too dependent on it... but maybe I should turn it back on.
i think his point with the lead computer on in the ta was this.
you'll need it for a bit to see the right "picture" to shoot at. you'll start to see this picture over and over, as you shoot, until one day, you realize you're shooting at the picture, rather than by the coaching of the leqad computer.
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It is a learning tool so use it like one. You don't even have to shoot with it on. Just pay attention to where it is in various situations. What will happen is that knowledge will transfer to the arena when the crosshair is not available.
And do the training as a cycle. Practice offline a few minutes, then TA with lead computer on, then duel a bit one shot one kill style. What you are trying to do is build skill AND change attitude.
I was working with a guy the other day. His complaint was gunnery. So I said shoot at me. His gunnery was good, he was just shooting too far away. He was firing at 800 yards in a wing mounted guns aircraft with his convergence set at 350.
Over the next hour I got him to turn tracers off and not fire until under 400 yards. In an hour or so he went from thinking his gunnery was terrible to being excited about his gunnery. I didn't teach him gunnery skill in an hour. He could already shoot. He just needed to ditch the distraction of tracers and concentrate on firing at or near his convergence setting.
And close is not really that close. 400 yards is a long way to shoot something accurately. We lose sight of that fact online. 400 seems like a small number. Its 1200 feet.
The Empire State building is 1200 feet tall. It is a long way.
Drive in close and its much easier to hit stuff. You should be close enough to be able to aim at a specific part of the airplane. Aim for propellor spinner and you will get more pilot kills. that is the best way to end the fight, kill the pilot.
In fact, I personally consider it a miss if I don't kill the pilot. The pilot should be your target, not his plane. Aim to kill him and the rest is gravy.
if ya want a good idea of what 400 yards looks like in real life, use your gps. it'll call out 400 yards to the next turn, then 350, etc.
and yes.....400 yards is nearly a quarter of a mile.