Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dedalos on August 30, 2010, 01:05:53 PM
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Soooooo, whats the deal with F3 mode in the DA? People are making some amazing shots from under their nose. Nice, short, perfectly timed bursts on a plane they cant see :lol
I know that we are against any kind of fair fighting in this game, but comon :lol What is the reason it is on in the DA? Can we please turn it off or have some fields that is off? Pretty please?????? :D
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I agree, can not see how it advances the game.
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I agree, can not see how it advances the game.
+1
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lol
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Soooooo, whats the deal with F3 mode in the DA? People are making some amazing shots from under their nose. Nice, short, perfectly timed bursts on a plane they cant see :lol
I can make those type of shots without F3.
ack-ack
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It is on to appease the ppl that came over from H2H. There was a huge group in there that couldn't fly without externals. That is why you don't see some of the more noted names in the DA in the MA, ever. They still can't fly without external.
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F3 has always been in the DA since i've been playing AH.
ack-ack
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I can make those type of shots without F3.
ack-ack
i couldn't make them WITH f3
:rofl :rofl
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F3 has always been in the DA since i've been playing AH.
ack-ack
For a stint it wasn't.
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F3 has always been in the DA since i've been playing AH.
ack-ack
Hmmm, nop. And the fact that you can make those shots does not mean F3 should be available in the DA. I don;t see how the two are related
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I can't fly/fight in F3 mode - it's a sure auger or death. Not even close to really flying.
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Hmmm, nop. And the fact that you can make those shots does not mean F3 should be available in the DA. I don;t see how the two are related
Because I'm saying that more than likely you are incorrect in your assumption that the other guy is using F3.
ack-ack
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of course he can because he's "--- ---"
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I can't fly/fight in F3 mode - it's a sure auger or death.
Same. I don't see how they do it and some of them are really good at it.
I know that many of the old H2Hers used it exclusively b/c I used to host rooms and they would come in and request that I turn on F3. They weren't ashamed of doing it, it was just they way they learned the game. I would almost always turn it on for them because they were good fighters and it made the room better to have them.
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I can't fly/fight in F3 mode - it's a sure auger or death. Not even close to really flying.
Same....I can't even do it with An A20 in the mains...I get all confused.....
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Because I'm saying that more than likely you are incorrect in your assumption that the other guy is using F3.
ack-ack
I think after 10 years of dueling, I may know what I am talking about :lol So, lets say I am wrong, do you see a good reason for it?
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I can't fly/fight in F3 mode - it's a sure auger or death. Not even close to really flying.
Comon now, you just flip over to F3 for a second or two to line up the shot and then back to normal. I don;t think anyone is flying in F3 mode exclusively.
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I think after 10 years of dueling, I may know what I am talking about :lol So, lets say I am wrong, do you see a good reason for it?
i was told by either Bruv or kazaa that i was using F3 mode to pull off some nice shots from under the nose which was not the case. so dedalos this is possible maybe not for some but for a select few they are pretty good at it no disrespect at all dedalos :salute :salute ohh and i am with you all the way to have it removed but i fear it wont happen :bolt:
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i was told by either Bruv or kazaa that i was using F3 mode to pull off some nice shots from under the nose which was not the case. so dedalos this is possible maybe not for some but for a select few they are pretty good at it no disrespect at all dedalos :salute :salute
Of coarse, I never said everyone is using it. At the same time time though, it would only take a quick flick back and forth and no one would know. If there is no good reason for it being there then why have it? Base on your post, the question has come up before so why even have it there to generate these questions? Especially if no one is using it? ;)
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Of coarse, I never said everyone is using it. At the same time time though, it would only take a quick flick back and forth and no one would know. If there is no good reason for it being there then why have it? Base on your post, the question has come up before so why even have it there to generate these questions? Especially if no one is using it? ;)
:aok I am right with ya about having it removed i only fear it will not happen :salute
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:aok I am right with ya about having it removed i only fear it will not happen :salute
I am sure the fact that I am the one asking is not going to help either :rofl
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I am sure the fact that I am the one asking is not going to help either :rofl
:lol i have seen many complain about it still nothing :(
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F3 has always been in the DA since i've been playing AH.
Really? Wow.
- oldman
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I can make those type of shots without F3.
ack-ack
I attempt to make those shots, with highly unpredictable results...
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I attempt to make those shots, with highly unpredictable results...
:lol just keep your eye on them ;)
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I dont know how to fly with F3, it just confuses me, I do like to fly around with F4 though, because I like to look at the plane im flying and admire it :) as for making crazy deflection shots, I just take my speed, pull in so the plane im shooting at is in my side veiw, then roll and shoot when I think they (my cannon rounds and the plane) will cross paths, I have made some pretty unbelivable shots like this
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I dont know how to fly with F3, it just confuses me, I do like to fly around with F4 though, because I like to look at the plane im flying and admire it :) as for making crazy deflection shots, I just take my speed, pull in so the plane im shooting at is in my side veiw, then roll and shoot when I think they (my cannon rounds and the plane) will cross paths, I have made some pretty unbelivable shots like this
i think the F4 mode is really great for someone making AH films i love how the camera follows behind and you can see almost every movement on the plane :rock :rock
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I attempt to make those shots, with highly unpredictable results...
Because I fly a plane that is really hard to see over the nose, I've raised my sights so the bore sight is at eye level. This gives me a better view over the nose that allows me to see shots I otherwise wouldn't have been able to see with the default sight view.
ack-ack
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Because I fly a plane that is really hard to see over the nose, I've raised my sights so the bore sight is at eye level. This gives me a better view over the nose that allows me to see shots I otherwise wouldn't have been able to see with the default sight view.
ack-ack
We are all glad you can do that Ack. I still fail to see any relation to what you can do, what you just described, and what I am talking about. A big part of a duel, especially when e is lost is to hide under your opponents plane while you are rolling. When you go back and look at a film and you see said opponent - repeatedly - lining up perfectly (he cant see you under his plane) while you are changing angles to avoid even a lucky shot, and then he follows with a 2 second perfectly timed burst, something is up. Not talking about raising gun sites etc.
Do you think having the F3 mode enabled in the DA adds something to the game or do you think it is the wrong place to have it enabled? I never said that every one that can make a shot is using it.
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Really? Wow.
- oldman
hehehe S! Oldman, perhaps Ack-Ack's memory slipped him on that one. They introduced it at some point, I believe the same time as the new map with the lake. It never used to be that way.
I agree Dedalos. If they feel they need that edge that's fine, I can easily film it and check if they had a chance of a shot from in cockpit if I care enough to find out who plays fair. I wish F3 was removed from the DA.
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hehehe S! Oldman, perhaps Ack-Ack's memory slipped him on that one. They introduced it at some point, I believe the same time as the new map with the lake. It never used to be that way.
Yeah, confused it with the CM God Eye mode.
ack-ack
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i bet hitech has a CM eye mode with a gun loadout :D
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DA is basically an advanced training arena that's why f3 is available. If it bothers you that others use it, dpnt go there.
Semp
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Neah. It should stay.
However, there should be a graphic showing a huge red flaming Eyeball like the one in the Lord of the Rings floating over the plane, turning this way and that, and a deep, dark thundering voice should come on for everyone in icon distance saying "XXXXXX has invoked "Phenomenal Cosmic Poooowwwweeerr!" followed by a lightning crack and a thunderous crash.
<S>
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Or, on second thought, maybe not... :D
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DA is basically an advanced training arena that's why f3 is available. If it bothers you that others use it, dpnt go there.
Semp
I'm pretty sure the Dueling Arena is an Arena for Dueling, not an advanced training arena. ;)
I don't like F3.
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I'm pretty sure the Dueling Arena is an Arena for Dueling, not an advanced training arena. ;)
I don't like F3.
you see any people dueling on the lake?
semp
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you see any people dueling on the lake?
semp
You see any people getting advanced training on the lake?
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You see any people getting advanced training on the lake?
me.
semp
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Remove it?
Why is it there in the first place? OP is right - there are crew in there that use it right up until they need gunsight reference. And most will freely admit to it if you pm and ask them. but there are those in the DA who only go to the DA and if they were to venture into the MA they would be handicapped by not only a lack of external views but also the inability to up perk rides.
if I'm time poor I'll go to the DA and if I don't feel like a full blown sweep I'll go and there's the obvious of improving (albeit trying to improve) your own skills.
But then if the use of F3 makes your opponent better by a factor of 2 it actually does you some good that they use it because you're duelling someone with better SA than you so it is good practice. The kill is harder to get and you rise to it.
So if you look at it in a way it's better for you not to use external views in the DA against those that do. It's those that use F3 that are suffering in the long term. So if there's a Tempest using external views, superior speed and a supersized Hispano package to BnZ his way to glory it's a challenge.
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DA is basically an advanced training arena that's why f3 is available. If it bothers you that others use it, dpnt go there.
Problem is, everyone says "Hey, if you want fair fights, go to the DA!" "Hey, if you want 1v1 fights, go to the DA!"
So you go to the DA, and find that it's basically an advanced training arena?
- oldman (so glad for the AvA)
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It is on to appease the ppl that came over from H2H. There was a huge group in there that couldn't fly without externals. That is why you don't see some of the more noted names in the DA in the MA, ever. They still can't fly without external.
That is the exact reason why it should be turned off. Make them learn how to.
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So they got F3 mode. BIG DEAL. How many arenas we have that don't have F3? Find one of those to have a duel in. :rolleyes: If that's the way the H2H guys want to play, let em alone. They're paying 14.95 a month too....do they not?
There's too many arenas now for this to even be an issue IMO.
i can't believe i just sided with the rowdyrum phumpsters..or whatever they're called. :bolt:
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the DA is almost an entirely different game with a different community. If it were up to me I'd leave well enough alone. Never go in there anyway so no big deal to me.
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I Say out with F3 mode all together it should only be available in the training arena or when you within 2K of the field for a help for some players to land :) :D Like Me :lol :D
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So they got F3 mode. BIG DEAL. How many arenas we have that don't have F3? Find one of those to have a duel in. :rolleyes: If that's the way the H2H guys want to play, let em alone. They're paying 14.95 a month too....do they not?
Well, so do I and a lot of others. I find it hard to believe that HT turned it on for the guys coming from H2H. If that is teh case, why not cater to the guys that have been paying for the last 10 years?
As for the guy thinking that the DA is a training arena, it is not!. However, there is a training arena that has F3 on so why not go there then? And if semp thinks he is improving by fighting in the lake with F3 on, I am afraid I have some very bad news for him :rofl
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DA is basically an advanced training arena that's why f3 is available. If it bothers you that others use it, dpnt go there.
Semp
How about we turn it off and if it bothers you, you stop going there. Why not try the TA that actually has trainers in it? More advanced than the lake, I think lol
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the problem ded is that its already on. has been for years and the fact "you" dislike it just isn't reason enough to change it. There's a whole group of people like it just the way it is.
If you want a believable and sustainable cause to pursue get em to turn external view for the A20 off, or at least turn it on for the MOSS :) (would prefer the A20 get turned off as its the only fighter in game to have external view enabled in MA).
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I am sure the fact that I am the one asking is not going to help either :rofl
:rofl ... I was thinking the exact same thing ... EVERYBODY !!! ... this change will never happen and you can blame Ded for it.
Oh ... I forgot ... :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry he used F3 mode ... NOT FAIR !!!
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the problem ded is that its already on. has been for years and the fact "you" dislike it just isn't reason enough to change it. There's a whole group of people like it just the way it is.
If you want a believable and sustainable cause to pursue get em to turn external view for the A20 off, or at least turn it on for the MOSS :) (would prefer the A20 get turned off as its the only fighter in game to have external view enabled in MA).
And for years it wasn't. I don;t get your point? It can't be changed because it is there? It is not just me that does not like it us you might have read.
If you read the thread, with the exception of a couple of people that really give no reason for it to be there (other than the typical if you don;t like it then leave), most posters don;t like it.
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:rofl ... I was thinking the exact same thing ... EVERYBODY !!! ... this change will never happen and you can blame Ded for it.
:rofl Shut it old man! :furious
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H2H guys had enough time to transition. HTC, please, disable F3 in DA
:rofl ... I was thinking the exact same thing ... EVERYBODY !!! ... this change will never happen and you can blame Ded for it.
See, what have you done Dedalos? :devil
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H2H guys had enough time to transition. HTC, please, disable F3 in DA
See, what have you done Dedalos? :devil
:devil :devil :devil :devil
:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
:t :t :t :t
:old: :old: :old: :old:
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I don't like the F3 thing either. The whole arena needs redone if ya ask me. I'm just trying to see the other side of this.
They're not really hurting anyone. But I'd like to hear the story behind all this. :D
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I don;t get your point?
Ya cant fix stupid :bolt:
:aok
Point is this: I don't care about F3 in there since I do not DA. I was just voicing my opinion that of all the things in the game to harp on this one feature just isn't important, to me.
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nooooo, -1,000 dont take my f3 away lol
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if its a "training Arena" then its there to assist in "training". if it were the MA's that would be different. why cry about something people are using to help make them better, albeit at your expense.
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Who is crying?
The main factor is that the DA is the only place we can go to settle scores and have fair competitions. That in itself should be a good reason to limit the f3 view. It's crazy, the one palce we can go to have a pure 1on1 fight and we can't now even be sure who is 'gaming the game' or not.
The SDL compete in the DA, the Tri-Annual Dueling league competes in there.....these are events that would hopefully not attract someone who wont play fair, but still the fact remains that F3 is available.
PS: to those who say it makes no difference, try fighting in a 109k4 and drawing a high-G lead for a 400yrd shot from inside the cockpit. Or try fighting in anything and geussing where they will pop up from under your nose during your high scissor, instead of tracking them all the way from externals. It makes no difference to the furballing but for high level dueling, it is a big factor.
*shrug*
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Down with F3 mode! Let's make it the same for everyone and may the best man win!
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The main factor is that the DA is the only place we can go to settle scores and have fair competitions.
Good point. Maybe HTC could take a unused server and create a dedicated DA and separate the FFA LAKE into its own arena where the ex H2H F3 guys could congregate.
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Point is this: I don't care about F3 in there since I do not DA. I was just voicing my opinion that of all the things in the game to harp on this one feature just isn't important, to me.
Why waste calories on something you don't care about? Very menopausal of you.
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Who is crying?
The main factor is that the DA is the only place we can go to settle scores and have fair competitions. That in itself should be a good reason to limit the f3 view. It's crazy, the one palce we can go to have a pure 1on1 fight and we can't now even be sure who is 'gaming the game' or not.
The SDL compete in the DA, the Tri-Annual Dueling league competes in there.....these are events that would hopefully not attract someone who wont play fair, but still the fact remains that F3 is available.
PS: to those who say it makes no difference, try fighting in a 109k4 and drawing a high-G lead for a 400yrd shot from inside the cockpit. Or try fighting in anything and geussing where they will pop up from under your nose during your high scissor, instead of tracking them all the way from externals. It makes no difference to the furballing but for high level dueling, it is a big factor.
*shrug*
Shut it Bat!!! He is a staff member and member of the JG54. He has obviusly better himself by using the F3 mode so quit crying already!
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Why waste calories on something you don't care about? Very menopausal of you.
:rofl
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you see any people dueling on the lake?
semp
You see any people getting advanced training on the lake?
me.
semp
Well if it were named after my personal experiences in the Lake, I would call the arena "Tempest/F4U-4 Avoidance Arena" or "Brewster/Spitfire/A6M Assault Arena". I think "Dueling Arena" will have to do.
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Why waste calories on something you don't care about? Very menopausal of you.
I, just exactly like you, have nothing better to do....obviously. Why else would we be here now?
Leave those poor lake folk alone! They aint hurten nobiddy!
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One time I accused batfinkv of shooting me using F3 mode but then I just realized that he is jedi knight.
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Well if so many people enjoy it at the lake fair enough, let them keep it.
S! to everyone who flies inside the plane in the DA lake. Well done, you are in the top 5%.
edit: lol Grizz, you didnt accuse me, you brought up the subject due to a scissors snapshot along time ago. Seems since then you learnt to setup the best 30mm solutions of anyone in the game :salute
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Till i saw this thread, i thought that only the ta had F3 available in all aircraft........
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I very seldom go to the DA because of F-3 mode. I see guys in peck ride they can't afford in the MA spraying the sky with cannon like a garden hose from F-3 mode. The DA what it is.
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Well if so many people enjoy it at the lake fair enough, let them keep it.
Hmmmmm, where are they? All I saw in this thread is one guy. Perfect solution would be if it was possible to have it on in some fields and off in others. Or two two DAs? One with only the lake and one with dueling fields. That will also take the temptation of the llake guys to come mess with 1 vs 1 fights.
Holding breath :uhoh
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We are all glad you can do that Ack. I still fail to see any relation to what you can do, what you just described, and what I am talking about. A big part of a duel, especially when e is lost is to hide under your opponents plane while you are rolling. When you go back and look at a film and you see said opponent - repeatedly - lining up perfectly (he cant see you under his plane) while you are changing angles to avoid even a lucky shot, and then he follows with a 2 second perfectly timed burst, something is up. Not talking about raising gun sites etc.
If fly the K4 quite a bit, and as anyone who flys that thing can attest to, you cannon falls straight out of the nose.
The Majority of my shots are made when I have no vis on the plane I'm aiming at. It's all a matter of spacial awareness and being able to visualize what you think the other plane is going to do.
Good pilots are looking at you when you're working on shooting them, and you'll see a 90 degree roll mess up a lot of your shots.
Perhaps they're not lining up perfectly, you're just not doing enough to spoil their shot.
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My approach to over the nose shots: Fire and forget... about hitting anything.
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If fly the K4 quite a bit, and as anyone who flys that thing can attest to, you cannon falls straight out of the nose.
The Majority of my shots are made when I have no vis on the plane I'm aiming at. It's all a matter of spacial awareness and being able to visualize what you think the other plane is going to do.
Good pilots are looking at you when you're working on shooting them, and you'll see a 90 degree roll mess up a lot of your shots.
Perhaps they're not lining up perfectly, you're just not doing enough to spoil their shot.
Maybe, but it is irrelevant. This thread is not about how good some maybe in calculating a shot or how bad I may be avoiding it. It is about F3 mode in a place called the dueling arena. Do you think it adds anything to the game? I think it does not. Why not turn on the calculating sights also and maybe some power ups in the air to fi my plane when I get shot up?
It gives the other guy an unfair advantage. Not only assisting with shots, but being able to locate you when you are hiding under his plane.
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F3 has always been in the DA since i've been playing AH.
ack-ack
really? guess u've been playing for about 3 years
edit per: Yeah, confused it with the CM God Eye mode.
ack-ack
sorry caught a case of ADD after page 2
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Just my opinion so its worth what you paid for it....F3 is an advantage of immeasurable proportion. Not that people cannot make those shots internally, its that you don't ever miss externally once you get good at it AND it allows you to see a 180 degree view, unimpeded around you...SA on steriods.
I flew the first 1.5 years in the DA and for about 8 months used F3 without fail. HUGE difference guys...once you get used to it shots fired are shots hit....guaranteed with any practice at all.
Lastly, my first DAY in the game, GhostH was the trainer in the TA and he was trying his best to help me get an F4U-4 OFF THE GROUND...(wrecked it on takeoff 21 times in a row...my 8 year old son counted them outloud and then proceeded to tell me to listen to the man in the computer because you're not good at this Daddy) and when I finally did he advised me strenuously NOT to go to the DA or the MA until I got used to the flying because it is humiliating to get shot down repeatedly...he was right so I switched to F3 after listening to some guys talk about it. My point is that I would have been MUCH better off without F3 as a training tool...I had to re-acclimate myself to everything once I decided I wanted to fly a sim instead of play Galaga.
I made some real good buddies in the DA...they fly their way which is arcade gamey to me. I don't know any WW II pilots that flew 200 feet behind their plane on a tether of some sort with complete control over their a/c...lol. It should go because new folks find their way into that arena and learn the game wrong. If I hadn't listened honestly to Sunbat, Hlbly, Dodger and MugZ I would still be in there or off the game...honest truth.
Changeup
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Sorry, duplicate
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Maybe, but it is irrelevant. This thread is not about how good some maybe in calculating a shot or how bad I may be avoiding it. It is about F3 mode in a place called the dueling arena. Do you think it adds anything to the game? I think it does not. Why not turn on the calculating sights also and maybe some power ups in the air to fi my plane when I get shot up?
It gives the other guy an unfair advantage. Not only assisting with shots, but being able to locate you when you are hiding under his plane.
I do just fine in the DA without using F3 mode... I'm not talking crap, I just think that you are not giving people enough credit. There most definately are people that game the game, both in the DA and the MA. The trick is to kill them regardless...
I'm not claiming to be a great pilot, I'm most definately average. When it comes to getting mad at lagwarps, or F3, or stick stirring or cutting your engine, or any other of the hundreds of things kids (and adult kids) do to gain an advantage what you MUST do is blow them up, then talk smack on 200. This is the way of things...
I wouldn't suggest using target tracking, but you may give it a shot so you get used to looking at what the other plane is doing while you're flying. Knowing where and what they're doing should dictate what you're doing. If your constantly getting shot down by "impossible" shots, you're doing something wrong, its that simple.
Simple solution is roll 90 degrees and pull through your turn, it'll mess up your shot... or try chopping your throttle and trimming up and slipping on their 6, at the very least, you may force a scissor. Or kick your rudder as you pass, or drop flaps (depending on speed and plane)... there are a TON of things you can do to spoil a shot, and all the F3 in the world will not help them get it back.
Take control of the fight and let the gamers game.
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If your constantly getting shot down by "impossible" shots, you're doing something wrong, its that simple.
Not so much...the impossible shots or very difficult ones are one aspect....under the nose is the real asset that F3 provides. You can slip away in most cases under the nose in the MA or at the very least avoid shots...you have very little chance to manuever if they are flying F3....I flew F3 every day for quite a while. It is completely different without it. Anyone that says otherwise is not telling the truth because it isn't just the marksmanship, its also the visibility...geezus you can see vertically and horizontally 180 degrees forward and aft when you look backwards. When you have that field of view and you can fly, the bogey isn't getting away very often.
Changeup
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*shrug* I guess I'm alone in my opinion then. Yes, it gives an advantage... but that's the history of aerial warfare... overcoming an advantage. Look at the North Vietnamese Airforce in the early days of the conflict. They had a less technological plane (w/ less visiblity) as far as radar and BVR goes, yet they were able to fly their planes to their strengths and cause a HUGE hurting to allied airforces. It wasn't until we adapted to their tactics that we began to pull ahead in K/D.
Yes, F3 gives an immense advantage, but its no different than flying a mig17 up against an F4-Phantom. Figure out ways to negate his advantage, or turn it against him and make that advantage yours. If they are that reliant upon it, there is very little wiggle room for them to function when out of their comfort zone.
It's still using a game feature to compensate for lack of skill, plain and simple... I don't see any problem in using it, especially when someone starts using it as a crutch. It's like the 234 pilot that is dependant on RATO units to escape a fight. It may work once, but they're screwed after that, and probably shoulda learned hwo to fly the thing, and not just game it?
Am I honestly alone in thinking this?
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I myself flew mainly DA for the first year or so and also flew F3,Till I decided to pull up my big boy shorts and go where it was all equal terms other then better skill lol.
But I can say the top ten in the DA only fly F3 and they will tell you this,but whats funny is out of the ten I have 1v1 with there way witch ended 50/50 win/loss but then I asked for no F3 boy the changes 9/10 or 8/10 only do to hitting ground or trees my own fault.And I can say when I flew F3 I could kill 1000 or more out and kill 90% of the time in any turn,dive whatever all I needed to do is watch where my tracers where and the adjust so F3 does give a upper hand immensely.
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I do just fine in the DA without using F3 mode... I'm not talking crap, I just think that you are not giving people enough credit. There most definately are people that game the game, both in the DA and the MA. The trick is to kill them regardless...
I'm not claiming to be a great pilot, I'm most definately average. When it comes to getting mad at lagwarps, or F3, or stick stirring or cutting your engine, or any other of the hundreds of things kids (and adult kids) do to gain an advantage what you MUST do is blow them up, then talk smack on 200. This is the way of things...
I wouldn't suggest using target tracking, but you may give it a shot so you get used to looking at what the other plane is doing while you're flying. Knowing where and what they're doing should dictate what you're doing. If your constantly getting shot down by "impossible" shots, you're doing something wrong, its that simple.
Simple solution is roll 90 degrees and pull through your turn, it'll mess up your shot... or try chopping your throttle and trimming up and slipping on their 6, at the very least, you may force a scissor. Or kick your rudder as you pass, or drop flaps (depending on speed and plane)... there are a TON of things you can do to spoil a shot, and all the F3 in the world will not help them get it back.
Take control of the fight and let the gamers game.
Thank you, I will follow your advice on flying and trying to get a kill and not get shot down repeatedly. However, you still did not answer the simple question. Do you think it adds to the game in an arena called the Dueling Arena, or not?
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he advised me strenuously NOT to go to the DA or the MA until I got used to the flying because it is humiliating to get shot down repeatedly...
Change, if getting shot down repeatedly was humiliating, I would have quit the game a looooooooon loooooong time ago. Then again, this may be why we never see him in the DA :lol
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Thank you, I will follow your advice on flying and trying to get a kill and not get shot down repeatedly. However, you still did not answer the simple question. Do you think it adds to the game in an arena called the Dueling Arena, or not?
no. for dueling, there should be no f3 mode.
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You know someone is using F-3 when they make fantastic deflection shots on you. If you fly MA at all you learn how to turn under an opponents shot.
Then you go to the DA and some numbers guy shoots you with a perfect deflection shot that even a guy like Agent360 would miss. Then claim innocents if confronted on 200 about F3 mode. These are the same bunch who are trying to kill uppers on the runway there.
For me it makes the DA worthless for improving my flying skills, what little I have. I see no use for F-3 in the DA. Maybe HT has another reason for it being in use in the DA we are missing. I guess if cheap kills and seeing you name in lights is all you want then the DA and F-3 mode is your ticket.
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To answer your question... yes, I believe the DA should have F3, god mode, and all of that good stuff... that or they should make it just like the MA, take away the free perk rides, move the bases back to 25miles + distance and 0FT above sea level, throw a few enemy CV's in the middle of the lake so there's some nice puffy ack and noobs on guns to deal with when you shoot them down and they get mad and need quick revenge, up the burn rate to match the MA so you have to take more fuel and fly heavy (OH NOES NO SPIXTEEN W/ 25% FUEL?!?!), and allow base capture so we can kick those stinking rooks off the lake and 'ruin' it for everyone!
The DA is setup as it is because there is a select group of people that cannot play the game in the MA. It takes more time, more thought, and more skill.
Why get mad about it and rant? It's the same as people yelling about Spixteens in the MA being easy mode and any oneday noob can bring one it and kill you in it... whaaaa whaaaaa whaaaaa.
My answer is the same as it has been: Deal with it, adapt to it, or continue to die screaming.
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To answer your question... yes, I believe the DA should have F3, god mode, and all of that good stuff... that or they should make it just like the MA, take away the free perk rides, move the bases back to 25miles + distance and 0FT above sea level, throw a few enemy CV's in the middle of the lake so there's some nice puffy ack and noobs on guns to deal with when you shoot them down and they get mad and need quick revenge, up the burn rate to match the MA so you have to take more fuel and fly heavy (OH NOES NO SPIXTEEN W/ 25% FUEL?!?!), and allow base capture so we can kick those stinking rooks off the lake and 'ruin' it for everyone!
The DA is setup as it is because there is a select group of people that cannot play the game in the MA. It takes more time, more thought, and more skill.
Why get mad about it and rant? It's the same as people yelling about Spixteens in the MA being easy mode and any oneday noob can bring one it and kill you in it... whaaaa whaaaaa whaaaaa.
My answer is the same as it has been: Deal with it, adapt to it, or continue to die screaming.
Cool, and the reason you think it should stay? What does it add to the DA?
It may be harder for me to play in the MA but until I have the skills to join you guys there, I'll be screaming whaaaa whaaaa whaaa every time I get killed in the DA or the MA by the aces like you. DO you think you could deal or adapt to it being off? ;) I am willing to bet some money that on or off, DA or MA, all we would see from you is a few seconds of flopping like a fish and then a smart skillful run to the nearest ack :rofl
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I've never gotten F3 mode is in the DA I guess to get more of a video game feel for some and I know some good sticks that strictly fly the DA and in F3 mode all the time and want fly MA because they can't fly external.
Personally I don't care it's there if someone wants to fly that way and you can fly F1 if you want but dueling tournaments being able to use f3 for snap shots I don't like, be nice to make all the other fields besides a1,a2,a3 to not have f3 that's just me
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hiding under his plane.
I wondered where you went :headscratch:
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My answer to the question is NO, F3 mode is a game changer. When I started here I had to adapt to the absense of G forces. ( I have many hours actual flying time). The stick stirring that many use would render you unconious in seconds. I have spent a lot of time learning to evade as well as saddle up, if the rules suddenly change and turning under my opponent's nose is no longer possible I am not interested in continuing. Before anyone starts typing " well don't go to the DA then" I don't visit the DA. I spend most of my time in MW because the skill level and game attitude is in my opinion higher than other arenas. My experiances has been if you want to get better fight better opponents. Frankly I would leave the game if F3 was available in MA's, I am pretty sure many IL2 drivers use it anyway.
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Why is there so much discussion about this? lol
a) training arena is training arena, dueling arena is the dueling arena. (Furball Lake is a furballing feature, in a arena designed for dueling.)
b) Why would you give anyone a chance to game f3 view, when most of the time, you go to DA for a fair fight, using the same settings as used in the main arena.
c)This isnt a time consuming setting change, it would take admin about 30 seconds to log on, and change it.
d)If you dont care, then why comment?
e)Learn to make the shot from your cockpit, if you need help doing so, ask delirium. ;)
Any external view should be allowed only in offline mode, or the training arena. There isnt a reason to have it enabled. If you want to see your training wheels on your spit16 from the outside, go offline and do it. :aok
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Get rid of it F3. You need external for film and TA. IMHO.
I think Dedalos is missing the whole point. I think what the real issue is how to stop pancaking? :O
Disclaimer: Inside joke
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I need F3 mode so can see the ground coming up from under me, just before I pancake :cry
Fixed
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It does heighten the experience to watch oneself pancake in F3 mode...
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Why is there so much discussion about this? lol
a) training arena is training arena, dueling arena is the dueling arena. (Furball Lake is a furballing feature, in a arena designed for dueling.)
b) Why would you give anyone a chance to game f3 view, when most of the time, you go to DA for a fair fight, using the same settings as used in the main arena.
c)This isnt a time consuming setting change, it would take admin about 30 seconds to log on, and change it.
d)If you dont care, then why comment?
e)Learn to make the shot from your cockpit, if you need help doing so, ask delirium. ;)
Any external view should be allowed only in offline mode, or the training arena. There isnt a reason to have it enabled. If you want to see your training wheels on your spit16 from the outside, go offline and do it. :aok
:aok
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Change, if getting shot down repeatedly was humiliating, I would have quit the game a looooooooon loooooong time ago. Then again, this may be why we never see him in the DA :lol
Understood...he was doing his best to protect a noob....but he also understood that Furball lake is a massacre waiting to happen especially to a noob.
Changeup
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Why is there so much discussion about this? lol
a) training arena is training arena, dueling arena is the dueling arena. (Furball Lake is a furballing feature, in a arena designed for dueling.)
b) Why would you give anyone a chance to game f3 view, when most of the time, you go to DA for a fair fight, using the same settings as used in the main arena.
c)This isnt a time consuming setting change, it would take admin about 30 seconds to log on, and change it.
d)If you dont care, then why comment?
e)Learn to make the shot from your cockpit, if you need help doing so, ask delirium. ;)
Any external view should be allowed only in offline mode, or the training arena. There isnt a reason to have it enabled. If you want to see your training wheels on your spit16 from the outside, go offline and do it. :aok
+1
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Why is there so much discussion about this? lol
a) training arena is training arena, dueling arena is the dueling arena. (Furball Lake is a furballing feature, in a arena designed for dueling.)
b) Why would you give anyone a chance to game f3 view, when most of the time, you go to DA for a fair fight, using the same settings as used in the main arena.
c)This isnt a time consuming setting change, it would take admin about 30 seconds to log on, and change it.
d)If you dont care, then why comment?
e)Learn to make the shot from your cockpit, if you need help doing so, ask delirium. ;)
Any external view should be allowed only in offline mode, or the training arena. There isnt a reason to have it enabled. If you want to see your training wheels on your spit16 from the outside, go offline and do it. :aok
+3
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Can't you see what views were used from film? So if you are dueling someone, and he or she refuses to trade films with you - or the film shows that external views were used, then.... right?
And other than for dueling, is there anyone who cares?
<S>
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Can't you see what views were used from film? So if you are dueling someone, and he or she refuses to trade films with you - or the film shows that external views were used, then.... right?
And other than for dueling, is there anyone who cares?
<S>
:lol that is the point. It is the Dueling Arena :lol
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If you want external views, film it and watch external view... :aok
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Can't you see what views were used from film? So if you are dueling someone, and he or she refuses to trade films with you - or the film shows that external views were used, then.... right?
And other than for dueling, is there anyone who cares?
<S>
That is not my understanding. I believe you get external views regardless of whether you are flying using external viewing. That is how a lot of the good video guys make those cool AH videos that are posted on youtube. Why does that matter anyway? You can't do anything about it when it counts...during the fight
Changeup
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Who is crying?
The main factor is that the DA is the only place we can go to settle scores and have fair competitions. That in itself should be a good reason to limit the f3 view. It's crazy, the one palce we can go to have a pure 1on1 fight and we can't now even be sure who is 'gaming the game' or not.
The SDL compete in the DA, the Tri-Annual Dueling league competes in there.....these are events that would hopefully not attract someone who wont play fair, but still the fact remains that F3 is available.
PS: to those who say it makes no difference, try fighting in a 109k4 and drawing a high-G lead for a 400yrd shot from inside the cockpit. Or try fighting in anything and geussing where they will pop up from under your nose during your high scissor, instead of tracking them all the way from externals. It makes no difference to the furballing but for high level dueling, it is a big factor.
*shrug*
Got to disagree here bro it makes a huge difference in furballing as well . In the DA when I first started , I used it alot . Never for shooting but for SA . I often wondered why the constant calls to watch this or watch that . Jesus everyone can see it ! It is a huge problem when you try to transition to MA . Suddenly my SA was for crap to put it bluntly . I had to relearn alot . Dedalos it adds nothing to the game imho in the DA . It makes it harder to transition to the MA . I have one question though . One of the things that makes me scratch my head is this . In AW you could remove all of the cockpit art except the front view . Now my recollection could be wrong , I had a pretty bad accident shortly after . In open beta Hitech was in the arena alot and one of the questions I heard was "why can't you remove the artwork in the various views ?" I believe HT answered that feature is one of the things that makes AW so nintendo the visibility and blind spots were part of the trade off when selecting different aircraft . " He then went on to say AH would never offer a RR arena either . Now don't cut me to bits if I have this wrong . Shortly after this I was in a coma ,then dealt with the joys of relearning how to walk ,talk ,tie my shoes, etc, etc . Now isn't it contradictory<on the surface at least> to not be able to remove the artwork yet be able to use F3 mode ? Of course my memory could be all wrong ,there also could be a very valid but unstated reason why HT has decided to have it this way . I have found HTC doesn't always answer questions about why things are the way they are in this game .
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I only stated that about furballs because many people have used the argument that it makes no difference in past threads on this subject.
Great post, I would love to hear a revised answer from ht on this one.
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The DA external views were a big WTF?! for me.
Bring the next gen h2h for the subscribers. I could pay ~15$ easily for it.
I would host only a limited plane set, ammo, fuel, icon & view room only. Been there & done that.
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The DA external views were a big WTF?! for me.
Bring the next gen h2h for the subscribers. I could pay ~15$ easily for it.
I would host only a limited plane set, ammo, fuel, icon & view room only. Been there & done that.
You've got that already in the A v A arena. Its a time-period arena for instance now, its a desert early war arena....no enemy icons are visible...only the a/c when it comes into view. Very very nicely done arena and it makes BnZing a bit more difficult because you can't tell distance as well without icon range. Lots of fun
Changeup
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You've got that already in the A v A arena. Its a time-period arena for instance now, its a desert early war arena....no enemy icons are visible...only the a/c when it comes into view. Very very nicely done arena and it makes BnZing a bit more difficult because you can't tell distance as well without icon range. Lots of fun
Changeup
Thank your for your feedback.
I started the AH at 2000-2001. I cancelled my account already few times.
I'm waiting the next gen h2h only here.
:)
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I only stated that about furballs because many people have used the argument that it makes no difference in past threads on this subject.
Great post, I would love to hear a revised answer from ht on this one.
I seldom disagree with you brother . I thought it important to add the fact that it truly impacts the game in ways that go beyond the DA . I also was hoping for some response from HT on the seeming contradiction in removal of artwork yet allowing F3 .
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I ONLY FLY IN F3 MODE!!!
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Sunbat explained the original reason but the technique is alive and well today because many of those ex H2H players teach their new squad members to fly in F3.
I think flying in opposition to F3-moders makes it clear that it does enhance SA and most especially gunnery.
It's not really a question of having plently of time to learn to fly without it. If you learned in a certain way and practiced for many years AND it brings significant advantages then of course you are not motivated to give it up.
On the one hand I would like to see it go too, but on the other several of these guys have played for many years. Is it not unfair to take their style of play away from them?
It's a strange position for me to represent the rights of certain DA squads and the F3 technique in particular, however many of the DA players do not seem to post on the forum.
I think it's not helpful to address the F3 mode issue in isolation. Perhaps the DA is long overdue for an overhaul but I suggest any changes should also consider the rights and wishes of the DA regulars too.
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Sunbat explained the original reason but the technique is alive and well today because many of those ex H2H players teach their new squad members to fly in F3.
I think flying in opposition to F3-moders makes it clear that it does enhance SA and most especially gunnery.
It's not really a question of having plently of time to learn to fly without it. If you learned in a certain way and practiced for many years AND it brings significant advantages then of course you are not motivated to give it up.
On the one hand I would like to see it go too, but on the other several of these guys have played for many years. Is it not unfair to take their style of play away from them?
It's a strange position for me to represent the rights of certain DA squads and the F3 technique in particular, however many of the DA players do not seem to post on the forum.
I think it's not helpful to address the F3 mode issue in isolation. Perhaps the DA is long overdue for an overhaul but I suggest any changes should also consider the rights and wishes of the DA regulars too.
I agree, but at the same time it was also unfair when they took our style away by turning it on, or when kill shooter was turned on. So, who is more right? No one, right? They have their style we have ours. However, we could use the arena and its purpose as a criteria. It is called the dueling arena so maybe it should cater to dueling, if that is what it was meant to be. If not, why stop at F3? Turn on the calculating sites and unlimited ammo and fuel.
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Idea:
New map for the DA for strictly dueling and along with the collaboration of the AvA enabling F3 mode for the DA regulars, we could #1 have 20 to 30 people up to 60 in the AvA at peek times and at the same time remove f3 from the dueling arena, killing two birds with one stone. What do you guys think cons vs pros?
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We still have a dueling arena? :huh
I stopped going there a long time ago, when I went in there with a squaddie to mess around, and we were chased from field to field to field by grieffers. The DA long ago ceased to be what it used to be, F3 mode or not.
Let it die, and let the unskilled masses feast on its' carcass, if they must.
The bottom line is money, and nothing is going to change in any aspect of the game, if there is a segment of people who want it, and will pay for it. F3 is a prime example. I'm mildly surprised it's not enabled in the MA's, or at least one of them, actually. (Besides the IL2 and A20)
meh :joystick:
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I can make those type of shots without F3.
ack-ack
Oh please do teach us Grand Master Ack-Ack!!! :joystick: :airplane:
:D
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Hmmm, nop. And the fact that you can make those shots does not mean F3 should be available in the DA. I don;t see how the two are related
Batfinkv and I have both made shots like that before. Completely blind just firing as the plane flies in front. You can hear the sound of the plane coming through your speakers. It's rare but it's still possible. More likely though, pilots are shooting looking out the edge of their plane where the wing and the main body meet. From your end it will look blind but they can see you just fine.
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Well I'm new to the forums and reasonably new to AH, but I have gathered that the DA was once a very different place and that a many of the long-term players object to the way the DA is now set up. Whatever the DA once was, I think it should be acknowledged that it is now a sub-community of it's own.
I think belabouring the naming of the Duelling Arena isn't going to get us anywhere. Alright so the furbal lake is in the DA (arbitrarily) but the lake is more populated than the sidefields overall at most times of the day. Can't interchange the names to devalue that.
Not really fair or even objective to keep calling those players 'unskilled masses' and so forth. There are many good sticks at the lake who are trying to learn or improve their ACM.
Rather than name calling and criticising settings and perk planes etc, would it not be better to make some more constructive suggestions, as TnDep has done?
For instance, I myself would love to see a permanent rolling 1 on 1 system there, with perhaps a pan-arena register of those who are availble. Something like the SEA announcements but on a separate channel for instance?
Would this approximate the system that used to exist in the DA? Geographically there is plenty of under-used space in that arena. Surely there is a solution we can some up with where all activities could be catered for without anyone really losing out?
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I heard talk that there is a way to make nose of plane see through. That's how I alwAys thought they did it.
I can't hit the ground if I point my nose straight at it my gunnery so bad. My acm even worse in f3 mode.
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If F3 enhances gunnery, then why can't most people hit the broad side of a barn in there?
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I heard talk that there is a way to make nose of plane see through. That's how I alwAys thought they did it.
I can't hit the ground if I point my nose straight at it my gunnery so bad. My acm even worse in f3 mode.
There is..... when in the DA tap the enter key three times for an unobstructed view.
NOTE..... this has been known to work in all arenas but I have not tested it.
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If F3 enhances gunnery, then why can't most people hit the broad side of a barn in there?
Go try it and use these rules:
1) Set cannons to 650 and machine guns to 500. In turns, short bursts to adjust fire at distances of 600 out are common;
2) When directly behind an adversary, put his plane silouette at the TOP of your rudder at 650 for Brit and German a/c and midway up the rudder for blue planes, lol;
3) While firing in turns, to start, lead a bit more than you would normally and adjust back from there...it will be over in a matter of seconds anyway;
4) When firing from below a plane (wait until you see the site picture of that shot...head to head and he pulls up? In F3 he's toast but without it, you have to time him because you can't see him) lead less and hold the trigger for a bit longer. (With F3 you will still own him if he turns out because you can adjust with rudder or ailerons while you see him turn....without F3, you will miss everytime if he turns either way after pulling up because you can't see him)
5) Pay special attention to how you begin to fly the a/c...you will be making adjustments that enhance your tracers hitting the target that you would normally NEVER make...and you'd miss if you weren't making them.
Don't try it once or twice....try it for about 2 hours and watch your gunnery hit % go up...4 or 5 sorties will do nothing but 40 or 50 sorties and you will get the picture.
Stokes, dont kid yourself, there are plenty of guys in there that don't miss....you just haven't run into them
Changeup
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Batfinkv and I have both made shots like that before. Completely blind just firing as the plane flies in front. You can hear the sound of the plane coming through your speakers. It's rare but it's still possible. More likely though, pilots are shooting looking out the edge of their plane where the wing and the main body meet. From your end it will look blind but they can see you just fine.
Again, no one claims you or Ack are using it. The fact that some can hit like that does not mean F3 mode is ok in the DA. I can hit those shots too once in a while. If anything, it proves that F3 is not needed since with a litle practice you can pull those shots off.
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Simply put....... F3 is for training mode. Should be in TA. If you use it anywhere else your trying to learn.
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Simply put....... F3 is for training mode. Should be in TA. If you use it anywhere else your trying to learn.
+1
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Simply put....... F3 is for training mode. Should be in TA. If you use it anywhere else your trying to learn.
+2
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Simply put....... F3 is for training mode. Should be in TA. If you use it anywhere else your trying to learn.
+3 :noid
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I ONLY FLY IN F3 MODE!!!
... and with no tracers, amirite? :D
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Simply put....... F3 is for training mode. Should be in TA. If you use it anywhere else your trying to learn.
bite your tongue!!!
if they were in training mode, they'd all be in spit16's and hurri2c's. :neener: :noid :neener:
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bite your tongue!!!
if they were in training mode, they'd all be in spit16's and hurri2c's. :neener: :noid :neener:
Your on report....... as soon as I figure out where soulysss put the reports and my crayons.
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Your on report....... as soon as I figure out where soulysss put the reports and my crayons.
my ground crew used something that may have slightly resembled reports to cap the exhaust ports on my peee38.
i used something that may have sorta kinda resembled crayons to draw silly things like "kick me" and "i wear high heels when i'm flying" on some other peeee38's.
we then fed the leftover things that may have sorta resembled crayons(almost) to the squirrels with cameras. they looked hungry.
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I don;t think the B39 pilots should be commenting in this thread. I mean, bombers have F3 mode on in every arena for them :bolt:
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I don;t think the B39 pilots should be commenting in this thread. I mean, bombers have F3 mode on in every arena for them :bolt:
i thought they would have done something by now Dedalos :D this thread is still hot!
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B-38s..... no F3 unless in SAPP Mode.
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B-38s..... no F3 unless in SAPP Mode.
hey!!! you never turned mine on then!! what's the super secret codeword to turn it on??
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hey!!! you never turned mine on then!! what's the super secret codeword to turn it on??
I hear it's not so much a sekret coadword as an add-on you can buy from Wal*Mart for $9.95 ($4.95 during their Rollback dayz). :noid