Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ZetaNine on September 07, 2010, 09:19:36 AM
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disclaimer: I certainly hope this topic is not viewed as "political" as it has nothing to do with politics in any manner. it's about the medical industry.
So...once again over the weekend, I caught myself watching portions of the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon...as I have since I myself was a kid.
I think as I get older..I may either be more jaded...or just more adept in seeing what it...reality.
First off...anyone and everyone..who gives to charity...is to be respected...and applauded. Altruism is a good thing...and that goes for all the people who contribute time and money to any and all potential cures to insidious disease.
I started thinking..as I have in the past..about how much more advanced we are on this planet..with regard to medical research...and with that...I also started thinking about what all these hundreds of millions....dare I say billions of dollars...in research...has gotten us. I'm not talking about money that is given to aid and comfort the ill and infirmed...I'm talking specifically to money going to research...to find cures.
I may be very wrong here...but I don't seem to recall..in my almost 50 years of life here...any radical disease cures...since Jonas Salk...and the polio vaccine.
Salk's breakthrough cure was nothing short of amazing..and with that said...he gave away his patent...for free..and never made a dime off of the actual drug sales.
Let's face it. medical research hires tens of thousands of people...and the industry brings in big bucks..and now the question everyone thinks or has thought about... IS there already a cure from many of these diseases? and because of the vast number of fundraisers, doctors, nurses, care providers, and researchers....these cures have been locked away? Imagine the wonderful impact curing cancer would have on the world. we've ALL had loved ones effected by this. then imagine the millions of people put out of work immediately. the entire oncology industry would vanish. call me a skeptic..or even a delusional paranoid if you want...one thing I learned a long time ago...MONEY TALKS.
wouldn't, for example, a drug manufacturer rather make big money..protracted over time...treating symptoms? rather than a few dollars from a single dose shot that cures a disease forever? I think we all know the answer to that.
Food for thought..but every time I hear Jerry Lewis say "we are so close to a cure".. all these decades later...I can't help but wonder. (not saying jerry is involved whatsoever)
I'm not saying it's true.....but I am saying it would not surprise me if we find out years from now..several diseases had cures already..
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If it was ever found that any company had a cure for a disease and withheld it, that would be the end of that company. My guess is that companies only look for meds that cure the symptoms and not the disease itself.
Semp
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I ONLY have one paranoid statement......
there is no money in cures, while there is massive money in treatment.
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we're light years ahead of where we were with technology since salk cured polio...something is just not right.
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I ONLY have one paranoid statement......
there is no money in cures, while there is massive money in treatment.
i hate to sound harse but Cap is right, more money to be made on the treatment centers and drugs
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You guys watch too much x-files :noid
Drug research is challenging, complex and time consuming. Research scientists don't eat Cornflakes in the morning and poop-out drugs in the afternoon.
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You guys watch too much x-files :noid
Drug research is challenging, complex and time consuming. Research scientists don't eat Cornflakes in the morning and poop-out drugs in the afternoon.
i know that, and i don't watch too much tv.
look at this way.
they cure the common cold. no one gets it now. they've just eliminated a BIG source of income.
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Science, and especially medicine, hits a wall periodically. In a period of about 50 years, with the help of two wars, we went from fabric covered wooden fighter planes, powered by reciprocating engines and pulled through the air by propellers flying at 120 MPH, to all metal jets, capable of speeds exceeding Mach 2. Some 55 years later, there still aren't too many fighter planes much faster than Mach 2 to Mach 2.5.
Much like the science behind aircraft, the science of medicine made leaps and bounds in the first half of the last century. And it has actually kept pace with the the science behind aircraft.
As you pursue any technical goal, the results you achieve in exchange for your efforts rapidly each the point of diminishing returns. The gains are fairly big, at first, and get ever smaller for every period of time you spend.
In addressing the original subject of Jerry Lewis and the MDA, a massive amount of money is spent on improving the lives of those suffering the various diseases that fall under the MD umbrella. For example, when I was building custom vans for the handicapped, I saw what went into a van for a young boy suffering Duchennes MD. The van for that boy rapidly approached $60K. His wheelchair was over $10K. These children (all three boys in his family were afflicted with Duchennes) rarely live past 25. They know about the missing gene in children with Duchennes, but they've not yet been able to splice the gene into these children.
Having been personally involved with some of the things the MDA does, and having seen Jerry Lewis personally attend to the needs of a child and his family fighting (and often losing to) this disease, I have no question in my mind as to their dedication to finding treatments and cures for the diseases they research. Before you question their sincerity and their veracity, try devoting some of your time, and see what really goes on.
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Industry is not that coordinated. Also, it is very difficult to keep a secret among friends; how much more difficult would it be to keep a secret like that? Diseases have already been cured and vaccinations have been released. Why weren't those locked up? The people who develop the cures are not the people who stand to gain from the treatment of the disease; therefore there is no motivation for them to lock up cures. Those are just a few thoughts I had off the top of my head so I would say no, there are not cures locked up somewhere out there.
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i know that, and i don't watch too much tv.
look at this way.
they cure the common cold. no one gets it now. they've just eliminated a BIG source of income.
The "common cold" is an ever evolving virus, that is in a constant state of change. It's a target that not only moves, but rapidly changes to protect itself from whatever you throw at it.
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The "common cold" is an ever evolving virus, that is in a constant state of change. It's a target that not only moves, but rapidly changes to protect itself from whatever you throw at it.
i was only using that as an example, to hopefully not offend anyone by naming a specific disease that they or someone they care about may have or have had.
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i was only using that as an example, to hopefully not offend anyone by naming a specific disease that they or someone they care about may have or have had.
But it was in fact an excellent example.
Think about this. MD is often genetic. Yet DNA shows that many people have genetic traits that make them different genetically from billions of other people on the face of the earth, different enough that DNA can prove to conclusively exclude 10 billion other people as having given that sample. That being the case, a disease affecting genes and genetics can be as different in each of the people it afflicts as the people are from others. So, how do you research that?
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I donated around $10,000 to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation - also because I have that disease. At the last fund raiser we did around $700,000 in donations - which was down about 50% from the previous year. Everyone who says the money is in the treatment is absolutely on the mark. Over my lifetime, I will end up spending around $500,000 just in meds and supplies to keep me alive. If you put the intellectual capital on an artificial pancreas to say a GE - that would be a crash program in 6 months. In the end, what its going to take is for someone who is really well endowed (in the billions) for their kid to get sick - and they will cut a check, and say FIX IT.
That's how it gets done gentlemen.
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Common cold has more than 300 variatios and it kills tens of thousands every year.
Semp
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I donated around $10,000 to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation - also because I have that disease. At the last fund raiser we did around $700,000 in donations - which was down about 50% from the previous year. Everyone who says the money is in the treatment is absolutely on the mark. Over my lifetime, I will end up spending around $500,000 just in meds and supplies to keep me alive. If you put the intellectual capital on an artificial pancreas to say a GE - that would be a crash program in 6 months. In the end, what its going to take is for someone who is really well endowed (in the billions) for their kid to get sick - and they will cut a check, and say FIX IT.
That's how it gets done gentlemen.
that's partly my point.
mom has type 2. i think that's the one ya get from being overweight, and inactive? she was diagnosed with it about 6 years ago. they got her on a bunch of medications for it.
yet, if she'd get out, and do something....even just walking......she'd probably clear up.
my uncle developed type 2 also......within a year of retiring from ups. he was borderline overweight......still borderline overweight, but very inactive now.
neither one of their doctors will tell em to get their tulips out and DO something....they just keep prescribing medications.
i have a friend, and 2 acquaintances that had type 2.......and they all cleared up, when they started doing things.
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But it was in fact an excellent example.
Think about this. MD is often genetic. Yet DNA shows that many people have genetic traits that make them different genetically from billions of other people on the face of the earth, different enough that DNA can prove to conclusively exclude 10 billion other people as having given that sample. That being the case, a disease affecting genes and genetics can be as different in each of the people it afflicts as the people are from others. So, how do you research that?
at the risk of oversimplifying.........
they have to solve one piece first....then go on to the next piece of the puzzle. one piece at a time. eventually they will all fall into place.
that being said, i don't even remotely think the researchers have an easy job.
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I donated around $10,000 to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation - also because I have that disease. At the last fund raiser we did around $700,000 in donations - which was down about 50% from the previous year. Everyone who says the money is in the treatment is absolutely on the mark. Over my lifetime, I will end up spending around $500,000 just in meds and supplies to keep me alive. If you put the intellectual capital on an artificial pancreas to say a GE - that would be a crash program in 6 months. In the end, what its going to take is for someone who is really well endowed (in the billions) for their kid to get sick - and they will cut a check, and say FIX IT.
That's how it gets done gentlemen.
You'd think so. The problem with that theory is that the children of the fabulously wealthy have been, and continue to be, afflicted with all sorts of diseases. There are some things that the human mind just has not yet been able to conquer, and the complexity that is the human body is one of them. When we find out how to actually utilize the potential of the human brain, we will once again make great leaps and bounds towards cures.
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at the risk of oversimplifying.........
they have to solve one piece first....then go on to the next piece of the puzzle. one piece at a time. eventually they will all fall into place.
that being said, i don't even remotely think the researchers have an easy job.
But there are as many pieces as there are people.
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I don't know.. I think people are pointing fingers at the pharmaceutical companies too much. If any of you really had any idea as to how expensive all of this R&D is... well it's like the government (not turning this into a political debate)... but if you try to wrap your mind around how much money it takes.. it's just too much to imagine!
And then you factor in the discounts that the insurance companies demand, and it ends up that the pharmaceuticals really don't make that much money off of the drugs they produce. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall reading some kind of statistic that something like 75% of their profits come from "luxury" medications not covered by insurance... such as Viagra or Cialis. I don't know exactly how true or accurate that is, but I can see how it could be correct.
On top of all of that, I really don't feel that it is the pharmaceutical companies' "job" to be finding cures for diseases. That's what research doctors and biological scientists are for... funded by grants from individuals, companies, and of course, governments.
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I don't know.. I think people are pointing fingers at the pharmaceutical companies too much. If any of you really had any idea as to how expensive all of this R&D is... well it's like the government (not turning this into a political debate)... but if you try to wrap your mind around how much money it takes.. it's just too much to imagine!
And then you factor in the discounts that the insurance companies demand, and it ends up that the pharmaceuticals really don't make that much money off of the drugs they produce. As a matter of fact, I seem to recall reading some kind of statistic that something like 75% of their profits come from "luxury" medications not covered by insurance... such as Viagra or Cialis. I don't know exactly how true or accurate that is, but I can see how it could be correct.
On top of all of that, I really don't feel that it is the pharmaceutical companies' "job" to be finding cures for diseases. That's what research doctors and biological scientists are for... funded by grants from individuals, companies, and of course, governments.
Great post. I worked for a pharmaceutical research company for nine years (as IT granted, but I got to sit in on meetings where things such as this were discussed), and its quite clear that most people who complain about the cost of drugs just don't "get it".
However, it is also somewhat true that the United States researches and pays for drugs that the entire world benefits from basically for free. There are foreign drug research firms but not nearly on the same scale as the industry in the US, especially when you compare population sizes. It just happens to be something not so easily outsourced. The good news is that the rest of the world sends their best and brightest here, which has many benefits for us, but if I elaborate much on the H1-B visa and immigration, we'll soon run into a rule violation for these forums. Lets just say I agree with Bill Gates.
And the other thing I'll add is that all the low hanging fruit has already been picked.
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at the very least.......I am stunned that there have been no major disease cures since........ the cure of polio.
and that cure....... was not funded by big money.
the goal is pure.....perhaps the map to get there has been perverted by money.
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If you give a little time researching you will find hundreds and even thousands of great examples of recent medicines and treatments. The first that comes to mind is AIDs treatments, AIDs used to be a death sentence, and as of today, people can live high quality fruitful lives. There is even a workings AIDs vaccine being tested by the US Army in Thailand.
How about cancer treatments? The majority of cancers are no longer considered terminal diseases. We've done more in the last 20 years than in all of human history.
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Or how about linking cervical cancer with HPV, and how about the HPV vaccine? How about the morning after pill, a birth control pill that does not affect implantation, a "cure" for abortion? Work in organ transplants, hand transplants....etc.
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If you give a little time researching you will find hundreds and even thousands of great examples of recent medicines and treatments. The first that comes to mind is AIDs treatments, AIDs used to be a death sentence, and as of today, people can live high quality fruitful lives. There is even a workings AIDs vaccine being tested by the US Army in Thailand.
How about cancer treatments? The majority of cancers are no longer considered terminal diseases. We've done more in the last 20 years than in all of human history.
cancer took my grandmother 15 years ago.
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cancer took my grandmother 15 years ago.
Took my grandfather 15 year ago as well, sorry for your loss CAP.
Each cancer is a pretty unique disease, there will never be a single cure for cancer, each one will have to be treated differently.
We also have to remember humans weren't designed to live much past 30 let alone into our 80s and 90s. That alone is quite a medical feat, but there are consequences for it.
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Took my grandfather 15 year ago as well, sorry for your loss CAP.
Each cancer is a pretty unique disease, there will never be a single cure for cancer, each one will have to be treated differently.
We also have to remember humans weren't designed to live much past 30 let alone into our 80s and 90s. That alone is quite a medical feat, but there are consequences for it.
yea, i know. it just seemed to hit so suddenly.....one visit to the dr, she was fine, next one, she had lumps here and there....they admitted her into the hospital, and it went rapidly downhill from there.
the loss of her, and of my grandfather are the only things in my adult life that ever brought me to tears....and if i think long enough about it, it still can. they were the absolute 2 most important people in my life. without them, i'd not be half of the man i am now.......if i was still alive........
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I had a customer that worked in drug research years back, and he said that it took close to 30 years for one drug he had worked on to reach the public. I do agree with CAP1's statement though.
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I worked for MDA for nearly a decade.
I admit to having a healthy cynicism looking at their super nice office complex, well paid executives etc.
You know what though? They have to compete with the corporate world for the best employees, They don't want inexpensive, but ineffective people running the show.
Their office building? Very nice, but they did move their national headquarters from NYC to Tucson, Arizona
as a cost cutting measure.
All I can say is that the employees all the way up to the CEO, were extraordinarily dedicated to the cause and to the people the organization serves.
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I'm absolutely convinced that EVERYONE associated with MDA is after a cure...no doubt in my mind.
it's the researchers they ...and other charities ...fund, who I wonder about.
again I want to reiterate...I am talking about an all out CURE to major diseases.
let's face it... it someone agreed to hand you $100 bills through your window... every five seconds...until you successfully told them how to make the color purple... how long would you wait to tell them mix red and blue?
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I'm absolutely convinced that EVERYONE associated with MDA is after a cure...no doubt in my mind.
it's the researchers they ...and other charities ...fund, who I wonder about.
again I want to reiterate...I am talking about an all out CURE to major diseases.
let's face it... it someone agreed to hand you $100 bills through your window... every five seconds...until you successfully told them how to make the color purple... how long would you wait to tell them mix red and blue?
The beauty of capitalism is things like medicines and cures can be made into profits. No profits, and hardly anyone is going to spend the reasearch and money on them.
Conversely, if you don't come through on new medicines and treatments, you don't make money.
Pretty simple equation in my mind