Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: doomed on September 07, 2010, 06:47:12 PM
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cant keep a cable connection for over 30 minutes lately so been in ava more and more. Our squad has made a comitment to fly here more but i will tell you why most stay away. There needs to be a limited icon range. Maybe 600 or so but sorry but thats a fact.
Most guys might give up there perk ride for a fun arena but its no fun fighting a guy that dives to the deck and you cant see him cuz your eyes aint 20/20. a very short icon range will increase the fun and take the fight off the deck.
This is just my opinion but ive head many many others say the same. A short icon range will help the ava arena.
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No enemy icons is a setting that some people feel increases "immersion" provides a new kind of challenge and really sets the arena apart from all others.
When I first started flying in AvA the icons were on and there were fewer people in it than there are these days.
If it was felt that the no icons setting was deterring more people than it is attracting, it would have been changed back long ago.
It's not for everyone, but the general consensus is that having an AvA arena with enemy Icons off is more of a draw than having one with them on.
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It's not for everyone, but the general consensus is that having an AvA arena with enemy Icons off is more of a draw than having one with them on.
True. Doomed, the no-icon thing does take a few hours of flying to get used to (I figure four as a general target). If someone is willing to invest that amount of time, it really does make a huge difference. As Humble has said elsewhere, suddenly the WWII accounts you've read make a lot more sense.
- oldman
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I believe Doomed has been flying AvA for awhile now, so I don't think experience is the issue for him.
Perhaps playing with video settings may help some and higher resolution isn't necessarily better.
I saw the enemy AC better on my old obsolete system, than I do now with a fairly good one.
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Doomed and i chatted about this a little earlier on 200 and we agreed to disagree. If any icon range was to be turned on at all might as well call it another colored MA IMHO. It would just be another MA with a limited plane set and give 99% of players no reason to leave the cannon wagon perk rides they love so much in the MA.. Again just my opinion but I know the total difference in arenas is the reason i have spent so much time in the AvA the last few days and plan on calling it my new home so to speak. The limited plane set has forced me to learn new planes i never would have picked in the MA. The lack of enemy icon and even short range friendly icons add an extra level of difficulty and realism that is unmatched in any other arena. And to be honest the vast majority of players that are turned off because of the no icon and lack of perk ride are the players the AvA group does not want. We can get picked, hoed and horded in all the other arenas.
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To quote (Tricky) Oldman's post; "suddenly the WWII accounts you've read make a lot more sense". :aok And be assured, the accounts from the Korean War, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc. will all back that up. If I'm off base here, please correct me, but AHII is a WWII and WWI air combat game, or maybe a better description is simulation, with historically accurate aircraft, weapons, etc.
In any air combat of the past or in the future, it's not based on a "meet me and my buds at 20,000 feet over the river and we will duke it out from there" scenario. Air Combat is not a chess game played on a level playing surface. It is conflict in the air taking what ever advantage is available to kill the other guy. If that means diving to the deck to lose your opponent and his 2 or 3 buds, so be it. If it means pitching up vertically in your superior climbing ride to outrun your opponent, so be it. Air Combat is all about dealing with rapidly changing situations, countering them, and moving on to the next conflict.
The AVA setup with no icons is evolving into a very near world scenario. Having icons to make it easy to close on your opponent and get the kill doesn't seem to fit in with the reality that the AVA staffers are so skillfully working toward. It seems that most everyone who has come into the "no icon" scenario has had the 3-4 hour learning curve that Jimson and others have mentioned and have come to appreciate the reality of actual air combat. Use of a historically accurate gunsight can provide an effective method of ranging to an opponent.
There are some who have gravitated to the AVA's no icon setup (me for one) to escape the horde mentality that sometimes develops in the 11 other arenas that have full up icons available 24/7. It's been my observation that the AVA numbers have increased due to the reality experienced with no icons, and of course, Ranger's awesome Twin Rivers terrain. Giving the no icon setup some time and a fair try out is sure to provide a better immersion into real world air combat. Thinking about it in basic terms, we have very accurate aircraft to fly and they have these big neon signs above them. Historically accurate? :airplane: Yes, the icons are a necessity designed in by HTC and company and give fledgling aviators in the game a big boost in situational awareness. But, for those who have developed a level of in game experience and desire more immersion..........well, there's the AVA.
And yes, we all have different computer systems, monitors, etc. that require all of us to deal with many limitations and issues. Me, I deal with it, adapt, overcome (yeah, a little Clint Eastwood) and enjoy the great efforts of HTC and his gang, to include the AVA staff. Thanks again, Gents! :aok :salute
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Grumpy,
Ya forgot vulching :lol Recieved my first AVA vulch :O tonight. Apparently a sign of desperation when it was 14 of them against 8 of us. :salute
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where do i get my historically accurate gunsight...... :furious
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<EDIT>For the last 2 years we had icons on, and no one came in. people even asked why HTC didnt just shut down the AVA or use it for something else. So now we get a bit creative and we turn off icons and get a new map in there and all of a sudden we get a large influx of people that really enjoy playing with the no enemy icons and like it.
now we have 2 or 3 players that are requesting that we put icons back or make them limited range? where were you guys 2 years ago?
with the no icons, i get picked, i get nailed from afar, i even get ho'ed. i learn to fly and fight while looking over my shoulder or hoping the guys around me will help keep an eye on my back! i am very vocal about check 6's and i hope that other people will respond in kind. one must learn to adjust to this particular part of the game. maybe you should read the book "who moved my cheese"! its the same thing. one must be fluid and learn to adjust, rather then always force things back to status quo.
instead of complaining about it, why not grab someone you don't know, and ask them to work with you, to cover your 6 as a wing-man. this way you have someone to help you hopefully, and you might make a new friend in the process. this would make it easier for you, and maybe you would have a new potential squaddie in the making.
where do i get my historically accurate gunsight...... :furious
grumpy, i have a large file full of gunsites squirreled away somewhere. my computer crashed last night, but i think i have them online. if i do, i can send you the file.
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If you put out limited enemy icons, then people will ask for even more icon range. You guys might try one week with AVA icons set to MA standards and see if it would bring more people in... I doubt it because the bad reputation limited planeset and low player numbers is really what most people don't like. At least you'd know for sure and you could say you gave it a shot and put the debate over icons to bed. Just a thought.
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<EDIT>
grumpy, i have a large file full of gunsites squirreled away somewhere. my computer crashed last night, but i think i have them online. if i do, i can send you the file.
Sweet, then i could blame you for my poor gunnery... :x
If you put out limited enemy icons, then people will ask for even more icon range. You guys might try one week with AVA icons set to MA standards and see if it would bring more people in... I doubt it because the bad reputation limited planeset and low player numbers is really what most people don't like. At least you'd know for sure and you could say you gave it a shot and put the debate over icons to bed. Just a thought.
I think its funny, if everyone that complained about it not having enough people in it came in they would probably need to put a cap on it........ And for the ones the complain about the limited planeset, go out on a limb and learn something new. Just cause its not the ubber plane doesnt mean it wont be fun to fly.
Forgot my :salute to Doomed... Hope you stay around, lots of fun fights.
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On the topic of Icons I have a question, would it be possible to turn off or turn down enemy Gv icons? I don't know if that's an adjustable setting but it would be nice if it is to have it changed. AvA has been great fun with no Plane Icons and the current map but the GV icons on make GV fights a bit....annoying. :P
Just my opinion/question of course. :)
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I'm not asking for icons a mile away and Ive been in ava solid for well over a month now. Its not seeing the bad guys, believe me i get and land my fair share of kills and usually die as the result of a collision or HO(just ask seadog who is mad at me). Let me see if i can put it another way. Everyone wants realism and no icons but have no problem with a radar ring the size of Texas covering the entire map that can be seen while flying and if i recall most ww2 aircraft did not have operational air to air radar. So now that the we love the realism thing seems less important what I'm trying to say is this is my experience and ALOT of my squads,some of who wont even play here now. You take off and climb to alt wich isn't much because the bases are on top of each other but maybe 10k or so and you see the con who is almost allways a green colored aircraft. You engage and get the drop on him. BOOM he hits the deck and since this is a game and not a real 3d world it becomes very very hard to pick up a guy that you was on because of a non real world environment and you spend the next frantic 20 seconds looking for him to no avail as he is back at base. What I'm saying is NO icons till about 600 that way once you have engaged someone and pass each other and he hits the deck you dint have to pray he dint blend in perfect and strain your eyes looking for him. This would not effect a bounce or SA or anything it would just help to encourage a fight to last till the end that is all.
If we want realism than reduce the dar ring and dint allow you to see the dar while in flight. I'm just saying lol.
I respect all your views and opinions and will still play there from time to time but you guys allways ask in the forums how to improve or bring in a crowd and FSO style icon range could help.
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"he hits the deck and since this is a game and not a real 3d world it becomes very very hard to pick up a guy that you was on because of a non real world environment and you spend the next frantic 20 seconds looking for him"
Guess what? It's exactly like that in the real 3D world, frantic. That's the reason it's called a dogfight. Surely you don't expect this guy that you just got the drop on to just hang there and let you have him. It's combat and that means you or he goes home, not both. It's all about gaining the advantage on the other guy and then pounding him in the dirt. If you get the drop on me, I'm going to do everything I can to counter and get the drop on you. Ya want to climb out to the Hootasphere? Climb out away from your base and the threat and just do it. Air Combat, by it's nature, is not fair by any stretch of the imagination. If someone is going to play in the arena, in game or real world, they have to deal with all the limitations, advantages, and just plain bad luck.
The AVA staff appear to be trying to make it real world as much as possible. That includes, no icons, dust storms, hazy sky, etc. Yeah, the radar rings are an issue. So are a lot of things. But, again it's a matter of just dealing with it and having fun. After all, it's only a game, it only costs $14.95 a month, and offers 12 arenas to play in. Why is it so important to make the AVA just like the rest of the arenas?
This afternoon the AVA had several who were intent on spraying golden juice on each other for "who cares" issues. It was almost time to call 9-whine-whine and roll a whambulance.
I have to agree with others who have said that if the AVA doesn't suit a person's needs, feel free to go to one of the other arenas. There is way less realism, way more icons, and hordes. :salute
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Doomed obviously hasn't gotten the hang of judging distance with the no enemy icons. At D600 you can tell what kind of airplane it is that you're looking at, and using the zoom button it's possible to identify a con out to almost D1000, especially if it's a twin engine or bigger. There are a lot of little things you have to make yourself do in order to spot someone regardless of whether they are above, below or level to your position. The dar settings are in place because people complained that they don't want to fly around for an hour looking for a fight, so that argument isn't getting off the the starting line. Using age as a reason for wanting icons is b.s. since most of us who like the AvA the way it is are over 40 and suffer from some sort of vision issue that comes with age. Quality of the computer isn't much of an argument because I know a couple of people who are not using high end computers and do quite well in the AvA.
And last but not least, believe it or not, the FSO would be almost the same settings as the AvA if it weren't for the fact that 400 of the 450 people who participate regularly would quit if happened.
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omg i give up on explaining to you people what im trying to get at so nvm. Have fun and good luck chile and friends. :salute
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omg i give up on explaining to you people what im trying to get at so nvm. Have fun and good luck chile and friends. :salute
Hasn't changed a bit...still throwing temper tantrums.
We know what you're saying, obviously you can't see what being said to you.
I'm not asking for icons a mile away and Ive been in ava solid for well over a month now. Its not seeing the bad guys, believe me i get and land my fair share of kills and usually die as the result of a collision or HO(just ask seadog who is mad at me). Let me see if i can put it another way. Everyone wants realism and no icons but have no problem with a radar ring the size of Texas covering the entire map that can be seen while flying and if i recall most ww2 aircraft did not have operational air to air radar.
You obviously haven't noticed that even if the radar tower is taken out on a base, you can still see the little red dots. The radar settings are there because people don't want to fly 500 miles across a map to find a fight. It's not about in plane radar. Just like the icons in the other arenas, it's a necessary evil.
So now that the we love the realism thing seems less important what I'm trying to say is this is my experience and ALOT of my squads,some of who wont even play here now. You take off and climb to alt wich isn't much because the bases are on top of each other but maybe 10k or so and you see the con who is almost allways a green colored aircraft. You engage and get the drop on him. BOOM he hits the deck and since this is a game and not a real 3d world it becomes very very hard to pick up a guy that you was on because of a non real world environment and you spend the next frantic 20 seconds looking for him to no avail as he is back at base. What I'm saying is NO icons till about 600 that way once you have engaged someone and pass each other and he hits the deck you dint have to pray he dint blend in perfect and strain your eyes looking for him. This would not effect a bounce or SA or anything it would just help to encourage a fight to last till the end that is all.
The bases are situated close together for the same reason as the dot dar settings. If you want to get higher alt before you get into the fray, fly away from the fight first, just common sense. Losing sight of a plane that suddenly dove out of a fight to 5000 feet below you and has a paint job that blends in with the terrain, can't get any more real than that. It's very difficult to see a problem there, other than you got frustrated because you were denied a kill.
If we want realism than reduce the dar ring and dint allow you to see the dar while in flight. I'm just saying lol.
I respect all your views and opinions and will still play there from time to time but you guys allways ask in the forums how to improve or bring in a crowd and FSO style icon range could help.
How long are you and the rest of your squad willing to fly in order to find someone to shoot at? No one has asked you that yet. With the maps that are normally used, you could carry drop tanks and run out of fuel before you find someone to shoot at. The reduced radar was tried for a very short time and the mistake was very apparent on the BoB map, where we spent more time chasing friendlies than fighting, and the friendly icon settings were 2k.
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Well said Gyrene. On the mark. :aok :salute
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Remember no matter what you prefer everybody is entitled to their opinion. And opinions were solicited by a staffer (eeww gives me the wileys calling him that) so don't be overly concerned about telling people how they are wrong, don't get it, etc.. If you like the no-icons the best thing to do is fly in the AvA and offer help when help is asked. The no-icons are only the spark, no matter the setting it will always be the community that is the back-bone of the AvA. The staffers can only do so much, the majority is up to us. :salute
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Hats off for a fantastic new map! I really like the no enemy icon scenario and the spawn distances and scale are excellent. Makes for some great fights! Maybe a shorter radar coverage even. I enjoyed the late war rides over the weekend~ looking forward to your winter and pacific arenas~ and hoping they will feature D-11 jugs in the plane set! :salute :salute :salute
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Remember no matter what you prefer everybody is entitled to their opinion. And opinions were solicited by a staffer, so don't be overly concerned about telling people how they are wrong, don't get it, etc.. If you like the no-icons the best thing to do is fly in the AvA and offer help when help is asked. The no-icons are only the spark, no matter the setting it will always be the community that is the back-bone of the AvA. The staffers can only do so much, the majority is up to us. :salute
small edit by TC
nicely put, Bug :aok
Heya Gyrene, I am not attempting to argue with you , I just want to quote something you posted to confirm my thoughts..
believe it or not, the FSO would be almost the same settings as the AvA if it weren't for the fact that 400 of the 450 people who participate regularly would quit if happened.
This is what I was trying to explain in another thread...... The people in the AvA have changed again..
so now Players who like this particular setup with no enemy icons is ruling the roost.
verses those who liked it when it was mission based...
before then it was those who wanted to rule the AvA roost with their squads and roll base radars before their squad night started. so the opposing side could not see them or see where they would be attacking before it was too late
before that..... I hope people are starting to get my 11 +/- yrs experiences now......
the only things that have not really changed is some of the old guard still hangs in there, and the old AvsA Staffers still try to keep the peace and make it a more polite arena.....
but most all of the newer participants were not in the AvsA 6 months to 1 yr ago, 2 yrs ago, 3 or more yrs ago...... and alot of them in there now might even be the newer ones to AH vs people who have been here for yrs on end......
I am just happy that the AvsA Staffers never give up, and have that will to keep going to keep the AvsA populated....
:salute :cheers:
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originally posted by doomed:
...a radar ring the size of Texas covering the entire map that can be seen while flying...
I would like to see dot dar and dar bar in the tower (what we have now) and only dar bar enabled while a player is in-flight. My understanding is that the lead special event CM talked to Hitech at the last con about this idea and it has since been implemented.
The other thing to remember is that AH has very limited icon settings for the CM’s to work with. I believe we have “normal” (main arena setting) “short” which is what’s used in special events (I think these are about half that of the main) and icons off. In an ideal situation, range, closure/departure, plane type and country color could all be set to turn off and on individually.
For example:
3000yds closure/departure icon on; this would be a neutral color + or – indicating whether you’re closing or departing with the bogey.
2000yds closure icon off and range icon on; this would be neutral color icon showing the range between you and the bogey.
1500yds range icon changes from neutral to country color.
1000yds range icon off and plane type icon on with country color.
500yds all icons off.
IMO the ability to adjust icon settings and the sophistication of the icon system itself is the most under developed aspect of this game.
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Something I find almost insulting is when people say AVA regs are 'elitists'. Most of you have tolerated me on and off for 5 years or so and I'm the most non elitist player I know. So why would I choose to associate with 'elitists'? It boggles my mind.
:salute AVA staff and regs and beware... I've almost got my revamped box dialed in. TD put some sparrows and aamrams on my rides ... :D
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So why do you associate with elitists? Ya lost me..
Is the ditch weed in bloom in Texas? :rolleyes:
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step away from the shot glass Bug... :D
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The last 2 weeks have been fun in AVA
Personaly I really like the "no enemy icon" aspect of it. When I'm in other arenas I turn off the icons now. To me it adds a little more realism to the whole fight.
Why pick a decent camo' if a RED icon going to give you away. AvA gives you a chance to use the skin with the terrain. Also <S> to USRangers map. I think the sky is Top!!
Unfortunately for me tho', my graphics are limited to the extent that I have to play with minimal settings. The other night(Weds) it got worse, all planes just showed as black squares, even when close in it was just a black square with wings sticking out.
Got myself a new vid card today. I think the other one is well cooked and will see what happens when I shove it in.
Anyways, <S> to all who've made AvA a fun place to be the last couple of weeks.
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originally posted by doomed:I would like to see dot dar and dar bar in the tower (what we have now) and only dar bar enabled while a player is in-flight. My understanding is that the lead special event CM talked to Hitech at the last con about this idea and it has since been implemented.
we could do it in the AVA but it makes finding the fight harder, and no icons is hard enough at this point. we have tried it though.
The other thing to remember is that AH has very limited icon settings for the CM’s to work with. I believe we have “normal” (main arena setting) “short” which is what’s used in special events (I think these are about half that of the main) and icons off. In an ideal situation, range, closure/departure, plane type and country color could all be set to turn off and on individually.
For example:
3000yds closure/departure icon on; this would be a neutral color + or – indicating whether you’re closing or departing with the bogey.
2000yds closure icon off and range icon on; this would be neutral color icon showing the range between you and the bogey.
1500yds range icon changes from neutral to country color.
1000yds range icon off and plane type icon on with country color.
500yds all icons off.
we can only mess with icons as far as distance goes. closure/departure is automatic. icon color is the color set as default or if the player customizes it, whatever color they make it. there is no color code based on distance. we can make icons 6k+ or right down to 0. we can adjust height so that below a certain alt, the icons disappear.
that's the extent of what we can do.
IMO the ability to adjust icon settings and the sophistication of the icon system itself is the most under developed aspect of this game.
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I'm not asking for icons a mile away...What I'm saying is NO icons till about 600 that way once you have engaged someone and pass each other and he hits the deck you dint have to pray he dint blend in perfect and strain your eyes looking for him.
Hi Doomed,
Since your first post that I am not understanding your point. It may be me, I'm not english, I may be missing something in translation. But you want the icons to kick in at D600. But if the con extends towards the deck he will be at D600 plus... his icon will be gone by then... What you really want is that is icon "lights up" at, lets say, 1k. But that's exactly what we want to avoid with no enemy icons, right?
I know that some planes camo are really hard to spot, I also have a hard time spotting them, I'm running a very low end machine here... But for my experience - I've been here for a while - I like no icons better. Maybe a little bit more leach on the friendly icons but it's a side issue.
I hope you stay around. And that your mates come back and decide to make an extra effort. We need people that enjoys something other than base captures and late war models on both sides.
<S>
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Why pick a decent camo' if a RED icon going to give you away. AvA gives you a chance to use the skin with the terrain. Also <S> to USRangers map. I think the sky is Top!!
This is the problem for me. Camoflage was meant to hide the plane while sitting on the ground, and the light underside to hide a high flying aircraft from ground observers. It was never designed to, nor ever could, cause a moving plane to simply disappear while a pilot 1000 yards away is staring right at him. But it happens to me regularly with the icons off.
Just zoom in? Yes, that is fine because it at least approaches the size of what a RL pilot would see. But then you have tunnel vision, which is not something a RL pilot would experience.
As for the current high numbers . . . I hope I'm wrong, but I predict the novelty of no icons will eventually wear off, just like the novelty of missions wore off, and the novelty of the EWA wore off, and the novelty of the WWI arenas wore off . . . But best of luck to you.
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Had a nice (very quick, in his favor) fight with Doomed this evening. He had to leave. Subsequently had several good, long fights with RufLeak, right out of the old AvA days, switching planes, switching sides, never knowing who was going to make the first mistake, enjoying it all even if it was you. Good times, hope he stays with us.
- oldman
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If you want to learn how to use a traditional gunsight reticle to judge distance go offline. Get behind a drone and see how it relates to the width of your reticle's circle or a horizontal line in the reticle. Most reticle circle's diameters equate roughly to a 39ft wingspan at 200 yards. So a radius is 400 yards. And so forth. Then turn off icons offline and start shooting drones.
The british M2 ring is 70mil wide with an upper and lower vertical line that stops at the ring. The horizontal line passes through the ring and has a space in the middle with a dot. The space in the center between the horizontal lines is about a 39ft wing span at 350-400 yards. The width of the horizontal space could be opened or closed to account for range based on a 39 ft wingspan.
The german revi ring is about 70mil. Three of the horizontal line ticks are about a 39ft wing span at aprox 350-400 yards. By the way I found out recently that hub mounted 109 cannon were set at 400 meters along with hood mounted MG. FW the 20mm in wing root and gondola were set to 550 meters. If you use a traditional Revi gunsight the multitiude of tick marks make lots of sense with those settings. Has to do with the slow rate of fire and high slow lobbed trajectory in the german cannons.
The american N9(P51B), L3(P38J,L) and N3-B(P38G,P39,P40) ring and dot is 70mil. The ring is a 39 ft wing at about 300-350 yards.
The american Mk8 has a 100mil ring and an inner 50mil ring, full cross with lower 45deg rays. The 100mil ring is about a 39ft wingspan at 333 yards. 50mil about 600yards.
The russian PBP1 has an 80mil ring with a 56mil inner ring and full cross. The inner cross has hash marks at about 5mil. Inner ring is a 39ft wing at about 350-400 yards.
The japanese Type98, Type3 are based on an F6F, P39, P40 wingspan at 300 yards.
See a pattern emerging.....many players do not realise that they don't track the other aircraft visualy. They track the icon and it's yardage counter because it's big bright and red. During close in dogfights they rely on the big red icon to save them from having to pay very close visual attention to the aircraft they are fighting until trigger time. This reliance on the red yardage counter for gunnery solutions is part of the reason some players have trouble with no-Icon mode.
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Had a nice (very quick, in his favor) fight with Doomed this evening. He had to leave. Subsequently had several good, long fights with RufLeak, right out of the old AvA days, switching planes, switching sides, never knowing who was going to make the first mistake, enjoying it all even if it was you. Good times, hope he stays with us.
- oldman
A great time, Oldman.
The AvA is a lot of fun in its current form. Doom does have a point about losing brown planes on the deck. It might give people with bigger screens or better graphics cards an advantage.
On the other hand, it also strengthens the immersion. Lose sight, lose the fight. Oldman schooled me on that the other night.
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From captian1ma about turning off in-flight dot dar:
we could do it in the AVA but it makes finding the fight harder, and no icons is hard enough at this point. we have tried it though.
I didn't know this had already been tried. Sorry I missed it. Making things harder is relative. To some, harder = more effort, more of a challenge and ultimately more fun. To others it's just something that gets in the way of pulling the trigger. Like no icons, some players prefer a neon sign over the bad guy saying "here he is". Some folks want a GPS map that shows them the exact location of every bad guy at all times and some don't. Flying with in-flight dot dar off is no different than flying with your base's radar porked, which we've all done routinely in the past.
posted by bustr:
...They track the icon and it's yardage counter because it's big bright and red. During close in dogfights they rely on the big red icon to save them from having to pay very close visual attention to the aircraft they are fighting until trigger time...
This is right on. :aok
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This is the problem for me. Camouflage was meant to hide the plane while sitting on the ground, and the light underside to hide a high flying aircraft from ground observers. It was never designed to, nor ever could, cause a moving plane to simply disappear while a pilot 1000 yards away is staring right at him. But it happens to me regularly with the icons off.
Ahhh...not sure where you get your facts from, if they are facts, or opinion. Camouflage is primarily intended/designed to make aircraft less visible in flight, i.e. blend in with the background that it is being observed against. Why? Because the pilot is in a combat situation and needs to be concealed in order to gain the advantage on his adversary, i.e. LOSE SIGHT, LOSE FIGHT.
In the early days, aircraft on the ground were hidden in hangars, stands of foliage, or covered with netting/foliage in an attempt to conceal them.
The camouflage on an aircraft doesn't often hide it very well on the ground because of being parked on a hard, flat surface be it paved or a field.
Just zoom in? Yes, that is fine because it at least approaches the size of what a RL pilot would see. But then you have tunnel vision, which is not something a RL pilot would experience.
Not sure exactly what you are intending to say here. Assuming "RL" means "real", the size a real life pilot sees an aircraft is purely dependent on the distance the aircraft is seen. Tunnel vision? Something a real pilot would not experience? Sorry, but you are way off base here and not at all accurate . By the way, are you a "RL" pilot?
As for the current high numbers . . . I hope I'm wrong, but I predict the novelty of no icons will eventually wear off, just like the novelty of missions wore off, and the novelty of the EWA wore off, and the novelty of the WWI arenas wore off . . . But best of luck to you. For the players who enjoy the reality, immersion, challenge, and fun of no icons, I predict continued use of no icons. :salute
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This is the problem for me. Camoflage was meant to hide the plane while sitting on the ground, and the light underside to hide a high flying aircraft from ground observers. It was never designed to, nor ever could, cause a moving plane to simply disappear while a pilot 1000 yards away is staring right at him. But it happens to me regularly with the icons off.
Just zoom in? Yes, that is fine because it at least approaches the size of what a RL pilot would see. But then you have tunnel vision, which is not something a RL pilot would experience.
As for the current high numbers . . . I hope I'm wrong, but I predict the novelty of no icons will eventually wear off, just like the novelty of missions wore off, and the novelty of the EWA wore off, and the novelty of the WWI arenas wore off . . . But best of luck to you.
I'm not a real pilot by any means and I'm not one of these elite computer pilots I keep reading about. During my 16 years in the USAF I was lucky enough to get a few rides in tactical aircraft. Twice I was lucky enough to be along for mock dogfights. Once in F-16B's and once in A-37s. You'd be surprised how hard it is to pick out another aircraft especially one lower than you moving against the the ground clutter. Camouflage is not intended to just conceal aircraft on the ground. The darker colors on top are to blend in with the ground when viewed from above just as the lighter colors on the bottom are an attempt to provide some concealment when viewed from below. Aircraft camouflage was never intended to make the aircraft invisible, but it was intended to make them harder to spot even for a second or two providing the pilot a chance to move to a favorable position or make an escape.
Like anybody else I can be standing in my back yard or driving in my car and see an aircraft flying straight and level a mile away and ID it. However I was shocked how hard it was to keep track and sight of the another aircraft while we were fighting. I'd lose sight of them very easily could only pick them up when the pilot would tell me where they were and what to look for. The second time in the A-37 I thought I'd do better but still struggled to see the other aircraft quickly. Both pilots explained to me it takes time experience training to acquire the skill. That's why they were fighter pilots and I was a crew chief. Now I'm not saying no enemy icons is more realistic, I am saying that the majority of people who spout off about how easily they can identify and spot aircraft from miles away are not doing it while twisting and turning in an aircraft themselves. This is my experience as a simple wrench bender, I do not claim to be a teh 3liTe pilet in real life or this sim.
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However I was shocked how hard it was to keep track and sight of the another aircraft while we were fighting.
It's tough even when people aren't fighting. The sky is a very big place, your airplane covers a lot of it up and everyone is moving along at speeds much faster than you're used to on the ground. Anything smaller than an airliner or a blimp is hard to spot in the first place, and easy to lose sight of if you take your eyes off it for even a moment.
- oldman
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I enjoy how it cancels out a little of the alt advantage the high alt pickers have with the icons off. Higher alt planes stick out a lot more against Rangers' awesome sky. I find I hear other planes sneaking up behind me first and hope I happen to break hard in the right direction. Oiling an opponent really helps spot them too, though if you are on the other end it's time to limp home fast, everyone swoops in for the cheap blind kill!
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I'm not a real pilot by any means and I'm not one of these elite computer pilots I keep reading about. During my 16 years in the USAF I was lucky enough to get a few rides in tactical aircraft. Twice I was lucky enough to be along for mock dogfights. Once in F-16B's and once in A-37s. You'd be surprised how hard it is to pick out another aircraft especially one lower than you moving against the the ground clutter. Camouflage is not intended to just conceal aircraft on the ground. The darker colors on top are to blend in with the ground when viewed from above just as the lighter colors on the bottom are an attempt to provide some concealment when viewed from below. Aircraft camouflage was never intended to make the aircraft invisible, but it was intended to make them harder to spot even for a second or two providing the pilot a chance to move to a favorable position or make an escape.
Like anybody else I can be standing in my back yard or driving in my car and see an aircraft flying straight and level a mile away and ID it. However I was shocked how hard it was to keep track and sight of the another aircraft while we were fighting. I'd lose sight of them very easily could only pick them up when the pilot would tell me where they were and what to look for. The second time in the A-37 I thought I'd do better but still struggled to see the other aircraft quickly. Both pilots explained to me it takes time experience training to acquire the skill. That's why they were fighter pilots and I was a crew chief. Now I'm not saying no enemy icons is more realistic, I am saying that the majority of people who spout off about how easily they can identify and spot aircraft from miles away are not doing it while twisting and turning in an aircraft themselves. This is my experience as a simple wrench bender, I do not claim to be a teh 3liTe pilet in real life or this sim.
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for example:
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/AIR_F-16C_in_No-KA2_lg.jpg)
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/AIR_F-16_in_KA2-Desert_lg.jpg)
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/5-camouflage-aircraft.jpg)
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/1.jpg)
....look familiar?
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/images.jpg)
None of these camouflage patterns are designed to conceal the aircraft while parked. Obviously, they are intended to hide while airborne. Shifty, good writeup. But, I do have to disagree with one thing. No icons does make it more realistic. :salute
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....look familiar?
Those SA "Puma" helicopters are from the Portuguese Air Force!!!! My air force!!!! :O Where did you get that picture?
:aok
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Sparow, I Googled "aircraft camouflage and they came up on the search results page under the pictures tab, on this link:
http://images.google.com/images?q=aircraft%20camouflage&biw=1902&bih=941
Those "Puma" helicopters blend in pretty well don't they? Nice tight formation flying also. A perfect example of hiding out while flying, the primary reason for camouflaging. :salute
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So why do you associate with elitists?
whats an elitist? i thought this was a game?
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whats an elitist? i thought this was a game?
its a word people use when they get beat up by, or don't like a particular group of guys in the game. they make it seem like these individuals or group of people act like they are better then everyone else, in their mind. the truth of the matter is its just a game and some people are better at it then others. but if you say you're better at it, then you're an elitist. or if you say something on 200 to someone that they don't like you're an elitist, in some peoples eyes. just depends on who you piss of that day.
and yes, contrary to popular believe, it is just a game. problem is people are good about making comments while hiding behind a keyboard.
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its a word people use when they get beat up by, or don't like a particular group of guys in the game. they make it seem like these individuals or group of people act like they are better then everyone else, in their mind. the truth of the matter is its just a game and some people are better at it then others. but if you say you're better at it, then you're an elitist. or if you say something on 200 to someone that they don't like you're an elitist, in some peoples eyes. just depends on who you piss of that day.
and yes, contrary to popular believe, it is just a game. problem is people are good about making comments while hiding behind a keyboard.
What jaeger just said is.. He is tEh l33T
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I would have to concur. I believe jaeger is one of the founding fathers of the 1337ists in the AvA
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why thank you, thats the nicest thing you've ever said to me. now where are the sheep? :D
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why thank you, thats the nicest thing you've ever said to me. now where are the sheep? :D
Sheep are for RAF pilots and male interior decorators. Be a man and go for the goat.
(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTb_znnI5M9mUAtwmjzbkF/SIG=1323n2l3o/EXP=1284501095/**http%3a//www.digitaldesktopwallpaper.com/wallpapers/dave-wilky/goat-1024x768.jpg)
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:rofl
:aok
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Looks like you have this one trained already shifty, do you pimp her :confused:out?
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Looks like you have this one trained already shifty, do you pimp her :confused:out?
She's just a free spirit.
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Goats make you lazy and don't develop your 6 pack. Sheep don't have handlebars ( I mean horns). :uhoh So i've heard.
Doomed,
Please try not to feel as though you are alone on an island sending SOS messages in a bottle and finding them returned to shore with a reply, "SOS does not reside at this address return to sender." We all know that your intentions are for a healthier AvA population.
Instead of taking your reference to elite behavior to heart, I hope that we all could just pause, take a deep breath and maybe a look in the mirror. Most will see there is room for improvement.
The purest form of "humble" Aces High pilots have to be the Aces High Trainers. Anything deviating from a pure trainer in a pure training environment, will assume the weight of ego and pride fueled by the spirit of competition. Possibly the reason that perk points, and other MA gauges are disabled in the AvA.
Doomed, sir you have given me some wickedly fun fights. Win or loose, we both enjoyed them, but what did we learn from them? If they were purely training exercises, we would have communicated, to each other, flaws in our tactics and ways that we were able to best use the no icons toolbox to our advantage.
Having played this game for about a decade, I have to say there still are tips to be learned on a daily basis, meaning that if we put our collective knowledge together, as a community, we will find that ah hah! moment, that will tip the scales in favor of fun and away from frustration. When last I checked, the largest weight on the frustration side was low AvA numbers. This has always been the catch 22.
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cant keep a cable connection for over 30 minutes lately so been in ava more and more. Our squad has made a comitment to fly here more but i will tell you why most stay away. There needs to be a limited icon range. Maybe 600 or so but sorry but thats a fact.
Most guys might give up there perk ride for a fun arena but its no fun fighting a guy that dives to the deck and you cant see him cuz your eyes aint 20/20. a very short icon range will increase the fun and take the fight off the deck.
This is just my opinion but ive head many many others say the same. A short icon range will help the ava arena.
the key to seeing them when they're on the deck, is to be on the deck yourself.
it's very easy to see them when you're co-alt, or below em. once you get in close, stay in close. it's a different style of fighting in there.
i flew a fight against jc67 sat. night. i should've handed his butt to him. i had alt, speed, and a better plane. :D my mistake? i fell into my old ma habit, of keeping my alt, and every time i went up, i lost sight of him. this let him set me up, and eventually, he took apart my plane.
my eyes aren't 20/20 either btw......but if you allow yourself time to get used to it, i think you'll have a blast. in the few weeks since i've started going into the ava, i've had more fun than i think i've had in the last couple of years in the main arenas. :aok
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True. Doomed, the no-icon thing does take a few hours of flying to get used to (I figure four as a general target). If someone is willing to invest that amount of time, it really does make a huge difference. As Humble has said elsewhere, suddenly the WWII accounts you've read make a lot more sense.
- oldman
bolded.....aaaaaiiiiiinnnnnt THAT the truth!!
an example.
i jumped rammey. he never saw me comin, but i fired too far back, 'cause i thought he did. he was dead in my sights. as soon as i saw hit sprites, i saw his tail skid right, then left, then that skidding roll to get out of the guns........and to be honest, it looked exactly like you see in footage on the old discovery wings shows........
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<EDIT>For the last 2 years we had icons on, and no one came in. people even asked why HTC didnt just shut down the AVA or use it for something else. So now we get a bit creative and we turn off icons and get a new map in there and all of a sudden we get a large influx of people that really enjoy playing with the no enemy icons and like it.
now we have 2 or 3 players that are requesting that we put icons back or make them limited range? where were you guys 2 years ago?
with the no icons, i get picked, i get nailed from afar, i even get ho'ed. i learn to fly and fight while looking over my shoulder or hoping the guys around me will help keep an eye on my back! i am very vocal about check 6's and i hope that other people will respond in kind. one must learn to adjust to this particular part of the game. maybe you should read the book "who moved my cheese"! its the same thing. one must be fluid and learn to adjust, rather then always force things back to status quo.
instead of complaining about it, why not grab someone you don't know, and ask them to work with you, to cover your 6 as a wing-man. this way you have someone to help you hopefully, and you might make a new friend in the process. this would make it easier for you, and maybe you would have a new potential squaddie in the making.
grumpy, i have a large file full of gunsites squirreled away somewhere. my computer crashed last night, but i think i have them online. if i do, i can send you the file.
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you mentioned help from guys around you.
that night i flew with killert, silent6, and a couple of others.....it was truly amazing. if one of us went in, one of the others would call out that they were comin with us. it was that night i talked abnout 2 hours straight of fighting.
no one planned the teamwork that existed, but it happened. it was a VERY large part of what made that night fun. it made it feel more real. i think the only way it could've felt more real, would've been for us to have people in the room punching us every time we took hits.
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Sweet, then i could blame you for my poor gunnery... :x
I think its funny, if everyone that complained about it not having enough people in it came in they would probably need to put a cap on it........ And for the ones the complain about the limited planeset, go out on a limb and learn something new. Just cause its not the ubber plane doesnt mean it wont be fun to fly.
Forgot my :salute to Doomed... Hope you stay around, lots of fun fights.
that;s what put me in a pee40.
i came in one week when the allied set was spit5, hurri2c, pee40....i forget the others. there was no pee38 though. i upped a hurri2c.......popped a couple of 110's, then thought " what the hell am i doing??" landed it, upped a spit5, and thought the same thing...only this time i had to shower to get the spitfire off of me.......i could and had flown these two rides before in the ma.....a lot too. why the hell was i doing the same old poop here?
i took up the rusty ole pee40, and found that i actually kind of like it. no cannons, no massive speed......just those scary looking sharks teeth.....and loads of fun.
the point??
try something new and/or different.
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omg i give up on explaining to you people what im trying to get at so nvm. Have fun and good luck chile and friends. :salute
I'm not the best....but if you need help, look for me in there, and i'll do whatever i can.
ingame is 1ltcap
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Well, I'm mid-school AvA. Played alot during the notorius JG54 time, bought a house and took a year off, now back. I used to only play AvA. I still play occasionally but the no icon setting is too much like work and less like a fun game for me. I like the ACM and the no-icon setting ends up with a bunch of kills where you don't even see the guy. It is very fun occasionally but I find myself choosing LW which I almost never used to do. Icons to me in AvA make it more about the knife fight and less sneaking around and trying to stay hidden. After a day of work, I often don't want to put as much attention into the game which is required for no icons.
Just my 2-cents. I still enjoy the areana either way and appreciate all of the work that goes into it and will continue to play it.
BTW, the arena seemed to do best when it had active squads making it their home. They always provided good initial numbers that would draw others in. The forums were also quite fun to read with all of the slamming! :cheers:
Chog
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Ahh you were Venom back then, I thought the BBS handle looked familiar. <S> Good to see ya back. :cheers:
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Ahh you were Venom back then, I thought the BBS handle looked familiar. <S> Good to see ya back. :cheers:
Yep, Venom in the old days. Trying to keep it light and fun so got a fresh start with a new handle. Good to see some of the old names in here.
Chog
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Hi Venom, I remember you from those days. Welcome back!
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