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General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: JimmyC on September 15, 2010, 05:11:06 AM

Title: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: JimmyC on September 15, 2010, 05:11:06 AM
Do you use it?
What are the pros and cons please
Thinking of getting it
Want some intel
Cheers
<S> Jimmy
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2010, 05:16:40 AM
Do you use it?
Yes

What are the pros and cons please

pros: Immersion; frees up buttons on stick; slight advantage in planes with thick cockpit frames

cons: Price tag; very "personal" controller that needs a lot of adjusting in the beginning to find the golden setup; takes time to get used to.

Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Scotch on September 15, 2010, 05:18:17 AM
Some justify the money by the increased immersion factor. I get the same immersion in AH by spending the money on whisky.  ;)
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: zack1234 on September 15, 2010, 06:00:06 AM
Got track ir 5 been using it for a year immersion is great, hat switch is quicker  :old:
Takes couple of weeks to get used to, try and borrow it for couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Ron on September 15, 2010, 06:22:10 AM
I used one for a short while.

I found it good for situational awareness, but had a problem with the forward view altering my gun site aim when moved my head, and thus my view.

I had to keep switching to non-IR to get an accurate gun site just prior to firing, and I found that to be a nuisance.

There may be an adjustment to overcome this i don't know about.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: bbosen on September 15, 2010, 06:52:02 AM
I used one for a short while.

I found it good for situational awareness, but had a problem with the forward view altering my gun site aim when moved my head, and thus my view.

I had to keep switching to non-IR to get an accurate gun site just prior to firing, and I found that to be a nuisance.

There may be an adjustment to overcome this i don't know about.

Me too. My experience EXACTLY.

Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Lusche on September 15, 2010, 07:14:22 AM
with the forward view altering my gun site aim when moved my head, and thus my view.

What do you mean by "altering gun sight aim"?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: groundfeeder on September 15, 2010, 07:15:28 AM
Me too. My experience EXACTLY.



Ditto.......same thing with forward gunsight view, rear views are a bit challenging to get right also.

The best thing is the ability to track a con while you are engaged. Carefull though, if you are low it is easy to get yourself disoriented while you are tracking the enemy.

The vertigo can get to you till you get used to it. When you do though it's great
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: H4RRY on September 15, 2010, 07:15:37 AM
Use the zoom function to keep your head centred or head back/forward one of those.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Chapel on September 15, 2010, 08:24:28 AM
I've used a track IR for about 3 years now, and absolutely would hate flying without it. It's true, the Immersion factor is extraordinary and makes the game a lot more realistic and exciting.
You'll want to spend a good 2-3 hours with the configuration setup to get a setup that suits how you play and move your head. It's a very personalized device. A couple tips though....

Setup a custom setting and start it out medium aggressive in the movement, and slowly creep it up so that turning your head just a little, gets you a lot. But not so much that you can't accurately follow a contact. A good way to test this out is to set it up, and go into the training arena and just follow the other players in the area to make sure you can track them. Look for "stutters", if your tracking a contact and the screen freezes just momentarily, then it's possible that the LED's are being blocked by a headset cable, possibly the mic boom, or your little receiver mounted on your monitor needs adjusting.

Secondly, leave your HAT switch views engaged. As mentioned the HAT switch views are MUCH quicker, and I use them primarily for the forward view, and for the rear view. If I'm following a contact, and about to fire, I'll press forward on the HAT switch to override the TrackIR and it keeps my reticle centered on the target while I fire. That way it can't drift if my head isn't steady. I used this a lot in the beginning, but rarely use it now because my head is much more steady, I'm used to the TrackIR, and know where my center position is at. The other time I use the HAT for views is the rear view. I pull back on the HAT switch, i'll be looking at my seat, and I can pan my head left/right to look behind the seat at contacts coming up behind me. It's super quick and easy to do. I also have a button on my joystick that "Centers" the forward view. That way if I shift, or get out of whack I just quickly center my view and I'm back in business. It's also good for shooting, I'll center the view right before I fire as I'm coming up on a contact.

Third, It's awesome that you can have 6 Degrees of Freedom to look around your cockpit and out into the world. However, I've found that having the head "tilt" engaged made me quite disoriented. So I disabled it and never looked back. There's not any really great reason to need it, and it just made things more awkward in the beginning. Being able to shift up/down, left/right, in/out is plenty of movement to see everything you need, so the tilt isn't necessary.

Again, it's great fun once you've set it up, and configured it for your personal style and movement. Get in the training arena and just fly around. Have some fun with it looking out the windows and tracking bad guys. It took 3-4 weeks to completely get used to, so put in the time and expect to be worse than you were. It's just like adjusting to a new joystick, or rudder pedals. But it's worth the time in my opinion.

Hope this helps and if you have questions, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: thndregg on September 15, 2010, 08:47:50 AM
I tried it. I liked the concept, but I found it fatiguing to use. My brother loves it.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Dichotomy on September 15, 2010, 08:52:42 AM
Escargot and Chapel summed it up for me.  Recentering I just hit f12.  It's reflex now.  Funny thing is I recently started playing Brothers In Arms on the Xbox and it took me a while to get used to not having the ability to just look around.  Got me capped about a dozen times
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: save on September 15, 2010, 08:53:10 AM
I bought my trackIR about 3 months ago.

First impression was , " im never going to get used to this"
second : "gunsight is not where it should be when I turn my head forward again"

After doing quite a few attempts figuring out how to tweak the off center gunsight in the software, I finally got it right.

Also if you have a marginal computer setup you might experience a frame rate reduction.

Now a happy TrackIR camper


Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: branch37 on September 15, 2010, 09:05:03 AM
the hardest part is getting it tweaked to where it works good for you, the second hardest part is getting used to it.  When i first got it I could only play for about 10-15 minutes without getting dizzy.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: zack1234 on September 15, 2010, 09:07:10 AM
I had to stop drinking until I got used to it, now I can do both  :old:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: JimmyC on September 15, 2010, 09:15:06 AM
Thanks fellers
Some great write ups
Sounds like fun after alot of practice and tweaking
Some good food for thought
Ty
<S> Jimmy
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Vinkman on September 15, 2010, 09:37:34 AM
I have one and love it. Most of the pros and cons have been discussed already so I'll keep my comments to additions and differences...

Looking around the cockpit framing is a huge plus for me. I used to have to move the plane to keep an eye on a bandit when approaching for the merge, and merging. Clearly not an ideal situation and IR tracker lets you do this simply, intuitively, and instantaneous. It can alternatively be done with hat switched set up for head position movement, but they have very slow move rates in game.

I've never had this gunsight problem in planes. I think the key is how you set the gains up around center position. I think my shooting has improved tremendously with IR. One advantage is looking forward and to the side on high deflection shots and watching the tracers relative to a bandit 'below the nose'. In some planes that's a big improvement.  But I find the best thing is the way you just follow the bandit similar to how you would in real life. The smooth continuous tracking helps me develop a better sense of speed and distance relative to my plane that I couldn't get with snap views. That helps me a lot in scissor maneuvers and close quarter crossing shots.

I have found the gunsight issues in Tanks and Whirbles when zoomed way in. Setting up a single toggle to switch back to fixed views corrects that problem as stated previously in the thread.

I highly reccommend it.  :salute

Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Wiley on September 15, 2010, 10:46:05 AM
I'm another happy user, love the thing for all the reasons stated previously.  My only addition is this:

I've heard quite a few people comment on the inability to center themselves for gunnery.  There's the ability to set deadband in the profile just by putting the curve right down to the bottom for a little bit on each side.  This leaves you a spot in the middle where it goes back to neutral.  Mine is pretty small because I've gotten used to it, but that makes it so you don't need to keep turning trackIR on and off and on and off.

I also want to agree that it is easily the most personal setting you can have.  Spending the time tweaking your profile can make the difference between 'Unusable POS' and 'How did I ever play without this thing?' IMO.

However, be prepared to possibly be among those who just can't get used to it.  I've known guys who got motion sick from using it, and some who just plain couldn't get used to it.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Husky01 on September 15, 2010, 12:13:58 PM
I think Dano still has one up for sale in the classified for cheap if anyone's interested in one.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: 96Delta on September 15, 2010, 03:34:09 PM
I've had TrackIR version 5 for around a year and a half
now....but I never tok it out of the box and installed it.

Part of my concern is that I have a marginal system
and I don't want to add to the processor load and
experience stutters and lag spikes.

Has anyone see their performance degrade materially
while running TrackIR?

(http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/images/forum/signatures/LCA-banner-style.515x90.jpg) (http://david.tenifer.com/aceshigh/LCA.MoM.php)
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: papjohns on September 15, 2010, 03:44:26 PM
Love my track IR. The problem you state, I resolved by disabling 4 out of the 6 axis (gunnery). SA went way up, and it freed a gazillion buttons on my stick. 6-view snaps into place (without having to cranck your head etc). Youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJDvIDV2WF8 Don't mind the youtube-added tard music ( I am too lazy to change it).

Hope that helps; I can send you my profiles if you are interested.  :aok
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: oakranger on September 15, 2010, 03:47:56 PM
Do you use it?  GOD YES!
What are the pros and cons please  Pros: better visual vs hat button.  Cons: background light that it may picked up that will interfer the tracker
Thinking of getting it
Want some intel
Cheers
<S> Jimmy
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: dhyran on September 15, 2010, 03:57:31 PM
hey jimmyc

watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjeCnIbWWlU

from 5:30 you see why trackir can decide a match, i pulled into near black (the controlled max) when krupinski and i tried to rope each other
for me, trackir is a must have, i my will have a malfunction i would order a new one on the same day, i can't fly without trackir anymore

 :salute
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: cactuskooler on September 15, 2010, 04:17:57 PM
It gave me a stiff neck for the first week I had it. Now I would rather quit than fly without it.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: 68ZooM on September 15, 2010, 04:19:43 PM
hey jimmyc

watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjeCnIbWWlU

from 5:30 you see why trackir can decide a match, i pulled into near black (the controlled max) when krupinski and i tried to rope each other
for me, trackir is a must have, i my will have a malfunction i would order a new one on the same day, i can't fly without trackir anymore

 :salute

watched that video, just bought the Track IR 5 Pro and TrackClip Pro Optical Track System today 163.00 free shipping now the waiting begins, ill end up asking for info setting in up ingame..... i cant wait!!!!    :x  :x  :x
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: papjohns on September 15, 2010, 04:35:54 PM
hey jimmyc

watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjeCnIbWWlU

from 5:30 you see why trackir can decide a match, i pulled into near black (the controlled max) when krupinski and i tried to rope each other
for me, trackir is a must have, i my will have a malfunction i would order a new one on the same day, i can't fly without trackir anymore

 :salute

Great Video.  :aok
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Tigger29 on September 15, 2010, 04:39:01 PM
Do you use it?

Oh yes... I don't know how I did without it before

What are the pros and cons please

PROS: Immersion, realism, cool looking antenna thing coming out of my head
CONS: Price (not too bad for what you get, really), takes time to set up, no good with bombers or tanks

Thinking of getting it
Want some intel

If you are financially able then go for it.  V4 is what I have and I love it.  I have no experience with V5 so I can't tell how much better it is, but if money is tight, you can save a good chunk and go for V4.  A few tips:
  • Turn off the rotational axis... this is where you rotate your head (like upside-down) and your surroundings rotate with it.  This makes it very annoying.
  • Set a little bit of deadband for your forward vision.  This will negate the need to turn off head tracking while shooting.
  • Give yourself plenty of time to get used to it.  It can take several weeks for some people.  Personally I had it down after a few days, but I also rarely suffer from any kind of motion sickness, dizziness, etc.
  • Program a button on your joystick for Track I/R CENTER, and program a button for turning Track I/R ON/OFF.  Don't bother with the 'precision' setting.. you won't need it[/color]

    Cheers
    <S> Jimmy
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: james on September 15, 2010, 05:20:39 PM
I use it, I also took some time to tweak it though. Put a dead band in the center of the view except the movement from front to back of the seat.  This will center you up when you take a shot. It will also keep you from having to strain your neck to hold your head still all through the game.  You can also speed the view up or down so that it's quicker or slower in any direction you want. This makes things pretty quick when looking over your shoulder and deciding which way to turn if you're in a fight. if you thumb your views you have to think thumbs and what you're looking at. Depends on your eye hand coordination as well.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: potsNpans on September 15, 2010, 05:52:03 PM
Have you looked into FreeTrack? You build the track gear, so a small amount of assembling skills is necessary. Cost is low, but results are high. 
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Doberman on September 15, 2010, 11:52:57 PM
Just chiming in to add to the "I wouldn't fly without it" pile.  :)

It's right up there with my first full Thrustmaster setup as "Best simming add-ons I've ever bought." 

I love it in the racing sims I play as well.

Follow the many helpful tips posted previously here and you're almost guaranteed to find it a game-changing experience. 

Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Vinkman on September 16, 2010, 09:05:15 AM
hey jimmyc

watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjeCnIbWWlU

from 5:30 you see why trackir can decide a match, i pulled into near black (the controlled max) when krupinski and i tried to rope each other
for me, trackir is a must have, i my will have a malfunction i would order a new one on the same day, i can't fly without trackir anymore

 :salute

Dhyran,
How did you get the film recorder to capture the Track IR inputs?   Mine currently won't, and when I asked on the boards I was told it can't.

Great film  :salute
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Lusche on September 16, 2010, 10:09:42 AM
Dhyran,
How did you get the film recorder to capture the Track IR inputs?  

He captures live in game, not from the film viewer
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: guncrasher on September 16, 2010, 02:02:41 PM
i got somebody's profile, cant remember who, and it doesnt alter aim, it is pretty stable while looking forward.  I also reduced speed to 1 and smooth to 40.  it moves really nice with no blurry vision.

semp
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: JimmyC on September 16, 2010, 02:32:28 PM
A squaddie is gonna send me one that has been inn the box for awhile
He can't get on with it so is moving it on
He got given it by a squaddie before
Gotta love being in a great squad <<S>> 71
<<S>> Snaphook and Obie
Thanks all for your valuable input
Looking forward to getting it and rereading this thread to tweak it up
Btw great film Dhyran ty for posting
Made me want tracker even more
<S> fellers and ty for your comments
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: 68ZooM on September 16, 2010, 06:36:37 PM
Mine will be here in 3 business days but sense they won't deliver on sunday, i guess Monday it is  :joystick:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: dhyran on September 17, 2010, 03:35:46 AM
Dhyran,
How did you get the film recorder to capture the Track IR inputs?   Mine currently won't, and when I asked on the boards I was told it can't.

Great film  :salute

I recorded live during the SDL matches in half screen resolution, you see what i saw during the fight.
I use magix as cutting software, the voices are directly recorded via TS3 stream

Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Tinribs on September 17, 2010, 05:05:13 PM
I have a track IR 4 and found the gunnery issues impossible to overcome without constantly hitting a button assigned to default view,when naturalpoint released the 5 version software I downloaded it and found aces plays well on  the default settings a massive improvement.
so if anyone has a track IR 4 running 4 software update it to track IR 5 software I think you can save and transfer your profiles if you want. :cheers:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: zack1234 on September 18, 2010, 03:30:52 AM
track clip pro is an improvement as well :old:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: guncrasher on September 18, 2010, 04:31:11 AM
the clip is a must.  if your head set is too "big" like my g15 use electrical tape to secure it.


semp
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: zack1234 on September 18, 2010, 05:21:51 AM
you have a big head :banana: :banana:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: 68ZooM on September 20, 2010, 04:53:22 PM
i got mine today, just downloaded the drivers and made some adjustments to it and now im practicing offline, i seem to like it but i need more research  hehe
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: Bino on September 20, 2010, 07:21:22 PM
I use the older TrackIR 3 Pro with their version 4 software.  The Vector add-on provides the ability to move along each axis, and not merely rotate around them.  Because the 3 is old, I cannot use the version 5 software.

The TrackIR is indispensible to me.  Took me all of fifteen minutes to become a TrackIR convert.  The ability to "lean" around the cockpit frames make all the difference in the world.  I have a "center view" toggle programmed into one of the buttons on my HOTAS rig, and often use it just before firing.  I did have to tweak the profile a little bit, in order to scale my "real head" movement to the "in-game head", but that did not take too long.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: JimmyC on September 21, 2010, 02:36:38 AM
dreat stuff zoom
hope it works for you
mine should come soon yay  :x
 :aok
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: 68ZooM on September 21, 2010, 11:28:47 AM
well it took about 15 Min's to get adjusted to it, adjusting the head movement speed is critical... to fast and you feel dizzy after awhile  :rolleyes: after adjusting it i went online and my first time up i took a G6 and landed two kills, i really do like how you can track your opponents much easier now along with a better SA, I'm enjoying it  :joystick:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: kvuo75 on October 14, 2010, 11:12:57 PM
eh.. i only bumped a month old thread right?

dhyran, your films actually convinced me to buy trackir the other day

it showed up today.  with the default clip, fastened to the top of my headset, I found I cannot tilt too high, before my thick lustrous hair which I have not had cut in too long (on a very large head, also, zack) apparently blocks the view of the reflectors  :D

I have the camera poised upon a large box about a foot above my monitor at this point, to get it to see properly, and even then, I have to tweak some weird scaling so I can see 90deg up without losing track.

question..  the track clip pro should solve this? yes? should I be able to mount it on my monitor? (24" 1080p lcd)


btw.. I will agree already, that it will take weeks or more to learn it.. It's a whole new game.

I yelled on squad vox earlier so proud of my first kill today using it  :rofl


Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: maddafinga on October 14, 2010, 11:33:04 PM
Yeah man, the clip will solve that.  My clip sits on the left of my headset and sits pretty flat against my head.  No problems with it unless I lean way way over out of the range of the sensor, or if I put my arm up, to stretch for example, and block the clip for a second.  You'll like the clip a lot better.
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: JimmyC on October 15, 2010, 05:47:34 AM
i got mine the other day and love it
seeems to make sense straight away
I got mine clipped on the front of a baseball cap
works a treat
try that out
if your reading this and thinking of getting it
GET IT ITS GREAT
takes a bit to get used too, but opens up the game immensely
feels more real
<S>
Jimmy
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: zack1234 on October 15, 2010, 08:24:22 AM
Clip pro is on a pivot it can be adjusted in seconds.
Have a key set up on joystick for pause and center it helps if you have drink while flying :old:

And Kvuo we all miss you :banana:
Klingan always talks about the good times we all had :banana:
And Yarbles also has fond memories  :banana:
Title: Re: Views on getting tracker IR
Post by: guncrasher on October 17, 2010, 01:12:43 AM
eh.. i only bumped a month old thread right?

dhyran, your films actually convinced me to buy trackir the other day

it showed up today.  with the default clip, fastened to the top of my headset, I found I cannot tilt too high, before my thick lustrous hair which I have not had cut in too long (on a very large head, also, zack) apparently blocks the view of the reflectors  :D

I have the camera poised upon a large box about a foot above my monitor at this point, to get it to see properly, and even then, I have to tweak some weird scaling so I can see 90deg up without losing track.

question..  the track clip pro should solve this? yes? should I be able to mount it on my monitor? (24" 1080p lcd)


btw.. I will agree already, that it will take weeks or more to learn it.. It's a whole new game.

I yelled on squad vox earlier so proud of my first kill today using it  :rofl




the clip replaces the hat it mounts on your headset, so you must wear a head set to use it. which might mess up your hair  :D.


semp