Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mano on September 15, 2010, 01:36:06 PM
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How many of you veteran aviators are Baby Seal Killers?
We need to help out the newbies allot more. It won't be long before they
are picking on the vets. That is what we want.
:salute
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All 5 WWI folks are getting pretty decent in their kites.
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Some veterans (me) are so bad with these fm's they qualify as "baby seals"! Maybe we should start a squad? We used to have the Geezer wing...could easily move over to the "Baby Seals" wing.
It quickly empties an arena when someone wipes out two or three guys three times each on half a tank of gas and lands 12 kills. I don't know...with the way the arena is set up - very limited diversity possible in either what you are up to or what you are flying - it kind of begs this situation. Some people live in there while others drop in for an hour every so often. The difference in ability is enormous and the learning curve probably seems impossible to new guys after they try it once or twice. You have to live through a lot of dying to reach even "average" ability. That is a pretty painful process, and not fun for most people.
When there are 100 people flying and more diverse things you can do in an arena...not so much a problem, and you might even have wing mates to keep the clubs off the baby seals. But, as it is...you're spot on Mr. Mano.
Didn't have an effective solution to this in other sims...don't for this one, at least until there is more development and diversity.
All of us want to feel like we are flying well and then we want to leave the arena feeling like it was fun. If you get quickly killed on each sortie and leave feeling this is hopeless...neither thing is happening. Only folks leaving satisfied are the ones holding the clubs.
One
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Lets just hope we get some new rides soon. It is perhaps better if the single WW1 arena morphed into its own version of a WW1 "Late War" arena. Maybe the change in dynamics would make it more appealing to more people.
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(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k190/marsdog/harp-seal-baby.jpg) :cheers: :cheers:
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So you want easy mode ....if u know basic flight characteristics you can become decent after learning FM of each plane.
HTC screwed the pooch in my opinion the first month
They should of put 5k bases next to the current sea level bases ...this would of made longer lasting fights , I know 50% fights ended in ground strikes the first month ....people would have had a better chance of recovery. & it would not have been a conga line of gang bang, it was a hell hole
The 5 k bases would of spread out the dog pile, but still be able to just land at sea level base on return
Double the current base count, with a 5k base 1/4 mile from another friendly base
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Lets just hope we get some new rides soon. It is perhaps better if the single WW1 arena morphed into its own version of a WW1 "Late War" arena. Maybe the change in dynamics would make it more appealing to more people.
I don't know what you mean by new rides? How would the rides be any different? :salute
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Anything that can outclimb, outdive, speed away from, and generally nullify the DR1 :x
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I don't know what you mean by new rides? How would the rides be any different?
If a Spad XIII or SE5a was added to the lineup you would see some Boom and Zoom to go along with the
Fokker Dr1 turn fights. You would also see more pilots using the DVII and Camel
:salute
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If a Spad XIII or SE5a was added to the lineup you would see some Boom and Zoom to go along with the
Fokker Dr1 turn fights. You would also see more pilots using the DVII and Camel
:salute
I doubt it. The numbers basically do not support it.
The environent shapes the fight, the kind of fight largely dictate the choice of planes.
When there are so few players (I always see 0-8 on my loginscreen), the battles more or less naturally end up in dueling style "fights".
When there were still (relatively) huge battles in the WWI arena, the most used & successful plane was the boomin' and zoomin' D.VII. Only when the player numbers went down, the Dr started to rule, because the nature of the fights changed.
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How many of you veteran aviators are Baby Seal Killers?
We need to help out the newbies allot more. It won't be long before they
are picking on the vets. That is what we want.
:salute
Easy - start an aggressive 'Adopt a Noob' program. I know I've committed the butchery of which you speak, although usually only after an attempt to get them to chat (more often than not ignored). If they do respond in kind I'll try to talk them through the basics while generally acting as a target drone, with the odd burst of fire to keep them focussed. Once you've established a bit of trust it's a good idea to get on the same country, then when (if) any nme come up you can take them under your wing in the time honoured tradition and get some combat going. In the meantime if you're the only two on, 1v1 practice without the threat of collision seems a good idea if you don't mind spending time in there without adding to your score.
Reap as you sow, softly softly catchee monkey etc
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I typically try to help; usually starts out with a few tips to see if they even listen to me. If they're willing to listen I'll dumb down my flying and try to help, otherwise I'll just dumb it down some and see if they're willing to try and learn. If they keep up any annoying moves (spraying at every merge, etc) or don't listen when I tell them something won't work (like 200mph dives) I tend to just leave them be.
Then again I tend to get people that try to follow/learn from me when I don't even recognize them! :)
If it's a bunch of people on who are kind of new I'll tend to avoid teaching and just fight the horde as best I can (prefer a good long 1v1 thought).
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Only when the player numbers went down, the Dr started to rule, because the nature of the fights changed.
I don't think this is the biggest reason why Dr.I's popularity superceeded D.VII's. Although I'm sure the decline of player numbers had some efect aswell. I thnik it had more to do with people learning the quirks of the rotary engined Dr.I the whole planeset in general.
Just according to my personal limited perception, the Dr.I numbers started to pickup before the arena numbers declined below ten flyers. A proper graph would of course give us a correct answer to this. ;)
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I don't think this is the biggest reason why Dr.I's popularity superceeded D.VII's. Although I'm sure the decline of player numbers had some efect aswell. I thnik it had more to do with people learning the quirks of the rotary engined Dr.I the whole planeset in general.
Just according to my personal limited perception, the Dr.I numbers started to pickup before the arena numbers declined below ten flyers. A proper graph would of course give us a correct answer to this. ;)
The numbers plummeted very quickly, we had only one tour with a "full" WWI arena, by the second one the fighting environment was already totally different (no more big furballs, dominantly 1v1) with total kills having dropped down to less than 25%, by the third tour we are facing a arena with 0-8 players online.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6982/wwiarenakills.jpg)
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Thanks for the graph Lusche! :aok
Personally, I think this reinforces my belief that the Dr.I numbers started to superceed D.VII's before the total decline of the numbers. I very well remember some pretty big and nice furballs even during the second tour...at least during the US prime time. Anyway, nothing worth arguing over either way. :) I really hope the numbers in the WWI arena would pickup one way or another. It really seems like waste of resources in its current state. :(
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I really hope the numbers in the WWI arena would pickup one way or another.
Me too... but I don't see any way how that could happen.
And yes, I know I'm a part of the problem for not going there in the first place :P
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well with only 4 rides to choose from I lost a lot of my initial interest. Haven't been in there in a few weeks but every time I log on I have that option, which I am thankful for. I plan on spending some time in there this weekend. Just wish they had a few more planes to choose from.
PS I think it was a mistake to add the DR1 at the release of WW1. Had we a SE5a and Albatross, Nieuport and Spad along with the Camel and DR7 I can pretty much guarantee you we would have had a better and more sustainable community build up then we have so far experienced.
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Mano's original point was to nurture the new pilots...keep them in the arena. And, the thread evolved to the larger issue; even if they do end up enjoying these old kites, what is necessary to sustain the arena? Pretty much a consensus that in some form more diversity is necessary if the arena is going to grow and stick around...more fm's, a strat game, etc. Something.
Some of us came to AH simply because of this possibility...the WWI sims elsewhere are static...kinda/very stale. Still going to be optimistic about this one...no point in being negative until or unless someone turns out the lights.
Nurturing new guys will always be part of what makes it work.
Did notice some good comments about the DR1. It is not an easy fm in this arena...hard to deal with the torque that is modeled let alone the torque some folks feel would make it more realistic, glad its not there. It grabs air and floats when with other fm's (different sims) it cuts through air more easily, and...switching ends near the earth - the classic DR move - brings you to earth where again with fm's in different sims you still have lift. This one is tough - at least for this pilot. But, not advocating to change it at all. Clearly some people have it figured out and at that point they are very hard to beat 1 on 1. When the big fur ball is going on...it moderates some of the 1 on 1 variance in ability...those are good times.
With Mano again...Spad 13 and SE5a would change this some as the 13 should be able to easily extend from a DR with alt and B'NZ flying...SE5a would do that too with even a little better ability to turn than the 13. If you were careful you could peck them to death...it might take awhile.
I noticed another thread suggesting one night a week when folks would meet in WWI. That would certainly help! Hope folks pick up on that.
Take care,
One
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How about this idea to encourage new players and breathe some extra life into the sim, as follows:
One (1) only Red Baron Triplane, available on a 'first come first served' basis, if you get shot down you lose it and the guy who shot you gets it (if he wants it, else it recycles to 'first come first served').
If you're not in the air with it after (say) five minutes you lose it, and if you log out or stay on the ground longer than five minutes you lose it.
+ maybe a record kept of current kills and most kills flying the Red Baron triplane.
So no effect on anything important but something to add colour (sorry, USA server - 'color') to the arena, a bit of good clean fun. If you were passing and noticed only 1 or 2 in the arena you might think 'hmmm I could maybe shoot down the current Red Baron' and if it was empty you might think 'hmmm, I can pop in and be the Red Baron'. All in all a very simple thing to make the place more interesting and appealing, take some of the pressure off the new guys (everyone's chasing the Red Baron lol) and encourage a few more over from the main arenas, if only for a laugh.
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Would be fun...could even do it only one or two days a week to mix things up. Having only the AH score as a goal...and only killing someone to get points...something like this would be an addition.
These kind of things never seem to happen unless the player base can affect the change as opposed to programmers. But, you never know.
BTW...the Red Baron. Just got a note from Amazon...the recent German movie about the Baron will be available in November. Guess it wasn't too popular with the current German audience...but some good flying sequences.
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I think that is a great ideal....be cool to add a "RED BARON DAY". Would put an extra goal to the game. Perhaps add some sort of tourny's as well, but that is getting way ahead of ourselves I'm sure.
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The last time I went to the WWI arena was maybe a month or so ago. I got ganged on 3 times in a row and left. Haven't been back since.
Same old same old.
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The last time I went to the WWI arena was maybe a month or so ago. I got ganged on 3 times in a row and left. Haven't been back since.
Same old same old.
How many times have you been ganged in the MA? Do you still go there? Get your feelings hurt much?? Ganging happens, sad but true. Man up and come on back. Fly smart and take a ganging or to.....get picked while in a ten minute turn fight....get a kill or two. There are peeps in the arena who will help ya and respect the 1v1. Just like the MA.
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Respect the 1v1? Thats another thing that is starting to turn me off from WW1 arena. This expectation that the entire half dozen players will just que up, forming a line, and wait their turn for the next gentlemanly joust. B O R I N G You people that expect a 1v1 dueling engagement should take your partner and go to the dueling arena.
Again: You want a safe fun protected 1v1 GO TO THE DUELING ARENA
I have always felt that a big part of this game is being able to deal with multiple cons simultaneously. That is a giant part of managing the air battle space. Situational Awareness.
There are on average 6-8 players in there and people, good sticks that trick around in DR1s almost exclusively, are whining about being picked.
But do not worry. Im spending less and less time in there as it is.
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People with any notion of fun ww1 fights will not gang 1 Guy.
of you are getting ganged then uWAIT for a friendly to up and fly near them so the 2 vs 2 starts
Yeager maybe your not a good ftr in ww1 arena and that's why you gang
I have never seen you there
I fly maybe few hours a week and its typically am Pacific time
If HTC would of put two friendly bases side by side one sea level one at 5k... it would of made the gang bang conga line vanish
And the learning curve would have been way easier.3/4 of the GTE's were auger because they fought at 30 feet
You can't force people to fight a certain way but you sure can encourage
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I think you have it backwards: If you are getting ganged and are unhappy about it then that is your problem. As a general rule I do not get ganged because of the way I "try" to enter and exit the fighting area. And for SURE if I DO screw up and DO get clobbered (by some thoughtful fellow trying to save his happless countryman) you will NOT see my text on open popping off with the whines about being picked.
Perhaps you several should just request that HTC rename it the WW1V1 Dueling Arena and have that little message pop up that says "Please do NOT interrupt 1v1 engagements".
I would be fine with that. You guys would have your dueling arena all to yourselves.
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Respect the 1v1? Thats another thing that is starting to turn me off from WW1 arena. This expectation that the entire half dozen players will just que up, forming a line, and wait their turn for the next gentlemanly joust. B O R I N G You people that expect a 1v1 dueling engagement should take your partner and go to the dueling arena.
:aok
Well said Yeager, the arena says 'WW1' and I think alot of players want the complete WW1 experience. That includes the opportunity to pull something out of the bag 1v3 (although that often ends badly, but it's great fun having a go). And the other good thing about that is the new guys can join up and help gang someone, whereas 1v1 they don't stand a chance.
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Lord save me...
I will kick the crap out of aplenty gang bangs....trying to bang me
You cannot compare ma to ww1. You are lucky to have 3 people in there
Ill be back later I need to go
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:huh
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Had to go eat dinner
You can't compare ma-1ww
Ma you can look for other bases, ww1 you can barely find a fight.
No issue with me, if I'm constantly being jumped by 3 , I will wait for a friendly to up or ask someone to switch
Screw it.....I'm out of this, I look forward to more fights in kites
Talking about magic special red baron and alot of players want that? Are you sniffing glue? WW1ARENA IS ALMOST EMPTY
It takes more skill to fight in the kites
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How many times have you been ganged in the MA? Do you still go there? Get your feelings hurt much?? Ganging happens, sad but true. Man up and come on back. Fly smart and take a ganging or to.....get picked while in a ten minute turn fight....get a kill or two. There are peeps in the arena who will help ya and respect the 1v1. Just like the MA.
I get ganged plenty in the MA but there I have a choice. If I prefer not to give that a go I can go somewhere else and find something different. In WWI there is only one option.
My feelings weren't hurt in the least. I didn't have fun. I left.
Man up? Who are you? Internet tough guy?
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WW1 Dogfighting requires skill. It is a pure and raw stick skills arena. That my friends, is intriguing.
perdweeb
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Talking about magic special red baron and alot of players want that? Are you sniffing glue? WW1ARENA IS ALMOST EMPTY
I just don't see how the current 1v1 'code' is going to help increase numbers; the Red Baron suggestion (if realised - yeah right) would be an attempt to stir up more interest. You said it yourself, the arena is almost empty, that's happened with the current tendency to duel 1v1 in place (and chastise anyone who jumps in). Which indicates a change is needed. 1v1 duels are fine and a valid part of the WW1 experience, but so are 3v1, 6v1 (Voss, wasn't it?) massive furballs and if we could swing it a host of other cool stuff. Had a blast in there earlier today with about six each side, it varied and nobody complained, there were many instances of 2, 3 and 4 on 1, and nobody complained. But I think most of the guys were mainly WW2 who drop in from time to time, as opposed to the regulars. Great fights though :salute
Also, I never made the claim that 'alot of players want that' in regards to the Red Baron idea. But I am building an RC model a/c next to my PC at the moment so there may be some inadvertent glue sniffing involved :rolleyes:
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I am building an RC model a/c next to my PC at the moment so there may be some inadvertent glue sniffing involved :rolleyes:
What are you building?
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WW1 Dogfighting requires skill. It is a pure and raw stick skills arena. That my friends, is intriguing.
perdweeb
Negative. Look at it like this: In strategic analysis there are four concentric circles. The first outer circle is the global kneepad telling you what is happening and where on the map. The next circle is what you see once in the air as far as your eyes can pick up dots, their relative distance and altitude. The next circle is who and what you allow within Icon range. The last smallest circle is the guns circle. ANYTHING within this circle can kill you. You have three higher levels of knowledge that you use to dictate the fight you are entering into. The fourth and final smallest circle is where you win or lose based on decisions you made in the three higher level Circe's. What you do with the stick is moot if you cannot enter the fight on good terms. Analyzing and acting on the data you get from the first three Circe's is what puts you in position to kill your opponent.
Then again there is the "dueling mentality" where the entire concept of strategic analysis has no value.
Fun is instead measured by how many minutes you and your opponent can fly around each other in Circe's, gaining and losing advantage until someone gets killed. There is a LOT more this game has to offer than just dueling. Getting people to fly around and wait for you and your opponent to finish your duel is boring for me and I imagine, most other people. Hence, one of the reasons 8 people in there is a large crowd.
There is a lot more in common bewteen WW1 and WW2 when it comes to air combat then some people seem to realize.
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wow yeager....boy have you said a mouthful....lol..I may be wrong but ww1 was the start on the basics of dogfighting and are still in effect 2day. So sure for that aspect ww1 and ww2 fighting could be said to be the same. But the fight itself is no where near the same. In ww1 you have got to actually be sharper than ww2. If you enjoy recieving a good gangbang then you should know what I mean. Although ww1 crates are much slower the action is alot faster than ww2. If you dont have ya SA going with good mojo you will die over and over. Oh..BTW..without great stik skills, how do you expect to stay alive for very long?
As far as the gangbang discussion goes.....BRING IT!! I do understand that if there is only a couple on then I would like to observe the 1vs1 rule. I dont mind taking on 2 or 3 at a time. I will win sometimes and lose others...oh well...it's fun. It's when a good stik comes on and gets hammered by 5 or more that is sensless to me.
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what the mouthfull basically says is that SA is just as important in WW1 as it is to this day. The only real difference is engagement distances and weapons deployed.
I may not be the sharpest tool in the A2A shed but I try to make up for it by entering the fights smartly.
Since the WW1 arena has basically evolved into a 1v1 dueling arena it loses one important aspect that I enjoy: Thinking my way into fluid dynamic air battle campaign. Two guys rolling around in DR1s for ten minutes until one is dead can only go so far in generating and keeping my interest. Another problem I encounter with the stale holding off for the two duelers is that once one is dead the other is usually either wounded, shot up or so discombobulated by the whole affair that they are simple pickings on the plate.....bah!
Also: As you alluded to in your post being a "great stick" will only get you so far.
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I find WWI very limiting compared to WWII, but then I'm not very good at it. The planes have so much drag that even if you start with an alt advantage the E is lost so fast that you can't even extend beyond gun range before taking serious damage. I've tried to use the F.2B in the b&z mode because it's faster than the ubiquitous Dr1, but I haven't had much success. The differential in speed is so low, less than 8 mph, that it takes forever to extend beyond gun range. If the Dr1 reverses onto your 6 at 200 yds after you close on him, then it takes 3.5 minutes to extend to 1000 yds during which you're taking hits. It's like trying to jog away from someone with a long range machine gun. No matter if you go down, up, or straight you can't get out of gun range without being damaged; once you enter a fight you are committed to a turning battle.
It sort of works if the targets are occupied (which violates the "duel" mentality) but it's very unsatisfying. I basically get kills on planes I've pinged very lightly which run into trees or are damaged beyond repair by someone else who dies first. Then there is the problem of ripping your wings in a dive. The range of useful speeds is very narrow and it seems like everything devolves to a turn on a dime battle that the Dr1 wins most of the time.
I guess I just haven't been able to figure out WWI.
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I find WWI very limiting compared to WWII
I remember years ago seeing a game of 'Kick' (actually I don't even know if that's what it was called) on the oil and gas rigs in outback Australia. A small crowd of roughnecks had gathered around the two combatants, and were betting sizeable sums on the outcome. The protagonists were stood facing each other with hands on each other's shoulders, and were slowly taking it in turns to kick each other's legs with their heavy rig boots, neither trying to avoid the blows as they swung in. Apparently the game would continue amid the grunting and shouting until one or the other threw in the towel.
I noticed that despite neither of them moving around much, and although it was winter (it gets bloody cold in the desert in winter) both men were sweating profusely as they stared menacingly into each others eyes, and I wondered why. Nor were they kicking all that hard, as far as I could tell. I commented to one of the other bystanders that there didn't seem to be much to the game. He gave me one of those looks, you know, like 'What?... ahhh... a noob'. So I elaborated, and said there weren't exactly alot of options.
He said that in addition to kicking shins they also had the option of kicking each other in the balls. I thought about it for a moment then asked if anyone had ever done that. He gave me that look again and said 'Not that I'm aware of'.
As with the simple roughneck game of 'Kick' the WW1 arena has hidden complexity.... you never know if the other guy is about to kick you in the balls. At least that's how it should be, but 1v1 Gentleman's Rules puts pressure on everyone to kick softly. Where's the fun in that?
What are you building?
Well I've deviated (steady) from my usual size park flyers and picked up a Guillows balsa kit of a Fairchild 24, a 25inch span old timer meant for rubber power; but I'm having none of that, and intend to shovel a little 1812 brushless motor and 3 channel radio into it. Some nice relaxing rudder flying for the calm summer days ahead :cool:
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Hi 715...
Thanks for joining us last night. Your post is pretty accurate for all of us...and it relates to real life. The life expectation for a WWI pilot in combat was only a couple of weeks. With some of the planes, notably the camel, more died learning to fly it than in combat. It was not easy. Hard to imagine going up over and over in a kite of wood and cloth with a very early engine design, and shooting live ammunition at one another. In RL there were also many deaths by collision, just as in the arena.
We have one simple advantage...resurrection!
Hope to see you again. It gets even crazier as the fur balls grow...and people are more distracted by other planes. You can sneak off and extend in those situations. Hard to do that with just 3 or 4 guys fighting.
Take care and have fun in there...everyone dies a lot!
One
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I still say more skill is required. I have seen good sticks in MA stall out and crash in WW1. Not that that mean they suck, just saying not only do you have to fly the plane, shoot the other planes, but you also have to keep yourself alive. You can't run, you can't bnZ, you can only get dirty in the soup.
perdweeb
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Hey guys I am with you I would love to see more people in the WWI arenas. Hopefully Ranger will have a better map with just one spawn point for each country. I would like to see Ace high but some recognizance balloons with machine guns on them that each country had to protect. Maybe some zeppelins as bomber that the pilots had to protect as the zeppelins attracted the airfields and perhaps tanks. I would defiantly like to see more variety of planes like the Spad XIII the Albatros and SE5 but we have to wait and see what they come up with. I like the 1v1 but the 1v2 or 3 is just as fun just not the 1v5 or 6. The tactics for the WWI planes are different from WWII you can't just dive straight in you have to think of the structure of the plane. The tactic of B&Z will work but in a more limited way you circle above and as they come up you do small slashing attacks. The hold thing is that you need to find the WWI equivalent of the WWII tactic. I prefer the Dr1 it is the most structurally sound plane it can handle more Gs than any of the other planes but I think it is harder to fly because it stall more than the others. The trick is to keep your speed up and don't pull on the stick so much as to slow you down. Ride it like a wave go with the flow think what it wants to do and do it. In a loop once you go over the top it wants to slide to the left so let it for a bit to get our speed up and then turn the direction you intended. The WWII planes have a more powerful engine and will not suffer in that respect as much.. Once I master the Dr1 I would like to learn the tricks to the DVII I think it is a superior plane to the DR1. We need new blood in the WWI arenas we all need to help the new planers to adjust to these planes.
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Great post SCTusk,perdweeb,onerka,MajQBall. Fully agree to all of em. Welcome 715...keep trying. If we could just get more stiks in there the flying gets alot more intense and faster.
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Once we get the Zeppelins and can bomb from altitude the fun will return. Also HT please add lots of Hydrogen to the Zepps..........Boom
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Once we get the Zeppelins and can bomb from altitude the fun will return. Also HT please add lots of Hydrogen to the Zepps..........Boom
Once we add zeppelins and bombs and base capturing we will have no arenas (except the lame DA) where there are no hordes, no base taking BS, and no pure dogfighting.
Add zeppelins, bombs, and other MA BS, WWI loses appeal to the people that enjoy it now. So, if you don't like WWI as it is now, maybe it is because you are a horde dwelling, bomb****ish, base taking twit that lacks the skill to compete in WWI as it is now. My suggestion to those people who want the MA BS added to WWI would be to stay far, far away from WWI Arena. Stay in your hordes fellas.
perdweeb
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Add zeppelins, bombs, and other MA BS, WWI loses appeal to the people that enjoy it now. So, if you don't like WWI as it is now, maybe it is because you are a horde dwelling, bomberish, base taking twit that lacks the skill to compete in WWI as it is now. My suggestion to those people who want the MA BS added to WWI would be to stay far, far away from WWI Arena. Stay in your hordes fellas.
perdweeb
If HTC wants to keep the dozen or so guys in there satisfied then they should leave it exactly as it is. If they want to try and work the thing and make it more enjoyable for more people then they are going to have to change it up at some point. New planes, new content.
We shall see.
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Well, this is not exactly what happened in another sim a lot of us populated about 10 or more years ago. There were base capture squads and furball groups and they pretty well remained separate. The strat guys generally left the furball guys their favorite several fields until they had captured everything else, and then turned to those last fields. I susepct some of the most exciting fights across time were those largest fights when the fur ball guys would try to stop the strat guys from closing and capturing the last fields. None of us would be unhappy in one of those, furball with texture, great fun. Of course, at the time there were lots of fields and some of them were not easy to capture...and there were lots of pilots.
We did have one pilot who liked to take the fur ball fields just to make people angry, and he was sometimes successful. But, we all defended his right to pay his 2 cents and get his 2 cents worth of experience.
More diversity will please everyone. The furball will find itself somewhere and the strat guys can blow things up without getting in one another's way until those final moments.
I am not the only one in this arena that can remember this...it works just fine. The folks who run this game had something to do with that....
One
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As for changing the arena:
New planes, sure would hope so. However changing the arena from anything but Dogfighting I don't think is going to happen unless HT gets a big push.
First few days of WWI this happened:
L0newWolf: so HiTech, planning on making an arena similar to the late war[?]
HiTech: no LW, ww1 plays better this way
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As for changing the arena:
New planes, sure would hope so. However changing the arena from anything but Dogfighting I don't think is going to happen unless HT gets a big push.
First few days of WWI this happened:
L0newWolf: so HiTech, planning on making an arena similar to the late war[?]
HiTech: no LW, ww1 plays better this way
Does it play better empty?
Wab
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As for changing the arena:
New planes, sure would hope so. However changing the arena from anything but Dogfighting I don't think is going to happen unless HT gets a big push.
First few days of WWI this happened:
L0newWolf: so HiTech, planning on making an arena similar to the late war[?]
HiTech: no LW, ww1 plays better this way
Hitech: Do you want WW1
Playerbase: Oh yes yes yes yes x 200
Playerbase: I can't run away please add faster planes so I can run away, no danger for me please, I'm leaving
Playerbase: I'm a big shot in WW2 but johnny n00b is raping me in here, I'm leaving
Hitech:????
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Pervert,
WW1 could be so much more than it is. At least add planes that can expand the current and very narrow combat fighting envelope.
I fly a few sorties, have my fun and Im done with it. WW1 desperately needs more choice, more flexibility, more entertainment.
There are many people in the WW2 arenas who could add a great deal to the WW1 community in there but the long term attraction just
is not there for most people. Its great having the little WW1 diversion but it simply needs more dynamics than it currently has.
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Pervert yes
Yeager no
Ww1 harder to dogfight ....
If the bases were how I described, in the opening
Players had a terrible initiation ....only a dozen left.
I play98% ww1
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I must be missing something here :headscratch: (apart from a few million brain cells, darn Bundy rum) Am I correct in assuming there are two inferred types of player, shall we say the first enjoys 'pure' dueling, the second enjoys strategic teamwork? If this first basic premise is invalid then please advise, and ignore what follows:
A 'pure' duel would consist of a 1v1 co-alt no HO shooting no advantage (therefore same a/c?) with the outcome decided by combat flying skills alone.
Strategic teamwork would involve gaining an advantage by concentration of force (superior numbers) and/or employing force multipliers (altitude, superior a/c etc) along with attrition of the enemy's resources, with the outcome decided by strategic ability, teamwork and combat flying skills.
But I think there's a third player type. One who simply enjoys a good fight but doesn't insist on a 'pure' duel. And I can't see what possible objection he would have to an arena full of players, no matter what they were doing.
WW1 saw the rise and subsequent demise of the lone wolf aviator; once all the early solo aces were dead, tactics changed and teamwork ruled. The role of the various aviation corps expanded from simple recon to ground support, strategic bombing, air defence and projection of air superiority. All of these activities involved (at times) aggressive air combat. Just as with WW2, the WW1 theme lends itself to complex and comprehensive replication for the entertainment of gamers. The thing's obviously got potential, seems a shame not to go the distance. And the answer to the 'pure' duelist issue is simple; have a WW1 duelling arena, and a WW1 MA - something for everyone (we're all friends here, right?) :pray
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Yeager no
Ww1 harder to dogfight ....
If the bases were how I described, in the opening
Players had a terrible initiation ....only a dozen left.
I play98% ww1
No what?
It is NOT harder to dogfight in WW1. It is easier for me. But that's all there is to do, and with only 4 aircraft it gets old pretty quick. Thankfully there is a lot of choice in AH.
I have zero idea what HTC has planned for WW1 but I am hopeful we will at least get some new rides. The sentiment I am starting to pick up on is that some of you want no new planes added because it will mess up your DR1 1v1s.
I hope they do mess it up. Bring on the SE5a, Albatross, Spad, Nieuport.
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As long as its not constant 1vs3-4-5,good
I wish it was 6vs6 and so on
They should of put a friendly 4k base right next to the friendly sea level base on the opening of ww1 arena. It would of stopped/spread the gang bang conga line and 70% tree/ground kill s
People would of had a chance to recover from sstalls
But we still have players who suck, will dive to fast, pull to hard and generally have no dogfight skills. As we see in some of the post here ...blimps and more plane request s...lolololo
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The dr1 will get its a kicked ....if you know how to fly the limits of other planes...ill beat them fairly easy in d7
If your dogfight skills are 1 trick pony I can see why ww1 areana is 'no gun's and you will need power up balloons and strafe tool sheds
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I think SCTusk has it correct we need a MA style WWI arena and a WWI Dueling arena. We currently have two WWI arenas and barely have people for one, the second is going to waste. I also agree with Yeager I would love to see the addition of the SE5a, Albatross, Spad, and Nieuport it can only make the game better. I too like the way it is now, keep one arena as is but add more planes. The other arena add tanks, bombers planes, Zeppelins, reconnaissance balloon that maybe could act as small radar towers around the bases. I hope that if we had two different style WWI arenas it would attract more people and these people would move between both arenas. :salute
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well...there are two arenas dedicated to WW1, for the moment. It is conceivable that we could have a DA and then a MA. Problem is I think HTC is going to progress very slowly and deliberately with any enhancements/additions to the WW1 arena (like all the other arenas).
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You don't need separate arenas to participate in the three different flying styles alluded to in the thread above. One large diverse arena takes care of it. The pilots with different needs simply sort themselves in the larger arena...this is not hypothetical, it happened that way in another place far away and now long ago.
Setting up several arenas simply spreads out the handful of WW1 pilots...each less populated arena gets even less populated over time as that single task grows stale. That is also not hypothetical...at least for WWI sims.
If there was a diverse arena...put us all in there and we'll sort it out. Of course right now...that is pretty wishful thinking. Hope it happens.
One
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Onerka what do you mean by one large diverse arena something like the DA or TA were there are several map in on large arena. :headscratch:
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More planes in WWI, yes. What planes? Fighters only.
Adding base capture an bombing and whatever creative BS you guys can come up with would create a horde with a base taking mentality. Quite honestly, I hate that about Late War so why in the hell would I want them in WWI?
Many people say, "If I can't bomb or do something else besides dogfight in WWI, I'm not going to play WWI." Those people that say that, need to stay away from WWI because it is about dogfighting at its most basic elements. Compared to WWII, your plane does not matter (compared to WWII mind you) as much as your skill flying that plane. ALOT of people can't deal with NOT having an advantage. Those people are the same people that do not fly WWI. Those people need to keep their twitty, horde dwelling arses in MA.
perdweeb
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Q...I wasn't very clear. Just a large map with a lot of bases of different sizes, different elevations...zep bases, loons associated with dar, arty sites so two seaters can spot arty, etc. Most people will still simply dog fight, but it gives it a purpose on occasion anyway.
The "base capture hordes" don't often fly in WWI sims...and when they do, lots of potential kills that come to you if you choose to defend...not a bad thing all in all.
Of course all of this is simply dreaming at this point...the folks that designed this game developed a WWI sim that had most of those things a while back. Hoping they will choose to do it again...will stick around for awhile to see if.
One
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Like I said, if you don't like the way it is now, stay out. Those people that want to bomb stuff can go to any other arena, why should they pollute my favorite one?
Dogfighting arena and it should stay that way.
perdweeb
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Didn't know it's your personal arena...
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ALOT of people can't deal with NOT having an advantage. Those people are the same people that do not fly WWI. Those people need to keep their twitty, horde dwelling arses in MA.
perdweeb
No offence intended here Perdweeb :salute but I have to remark - judging from the rankings you clearly have an advantage, in terms of skill.... although I see your preferred ride is the Dr1 so we won't know whether you're just good or really good until you move to another a/c. However you obviously currently enjoy an advantage over the 'average' player, and I wonder if you would also enjoy being restricted to dogfighting if your skills were less adequate?
Not everyone can be Top Dog, and the 'average' player might have to contend with always being in the middle, at best. Are they there merely as playthings for the hawks, or should there be some other activities available to them so they can also enjoy a little success from time to time?
ACM elitism is probably always going be a factor around here, but a little reality check might be in order.... hands up all the real WW1 pilots.... ? No takers?
Being good at flight sim ACM doesn't mean diddly squat, so being bad at it doesn't mean anything either. People sign up to have some fun, there should be some accomodation for that even though their skill sets are all different.
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Once we add zeppelins and bombs and base capturing we will have no arenas (except the lame DA) where there are no hordes, no base taking BS, and no pure dogfighting.
Add zeppelins, bombs, and other MA BS, WWI loses appeal to the people that enjoy it now. So, if you don't like WWI as it is now, maybe it is because you are a horde dwelling, bomberish, base taking twit that lacks the skill to compete in WWI as it is now. My suggestion to those people who want the MA BS added to WWI would be to stay far, far away from WWI Arena. Stay in your hordes fellas.
perdweeb
So what? You lose 10-12 guys that like the way the WW1 arena is now? Well yeah, that's part of the opportunity cost, but you have to take into consideration of how many people apparently enjoy the "horde dwelling, bomberish, base taking" stuff. Just because you consider all the above tactics nonsense does not give enough proof that they are detrimental to the game.
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If WW1 had observation balloons, zepps, bombers, tanks with 10 drunks.....capturable bases then how many people would you think would be in the WW1 arena on a Saturday night?
Thing is HTC has already said that isn't the plan. Best we could hope for is more fighters which is cool and might bump the long term average arena attendance up a few heads.
I would love base takers and tanks, zepps and observer baloons with gunner poitions just because it gives so many opportunities for other players to kill but I would be very surprised to ever see it.
just give me a SE5a and Ill be happy.
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Curious as to whether people really WANT a WWI MA or not. Think HT once said something like "The customer doesn't know what they really want" (been a while, bad memory so sorry if that's in my imagination). Would people really WANT a WWI arena like WWII? It would be the MA just in older/slower planes (see how so populated EW is?). People would just say Plane X is for noobs, Plane Y is for Pickers, Plane Z is for ganagers, Plane W is for alt dweebs, and so on. We'd just have one group of people whining for "the good ol days of respectable fights", people whining that something is wrong, people complaining that "this is what you asked for", and so on. Just saying, consider what is being asked for. :)
I personally like the dogfight style arena more then a base-capture arena but would love to see more planes/maps.
Go ahead, flame away
:salute
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I'm wondering about the "all-or-nothing" attidue.
Can really no one imagine a more varied game play and plane choices without base captures and win the war stuff? Some guys are getting quite hysterical while trying to discredit every single idea as "MA landgrab stuff"
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Curious as to whether people really WANT a WWI MA or not. Think HT once said something like "The customer doesn't know what they really want" (been a while, bad memory so sorry if that's in my imagination). Would people really WANT a WWI arena like WWII? It would be the MA just in older/slower planes (see how so populated EW is?). People would just say Plane X is for noobs, Plane Y is for Pickers, Plane Z is for ganagers, Plane W is for alt dweebs, and so on. We'd just have one group of people whining for "the good ol days of respectable fights", people whining that something is wrong, people complaining that "this is what you asked for", and so on. Just saying, consider what is being asked for. :)
I personally like the dogfight style arena more then a base-capture arena but would love to see more planes/maps.
Go ahead, flame away
:salute
1701E,
I can, of course, only speak for myself.
I feel some new planes would create a temporary sugar high of a week or two as people drop in to try them out for a few sorties. Then it would fade away again as it did with the arena’s initial release.
While I admit that many of my squadmates I flew with those first few weeks expressed some frustration with the new flight model learning curve, that can quickly be overcome with some stick time. What finally caused them to lose interest was there was simply no point. There was nothing to really do, and no reason really to do it. Game play was stale and one dimensional.
People try and make a comparison between the WWI arena and MW or EW arenas. I think the more illuminating comparison is between the LW MA and the DA Furball Lake. The same planeset is available to both. Yet the DA Furball Lake, while supporting a small dedicated fan base, doesn’t come near the popularity of the LW MA.
Given that they have the same planeset available, if players REALLY preferred a pure dogfight only arrangement with no strat or purpose , then the popularity of the two arena should be reversed. But as we know, that’s not the case. Even with the SAME planeset, players prefer the richer gaming experience of the LW MA’s goal oriented combat to the strat-less DA Furball Lake.
If HTC truly feels that a strat-less, pure dogfight only arena design is adequate to satisfy players, then there is no reason not to configure the LW MA the same way.
If HTC fears players would not be satisfied with that in the LW MA, why would they think WWI players would be satisfied with the same sterile gameplay?
Regards,
Wab
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I'm wondering about the "all-or-nothing" attidue.
Can really no one imagine a more varied game play and plane choices without base captures and win the war stuff? Some guys are getting quite hysterical while trying to discredit every single idea as "MA landgrab stuff"
I'm not all or nothing I just don't want to end up in the situation of the MA, that is if I want instant action I have to stack the odds hugely in opponents favour ie upping at capped fields or flying low into hoardes, this is not some kind of brag I don't want to spend hours flying around looking for a fight I've lost count recently of how many times I've logged on looking for action and ended up bailing after finding no one, then ended up throwing myself into lop sided odds and its getting worse imo.
If there was a way to bring change in to give more possibilty for WW1 combat I'd be up for it, be it bombers or AI zeps planes etc
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the situation in WW1 is nine people on and eight of em are in DR1s. I can guarantee you that gets old in a hurry :(
and my damned F1 keeps snapping wings off :furious
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the situation in WW1 is nine people on and eight of em are in DR1s. I can guarantee you that gets old in a hurry :(
and my damned F1 keeps snapping wings off :furious
Flying F1 exclusive now, biggest prob is the view can't see what an opponent is doing for 80% of the time, the wings snapping off is weird I can't remember it doing that as much tbh any sort of mediium speed barrel roll and you lose a wing or both.
Got a good lot of videos to watch through
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So, if you don't like WWI as it is now, maybe it is because you are a horde dwelling, bomberish, base taking twit that lacks the skill to compete in WWI as it is now.
ALOT of people can't deal with NOT having an advantage. Those people are the same people that do not fly WWI. Those people need to keep their twitty, horde dwelling arses in MA.
Did you come from AvA?
Since you're such an acm god why aren't you in the dueling tournament? Or is it that you're really just a self-richeous ego driven twit with an over-inflated view of herself that wouldn't last more than the first turn against anyone other than an uninitiated noob?
See you in the tourney... or not.
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I don't care for WWI because other than one plane turns better then the other three they all fly the same speed and seem to have the same clime rate. Once engaged you can't extend and it is an endless set of loops and circles until you hit a tree or are shot down. In real life one WWI plane did have speed or clime rate advantages over others. The D.VII did out clime other planes and had a faster acceleration.That is what made it one of the best fighters of WWI along with the D.VIII and the Spads. Here in the WWI arena it just seems to me the same plane with a different skin on it.
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I remember when they took the WW1 poll and all the posts that supported the idea of a WW1 arena. I wonder if any of those same people actually fly it, if they are still around that is. This is what I said,
Most players wont take the performance step down of the EWA. What makes you think they will run to the WW 1 arena where the airplanes in it can be outraced by the slowest of WW-ll planes? How many 10 min climbs to 10,000' you think they will endure? Only to be HO'd and pilot wounded and forced to climb again.
No, I think 9 out of 10 might fly the arena once and never do so again. These airplanes were so slow theres really no way you could fight them on a regular map. Even worse AH will be spending all those man hours creating a different sim when their main sim needs so much more work. More updates, more airplanes, more vehicles. Mostly tho I just think almost all their players just wont like the performance step down of a WW-l sim. Especially if it was modeled realistically. I think Korea would get far, far more use.
And guess what?
I just left the LWMA, after being away from the game for 9mos. And I saw the same procession of LAs, Spixteens, 190s, P-51s, 163s, 262s, the player base simply doesnt want to go 100mph in a WW1 airplane. Heck they dont even want to go 300 mph tops in a WW2 one. It was a mistake modeling this arena and AH made a msitake listening to all the sycophants who told them they would love the arena and now never use it.
And the real tragedy is its a great arena and I think the modeling of the airplanes is lovely. Ive only tooled around in it cause I have no interest in WW1 flight, I'd say they exceded their promise of building a good arena. But then I think of the WW2 planes that could have been modeled instead, The Beau, the 111, the TU-2, Firefly,A-26,B-29,G4m Betty,ME-210. Its a long list.
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I remember when they took the WW1 poll and all the posts that supported the idea of a WW1 arena. I wonder if any of those same people actually fly it, if they are still around that is. This is what I said, And guess what?
I just left the LWMA, after being away from the game for 9mos. And I saw the same procession of LAs, Spixteens, 190s, P-51s, 163s, 262s, the player base simply doesnt want to go 100mph in a WW1 airplane. Heck they dont even want to go 300 mph tops in a WW2 one. It was a mistake modeling this arena and AH made a msitake listening to all the sycophants who told them they would love the arena and now never use it.
And the real tragedy is its a great arena and I think the modeling of the airplanes is lovely. Ive only tooled around in it cause I have no interest in WW1 flight, I'd say they exceded their promise of building a good arena. But then I think of the WW2 planes that could have been modeled instead, The Beau, the 111, the TU-2, Firefly,A-26,B-29,G4m Betty,ME-210. Its a long list.
Rich,
I fully accept that there are people who are not into the WWI air combat era. WWI will always have a smaller fan base than WWII. Just like Baseball will always have a smaller fanbase than Football. However, there are people who are not into WWII era. There are people who say “who wants to crawl around at 400mph? I want jets! Mach baby!” There are people who are not into the jet era. They prefer the open cockpits and wind in their face of WWI crates. Different strokes for different folks.
I think it is unfair for you to label anyone who expressed an interest in a WWI arena as a sycophant. They may have merely had a different vision of what a WWI arena would look like than HTC did. The survey question did not specify a 4 plane, strat-less H2H arena. I suspect that most people who stated they would have an interest were envisioning a fully fleshed out arena with a variety of fighter, bombers, observation planes, balloons, zeppelins, tanks, and a reasonable strategic system. At least that’s what I was thinking of when I expressed an interest. I was expecting a an enhanced, improved version of what Dale and Doug built for DOA the same way they improved and enhanced their WWII sim over what they did with WB.
I still assert that RBII3d, DOA, and now ROF have built up a respectable WWI market that could be harvested by HTC with the correct offering the way they have largely gathered up the WWII market with AH. However, the current WWI arena design just ain’t gonna get it done.
Regards,
Wab
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I remember when they took the WW1 poll and all the posts that supported the idea of a WW1 arena. I wonder if any of those same people actually fly it, if they are still around that is. This is what I said, And guess what?
I just left the LWMA, after being away from the game for 9mos. And I saw the same procession of LAs, Spixteens, 190s, P-51s, 163s, 262s, the player base simply doesnt want to go 100mph in a WW1 airplane. Heck they dont even want to go 300 mph tops in a WW2 one. It was a mistake modeling this arena and AH made a msitake listening to all the sycophants who told them they would love the arena and now never use it.
And the real tragedy is its a great arena and I think the modeling of the airplanes is lovely. Ive only tooled around in it cause I have no interest in WW1 flight, I'd say they exceded their promise of building a good arena. But then I think of the WW2 planes that could have been modeled instead, The Beau, the 111, the TU-2, Firefly,A-26,B-29,G4m Betty,ME-210. Its a long list.
Well I'm glad they made this "mistake", as you so put it....... And the B-29?? really? Every thing I've ever read here on the boards is HT will never put the B-29 in the game.A long list? So what.Go start your own game and fill it with every plane. Why do you feel the need to tell HT how to run his game? If you don't like flying the WW1 planes don't. If you feel the HT has wasted your $15 a month on "tragedy's" and "mistakes" well then go away.
So a lot of people who said they wanted a WW1 arena changed their minds.So people said it would never work.Not many fly in there and now all you say is HA! see... what a waste of time!! Real constructive bro....
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And I saw the same procession of LAs, Spixteens, 190s, P-51s, 163s, 262s, the player base simply doesnt want to go 100mph
But then I think of the WW2 planes that could have been modeled instead, The Beau, the 111, the TU-2, Firefly,A-26,B-29,G4m Betty,ME-210. Its a long list.
Do you see the fallacy of your own argument? The vast majority of players in AH play the LW arena. and the vast majority of those players fly four plane types so why on earth is wasting time on four WW1 planes any greater than wasting time on all the other rides you mentioned that no one will ever fly? Using the logic of your qoute above HTC has already finished the game with LAs Spixteens 190s and 51Ds. Thats all anyone flys and will ever fly, right?
The WW1 arena has suffered because of the DR1. Most people will tell you that. Its a single plane arena for the most part and the novelty wore off real fast for most people. If HTC does nothing more with the WW1 arena, well they at least got 9 players on the rolls who otherwise wouldnt be. Lot of us are hoping they expand the gameplay in there with new features and new rides. I mean why not give us some new WW1 toys since the LW arenas are already finished, right? Remember? LAs, Spixteens, 190s, 51s.
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Well Im glad there are some defenders and users of the arena. As Ive said I admire the work done there. Just cause I dont use it much doesnt mean I dont admire it. But I stick to my guns that the interest to make it viable was never really there in the first place.
But that doesnt mean I "want" it to fail. Who knows maybe I'll be wrong.
Yeags my answer to you would be for them to model competative aircraft. Like the Mossie XVl :aok. That or fill out plane sets of the era. Doing both should be priority. Like the TU-2, the Fairey, the Yak-3, the 111, the A-26, the ME-210 or 410. Heck even a slow plane like the brewster can be a big hit cause the interest was there. That and due to its importance in actual WW-ll history.
Wabs Ive been in that arena and i think it was a terrific job on AHs part. So I stick to my opinion. :salute
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I just left the LWMA, after being away from the game for 9mos. And I saw the same procession of LAs, Spixteens, 190s, P-51s, 163s, 262s, the player base simply doesnt want to go 100mph in a WW1 airplane. Heck they dont even want to go 300 mph tops in a WW2 one. It was a mistake modeling this arena and AH made a msitake listening to all the sycophants who told them they would love the arena and now never use it.
I am one of those sycophants who do not fly WWI any more.
And I still claim I like WWI planes more than WWII planes. If there was a game similar to AHII MA's, but with WWI planes, I would be there in a heartbeat.
What is keeping me from flying WWI is not the lack of speed, but simply the arena setup and the extremily limited gameplay and combat options. After about 2 initially very fun weeks I quickly burned out. And I guess I'm not alone. Many players did had a lot of fun in those planes, so it could not only have been a general aversion vs slow biplanes that lead to the decline.
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for them to model competative aircraft. Like the Mossie XVl :aok. That or fill out plane sets of the era. Doing both should be priority.
Like the TU-2, the Fairey, the Yak-3, the 111, the A-26, the ME-210 or 410. Heck even a slow plane like the brewster can be a big hit cause the interest was there. That and due to its importance in actual WW-ll history.
Wabs Ive been in that arena and i think it was a terrific job on AHs part. So I stick to my opinion. :salute
Thats the problem with WW1. There is a single very superior plane and three inferior (to the DR1 at least) planes. The arena didnt take off because there was no filled out competative planeset. It is basically a very limited single plane game at the moment and thats why all those people who expressed interest have simply walked away. Bad planning and implimentation AFAIC, sorry to say.
The late war planeset is a monster and is almost complete with the major planes already represented (and a few that should never have been added). Also, I would never fly any of those planes you suggested so thats a waste of HTCs time far as Im concerned :banana:
What I need is a SE5a, Albatross, Nieuport and SPAD. That is HTCs time well spent in order to fix that WW1 arena so more people are brought back to the fold :) Remember that. The WW1 arena isnt a bad idea, it was just not implimented in the best way it could have been.
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...The vast majority of players in AH play the LW arena, and the vast majority of those players fly four plane types...
I thought I'd check that statement (even though doing so adds nothing to the original discussion). Going by K+D (the stats don't list sorties) the "vast majority" of LW players don't fly just 4 planes. In fact 3 of the 4 most popular rides are tanks so they don't fly at all. The 4 most popular planes (P51D, Spit XVI, N1K2, and La7) are only 14% of total rides or 22% counting only fighters. 22% isn't exactly a "vast majority" ;) The LW arena is remarkably diverse and "everybody is flying Spit 16s" is observational bias.
Now to something slightly more relevant: in my opinion adding more WWI planes won't really change the game play. All WWI planes are very slow. The differences are going to be in the 20 mph range. With a differential speed of 20 mph trying to extend out of a turning battle is like trying to get away from a machine gun nest by riding a bicycle. The speed of the WWI planes is so much slower than the speed of bullets that you can't do anything but commit to a tight turning battle- one that the DrI will usually win. Add to that the fact that just keeping your plane in the air and not ripping off wings is difficult, and you end up with pretty limiting game play.
Now, does that mean that more speed leads to more diverse game play? Not necessarily. The WWII planes are the optimum I suspect. In Air Warrior I found the Korean arena (Mig15 vs F86) to be pretty boring. Your target was a single pixel most of the time and you had spit second firing solutions.
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Now, does that mean that more speed leads to more diverse game play? Not necessarily.
The gameplay/fights get more diverse by creating different combat situations. Right now we basically have the treetop duelling dogfight only. With more diverse situations, other plane's strengths might shine a bit more.
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Thats the problem with WW1. There is a single very superior plane and three inferior (to the DR1 at least) planes. The arena didn't take off because there was no filled out competative planeset. It is basically a very limited single plane game at the moment and thats why all those people who expressed interest have simply walked away. Bad planning and implimentation AFAIC, sorry to say.
The late war planeset is a monster and is almost complete with the major planes already represented (and a few that should never have been added). Also, I would never fly any of those planes you suggested so thats a waste of HTCs time far as Im concerned :banana:
What I need is a SE5a, Albatross, Nieuport and SPAD. That is HTCs time well spent in order to fix that WW1 arena so more people are brought back to the fold :) Remember that. The WW1 arena isnt a bad idea, it was just not implimented in the best way it could have been.
Yeags I know you for a honest man. If you were running the show would you pour more resources into what turned out to be a failed gamble? I was just there, at 1600 hrs on a Sat., and it had 2 people in it. Theres always going to be a DR1 airplane in any arena of any war. You control it with eny and/or perks. Further when "lesser" WW2 airplanes are modeled they can always find a home in MW or EW. You cant do that with WW1. That lack of participation breeds even less participation should surprise nobody. Lastly I must say that anyone who thought a large contingant of WW1 airframes would have been provided in the first year simply wasnt living in reality.
Its a monster job getting new airframes modeled and I think they have done a fine job getting five out that fly so nicely. I mean it. I like the artwork, the airplanes, the history. I hope they keep it going and it gains some steam. :salute
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The dr1 is not superior
Any one want to Test? I am giving out free beat downs
Most pilot s can't fight, so they bail back to the comfort of horde. BNZ MA
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The dr1 is not superior
Any one want to Test? I am giving out free beat downs
Most pilot s can't fight, so they bail back to the comfort of horde. BNZ MA
LMAO :rock :rock :aok
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Thanks Rich.
I seriously hope HTC doesnt let the WW1 whither away and die off. I just think they could have put a much better planeset into the initial release. Those late war kites very well may have generated a better experience. The DR1 is a odd little flyer anyway. Should have been left on the "do last" list, in my opinion.
Im going to go in there tonight a play a few rounds. It wont last long though. My frustration in there has already been well documented in these forums but I will have some fun for a few minutes before heading off to my beloved MW.
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The dr1 is not superior
Really? Then I suspect your explanation of this should be entertaining:
Plane Kill/Death Ratio
D.VII 0.75
Dr.I 1.34
F.1 1.02
F.2B 0.83
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The gameplay/fights get more diverse by creating different combat situations. Right now we basically have the treetop duelling dogfight only. With more diverse situations, other plane's strengths might shine a bit more.
Yeah.. I know, that's what I was saying. I was trying to point out that going even faster than WWII doesn't make things even better; i.e. Korea could turn out boring.
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I was just in there. I'd bet its the best arena to really hone dogfighting skills sans none. You really have to fly those things with instinct. I would look at the limited set as an opportunity to combat in the same plane, therefor making all things equal.
And the "feel" of the planes?? Very good modeling I'd say. Im going to try and spend some time in there myself. Most of all if "gentlemanly rules" apply. As in no freaking HO'ing!
I really like the throttle response and the trim response, most of all the elevators. This is a better arena then its stats say. Anyhoo Im beat tonight. :salute
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Here is my take on it, there simply is not enough to do to keep people interested as it is now.
That is not to say that it needs to be a a field capture, win the war setup.
But there needs to be an alternative to the furball.
With the current low numbers, unless your one of the top 4 sticks in the arena at any given point eventually you will get frustrated. Would you really fly in LWOrange if there were only 10 pilots in there, and 8 of them shot you down every time you saw one? Ohhh for a tour you might, but after 3 tours? Every time you did manage to get a kill one of the pro's swoops in and takes you down. How long would you keep coming back?
Rather than leave the arena, wouldn't it be better if there was "something" else to do?
Be it zep hunting, balloon busting, convoy strafing, etc.
That doesn't mean it has to be tied field capture, or to winning the war, resetting the map, etc.
It just means there needs to be alternatives. Something to do other than furball. So when the next 3 guys look at the arena select screen, instead of seeing 8 guys, maybe they see 14 or 20. And the next bunch see 25 or 30. People will draw people, if you can keep them interested, keep them busy flying and having at least some fun.
Also when there are lots of people in there, the odds are much better that you can get a kill or 2 and get out to land them. You still have the same 4 top sticks, but there are also a lot of average pilots and probably some new guys. So the percentage chance of winning a fight is much higher. When its under 10, those odds go down dramatically for the average pilot.
Its a bit like hitting your head against a brick wall.
You try it, and it hurts, but you really want to do this and get through, so you try it again.
And you keep trying it until the pain level eventually gets high enough to override your desire.
Its the same with the WWI arena. Eventually either you master it, and become one of the 5 or 6 top sticks, or the pain and frustration drives you away. Personally I loved the first tour, 2nd tour started hurting, and by the end of the 3rd tour I'd look at the arena screen and alt F4. I would go do anything that was less frustrating and painful.
More things to do, that involve flying, that take a certain amount of skill, and daring, with a certain amount of risk, and that leaves you feeling ready to maybe go take another crack at that furball.
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^^^^
This.
Or from another point of view: the (LW) MA gives players a way to "win" (and thus have fun) in many different way, on many different levels, even when not being one of the top-notch fighter guys.
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The dr1 is not superior
We already covered this BGB; the general consensus I believe, is that it is currently superior - well supported by such facts as 1. more difficult to break 2. tighter turns 3. easier to fly competitively etc. The list goes on, and the stats are supportive (if not conclusive).
Here's an aspect perhaps not yet covered: I'm guessing that people are flying the WW1 birds more recklessly (i.e. less realistically) than the WW2 kit. I've tinkered about in the WW2 arenas from time to time and noticed how generally realistic the flying is, according at least to my expectations (from the literature, movies etc). But the WW1 arena seems to foster all or nothing low level stall turning wing bending madness, which is fine I guess (and fun) but with the nature of the Dr1 as currently modelled only puts more nails in the coffin of the level playing field. The Dr1 is mainly forgiving of this type of mistreatment, whereas the other three a/c will punish you quickly for getting too close to the edge.
I recently saw a very cool documentary from the UK about a couple of RAF Red Arrows pilots who had a go flying WW1 replica a/c (titled Fighting the Red Baron). These guys are the full business, long and distinguished careers in aviation, and they were nervous each time they flew in the replicas. Even the humble and rather mild Avro 504k. It was very clear they were not comfortable, and that any aerial manoeuvring was going to be done with great care and trepidation. It only serves to increase my humour whenever someone in a Dr1 suffering delusions of heroic aerial prowess out flat-turns me at tree level and flies away from my Camel's corpse with some taunt or worse some patronising advice. Not suggesting I'm not just as guilty, no way I'd attempt some of the stuff in the RW that I pull in the arena, but the Camel does force a certain respect from it's pilots, whereas the Dr1 says 'I'm a game, play me'.
Whatever the secret ingredient is in the WW2 arenas which encourages more realistic behaviour, we could use some in WW1. If it boils down to simple goal orientation, then I'm all for it.
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Gonna watch that documentary now its at :aok
http://veehd.com/video/4043191_Fighting-the-Red-Baron-2010 (http://veehd.com/video/4043191_Fighting-the-Red-Baron-2010)
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Here is my take on it, there simply is not enough to do to keep people interested as it is now.
That is not to say that it needs to be a a field capture, win the war setup.
But there needs to be an alternative to the furball.
With the current low numbers, unless your one of the top 4 sticks in the arena at any given point eventually you will get frustrated. Would you really fly in LWOrange if there were only 10 pilots in there, and 8 of them shot you down every time you saw one? Ohhh for a tour you might, but after 3 tours? Every time you did manage to get a kill one of the pro's swoops in and takes you down. How long would you keep coming back?
Rather than leave the arena, wouldn't it be better if there was "something" else to do?
Be it zep hunting, balloon busting, convoy strafing, etc.
That doesn't mean it has to be tied field capture, or to winning the war, resetting the map, etc.
It just means there needs to be alternatives. Something to do other than furball. So when the next 3 guys look at the arena select screen, instead of seeing 8 guys, maybe they see 14 or 20. And the next bunch see 25 or 30. People will draw people, if you can keep them interested, keep them busy flying and having at least some fun.
Also when there are lots of people in there, the odds are much better that you can get a kill or 2 and get out to land them. You still have the same 4 top sticks, but there are also a lot of average pilots and probably some new guys. So the percentage chance of winning a fight is much higher. When its under 10, those odds go down dramatically for the average pilot.
Its a bit like hitting your head against a brick wall.
You try it, and it hurts, but you really want to do this and get through, so you try it again.
And you keep trying it until the pain level eventually gets high enough to override your desire.
Its the same with the WWI arena. Eventually either you master it, and become one of the 5 or 6 top sticks, or the pain and frustration drives you away. Personally I loved the first tour, 2nd tour started hurting, and by the end of the 3rd tour I'd look at the arena screen and alt F4. I would go do anything that was less frustrating and painful.
More things to do, that involve flying, that take a certain amount of skill, and daring, with a certain amount of risk, and that leaves you feeling ready to maybe go take another crack at that furball.
:aok
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Did you come from AvA?
Since you're such an acm god why aren't you in the dueling tournament? Or is it that you're really just a self-richeous ego driven twit with an over-inflated view of herself that wouldn't last more than the first turn against anyone other than an uninitiated noob?
See you in the tourney... or not.
I love you...
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Worm
... can you beat a dr1?? Of course you can, especially given a small advantage in e or alt.
Using stats to read reality in game play can be wrong
We have a much smaller % of field to sample
That's like saying the spitfire is #1...using stats
.how many play ww1
...50? Maybe? I only get a small time in early Pacific standard Time
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715, what shade do you fly under ...we can playpin the dr1
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Exactly Lusche, its another way of saying the exact same thing, except yours is shorter. :)
If the only thing there was to do in AH, is fly into a small furball of 4 - 10 people, and try to win a 1 on 1 duel with one of the top 10 people in AH. How many people do you think would keep paying to do just that? The mains would be a ghost town. Its the mains diversity that keeps people there even if they are not having a great day. Because there are many different things to do.
The WWI arena is a 1 trick pony, that's all he does. If you want people to stay there, your need to give them other things to do.
^^^^
This.
Or from another point of view: the (LW) MA gives players a way to "win" (and thus have fun) in many different way, on many different levels, even when not being one of the top-notch fighter guys.
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Done a bit of testing in game today between the 3 fighters was kinda shocked by the results tbh especially in dive which I had previously believed the d7 to have a huge advantage in, at approx 175mph the DR1 has bottom wing failure + elevators Camel suffers wing failure at around 180mph D7 loses wheels at 180mph and 186mph elevators come off.
This is an area I believed the camel and especially the D7 was markedly superior in. Theres a 11mph difference from top to bottom. The camel I still belive to be a match for the DR1 but the lack of the ability to adjust views means you end up losing angles you can't afford while wating to regain sight of the opponent. Short of cheating by making a glass cockpit :lol
I'd have to revise my earlier view on the DR1 no matter how much I love it, based on the fact you can't fight what you can't see it is a mismatched arena because of the DR1 or the lack of a faster plane :(.
To alot of the frequent players credit though they use the d7 more :salute
Perhaps a Spad or SE5A is in order for the good of the arena, even I get bored flying the DR1 all the time.
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Once we add zeppelins and bombs and base capturing we will have no arenas (except the lame DA) where there are no hordes, no base taking BS, and no pure dogfighting.
Add zeppelins, bombs, and other MA BS, WWI loses appeal to the people that enjoy it now. So, if you don't like WWI as it is now, maybe it is because you are a horde dwelling, bomberish, base taking twit that lacks the skill to compete in WWI as it is now. My suggestion to those people who want the MA BS added to WWI would be to stay far, far away from WWI Arena. Stay in your hordes fellas.
perdweeb
Calling Center say again, You are broken and un-readable.
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715, what shade do you fly under ...we can playpin the dr1
My "shade" is 715B, but after last night I won't fly in the WWI arena anymore. Normally when there is something new or different in AH, I reserve judgment until it has settled in for several weeks or even months, as changes tend to grow on you. I have to say that each time I've flown in the WWI arena I've actually liked it less and less to the point now where I pretty much hate it. Part of that is due to the arena now being populated mostly with experts which means I do absolutely nothing but die repeatedly. Part is really that I am so sick of the flight model. I have no idea whatsoever if the flight model is accurate, it probably is. I'm just saying it's annoying. It's like trying to thread a needle that's attached to a bobble head.
But that's OK. The WWI arena can be for experts to duel each other (kinda of what the AvA turns into periodically).
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I popped into the WWI arena last night. I never left the tower. There were three Bish, all with K/S >1 and K/D >2 fighting one Rook with both K/S and K/D <1. Since I'm always a Bish I thought about switching sides but decided to go to the LWMA instead. I figured the Rook would soon tire of dying and them I'd be left being fodder for the "experten".
It seems to me in a situation like that the "experten" ought to switch sides to balance things out. Had that been the case I might have tried to fly there. As it was there was no reason for me to up as a Bish and make matters worse nor did I care to go through the frustration of facing three guys more familiar with the flight models than me.
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Here is my take on it, there simply is not enough to do to keep people interested as it is now.
Ghost,
I think your WWI arena experience mirrors mine almost exactly.
I think the arena got that way because the initial player base, which was composed of a wide range of skill levels that I think is vital to a healthy arena ecosystem, slowly evaporated away until there were 15 or so hard core experten who had completely mastered that flight model. That self-reinforces to inhibit any new players who might drop in. Especially, as you pointed out, there are no game-play options other than getting on the conveyor belt that leads into the single meat-grinder of the arena. I think you lose that player diversity, as you suggested, because there are no game-play options, no additional ways to experience the WWI arena universe. I know the purists will howl and rail that all you ever need is the pure furball, but the majority of players will quickly lose interest, and what you end up with is a small, closed, 15 player gentleman’s club.
My earlier challenge to HTC to remove all strat, bombers, vehicles, and base capture from their WWII arenas was only rhetorical. I know they would never do that. They know they would never do that. The “dogfight-only” purists know they would never do that. They would lose their business. THAT is illuminating. Maybe back in 1995 you could get away with a dog-fight only format…maybe. But not in 2010. The bar has been moved much higher than that. HTC has largely been responsible for doing that. Their playerbase has come to expect that deep level of interactivity, variety, and immersion that they have seen in the WWII MA.
There are a wide variety of missions that can be accomplished by a wide variety of skill levels in the WWII MA. And those players will enjoy those tasks because what they do has a real EFFECT on the game-world. They can contribute to their teams identifiable WIN condition. And opposing team members don’t want them to win, or themselves to lose, so they resist those missions. Now you start getting a whole expanding tree of potential combat situations from those interacting missions and counter missions. THAT is what creates and maintains a healthy arena ecosystem. Remove that, and you end up with static, sterile, one dimensional game-play.
Now, I have never been too sure of what you are suggesting by these other activities that don’t have to do with “winning-the-war” or base capture. I wish you would provide some exact, detailed examples. I don’t want to appear to disagree without understanding fully. However, I’m pretty sure that what ever it is would HAVE to have a real, identifiable effect on the game world for it to hold peoples interest. I’m pretty sure, to be effecteive, there would eventually have to be some kind of win-the-war goal to generate the level of intensity you get in the Mains. It has to achieve something or people will quickly lose interest. It can’t just be an amusement, or busy work. That would provide a temporary sugar high, but not solve the underlying problem with the WWI arena design.
BTW, I’ve said it before, and shouldn’t have to reiterate, but I will. I have the untmost respect for HTC and think they did an exceptional job modeling the WWI aircraft. Which just makes it all the more heartbreaking. I feel their efforts are being wasted. It’s the arena design those aircraft are embedded in that is failing them. It could be so much more.
Regards,
Wab
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Really hating on me huh? Kepp it comin.
If you don't see my point, that is fine with me. But I can guarantee we will see no bombers or base capturing in WWI. Fr that I am grateful.
SCTusk, yes I like the DRI for many reasons. IF you would like me to fly a D7 to show my skill or lack thereof, fine.
BaldEagl, I'm not the best, not even close. I am in the tourney and I will probably lose the first round. But I enjoy fighting the horde and keeping WWI Arena a pure fighting arena seeing as how that is the only one we have that is pure dogfighting with no major advantages apart from skill level.
By the way, WormZ1La is much better than me in DRI :salute Worm
perdweeb
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First of all Wab nothing but respect headed your way from me. <S>
I agree we probably had virtually exactly the same kind of experiences.
As to what I was thinking, well I wasn't thinking field capture, win the war. HT has pretty much made his mind up on that particular subject. And getting him to change his mind takes either a whole lot of expensive booze, or a nuke, or perhaps you could bribe his wife and get her to whisper sweetly into his ear at night. But for me, I'll accept that what HT has said will be. Its his Sandbox.
That does not mean that we can not have other things to do.
Thanks that might effect the arena, or somethings that might not.
Maybe they'd just be contact points for combat like a task group is in the main?
Things like a Zeppelin's in the middle of the map, so we can grab a wingman or 2 and take a try at Zep hunting. What if you could jump into the zep for your side and man a gun if its under attack? No one said it had to be easy! Just that with good flying and perhaps a wingman you might make it back to base often enough to keep you interested!
Or perhaps things like Barrage Balloon busting. Now if your going to tie that to an arena setting, you need to think through what it would do to gameplay. And while I wouldn't necessarily want to see all flack's at a base to be turned off. Perhaps if the enemy destroyed 50% of your balloons the range that your flacks fired at was reduced significantly until they regenerated.
Again, they can be defended, that is just a matter of map making.
Convoy strafing, dare I say (nope, chickened out)
Well you really wouldn't want anything making it not possible to fly certain birds would you? No I didn't think so.
Or perhaps it could effect ammo load available for a field?
You can still up, you can still fly, and fight. But perhaps there is no incendiary ammo available for balloon busting or Zep hunting? Or perhaps your only able to take 50% of a normal ammo load?
I leave it in HT's hands. He's the guru of gameplay, so I'm not going to ask for something he's never willing to give. My point is that all of us who were in WWI that first tour obviously were there for a reason. And the way it is now really has not been good for gameplay and arena health long term.
So perhaps its time to leave one arena as it is, pure grinding furball. And experiment with the other.
Maybe contact a few of the map makers to see what idea's they have. After all a new map couldn't hardly hurt, right?
And if he can figure out a way to give us things to do, that do not involve field capture, and arena resets, well heck I'm all for that. What I do know, he's modeled a Zep before for DOA, so I know he can do that if he choses. DOA even had the ability to call in arty strikes from 2 seater planes, but only from the rear seat. I know we have trucks and trains in the AH mains that could be slowed down, remodeled to WWI look. I'm willing to bet he could model a Zep that cruised around the arena not all that disimilar from a task force. With a half a dozen mannable guns on it that can be jumped into. Just like the manable guns on the fleet.
Heck he could even get totally whacked and award ribbons and medals for doing enough damage.
Look at all that RPG players go through to "level up" or that WoT players go through to get the next tier of tank. Talk about the carrot on the stick, they've got guys jumping through hoops just to play with a tank thats got a 45mm gun instead of a 37mm, with maybe a 1/4" more armor. And they'll grind for days to save the credits to buy it, and earn the XP points to research and unlock it, then tweak it up. Who says we have to have all the planes available to everyone all the time in all arena's?
But instead of an RPS what about "earning" those birds with successful sorties?
Its a brand new arena, the sky is virtually the limit. Isn't it worth some time to try something new? Perhaps something totally different?
Perhaps Wab in my old age I am finally learning some wisdom. Some windmills can not be felled by tilting at them. Perhaps we need to find a different way. So I prefer not to ask for specifics in general. If I can tweak god's beard and perhaps get him to sit up and think, perhaps give us something totally new, well I'm all for that. I really prefer not to get into heated discussions with him. You really don't get anywhere that way.
But I do know, that even he has to see that its not working as it is.
And that the only way it will work, long term, is to give people who are not in the top 10 a chance to fly, and do something. Something that doesn't put them back in the tower every 5 minutes. Something that encourages them to stick around, try something else.
After all isn't that why the mains have Bombers? And Tanks? And PT boats? And Task Groups?
Isn't all that for diversity? Well the WWI arena is screaming for diversity. And if you build it, we will come.
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I was in there earlier and two guys were upping from the opposite field so I upped in the devils little triplane and shot them down 5 times. They were in D7s and Sops. Then they left, one of them said I could "have the map". I wondered about that. Oh well.
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at approx 175mph the DR1 has bottom wing failure + elevators Camel suffers wing failure at around 180mph D7 loses wheels at 180mph and 186mph elevators come off.
Good tests Perv but I think there are other structural issues beyond overspeed; add some G to the equation at even moderate dive speeds and the Camel and F2b fall apart (not sure about the D7) yet the F2b had a reputation as a sturdy a/c and fast in the dive. The Dr1 seems to hold together better under high G loads in dives.
SCTusk, yes I like the DRI for many reasons. IF you would like me to fly a D7 to show my skill or lack thereof, fine.
perdweeb
It's not my business to tell people what to fly Perdweeb, I do however highly recommend that once someone becomes competitive in the Dr1 they try another ride for a number of reasons. If you seriously want the WW1 arena to continue as a furball arena only, then you should see the need for better balance between the new and experienced players. I'm not suggesting anyone 'let' a new player shoot them down, but as they progress the dynamics of 1v1 dogfights with anything other than a Dr1 should at least encourage them, whereas the pesky little triplane will probably never even drift across their sights.
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It's not my business to tell people what to fly Perdweeb, I do however highly recommend that once someone becomes competitive in the Dr1 they try another ride for a number of reasons. If you seriously want the WW1 arena to continue as a furball arena only, then you should see the need for better balance between the new and experienced players.
This is very good advice.
- oldman
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Let me say here that it is ultimately up to the n00b individual how they want to approach the game.
When I first logged on for the very first time in WBs I was mercilessly murdered OTR 22 times before I could even start forward momentum. This was before I even understood how to start the motor, get airborne and get the wheels up. I was on as a total freshly birthed n00b just excited as hell to be online. What I didnt have a sense of at that time was that I was upping in the middle of a total vultch fest.
It was my desire to learn and become accomplished at this seemingly monstrous task of becoming a highly regaled combat ace that I suffered many months at the hands of vicious virtual killers before I even broke even on K/D.
My point is you have to WANT to become accomplished. If getting waxed over and over shuts down your enthusiasm for wanting to play then I seriously wonder if you even belong in the game.
Yes, it is a difficult game to master. I always help anyone who asks for it. Always.
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:salute perdweeb
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It was my desire to learn and become accomplished at this seemingly monstrous task of becoming a highly regaled combat ace that I suffered many months at the hands of vicious virtual killers before I even broke even on K/D.
My point is you have to WANT to become accomplished. If getting waxed over and over shuts down your enthusiasm for wanting to play then I seriously wonder if you even belong in the game.
Yes, it is a difficult game to master. I always help anyone who asks for it. Always.
Yes, this is what keeps me flying
I hope the numbers come back up, I really like the www1 arena. thanks for the rudder tip Worm <S>
Queston how much of a performance hit do you have going from 25% fuel to 50%?
and when are you no longer considered a noob? one year flyin?
<S>
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Your most welcome Mr Skull. If anyone wants some training in the old planes, just look me up. Helping people get better at flying them can only improve the arena, which im all for.
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Having spent around 30 hrs in the WWI arena this month, I guess I must enjoy the current setup. :) So I won’t comment on the long term future of the arena and whether it should move towards the mains style or not, but I would like to see a change to the current map layout.
Having three "sides" I thought was meant to promote side balancing, but the current map (airfield layout) actively discourages this.
Currently most engagements take place in one of three places - the shortest distance between any two opposing sides.
(http://www.swift72.co.uk/forum_pics/WWI-map1.jpg)
If I log in and there is already two players up, I would prefer to switch to the third side, doubling the number of active targets for me and not unbalancing the numbers on anyone side. But then I'm faced with a very long flight (four times the distance) to the current fight (and a very long flight home if I survive).
(http://www.swift72.co.uk/forum_pics/WWI-map2.jpg)
It's not the distance between individual bases that's the problem, just the layout seeks to exclude the third side.
If we could move three of the current bases near no mans land, while retaining the current distance between the bases, it would look something like this.
(http://www.swift72.co.uk/forum_pics/WWI-map5.jpg)
The third side is now less than twice the distance away at worst.
(http://www.swift72.co.uk/forum_pics/WWI-map6.jpg)
If moving the bases is to complicated/time consuming, maybe you could just switch the bases around a bit in one of the WWI arenas. If each friendly base were opposite each other rather than next to each other it would look like this.
(http://www.swift72.co.uk/forum_pics/WWI-map7.jpg)
Which would at least reduce the distance for the third side a little, although not ideal.
(http://www.swift72.co.uk/forum_pics/WWI-map8.jpg)
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WTG Sid :salute u :rock :rock :rock
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very well thought out sid :salute i would agree to the base change so there could easily be 3 stiks fighting each other. Sid....you should send that into HT for approval.
And what is this tourny I keep reading about? WW1 tourny?
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Make the 2nd friendly base at 3-4k..
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I just don't get the three country system :( I'm reminded of an old Readers Digest article, some guy reminiscing about his childhood... he used to play joyfully with his dad's binoculars, so they gave him a plastic toy pair of his own. He remembered feeling disappointed, saying the toy was lightweight and lacked that smooth expensive feel in the movement. The toy had none of that particular 'binocularness' which a decent real pair has.
Same thing here, for me anyway. Three sides? Sky full of Dr1's? (well, as far as that goes these days) And some unwritten law that you don't jump in on a 1v1. Yeah, there's definitely some 'WW1ness' missing.
wah! :cry Want a real one.
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you could throw free beer,girls and a 60 inch screen to go with a comfy chair and you still won't get anyone in there. :cheers:
Best way to discribe it....It's like visiting relatives, nice to visit, better to leave
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you could throw free beer,girls and a 60 inch screen to go with a comfy chair and you still won't get anyone in there. :cheers:
Best way to discribe it....It's like visiting relatives, nice to visit, better to leave
Hmmmm some people just don't get the concept of constructive criticism; some of us value the WW1 arena (for all it's faults) and while trying hard to improve it, we're not inclined to dump on it. So please be specific, so we can add your ideas like grist to the mill.
Constructive criticism btw is the opposite of (for example) me saying that in response to your post I presume that you don't like beer, girls, multimedia entertainment or even your own family. Clearly that was not your intent (to convey those dislikes) but hopefully I have made the point.
Constructive criticism.... it's how grown-ups make things better.
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I sure as hell value it. And I look forward to it's continued improvement :)
I want to thank HTC for doing what they always do: Constantly Expand and Improve their product. There is so much that they could do to the entire genre. They will have this business as long as they wish it (which I hope is for a long long time).
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Good tests Perv but I think there are other structural issues beyond overspeed; add some G to the equation at even moderate dive speeds and the Camel and F2b fall apart (not sure about the D7) yet the F2b had a reputation as a sturdy a/c and fast in the dive. The Dr1 seems to hold together better under high G loads in dives.
I wasn't able to see the E6B properly in the other tests regards G but the DR1 holds the illusion of being able to hold together in these G manevours because it bleeds E a lot more quickly when preforming them than the rest of the planeset and therefore isn't able to reach a G load were it would fail.
In a DR1 in a descending barrel roll its virtually impossible to gather enough speed to rip a wing off. The d7 suffers the same as the camel and f2b in the high speed barrel roll.
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Dont forget to turn the engine governor off! Also, the DR1 historically had a nasty tendency for the top wing to shed away in high speed pursuit dives due to a higher lift generated by the full length top wing against the lessor lift generated by the four half sectional wings. Point is the DR1 should be more susceptible to catastrophic structural wing damage than the other three.
Even if it actually slowed down in a dive (I doubt this), it apparently didn't stop that top wing from wanting to fly free from the rest.
Lets keep it real: the DR1 is by far and away the best of the four other rides in there. It is the easiest for me to be successful in. I suspect that's why 98% of the most successful cartoon drivers in WW1 drive the DR1 almost exclusively. It is three things the other planes are not. DR1 is by far the most maneuverable, by far the most survivable and by far the most successful.
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Dont forget to turn the engine governor off! Also, the DR1 historically had a nasty tendency for the top wing to shed away in high speed pursuit dives due to a higher lift generated by the full length top wing against the lessor lift generated by the four half sectional wings. Point is the DR1 should be more susceptible to catastrophic structural wing damage than the other three.
Even if it actually slowed down in a dive (I doubt this), it apparently didn't stop that top wing from wanting to fly free from the rest.
Lets keep it real: the DR1 is by far and away the best of the four other rides in there. It is the easiest for me to be successful in. I suspect that's why 98% of the most successful cartoon drivers in WW1 drive the DR1 almost exclusively. It is three things the other planes are not. DR1 is by far the most maneuverable, by far the most survivable and by far the most successful.
It was off but it wasn't a test to see if I could blow up the engine :P so there was throttling back etc soon as I heard it overspeeding. :salute
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Bump ! Good Post...
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i love flying WWI. but it needs more. it lets me have fun for a good 30-60 minutes if my squad isnt online just like AvA does.
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i love flying WWI. but it needs more. it lets me have fun for a good 30-60 minutes if my squad isnt online just like AvA does.
You want MORE than 60 minutes of fun each day? :O
My wife simply won't allow it in our house.