Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: lulu on October 10, 2010, 01:38:11 PM
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Anyone use flaps to develop compression and turning quickly?
:salute
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Lulu compression occurs at speeds that are too high to use flaps. Perhaps you mean something else.
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Anyone use flaps to develop compression and turning quickly?
:salute
If you pop flaps before going in to a dive, they will raise before you get compressed. If you need to make tighter turns in a fight, pop flaps. Google.com/translate is a marvelous thing.
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If you pop flaps before going in to a dive, they will raise before you get compressed. If you need to make tighter turns in a fight, pop flaps. Google.com/translate is a marvelous thing.
Flaps let you turn slower but that doesn't always mean tighter and the OP was asking about quicker turns, presumably he meant a higher rate of turn rather than a smaller radius.
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Anyone use flaps to develop compression and turning quickly?
:salute
The P-38L has dive flaps that will help you pull out of a high speed dive by pitching the nose up but it has it's limitations and isn't a golden ticket out of compressability.
As for using flaps to help you turn, yes, flaps can be used for this depending on the plane. For example the P-38 can use it's flaps to help in maneuvering with better turning planes and the P-38L can even use the dive flaps at high speeds to help in maneuvering.
ack-ack
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It seems to mee that when I put down flaps and I mantain my flying path, then I get some kind of compression.
I tought that this could have some role in ACM.
:salute
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I think you might be confused about how we use the word "compression". I believe the term refers to when you are flying so fast that the pressure on the structure is too great for the control surfaces to react against...in-game it means when you're flying fast and discover you can't control the plane. Your controls "lock up" and it's almost impossible to change direction.
When you deploy flaps you extend the rear edges of your wings and tilt them downwards. (Extend them while you're on the ground and look out your side window and you'll see what I mean.) This gives your plane more lift, allowing you to stay in the air at slower speeds without fear of stalling, and it also allows your plane to turn tighter than it normally would. The downside is that you also create more drag, which may cause your plane to slow down.
With flaps out your stall warning will go on a lot sooner if you pull back on the stick, or if you try to maneuver, or in level flight if you are slowing down too quickly. What you're experiencing is not compression, it's called 'buffeting' I think. That's when your plane starts to shake as you approach stall speed.
I suggest you read the section on flight dynamics in the trainers website. It will explain the physics involved when you fly, and why things like stalls, spins and compression happen.
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It seems to mee that when I put down flaps and I mantain my flying path, then I get some kind of compression.
I tought that this could have some role in ACM.
:salute
Putting your flaps down in level flight is similar to pulling the nose up in level flight. One of the effects of flaps is changing the effective incidence of the flapped portion of the wing. It's like part of the wing is rotated enough to change the angle of attack. Pilots usually trim the nose down to maintain level flight while adding flaps.
Because flaps increase drag it's not usually a better option than simply pulling the nose up so it wouldn't help with ACM. I hope this answers your question.
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"Pilots usually trim the nose down to maintain level flight while adding flaps."
Does this clear flaps effects? Or is it a common flaps usage?
:salute
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"Pilots usually trim the nose down to maintain level flight while adding flaps."
Does this clear flaps effects? Or is it a common flaps usage?
:salute
it does neither, and where are you quoting it from......
it does not clear the flaps ability to aid in adding lift when being slower
it is not common flaps usage.......
you should trim to maintain level flight at what ever speed you are flying, regardless if you need flaps or not.......this being said mainly for your civil / commercial type flight training......
do not forget that this is a WWII combat fighting simulation / MMOG game ....... not the real world.... even though some real world stuff does relate to it
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"Pilots usually trim the nose down to maintain level flight while adding flaps."
Does this clear flaps effects? Or is it a common flaps usage?
:salute
Flaps would still have the effect of increasing drag and lowering your stall speed which, as an example, is useful for landing. To clear flap effects you would just put the flaps back up.
Flaps can help you turn because they lower the stall speed and let you fly at a higher angle of attack which increases lift.
Any discussion of flaps is complicated by the variety of flaps found on different airplanes. On some real airplanes adding flaps pitches the nose down instead of up but in AH it's always up.
I think what you noticed, and what caused your original question, is that extending flaps changes the speed you're trimmed for. You extend flaps and the nose wants to go up and you have to push the stick forward or trim the nose down to maintain level flight.
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It seems to mee that when I put down flaps and I mantain my flying path, then I get some kind of compression.
I tought that this could have some role in ACM.
:salute
could you explain to us what you mean? could you describe what happens when you put your flaps out, that you're asking about?
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Please learn to use the translator found at sites such as google.com/translate. It would make this discussion so much easier.
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Please learn to use the translator found at sites such as google.com/translate. It would make this discussion so much easier.
BrownBaron, thanks for refreshing our memory.. I had forgotten that lulu's native language is not english....
is "google.com/translate" the best translator site out there? that is free to the masses for translating languages?
am asking for myself and all others.... I never have used google's translator
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Please learn to use the translator found at sites such as google.com/translate. It would make this discussion so much easier.
Sadly, being in the process of learning another language, I have discovered that these translational tools struggle because of different languages having drastically different verb-subject-object orderings as well as the use of different articles and filler words used to signify dative/nominative/accusative cases. Esp, when the ordering is key in determining if the the sentence is a question or a statement or when a word or a word ordering do not have a one-to-one translation with english.
lulu, what is your native language, maybe you could post in that language and someone else with greater mastery of both languages could help translate the question.
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Good points Ardy123. I believe Lulu is Japanese from prior conversations a few years ago but that may have been a different Lulu. I asked if he was the same one and I think he said he was but I'm not positive we were understanding each other. I think his current use of "compression" is likely caused by a translation tool rather than the lack of one.
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i'm not trying to be a wise arse here.....but if you did a search on flap usage in the p-38, you will find a ton of useful information......there was a 20 page thread on it not too long ago......
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Cap we could answer most help questions by saying "search for it" but it's not good policy and it's really more helpful to post a link to the thread that answers the specific question being asked.
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try this link. it starts off talking about the dive recovery flaps, but i think it goes into the combat flaps too.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,27432.0.html
there are others, but i'm at work, and being a bad bad boy posting in here when i should be doing estimates for customers. :devil
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I think LuLu is confussing compression and buffeting,while your unlikely to experence compression at speed that you can deploy flaps you can certainly experence buffeting and the effects of buffeting ingame are similar to the ingame effects of compression.
You wont get the lockup of control surfaces that happens with comprssion but you can get the shuddering of the buffet effect,which is similar but not the same. This may be causing the confussion and misuse of terms.
Maybe Badboy can jump in with his excellent graph that shows the diminissing return that you get from flap usage.
In his graph it shows that if you deploy more than 2 notches of flaps the drag overcomes the lift and this has a drastic affect on the turn rate.
I hope this helps.
:salute
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I think LuLu is confussing compression and buffeting,while your unlikely to experence compression at speed that you can deploy flaps you can certainly experence buffeting and the effects of buffeting ingame are similar to the ingame effects of compression.
You wont get the lockup of control surfaces that happens with comprssion but you can get the shuddering of the buffet effect,which is similar but not the same. This may be causing the confussion and misuse of terms.
Maybe Badboy can jump in with his excellent graph that shows the diminissing return that you get from flap usage.
In his graph it shows that if you deploy more than 2 notches of flaps the drag overcomes the lift and this has a drastic affect on the turn rate.
I hope this helps.
:salute
if he's getting buffeting when he's turning, then that is warning of the onset of a stall. actually, it is the very beginning of said stall. which reminds me....i need to turn down my stall buzzer.....ride the dam thing so much, it stops me from hearing my allisons.........
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When you use flaps and you mantain your speed too, you get an extra-lift that is difficult to handle pushing nose down.
I called 'compression' this extra-pressure and I tought that it might have been (<-- oh my God!) helpful in some ACM but I have some doubts.
TY
:salute
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I thought that was what you meant. I hope you understood my explanation. :D
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I'm a little sad sometimes. :rofl
I used the word 'compression' also if I knew that it was not
correct (or, say better, totally wrong) but I did not want to spent too much
time on boring vocabolary and I hoped on your ability to catch the true meaning.
ANYONE USE FLAPS IN THIS WAY OR NOT? :bolt:
:salute
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Many people use flaps to help with ACM. Flaps don't always help. You have to use them at the right time. I can try to help you with that in the training arena.
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I'm a little sad sometimes. :rofl
I used the word 'compression' also if I knew that it was not
correct (or, say better, totally wrong) but I did not want to spent too much
time on boring vocabolary and I hoped on your ability to catch the true meaning.
ANYONE USE FLAPS IN THIS WAY OR NOT? :bolt:
:salute
flying the p-38, i use flaps almost constantly during a fight. you need to be careful with them though, as they can get you in trouble, just as fast as they can get you out of trouble.
at 250, i can drop 1 notch, which will force my nose up. now, remember up doesn't always mean "up". up means "up" to the airplanes perspective. so if you're banked 90 degrees to the right, "up" to the airplane is sideways.
this can help with the initial turn, as it helps bring your nose to bear quicker.
when i'm in a turn fight, i use the flaps to help limit my speed coming down from a loop, if i'm trying to line up a con. i use them going up, to help me hang on the props, as i rope the con.
the first two notches produce more lift than drag. once you hit that third notch, now you're producing more drag than lift. they're still helpful though, as with the right combinations of power, control inputs, and flap usage, you can really move that airplane around.
not all airplanes have more than a single flap setting. hurricanes, and spitfires are either all the way down, or all the way up. zeros are incremental.
hope some of this helps?
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Yes.
TY