Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Slade on October 15, 2010, 08:16:33 AM
-
Hello all,
I don't tend to fly one plane. Either I look at the map and see what would be affective at the moment or fly a plane because I want to learn it better.
That being said, what plane would you least want to see on YOUR six and why?
Thanks for your feedback,
Slade :salute
-
My squadies scare me more then the enemy.
-
Ki84 or a zero
-
A Corsair, because they're almost impossible to force an overshoot against.
-
I don't mind it when they hang out on my six. :D
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7112/goodbye.jpg)
-
any plane flown by Bruv or Kaz or Drbone :old:
-
F-16-22 :O
-
Ki84 or a zero
:t so basically me? :t
-
I fear no plane.
There are however, a few people I tend to avoid :)
-
The exact same plane I am flying. The potential is there for them to follow every maneuver that you make.
-
Just because.... the unperked, overmodeled, too high eny Brewster of course. Specifically if the guy who contributed data for the development is around.
-
Any turny bird! Especially when im in an FM2 (turny bird)!
-
any plane flown by Bruv or Kaz or Drbone :old:
Haha zack :rofl
-
would have to say over shooting an IL2 is the worst to have on your six
-
Basically any plane that has 20MM or 30MM. I get little nervous too when something with more than 6 50s (Jug, A20, B25) is on my tail :eek:
-
anything with forward firing guns :O
-
KI-61 Its the best plane in the game :neener:
-
brewster
-
TBMs... just ask Batfinkv :D :D
-
would have to say over shooting an IL2 is the worst to have on your six
I have a feeling that you've met ghi.
For me,
under D400- Brewster
D600 or more- Zeke
-
Zeke with lots of E.
-
Spit16
-
Spit16
-
Not so much the plane but the pilot, when you see a particular aircraft saddle up on you and you know "chit thats greebo" or "chit thats ackack" and the yak would have to be a dark horse aswell.
-
Fw-190A8. Hate those cannons.
-
109K-4 with the same amount of E as me
-
I do not care what plane gets on my 6....for I fight the guy controling the plane...now when you see particular plane and if you know a particular stick is in the area who excels at that plane......he is the one I am going for. like anything in life to get better ya gotta face off with someone better then you....those are the peeps you should be going after.
-
Brewster...if it's 400-600 out you're already dead.
-
I would rather have anyone on my 6 then 999000 on my 12.
-
the icon La7
-200
-
B5N2 :uhoh
-
Spit 16
I mainly fly the P-51B, and this plane is seriously the most difficult for me to shake of any plane in the game. It keeps up for long enough, turns sharp enough, rolls fast enough, and stops quick enough to counter most things I can get my poor Pony to do at low alt. Plus the fact that it has 20mm's means it really doesn't have to pull lead for long to knock you out. High altitude seems to be a bit of a different story, but that doesn't happen often.
-
F-16-22 :O
???
-
Spits are hard to shake when flown well.
-
The exact same plane I am flying. The potential is there for them to follow every maneuver that you make.
If they have the same load as you.
-
Zekes or a brewster. Except when I'm in the same thing, then I can call a pretty even playing field.
-
you noobs still havent figured out yet that the "plane" on your 6 dont matter...:-) someone said they fly a 51-b and they worry about a spit-16...every fighter in the damn hanger can easily kill any plane if they are on the 6 of said plane, the idea is to not let any plane on your 6, and there are many, many, sticks that dont need to get on your 6 to kill you, my first 4 years I was all about saddling someone to get the kill, Grizz was pivitle in showing me that its all about angles, saddling someone, takes too long and allows other nme to pick ya while you are trying to saddle someone, if you learn the angles, the guy you are trying to kill will be dead long before you fully saddle him, which allows you to be ready for the next in line that much quicker. so I resay dont worry about the "plane" worry about "who" now obviously you need full working knowledge of all the planes capabilities.
-
you noobs still havent figured out yet that the "plane" on your 6 dont matter...:-) someone said they fly a 51-b and they worry about a spit-16...every fighter in the damn hanger can easily kill any plane if they are on the 6 of said plane, the idea is to not let any plane on your 6, and there are many, many, sticks that dont need to get on your 6 to kill you, my first 4 years I was all about saddling someone to get the kill, Grizz was pivitle in showing me that its all about angles, saddling someone, takes too long and allows other nme to pick ya while you are trying to saddle someone, if you learn the angles, the guy you are trying to kill will be dead long before you fully saddle him, which allows you to be ready for the next in line that much quicker. so I resay dont worry about the "plane" worry about "who" now obviously you need full working knowledge of all the planes capabilities.
Of course, but when you can't help it, or you fail to work the odds in your favor and the enemy gets on your six (happens quite often for me, come to think of it) then which one is an almost sure way to the Map-room?
-
F4U-4 with a skilled pilot in the seat. There isn't anything it can't do at least somewhat effectively.
-
Goon or the new Mossy.
-
Of course, but when you can't help it, or you fail to work the odds in your favor and the enemy gets on your six (happens quite often for me, come to think of it) then which one is an almost sure way to the Map-room?
all of them.....if the stick knows his ACM....you are dead, does not matter what plane he is in. :D
-
QFT
The exact same plane I am flying. The potential is there for them to follow every maneuver that you make.
-
you noobs still havent figured out yet that the "plane" on your 6 dont matter...:-) someone said they fly a 51-b and they worry about a spit-16...every fighter in the damn hanger can easily kill any plane if they are on the 6 of said plane, the idea is to not let any plane on your 6, and there are many, many, sticks that dont need to get on your 6 to kill you, my first 4 years I was all about saddling someone to get the kill, Grizz was pivitle in showing me that its all about angles, saddling someone, takes too long and allows other nme to pick ya while you are trying to saddle someone, if you learn the angles, the guy you are trying to kill will be dead long before you fully saddle him, which allows you to be ready for the next in line that much quicker. so I resay dont worry about the "plane" worry about "who" now obviously you need full working knowledge of all the planes capabilities.
thanks for the obvious but that wasn't the question
-
thanks for the obvious but that wasn't the question
:rofl
you reply to the question the way you want....I will reply to the question the way I want....It's pointless to worry about what plane is on your 6....if they are on your 6 you are dead, unless of course there aim is like mine :(
my point is to show new guys the plane is not what you have to "worry" about....and that's not so "obvious" :rolleyes:
-
With my rides of choice i can out-run most of the TnB crowd. I worry most about anything that has the potential to catch me, like an La7, or anything that can nail me at 400-600. K4's are only an issue if there's a hot stick flying them, which is most of the time, but most of the time I can keep the tater from hitting me long enough to find help.
-
Hello all,
I don't tend to fly one plane. Either I look at the map and see what would be affective at the moment or fly a plane because I want to learn it better.
That being said, what plane would you least want to see on YOUR six and why?
Thanks for your feedback,
Slade :salute
Where on my 6? D200, any plane. D1000 they are either dead or they will be running.
-
:rofl
you reply to the question the way you want....I will reply to the question the way I want....It's pointless to worry about what plane is on your 6....if they are on your 6 you are dead, unless of course there aim is like mine :(
my point is to show new guys the plane is not what you have to "worry" about....and that's not so "obvious" :rolleyes:
I completely disagree with this. So your telling me that when a plane gets on your six you give up and just let him shoot you down because "you're dead anyway?"
A plane on your six will not be able to kill you until he has a gun solution, and there are things you can do to keep him from getting one.
I know I don't have to tell you, there are infinite different situations that a plane gets on your six, many of them are reversible. My statement about the Spixteen was due to my experience with them, and my inability to shake them and reverse.
Some of the best fights I've ever won have started with that con on my six.
-
heck no I never give up, and have givin many an nme my 6 just so they will fight, and have killed many, many cons who got my 6, my whole point is if the con on your 6 is good, it does not matter what plane they are in, the plane is not what to worry about, the planes are just tools that are controled by a "stick" they are what you need to worry about, hell I dont even like using "worry" because its a game and the only way to get better is by fighting the guys that are better. but thats all good you keep worring about the planes.....lol
-
heck no I never give up, and have givin many an nme my 6 just so they will fight, and have killed many, many cons who got my 6, my whole point is if the con on your 6 is good, it does not matter what plane they are in, the plane is not what to worry about, the planes are just tools that are controled by a "stick" they are what you need to worry about, hell I dont even like using "worry" because its a game and the only way to get better is by fighting the guys that are better. but thats all good you keep worring about the planes.....lol
:::Sigh:::
Planes absolutely do make a difference.
I've reversed and shot down people I absolutely would not have shot down had they not been flying an aircraft 20 ENY worse.
-
That being said, what plane would you least want to see on YOUR six and why?
Any plane with forward firing guns.
ack-ack
-
which is most of the time, but most of the time I can keep the tater from hitting me long enough to find help.
Instead of trying to live long enough to find help, why not try fighting the other guy?
Think it was last week when I ran into you a few of times on the Baltic map and managed to get into a 1v1 fight a couple of times with you in a P-38L. One thing I noticed is when I reversed on you both times and saddled up on your six, you basically ceased to fly. It was like you put your plane on auto-pilot both times, like you were resigned to your fate of being shot down and did not at any time try any evasives or counters to reverse the roles.
This is something I see quite a bit within the last few years. It seems that most now are more interested in looking for that "one magic move" instead of learning the fundementals of both BFM and ACM. That's why you see a lot of these new Sierra Hotel Experten players that people look up to because they've got the vertical roll reversal down but us older, more experienced players don't see what the big deal is because when we get these "experten" in a 1v1 fight, since they only know one move they are soon fodder for us that have expanded our knowledge to just beyond one mere 'trick'.
Take this for what it's worth...before learning to be the greatest in any one plane take time to learn BFM and ACM and then it doesn't matter which plane you fly after that. This is just something that I've picked up over the last 17 years playing these games, like I said take it for what it's worth.
ack-ack
-
ack-ack I see completly understands.
-
ack-ack I see completly understands.
All else equal, it makes a difference, just like everything in life.
-
All else equal, it makes a difference, just like everything in life.
sorry but if the stick on your 6 is good, don't matter what he is flying, if he is in a plane that he knows it's even worse for you, you can be in a LA and have a zero get on your 6, if the zero stick is worth his salt you are going to the tower, would it matter if he was in an LA...hurri....P-40?
I have not been flying in sims for 17 years, but I have been here since tour 52, pretty much only fly fighters, and in the last 3-4 years that's all i've flown, I have never ran for help cuz someone was on my 6, I fight to the death win or lose, anyone who fought against me in game knows I am a fighter, I fight the biggest red dar I can find....I was a natural at dogfighting, I was called a cheater my first week flying in AH, I was getting kills my first day....since tour 52, I have gotten around 17,000+ kills(closer to 18 but cant remember off hand) and around 13,000 deaths, 95% of my kills are when I am out numbered.
trust me, the plane has maybe 10% to do with it, the stick has 70% and initial position makes up the next 20%
learn ACM from the guys that kill you even though, you were just on their 6....learn to kill those guys, and then you will see that the damn plane don't matter.
last post on subject it's like hitting my head against a wall :rolleyes:
-
last post on subject it's like hitting my head against a wall :rolleyes:
this coming from a guy who use to have headbutt wars with a steel industrial refrigerator!!!!!! and in my humble opinion......he won!
-
Ar 234 I don't want ever in my six!! :rofl
-
saying that it does not matter what plane the guy on your six is in, is kind of silly. It makes all the difference in the world. You cannot respond the same way vs all the planes. My reaction will be different vs a zero, a Ki84, a 190, a p40 or a hurri.
Every plane has a weakness and and a strength. You have to exploit the first and try to minimize the second. So, yeah, what plane is on your six makes a huge difference no matter who the pilot is. You have no clue who the pilot is, but you know what plane it is. Start from there.
-
but you know what plane it is. Start from there.
You're absolutely right, it's important to know the other plane's capabilities as well as knowing your own. However, that knowledge is useless without the basics and that's knowing BFM and ACM. Without knowing those two basic things it isn't going to matter what you do or what plane or who is on your six and learning the latest "trick du jour" isn't going to change that fact.
TalonXVX challenged me to the DA the other night and it became really clear after the merge that this was a person that had virtually no concept of BFM and absolutely no clue as to what ACM was. All that it took to beat this guy was a simple Immelman Turn on the merge that put me on his six, this is a basic flight maneuver not even ACM. I tried to explain it to him and what both BFM and ACM were and how to use them. All he focused on was this "miracle move" I was pulling on the merge and that's all he wanted to learn, he didn't want to learn anything else so I left. Saw him last night in the MA talking about mastering the "P-38 Himmelman" merge.
ack-ack
-
You're absolutely right, it's important to know the other plane's capabilities as well as knowing your own. However, that knowledge is useless without the basics and that's knowing BFM and ACM. Without knowing those two basic things it isn't going to matter what you do or what plane or who is on your six and learning the latest "trick du jour" isn't going to change that fact.
TalonXVX challenged me to the DA the other night and it became really clear after the merge that this was a person that had virtually no concept of BFM and absolutely no clue as to what ACM was. All that it took to beat this guy was a simple Immelman Turn on the merge that put me on his six, this is a basic flight maneuver not even ACM. I tried to explain it to him and what both BFM and ACM were and how to use them. All he focused on was this "miracle move" I was pulling on the merge and that's all he wanted to learn, he didn't want to learn anything else so I left. Saw him last night in the MA talking about mastering the "P-38 Himmelman" merge.
ack-ack
Also true
-
being said, what plane would you least want to see on YOUR six and why?
Don't really have a plane I like the least on my six. When I see someone on my six, I like to throw off all the useless P38 parts at him so I can get to the tower and reup quickly! :P
-
You're absolutely right, it's important to know the other plane's capabilities as well as knowing your own. However, that knowledge is useless without the basics and that's knowing BFM and ACM. Without knowing those two basic things it isn't going to matter what you do or what plane or who is on your six and learning the latest "trick du jour" isn't going to change that fact.
TalonXVX challenged me to the DA the other night and it became really clear after the merge that this was a person that had virtually no concept of BFM and absolutely no clue as to what ACM was. All that it took to beat this guy was a simple Immelman Turn on the merge that put me on his six, this is a basic flight maneuver not even ACM. I tried to explain it to him and what both BFM and ACM were and how to use them. All he focused on was this "miracle move" I was pulling on the merge and that's all he wanted to learn, he didn't want to learn anything else so I left. Saw him last night in the MA talking about mastering the "P-38 Himmelman" merge.
ack-ack
Shhh don't reveal the secrets of the P-38 Himmelman!
-
saying that it does not matter what plane the guy on your six is in, is kind of silly. It makes all the difference in the world. You cannot respond the same way vs all the planes. My reaction will be different vs a zero, a Ki84, a 190, a p40 or a hurri.
Every plane has a weakness and and a strength. You have to exploit the first and try to minimize the second. So, yeah, what plane is on your six makes a huge difference no matter who the pilot is. You have no clue who the pilot is, but you know what plane it is. Start from there.
you in your statement without knowing it completely confirms what I am saying :aok
you state that depending on the plane, will depend on the reaction YOU will take.....the plane YOU are controlling can not "react" on its own. YOU know and understand the weaknesses and strengths of any plane that may happen to get onto YOUR 6,
I will bet that if you really think about it,it is the E situation and the position of the nme that will more than likely determine what YOU do and how YOU react, The plane type itself will be less important as to it's position on you, obviously if you are in a 51 going 500 miles mph and a zero tries to climb to ya and set up a passing shot YOU know it wont be able to climb with ya, Again I say YOU know it cant climb with ya...Yes knowing your nme ride is crucial, and understanding ACM is crucial, having good SA, all these things YOU the stick achieve not the plane.
I don't know, it seems so simple to me I could care less what someone is in, I know what every fighter in the hanger can and cannot do, I also know that there are sticks that can do stuff in planes that are not supposed to be possible, or their reaction time is just that much quicker, or they are smooth in there maneuvers, or they can put rounds into an exact spot every time, this is why I say the plane is far less important compared to who is controlling it.
this coming from a guy who use to have headbutt wars with a steel industrial refrigerator!!!!!! and in my humble opinion......he won!
hehe that fridge pissed me off i tell ya :huh
-
you in your statement without knowing it completely confirms what I am saying :aok
you state that depending on the plane, will depend on the reaction YOU will take.....the plane YOU are controlling can not "react" on its own. YOU know and understand the weaknesses and strengths of any plane that may happen to get onto YOUR 6,
I will bet that if you really think about it,it is the E situation and the position of the nme that will more than likely determine what YOU do and how YOU react, The plane type itself will be less important as to it's position on you, obviously if you are in a 51 going 500 miles mph and a zero tries to climb to ya and set up a passing shot YOU know it wont be able to climb with ya, Again I say YOU know it cant climb with ya...Yes knowing your nme ride is crucial, and understanding ACM is crucial, having good SA, all these things YOU the stick achieve not the plane.
I don't know, it seems so simple to me I could care less what someone is in, I know what every fighter in the hanger can and cannot do, I also know that there are sticks that can do stuff in planes that are not supposed to be possible, or their reaction time is just that much quicker, or they are smooth in there maneuvers, or they can put rounds into an exact spot every time, this is why I say the plane is far less important compared to who is controlling it.
hehe that fridge pissed me off i tell ya :huh
It depends on what you mean by "I don't care". If you mean you are not afraid we agree. If you are saying that it makes no difference on your reaction, we disagree. Everything you typed above depends on knowing what plane is on your six. Sure it comes down to E states and position but you will react to that based on what plane it is and even what guns it has. I wont respond the same way vs a 4 cannon bird and vs a 6 50 cal bird. If its a zero behind me, I will try to get him as fast as possible before starting to turn with him. If it is a 51 or 190 (and for some reason they did not run) I will try to get them as slow as possible. All this, with out having a clue about who the pilot is.
-
It depends on what you mean by "I don't care". If you mean you are not afraid we agree. If you are saying that it makes no difference on your reaction, we disagree. Everything you typed above depends on knowing what plane is on your six. Sure it comes down to E states and position but you will react to that based on what plane it is and even what guns it has. I wont respond the same way vs a 4 cannon bird and vs a 6 50 cal bird. If its a zero behind me, I will try to get him as fast as possible before starting to turn with him. If it is a 51 or 190 (and for some reason they did not run) I will try to get them as slow as possible. All this, with out having a clue about who the pilot is.
yes when I say "I don't care" I mean I am not "worried" about any plane, and yes my reaction will vary depending on situation and plane....but this is my whole point "we" react one way or another the plane itself does nothing on it's own...so the stick controlling said plane is who you are fighting not the plane.
perfect example, I rarely fly the BnZ queens, one sortie I was out in a 152, flying on the deck I encounter a zero, I love to push every plane I am in so of course I TnB with this Zero, in two turns I made him explode.....I knew he was a noob as the merge was happening, so I ask you was it my "plane" that allowed me to kill him or me? or the fact that he had no clue as to proper BFM-ACM?
one more question, How long does it take you to know someone is a noob or not, in a dogfight?
it all comes down to the person controlling said plane, the plane is secondary.
one last point, you are flying along in your ride of choice, and you know..say Grizz is out in a K4...you see two K4's in front of you, you know one of those K4's is Grizz, who would you want to engage?
me personally I want to fight the best of the best...so I hope and pray that Grizz is in the K4 I engage, I don't care what that guy fly's he is gonna put up a fight if not kill ya, no matter what you or he is in.
-
yes when I say "I don't care" I mean I am not "worried" about any plane, and yes my reaction will vary depending on situation and plane....but this is my whole point "we" react one way or another the plane itself does nothing on it's own...so the stick controlling said plane is who you are fighting not the plane.
perfect example, I rarely fly the BnZ queens, one sortie I was out in a 152, flying on the deck I encounter a zero, I love to push every plane I am in so of course I TnB with this Zero, in two turns I made him explode.....I knew he was a noob as the merge was happening, so I ask you was it my "plane" that allowed me to kill him or me? or the fact that he had no clue as to proper BFM-ACM?
I think we are confusing subjects here. The question was " do you care what plane he is in", not did my plane or I killed him. So, as you answered above, you do care what plane he is since that will dictate your tactics.
To answer your question, in this case it was not your plane that killed him and I would say it was not you either. The guy was just clueless and killed him self. If he had equal skills with you, his "plane" would have won.
one more question, How long does it take you to know someone is a noob or not, in a dogfight?
Not long at all, but if he is not a noob and he is on my six, I better be able to take advantage of his planes short comings fast or I will be in the tower
it all comes down to the person controlling said plane, the plane is secondary.
Agreed, but at the moment of contact I have no idea who the guy is. I have to assume he is good and my reaction will be based on what plane he in. At that exact moment, that is my only and most important clue. Once we have noob icons the plane will not be as important at that moment. Once the engagement begins all that goes away and it is you vs him, but that was not the original question.
one last point, you are flying along in your ride of choice, and you know..say Grizz is out in a K4...you see two K4's in front of you, you know one of those K4's is Grizz, who would you want to engage?
me personally I want to fight the best of the best...so I hope and pray that Grizz is in the K4 I engage, I don't care what that guy fly's he is gonna put up a fight if not kill ya, no matter what you or he is in.
Well, yeah, but how do I know who is in that K4? Maybe I want the easy guy first so I can have a 1 vs 1 with Grizz without having to worry about being picked. All I know is that I see 2 K4s and I will adjust my tactics based on that fact, Grizz or no Grizz. Always assume they are not nubes and if it turns out that they are even better.
-
:furious :cry :furious
you are so stubborn :D
I think I am seeing your point...but I also think we are both right..
....cuz I am stubborn myself :furious :joystick:
all this damn talk makes me want to go kill some lemmings.... :furious
:salute
-
all things being equal is the answer in itself, all things are equal.
if you fear the plane but its ridden by a lousy pilot then mentally you have defeated yourself,
if you fear the pilot but he is ridding in an outclassed plane then mentally you defeat yourself,
if you fear any plane no matter the make, that is booming in then mentally you have defeated yourself,
if you fear any plane that begins to turn, no matter the make, like he is twisting pretzels by hand then mentally you have defeated yourself,
all things are equal.
a competant pilot, in a compatable plane, under the enviormental conditions that the plane was created for, and within that pilots comfort zone, that is the aircraft i most fear on my six. but each part of that fight, starting with who has advantage to what kind of plane to does he fly like he is skilled all reveal themselves in steps as the fight progresses from the first sighting to the final dying. the mystery is the thrill of 99.99% of the fighting in the MA's. its the unraveling of the mystery in each step in its turn that gets the adrenaline truly pumping.
-
:furious :cry :furious
you are so stubborn :D
I think I am seeing your point...but I also think we are both right..
....cuz I am stubborn myself :furious :joystick:
all this damn talk makes me want to go kill some lemmings.... :furious
:salute
:rofl :salute
-
all things being equal is the answer in itself, all things are equal.
if you fear the plane but its ridden by a lousy pilot then mentally you have defeated yourself,
if you fear the pilot but he is ridding in an outclassed plane then mentally you defeat yourself,
if you fear any plane no matter the make, that is booming in then mentally you have defeated yourself,
if you fear any plane that begins to turn, no matter the make, like he is twisting pretzels by hand then mentally you have defeated yourself,
all things are equal.
a competant pilot, in a compatable plane, under the enviormental conditions that the plane was created for, and within that pilots comfort zone, that is the aircraft i most fear on my six. but each part of that fight, starting with who has advantage to what kind of plane to does he fly like he is skilled all reveal themselves in steps as the fight progresses from the first sighting to the final dying. the mystery is the thrill of 99.99% of the fighting in the MA's. its the unraveling of the mystery in each step in its turn that gets the adrenaline truly pumping.
Well said. :salute
-
Anything...that means I did something really stupid to let them get there and I deserve to have my cartoon pilet shot out of the virtual sky in a game.