Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on October 18, 2010, 08:15:12 PM
-
A step in the right direction for sure! It appears to be able to carry 2000lbs worth of ordnance (4/250kg; 1/800kg; or a torp); fly and climb at a decent speed, and pack a dang good defensive punch by having a 20mm cannon in the tail.
It will be nice not havig to rely only on the Ki67's for Japanese bombing missions.
-
ki-67 mixing up with A6ms and N1ks for missions is just wrong . thank god for the Mitsu-Bettys :cheers:
-
See Rules #4, #6
-
Now, all we need is an Ohka.
It ain't a-gonna happen.
-
Well, according to wiki it could carry 1x 800kg bomb, 4x 250kg bombs, and I would assume it has a 100kg and 50kg option like the Ki-67 has.
It will climb better than most other bombers because it was very light. However, being a bit stubby and being an early war plane it was underpowered (part of the effort for super long range was to reduce weight, another was to put range over speed) and would make 260mph give or take top speed.
The question I would have is "what was a historically common bomb load?" -- because I don't know what these really carried very often. For example, 1000 lb bombs on P-51s were extremely rare, almost never happened. What would be "normal" for the Betty?
Interestingly enough, the Japanese never really sought to increase bomb loads like the Allies did. You can see a similar trend in the Ju88s and their predecessors. They seemed content with the payload, just wanted better performance. The Betty was only about 15mph faster than the Nell that it replaced, carried [roughly] the same bomb load [as any other Japanese bomber], had the same rear defensive guns (20mm dorsal instead of tail), actually had a hair's less range than the Nell, but overall it replaced the Nell. Surely it wasn't because the Betty was more survivable (they left the armor off of both!), so it really begs the question "Why?"
P.S. The above also suggests the Betty can easily stand in for the Nell (*cough*UntilWeGetTheNell*cough*)
-
The question I would have is "what was a historically common bomb load?" -- because I don't know what these really carried very often. For example, 1000 lb bombs on P-51s were extremely rare, almost never happened. What would be "normal" for the Betty?
Not sure about bomb load, but G4Ms DID carry and use torpedoes, particularly during the Guadalcanal campaign, but also later in the war.
-
While designing the G4M, Mitsubishi repeatedly told the customer that they could not make an effective warplane with the requirements listed on two engines and requested permission to go to four engines, but the customer, the IJN, denied them at each step. Because of that Mitsubishi had to forgo all protection, even going so far as to make the wing skin part of the fuel tanks.
If Mitsubishi had been allowed to go to four engines it would have had the range, or more, armor and self sealing tanks and perhaps a heavier payload and defensive armament. The G4M1 already had an engine producing 30% more power than the B-17's engine.
Chock the entire debacle that the G4M was up to the IJN.
-
Very good point Karnak. Kind of like the Germans had Jets in early-mid 1944 but the doctrine/orders hamstrung their actual use and development. I guess that goes with all sides (US hamstringing the bombers by requiring them to be able to defend themselves, etc). I guess what I was pointing out was that the "orders" for the planes didn't change much, even if the need changed.
Saxman: The G3M Nell also carried torpedoes!
-
Chock the entire debacle that the G4M was up to the IJN.
Agreed. A lot of the Japanese high command's decisions and requirements for planes and other things were based on the belief that they wouldn't be fighting a prolonged general war. The Betty was a result of such mentality as were some other aircraft.
ack-ack
-
hold up, before I get excited the cannons used in G4Ms are just crappy oerlikon-type Type-99 cannons, right?
-
You probably don't fly the Bf109E much, right?
Don't knock it til you've killed 100 planes or so in it. It's a good gun.
Regardless, I don't know if that's the model on the Betty or not. I would imagine so, given the timeline.
-
hold up, before I get excited the cannons used in G4Ms are just crappy oerlikon-type Type-99 cannons, right?
Yup, type 99's. Some varriants had 2x20's in the dorsal, and other used all 20mm defensive guns(excluding the nose, although I don't find myself using that position too often in my sorties).
-
Now, all we need is an Ohka.
It ain't a-gonna happen.
You won't ever see a "kamakazie" like plane due to the respect of those men who used them
-
Quite so.
-
You won't ever see a "kamakazie" like plane due to the respect of those men who used them
That and it will be of absolutely no benefit to gameplay whatsoever. In fact, it would just be DETRIMENTAL because every dweeb that currently bails out of their Lancstukas will just ram them into the target instead.
-
It also depends what version of Betty we get. Type 22 Otsu is supposed to have Type 99-2 dorsal cannon which has a heavier punch than type 99-1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99_cannon
-C+
-
It will climb better than most other bombers because it was very light. However, being a bit stubby and being an early war plane it was underpowered (part of the effort for super long range was to reduce weight, another was to put range over speed) and would make 260mph give or take top speed.
Having a certain speed doesn't make an aircraft "underpowered" by itself. Betty has an excellent power to weight -ratio for a bomber and therefore also has an excellent climb rate for a bomber like you said. Betty-11 has a loaded weight of only 9500kg and has over 3000hp to move it.
-
Chock the entire debacle that the G4M was up to the IJN.
Agreed. A lot of the Japanese high command's decisions and requirements for planes and other things were based on the belief that they wouldn't be fighting a prolonged general war. The Betty was a result of such mentality as were some other aircraft.
ack-ack
Considering the G4M was a prewar design I'm not so sure it was such a foolish decision at the time, most major powers were designing bombers that were under gunned before the war since there was a few years there when bombers were routinely out performing and were faster than the fighters at the time. Long range would have been a vary desirable attribute in the pacific theater as well. Now it turns out that it was a very poor decision and the fact that they weren't able to make changes based on operational experience is a little shocking, but I don't think the initial decision and design was that far out of line with international thinking at the time.
-
the original betty
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs343.snc4/41416_1172137905_7618_n.jpg)
comes armed with 2 30lb bombs
-
the original betty
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs343.snc4/41416_1172137905_7618_n.jpg)
comes armed with 2 30lb bombs
she gots a perty voice, too. ;)
Though, I bet they are not quite 30 bomb bombs. Better that way, too. :aok
-
Finally, after years of waiting and wondering, AH players will soon have the opportunity to debate one of the greatest questions in flight sim history: Why the betties died.
-Sik
-
It's my understanding that Bettys tended to ignite pretty quickly. I suppose we can look forward to a lot of pyrotechnics from now on.
-
That is the G4M2 version 22....... We are getting the G4M1 version 11.
It also depends what version of Betty we get. Type 22 Otsu is supposed to have Type 99-2 dorsal cannon which has a heavier punch than type 99-1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G4M
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_99_cannon
-C+
-
I can call you Betty, and Betty when you call me you can call me Al.
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:JGF-32zm1FjjAM:http://static.funnyjunk.com/CommentPhoto/ad4cad07_b063_ca45.jpg&t=1)
ack-ack
-
It's my understanding that Bettys tended to ignite pretty quickly. I suppose we can look forward to a lot of pyrotechnics from now on.
This may or may not be due to the fact that the craft traded performance for armour and surviveability, going so far as to make the surface of the fuselage part of the skin of fuel tanks.
-
"We have a fireball"
-
oh, more Japanese matchsticks - gonna be fun!!
-
the original betty
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs343.snc4/41416_1172137905_7618_n.jpg)
comes armed with 2 30lb bombs
wow.....my pic shows up on a plane thread??? thats just crazy! lol
-
wow.....my pic shows up on a plane thread??? thats just crazy! lol
LOL theres a betty i would like to FLY!
-
the betty is the g4m2 right?
-
the betty is the g4m2 right?
G4M1-11
-
the original betty
(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs343.snc4/41416_1172137905_7618_n.jpg)
comes armed with 2 30lb bombs
nude pics pls
-
nude pics pls
UGGGGGGGG!! no way perv! lol
-
Good gods guys, get some class.
-
UGGGGGGGG!! no way perv! lol
:rofl
-
Good gods guys, get some class.
+1.
-
would betty flying a betty be considered girl on girl action?
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7294/bettyonbetty.png)
-
See Rule #2
-
See Rule #2
-
See Rule #2
-
do you have any pics???
Anticipate a PNG in the near future. :aok
-
Anticipate a PNG in the near future. :aok
And.....Done.
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7294/bettyonbetty.png)
Funny pic. Betty, you look good in that plane.
-
Hate to point this out but the G4M1-11 was an early model with 7.7mm peashooters. I think we'll have to stick with the Ki-67 if you want 20mm action....
-
Wrong. The Betty had a 20mm tail gun, even the early "model 11" types.
-
Wrong. The Betty had a 20mm tail gun, even the early "model 11" types.
Hehehehehehe
-
Wow, breaking out the #2s before page 4, well done gentlemen!
-
:x :banana: :joystick:
-
See Rule #2 :neener:
-
We got the "Betty", now all we need is He-111.
P.S. sorry about the off topic post, I most likley have opened the can about the He.
-
Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) Missile with a man in it.....
Talk about your perked bombloads, and it would take some finagling on HT's side, but it was certainly carried into combat by the Betty.
Somthing like 200 perks sounds about right, for the honor of dashing yourself againt the hull of an offending cruiser or carrier.
There would be a day or two full of people spending thier 1000's of un-used bomber perks, but then I think things would calm down to a low rumble. :aok
-
Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) Missile with a man in it.....
Talk about your perked bombloads, and it would take some finagling on HT's side, but it was certainly carried into combat by the Betty.
Somthing like 200 perks sounds about right, for the honor of dashing yourself againt the hull of an offending cruiser or carrier.
There would be a day or two full of people spending thier 1000's of un-used bomber perks, but then I think things would calm down to a low rumble. :aok
Don't make me get my baseball bat.
(http://bosoxinjection.com/files/2010/01/offerman-bat-attack-1.jpg)
-
Just fly the 163. It's a perked human missile too.
-
(http://swannysmodels.com/images/Betty/boxart.jpg)
-
Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) Missile with a man in it.....
Talk about your perked bombloads, and it would take some finagling on HT's side, but it was certainly carried into combat by the Betty.
Somthing like 200 perks sounds about right, for the honor of dashing yourself againt the hull of an offending cruiser or carrier.
There would be a day or two full of people spending thier 1000's of un-used bomber perks, but then I think things would calm down to a low rumble. :aok
Do some research...The G4M Model 11 was not capable of carrying the Ohka. If you had bothered to do some research you would have easily discovered that little fact before posting.
No, the G4M Model 11 cannot be a substitute for the G4M2e Model 24 Tei as there were too many changes from the G4M to the G4M2 airframes. Would be like asking to substitute a P-38J for a P-38F.
ack-ack
-
G4M2e Model 24 Tei
Special version for the transport of the ramming attack bomb plane Kugisho/Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka ("Baka") Model 11, conversions of G4M2a Models 24 Otsu and 24 Hei. Had armour protection for the pilots and fuselage fuel tanks.
-
"Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka (Cherry Blossom) Missile with a man in it.."
it will be a hard task landing kills in it :D
-
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:JGF-32zm1FjjAM:http://static.funnyjunk.com/CommentPhoto/ad4cad07_b063_ca45.jpg&t=1)
ack-ack
HAHA, Kentucky Fried Movie FTW!
-
HAHA, Kentucky Fried Movie FTW!
I'm you sure really meant to type Kung Pow and Kentucky Fried Movie was just a gross typo.
ack-ack
-
I'm you sure really meant to type Kung Pow and Kentucky Fried Movie was just a gross typo.
ack-ack
Mistake on my part. Both movies do have great parodies though.
This is what I was thinking of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mx8qVmLdLA&feature=related
-
My question is, "Where is the Betty?". I'm getting a bit :x. Me needs my fix already! :joystick:
-
"Where is the Betty?"
I cannot sleep Because of this question.. :noid
-
I cannot sleep Because of this question.. :noid
:lol
I can't wait!
-
I cannot sleep Because of this question.. :noid
:lol
I can't wait!
-
I cannot sleep Because of this question.. :noid
:lol
I can't wait!
-
Scuse me if this is answered elsewhere but has anyone seen anything remotely official as to when we get the Betty?
-
Scuse me if this is answered elsewhere but has anyone seen anything remotely official as to when we get the Betty?
2 weeks
In seriousness though, I bet they are going to release more than 1 plane with this next update so I'm guessing atleast another month or so
-
2 weeks
In seriousness though, I bet they are going to release more than 1 plane with this next update so I'm guessing atleast another month or so
Yeap... 2 weeks. The also have the He111, Pe-2, and D520 to model and add in as well. Give it 2 weeks and we'll have an update. ;)
-
I give it 1-2 months :( :furious :noid :salute
-
Its been 2 weeks like 4 times already. :noid :cry
I lost enough blood already. Do i have to donate more too HTC...?
-
Its been 2 weeks like 4 times already. :noid :cry
I lost enough blood already. Do i have to donate more too HTC...?
:rofl You will die before anything happens. Best to keep your blood in you. :rofl
Til then, Wolf3D will keep me occupied. :aok
-
(keepsing on track with most plane addings and such) 3-5 months
-
Mossie16 was added Atleast 15 days after announcement.
-
I heard that there was a problem with the Betty which has delayed deployment.
Everytime someone upped it when they were testing it, it changed to a Typhoon. Very weird. :lol
-
So would that make it a Ty-etty or a Bet-phoon?
-
Atleast I somewhat have an idea of why it's not released yet.
Hope they can fix it soon. :pray
-
Danny, your going to break your fingers with all the posts your making in anticipation of the betty. Calm down son. :D
-
Danny, your going to break your fingers with all the posts your making in anticipation of the betty. Calm down son. :D
I am now... To see he fact that I dream about HTC saying. Look what I have and YOU DON'T!!(laughs)
Is all over now.
Nah who am I kidding. :cry
-
Danny, your going to break your fingers with all the posts your making in anticipation of the betty. Calm down son. :D
Hey, at least it's an improvement. He was donating blood earlier.... :lol
Void, how is it, you are going to fly the Betty if ye fingers are all bent outta shape? :lol
-
Will be a dedicated driver. I could have no finger and still fly it like a pro, scraping scrub nuggets who apposes meh! :joystick:
-
Will be a dedicated driver. I could have no finger and still fly it like a pro, scraping scrub nuggets who apposes meh! :joystick:
:rofl
-
meh, i guess some guys would enjoy getting the betty. but as it is i never see the KI in the MA. Well i rarely see it. I see this as a waist of resources. Sorry just my opinion. I see Ju87s more than KIs. hell id rather see some 37mms added to the Stuka than a betty model released. :uhoh
-
meh, i guess some guys would enjoy getting the betty. but as it is i never see the KI in the MA. Well i rarely see it. I see this as a waist of resources. Sorry just my opinion. I see Ju87s more than KIs. hell id rather see some 37mms added to the Stuka than a betty model released. :uhoh
People of your persuasion will soon be out of things to ask for and then everything added will be a "waste of resources", not that you could think of anything else to use the resources on other than post WWII stuff.
I am also surprised you see more Ju87s than Ki-67s.
Late War Tour 130 Statistics for all planes/vehicles/boats:
Ki-67: 488 kills, 1788 deaths
Ju 87D-3: 322 kills, 796 deaths
-
sorry i dont agree with you. I can think of 5 planes off the top of my head id rather see than a betty all pre or during the war. But you know me so well and have analyzed my post and hit the nail on the head. Good job Dr. And yeah i rarely see Kis, sorry. Ill look harder.
-
sorry i dont agree with you. I can think of 5 planes off the top of my head id rather see than a betty all pre or during the war. But you know me so well and have analyzed my post and hit the nail on the head. Good job Dr. And yeah i rarely see Kis, sorry. Ill look harder.
Five is not very many, and I am skeptical you can come up with five that doesn't include at least one unit that is pretty much a hangar queen. Yes, the Ki-67, Ju-87 and G4M1 are hangar queens. The Beaufighter and Me410 will be hangar queens too. The much more potent Mosquito VI is a hangar queen.
-
yeah your probably right. Anyway Betty will be cool, ill probably fly it from time to time, i woulda rather just have seen something else is all.
-
There is nothing wrong with having level bombers that are climb quickly, are fast moving, have a long range, are heavily defended, but carry a light/medium bomb load.
It is kind of like a diamond: the size of the diamond is but 1 quality and actually the last quality the experts care about. Cut, clarity, and color are all far more important. Obviously, the overwhelming portion of the general population place a diamond's worth solely in the category of size, oh how narrow minded they are. ;)
-
flew the betty last night. You typically lose 1 bomber per pass of an enemy fighter. They light up with minimal hits to your plane. The tail gun is good, but when the enemy is in range, u are usually on fire. So unless you have local air superiority, you will burn to death in Cartoon fires.
-
lets put it this way...the zeke has more defensive armament, and that thing falls apart if u look at it wrong. Imagine the G4M1 :confused:
-
Betty was introduced for the Special Events and AvA crowd, in there, with a historical setting. The betty has much more of a lethal payload and armourment. :old:
-
If you piss on the Betty's wings, they'll catch fire.... :cry
-
I looked at a Betty once and got her so hot she exploded.
True story.
Honest. :D
-
:x :x
:x :x
-
You won't ever see a "kamakazie" like plane due to the respect of those men who used them
????? arent we flying B17s and just bailing out after we bomb... but thats respect full to the thousands of airman of the US ARMY AIR FORCE but we cant fly a plane into a ship
let the flame begin