Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: MonkGF on October 24, 2010, 09:21:47 AM
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Right now whenever I launch on the runway, elevator trim is all the way up, rudder trim is mostly centered, and aileron trim is moved way to the right. This is a pretty good initial setup for single-engine aircraft, but means that I'm having to apply rudder input for a straight takeoff even for multi-engine aircraft. Is there any way to change this setup for multi-engine aircraft? Not sure where this might even get set. It doesn't seem to remember from the prior flight, not sure, but with a multi-engine aircraft I really want rudder and aileron centered on takeoff.
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As far as I know you can't change the setup at all. But, if you go to the flight preferences you can disable combat trim, it will keep everything centered and allow you to adjust it your self.
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You will always need to apply rudder for takeoff due to the torque of the engine, also know as P factor, except in some twins with counter rotating props.
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as soon as you hit the tarmac shut off combat trim, then once in the air turn it back on.
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Right now whenever I launch on the runway, elevator trim is all the way up, rudder trim is mostly centered, and aileron trim is moved way to the right. This is a pretty good initial setup for single-engine aircraft, but means that I'm having to apply rudder input for a straight takeoff even for multi-engine aircraft. Is there any way to change this setup for multi-engine aircraft? Not sure where this might even get set. It doesn't seem to remember from the prior flight, not sure, but with a multi-engine aircraft I really want rudder and aileron centered on takeoff.
You need to look at different planes, what you're saying is incorrect. The P38 starts with both rudder and aileron neutral. The 110 has slight right rudder and some right aileron. That makes sense as the 38 has counterrotating props while the 110 doesn't. When not using auto-takeoff and in RL aircraft it's perfectly normal to put in rudder and aileron as ColTomb mentions even with a twin providing it doesn't have counterrotating props.
As far as what the trim will do if you turn CT off it depends on how you've mapped your trim controls. If you just use the keyboard (or keyboard buttons mapped to the flight controls) then trim will stay where CT has it set. If, however, you map your trim controls as analog inputs from trim wheels or sliders on your controls then trim will go to where these analog controls are set. For instance, if CT has full right aileron and you use the keyboard buttons to set trim, the trim will stay full right when you turn CT off. You can turn CT off by either toggling the CT control or by hitting a trim button. But, if you have mapped your aileron trim as an analog input to a wheel and the wheel is centered then, when you turn CT off, the aileron trim will move to centered.
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Thanks, I'll double-check the individual aircraft like the P-38 next time. I do have combat trim off by default and rarely use it anymore, and am using the keyboard. I've just been surprised at how much rudder and stick I'm having to use to keep bombers and 110s on the runway, and I'll double-check the P-38 next time I'm in the arena.
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I donīt use Auto Take off.
I just set elevator trim 1 line above neutral and set flaps , if necessary.
I set 100% and roll, as soon as the airplane raises its tail, I apply WEP if available, and keep rolling, when I hear gear stress sound(you will hear that sound twice before gear breaks...), I lift off keeping nose low, retract gear, and keep accelerating before setting climb, or go after nearby cons.
After landing for rearm/refuel I set Combat Trim so all trim is set as before and set elevator trim manually to my preferred initial position.
Using Auto Take Off ,one is a sitting duck for attackers.
Mutley
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You will always need to apply rudder for takeoff due to the torque of the engine, also know as P factor, except in some twins with counter rotating props.
That's not true , the P38 had counter rotating props. The torque did not exists as long as both props were developing power.
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That's not true , the P38 had counter rotating props. The torque did not exists as long as both props were developing power.
Another reason to fly the P38, you can go to the fridge with out auto climb on!
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you could just larn to compensate. . . you know (could know) which way the prop turns and with very little expereince you figure out which planes lik to veer right or left depending. Also not that these effects are also at work when your plane is in the air and become very pronouced in a stall fight. . . so getting a hang of it now is better then trying to dodge the the whole mechanic.
and yes, the 38 and many bombers require very little or no rudder work on takeoff. . .
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You will always need to apply rudder for takeoff due to the torque of the engine, also know as P factor, except in some twins with counter rotating props.
That's not true , the P38 had counter rotating props. The torque did not exists as long as both props were developing power.
Sometimes it helps to read to the end of the sentence before you respond. :D
ColTomb it's not P-factor it's the spiral slipstream. P-factor is asymmetric disk loading and it's not easy to notice the effects.
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To the OP,
The P38 is the only aircraft in game with counter-rotating props. All other aircraft in the game requires some degree of rudder input for manual takeoff- regardless of trim settings. If I were you, make it easy on yourself by learning to use rudder on takeoff. Fiddling with the combat trim too much on takeoff just makes things more complicated than need be... especially when you have to retrim when engaging in a dogfight.
If I am not mistaken, the P38 was the only twin engine fighter in WW2 to have the counter-rotating propeller configuration. The P38 also represented lot of "firsts" in military aviation history. But that is for another thead in another topic.
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Here is a bit of info on P-factor,asymmetric disk loading, ect. FLS has got to do a little research on this subject,
and I fell into the same myth as many others. Here is quote from the article that I also did not know.
"The vertical fin and rudder have been installed at a slight angle,
so they are aligned with the actual airflow, not with the axis of the aircraft".
Thanks FLS. I learned a little something today. Here's the link.
http://www.qmfc.org/school/asym.htm (http://www.qmfc.org/school/asym.htm)
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Here is a bit of info on P-factor,asymmetric disk loading, ect. FLS has got to do a little research on this subject,
and I fell into the same myth as many others. Here is quote from the article that I also did not know.
"The vertical fin and rudder have been installed at a slight angle,
so they are aligned with the actual airflow, not with the axis of the aircraft".
Thanks FLS. I learned a little something today. Here's the link.
http://www.qmfc.org/school/asym.htm (http://www.qmfc.org/school/asym.htm)
Your link explicitly supports my position. Why do you think I need more research?
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No FLS that was a typo error. I needed the research, and learned a littel in the process.
Again thanks for bringing that to my attention. should have said "has got ME to do".
omitted that me part....It was very early in the morning...
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I have to do a lot of editing myself ColTomb. :D
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Many,many factors play into the amount of rudder that needs to be applied during takeoff.
In the real world an aircraft equipped with say, a 100 hp engine and then modified with a 150 hp, will react much different on takeoff than one would think.
The size of the prop does make a difference, but in general it is how fast it spins in takeoff (rpm) and pitch. The defult setting in AH is high rpm, what you want during takeoff. As far as P-factor, design of the aircraft can also play a big part, if you have a big tail surface, you may need more rudder,conversely the large rudder will have more effect at slower speeds.
Best way to put it is every aircraft in here is a little different, just need to figure each one out.
A good way to do this is to start auto-takeoff and then move the controls a little bit to gain manual control. Do this closer and closer to initial takeoff as you get better. :joystick:
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Right now whenever I launch on the runway, elevator trim is all the way up, rudder trim is mostly centered, and aileron trim is moved way to the right. This is a pretty good initial setup for single-engine aircraft, but means that I'm having to apply rudder input for a straight takeoff even for multi-engine aircraft. Is there any way to change this setup for multi-engine aircraft? Not sure where this might even get set. It doesn't seem to remember from the prior flight, not sure, but with a multi-engine aircraft I really want rudder and aileron centered on takeoff.
well...in real life, you need rudder input to keep her straight on the runway. i don't know for multi engined, as i've never flown multiengined planes in real life......
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Rudder trim is just what it says....trim, it is no way designed to be able to fly the aircraft,only to take the load from the controls, otherwise it would be to heavy to hold the yoke, or stick for any time period.
ironically you can fly an aircraft to the ground with just trim. A typical configuration for takeoff is rudder trim center and aileron trim center with slight nose up trim inside of a "range" sometimes marked on the trim wheel itself
well...in real life, you need rudder input to keep her straight on the runway. i don't know for multi engined, as I've never flown multiengined planes in real life......
Multi engine same thing, instead of 1 prop producing torque you now have 2, counter-rotating props cancel out the torque, and produce a center line of thrust condition similar to jets. Even in this config the rudder is still needed as you advance the throttles due to the fact that both engines are rarley "matched" perfectly to each other and their corresponding throttle position. also you may tend to push up in different positions. cross wind conditions also make the use of the rudder..EXTREAMLY important! the ailerons will need to be used also to keep the upwind wing from lifting.
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Multi engine same thing, instead of 1 prop producing torque you now have 2, counter-rotating props cancel out the torque, and produce a center line of thrust condition similar to jets. Even in this config the rudder is still needed as you advance the throttles due to the fact that both engines are rarley "matched" perfectly to each other and their corresponding throttle position. also you may tend to push up in different positions. cross wind conditions also make the use of the rudder..EXTREAMLY important! the ailerons will need to be used also to keep the upwind wing from lifting.
yea.....my crosswind takeoffs are good. my crosswind landings, although my cfi has always told me they're good, i don't think so......i feel like they're crappy.
bob tells me otherwise. he thinks i'm too hard on myself. in all honesty though, crosswind landings are fun, due to the challenge i feel they offer me. landing at ocean city nj is one of my favorites, because there's always at least 6kts, and the runway is short and skinny. :aok
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So, does anyone in AH beside me do this? No auto-takeoff...advance throttle gently until wide-open, apply the little bit of rudder you need - as you need it...then let the plane lift of the runway? Or does everyone just slam the throttle open and complain that the plane jerks toward the side of the runway and have to use auto-takeoff because they can't control the plane?
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So, does anyone in AH beside me do this? No auto-takeoff...advance throttle gently until wide-open, apply the little bit of rudder you need - as you need it...then let the plane lift of the runway? Or does everyone just slam the throttle open and complain that the plane jerks toward the side of the runway and have to use auto-takeoff because they can't control the plane?
if i'm not rushing to defend a base, i do a 5 count as i feed in throttle, and correct accordingly.
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I hope you're starting one engine at a time. :old:
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I hope you're starting one engine at a time. :old:
i even yell "clear prop!!" :D