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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pigslilspaz on November 04, 2010, 10:25:29 AM

Title: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Pigslilspaz on November 04, 2010, 10:25:29 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_singapore_qantas_emergency (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_singapore_qantas_emergency)

at least they are all ok.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Shuffler on November 04, 2010, 10:53:13 AM
Wow..... that would be a frightening experience.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: CAP1 on November 04, 2010, 10:56:01 AM
i would probably view this differently should i have been on that plane....but to the best of my knowledge, these aircraft are certified to be able to lfy short distances in the event of an engine failure....at least to get them to a safe landing area. this is reinforced by the fact that they circled for a bit to burn off fuel before doing their emergency landing...........
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Tupac on November 04, 2010, 11:08:20 AM
The pilots probably wanted to land so they could get a pair of fresh trousers
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: RufusLeaking on November 04, 2010, 11:39:22 AM
i would probably view this differently should i have been on that plane....but to the best of my knowledge, these aircraft are certified to be able to lfy short distances in the event of an engine failure....at least to get them to a safe landing area. this is reinforced by the fact that they circled for a bit to burn off fuel before doing their emergency landing...........
The plane is certified to take off and climb on three engines after reaching "go-no go" speed on the runway.  It probably has a fuel dump system to get to landing weight.

This was more than an engine shut down.  Parts falling off can lead to changes in flight characteristics and damage to nearby components.

 :salute to the QANTAS guys for not making a bad situation worse.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: CAP1 on November 04, 2010, 12:00:39 PM
The plane is certified to take off and climb on three engines after reaching "go-no go" speed on the runway.  It probably has a fuel dump system to get to landing weight.

This was more than an engine shut down.  Parts falling off can lead to changes in flight characteristics and damage to nearby components.

 :salute to the QANTAS guys for not making a bad situation worse.

oohh don't mis-interpret me...i think they did a great job. things could have gone a LOT worse...........

and i can attest to the flight characteristic changes when parts fall off....at least as far as our game goes.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Maverick on November 04, 2010, 12:08:32 PM
Since it seems to have happened at altitude a bird strike is not much of an issue with this failure. It will be interesting to hear what the examination of the engine finds.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: flight17 on November 04, 2010, 03:46:01 PM
The problem here was not loosing an engine, but the fact that it was an uncontained engine failure. The engine is suppose to contain all parts during a failure, but this one didnt. in previous cases of an UEF, people have died or been injured from pieces of the engine entering the cabin. One thing that was lucky about this case is that the wing took most of the damage from the engine so nothing made it into the cabin.

Very lucky incodent for everyone on board the plane and for Qantas.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: redman555 on November 04, 2010, 04:37:45 PM
My uncle, aunt, and cousin were on a 737 otw to Hawaii and one engine went out like half way there, they said it was soooo scary.


-BigBOBCH
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Babalonian on November 04, 2010, 05:11:59 PM
Quote
"The tanks are located and designed to be protected in case of such problems. The wing was affected, but absolutely not the fuel tank," said Airbus spokeswoman Aude Lebas.

There ya have it folks, Airbus claiming their _single lone_ fuel tank in the A380 is designed to be protected in exactly such a cases as this.   :huh  :O   :uhoh


My uncle, aunt, and cousin were on a 737 otw to Hawaii and one engine went out like half way there, they said it was soooo scary.


-BigBOBCH


This was significantly more serious than a contained engine failure or outage.  In this case debris from the engine was uncontained and that is a serious failure/incident, they are very lucky nothing else (besides some of the external skin on the wing) was critically damaged, compromised or ignited by the engine debris/shrapnel.  This incident is worth warranting the grounding of the rest of the A380s in use until the problem is discovered and/or resolved. 

An out engine can be scary but it happens, you usually have to descend in altitude and then fly slightly off-level since you only have power to one side of the aircraft.  I'm sure it felt awkward and uncomforitable for them, but they were perfectly safe, the 737 has some pretty robust engines, even if one of two of them is out.  In their case an incident investigation into why the engine failed would be warrented, but not grounding the rest of the B-737 fleet.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Vulcan on November 04, 2010, 05:27:23 PM
There ya have it folks, Airbus claiming their _single lone_ fuel tank in the A380 is designed to be protected in exactly such a cases as this.   :huh  :O   :uhoh

This was significantly more serious than a contained engine failure or outage.  In this case debris from the engine was uncontained and that is a serious failure/incident, they are very lucky nothing else (besides some of the external skin on the wing) was critically damaged, compromised or ignited by the engine debris/shrapnel.  This incident is worth warranting the grounding of the rest of the A380s in use until the problem is discovered and/or resolved. 

An out engine can be scary but it happens, you usually have to descend in altitude and then fly slightly off-level since you only have power to one side of the aircraft.  I'm sure it felt awkward and uncomforitable for them, but they were perfectly safe, the 737 has some pretty robust engines, even if one of two of them is out.  In their case an incident investigation into why the engine failed would be warrented, but not grounding the rest of the B-737 fleet.

WTF are you on about? The A380 has ten fuel tanks.

The Rolls Royce engines are also used on Boeings, should they be grounded too?
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: LeDragon on November 04, 2010, 05:34:38 PM


The Rolls Royce engines are also used on Boeings, should they be grounded too?

You sure about that?
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Vulcan on November 04, 2010, 05:36:14 PM
You sure about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: CAP1 on November 04, 2010, 06:25:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent


737 is powered by cfm engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Yossarian on November 04, 2010, 06:49:43 PM
This was significantly more serious than a contained engine failure or outage.  In this case debris from the engine was uncontained and that is a serious failure/incident, they are very lucky nothing else (besides some of the external skin on the wing) was critically damaged, compromised or ignited by the engine debris/shrapnel.  This incident is worth warranting the grounding of the rest of the A380s in use until the problem is discovered and/or resolved. 

Only the A380s equipped with the Trent 972s have been recommended to be grounded.  Those with the other ('GP7000') type are unaffected.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Babalonian on November 04, 2010, 07:13:53 PM
WTF are you on about? The A380 has ten fuel tanks.

The Rolls Royce engines are also used on Boeings, should they be grounded too?

It was most likely a typo by the writer of the news article the OP posted, but other than that typo, ever notice every problem/failure with airbuses has an imediate explanation and/or rebutal of "it was deisgned to do that, our product is perfectly working as intended" before their engineers even get on the scene or even before the first letter is printed on an investigation document?


Only the A380s equipped with the Trent 972s have been recommended to be grounded.  Those with the other ('GP7000') type are unaffected.

Makes sence, the article at the time I read it though seemed to imply that all A380s were being grounded until inspections of their engines were made.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Vulcan on November 04, 2010, 07:29:27 PM

737 is powered by cfm engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56


yeeeeeeeeeeeeah and?
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: AAJagerX on November 04, 2010, 08:19:21 PM
I'm guessing FOD on takeoff.  Probably took a few minutes for the turbine to fail...etc.  I'd still fly on one without worry.

Nice job by the Quantas flight crew though. 
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: CAP1 on November 04, 2010, 08:47:42 PM
in all honesty, i never worry when i get on an airliner. as long as nothing important falls completley off, and the aircraft maintains forward speed, it can fly.
 i flew to florida on an a-320 10 days after that one landed in the hudosn river.

we're a hundred times safer in one of those giant  cigar tubes with wings, than we are in our car on the highway.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 04, 2010, 09:10:13 PM
It was most likely a typo by the writer of the news article the OP posted

Even your own quote said tanks so it goes down to reading comprehension more than anything else.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Babalonian on November 05, 2010, 03:53:42 PM
in all honesty, i never worry when i get on an airliner. as long as nothing important falls completley off, and the aircraft maintains forward speed, it can fly.
 i flew to florida on an a-320 10 days after that one landed in the hudosn river.

we're a hundred times safer in one of those giant  cigar tubes with wings, than we are in our car on the highway.

Other than that I'm personaly a Boeing > AB guy, and in general I'm always a little uncompfy with anyone driving/flying with me as a helpless passenger - I agree, flying is one of the safest ways to travel.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Babalonian on November 05, 2010, 04:16:43 PM
Even your own quote said tanks so it goes down to reading comprehension more than anything else.

I love people who begin rebutals before even reading more than half a complete sentence.  No wonder people let ABs get in the air without listening to Boeing's concerns that their products aren't as safe or developed as theirs.

"The [insert name, model and manufacturer of specific product] tanks [<- plural, as we are talking about the product series and not a single tank of the product series] are located and designed to be protected in case of such problems. The
wing [<-singular, so they are refering to a single whole wing assembley] was affected, but absolutely not the [singular->] fuel tank,".

I'm not an AB fan or expert, but I'd be willing to bet there's more than one tank in a single wing assembly.  We can also most likely, contrary to the statements from AB's public relations department, also find another tank or two along the aft fuesalage that were within LOS of the failed engine and in potential danger from a catastrophic uncontained engine failure.

Go grammar Nazi trolls that haven't finished grade school, unless you're waiting for hell to freeze over and for me to admit Airbuses are equal or superior to Boeings.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Vulcan on November 05, 2010, 06:31:41 PM
Go grammar Nazi trolls that haven't finished grade school, unless you're waiting for hell to freeze over and for me to admit Airbuses are equal or superior to Boeings.

Grammar nazi's? You mean FACT nazi's. If you don't like airbus's and want to bash them, that's fine, but at least try and get the basic fact's correct. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it would highly unlike for an aircraft of the A380's nature to have a single fuel tank.

By the way another Qantas flight reported an engine problems (bang followed by burning fuel smell) this morning, oh yes, and it was a Boeing :)
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: -tronski- on November 05, 2010, 08:27:35 PM
A 744 out of Singapore - Its going to be like this for a while, every QF maint issue that occurs is going to make the news

 Tronsky
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Die Hard on November 05, 2010, 09:28:50 PM
It was most likely a typo by the writer of the news article the OP posted, but other than that typo, ever notice every problem/failure with airbuses has an imediate explanation and/or rebutal of "it was deisgned to do that, our product is perfectly working as intended" before their engineers even get on the scene or even before the first letter is printed on an investigation document?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the engines aren't the product of Airbus... and considering the fact that the aircraft survived an uncontained engine explosion and subsequent fire and landed safely with no injuries, I'd say they are quite justified in saying their product worked as intended.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: FTJR on November 06, 2010, 12:40:31 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the engines aren't the product of Airbus... and considering the fact that the aircraft survived an uncontained engine explosion and subsequent fire and landed safely with no injuries, I'd say they are quite justified in saying their product worked as intended.

Sorry you're incorrect.. The engines are made by RR.. you buy the plane, then choose your engine, so a problem with one doesn't mean the other is defective as well
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: FTJR on November 06, 2010, 12:43:46 AM

Go grammar Nazi trolls that haven't finished grade school, unless you're waiting for hell to freeze over and for me to admit Airbuses are equal or superior to Boeings.

Having flown both, each have their strengths and weaknesses, to say one is better than the other or worse than the other is just personal preference
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: phatzo on November 06, 2010, 01:27:06 AM
what engine is your 320 running?
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on November 06, 2010, 04:44:19 AM
I love people who begin rebutals before even reading more than half a complete sentence.  No wonder people let ABs get in the air without listening to Boeing's concerns that their products aren't as safe or developed as theirs.

"The [insert name, model and manufacturer of specific product] tanks [<- plural, as we are talking about the product series and not a single tank of the product series] are located and designed to be protected in case of such problems. The
wing [<-singular, so they are refering to a single whole wing assembley] was affected, but absolutely not the [singular->] fuel tank,".

I'm not an AB fan or expert, but I'd be willing to bet there's more than one tank in a single wing assembly.  We can also most likely, contrary to the statements from AB's public relations department, also find another tank or two along the aft fuesalage that were within LOS of the failed engine and in potential danger from a catastrophic uncontained engine failure.

Go grammar Nazi trolls that haven't finished grade school, unless you're waiting for hell to freeze over and for me to admit Airbuses are equal or superior to Boeings.
ROFLOL! You're basing your 'expert' evaluation on an article that a layman reporter has written? I don't know which is worse this or the fact that you're trying desperately to dodge your huge single tank ASSumption blunder :facepalm:
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: FTJR on November 06, 2010, 05:09:20 AM
what engine is your 320 running?


IAE's Phatz
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: ozrocker on November 06, 2010, 07:29:44 AM
2nd Airbus had engine failure. Landed safely.

                                                              <S> Oz
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: CAP1 on November 06, 2010, 07:44:49 AM
this is being caused by pretty much the same thing that causes constant recalls and tsb's on cars.

 the engineers are pushing things too far. on top of that, they're under the gun to get it to market "yesterday", and keep the cost down too.

 the problem is that with an aircraft such as this, the consequences are going to be much much worse.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Vulcan on November 06, 2010, 04:58:00 PM
2nd Airbus had engine failure. Landed safely.

                                                              <S> Oz

2nd airbus was a boeing 747 :)

Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: 68Wooley on November 06, 2010, 07:07:07 PM
this is being caused by pretty much the same thing that causes constant recalls and tsb's on cars.

 the engineers are pushing things too far. on top of that, they're under the gun to get it to market "yesterday", and keep the cost down too.

 the problem is that with an aircraft such as this, the consequences are going to be much much worse.

Not sure I agree with this. Turbofan's have become incredibly reliable over the last 20 years and this is a very unusual event which suggests the engineers are on the whole getting it right. If engines were blowing up left right and center, I'd maybe go along with you.

Also, the desire of the accountants to get a product to market as fast as possible is countered by the lawyer's fear of the consequences of something like an A380 falling out of the sky because of a botched/rushed design.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Die Hard on November 07, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Sorry you're incorrect.. The engines are made by RR.. you buy the plane, then choose your engine, so a problem with one doesn't mean the other is defective as well


I'm pretty sure that's what I said...


Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the engines aren't the product of Airbus... and considering the fact that the aircraft survived an uncontained engine explosion and subsequent fire and landed safely with no injuries, I'd say they are quite justified in saying their product worked as intended.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: Ruah on November 07, 2010, 04:05:59 PM
this is bs marketing stuff -

engine =/= airplane

so if the engine spits out a fan - then its clearly not a problem with the crate but with the weels.  As stated ealier.

what is forutnate is that th fan/lose blades did not sever the wing (death for all), ut the plane in half (death for all) or tak out the tail/elivators (death for all) - so considering all; the places it could have sput out to - it was a lucky outcome.
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: -tronski- on November 10, 2010, 01:01:02 AM
The blades don't necessarily need to server wings, or cut the fuse in half - as it was these passengers were pretty lucky considering the damage this A380 has taken.

Pieces of the engine punched holes through the wing, including one of the fuel tanks, severed the controls of the number 1 engine, tore a hole in in the front spar so big you can apparently put your head in it. Debris damaged the fuselage at the wing root but luckily didn't compromise the pressurised cabin.
At first it was thought it would take at least 2 months to repair - but now theres talk it could be a write off

 Tronsky
Title: Re: Airbus forced landing
Post by: 2bighorn on November 10, 2010, 02:20:01 AM
The engine is suppose to contain all parts during a failure, but this one didnt.

It's suppose not.