Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Slate on November 05, 2010, 07:32:33 AM
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I know this should be in Aircraft/Vehicle threads but It'll probally be transferred there when Skuzzy wakes up.
There have been a lot of complaints of GVers about the inconsistency of damage to enemy Gvs. "I hit you three times and you shot me once" sort of thing. When you have a glancing blow you will see a small hit sprite and maybe a ricochet. I have seen multiple large hit sprites with no damage on various vehicles. Sometimes the new M-4 seems indestructible. Sometimes it's a panzer. No don't tell me about them having supplies that is not the case most of the time.
If I'm being :noid let me know. But for now I'll have to get my Aces High.
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Probably location of hit and angle.
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Probably location of hit and angle.
QFT
<S> Oz
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With a bad angle you will get a deflection and see a richochet. Front armor is understandable or certain parts of turret. Several side shots should penetrate. With a large hit sprite it indicates good hit. I've heard experienced players being frustrated with the inconsistency of it. The Damage model on aircraft has been updated and maybe more attention should be made to the GV model.
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Probably location of hit and angle.
This is very true. Isn't distance and kinetic energy figured in there as well?
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This is very true. Isn't distance and kinetic energy figured in there as well?
I was just about to mention that...yes it is.
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This is very true. Isn't distance and kinetic energy figured in there as well?
5 hits on a tiger 800 yards out nothing. from the side and the the treads
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GV modelling in this game is just goofy and IMHO a real problem area that with a littl work could really be improved.
All joking about SHRUBBERIES!!!! stopping tanks dead in their tracks (or even worse flipping them) aside, the effect of hits on GVs and damage needs work. I wish I had film or photos, but many many times I have shot enemy tanks at inside of 800 yards, dead center hit to the chassis of the tank from the front quarter and directly from the side, only to see NO hit sprite what-so-ever, and dirt kicked up from the ground on the other side as my round PASSED THROUGH the enemy tank with no discernable damage done at all. One night I hit an enemy M4 in this manner from approx D800 with HVAP rounds, all 3 times no damage. No ricochet, just no damage as if the round had gone right through him and hit the ground on the other side of where he was sitting. He finally figured out where I was, rotated his turret, and 1-shot killed me.
:furious
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GV modelling in this game is just goofy and IMHO a real problem area that with a littl work could really be improved.
All joking about SHRUBBERIES!!!! stopping tanks dead in their tracks (or even worse flipping them) aside, the effect of hits on GVs and damage needs work. I wish I had film or photos, but many many times I have shot enemy tanks at inside of 800 yards, dead center hit to the chassis of the tank from the front quarter and directly from the side, only to see NO hit sprite what-so-ever, and dirt kicked up from the ground on the other side as my round PASSED THROUGH the enemy tank with no discernable damage done at all. One night I hit an enemy M4 in this manner from approx D800 with HVAP rounds, all 3 times no damage. No ricochet, just no damage as if the round had gone right through him and hit the ground on the other side of where he was sitting. He finally figured out where I was, rotated his turret, and 1-shot killed me.
:furious
I have experienced the frustration of hits with no 'apparent' damage, including direct, close range hits on the tracks as the enemy continued to drive away. I have NOT experienced the round passing right through the enemy tank. I have not heard complaints on range about this experience either. I do hear complaints about 'no damage' hits (usually on the same frequent tankers).
That having been said, in fairness, I will admit that I have, on occasion, had the benefit of the 'dud' tank round. I don't know what I did or how I managed to get my tank in a position where the rounds were ineffective; but, there have been times where I have been hit solidly by enemy rounds (with the loud bang on my tank) only to find (to my surprise) that I am still in the fight. I obviously don't complain at my good fortune, but do complain when it is my weak round. :lol
I would argue that it SEEMS that I shoot the 'dud' round more frequently than I receive it. The question is.... is it the "modeling" or is it something that the experienced tankers have figured out to find places where their tanks are 'less vulnerable'? I often see some of my shots that should have destroyed or at least tracked a tank (dead side shot at close range) and nothing happens. I don't see how this can be anything but program error or modeling. However, as I am not a COAD experten, I can either suck it up and accept that I occasionally benefit from the error, or I can piss and moan that the world is NOT FAIR!. :rock I am thinking that I take a combination of the two options. :D I piss and moan, then suck it up and move on. :D
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honestly i just need to figure out DR. 7's one hit wonder code and be done with it
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honestly i just need to figure out DR. 7's one hit wonder code and be done with it
:lol
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honestly i just need to figure out DR. 7's one hit wonder code and be done with it
DR7 is just that good at rangeing a tank. If I miss low or high he doesn't give you a second shot. He also makes the most of the terrain using hills and angles to his advantage as we spawn and roll into his sights. I hit him three times with a T-34 in different spotsand saw good large hit sprites on his M-4 76(w) turret and front. Of course again I was the loser.
I don't think anyone is cheating just think the damage model needs work when several AP rounds have no effect whatsoever.
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it amazes me the "through the hills" shots he does or through the trees. and seems from 2000-3000 yards he doesnt miss always one shot one kill,
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The best thing to do when you think there is a real problem is to look at your film. If that doesn't clear it up then send the film to HTC.
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it amazes me the "through the hills" shots he does or through the trees. and seems from 2000-3000 yards he doesnt miss always one shot one kill,
Film it and learn young padawan. :D
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it amazes me the "through the hills" shots he does or through the trees. and seems from 2000-3000 yards he doesnt miss always one shot one kill,
Through the hill and tree shots can be decieving. I have many of times been able to lob a round over the top of a hill to get a kill. I have also been able to range shots that actually go under a tree where I was able to get hits that resulted in a kill. I have also been on the receiving end of those shots. Your film may show the shot going through the hill or trees, but if you were able to view the shooters film you would see a different perspective.
Fred
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DR7 is just that good at rangeing a tank. If I miss low or high he doesn't give you a second shot. He also makes the most of the terrain using hills and angles to his advantage as we spawn and roll into his sights. I hit him three times with a T-34 in different spotsand saw good large hit sprites on his M-4 76(w) turret and front. Of course again I was the loser.
I don't think anyone is cheating just think the damage model needs work when several AP rounds have no effect whatsoever.
Not saying that you didn't hit him, but has anyone else experienced the invisible tree or hill? I have several times, you think your hitting the vehicle when you are actually hitting a hill or tree that for some reason does not show up (even in ground view). That is very frustrating.
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honestly i just need to figure out DR. 7's one hit wonder code and be done with it
I can tell you the secret Columbus... Die more....
DR7 had 811 sorties last tour, and died more times than your kills and deaths combined in GV's. He also spent more time in a GV in that tour, than you did in all aspects of the game.
Not knocking you at all, but DR7 plays a lot, dies a lot, and has been doing it for years... He has not a care about score, just playing. I only WISH I had the kind of time DR has to play.
<S>
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my biggest complaint is the trees and shrubs, when a enemy tank parks himself in a grove of trees and positioned just right, sits there shooting and killing tanks and when you shoot at him the AP (armor piercing) round hits a tree, leaf, stick, shrubs it explodes like a HE round, I'm sorry but a AP round is going to go thru what i mention except when hitting a tree, maybe knocking it over or turning it into splinters lol
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I hate GV's.
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We need something to deforest those pesky trees.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/brit_brit22/viet39.jpg)
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So? What were you in? A T34/76 can hit a Tiger 100 times, won't change the fact that the Tiger will live.
5 hits on a tiger 800 yards out nothing. from the side and the the treads
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So? What were you in? A T34/76 can hit a Tiger 100 times, won't change the fact that the Tiger will live.
i was in a panzer. at 800 yards 2 of my shot at the tracks should have easily taken it out.
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Now that is more interesting......... AP right?
i was in a panzer. at 800 yards 2 of my shot at the tracks should have easily taken it out.
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yes AP,
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Someone like DR7 knows to park his tank diagonal to you...this adds more angles= more bounces.....think of it like the t34's sloped armor.
And any good sherman driver knows the most vulnerable spot is the (chin) looking at the front armor the lowest point just above the ground.
PaRKINg behind a berm not only covers your vulnerable (chin) but also makes you a smaller target.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,269006.0.html
A link to where exactly to aim...accuracy is everything
3 shot rule---if you miss 3 times MOVE and find cover.
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Probably location of hit and angle.
Agreed, there is a new feature as of a few months ago where you can view the armor penetration and round velocity of the tank. Access like you would the speed or climb chart of a plane.
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I don't have the best of connections.
But, when I upped a Tiger about a month ago and shot at a panzer it took 3 hits to destroy it at 2000 yards. Everytime I use a 17lb it takes only a single hit at any range, my longest being 4000+. I have killed tigers, fireflys whatever the round hits. I kill tanks with the 40mm soft guns ot to 4000 yards.
1. What tank gun is the 17lb equal to?
2. Why from a stationairy 17lb gun do I get one shot kills?
3. Why from a GV does it take so many shots to kill GV's?
4. Are we seeing individual "rubber" rounds due to the same problems that create rubber bullets even though we see hit sprites?
If the current damage model in it's increased granularity is intollerant of the problems that plauge our PC's and connections such that we are not delivering data in the amounts it needs to record definiative damage.
Would it be a fair request to ask it be dialed back to a less fussy appatite?
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i was in a panzer. at 800 yards 2 of my shot at the tracks should have easily taken it out.
Always take HE to track a GV. A tiger or t34 will track in 1 or 2 HE hits, then ya put an AP thru the top hatch.
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Didn't read through most of the posts but the way I see it, inconsistency is a good thing. Something so complex shouldn't come with definitive results and it actually adds to the realism.
That said, I've seen some very odd things happen as well, like M3s surviving rounds that I would be under the assumption would tear them in half.
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One of the guys put 5 rounds into a tiger yesterday got its engine main turret. Put two more rounds into it as it ran with his panzer. I put two rounds with the m4 75 into his back and got the kill. Felt embarrassed about getting the kill since he did all the damaged.
I also once killed a tiger with two rounds from il2. Got accused of cheating. Think there's a bug with gv's somewhere. And it shows up every once in a while.
Semp
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I've got 5000 gv perks............ I drive the Tiger often. I have 1 shot shermans, and been one shot by them. I have had impossible shots hit me, and have made impossible shots.
At the end of the day, all is fair in love and war. There is nothing unfair about the gv game.
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Most of the raegfits associated with GVs can be summed up with a hypothetical wild-west style gunfight.
"I shot him three times and he shot me once, I died."
is comparable to
"I shot him three times in the big toe and he shot me in the face, I died."
However, I do have film of some rather retarded happenings. I tend to never get around to sending them in, though...
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i was in a panzer. at 800 yards 2 of my shot at the tracks should have easily taken it out.
There is the little matter of what the round hits after it punches through the armor. As I understand it, the hit sprite means you punched through the armor or hit a track. If the angle of entry is such that it hits nothing vital, the target will remain.
If you were shooting at the tracks, one or both shots may have hit the tracks themselves, which would not have hurt anything vital inside the tank.
1. What tank gun is the 17lb equal to?
Firefly.
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There is the little matter of what the round hits after it punches through the armor.
The sprite means you have penetrated. What you have penetrated is not a factor in its displaying. This is most evident when engaging a Panzer; our Panzer IV has sideskirt armor designed to defeat shaped charge and infantry-placed weapons. Against a main gun AP round of any size, it's pretty much tinfoil. Thus when you fire at the side of a Panzer, you'll very likely penetrate the sideskirts and get a large hit sprite, even if you don't even dent the hull armor underneath it.
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GV modelling in this game is just goofy and IMHO a real problem area that with a littl work could really be improved.
All joking about SHRUBBERIES!!!! stopping tanks dead in their tracks (or even worse flipping them) aside, the effect of hits on GVs and damage needs work. I wish I had film or photos, but many many times I have shot enemy tanks at inside of 800 yards, dead center hit to the chassis of the tank from the front quarter and directly from the side, only to see NO hit sprite what-so-ever, and dirt kicked up from the ground on the other side as my round PASSED THROUGH the enemy tank with no discernable damage done at all. One night I hit an enemy M4 in this manner from approx D800 with HVAP rounds, all 3 times no damage. No ricochet, just no damage as if the round had gone right through him and hit the ground on the other side of where he was sitting. He finally figured out where I was, rotated his turret, and 1-shot killed me.
:furious
AND ON THE OTHER HAND, many times flying above these battles I hear people say I hit him dead center or three times and nothing. Well from my point of view I have seen guys that say they hit have their
rounds go over head of the GV they say they have hit.
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AND ON THE OTHER HAND, many times flying above these battles I hear people say I hit him dead center or three times and nothing. Well from my point of view I have seen guys that say they hit have their
rounds go over head of the GV they say they have hit.
And what do we learn from that? :)
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And what do we learn from that? :)
That when flying overhead GV battles you actually can't see crap that's happening on the ground and ought to be checking your own six instead?
:lol
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That when flying overhead GV battles you actually can't see crap that's happening on the ground and ought to be checking your own six instead?
:lol
That too! :rofl
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I have never seen a shell hit a tank from a third person perspective. That includes fatal hits. They all pass straight through (or, if laggy enough, right past) the tank and land on the other side. Looks really strange when the tank explodes afterward.
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And what do we learn from that? :)
If they didn't get it by looking at the pictures a simple text description isn't going to help.