Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: dedalos on November 15, 2010, 02:15:08 PM
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Did it really take one hit anywhere on the wing to get the flaps stuck in real life? It is a nice plane but flying it is just frustrating. One ping and you cannot fight any more. Can we fix it or this is how it was in real life?
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How many real-life accounts of P-40 dogfights have you seen, "then, I dropped flaps" in?
Something to ponder.
wrongway
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Did it really take one hit anywhere on the wing to get the flaps stuck in real life? It is a nice plane but flying it is just frustrating. One ping and you cannot fight any more. Can we fix it or this is how it was in real life?
LOL. You must have mistakenly taken my P-40. It's pretty beat up, and I always die in it....
I always understood the entire P-40 line to be quite resilient against historical enemy weapons. However, you are getting nailed by both historical enemy and friendly here. What hit you out of curiosity?
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How many real-life accounts of P-40 dogfights have you seen, "then, I dropped flaps" in?
Something to ponder.
wrongway
Non, but same goes for a spitfire, a P51, an LA7 etc. I have not seen any of those either. Does that mean their flaps get stuck after a single ping? Try a P40 for a few runs and tell me what happens
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LOL. You must have mistakenly taken my P-40. It's pretty beat up, and I always die in it....
I always understood the entire P-40 line to be quite resilient against historical enemy weapons. However, you are getting nailed by both historical enemy and friendly here. What hit you out of curiosity?
This is not a 1 time observation. Been flying that thing for like 7 years on and off. However, every time I do I end up with stuck flaps and stop flying it. At some point, i give it an other try just in case, and guess what happens.
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This is not a 1 time observation. Been flying that thing for like 7 years on and off. However, every time I do I end up with stuck flaps and stop flying it. At some point, i give it an other try just in case, and guess what happens.
Noted. So more than one occurrence. Any correlation as to what type of weapon is inflicting the damage? Or is that not typical either?
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This is not a 1 time observation. Been flying that thing for like 7 years on and off. However, every time I do I end up with stuck flaps and stop flying it. At some point, i give it an other try just in case, and guess what happens.
i don't recall that happening to me very often flying the 40E in the ava.....but then, i'm either killing, or i die so dam fast i wouldn't have time to know if my flap was missing or not....... :noid
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P-40E's flaps are made of glass. A paintball gun will take one out.
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i don't recall that happening to me very often flying the 40E in the ava.....but then, i'm either killing, or i die so dam fast i wouldn't have time to know if my flap was missing or not....... :noid
Cap, not every thread is there to be used to promote the empty arena. I don't spam your forum, don't spam ours please.
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Cap, not every thread is there to be used to promote the empty arena. I don't spam your forum, don't spam ours please.
believe it or not, i wasn't mentioning it for that......that is the only place i've ever flown the pee40.
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Just to toss this out there...
If the argument is a historical one, one hit from anything can seriously ruin a plane. It really doesnt take much. Just google plane damage, and the catastrophic damage desribed hardly looks all that bad.
And how does losing a flap on a p40 make it unflyable in the game? Dropping flaps causes so much drag you'd be hard pressed to fight in a P40 considering its anemic horsepower.
Just my thoughts :bolt:
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Just to toss this out there...
If the argument is a historical one, one hit from anything can seriously ruin a plane. It really doesnt take much. Just google plane damage, and the catastrophic damage desribed hardly looks all that bad.
And how does losing a flap on a p40 make it unflyable in the game? Dropping flaps causes so much drag you'd be hard pressed to fight in a P40 considering its anemic horsepower.
Just my thoughts :bolt:
The P-40 is pretty maneuverable with flaps out and can out turn a Spit XVI at slow speeds. Having one flap shot out - usually with it having been deployed a notch or two - causes directional problems as well as slowing you down when you are chasing said Spit.
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Just to toss this out there...
If the argument is a historical one, one hit from anything can seriously ruin a plane. It really doesnt take much. Just google plane damage, and the catastrophic damage desribed hardly looks all that bad.
And how does losing a flap on a p40 make it unflyable in the game? Dropping flaps causes so much drag you'd be hard pressed to fight in a P40 considering its anemic horsepower.
Just my thoughts :bolt:
i use flaps quite effectively when i'm flying it.
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Just to toss this out there...
If the argument is a historical one, one hit from anything can seriously ruin a plane. It really doesnt take much. Just google plane damage, and the catastrophic damage desribed hardly looks all that bad.
And how does losing a flap on a p40 make it unflyable in the game? Dropping flaps causes so much drag you'd be hard pressed to fight in a P40 considering its anemic horsepower.
Just my thoughts :bolt:
If the flaps are damaged while deployed, the damaged flap is treated as though the flap hasn't been destroyed but rather jammed in place. This will cause the plane to be almost unflyable if you deploy or retract the remaining working flap. To keep the plane stable in flight, you need to deploy/retract the remaining flap to the same position as the "destroyed" flap. That's how having one flap destroyed can render a plane unflyable.
ack-ack
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I once survived a 4-v-1 in a P-40E taking much damage and killing 3 of the 4 (making the 4th run home). Rare for me, but a really great fight that I won despite bad numbers. In the fight I got 1 flap jammed in 1 position, and the other in another. Just barely managed to finish off the last guy, or he broke off and later crashed, or something.
It made RTB home very.... "interesting" (it was an entire sector over water), especially considering it made my flying speed extremely slow.
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This is not a 1 time observation. Been flying that thing for like 7 years on and off. However, every time I do I end up with stuck flaps and stop flying it.
Pretty much. :aok
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I agree with ack ack, losing a flap does not change how your plane flys, rather it just prevents you from using flaps.
And in my humble opinion, dropping flaps could occasionally be aa usefull tactic in a P40, if you rely on them...you're doing it wrong ;)
That is my opinion only, flame away :aok
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I agree with ack ack, losing a flap does not change how your plane flys, rather it just prevents you from using flaps.
And in my humble opinion, dropping flaps could occasionally be aa usefull tactic in a P40, if you rely on them...you're doing it wrong ;)
That is my opinion only, flame away :aok
I think you should read my previous post again but I do state quite clearly that if one flap is jammed (destroyed) and you use the other working flap, it will have a negative impact on how the plane flies up to the point that it can render the plane unflyable and you crash. The only time it won't have a negative impact is if you set the working flap to the same setting as the jammed (destoyed) flap.
ack-ack
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Non, but same goes for a spitfire, a P51, an LA7 etc. I have not seen any of those either. Does that mean their flaps get stuck after a single ping? Try a P40 for a few runs and tell me what happens
Flaps were actually very commonly used on P-51's. First notch was called "maneuvering flaps" I believe.
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I once survived a 4-v-1 in a P-40E taking much damage and killing 3 of the 4 (making the 4th run home). Rare for me, but a really great fight that I won despite bad numbers. In the fight I got 1 flap jammed in 1 position, and the other in another. Just barely managed to finish off the last guy, or he broke off and later crashed, or something.
It made RTB home very.... "interesting" (it was an entire sector over water), especially considering it made my flying speed extremely slow.
hahaha you must have ben jaked up on the way home seems like a fun fight
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I agree with ack ack, losing a flap does not change how your plane flys, rather it just prevents you from using flaps.
And in my humble opinion, dropping flaps could occasionally be aa usefull tactic in a P40, if you rely on them...you're doing it wrong ;)
That is my opinion only, flame away :aok
Ahhh let me guess, fight the war, kill the buildings, run out of there type of guy? Let me explain where I am coming from. These planes are not used to fly in straight line enjoying the view. If you get into a fight (I know I know, if that happens I did something wrong lol) you may drop flaps. If you do and you get hit in a p40, 90% of the time one of your flaps will get stuck. So now, even though your plane can still fly, it has become a death trap. To balance it, you have to drop the other flap. Now you are balanced but in a P40 you are doing about 120 to 200? depending on the level your flap got stuck at. Do you think you can fight or make it home now?
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This damage to the flaps has been going on since I can remember, but I never really dared say much about it, becuase they may do something to make it worse. Its true though, if you get hit, its almost always the flap. I dont know it their hit area is huge or what, but there are different ways they get affected. If down when hit and they get stuck their, it can be a bear to fly.
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Flaps were actually very commonly used on P-51's. First notch was called "maneuvering flaps" I believe.
the La-7's (And 5's) flaps could be deployed up to 50 degrees for landing, and also 10 to 15 degrees for combat, and most of the Lavochkin aces used flaps at some point in combat
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I'd guess 50% of my P-40 sorties result in the loss of a flap.
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I wish I'd loose my flaps more often in my P-40 sorties, instead they're always getting jammed in a down position. I've even tried to dive and force them up, but I'l rip my wings off before the flap budges.
OK, seriously, it is pretty anoying to have a flap stuck in a down position, even worse is that this happens extremely often on a P-40.
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Hopefully in the future the damage model will allow a flap to be both jammed and knocked off completely. :pray
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Did it really take one hit anywhere on the wing to get the flaps stuck in real life? It is a nice plane but flying it is just frustrating. One ping and you cannot fight any more. Can we fix it or this is how it was in real life?
I flew the P40s yesterday and I found that the engine and oil were always breaking after 1 hit... Never was lucky enough to lose just a flap :rofl
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If the flaps are damaged while deployed, the damaged flap is treated as though the flap hasn't been destroyed but rather jammed in place. This will cause the plane to be almost unflyable if you deploy or retract the remaining working flap. To keep the plane stable in flight, you need to deploy/retract the remaining flap to the same position as the "destroyed" flap. That's how having one flap destroyed can render a plane unflyable.
ack-ack
hmm...never knew this after years of flight in AH. Thanks for the words of wisdom Ack-Ack :salute
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Flaps were actually very commonly used on P-51's. First notch was called "maneuvering flaps" I believe.
i believe the style of flaps are called maneuvering flaps in general (correct?) and i dont stop at one notch. depending on if i need to i dip it another notch or two but never full unless i absolutely have to. that fight we were in on the deck two days ago i used two notches to reverse and come down on the enemies that were on you and shermo. <S>
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i believe the style of flaps are called maneuvering flaps in general (correct?) and i dont stop at one notch. depending on if i need to i dip it another notch or two but never full unless i absolutely have to. that fight we were in on the deck two days ago i used two notches to reverse and come down on the enemies that were on you and sector. <S>
No, just the first notch was labeled "maneuvering," if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm also having a hard time remembering if the P-51 had plain flaps, or slotted flaps. I want to say that they are slotted, as I know the F4U's are, but then I seem to remember a discussion about why the F4U's flaps are so effective, and being slotted was the reason... That makes me believe the P-51's are not... :rolleyes:
I'll use a second notch as well. Using flap angles beyond max aileron deflection begins to add more drag than lift.
(P.S. I AM Sector! There were cons on me and myself?! How dare they attack my schizophrenia... :noid)
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No, just the first notch was labeled "maneuvering," if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm also having a hard time remembering if the P-51 had plain flaps, or slotted flaps. I want to say that they are slotted, as I know the F4U's are, but then I seem to remember a discussion about why the F4U's flaps are so effective, and being slotted was the reason... That makes me believe the P-51's are not... :rolleyes:
I'll use a second notch as well. Using flap angles beyond max aileron deflection begins to add more drag than lift.
(P.S. I AM Sector! There were cons on me and myself?! How dare they attack my schizophrenia... :noid)
:rofl edited the name :aok
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I flew the P40s yesterday and I found that the engine and oil were always breaking after 1 hit... Never was lucky enough to lose just a flap :rofl
Assuming your name is Dolby in the game it looks like you have 1 kill and 1 death in a P40.
I think HT should take into account your 10 minutes experience and ignore the rest of us :aok
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You're blinding him with science.
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Assuming your name is Dolby in the game it looks like you have 1 kill and 1 death in a P40.
I think HT should take into account your 10 minutes experience and ignore the rest of us :aok
If his in-game handle is Dolby, he's been around for awhile.
ack-ack
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If his in-game handle is Dolby, he's been around for awhile.
ack-ack
Not in a P40. Based on what he said about flying it the other day.
Pointless anyway. The post was moved to a forum where it cannot be seen anymore, and since it is not the bug forum, we know it is like that by design. No problem, I did not spend any time creating the p40. Let it sit in the hangar :aok
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I flew the P40s yesterday and I found that the engine and oil were always breaking after 1 hit... Never was lucky enough to lose just a flap :rofl
i've flown the p-40e with decent success. i never lost a flap that i know of. i was generally doing 1 of 3 things.
1)killing in it
2)extending(bravely running away)
3)losing parts so fast, that i was in the tower in a matter of seconds.
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No, just the first notch was labeled "maneuvering," if I'm remembering correctly.
I'm also having a hard time remembering if the P-51 had plain flaps, or slotted flaps. I want to say that they are slotted, as I know the F4U's are, but then I seem to remember a discussion about why the F4U's flaps are so effective, and being slotted was the reason... That makes me believe the P-51's are not... :rolleyes:
I'll use a second notch as well. Using flap angles beyond max aileron deflection begins to add more drag than lift.
(P.S. I AM Sector! There were cons on me and myself?! How dare they attack my schizophrenia... :noid)
i'm pretty sure the ponys had plain flaps.
the p-38 also benefited from maneuvering flaps, but they used fowler flaps.
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Not in a P40. Based on what he said about flying it the other day.
Pointless anyway. The post was moved to a forum where it cannot be seen anymore, and since it is not the bug forum, we know it is like that by design. No problem, I did not spend any time creating the p40. Let it sit in the hangar :aok
I've been flying AH since 2008, took a break + came back, still not had a flap fall off in my sorties today.
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In P40s? The flaps get jammed in a P40 if you just flip it off as it goes by. Give it a try.
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:rofl edited the name :aok
Oh great! Now my post just looks crazy... Haha
i'm pretty sure the ponys had plain flaps.
the p-38 also benefited from maneuvering flaps, but they used fowler flaps.
Looking at pictures today, I have to agree; plain flaps.
I like them fowler flaps... Those are neat! :D
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"The attribute praised by all P-40 pilots was its strength. Many P-40 pilots recalled owing their lives to the plane`s ability to absorb punishment. ....".
The passage is on the book Mr. Bergerud "Fire in the Sky". He cites several combat experiences with the P-40 in the south Pacific.
One must not forget that the P-40s (as well as the F6Fs) were the workhorses of the Allies during the major part of the war in Pacific. These acft were responsible to hold the Japanese, e.g., on the South Pacific, when they had full momentum. The P-40Es were being produced from Dec 41 on in huge numbers. The powerfull fighters, that we all love, appeared in numbers just late on the war in 1944, when the axis already had lost the attrition war (pilots and POL). Many authors of the WWII say that the "war was won", by the P-40, the F6F and some very early Corsairs Lightnings in the PTO. In ETO, the famous P-51D or the P-47D-25+ just appeared in 1944. The P-40 played a major role in the MTO. So, I would doubt that the P-40 was something so "delicate" as you guys are experiencing. Of course, at the begginning of the war there was not so many acft carrying hwy A-A weaponry. Something to take in account.
A la chasse!
Tiag
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After the war the witch hunting began. Hearings were held to see why P-40s were constructed for as long as they had been: was this some sort of scam or perhaps a kickback scheme for Curtiss?
In the end they concluded that so many P-40s were made simply because they were needed that badly. Workhorse definitely sums it up. It did the work that the P-51s weren't doing. It did the work that F6Fs weren't doing. Better? Maybe not. But it did it.
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When the US entered the war, the P-40 was THE front line fighter, along with the F4F for the Navy. It was a solid, rugged reliable plane with few handling vices.
The witch hunt after the war was really sort of misguided. What they should have been examining is the failure to get engines with more HP in the P-40, and propellers with more efficiency on the P-40 in a timely manner. As crappy as the Curtiss electric propellers were, as soon as Hamilton Standard introduced their superior propellers, Curtiss should have been producing them under license, just like the vast majority of other war materials were produced under license. Imagine a P-40 with 500 more HP and a four blade Hamilton Standard propeller.
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When the US entered the war, the P-40 was THE front line fighter, along with the F4F for the Navy. It was a solid, rugged reliable plane with few handling vices.
The witch hunt after the war was really sort of misguided. What they should have been examining is the failure to get engines with more HP in the P-40, and propellers with more efficiency on the P-40 in a timely manner. As crappy as the Curtiss electric propellers were, as soon as Hamilton Standard introduced their superior propellers, Curtiss should have been producing them under license, just like the vast majority of other war materials were produced under license. Imagine a P-40 with 500 more HP and a four blade Hamilton Standard propeller.
You mean the Merlin P40s :D too bad by then they were basically out of the war and outdone by every other plane in the war
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You mean the Merlin P40s :D too bad by then they were basically out of the war and outdone by every other plane in the war
No, I do not mean Merlin P-40 versions. :rolleyes:
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The P-40 was not only the american workhorse, it also looked like an a s s (aka donkey for the moderators) - and I don't mean this like the P47 that was so ugly that it is beautiful. American planes are not known for their fine figure, but damn this one was beaten with the ugly stick.
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The P-40 was not only the american workhorse, it also looked like an a s s (aka donkey for the moderators) - and I don't mean this like the P47 that was so ugly that it is beautiful. American planes are not known for their fine figure, but damn this one was beaten with the ugly stick.
Well, even in '48 Boris Senior was contemplating buying 50 P-40's in So Africa for the fledgling IAF, but instead they got the Avia S 199, :aok
(http://101squadron.com/pics_webs/Webs-Avia.jpg)
which might also fit your discription Boz... :D 'specially since it bore the name "Mezek" or mule!! :lol
I read a book by Senior (called New Heavens) who was very impressed with the P-40's ruggedness, even later in WWII. I don't remember if he was shot down (maybe by flak) or had a mechanical problem, but he went down in a P-40 in WWII, and still thought the bird was quite rugged.
Best.
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The P-40 was not only the american workhorse, it also looked like an a s s (aka donkey for the moderators) - and I don't mean this like the P47 that was so ugly that it is beautiful. American planes are not known for their fine figure, but damn this one was beaten with the ugly stick.
Are you nuts? The P 40 is one of the most gorgeous fighters ever made. Slap some tiger teeth on it and it's all business. I fly em, knowing I'm gonna get shot down, simply cause the look so cool.
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I once survived a 4-v-1 in a P-40E taking much damage and killing 3 of the 4 (making the 4th run home). Rare for me, but a really great fight that I won despite bad numbers. In the fight I got 1 flap jammed in 1 position, and the other in another. Just barely managed to finish off the last guy, or he broke off and later crashed, or something.
It made RTB home very.... "interesting" (it was an entire sector over water), especially considering it made my flying speed extremely slow.
This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to AH I think. Kill a couple and then struggle home with a damaged bird. <S> P40 and Krusty.
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This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to AH I think. Kill a couple and then struggle home with a damaged bird. <S> P40 and Krusty.
Oh yeah? So...where you been?
- oldman
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P40 is a fun plane. :rock
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Oh yeah? So...where you been?
- oldman
Greets Oldman! I'm still fly whenever I have the opportunity but have taken a new job and am travelling quite a bit. You still terrorizing the skies of the AvA?
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You still terrorizing the skies of the AvA?
Of course. Spreading fear wherever I fly.
- oldman
"Hey, isn't that Oldman's plane?"
"Yeah! DIBS!"
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Yes, the p40 flaps jam from 1 ping everytime, and a lot of times they both get nailed by 1 small hit. Not feeling its infamous engine and cockpit armor's effects either, as it will oil in 1 ping as well
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Yes, the p40 flaps jam from 1 ping everytime, and a lot of times they both get nailed by 1 small hit. Not feeling its infamous engine and cockpit armor's effects either, as it will oil in 1 ping as well
none of what you just said has been my experience in the pee40. i find it to be a very very enjoyable(even if somewhat underpowered) plane to fly, and fight in.
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Robert Dehaven from the 7th FS/49th FG certainly appreciated the P-40's rugged construction. :)
As I pulled up a Tony behind me shot away my rudder control. With no rudder control I was forced to aileron roll straight down until my speed was well over 400 miles per hour. On the first or second roll I observed one enemy fighter strike the ground about fifteen miles west of Alexishafen - and later found out that it had been shot down by another one of our pilots. As I neared the ground he Tony was still on my tail. The Japanese pilot was very good at his job and he systematically shot out my hydraulics, radio, and left guns. I straightened out and headed for a low cloud formation against the foothills near our base at Gusap. The Tony was still on me, but he suddenly broke off to the right and pulled away.
Whatever the case I returned to base. I couldn't get the gear down so I belly landed. My plane was a total wreck. I have no idea whether that Tony pilot claimed me as a victory, but he certainly had a legitimate right because my airplane was forced to crash land and was totally wiped out. I survived, which was the main thing. They gave me some whiskey, which was most welcome, and I think I slept for about twenty four hours. The Japanese were certainly shooting back that day.
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none of what you just said has been my experience in the pee40. i find it to be a very very enjoyable(even if somewhat underpowered) plane to fly, and fight in.
As an on-again, off-again P-40E pilot for many many years (early on in AH1) I can say without a doubt 99% of all hits take out 1 of my flaps. 99% of all SECOND hits take out the OTHER.
I actually took a hit the past month WITHOUT losing a flap -- I was flabbergasted! It had almost never happened before! I grinned and enjoyed the rare treat.
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Non, but same goes for a spitfire, a P51, an LA7 etc. I have not seen any of those either. Does that mean their flaps get stuck after a single ping? Try a P40 for a few runs and tell me what happens
Scroll to the bottom of this page, there are some nice AAR about the 51 pilots use of flaps.
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/combat-reports.html
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/355-gresham-15aug44.jpg)