Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dirtdart on November 16, 2010, 10:26:51 AM
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To preface this post, I state this. I believe there are no dweeb planes, just dweeb pilots. There is not a single plane in the planeset that is the perfect ride which affords it's occupant a decided advantage REGARDLESS OF THE SKILL LEVEL OF THE PILOT. I define being a dweeb as the guy who HOs on a 1 v 1 merge (I don't get the desire to open the fight on a 50-50 move, then not try to fly to a position of advantage. That is about it. Picking (have better SA). Vulching (don't up from a capped field). Ramming (read the TA pages on the collision model).
I personally fly the K4, which now seems to be considered as a "dweeb ride". This I can't figure because it does not turn at high speed, it compresses. The MGs hit hard offline, not so much online, and the MK108 is very difficult to learn and become proficient. The plane has horrible low speed handling due to enormous torque. It bleeds E like a severed limb. To prove a point, in the offline area get a Brewster to 200 indicated off the runway and pull vertical at no more than 3gs. Try the same in a K4 with a 1000HP advantage. You will find they stall at similar altitudes, right around 2k. (Krusty, Lusche, and others who will frown on my unscientific experiment...bah its the best I can conjure as I don't have the CD for a K4). Its real advantages are in climb rate and speed, that is about it.
OK... so I am reading across the boards, this is a dweeb plane, that is a dweeb plane. Add to that a colorful conversation on 200 and country the other day about "dweeb" planes, so now I pose this question. What are the generally accepted "non-dweeb" rides? What plane, if you see someone land several kills in a sortie you go damn, that's cool?
My personal are:
38s...I can't fight them, too impatient.
K4...see above screed
SpitI/HurriI/P40s/P39s
Please throw your two cents in.......
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P51-B
190-A5
P47-D11
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La-5
109G-14
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P-47D-25
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believe it or not i have seen people land kills in a C-47!
now that was impressive!
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Spit16...no really
If you fly it right, its like any other plane, No HOs, no intentional rams.
Its all about the pilot and what he does with his aircraft.
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I personally fly the K4, which now seems to be considered as a "dweeb ride". This I can't figure because it does not turn at high speed, it
The only people that think this are those that do not have the required skill to kill in it.
The popular excuses are "If only I could aim in it, If only I could see in it! :cry"
Until I see more people dominating in it, I will assume it is a 20eny skill plane.
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P38 Big target in profile view
P47-D11 D25 or D40 All Big targets, Extremly Slow when loaded down
those are my two favorites to fly but i dont limit myself to a few planes, i seem to be drawn to the high Eny planes mostly :joystick:
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believe it or not i have seen people land kills in a C-47!
now that was impressive!
I landed 2 kills in a c47 after 2 ponies caught me on the deck and jumped me. I was able to maneuver till both finally augered into the trees. It pays to not give up hope when in a bad predicament.
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I landed 2 kills in a c47 after 2 ponies caught me on the deck and jumped me. I was able to maneuver till both finally augered into the trees. It pays to not give up hope when in a bad predicament.
:aok
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Depends on run....
Porkin.................p38L
defending............hurri 2C
fighter sweep.......51B
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Spit16...no really
If you fly it right, its like any other plane, No HOs, no intentional rams.
Its all about the pilot and what he does with his aircraft.
If you fly it right you should be able to win 95% of 3v1s.
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If you fly it right you should be able to win 95% of 3v1s.
same with k4
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same with k4
True, but the amount of skill required to fly the k4 'right' is on the magnitude of double digits greater than that to fly the spit16 'right'. I don't want to bash on the easiest plane in the game too much, but there's a reason it is eny 5 and there is a reason why all the noobs fly it. I give british players a pass though, and also the american guys that wish they were english. :aok
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If you have an E advantage to begin with, you are supremely patient, one of the three planes does not disengage and try to gain ALT.....
Forgot about the jugs... it is pretty cool to see the D11 land some that are not bomb strikes.
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I fly anything
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True, but the amount of skill required to fly the k4 'right' is on the magnitude of double digits greater than that to fly the spit16 'right'. I don't want to bash on the easiest plane in the game too much, but there's a reason it is eny 5 and there is a reason why all the noobs fly it. I give british players a pass though, and also the american guys that wish they were english. :aok
QFT
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True, but the amount of skill required to fly the k4 'right' is on the magnitude of double digits greater than that to fly the spit16 'right'. I don't want to bash on the easiest plane in the game too much, but there's a reason it is eny 5 and there is a reason why all the noobs fly it. I give british players a pass though, and also the american guys that wish they were english. :aok
Your completely right Grizz. It takes more skill to fly the k4 correctly like you said.
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K4 is in no way a dweeb ride. Too tough to fly effectively and hit anything. I don't think there are any dweeb rides myself actually, it's all in the way they're flown.
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190A5 and the A8 if they don't HO
109s
Ta152
P38/39/40/47
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The non-dweeb ride is whatever you up at the moment. Any other definition is either pure chest thumping or lack of skills. :aok
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The non-dweeb ride is whatever you up at the moment. Any other definition is either pure chest thumping or lack of skills. :aok
:aok
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Never thought of the K4 as a dweeb plane. I find that it's easy to survive in, as it is fast and climbs good, but killing in it is a whole different story.
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K4 hard to aim what have you been drinking :rolleyes: K4=Easy mode ;)
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K4 hard to aim period.
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To preface this post, I state this. I believe there are no dweeb planes, just dweeb pilots. There is not a single plane in the planeset that is the perfect ride which affords it's occupant a decided advantage REGARDLESS OF THE SKILL LEVEL OF THE PILOT. I define being a dweeb as the guy who HOs on a 1 v 1 merge (I don't get the desire to open the fight on a 50-50 move, then not try to fly to a position of advantage. That is about it. Picking (have better SA). Vulching (don't up from a capped field). Ramming (read the TA pages on the collision model).
I personally fly the K4, which now seems to be considered as a "dweeb ride". This I can't figure because it does not turn at high speed, it compresses. The MGs hit hard offline, not so much online, and the MK108 is very difficult to learn and become proficient. The plane has horrible low speed handling due to enormous torque. It bleeds E like a severed limb. To prove a point, in the offline area get a Brewster to 200 indicated off the runway and pull vertical at no more than 3gs. Try the same in a K4 with a 1000HP advantage. You will find they stall at similar altitudes, right around 2k. (Krusty, Lusche, and others who will frown on my unscientific experiment...bah its the best I can conjure as I don't have the CD for a K4). Its real advantages are in climb rate and speed, that is about it.
OK... so I am reading across the boards, this is a dweeb plane, that is a dweeb plane. Add to that a colorful conversation on 200 and country the other day about "dweeb" planes, so now I pose this question. What are the generally accepted "non-dweeb" rides? What plane, if you see someone land several kills in a sortie you go damn, that's cool?
My personal are:
38s...I can't fight them, too impatient.
K4...see above screed
SpitI/HurriI/P40s/P39s
Please throw your two cents in.......
i generally find the more talented guys in the k4's over the other 109's. you guys all kick my arse though, when i'm in my pee38. i do ok against some of them in the pee40 though.
dedalos...are you happy that i didn't mention the ava here?
ooo....dam... :noid :rofl
any of the la's
a20
any japanese ride except for the zeek.
p-38
p-40
me-109's(i honestly don't know how you guys can see out of the dam things)
fw-190's
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P-38's are definitely dweebs rides, I've never seen a more ghastly coven of dweebery, miscreants, and ne'er-do-wells than a group of P-38 drivers.
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P-38's are definitely dweebs rides, I've never seen a more ghastly coven of dweebery, miscreants, and ne'er-do-wells than a group of P-38 drivers.
hey////off topic....i flew the 39 without the gondies......kicked arse dood!! only 400 rounds though kinda sucks....
]hijack off......
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"Dweeb ride" is nothing more than a whine from someone that is utterly unskilled and clueless on how to fight the plane that just blew his bellybutton away. It is far easier to blame the other guy (plane) and accuse him of flying an "EZ Mode" plane that takes "no skill to fly" to help take the sting of getting his bellybutton kicked than to come to terms with their absolute suckage.
ack-ack
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P-38's are definitely dweebs rides, I've never seen a more ghastly coven of dweebery, miscreants, and ne'er-do-wells than a group of P-38 drivers.
Yeah I flew a bit with Pawz and 8Spade this weekend.... nothing could be more true.
Lolz Bone..... K4=Easy mode..... to me, personally, not insinuating anything :huh the Spit V,VIII, and IX are easy mode for me. Guess I am a sucker :rock
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"Dweeb ride" is nothing more than a whine from someone that is utterly unskilled and clueless on how to fight the plane that just blew his bellybutton away. It is far easier to blame the other guy (plane) and accuse him of flying an "EZ Mode" plane that takes "no skill to fly" to help take the sting of getting his bellybutton kicked than to come to terms with their absolute suckage.
ack-ack
on that note, i was flying a spit a long time ago. saw a low p-40. dunno which one it was. i dropped in on him, thinking "easy kill".
about 45 seconds later i was in the tower. :rofl
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YAK-9T is a non-dweeb ride. Only 32 round.
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both of my kills in the yak-9T this tour have been from almost 1k out :D
for the La's on the other hand, I always see lots of people on 200 calling them dweeb rides, It is true that they give you lots to work with from the start, but it still takes a considerable amount of skill to fly it to its fullest potential. and even when I find myself in an La-7 instead of a 5FN, I still prefer to take the ShVAK's instead of the B20's as I am used to how terrible they are
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I ran into a show posted on YouTube called Spitfire Ace. It was during Episode 2 that I heard this from a Battle of Britain pilot...
Gerald Stapleton, PO 603 Squadron said: "Do you know why the Spitfire was a better airplane than the Messerschmitt 109?" "Any idiot can fly a Spitfire, but it took a lot of training to fly a 109.".
As for a plane that that could be considered "non-dweeb"...
C.202
It's one plane I rarely see anyone landing kills in.
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A dweeb ride is a plane that someone prefers to fly over all others. my personal dweebery rides are the P51B, A6M5B, P51B, A6M2, P51B, and occasionally the P38J... if im in any other plane its because i just want to have fun :aok
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Yeah I flew a bit with Pawz and 8Spade this weekend.... nothing could be more true.
Lolz Bone..... K4=Easy mode..... to me, personally, not insinuating anything :huh the Spit V,VIII, and IX are easy mode for me. Guess I am a sucker :rock
ya once it gets too easy then its time to fly something else :) :salute
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"Dweeb ride" is nothing more than a whine from someone that is utterly unskilled and clueless on how to fight the plane that just blew his bellybutton away. It is far easier to blame the other guy (plane) and accuse him of flying an "EZ Mode" plane that takes "no skill to fly" to help take the sting of getting his bellybutton kicked than to come to terms with their absolute suckage.
ack-ack
If you had a group of expertens flying spit16s, such as The Few, or The Muppets, you Akak, would not stand a chance in your pee38jay. After getting killed over and over again by vastly superior aircraft you would most likely start whining on 200 about the dweebery and lack of skill involved, which would be in stark contrast to this quoted comment of yours.
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If you had a group of expertens flying spit16s, such as The Few, or The Muppets, you Akak, would not stand a chance in your pee38jay. After getting killed over and over again by vastly superior aircraft you would most likely start whining on 200 about the dweebery and lack of skill involved, which would be in stark contrast to this quoted comment of yours.
and the chum is in the water. :devil
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If you had a group of expertens flying spit16s, such as The Few, or The Muppets, you Akak, would not stand a chance in your pee38jay. After getting killed over and over again by vastly superior aircraft you would most likely start whining on 200 about the dweebery and lack of skill involved, which would be in stark contrast to this quoted comment of yours.
this is true :t
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Ok, I am by no means 'l33t' but I will say that having been flying the 190 A5 & A8 recently in the DA, its much harder to turn fight effectively than with the K4. I'm not talking about BnZ with an 'e' adv, I'm talking about getting in true turning scraps with spit 16s, etc... and man, I find it tough. You look at the A8 wrong and it wingtip stalls.
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38s are like spitfires if the pilot is good enough
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If you had a group of expertens flying spit16s, such as The Few, or The Muppets, you Akak, would not stand a chance in your pee38jay. After getting killed over and over again by vastly superior aircraft you would most likely start whining on 200 about the dweebery and lack of skill involved, which would be in stark contrast to this quoted comment of yours.
I guess the Muppets would have to fly an easier plane for them if they can't take my little ol' Lightning in their Bf 109K-4s :devil
In all seriousness, the majority seem to blame the plane for killing them and do not take into account that a plane only does what the person flying it tells it to do. So when I get shot down by a Spitfire Mk XIV or any other plane, I don't blame the other plane for doing it, I got shot down because I either screwed up or I was out flown by the other pilot and not the plane. So in your example, I was shot down because I was ganged by a hord of pilots and not because they were flying Spitfire Mk XIVs.
I know you understand what I am getting at but are purposefully acting rather obtuse, because you know when it comes down to it, it's the pilot and not the plane. Hopefully the majority will get a clue and this moronic nonsense of calling a plane "EZ Mode" or a "Dweeb Ride" will cease but I'm not holding my breath.
ack-ack
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In all seriousness, the majority seem to blame the plane for killing them and do not take into account that a plane only does what the person flying it tells it to do.
I've yelled, "TURN LIKE A ZEKE NAO!" at quite a few planes mid fight. Aside from the zeke itself, I've yet to have a plane respond accordingly.
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Hopefully the majority will get a clue and this moronic nonsense of calling a plane "EZ Mode" or a "Dweeb Ride" will cease but I'm not holding my breath.
ack-ack
Yup...don't hold your breath. But let me put this spin on it... what about some of the best sticks, sticking to spiteens etc....
I think the most fun in this game is to find the most impossible plane to fly successfully and try to get good at it. Sticking to the easy planes just seems cheap, but I guess that is some other persons center. I am curious Grizz, in your opinion, what is the hardest plane to be successful at?
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I guess the Muppets would have to fly an easier plane for them if they can't take my little ol' Lightning in their Bf 109K-4s :devil
In all seriousness, the majority seem to blame the plane for killing them and do not take into account that a plane only does what the person flying it tells it to do. So when I get shot down by a Spitfire Mk XIV or any other plane, I don't blame the other plane for doing it, I got shot down because I either screwed up or I was out flown by the other pilot and not the plane. So in your example, I was shot down because I was ganged by a hord of pilots and not because they were flying Spitfire Mk XIVs.
I know you understand what I am getting at but are purposefully acting rather obtuse, because you know when it comes down to it, it's the pilot and not the plane. Hopefully the majority will get a clue and this moronic nonsense of calling a plane "EZ Mode" or a "Dweeb Ride" will cease but I'm not holding my breath.
ack-ack
1 in a row.
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I am curious Grizz, in your opinion, what is the hardest plane to be successful at?
IMHO one without wings. :D
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Hey.... I hear tell one of them Brewster widgets don't need no stinking wings.... <S> Wmaker lol
--Crusader
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Hey.... I hear tell one of them Brewster widgets don't need no stinking wings.... <S> Wmaker lol
--Crusader
i flew an f-1 sopwith without wings................for the 12 seconds it took to hit the ground anyway...... :rofl :noid
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and the airpeedo was born
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109F4 and 109E4 are tough to get kills in
Any 38
F4U1s
D3As
All are tough to get kills in.
To chime in on Ack Ack, I have seen him complain about hordes, tactics, techniques and procedures but never the ride. In a 1 v 1 all things equal, I believe if he was beat by a guy in a spixteen, he would <S> and drive on. This is not an ankle hump this is an observation.
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all planes have there own advantages and disadvantages, the idea is to play the game for the plane you are in and not your opponents. Somebody who ends up playing into the opponents game will likely lose. 190D should not try to turn with a a6m, if he does attempt he will likely lose.
I think what makes somebody a "dweeb" is how much of an advantage they must have to actually engage. Somebody who flies a spit16 or p-51 is not a dweeb, but someone who fly's a plane and won't engage an enemy in the same plane without alt advantage or numbers is.
hardest plane to be successful in is anything so slow that the only way to escape alive is to engage every single plane that chooses to engage u. not because it is at a fighting disadvantage but the more time u spend fighting the more open u are to get ganged and picked.
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The hardest plane to be succesful in hmm.. that's a good question id have to say and early war fighter.
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Ack
i agree it is the pilot, but i also agree that the skill of the pilot can be compensated with the ease which some planes fly. he will gain advantages in some planes that he doesnt actually have to have the skill to obtain normally. or even worse if he is a very skilled pilot flying a plane that is saturated with advantages then he and the plane are beyond term "easy mode". for eaxample just today i watched a film of Grizz in a 262 get 20 killz while surrounded by red guys. he was only killed when he clipped wings with another plane and even with one wing missing he still shot another plane down before eating earth.
for some pilots some planes are easy mode.
another example would be you in your 38. you have flown it so much the plane is easy mode for you. take the Hurri I into the LWA and start landing multiple kills in it. i bet you wont land as many as you do in the 38.
it is both the plane and the pilot in combination that make it easy mode.
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hardest plane to be successful in is anything so slow that the only way to escape alive is to engage every single plane that chooses to engage u. not because it is at a fighting disadvantage but the more time u spend fighting the more open u are to get ganged and picked.
I don't think flying smart is being a dweeb per say. There are some, who I don't get, who fly for stats, that is their perogative. So, being smart in picking your fights, hooah. Me, I am a bit of the opposite, I just like a clean fight.
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I get a lot of crap for flying the 152 but I think it is more my flying style. Same with 51 pilots the plane helps them with their dweeby style.
Planes I think are tough to get kills and land would be the 110-c and A-20 people see these and dog pile them.
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Since when is a K4 a dweeb plane? If you're a lousy pilot you'll still be lousy. If you're a killer pilot you'll be able to destroy everything in your path. Anyways there's nothing my 38 likes to kill more, except maybe Brewsters.
Although I'm not sure why anyone would want to fly a K4 when you could fly a Ta 152. Way sexier.
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I don't think flying smart is being a dweeb per say. There are some, who I don't get, who fly for stats, that is their perogative. So, being smart in picking your fights, hooah. Me, I am a bit of the opposite, I just like a clean fight.
i get what u are saying, but there is thin line between flying smart and being timid.
smart guy-if being chased by a plane of similar performance will not turn back until the plane chasing him is a great distance away or until the plane chasing breaks off.
timid guy- in the same situation would not even dream of turning back until he runs across fellow country members, and still may not even turn back, until the fellow country member is fighting with the original plane chasing him. some may call this "smart" too because he leaves little chance to be taken. IMO this is dweebish.
or or smart and timid guy can take the latter and gain some skills from engaging with a disadvantage, and learn how to reverse the guy chasing him by bleeding E and using throttle work.
I guess what it comes down to is a dweeb is somebody who has an abnormal fear for their cartoon life, and would rather kill time running endlessly than to engage in video game combat.
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You can set the tone of the dweeb ride that you choose by the situation to make it easier to live with yourself and not feel dirty.
When I decide to up to engage at a capped or semi-capped feild I have no problems upping a Spixteen, LA or Nik and spraying vulchers in the face with them.
When I wanna BnZ, then its def the Tyhpie.
When I want to look for a nice clean fight, C205 or K4 only for the option to catch runners.
D9s in my oppinion are much further up the list as dweeb rides rather than the K4.
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Although I'm not sure why anyone would want to fly a K4 when you could fly a Ta 152. Way sexier.
Love ol' Kurts bird, but there is just something primal about the K4. Ta-152 is just so nice and balanced. Has all of the aerodynamic refinements lacking in the K4. The 152 is a sabre. The K4 is a dull axe.
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Yup...don't hold your breath. But let me put this spin on it... what about some of the best sticks, sticking to spiteens etc....
So what if a veteran experienced player likes to fly Spitfires? It is no different than the player that likes to fly Corsairs, Bf 109K-4s, etc. This whole idea that once you reach a certain level of skill you shouldn't fly Spitfires or any of the easier to fly planes is utter nonsense. Fly whatever plane you want is my motto.
I think the most fun in this game is to find the most impossible plane to fly successfully and try to get good at it. Sticking to the easy planes just seems cheap, but I guess that is some other persons center.
I think the most fun in this game is enjoying whatever plane you choose to fly regardless of what anyone thinks. I get a lot of grief for sticking for one plane, most refer to it as being cheap and that I should fly other planes but you know what? I don't enjoy flying any other fighter as much as I do the P-38, even after all of these years. Why should it be any different for someone that enjoys flying Spitfires, La 7s, P-51Ds, etc.? If you think you have to challenge yourself by flying as many different planes as you can, then go for it and have a fun time doing it but don't start sticking your nose in the air and act like some elitist just because someone is flying a plane you think doesn't take any skill compared to the plane you choose to fly.
ack-ack
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don't start sticking your nose in the air and act like some elitist just because someone is flying a plane you think doesn't take any skill compared to the plane you choose to fly.
ack-ack
Was looking for your spin, not mine. Bone flys spits nearly all the time. He is not a dweeb. Largely because in nearly every other plane in the set he is very competitive. I guess there are those who stay inside of their comfort zone without ever challenging themselves.
Elitist..pfft. I am not a member of any of the overt/covert groups of "experts" around. As I recall the post merely asked, which planes other posters thought might be the least "dweebiest" to them. What are on your list?
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So what if a veteran experienced player likes to fly Spitfires? It is no different than the player that likes to fly Corsairs, Bf 109K-4s, etc. This whole idea that once you reach a certain level of skill you shouldn't fly Spitfires or any of the easier to fly planes is utter nonsense. Fly whatever plane you want is my motto.
I think the most fun in this game is enjoying whatever plane you choose to fly regardless of what anyone thinks. I get a lot of grief for sticking for one plane, most refer to it as being cheap and that I should fly other planes but you know what? I don't enjoy flying any other fighter as much as I do the P-38, even after all of these years. Why should it be any different for someone that enjoys flying Spitfires, La 7s, P-51Ds, etc.? If you think you have to challenge yourself by flying as many different planes as you can, then go for it and have a fun time doing it but don't start sticking your nose in the air and act like some elitist just because someone is flying a plane you think doesn't take any skill compared to the plane you choose to fly.
ack-ack
Quoted for truth (IMO only)
I prefer fighting the better sticks, win or lose (I generally lose), but will fight anyone in anything - if I die (mostly do), I'll try again and again.
Grizz in a 262, ack ack in a 38, bruv in a spit, kazaa in anything, Rumble in a ki84, Ink in a hurri, bring it on - I'll at least die trying.
Wurzel
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another example would be you in your 38. you have flown it so much the plane is easy mode for you. take the Hurri I into the LWA and start landing multiple kills in it. i bet you wont land as many as you do in the 38.
it is both the plane and the pilot in combination that make it easy mode.
Honestly, I would probably land more. The last time I took something up other than a P-38 was a Ki-84 about a couple of years ago for a few sorties. First time flying it in the MA and each sortie I RTB'd with 6+ kills without being shot down or even hit, actually found it easier to fly than the Lightning.
Even though I have flown the P-38 for a long time, I do not consider it to be an easy ride as it still takes a lot of know how to push that thing around when you're turn fighting Spitfires and the like. Us dedicated P-38 flyers might make it look easy but we really do work hard flying the little twin engine biitch goddess.
I think BagRat summed it up best.
I think what makes somebody a "dweeb" is how much of an advantage they must have to actually engage. Somebody who flies a spit16 or p-51 is not a dweeb, but someone who fly's a plane and won't engage an enemy in the same plane without alt advantage or numbers is.
ack-ack
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I get a lot of crap for flying the 152 but I think it is more my flying style. Same with 51 pilots the plane helps them with their dweeby style.
Planes I think are tough to get kills and land would be the 110-c and A-20 people see these and dog pile them.
soooo true, if i had a dollar for every time i was dogpiled in a A-20 i could retire :cheers:
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I think the most fun in this game is enjoying whatever plane you choose to fly regardless of what anyone thinks. I get a lot of grief for sticking for one plane, most refer to it as being cheap and that I should fly other planes but you know what? I don't enjoy flying any other fighter as much as I do the P-38, even after all of these years. Why should it be any different for someone that enjoys flying Spitfires, La 7s, P-51Ds, etc.? If you think you have to challenge yourself by flying as many different planes as you can, then go for it and have a fun time doing it but don't start sticking your nose in the air and act like some elitist just because someone is flying a plane you think doesn't take any skill compared to the plane you choose to fly.
ack-ack
Exactly how I feel about the 152. Even though a couple people would rather I mix it up and fly all planes in the plane set I just cant get away from the 152. I feel like there is something new to learn every time I fly it.
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soooo true, if i had a dollar for every time i was dogpiled in a A-20 i could retire :cheers:
Flew the A-20 for a while and it really helped my SA so many planes pass up others to get to you.
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Grizz in a 262, ack ack in a 38, bruv in a spit, kazaa in anything, Rumble in a ki84, Ink in a hurri, bring it on - I'll at least die trying.
Just to clairfy, I only fly me262's against hordes for target practice. Associate me with the actual plane I fly most please, the 109k4 :)
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My apologies Grizz, was only meant as a point of view fella.
Mind, I'll fight ya in the 109k4 too :D
Wurzel
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Just to clairfy, I only fly me262's against hordes for target practice. Associate me with the actual plane I fly most please, the 109k4 :)
a bit off topic, but i'm gonna ask ya anyway.
in a co-alt merge, p-38, p-39, or p-40 vs the k-4....how the hell do we beat that dam thing?
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Hope the guy in the 109 turns flat or split S down? Not the stick others are, but I just climb until I have the advantage, then roll into them. Then, I do some tibetian prayer wheel chants that the taters will connect as a scream down at em...
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Hope the guy in the 109 turns flat or split S down? Not the stick others are, but I just climb until I have the advantage, then roll into them. Then, I do some tibetian prayer wheel chants that the taters will connect as a scream down at em...
:rofl
i seem to kind of do ok against decent pile-its on the deck...unless i brain fart and follow em up in the 39, then i die......but when i come up against the really good sticks, it's only a matter of seconds before i'm on the defensive...and it normally goes downhill from there, as i seem to never be able to dodge those dam taters.....
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I guess the Muppets would have to fly an easier plane for them if they can't take my little ol' Lightning in their Bf 109K-4s :devil
In all seriousness, the majority seem to blame the plane for killing them and do not take into account that a plane only does what the person flying it tells it to do. So when I get shot down by a Spitfire Mk XIV or any other plane, I don't blame the other plane for doing it, I got shot down because I either screwed up or I was out flown by the other pilot and not the plane. So in your example, I was shot down because I was ganged by a hord of pilots and not because they were flying Spitfire Mk XIVs.
I know you understand what I am getting at but are purposefully acting rather obtuse, because you know when it comes down to it, it's the pilot and not the plane. Hopefully the majority will get a clue and this moronic nonsense of calling a plane "EZ Mode" or a "Dweeb Ride" will cease but I'm not holding my breath.
ack-ack
I'm sorry for being obtuse, but the point is, there are many players that are less skilled than you in this game that when put in the Spit16, would hand you your bellybutton much more often then you would hand them theirs.
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a bit off topic, but i'm gonna ask ya anyway.
in a co-alt merge, p-38, p-39, or p-40 vs the k-4....how the hell do we beat that dam thing?
Hope that it isn't a Muppet flying the K4 and you are ok.
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Hope that it isn't a Muppet flying the K4 and you are ok.
:rofl
there's some excellent non-muppet k4 pile-its out there too ya know......
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P-47 and Mosquito MkVI. End of story. And K4s ARE a cartoon ride. Been that way ever since
they toned down the FM a couple years back. Why do you think they're so popular now?
They're the La7 for guys that don't want to be caught in one of those. :)
Granted some GREAT pilots fly them, but in the vast majority of cases, they're flown
by guys who like the fact they can dance on heads with 'em all day using that 4.0 ROC or
better that -no- other plane can match.
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P-47 and Mosquito MkVI. End of story. And K4s ARE a cartoon ride. Been that way ever since
they toned down the FM a couple years back. Why do you think they're so popular now?
They're the La7 for guys that don't want to be caught in one of those. :)
Granted some GREAT pilots fly them, but in the vast majority of cases, they're flown
by guys who like the fact they can dance on heads with 'em all day using that 4.0 ROC or
better that -no- other plane can match.
Flame on. Brave guy here.
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Hope that it isn't a Muppet flying the K4 and you are ok.
no squad 'l33tism' chest beating here....
There are plenty of good K4 sticks who are non-muppets. Anyone remember Creton or Pervert?
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a bit off topic, but i'm gonna ask ya anyway.
in a co-alt merge, p-38, p-39, or p-40 vs the k-4....how the hell do we beat that dam thing?
I can send you some films :devil
ack-ack
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I can send you some films :devil
ack-ack
if you don't mind, that would be helpful, and appreciated sir.
it's actually harder for me to beat them, than spits........
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no squad 'l33tism' chest beating here....
There are plenty of good K4 sticks who are non-muppets. Anyone remember Creton or Pervert?
I was obviously just shamelessly promoting. :D
There are plenty of good k4 pilots, including yourself. (g14, same thing)
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no squad 'l33tism' chest beating here....
There are plenty of good K4 sticks who are non-muppets. Anyone remember Creton or Pervert?
yes there are and we call them "Junior Muppets" or "Muppets in training"
:neener: :neener: :neener:
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K-4 got boring for me, 1 shot killing things just wasnt as fun as it was when I started to learn the tater, IMHO ShVAK cannons are harder to hit with then the Mk-108
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I was obviously just shamelessly promoting. :D
There are plenty of good k4 pilots, including yourself. (g14, same thing)
can't blame a guy for the shameless promotions.....'specially seeing as i'm as guilty as hell of doing that for the ava........
i fought the 109f's, and one of tghe g versions, vs my p-40e.....i always seemed to do better against the g...the f seemed to tear me up in short order....
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Lol....
I was fighting Pawz in his 38 in my K4. We start slowing down in a horizontal scissors... I yet again forget about the slats... SLINK!... next thing I know I am upside down, Pawz has all the advantage and I am soon in the silk. Flying a K4 through all speed ranges is pretty darn challenging.
Late edit: Try nearly 6k ROC. Come of the rw, accelerate to 250, pull the leading edge of the wing to the horizon and hold on...magnificent.
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I'm sorry for being obtuse, but the point is, there are many players that are less skilled than you in this game that when put in the Spit16, would hand you your bellybutton much more often then you would hand them theirs.
Really? I don't think so, just looking at my stats I'm 146 kills vs. 59 deaths (using last 6 tours) against the Spitfire Mk XVI which kind of puts a monkey wrench into the idea that even a less than average pilot in a Spitfire Mk XVI would hand me my bellybutton back more often than naught. Granted, not all the fights were 1v1 DA type set up fights but if your theory was correct the differences between my kills of the Spitfire Mk XVI and deaths still wouldn't be so great.
However, if it was the Spitfire Mk IX or the VIII then the less than average or average pilot would have a better chance against me in a P-38J but even against those I still have a better kill vs. death average. The only Spitfires that give me trouble are the ones flown by those of comparable skill and those fights usually boil down to who made the mistake first.
ack-ack
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P-47 and Mosquito MkVI. End of story. And K4s ARE a cartoon ride. Been that way ever since
they toned down the FM a couple years back. Why do you think they're so popular now?
They're the La7 for guys that don't want to be caught in one of those. :)
Granted some GREAT pilots fly them, but in the vast majority of cases, they're flown
by guys who like the fact they can dance on heads with 'em all day using that 4.0 ROC or
better that -no- other plane can match.
Cute post, but the fact remains. Until more players start dominating in the K4, what you describe is moot point. If you are able to up a K4 and land more than 3 kills before you realize you wasted all 65 of your taters, I would be very surprised.
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the ones flown by those of comparable skill and those fights usually boil down to who made the mistake first.
ack-ack
QFT
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XIV = 14
<========= Roman Numeral Nazi
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Really? I don't think so, just looking at my stats I'm 146 kills vs. 59 deaths (using last 6 tours) against the Spitfire Mk XIV which kind of puts a monkey wrench into the idea that even a less than average pilot in a Spitfire Mk XIV would hand me my bellybutton back more often than naught. Granted, not all the fights were 1v1 DA type set up fights but if your theory was correct the differences between my kills of the Spitfire Mk XVI and deaths still wouldn't be so great.
However, if it was the Spitfire Mk IX or the VIII then the less than average or average pilot would have a better chance against me in a P-38J but even against those I still have a better kill vs. death average. The only Spitfires that give me trouble are the ones flown by those of comparable skill and those fights usually boil down to who made the mistake first.
ack-ack
Moot point.
Ack-ack, on average, you are fighting the average player in the Main arena in any given fight. This is basic statistics. I could care less about how you fare against the average player. Vets should hand the average player his bellybutton in any plane matchup. Why? Because the average player sucks, due to lack of experience and quality equipment. What I'm talking about is the player that is 'pretty good', maybe 85-90th percentile. You are somewhere in the high 90's percentile wise. Put the player who is in the 80-90th percentile in a SpitVI, and he will hand you are bellybutton more times than not, this is very clear. It's not a knock on you, it's just the reality that regardless how good you fly your p38, it has limitations when matched against a dweeb ride like a spit16.
p.s. We are talking about the SpitXVI right? You keep typing SpitXIV which is a different aircraft.
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p.s. We are talking about the SpitVI right? You keep typing SpitIV which is a different aircraft.
Typo
ack-ack
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Moot point.
Ack-ack, on average, you are fighting the average player in the Main arena in any given fight. This is basic statistics. I could care less about how you fare against the average player. Vets should hand the average player his bellybutton in any plane matchup. Why? Because the average player sucks, due to lack of experience and quality equipment. What I'm talking about is the player that is 'pretty good', maybe 85-90th percentile. You are somewhere in the high 90's percentile wise. Put the player who is in the 80-90th percentile in a SpitVI, and he will hand you are bellybutton more times than not, this is very clear. It's not a knock on you, it's just the reality that regardless how good you fly your p38, it has limitations when matched against a dweeb ride like a spit16.
Maybe since I had come to the realization many years ago that it's the pilot and not the plane, we're never going to agree because you think it's the plane that wins the fight.
ack-ack
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funny......i thought you guys were discussing the spitXVI do we even have the spitVI in the game?????????
:bolt:
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I landed 2 kills in a c47 after 2 ponies caught me on the deck and jumped me. I was able to maneuver till both finally augered into the trees. It pays to not give up hope when in a bad predicament.
When I ran the Mafia, this (bolded text)is one of the things I use to push to my sqaudmates. When we first came over from AWIII it was a pretty tough transition as most only flew in Relaxed PAC. The flight model was tough to get use to and people would get discouraged easy. The point was your already screwed, see if you can find a way out of it and no, running to ack isn't a way out :devil It's a game and nobody really dies, try some of the pilot crap and you might learn something!
As for the OP, a dweeb ride is the ride you find MOST dweebs riding. It use to be the LA7 (fast, descent turner, good cannons), now it's the Spit16. The IL2 is a dweeb ride, especially when used to hit GVs. Less skilled players are going to gravitate to the planes that give them the best chance for a kill. The Spit16 fits that bill due to how stable it is as well as it turning well, has good speed and cannons. A guy that can keep a kill per sortie average all month in a spit is ok, but then have him try the same thing in any of the 109s. In most cases the guy will quit the game before he gets good enough to keep a 1 for 1 for a month.
Those that fly Spits because they like them, and are some of those "skilled" players mention just happen to be painted with the same brush unfortunately. Same goes for us 38 drivers, we are ALL expected to crash land them, it's just how it goes.
For me landing kills in the...
C202
k4 (except Muppets as we all know they cheat)
109's
p39
and the early birds of each group are the one that impress me.
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Well let's just throw it out there! Perk the
Spit 16 it's too uber!!! :lol :rolleyes:
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for the La's on the other hand, I always see lots of people on 200 calling them dweeb rides, It is true that they give you lots to work with from the start, but it still takes a considerable amount of skill to fly it to its fullest potential. and even when I find myself in an La-7 instead of a 5FN, I still prefer to take the ShVAK's instead of the B20's as I am used to how terrible they are
This.
LA-7: marginal to poor cannons (better be around 200 off, high deflection shots are a pipe dream), limited ammo, marginal to poor turning ability at low speeds, mediocre climb unless you have some e really stored up, aweful dreadful fuel consumtion....
:aok
dweeb ride
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The way I see it, sure the old adage, the pilot, not the plane makes the kill but give one pilot a Superior advantage in equipment and that can somewhat make up for the skill of the other pilot.
WARNING, extreme example...
pilot A is in a spit 16, pilot B is in a f22. F-22 launches radar guided missile from 5 miles out, kills spit 16. Skill of spit 16 pilot had no effect.
Less extreme example...
I was fighting a guy in a spit 9 with my 190 A5 co-e on the side DA fields. I could not kill him, I could never get the angle because I had no advantages to use to acquire it. I then switched to a spit 9 and was able to kill the other spit 9 with ease. My skills didn't change, the plane did.
As much as we would like to say its all pilot, its not, the equipment has a huge effect too.
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Maybe since I had come to the realization many years ago that it's the pilot and not the plane, we're never going to agree because you think it's the plane that wins the fight.
ack-ack
Actually it's both, as I have clearly shown.
I can see maybe why you incorrectly think this though. Back when you came to this realization(many years ago), you were in the golden age of Aces high, where all things Pwn and Skill graced the game at a single moment in time. Never again will such concentrated skill exist in Aces High or any other game for that matter. It is simply impossible. This is probably why you discredit a plane's ability, since you come from a time where cartoon gods could rack up hundreds of kills in p40b's without ever squeezing the trigger.
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:rofl
there's some excellent non-muppet k4 pile-its out there too ya know......
:aok
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Maybe since I had come to the realization many years ago that it's the pilot and not the plane, we're never going to agree because you think it's the plane that wins the fight.
ack-ack
ack-ack,
seriously, you think if you got killed by a Spit16 it was because of a lack of skill on your part? what if you were in a c47?
I'm not trolling here, I find it surprising.
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I don't find the la to be dweeby just the perpetual ho guys that give it a bad rap. Like the n1k2 and the 110 there is an expectation this will be the tactic.
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Actually it's both, as I have clearly shown.
I can see maybe why you incorrectly think this though. Back when you came to this realization(many years ago), you were in the golden age of Aces high, where all things Pwn and Skill graced the game at a single moment in time. Never again will such concentrated skill exist in Aces High or any other game for that matter. It is simply impossible. This is probably why you discredit a plane's ability, since you come from a time where cartoon gods could rack up hundreds of kills in p40b's without ever squeezing the trigger.
no, I came to the realization way back in the AW DOS days flying against guys like -HR-, Deadduck, Bullethead, Rocketman, etc.
ack-ack
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Well for those who answered, interesting choices, nearly forgot about the early Jugs :rock.
To the thread jackers flicking bugers at each other...Bah!
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I'm intrigued to see the LA's on the list so often. I've never thought of them as a very challenging aircraft to fly well...
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When we first came over from AWIII it was a pretty tough transition as most only flew in Relaxed PAC.
The spits actually feel, too me like RR from AW they are so forgiving it 's funny. Dweeb Ride ?
Define a Dweeb.
Easy to fly definately..........
HL
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there are really no dweeb rides, only dween pile-its.
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I'm intrigued to see the LA's on the list so often. I've never thought of them as a very challenging aircraft to fly well...
Do you fly it well?
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I've always found the La-7 to be a bit of a brick in a turn fight. It's one 5 eny plane that has never given me issues in a TnB fight. Boy could Shane make that thing dance though...
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The LA-7 can turn I have found, as long as you certainly have the stall limiter off... Problem I have with the LA is the effectiveness of the guns. I generally shoot at 4-600 ish, those don't seem to do so good at that range. LAs just get a bad rap for the HOs in them.
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Both of the La's can turn, and stall fight even better, as long as you dont drop a wing I have taken it to 50mph to cause spits to overshoot and stall out trying to get back around, with some throttle flap and rudder work La's are pure killers, though they are very hard to master, and anyone who says they arnt challenging to fly isnt "flying" them at all, IMHO
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Both of the La's can turn, and stall fight even better, as long as you dont drop a wing I have taken it to 50mph to cause spits to overshoot and stall out trying to get back around, with some throttle flap and rudder work La's are pure killers, though they are very hard to master, and anyone who says they arnt challenging to fly isnt "flying" them at all, IMHO
This is true. They can be particularly dominating in the right hands but they are by no means 'easy mode' to fly well.
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Anyone who lands kills in the Wildcat, not the FM2, but the original F4F has done a tremendous job in my opinion. Saw same guy post a 6 and 5 kill run last night back to back. Pretty impressive.
And the biggest dweeb plane is the P-51D simply because the dweeb pilots will not engage or dogfight. All they do is dive on you while you're on an enemy's 6, fire a burst and climb back into the clouds. To me, this is the equivalent of a sucker punch or steeling an old lady's purse.
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Well dont be an old lady and dont let the P51 take your purse, BnZ pickers arnt that big of a problem in the MA, its not just P-51's, people do this in everything, I have no problem with P-51's or any planes for that matter, I think alot of new pilots fly the P51 because that is what they are familiar with, so thats why you generaly see P-51's being "more dweeby" then others
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Both of the La's can turn, and stall fight even better, as long as you dont drop a wing I have taken it to 50mph to cause spits to overshoot and stall out trying to get back around, with some throttle flap and rudder work La's are pure killers, though they are very hard to master, and anyone who says they arnt challenging to fly isnt "flying" them at all, IMHO
La's, 51s, and i feel that 47s are all like this. very devastating and destructive in the right hands but you need to learn them before you are effective at all in any of them. P38s too now that i think about it. Spit's, a6ms, hurris, and nikis and ki84s are all easy to learn and although when flown well, can be even more devastating than what i listed prior, are easy to kill even for the newest of flyers
Anyone who lands kills in the Wildcat, not the FM2, but the original F4F has done a tremendous job in my opinion. Saw same guy post a 6 and 5 kill run last night back to back. Pretty impressive.
And the biggest dweeb plane is the P-51D simply because the dweeb pilots will not engage or dogfight. All they do is dive on you while you're on an enemy's 6, fire a burst and climb back into the clouds. To me, this is the equivalent of a sucker punch or steeling an old lady's purse.
so youre saying i did an impressive job by flying the wildcat only to vulch idiots upping at capped bases? :D
and the P51D is actually takes a bit to learn the ropes of. alot of 51 pilots think it was only good in firing and running when it has alot of qualities that are unused by many of the p51 pilots. a good 51 team even on the deck can devastate multiple enemies. Last night alone my squaddie sector95 landed 5 in a 51B, and i landed 6 in a D. Another squaddie shermo almost made it home with 3. 5 of our collective kills were while rtb and 6 enemies had followed us. Both P51s are excellent planes when correctly flown.
(and honestly no im not bragging our kills in the plane. ik my skills and my squaddies skills in the 51 and im just using statistics to make a point. <S>)
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Well dont be an old lady and dont let the P51 take your purse, BnZ pickers arnt that big of a problem in the MA, its not just P-51's, people do this in everything, I have no problem with P-51's or any planes for that matter, I think alot of new pilots fly the P51 because that is what they are familiar with, so thats why you generaly see P-51's being "more dweeby" then others
New 47 pilots do the same. they choose to run away because they do not use the 47s good qualities. same with many planes in the MA
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The Wildcat pilot who landed the 5 and 6 kills back to back was actually fighting in a fur ball where the fight was taking place not only on the deck but at high altitude, so he could not just bnz. If he was simply shooting down planes on the runway as they were taking off how would this be impressive? I'm giving the guy credit. He did a great job.
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What a shock...it's turned into that "same ole argument" again.
I suck in everything I fly...so everything I fight is dweeby!!! :lol
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The Wildcat pilot who landed the 5 and 6 kills back to back was actually fighting in a fur ball where the fight was taking place not only on the deck but at high altitude, so he could not just bnz. If he was simply shooting down planes on the runway as they were taking off how would this be impressive? I'm giving the guy credit. He did a great job.
ive done something very similar to this, fighting over a port managed to get myself out of a 5-on-1, downed a few of them before my wingman flew to my aid. came back soon after and bagged a few more. but you would be surprised at the number of "dweeb" planes ive shot down in the Wildcat.
id say the FM-2 is a dweeb plane in the hands of an FM-2 dweeb, like me :D
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P40E-Landed 32 kills
B25H-Landed 8 kills nothing but the cannon and nothing but airplanes. (Filmed it)
(http://krazysig.startlogic.com/store/catalog/images/real%20pilots.jpg)
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the 190a5 is straight up EZ-mode. perk it. nao. :furious
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the 190a5 is straight up EZ-mode. perk it. nao. :furious
noooo thatz teh a8
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Do you fly it well?
No need to over-read into what I was saying, as you know what I meant.
Although, I guess that's why the LA7's ENY is where it is.
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do you think the ENY should be higher on the best non perked A/C in the game below 13K ?
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do you think the ENY should be higher on the best non perked A/C in the game below 13K ?
If that was directed at me about the LA7, absolutely not.
I was stating that I thought it's ENY was appropriate, and was surprised to see it on so many people's lists in this thread due to it's performance level.