Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Krusty on November 19, 2010, 11:23:50 PM
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I held my tongue until it's over... but whoever set 4mph crosswinds at ground level these last frames ought to be smacked upside the head with a crowbar.
Stupid beyond belief. It does NOT work properly in AH. Ah wheels and their interactions with the ground are simplistic at best (as evidenced by the way you turn around your center point and not the friction points on the ground) and it doesn't take into account the fact that you're being HELD in place by the friction of the runway... It just slams you sideways. It's made me do donuts and smack wings on takeoff and landings (yes, full flaps, reduced RPM, reduced throttle, wary eye on the rudder slip indicator) and really has been a bad idea in any FSO or scenario since day one. 71 Sqn has many pilots with a long-standing love for and skill for flying the corsair, and even some of the best in our group repeatedly destroyed their airframes on the ground because of wind-induced ground loops.
For all future FSO sakes, please STOP entertaining this bad idea.
Also the short 1k icons are a step in the wrong direction that FSO has been taking way too often lately. By the time you see anything it's 800 and closing. I enjoy 20/20 vision in real life, so why do I have to fly like I'm legally blind because I play on a 1280x1024 single monitor setup?
Call the second part a rant if you will, but wind at ground level is now and has always been a bad idea in FSOs. In the past CMs took note of this and removed wind below 2k accordingly.
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Icons were 1k tonight?
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The design for the icons in this setup were set as 3k enemy and 3k friendly. There might have been an issue with implementation. I just didnt notice in the heat of the action.
As far as the wind goes I didnt see a big problem with a little 5 mph wind. I made @6 CV landings and @6 takeoffs in the 3 frames and had no problems with it. Im sorry if it caused problems but this is the first I have heard about it either on the BBS or anywhere else. I did notice it on roll it just didnt seem to meto be that big of an issue.
You know of course the F4U is notorious for ground looping? im sure you are aware of that. Not saying the wind might not have played a part I cant tell for sure.
Its also not a cross wind if you roll it as a tail wind or headwind. The wind was in the writeup and the objectives.
Finally, if it was considered by some to be such a huge issue, anybody could have raised it with me before frame 1 and I would have been happy to have a look at it but nobody did. Not untill half way through frame 3.
Regards.
Addendum: Checked the online arena. Wind is set to 5 mph at 315 alt 0-2000 ft like it should be so there is no issue with it being more than 5 mph. I rolled a heavy and light F4U offline with that setting and found no great problem with it. Takeoffs and landings cross wind and head wind. I wont say that the wind had no effect on some ground loops during the frame... im sure it contributed to a few bit I did not see a concern at the level that you have raised here.
Plissken has stated the icons were fixed within minutes of roll. It was an oversight.
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The friendly icons were set at 1k for about 30 seconds. As soon as I got the reminder they were set to 3K. The same as enemy icons. Maybe it's just that I live in Oklahoma but a 5 mph wind is a mind day here. I notice our AWAC's fly without difficulty.
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The friendly icons were set at 1k for about 30 seconds. As soon as I got the reminder they were set to 3K. The same as enemy icons. Maybe it's just that I live in Oklahoma but a 5 mph wind is a mind day here. I notice our AWAC's fly without difficulty.
Up here in Kansas, we don't even notice a 5 mph wind let alone a 10 mph.
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No Problems here either on t/o or landing in all 3 frames. :salute
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:huh It was 5 mph. You noticed that? I never even noticed the wind. Never heard any squadie mention it.
In the past I have had wind gusts at 30mph + at different levels in different directions just so players 'would' notice them.
The icon issue was corrected within 5 minutes after take off from what I understand.
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Well I had a MAJOR problem with take off on frame 3 but it had nothing to do with wind LOL, apparently when HTC changed some stuff they wiped my control settings and the game was not recognizing my CH setup so I had no joystick, by the time I got it reset it was too late to participate in the frame, but to the guys that scored the thing from the logs that is what happened with me (sorry).
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Hell, I wish it blew harder. I could of went and flew a kite, in stead of being a nail to the Allies hammer.
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Hell, I wish it blew harder. I could of went and flew a kite, in stead of being a nail to the Allies hammer.
Amen bro, amen
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Same here, I'm glad its over as well. The IJN got "Hammered" 3 out of 3.
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IJN won frame 3
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I don't know who claims they got smacked in frame 3 but they royally kicked our butts by knocking out two complete CV groups and countless aircraft.
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IJN BARELY won frame 3
Fixed ;)
Axis: 2417
Allied: 2394
Back on topic...
Just for gameplay, I'm all for no wind below 1-2k...anything you want after that is fine with me and adds to the challenge. For a couple of weeks in the AvA we had 20-40mph winds at varying alts on the Okinawa map and it made for a good challenge as your plane got knocked around a bit.
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You guys should have checked the wind sock :neener:
Here is a successful crosswind landing I made earlier today, in an aircraft far lighter than a Corsair, and with gusts ranging from 10 - 15 mph. Krusty, it's important to apply rudder and yaw into the wind. Keep practicing in offline mode.
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/B4B/0201.jpg)
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/B4B/0202.jpg)
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/B4B/0204.jpg)
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Where are the guns? :airplane:
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Had quad 37mm installed but was told to get rid of them.
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I've played this game long enough to know that the interaction between wheels (be it plane or GV) and the ground is simplistic, and to notice that wind interacting with things on the ground doesn't act right.
Please don't tell me "practice offline more!" because practice as I might to overcome a problem in the game's coading, EVERY time wind is involved in ground level alts in FSO it's stupid. It's bad enough a select minority wants to ever-decrease the icon range to nothingness. You don't need to make things artificially more difficult.
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Id prefer that all settings be MA standard for FSO. Id leave the experimentation to special events that people can go join to try out. Maybe use the AvA as the test bed.
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Come on Krusty, you take me too seriously. I for one support short icon ranges, wind, and different radar settings. It requires more communication, teamwork, and cooperation between squads. I'm all for that! :)
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I don't like shortened icon ranges as they tend to favor those with a better computer.
That said, wind has your panties in a bind? Wind isn't that big of a deal.
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<scupcake> someone needs to practice their carrier traps :devil
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I like a little wind when carriers are a big part of the scenario as they were here. It lends some realism. Just like shorter icons and manual bomb calibration. FSO shouldn't be like the MA, and it shouldn't be as easy IMHO. I play it because I have this idea that it is at least a little more like what historically happened and a little less gamey than the MA. :rock
<S> wmills
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Shorter icons do not lead to more realism.
Matter of fact last frame my entire squad is orbiting over a task group as defense and an entire SQUADRON of A6M5s appears overhead, popping into icon one at a time then disappears. Could barely see the dots. I'm calling it out, they're like "Where?" I'm shouting repeatedly and only after a long delay of searching does the squad lead see them (right over us, 1k yards) and they fly right over and disappear.
1k is within firing distance.
They popped in, popped out and totally disappeared dots and all. On top of that we had an entire squadron of Ki84s, and entire squadron of Ki61s (hitting the fleet) and throughout all of this none of us saw the other for the longest time.
Completely unrealistic to be all circling and climbing all over each other's flight paths and never running into each other. Actively SEARCHING for the enemy in the same airspace and not seeing them? No thanks. You can take that to the AvA.
I agree with putting full icons in FSO. It's about time this was set. It's always been pushed "shorter, make them shorter! Make them shorter!" but frankly the majority don't want that. Add in lag, add in too many cons in one sector, and you get dots attacking you with no icon until they're wll into guns range.
I've probably got several films of F4Fs diving into my formation of D3As and B5Ns and not showing on icon until 800 yards (AFTER they opened fire). Ludicrous.
Wind at landing alt also is ludicrous. It doesn't work right.
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1k is within firing range? Yeah maybe in the neon banner 6k icon world of the main arenas, but it shouldn't be in the FSO unless you want to toss out all other aspects of simulated reality or whatever semblence there is of it.
I don't agree with icon ranges under 3k for FSO only for the sake of the participants who cannot afford computers good enough to handle the settings needed, as well as those who have less than adequate vision needed for more challenging settings. Regardless of how much some of us might want the greater challenges, within the FSO the needs of the many should outweigh the desires of the few. However, the neon banner romper room 6k icon settings do not belong in the FSO any more than the FSO short range icon settings belonging in the main arenas.
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We could add a -100mph downdraft at all alts...
That would be "challenging".... but you can see how challenging is not remotely the same as "realistic" -- and arbitrary "challenges" are why Targetware is such a laughable game. Don't want need or like that in Aces High.
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You do that extreme exaggeration thing a lot Krusty...and it makes you look like a nintendo whinetard. How about sticking within the realm of legitimatcy for once in a discussion?
40mph wind is a challenge....100mph wind is impossible, even in real life. A 4mph wind can be easily handled even by a newb like me...
Ghostdancer, legitimate issues aside, how long has it been since there wasn't a whine about something in an FSO event?
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Hey how did I get involved in this?
There are always whines in FSO. It is the nature of the beast. Most participants view the event from their immediate interaction with it and don't view the event from the overall pictures or beyond the perspective of themselves or their squad.
Krusty doesn't like wind at ground level. That is perfectly legitimate. However, it is his personal opinion and so far I haven't read a chorus of other people also expressing that opinion. But all CMs are constantly evaluating their design and actual results. Sometimes we find their is a legitimate issue sometimes not.
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I have screenshots from past FSOs of entire flights of perfectly intact planes with FAR more docile landing than an F4u all ripping gear off on landing (in formation, practically).
You make it sound like I'm the ONLY one that's ever brought this up Ghost, and that's just misleading.
In REAL LIFE 4mph isn't much, but IN THIS GAME wheels and the ground don't work like they should and this makes landing and even simply TAXIING far harder.
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Krusty in this thread you are the only one complaining about this. That is not misleading.
I don't have a recollection of other people complaining about this in FSO's that I have run. Then again I only use wind in my designs to enforce alt caps. I can't vouch for other CMs designs since to be honest I don't follow them religiously. I let the designer of the FSO handle issues, complaints, whines that come up under their watch. Usually after I run an FSO I spend the time in between de-stressing. So I can say I do believe this has not been an issue that has generated a lot of complaints but I can't rule out the possibility that I was just not reading the specific thread if it was not during one of my designs.
Please post the relevant threads where others have complained about this before and provide screen shots of how wind have screwed other events as you claim so a logical discussion can occur of whether it is indeed a widespread problem or not. Right now from the responses in this thread from other players you are in the minority.
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Id prefer that all settings be MA standard for FSO. Id leave the experimentation to special events that people can go join to try out. Maybe use the AvA as the test bed.
Completely agree...
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Id prefer that all settings be MA standard for FSO. Id leave the experimentation to special events that people can go join to try out. Maybe use the AvA as the test bed.
Completely agree...
Completely disagree...
The AvA has its own settings, which once you're used to is actually quite fun.
Likewise, the FSO should have its own settings - maybe not quite like AvA, but certainly different from the MA. If you use standard MA settings, we might as well all just play in the MA and join mishuns. FSO should make you work a little harder and cooperate a lot more than just flying around in the MA.
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Id prefer that all settings be MA standard for FSO. Id leave the experimentation to special events that people can go join to try out. Maybe use the AvA as the test bed.
Completely agree...
Why? If the settings in the FSO were MA standard what would be the difference? It's not just the objectives and orders that make the FSO what it is...it has to be more of a challenge than the MA's or it's just a waste of couple of hours on a Friday night.
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Why does it have to be more of a challenge on a friday night? After showing up early and looking forward to a couple hours of play, I'd hate to have some experimental change upset the apple cart and ruin my night's fun. Just because you want a challenge, like no icons etc, doesnt mean everyone else does. We've been over this many times.
The "challenge" for an FSO is to make sure you can manage a squad, and get the required numbers to show up for friday night. To read and follow your orders, and to enjoy yourselves so you look forward to next week. It has nothing to do with winds aloft, icon ranges, manual bombing, and other experimental tweaks.
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Gentlemen,
Just to put some perspective in here as a designer. When new elements or settings are provided by HTC we do evaluate them and try them out if the designer believes will add to the overall enjoyment. We have used wind, manual calibration, night time and dusk settings, etc. in the past. Sometimes it does and sometimes it does not enhanced game play.
In regards to the whole icon issue in the last 12 FSOs the icon setting has only been changed from 3K enemy / 3K friendly to something different in 2 of the 12 setups. The other times the icon settings have differed from those settings was not intended for the frame it happened in.
So yes, new functionality is incorporated by the designers but we do listen to feedback and adjust.
Adventure in the Dodecenes = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
IN HARMS WAY: Ryukyu Islands October 1945 = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Sicilian Stranglehold = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Should Have Been a Milkrun = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k (icons off below 200')
A Mindanao Sunset = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Targets of Opportunity = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 1k (icons off below 500')
Angels Eight = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Rangoon Sunrise = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Breaking Gustave 1944 = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Operation Marita = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
ARMAGEDDON: Japan Summer 1945 = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
Operation Panzerfaust = Icons friendly 3k/enemy 3k
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You guys should have checked the wind sock :neener:
Here is a successful crosswind landing I made earlier today, in an aircraft far lighter than a Corsair, and with gusts ranging from 10 - 15 mph. Krusty, it's important to apply rudder and yaw into the wind. Keep practicing in offline mode.
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/B4B/0201.jpg)
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/B4B/0202.jpg)
(http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp278/B4B/0204.jpg)
Easy mode.
Let's see it with a taildragger :devil
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Its always the same cheerleaders from both sides ranting. I suggest an FSO poll on whether we would like the designs to be standard or free to do whatever. 1 vote per player of course.
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You simply cannot have a "standard" setup if you want variations in the design. There are good designs that need the flexibility to change the settings, there is never going to be a "standard" setup that will ever be agreed on. What one person likes, as this thread shows, someone else won't like.
Ghostdancer showed that even reacting to the "constant" short icon ranges have only happened on 2 of 12 events. Don't tie the designers hands, just provide feedback and consider this particular forum is not the only source of information that get's to the designers.
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Why does it have to be more of a challenge on a friday night? After showing up early and looking forward to a couple hours of play, I'd hate to have some experimental change upset the apple cart and ruin my night's fun. Just because you want a challenge, like no icons etc, doesnt mean everyone else does. We've been over this many times.
The "challenge" for an FSO is to make sure you can manage a squad, and get the required numbers to show up for friday night. To read and follow your orders, and to enjoy yourselves so you look forward to next week. It has nothing to do with winds aloft, icon ranges, manual bombing, and other experimental tweaks.
No Filth I wasn't talking about "experimental tweaks". I was talking more along the lines of "not MA standards". I'm pretty certain over the course of several heated discussions that no enemy icons is not appropriate for FSO so that item can be dropped. But what about 3k for enemy/friendly? Or different radar settings? Wind at varying alts? Clouds and fog? Those settings take some tweaking to get right.
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The 3k icon is fine, as long as its all the way to the deck. The clouds/fog wind dont really bother the fighters that much, but it plays havoc with the bombs. Couple that with manual aim and you can bet alot of guys slated for bomber duty are going to feel like it was a waste of a night.
The radar,since the dots are off isnt that big except when it flashes a base. If too small a ring, it can allow attacks to get in unopposed before the cap can intercept. INTERCEPTION of enemy flights should be the priority over any eye candy, or use of a tool that the game can provide the designer.
I guess all Im asking is that the designers and FSO CMs dont forget that where 5 people or so may be involved in the design of an FSO, and may be aware of every effect they produce, 500 others show up to play it. Every effort should be made to allow fights to happen, and in a way thats not totally alien to them. Where we appreciate their efforts in designing and running FSOs, please appreciate our time for showing up to play them.
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The 3k icon is fine, as long as its all the way to the deck. The clouds/fog wind dont really bother the fighters that much, but it plays havoc with the bombs. Couple that with manual aim and you can bet alot of guys slated for bomber duty are going to feel like it was a waste of a night.
The radar,since the dots are off isnt that big except when it flashes a base. If too small a ring, it can allow attacks to get in unopposed before the cap can intercept. INTERCEPTION of enemy flights should be the priority over any eye candy, or use of a tool that the game can provide the designer.
I guess all Im asking is that the designers and FSO CMs dont forget that where 5 people or so may be involved in the design of an FSO, and may be aware of every effect they produce, 500 others show up to play it. Every effort should be made to allow fights to happen, and in a way thats not totally alien to them. Where we appreciate their efforts in designing and running FSOs, please appreciate our time for showing up to play them.
It's the thrill of the hunt. Good comms, tactics and savvy leaders are what will find the opposition A little Spidey sense never hurts, either :D
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No CM or designer wants to design a bad or non fun event. However, we do want the events to simulate the theater of combat at the time. Different theaters and different time periods had different conditions. Using the tools we try to simulate what we can to give it that flavor.
The 3k icon is fine, as long as its all the way to the deck.
This issue is probably the most divisive among the players and we CMs do know that. As I have stated it has been tried 2 times out of 12 (or 2 out of the last 6 designs). Changing from the 3k visibility has not been the norm.
The clouds/fog wind dont really bother the fighters that much, but it plays havoc with the bombs. Couple that with manual aim and you can bet alot of guys slated for bomber duty are going to feel like it was a waste of a night.
Several theaters of operations were known for their weather, Aeutians comes to mind. When including weather and or manual aiming a designer is trying to accomplish several possible things:
- A theater and time period might have been known for combat operations only being at a certain altitude, the Burma Campaign comes to mind that combat operations were in the teens not 20Ks or higher. So a designer has a couple of choices to A) just live with the players conducting operations at whatever alt they like B) to set a wind layer blowing down at max wind speed at say 18K C) Put some weather over the target so that level bombers need to operate at lower alts to make sure the avoid the cloud cover. This said designers should provide the players with a weather report so they can plan accordingly (i.e. Possible clouds over target fro 17K to 20K, winds at 10 mph 19K from the east).
- Manual calibration is used by some designers to make up or compensate for formations on and the available targets not needing much ordinance to kill them. Basically one two flights of B17s or Ju88s with formations can take out a small airbase by themselves. With manual calibration you make it harder and require each side deploy more bombers to make sure they get the job done. Or a designer can turn formations off. The challenge here is that while some bombers are survivable without formations (B17, B24, B26, Ki67, etc.) some bombers really aren't (Boston III comes to mind). So depending on the setting you will usually see formations on and manual calibration versus formations off and MA calibrations. Even then sometimes you will see MA calibration on and formations on when a designer wants to emphasize fighter combat and protection of small bomber force in his design. In this setting you will see a larger percentage of fighters involved than bombers since no CiC usually wants to deploy more bombers than they are required to.
- And of course the pilots in WW2 had to deal with weather conditions, so instead of it being sunny and clear skies all the time CMs every now and then throw in conditions that both sides have to deal with. Again the key here is for the designer to provide a weather report (just like pilots got in real life back then) making them aware of conditions and allowing them to plan accordingly.
The radar,since the dots are off isnt that big except when it flashes a base. If too small a ring, it can allow attacks to get in unopposed before the cap can intercept. INTERCEPTION of enemy flights should be the priority over any eye candy, or use of a tool that the game can provide the designer.
Different base under attack settngs (create by radar rings) simulate different theaters. In BOB it is much larger since the British had a very sophisticated early warning net that consisted of radar and ground spotters. In a Slot setup you have a the Coast Watchers so most designers go with a larger ring. In an Aleutians setup you have almost no infrastructure or population in the battle area hence a smaller ring. The same holds true in Greece. At the time Greece didn't have a strong infrastructure (making it very difficult to ground spotters to relay information) and the terrain made it very difficult to spot enemy planes far out from bases.
This said there are many ways to compensate for this. CiCs can deploy pickets to create a line which will hopefully spot incoming attacks far out from their intended targets. Also CiCs can task pilots to actively scout and to try to find the incoming attacks by flying out from targets and looking for the enemy. Both tactics have been used in the past many times. A CiC that just has squads orbiting a base increases the chance of an attack slipping by them when the are on the far side of their orbit.
A CM does not change the base under attack radius just because it is a tool or eye candy. They change it to simulate conditions. Again a CM needs to make players aware of this and other settings so that the can plan accordingly.
I guess all Im asking is that the designers and FSO CMs dont forget that where 5 people or so may be involved in the design of an FSO, and may be aware of every effect they produce, 500 others show up to play it. Every effort should be made to allow fights to happen, and in a way thats not totally alien to them. Where we appreciate their efforts in designing and running FSOs, please appreciate our time for showing up to play them.
Designers are exceedingly aware of the fact that we are designing for the players. This is why even during an event we will tweak and change things if results and data show that things are out of whack. At times we have swapped one squad from one side to the other when the player percentage we went with and thought was good is shown to be off do to the results of the frame. Or why me might introduce an additional plane to the planeset (in the case of Dodacenese I think that 109Gs and 109G6s can take on Spit Vs, Spit IXs, Seafires and C.205s. If the results show that I am seriously wrong in my logic then it is reasonable that the Germans would rush n 190A5s to help shore up the theater) or change the min and max numbers for plane types.
None of us want to see an event fail, flounder, or the majority of players not have fun. At the same time we have to do a balancing act where we look at the event as a whole ... the 500 player level ... and realize that we can't guarantee things down to the 5 player encounter. Sometimes things just happen and people see no action or something else happens. Sometimes giving the CiC as much freedom as possible to plan and run a battle means you are also giving them the freedom to fail. There area also many times that a vocal minority will complain about this and that and insist their point of view is the truth. Examples are a person swearing up and down that bomber came in at 30K even though everybody else involved says otherwise. CMs have to look into things like this and complaints about planesets and evaluate them but again we have to look at this from the overall event and from the 500 player view. 5 or 10 people being upset with something doesn't over ride the rest being fine with it. The rub is determining if it is indeed whether or not it was a local issue or indeed an event wide issue.
This is also why we post the description of the event in advance so that players can ask questions or raise concerns. If we find a concern valid yes, we will and have changed things in past events.
Squire, myself and Nefarious have been doing this for a long time. Daddog was the one who originally created FSOs (called Squad Ops way back in 2002). We don't want events to fail. We don't want to stick it to players. We strive for trying to make as enjoyable as possible for every player even though we know you can't sastify all 400-500 people playing. All we really ask is civility from posting concerns and interacting with us. Also to understand that maybe your experience is not the majority experience. We do spends tons and tons and tons of time looking into everything that is brought up by players. We are not your adversaries and would appreciated not being treated that way.
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Nice GD. :) +1
I want to mention that FSO was originally called Tour of Duty. We dropped Tour of Duty because Pyro asked if he could use it, so we switched to Squad Operations.
Back then we had Squad Ops on Friday and Saturday. The Saturday Squad Ops never really took hold. After a year or two we finally dropped it and just ran with Friday Squad Ops, hence the 'Friday Squad Ops' name as opposed to just Squad Operations.
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Ghost I do appreciate what you are saying. I understand why you want to have the freedom of design. Im just asking that you guys take care while doing so, that you dont make the settings so "realistic" that the player's enjoyment suffers. Spending an hour to a target that you know has winds,using manual aim, and fog thrown in for good measure, is the about the same as dribbling a 12" basketball down a court for an hour and throwing it at a 10" hoop.
I can't speak for other squads, ours enjoys a good bomb run, but we hate to begin the night knowing that the chances of hitting the target are slim. We'd prefer getting smoked before drop, rather than the game settings being the factor.
I certainly dont see you guys as adversaries. I am thankful someone is out there dedicated to spend the time to put these together. This is my feedback that Im giving. I always try to say WTG when I see a great design, like Squire's last one, "In Harm's Way". But I also feedback when Im disappointed about certain things. Don't take it personally.
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Filth I wasn't taking your comments personal.
I was just explaining why designers do some things. Yes, having manual calibration, clouds, and winds on would indeed be overkill for bombers. Usually it is one or other when I design. In the upcoming setup I might have clouds in frame 2 or frame 3 but no wind and MA calibration.
Oh, and new skins for bombers that have a big red bullseye on them. ;)
As for my comments about being seen as an adversary and civility that was not aimed at you. However, there are several players that, to be truthful, are coming across as uncivil and do make myself feel as if I am the enemy. I am more than willing to discuss civilly any issue and hear out any players case. If I think it is a valid concern I do indeed make changes and have fall back plans. Just some players don't realize that at times I and other CMs will go no, after discussing with them and doing research that we believe show this is a local issue or an issue that only affected a small minority of players.
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Daddog you are right and I am just going senile and forgot it was Tour of Duty originally (I still like that name better than Squad Ops).
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[Slight Hijack]
Doesn't the manual calibration correct for wind drift? You have to keep the crosshair steady over a point on the ground during calibration; if you are getting blown a little to the side, you move your stick a little to keep it steady. Then you just put the crosshair on target and bombs in the pickle barrel.
[/Slight Hijack]
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[Slight Hijack]
Doesn't the manual calibration correct for wind drift? You have to keep the crosshair steady over a point on the ground during calibration; if you are getting blown a little to the side, you move your stick a little to keep it steady. Then you just put the crosshair on target and bombs in the pickle barrel.
[/Slight Hijack]
Manual calibration will correct for wind drift as you described but the calibration is only good if you keep on that course. If you change course to line up a hanger -- something bombers tend to do just before they drop -- the head and cross wind components change and the calibration will be off. How far off will depend on the height of the drop, strength of the wind, and the amount of course change after calibration.
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Manual calibration is used in SEA for our events and not in the MA's. Going offline and setting up the arena for wind altitudes and directions, fuel burn if necessary, plus the manual calibration is up to the individual pilots to practice. Not many players have the time to go through all that in practicing for those bomber missions.
Maybe HTC can set-up a seperate arena for manual calibration with winds and fuel burn for the MA's? This would allow for players to have great oppurtunities to practice bombing and bomber interception.
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Maybe HTC can set-up a seperate arena for manual calibration with winds and fuel burn for the MA's? This would allow for players to have great oppurtunities to practice bombing and bomber interception.
I've set up manual calibration both with and without the CCIP enabled for practice in the TA. Any of the Trainers can set it up for you, just ask.
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Honest. One of our newer members was flying last FSO. And on squad vox he said: "You know, in WWII icons were set at only 2K." We just fell about the place. :airplane: I appreciate the debate on both sides. You are passionate about your hobby. Please don't be critical of the CM's. As HTC puts it: "The squirrels with cameras are there for your protection." Admins are strange people. The builders spend hours setting up FSO. But the Admins spend WEEKS or months researching and writing the event. They truly dwell on the small details. Oh, and any of you guys want an MA standard in FSO?????? Pfffftttt! I'll just bump that ack up to 1.0 and watch the boards light up! I didn't even get to fly but, it was fun watching you guys! ~~~ Snake
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Dot, it's been established that 6K icons generally represents what human eyes can see then (and now) while flying around with 20/20 vision. So by FSO chopping that down to 3.0 it's already arbitrarily shorter just for difficulty's sake. Putting icons at 6k would not change the battles as much as level the playing field, let people SEE the enemy and then decide how to react.
Ghost:
Just some players don't realize that at times I and other CMs will go no, after discussing with them and doing research that we believe show this is a local issue or an issue that only affected a small minority of players.
Is that directed at me, or the other posts that popped up after I posted?
Wind is one thing. I'm specifically talking about WIND AT GROUND LEVEL. It affects the entire arena. It's not a minority. I've on more than one occasion seen entire flights wipe out when landing, taxiing, taking off.
Need I link you to the mass CV crash video I put up on YouTube a while back?
Wind at ground level, JUST at ground level, should never ever be turned on. You want to have it on at other alts, getting worse as you go up that's something I can agree with.
But ground level = wrong, and always has been.
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We know your talking about wind at ground level. I gathered that from your post. You have your opinion and thats fine. You have the right to express your criticism and I think you have covered it. Its not shared by me and its not shared by other posters on this thread. In the three frames of the event in question you were the only player to make any comment on it on channel, or make any post to the BBS complaining about it.
I saw no evidence during the frames or in the logs that there was any problem with it. The setup CM also saw no problems with it. You keep talking about some other SEA event that happened in the past, with no details as to what the settings were and somehow tying them in with the last FSO. Apples and oranges. In any case my points re the setting have been made in my 1st reply and I wont repeat them. You did not reply at all to my 1st post and if you dont want to converse with me about it thats your perogative too.
Regards.
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That's a fairly false assumption. Most people DON'T post on this forum. Most FSOs you don't even get positive comments let alone people griping. Why? Because they don't visit the forums, or they don't think you listen/care (which, apparently NOT).
That doesn't negate the effect IN-GAME. Logs don't show when wind makes a plane rip a wingtip off after a perfectly safe landing, or when you swap ends, or shear your gear off.
You can't tell this from the logs.
I know for a fact it's a very real issue, as do the USMC/71 Sqn. You know what? They don't post about it. Maybe they feel nobody will respond other than to call them a crybaby (which Ghost pretty much did to me earlier in this post, and you are doing now). Maybe they just don't post about it because they're too busy. They only have time to log in, gripe on range about wind settings (which, FYI, also not visible in logs) then log back in next week.
Your post-facto justification is an attempt to marginalize my opinion just because you don't agree with me.
Well, gee, I don't see anybody chiming in that the LCG is bad for FSO, but it's disabled. Some things are self evident. Some things you can get away with until folks VOICE an opinion (like I am doing, as you note). That doesn't mean they are alone and it doesn't mean that you're right because you never noticed until now.
P.S. I've raised this issue many times and said many times something to the effect of "whoever set ground wind ought never set up another FSO" for years. It's been an issue for a long long time. You don't use it every setup, naturally, but every time it is used, it doesn't work right.
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Be as accusatory as you like. I dont agree with your opinion on the wind at 5 mph at ground level as stated and detailed in your posts.
Regards.
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Krusty I already made a request that you post relevant threads and material in regards to the wind discussion.
Please post the relevant threads where others have complained about this before and provide screen shots of how wind have screwed other events as you claim so a logical discussion can occur of whether it is indeed a widespread problem or not. Right now from the responses in this thread from other players you are in the minority.
Post a link to the threads, the screen shots, the videos, etc. and cite the FSO it happened in please.
As I cited in THIS thread you are in the minority of people complaining about wind in THIS thread. Your argument that the vast silent majority agree with you is unprovable. Just as it is unprovable the the vast silent majority do not have an issue with wind. CMs can only make judgements and evaluations based on actually feedback provided not on supposition.
Currently the CMs receive feedback on the forums, PMs, in game communication, and by email. The squad contacts for every squad do indeed PM and email us with feedback (quite pointed at times) when things do screw or are not to their or their squads liking. On the issue of wind at take off in THIS thread you are in the minority. In regards to feedback sent to the CMs over this issue via PM or email from various squads command staff we haven't received any.
So you claim the SILENT majority back you. However, they might not. The SILENT majority might not agree with you. There is no way to determine who they think outside of posting on the forums, PMs, emails, and their squad contacts relaying feedback from their squad to the designer.
Did I call you a cry baby? No I did not. Please don't try to justify your position by claiming that I denigrated you.
What I did say was many players give us feedback based on their experience. Their experience is valid but many times it is not the experience of the majority. It is the job of the CMs involved to figure out if it was a localized issue or actually an event wide issue.
This is again why I asked that you post links to the relevant threads, screen shots, videos, etc. and delineate from which FSOs these happened during.
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Currently for 2010 there has only been ground level wind (5mph) for the 11/10 FSO and the 2/10 FSO. So for 2010 it has only been used 2 out of 12 times.
Outside of that you also had winds used in the 1/10, 4/10, 5/10 and 6/10 FSO at various alts but not at ground level (although I am double checking on Operation Panzerfaust, Breaking Gustav 1944 and Rangoon Sunrise because its write up just says "Wind speed will vary with altitude and frame. See Objectives").
I am checking 2009 and earlier write up current to see what their wind settings were.
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From the scenario point of view, wind is not set at ground level when one condition is met. LVTs spawning from fleets.
The wind moves the LVTs just enough so that they don't start. Wind isn't always used down at ground level, but Krusty mentioned Scenarios not using it and I wanted to make absolutely sure you all understand why it was not used down low. I don't recall ever disabling wind at the ground specifically due to the planes not taking off and landing correctly. It was deliberately set higher than "mild" during Coral Sea to require turning the fleet into the wind to launch and recover planes. Wind strength does come up in design and we have said not too high, planes can't land, but again, I don't recall ever saying "Off" because a few planes can't land.
Cross winds happen. There is a difference between a problem and an inconvenience. If a setting takes out a large amount of people, that is a problem. If a few have a problem, that's an inconvenience. Some people have a problem landing on a moving Carrier without any wind at all, most people don't. Do we not use Carriers because it's inconvenient for a few? No, that would just be ridiculous. Don't expect a design to change so that a few people are not inconvenienced. That sets a precedent that is unachievable. Events designed so that No One is inconvenienced is an impossible goal to strive for. Comments are considered, but the suggestions are not always adopted.
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The 5 mph wind at deck level wasnt an issue for us. But if it had been its a simple thing to correct. Turn the CV into the wind take-off problem solved. On rtb have someone turn CV into the wind problem solved :D
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Enable Auto Pilot for takeoff. NP.