Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: cactuskooler on November 27, 2010, 01:26:01 PM
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I know the P-51s are full. I wonder if HTC can't be persuaded to add it, or another 7th FC P-51, considering the imminent addition of the B-29. Right now there's no appropriate P-51 skin to use for a VLR B-29 escort mission, and there's sure to be some Japan escort special events and MA missions.
There's a few minor things I'm going change/add, but this is mostly what the final product will look like.
Thanks to Guppy35 for providing the research end of things.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/ahss10copy-1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/ahss12copy-1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/ahss13copy.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/ahss14copy.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/ahss16copy.jpg)
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wow i like and far superior to some the skins we have
need fencers 39th fs pony to
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Thats a really nice skin. :aok I had mocked one up of her a couple years ago but never did anything further with it.
Take a look at some photos relative to the wings and the amount of panel lines visable and the wing color. I suggest www.airliners.net for a good start location. The wings should have a painted appearance.
Do you have the photos of Enchantress showing the left side close up?
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beautiful, that would be my primary skin.
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Whoa Doctor! What a beauty! Beautiful natural aluminum and lots of great detail and weathering. Absolutely masterful job, Cactus. I want!
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:O
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What can we do to get rid of some of the really old and stale pony skins in favor o some of these new and improved ones?
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edit: charges dropped! hes good!
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Take a look at some photos relative to the wings and the amount of panel lines visable and the wing color. I suggest www.airliners.net for a good start location. The wings should have a painted appearance.
I knew you were going to bring that up. :)
I did have it skinned more like you suggest, but it slowly morphed into what it is now. I agree though it should probably be changed a bit.
I'm a little hesitant to reference modern day warbirds for this type of detail. All the pictures of wing tops on Iwo Mustangs I've seen look a bit haggard. I think most of the panel lines are somewhat visible, and not just the gun bays.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/P51_Over_Iwo_PM.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/iwoai.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/45thFtrSq15thFG.jpg)
You can even see some in these lousy cell photos I was fortunate enough to take.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Chico%202010/0925001451.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Chico%202010/0925001454.jpg)
But yeah I'll change them. It's somewhat moot though considering the likelihood of it ever leaving my HD.
Do you have the photos of Enchantress showing the left side close up?
Yeah there's a nice close up photo of the left side. Dan provided it and I didn't know whether he wanted it posted publicly. He'll probably stroll around these parts later and can post it if he wants.
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hmm
anything else you want to say about this skin and where it came from?
not surprising though. all the files just sitting there on the ftp server might as well use the detail layers and pass it off as your own work.
I'm sorry but everything here was skinned by myself or borrowed from the default skin. I haven't a clue where one could find something like you suggest. If there's a specific issue you have, I'd be happy to refute it. If anything an accusation like that is a nice compliment.
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backhanded compliment it turns out.
good work!
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The best view of the nose art on The Enchantress
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/The-Enchantress.jpg)
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Cactus I have another view of that side if you need it.
Also remember that whatever you do to the wings, the flaps are bare metal.
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I think the photo Dan posted covers most of it, but I wouldn't mind seeing another photo if you have it handy.
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I want to see it too! Had a quick run through VLR Mustang Units of the Pacific but didn't see it. I'd love to see another of The Enchantress. :aok
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wow i like and far superior to some the skins we have
need fencers 39th fs pony to
But not my B, right TB? RIGHT? BAH! :lol
She's a beaut Cactus.... Simply gorgeous. I'd love to somehow see it in game. :salute
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(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/jbjp51/457th_fs_528_cory12.jpg)
:salute
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(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/jbjp51/457th_fs_528_cory12.jpg)
:salute
Thats the one, thanks for saving me finding it again!
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Now that it was posted, I know I've seen it before, but I can't for the life of me remember where? Was that online or in a book?
It does confirm the serial. I spent a heckuva lot of time on that bird when I was doing those 506th profiles :)
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Awesome skin! :aok
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Thanks for the pic. :aok
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We need a drool smiley.
Nice job cactus, as usual. I hope it gets put in game! :rock
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Thanks for the pic. :aok
welcome
at this time it, with a solid tail, it should have dual antennas behind the cockpit. there should be a small access port on the left side below the antenna and the green is alittlle bright. It would also look :cool: with a striped tail.
:salute
Now that it was posted, I know I've seen it before, but I can't for the life of me remember where? Was that online or in a book?
Actually it maybe the same place you got the other photo. You posted some nice shots in this thread.
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21788 (http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21788)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/p-51544vlr2.jpg?t=1291080113)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1927383/p_51_mustang/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1927383/p_51_mustang/)
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Yeah that was were I saw it at and DLed it.
Cactus, are you going to put the dive markings on the wings?
Check out the thread the Megalodon posted above for info on them.
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My gawd that is beautiful Cactus. :O
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welcome
at this time it, with a solid tail, it should have dual antennas behind the cockpit. there should be a small access port on the left side below the antenna and the green is alittlle bright. It would also look :cool: with a striped tail.
:salute
Actually it maybe the same place you got the other photo. You posted some nice shots in this thread.
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21788 (http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21788)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/p-51544vlr2.jpg?t=1291080113)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1927383/p_51_mustang/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1927383/p_51_mustang/)
Jeez that was a while ago. Jim Beasley ended up selling that 51 so the Enchantress isn't going to be, as of now anyway. I got the photo I posted from John Benbow, who is the nephew of the John Benbow who was killed with the 506th. He's the unofficial historian for the 506th FG Association. I did a bunch of profiles for him way back when. He sent me a CD full of photos he'd collected from the vet ground crew and pilots.
As for the striped tail. It's been a topic of debate for a while. The 457th had red striped tails prior to going to Iwo but apparently got them painted green just prior to leaving for Iwo. The best way to tell an Iwo shot from a pre Iwo shot is the antenna. The Iwo birds seem to all have the dual antenna while the pre Iwo birds still have the single antenna. Again, apparently a mod done just prior to going to Iwo
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LOL re-read the WIX thread. Forgot we were debating the stripes there too. Jim Beasley got that image from John Benbow via myself. He'd PM'd me about the profile I'd done and was considering doing his rebuild of Frenesi as The Enchantress. The 506th guys along with John Benbow and myself thought it was in the bag to get it done. Then he bought the Spit 18 and sold the Mustang. Ironically his Spit 18 was painted based on a profile I'd done for Peter Arnold who was helping with the paint scheme :)
Of course he still has Bald Eagle, his P51D. Must be rough!
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So ... thats a red stripped or green stripped 457th bird I posted! #544 has dual antennas
I way I heard it. the reason for the full tail was simply because it was to tedious to paint the stripes.. so they painted it solid.
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This skin far surpasses some of the current P51 skins in-game. What a beauty! Loving the high-quality of skins being put out as of late.
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So ... thats a red stripped or green stripped 457th bird I posted! #544 has dual antennas
I way I heard it. the reason for the full tail was simply because it was to tedious to paint the stripes.. so they painted it solid.
Good question.
I'm going on John Benbow's research into it because of his uncle. It became an issue because of the cover art on Osprey's "Japanese Army Air Forces Aces 1937-45" It depicts a Japanese ace in a Ki-100 shooting down John Benbow on July 16, 1945. In the artwork the tail is solid red which many people believed was how the 457th were painted. The pilots and ground crew that Mr. Benbow has gotten to know over the years say that is totally wrong, and that the red striped tails were repainted solid green to avoid any misidentification due to the red color prior to them going to Iwo. Clearly 544 has stripes, but whether that is taken while on Tinian or Iwo, I don't know. The video shows a hodgepodge of color 51s from the ETO to PTO.
The Osprey VLR Mustangs book references John Benbow's diary as the source of the time taken to paint the stripes and change to solid for that reason
At this point, I'm of the opinion, based on the photo evidence and Mr. Benbow's research that the 457th had solid green by the time they got to Iwo. The 458th had the striped blue and the 462nd had the solid yellow.
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Thanks for the posts fellas.
welcome
at this time it, with a solid tail, it should have dual antennas behind the cockpit. there should be a small access port on the left side below the antenna and the green is alittlle bright. It would also look :cool: with a striped tail.
:salute
I saw the pics of that panel in the thread you linked and I'll add it. Yeah the green's a bit intense. I noticed that after I took the screenshots naturally and already changed it.
Cactus, are you going to put the dive markings on the wings?
Check out the thread the Megalodon posted above for info on them.
Forgive my Mustang ignorance, I didn't realize this plane would have had them. They'll defiantly need to be added.
Here's one I found of 528 with the solid tail.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/506FGEnchantress1.jpg)
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Good question.
The video shows a hodgepodge of color 51s from the ETO to PTO.
The Osprey VLR Mustangs book references John Benbow's diary as the source of the time taken to paint the stripes and change to solid for that reason
At this point, I'm of the opinion, based on the photo evidence and Mr. Benbow's research that the 457th had solid green by the time they got to Iwo. .
Yes its a very good video... about 1:00 it shows what I think is P-51 #199 or 198 of the 47fs? flying along with 3 506th planes this is where I got #544.
I believe 47thFS was on Iwo in mid march, 506th didnt fly in till mid May.
A very good book, I have it aswell. It says....
"When the 506th FG arrived on Tinian
in late March 1945, the pilots and
crew chiefs immediately got busy
painting striped tail markings on
their new P-51s. The green stripes
of the 457th FS are visible on the
rudder of P-51 44-72599. The diary
of Capt John Benbow recorded how
it took three days to complete the
painting of his flight's Mustangs one
reason why the squadrons were
happy to convert to solid coloured
tails later on. ( Larry Dolanl)"
The 506th was on guam for a week then Tinian 7 weeks with a few flights.
I believe you could make a good case for a stripped 457th plane at Iwo at least the 1st month, anyhow maybe 1 of the skinners will do #550 "Madam Wham Dam" with dark blue striped tail. I think the stripped tails look good.
:cheers:
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Anyone know what the specific degree markings are for each of the lines?
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/h192f1socopy.jpg)
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Anyone know what the specific degree markings are for each of the lines?
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/h192f1socopy.jpg)
If you can't find the info, you can probably get pretty close on your own. I figure that the lines all converge on the pilots seat which gives you an anchor point, then look at where each mark hits the leading edge of the wing and I would imagine you could get pretty close.
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If you can't find the info, you can probably get pretty close on your own. I figure that the lines all converge on the pilots seat which gives you an anchor point, then look at where each mark hits the leading edge of the wing and I would imagine you could get pretty close.
I've already got the lines skinned. There's some markings on the end of the lines, which I'm assuming are numbers telling you how much of an angle you're diving at? I don't know what those are.
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Yes its a very good video... about 1:00 it shows what I think is P-51 #199 or 198 of the 47fs? flying along with 3 506th planes this is where I got #544.
I believe 47thFS was on Iwo in mid march, 506th didnt fly in till mid May.
A very good book, I have it aswell. It says....
"When the 506th FG arrived on Tinian
in late March 1945, the pilots and
crew chiefs immediately got busy
painting striped tail markings on
their new P-51s. The green stripes
of the 457th FS are visible on the
rudder of P-51 44-72599. The diary
of Capt John Benbow recorded how
it took three days to complete the
painting of his flight's Mustangs one
reason why the squadrons were
happy to convert to solid coloured
tails later on. ( Larry Dolanl)"
The 506th was on guam for a week then Tinian 7 weeks with a few flights.
I believe you could make a good case for a stripped 457th plane at Iwo at least the 1st month, anyhow maybe 1 of the skinners will do #550 "Madam Wham Dam" with dark blue striped tail. I think the stripped tails look good.
:cheers:
You could be right. I dug out the CD that John Benbow sent me way back when. It had the diary of his uncle transcribed. Didn't see any reference to time concerns, but it did note painting the stripes in the following three entries. No other mention of painting tails at all right up til his last entry.
Fri. April 20th
Stripped tails for spray painting all day.
Sat. April 21st
Two CAP missions in morning. Buzzed ground echelon both times – recognized “Skinhaid” Skiver. Stripped Willie’s plane in afternoon.
[Log entry: Buzzed ground echelon on boat.]
Sun. April 22nd
Plane stripping in morning. Went to Church with Willie. Very good sermon. Plane stripping in afternoon.
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Enchantress Trivia. Didn't realize I had some of this stuff from Mr. Benbow. He also has a copy of the letters sent home by the 457th Doc, Dr. Paprocki who is the guy sitting on the wing of "The Enchantress" A couple things that at least give a time line on the photo and when the plane got it's nose art. The nose art was on mid May 44, and the photo was taken prior to July 10, 1944.
"May 19,1945 – Today after the mission I had the boys happy and playful on beer and whiskey. I sure was a popular man. Muddy Watters was patting me on the back and announcing I was his pal. It helped to relieve the tension and emotional stress and strain.
Sweetheart, do you remember the pilot who went shopping with me for your black dance set? He has named his plane “The Enchantress” and has a picture of a “babe” in black sheer undies. Apparently many of the boys share my sentiments."
"July 10,1945 – Enclosed you’ll find the product of my developing, a bit overdeveloped. One picture is of the four members of our tent.
The second is one of the bomber girls, while the third is the plane Lieutenant Saks had and named The Enchantress.
He was the boy who went Christmas shopping with me. Note the “blackies.” Incidentally he used another’s plane on his fatal trip."
Lt. Saks was lost on the June 1st mission where the weather got so many 51 drivers that day.
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OK it's turned out to be a simple answer after wading through the 506th stuff again.
John Benbow's diary is referring to stripping the red stripes off the tail.
When the Mustangs of the 457th FS were loaded onto the USS Kalinin Bay for transport to the Pacific, they had red tails. This is the color scheme depicted in all of the history books. However, when the air echelon arrived on Tinian, the tails were stripped and repainted green. Stripping the tails was what took so long. As the April 20th entry says:
" Stripped tails for spray painting all day"
It was bothering me that there was no other mention of it in the diary in reference to Iwo, although on Iwo he spent a lot of time painting and staining the quonset huts and mentions it often.
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457th FS - This North American P-51 "Mustang" of the 506th Fighter Group crashed as it was taking off from field on Iwo Jima, Bonin Islands, for its first mission over Tokyo, Japan. Miraculously the pilot escaped fatal injury and was seen walking away from the wreck after someone pried open his canopy. Both wing tanks exploded and burned furiously for over an hour. Fire crews could do nothing to check the flames in the early stage of the explosion. 28 May 1945
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/457thonIwo510.jpg?t=1291188401)
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Just cause it's fun learning stuff and I've learned a lot tonight :)
They did a lot of flying on Guam and Tinian. Benbow's diary talks about whipping Corsairs, and Jugs. He also lost his best friend rat racing with Wildcats when his buddy lost it and crashed into the water.
Three photos of 540, Kwitchersqueaken. First two taken on Tinian after the twin antennas were installed but prior to the stripping of the striped tails April 20-22nd.
John Benbow and Bill Lawrence on 540. No mission markings seen, the name still looking fairly intact but the squadron badge already being worn away from the flying they've been doing
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/John--Bill-Lawrence.jpg)
Side shot of 540 on Tinian taken the same day. No mission markings showing, but clearly she's been flown
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Kwit.jpg)
540 on Iwo looking a bit worse for wear. Mission markings showing, the name a bit worn and the squadron badge all but gone.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/540-1.jpg)
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457th FS - This North American P-51 "Mustang" of the 506th Fighter Group crashed as it was taking off from field on Iwo Jima, Bonin Islands, for its first mission over Tokyo, Japan. Miraculously the pilot escaped fatal injury and was seen walking away from the wreck after someone pried open his canopy. Both wing tanks exploded and burned furiously for over an hour. Fire crews could do nothing to check the flames in the early stage of the explosion. 28 May 1945
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/457thonIwo510.jpg?t=1291188401)
I've seen that one too. Also seen it identified as Tinian. There was a crash on the 28th. Benbow mentions it in the diary saying it happened right in front of him. Pilot name Phil Alston. Walked away with a cut on his forehead. If that's his bird, it clearly wasn't modified with the twin antenna and obviously missed the paint stripping. Late arrival maybe. I'm hard pressed after re-reading Benbow, the Ops officer's diary about the stripping, not striping that they hadn't made the change prior to Iwo. If that's Alston's Iwo crash, then it's the exception.
I guess we can debate it forever. Not that you and i would ever do that :)
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Among the photos are a number like this of the 51s on Tinian. Single antenna, striped tails. Could be that 510 was out of commision during the time they modified them but it would be a bit surprising they'd send it out on the first run to Japan without the navigation aides of the other squadron birds.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Mustangs2.jpg)
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Anyone know what the specific degree markings are for each of the lines?
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/h192f1socopy.jpg)
they are 10 through 50 degrees
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.....Outstanding............. ............................. ............................. .................
(http://static.thestudentroom.co.uk/images/smilies/drool.gif)
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:aok
Personally I want the "Is this trip really necessary" skin :P
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:old: forgot about this one, lets recap
1. 457th 1st combat mission was May 28th... none off Tinian, caps's and practice. Why the 110 gal drop tanks? Practice burrning fuel? I think all 3 off those pics of Kwitchersqueakin were takin on Iwo. They wern't wipping jugs and corsairs with DT's on I'm sure. The 3rd pic was takin after <if it went on every single mission> June 27-July 3rd. Most likely in July.
2. Why were the 47th flying with the 457th <in stripes> when the 47th got to Iwo 2 months before the 457th? <Posted above>
3. April 22nd still painting stripes moved to Iwo May 12th. Less than a month <20days> they moved the whole squad to Iwo got settled and had repainted the tails?
The ground crew of the 506th was delivered to Iwo on April 25th. Bad weather and a hurricane late April and early May.
4. At what time does the diary mention painting the tails solid?
5. The 506th recieved UD antenna at Iwo.
6. The shots of 502 and 507 are on Tinian. As the ridge in the back ground is still there. Note the absense of DT's and UD antenna. as well
I don't think there's any debate :) the 457th had stripes on Iwo.
Edit: the filter changed the plane name to squeakin hehe
MarineUS
(http://7thfighter.com/gallery/NASM%20Photos/images/A42519.jpg)
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Not that this would be anything new, but we'll have to agree to disagree. :aok
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:O :aok :cheers:
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I request this skin be resubmitted to replace 2acg/10af by bh3841 or 2acg/1fs by machnix. machnix skins better than bh3841 and cactuskoolers is better than both of the others.
identical skins for the most part.
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p51d/skin12.jpg)
(http://www.netaces.org/skins/p51d/skin7.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/The%20Enchantress/ahss10copy-1.jpg)
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Agreed.