Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on November 30, 2010, 01:14:14 AM
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It looks like my kids fall under this. Who all have the same issue?
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modified, for fear of skuzzified
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Not knowing the same stuff as you is much different than not knowing anything. :aok
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"The only thing I know is that I know nothing." -Socrates
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i wish i could wake in the morning and think of nothing but Rainbows and Butterflies ;)
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this is golden for those who are control freaks and who can bend and manipulate information
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I could go on about this but I have found laughing at them makes me feel better and they then want to learn so I dont laugh at them again. It keeps it a bit light too, they dont feel under pressure as much if I'm going to laugh at them as they do when I lose my cool.
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having returned to university it saddens me to see that more than half of the kids in class can barely read and even less write a coherent paragraph.
... but they sure know how to program an ipod :P
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Ive been told Im in this Generation thing.....what is it?
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Ive been told Im in this Generation thing.....what is it?
Oh...it's nothing.. ya know. :)
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Oh...it's nothing ya know. :)
:rofl
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It looks like my kids fall under this. Who all have the same issue?
You have it wrong Oak, having raised 3 and now 40+ I have realized that it is I that has forgot soooooo much since I was a teenage "know everythig highly experienced never wrong" superhero :D
Now I'm content in the knowledge that as everyhour ticks away I lose more and more cerebral info and soon will be a vegetable! Where would we be without our pool of motivated :huh intellectual :huh teenage go-getters :huh ?
I do love them dearly, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to kick them in the face sometimes :devil
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We are all screwed, our future is full of fruit cakes that listen to justin bieber and hannah montana...
-BigBOBCH
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There are some good kids in my generation.
I think it's safe to say that the world will keep spinning even when the "know nothings" are in power.
Just remember who raised us :devil
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i would say it's the 80% know nothing Gen, there are alot of really great kids that have there futures planed out, but the others seem to be in this give me give me mentality, cellphones and Ipods as soon as they can talk and walk, heads stuck into MTV or Facebook, Myspace, instead of School work, would rather text there next door neighbor who's there best friend instead of just walking and having a Face to Face talk, i feel alot of parents have use electronics to teach there kids and babysit them or throw money at them instead of spending time with them and teaching them what they need to know
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They said the same thing about us 40 years ago.
Semp
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They said the same thing about us 40 years ago.
Semp
Difference is - now it's true!
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We are all screwed, our future is full of fruit cakes that listen to justin bieber and hannah montana...
-BigBOBCH
30 years prior:
We are all screwed, our future is full of fruit cakes that listen to Iron Maiden and Abba...
60 years prior to the top:
We are all screwed, our future is full of fruit cakes that listen to Johnny Cash and Elvis Presley...
90 Years prior to the top:
We are all screwed, our future is full of fruit cakes that listen to Roy Brown and Louis Armstrong...
As much as I detest Hannah Montana and Justin Bieber, there seems to be an interesting pattern.
-Penguin
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seriously, though, there are objective differences. The scores on SAT tests kept going down year by year, to the point that they reset the scale so it didn't look so bad. Then they redid the test.
US students score progressively lower on international achievement tests.
Even basic tasks - like figuring out what the best deal is at a store, or writing a simple letter -- students now flat out struggle. The number of kids needing remedial work before they can do college level work is also up.
On the bright side, it's much easier to look like a star -
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Know that not all of my generation is a complete waste of space and a horribly pieced together society of misfits. There are some out there, yes. Truth be told, I'm scared of what my generation will do, but the number of failures will not begin to subside until those who are supposed to take care of the youngguns actually take care of them. Morals and principles have been put by the wayside and saying someone isn't the brightest tool in the shed is grounds for a lawsuit. People want something for nothing and I think that is a heap of the problem. Be it the problem or not, we need a radical change in Washington to revive our tired and depressed country and bring about a renewed sense of national pride.
I hope I didn't just turn this into a thread of politics and hate. :uhoh
Yes, it was a very choppy and poorly put together paragraph.
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Keep complaining. We have to clean up your "genius" mess.
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But they constantly change the IQ scale as well, what 100 was years ago, would only be 90 today.
Although students struggle at certain things, they would probably run circles around you when i comes to computer systems, and a rapidly changing world. A kid can pick up a touch phone and quickly learn the phone and access tons of information on the internet. By yesterday's standards, they might be failing, but by tomorrow's standards, they might be right on track.
There are a lot of things I disagree with about today's youth, but I'm not naive enough to think that this belief is anything new.
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i would say it's the 80% know nothing Gen, there are alot of really great kids that have there futures planed out, but the others seem to be in this give me give me mentality, cellphones and Ipods as soon as they can talk and walk, heads stuck into MTV or Facebook, Myspace, instead of School work, would rather text there next door neighbor who's there best friend instead of just walking and having a Face to Face talk, i feel alot of parents have use electronics to teach there kids and babysit them or throw money at them instead of spending time with them and teaching them what they need to know
Perhaps it's because the older generation either fails, or lacks desire thereof, to teach the younger generation. I see too many parents these days letting their kids get away with everything. Not teaching the concepts of discipline and authority. I blame the parents for today's generation of kids.
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In Texas, the public schools don't teach math, they teach the TAKS test. Were not learning math, were learning how to take a test, same goes for all other core classes.
I'm pretty sure it's the same thing in other states aswell.
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Oh...it's nothing.. ya know. :)
:rofl :rofl you handled that hook well....touche :D
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Perhaps it's because the older generation either fails, or lacks desire thereof, to teach the younger generation. I see too many parents these days letting their kids get away with everything. Not teaching the concepts of discipline and authority. I blame the parents for today's generation of kids.
well its always a certain percentage the parents, as a parent you have to instill good morals and values, teach your kids respect and a good work ethic that they will carry thru life, that's all we can do as a Parent, I'm 50 with 2 sons ones 25 married owns his own house, same jobs sense he turned 18 hard worker great respectful young man, my other son is 17 in high school, doing good in his junior year but i find more distractions as far as tech wise stuff then we had when my older son was in high school, yes times change but parenting hasn't it's our jobs to do the best we can and hope we did good :aok
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We are all screwed, our future is full of fruit cakes that listen to justin bieber and hannah montana...
-BigBOBCH
And those that admit they like Harry Potter. :headscratch:
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A kid can pick up a touch phone and quickly learn the phone and access tons of information on the internet. By yesterday's standards, they might be failing, but by tomorrow's standards, they might be right on track.
The problem with that is... take that machine away from them and they're hopeless. I tutor freshmen in college and help/tutor my own teenage cousins and their friend with some of their stuff. I do see how they can google up almost anything in a snap but when you quiz them without the mighty G' they fail horribly.
Its almost as if electronics are replacing their long term memory. Perhaps in the future they WILL need to have RAM plugged into their cerebellum to be able to function :old:
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The problem with that is... take that machine away from them and they're hopeless. I tutor freshmen in college and help/tutor my own teenage cousins and their friend with some of their stuff. I do see how they can google up almost anything in a snap but when you quiz them without the mighty G' they fail horribly.
Its almost as if electronics are replacing their long term memory. Perhaps in the future they WILL need to have RAM plugged into their cerebellum to be able to function :old:
But over the last 60 years everyone has stopped learning how to hand wash clothes and now use washing machines. Over the last 100 years people have stopped learning how to ride horses because they can drive cars. Over the last 130 years people have stopped learning how to use Morse code because of the telephone and the internet. (Not that these skills don't still exist, but not as prevalent as before).
Why teach information that isn't relevant to the world of tomorrow? Don't get me wrong, I think the education system is relatively poor but teaching kids how to access information via the internet isn't such a bad thing. The world of tomorrow will continue to spread access to the internet across the world. The Dean of the School of Education at KU told me once that (paraphrasing here) there was no reason to spend time drilling facts and figures into kids heads when they can pull out their phone and access them in a matter of seconds. His focus was on teaching how to learn, and how to function in a changing world. The real world doesn't give you a multiple choice test, but when faced with something you don't know, you're going to head to the internet to find out, why is that such a bad thing?
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Perhaps it's because the older generation either fails, or lacks desire thereof, to teach the younger generation. I see too many parents these days letting their kids get away with everything. Not teaching the concepts of discipline and authority. I blame the parents for today's generation of kids.
You nail it on the spot. From what i been reading, Second-graders who can’t tie shoes or zip jackets. Four-year-olds in Pull-Ups diapers. Five-year-olds in strollers.
Teens and preteens befuddled by can openers and ice cube trays. College kids who’ve never done laundry, taken a bus alone or addressed an envelope.
In today world, both parents work full time, cellphone and computers are baby sitting the kids and we are not teaching thing that our parents tough us. Not saying all kids are like this, but a growing issue.
For example in a college class in a currently in. We where talking about the earth tilling on it axis. Most kids in the class did not believe that the earth dose that and a few really thought the sun moves. I told them about balancing a egg on it end in the summer and trying it again int he winter. I had one smart-ass argue with me that it was impossible to do it.
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In Texas, the public schools don't teach math, they teach the TAKS test. Were not learning math, were learning how to take a test, same goes for all other core classes.
I'm pretty sure it's the same thing in other states aswell.
Here in Kentucky, we actually LEARN the content, not just how to test on it.
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If we already knew everything how are we supposed to learn. Don't worry, kids will listen to even more bad music as we go into the future.
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I would love to say that I do not fit in here, but the sad thing is I do.
I, according to United States averages of intelligence am about 32 years old. I am literally half that age. But even at that measure there are guys on this board and in this world who I would sit down and listen to just for the sheer amount of fascination that is there.
Ranger and Deebs are two examples on the board, and guys at my local veterans hall (RSL here) and other people of note. Guys doing things most guys can't do at 20 years old for THAT MANY years and seen or done things that 95% of people never dream of.
I have seen jack shicze and know alot less, and I am one of the intelligent ones.
So it puts it in perspective.
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You nail it on the spot. From what i been reading, Second-graders who can’t tie shoes or zip jackets. Four-year-olds in Pull-Ups diapers. Five-year-olds in strollers.
Teens and preteens befuddled by can openers and ice cube trays. College kids who’ve never done laundry, taken a bus alone or addressed an envelope.
In today world, both parents work full time, cellphone and computers are baby sitting the kids and we are not teaching thing that our parents tough us. Not saying all kids are like this, but a growing issue.
For example in a college class in a currently in. We where talking about the earth tilling on it axis. Most kids in the class did not believe that the earth dose that and a few really thought the sun moves. I told them about balancing a egg on it end in the summer and trying it again int he winter. I had one smart-ass argue with me that it was impossible to do it.
I will differ slightly on the "parents work full time" thing. That's IF they have those jobs now. One thing these kids (my three sons included) are going to have a hard lesson in at this rate is survivial. Despite their good standing in school at present, and quite possibly doing well in whatever further education they choose if they so desire, there may not be any jobs for them no matter what they do. There are so many parallels to what lead up to the Great Depression, and this generation & the next seem so blind to it. It is too unpleasant and takes too much effort to even look it up on Youtube, let alone the encyclopedia, even just to see the same kind of events unfold.
This time, at least presently, there is no war to industrialize ourselves out of it.
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really thought the sun moves
Ermmm....it does. :aok (just kidding man, I know what you mean)
There are a lot of things I disagree with about today's youth, but I'm not naive enough to think that this belief is anything new.
This nails it. While I may personally dislike some of the facets and changes of the younger generation, (only 25 myself) there is absolutely nothing new about any of this. Think of how atrocious it would be for some of our grandparents (or some of the :old: folk here :) ) to imagine a world where most people cannot write in cursive. Turns out in the modern world, it is an antiquated and nearly useless skill.
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Hmm, as I fall into this "category" I will keep an eye on this for knowledges sake :aok Always better to keep your mouth shut and hopefully find a good post about some intellectual aspects that these "old timers" may give. :salute
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I'm not sure that my generation is just outright dumb, some members are just severely lacking in common sense. :bolt:
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Well I'm going to throw a blanket amnesty to all of the young men posting in this thread. I don't always agree with you gents but had you not said at one point or another that you are teenagers I would have never known it.
I guess I got lucky with my kid. He's blowing through high school with straight A's, is polite, responsible, and emotionally mature. What's unfortunate in his life is that, due to my current custody arrangement, he's never been able to get a job. Nobody want to hire a young man that can only work every other week.
Now some of his friends that come to visit I can see the thoughts of 'we're doomed' being well founded. Not that they're bad kids but none of them can hold a job if they get it and they're generally sponging off of someone or making excuses as to why they can't get a job (umm sleeping all day and not looking for one until 4:00 pm), or why they don't clean up after themselves. They do okay around my house (Squid says they're scared of me) but I do have to stay somewhat on top of them.
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Ermmm....it does. :aok (just kidding man, I know what you mean)
This nails it. While I may personally dislike some of the facets and changes of the younger generation, (only 25 myself) there is absolutely nothing new about any of this. Think of how atrocious it would be for some of our grandparents (or some of the :old: folk here :) ) to imagine a world where most people cannot write in cursive. Turns out in the modern world, it is an antiquated and nearly useless skill.
They think that the sun moves around the earth. Really!
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They think that the sun moves around the earth. Really!
Oh I know. I was referring to the fact that our solar system is cruising about the galaxy at 483,000 mph. Then you've got the galaxy cruising about the universe as well. :aok http://www.astrosociety.org/education/publications/tnl/71/howfast.html
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But over the last 60 years everyone has stopped learning how to hand wash clothes and now use washing machines. Over the last 100 years people have stopped learning how to ride horses because they can drive cars. Over the last 130 years people have stopped learning how to use Morse code because of the telephone and the internet. (Not that these skills don't still exist, but not as prevalent as before).
Those are technological advances that improved previously used tools making them obsolete. My point is that using these electronics to replace the need to learn things (because the info is available with a click) is a whole different ball game. Take that electronic device away and they're screwed.
I see it all the time as I tutor college kids and even my own teenaged cousins and some of their friends. They can find the information mighty fast with a google search or a wikipedia click...they write their research essay (I force them to turn off their spellcheck just to watch them google the underlined red words in HOPES that by rote it sticks in their brains :P ) .... and a few days later I ask them about the very subject they wrote the paper on and get blank stares. The info just isnt on their heads, its on the internet...waiting for them to click it.
The Dean of the School of Education at KU told me once that (paraphrasing here) there was no reason to spend time drilling facts and figures into kids heads when they can pull out their phone and access them in a matter of seconds. His focus was on teaching how to learn, and how to function in a changing world.
I agree with that to a certain degree. Yes, they dont need to know the exact date when historical events happened but they should at least know they happened and roughly in what spot on a timeline/sequence of events it happened in. It is dumb to expect people to memorize inane equations but they should at least understand what is going on when they use them... and it is great that they know how to find that information and apply it in a dynamic environment. What I dont agree with is that things that are crucial such as basic mathematics (+,-,/,X), basic sciences (why boil water again?) and basic humanities (reading,writing, basic world history) are not being stored in their brains but on the internet. Without those foundations they merely become google zombies.
The real world doesn't give you a multiple choice test, but when faced with something you don't know, you're going to head to the internet to find out, why is that such a bad thing?
take their internet away and you'll see why. :t
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I guess I don't know who you are tutoring, but if they are in tutoring, aren't they the ones who need the tutoring?
I think we can find some middle ground here though. I'll use math as an example, there is so much math I have learned that is completely useless. However, there are plenty of things that I use every day. I can't tell you how useful the Pythagorean theorem has been for me. Teaching concepts and real world applications is more important than drilling something like inequalities into their heads. The amount of information we expect our students to learn today is so much more than what we expected in the 1800s, and with that we realize that students learn differently.
I have written many papers with a lot of help from Google, only to forget them the second I turn them in. It's not long term memory, but that's often because it's a topic I'll never care about or use again. I think there needs to be a reevaluation of what is important knowledge for our young children.
The one thing I really dislike about people my age is work ethic. Seems like there are a lot of kids my age who just don't know how to work.
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I would love to say that I do not fit in here, but the sad thing is I do.
I, according to United States averages of intelligence am about 32 years old. I am literally half that age.
You are 32 years old according to U.S. averages of intelligence? That doesn't make sense.
If you said you were 32 years old according to the average educated 32 year old U.S. citizen, that might make a little bit more sense, but still doesn't mean anything, since the average person is not very bright.
The human population will continue to get dumber and dumber since less educated, less intelligent, and less responsible humans will reproduce more often than intelligent, responsible humans. There is no darwinism anymore to weed out the bad genes. There are still many young intelligent people that become more valuable in each generation.
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The human populated will continue to get dumber and dumber
Sorry Grizz, too easy. :lol
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I think we can find some middle ground here though. I'll use math as an example, there is so much math I have learned that is completely useless.
Almost everything I have ever learned in mathmatics I have used in real life including high level calculus and diff eq.
If you don't believe try me and I will attempt to give you a real life application.
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Sorry Grizz, too easy. :lol
No time to edit!! lol
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You are 32 years old according to U.S. averages of intelligence? That doesn't make sense.
If you said you were 32 years old according to the average educated 32 year old U.S. citizen, that might make a little bit more sense, but still doesn't mean anything, since the average person is not very bright.
The human population will continue to get dumber and dumber since less educated, less intelligent, and less responsible humans will reproduce more often than intelligent, responsible humans. There is no darwinism anymore to weed out the bad genes. There are still many young intelligent people that become more valuable in each generation.
See the first five minutes of Idiocracy. Sad but pretty close to true
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Almost everything I have ever learned in mathmatics I have used in real life including high level calculus and diff eq.
If you don't believe try me and I will attempt to give you a real life application.
what do you do?
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The human population will continue to get dumber and dumber since less educated, less intelligent, and less responsible humans will reproduce more often than intelligent, responsible humans. There is no darwinism anymore to weed out the bad genes. There are still many young intelligent people that become more valuable in each generation.
BRAWNDO... It's got electrolytes!
(http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/tallskinnykiwi/brawndo01.gif)
(http://media.sbs.com.au/films/upload_media/site_28_rand_1066480751_idiocracy_maxed.jpg)
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Anyone who seriously suggests that its the kid's fault is an idiot. Its the parent's fault. Its the fault of insufficient school funding. But kids are born no worse or better than any previous generation, its their experiences after they are born that shape them. And the responsibility for giving them the best shaping experiences falls squarely on those are now blaming the kids. Hypocrisy at its worst. You call them the "know-nothing generation", they call you the "teach-nothing generation".
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what do you do?
I'm a math teacher.
JK lol.
structural eit and grad student.
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I'm a math teacher.
JK lol.
structural eit and grad student.
my pick was a math teacher, engineer, chemist, or accountant.
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Let me get this straight... The older generations have seen fit to reduce the learning objectives of the younger generation to factoids (SAT jeopardy tests--especially the subject tests), and the older generations are upset the kids use google?
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I always thought that math was stupid and useless past basic functions until I got to calculus.
'Ohhhh.... THAT's why we learned all of that stuff'
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Blame Mtv. :banana:
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I must agree with SAT Jeopardy- it makes no sense at all to do it this way. For instance, let's say that I want to be a doctor in the ICU- will knowing what the xylem of a tree help me there?
How about a question like this (multiple choice):
A young man who has suffered a relatively minor gash in his thigh is rolled in- he's bleeding out. However, this accident has occurred eight hours ago, and the head nurse is nowhere to be found. You are suddenly placed in command of the unit. As you ponder what to do- a nurse comes to you and says that the man is on the last blood bag which can be scavenged. With no time left, and the man's life on the line, you must make the correct diagnosis and administer the correct treatment:
Does the man suffer from:
A.) Hemophilia
B.) A deeper gash than expected
C.) A blood clot being loosened
D.) Hypertension
You scream out the answer, but now, what will you do with him?
A.) Give him some morphine, and let him bleed out
B.) Tourniquet above the area
C.) An injection of Zyntha
D.) An injection of Warfarin
This is a way to test real skills in real situations. Not just what a xylem of a tree is.
-Penguin
Answer Key
Number 1: A
Number 2: C
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School =/= vocational training.
School is to build a basic understanding of the world around you- math, science, history/geography and English. It's not to teach you how to do your job, that's what college is for.
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I must agree with SAT Jeopardy- it makes no sense at all to do it this way. For instance, let's say that I want to be a doctor in the ICU- will knowing what the xylem of a tree help me there?
How about a question like this (multiple choice):
A young man who has suffered a relatively minor gash in his thigh is rolled in- he's bleeding out. However, this accident has occurred eight hours ago, and the head nurse is nowhere to be found. You are suddenly placed in command of the unit. As you ponder what to do- a nurse comes to you and says that the man is on the last blood bag which can be scavenged. With no time left, and the man's life on the line, you must make the correct diagnosis and administer the correct treatment:
Does the man suffer from:
A.) Hemophilia
B.) A deeper gash than expected
C.) A blood clot being loosened
D.) Hypertension
You scream out the answer, but now, what will you do with him?
A.) Give him some morphine, and let him bleed out
B.) Tourniquet above the area
C.) An injection of Zyntha
D.) An injection of Warfarin
This is a way to test real skills in real situations. Not just what a xylem of a tree is.
-Penguin
Answer Key
Number 1: A
Number 2: C
It is important to i.d. xylem and phloem.
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School =/= vocational training.
School is to build a basic understanding of the world around you- math, science, history/geography and English. It's not to teach you how to do your job, that's what college is for.
Thought I made it obvious... :rolleyes: What school would teach this?
-Penguin
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Thought I made it obvious... :rolleyes: What school would teach this?
-Penguin
Well, SAT's are a test of what you've learned through school, so logically...
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Well, SAT's are a test of what you've learned through school, so logically...
True, perhaps I responded incorrectly.
-Penguin
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I want to be a pilot, but for some reason I still need to be able to identify flagellates and ciliophora.
Pffffffffffffffft
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I'm a firm believer that you should have a firm, basic understanding of the world around you.
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You are 32 years old according to U.S. averages of intelligence? That doesn't make sense.
If you said you were 32 years old according to the average educated 32 year old U.S. citizen, that might make a little bit more sense, but still doesn't mean anything, since the average person is not very bright.
The human population will continue to get dumber and dumber since less educated, less intelligent, and less responsible humans will reproduce more often than intelligent, responsible humans. There is no darwinism anymore to weed out the bad genes. There are still many young intelligent people that become more valuable in each generation.
He misspoke, they told him his intelligence was 32 and he didn't realize they were talking IQ.
:neener:
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BRAWNDO... It's got electrolytes!
(http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/tallskinnykiwi/brawndo01.gif)
(http://media.sbs.com.au/films/upload_media/site_28_rand_1066480751_idiocracy_maxed.jpg)
Bad movie, excellent concept.
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All I keep hearing in my head as I read this thread is "back in my day!"
Now where's the 20 foot snow drift for me to walk through, barefoot, uphill for miles...and like it!
Kids depend on their parents and the adults to teach em. If the kids are failing it's on the grown ups. I don't for a second believe the kids are failing however. Pretty darn proud of mine actually.
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I caught my 11 yr old the other night cussing while playing on XBox live. I made my other kid clean the toilet for the same thing so how it was his turn. Of coarse he puffed up and whined about it the whole time.
After he was finished I made him sit down on the couch for awhile and he preceded to tell me that he is 11 years old and should be able to cuss if he wants to. :confused:
I promptly lifted my arm up showing him my arm pit. I said, "you see that? When your arm pit looks hairy like that and I'm not paying your internet bill you can do and say want you want." We understand each other a bit better now I think. ;)
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Its scary, but our folks thought the same of us. And look how we %$#@ed it up!
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I caught my 11 yr old the other night cussing while playing on XBox live. I made my other kid clean the toilet for the same thing so how it was his turn. Of coarse he puffed up and whined about it the whole time.
After he was finished I made him sit down on the couch for awhile and he preceded to tell me that he is 11 years old and should be able to cuss if he wants to. :confused:
I promptly lifted my arm up showing him my arm pit. I said, "you see that? When your arm pit looks hairy like that and I'm not paying your internet bill you can do and say want you want." We understand each other a bit better now I think. ;)
:huh :rofl :aok
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I thought I knew something, maybe a few things.
My teenager corrected me.
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I caught my 11 yr old the other night cussing while playing on XBox live. I made my other kid clean the toilet for the same thing so how it was his turn. Of coarse he puffed up and whined about it the whole time.
After he was finished I made him sit down on the couch for awhile and he preceded to tell me that he is 11 years old and should be able to cuss if he wants to. :confused:
I promptly lifted my arm up showing him my arm pit. I said, "you see that? When your arm pit looks hairy like that and I'm not paying your internet bill you can do and say want you want." We understand each other a bit better now I think. ;)
The reason you should take away his Xbox360 and Xboxlive, is so XboxLive won't be so full of cussing 11 year olds. And well handled. :cheers:
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Get off my damn lawn :old:
Damn kids and there flin flang xbox360, cussing like sailors downfall of the damn united states I tell you what. :old:
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I had a great talk with my brother-in-law today about the new generation of kids. We both agreed that after each generation, we get more "stupid" or "worse" than the previous one. However, our agreement on this hypothesis is due to our understanding of science, the Bible, and adaptation/evolution. I would love to discuss more of my thoughts about this, but I do not want to get PNGed. This discussion would be for another thread in another forum.
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Well, SAT's are a test of what you've learned through school, so logically...
They really aren't though. SAT's are a measure of how well you can study for a test (even if that test is on things you were supposed to learn in school). I guess that's worth something too (can you do something that you don't want to do?) but if you're looking for a way to judge legitimate knowledge, you'd better look for something else.
For about $3,000 and 6-8 hours a week for a month, I could bump your kids' score on a few tests up roughly 100-200 points, depending on how low they started and how much they wanted it. For about $300 and 3 hours or so every day, your kid could do the same him/herself. It's easier if you're rich, but not impossible if you're poor.
I think a problem we have is we make school more about chasing a grade or percentage or score more than we make it about getting an education. If your kid is bright enough and determined enough, and has an idea of what is going to be on the final, he can skip the entire semester and walk in and ace the final. He's also going to miss out on a lot by doing it.
Just think back to your own college. Did you learn more by studying for a test, or researching and writing a paper, or preparing a debate?
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They really aren't though. SAT's are a measure of how well you can study for a test (even if that test is on things you were supposed to learn in school). I guess that's worth something too (can you do something that you don't want to do?) but if you're looking for a way to judge legitimate knowledge, you'd better look for something else.
For about $3,000 and 6-8 hours a week for a month, I could bump your kids' score on a few tests up roughly 100-200 points, depending on how low they started and how much they wanted it. For about $300 and 3 hours or so every day, your kid could do the same him/herself. It's easier if you're rich, but not impossible if you're poor.
I think a problem we have is we make school more about chasing a grade or percentage or score more than we make it about getting an education. If your kid is bright enough and determined enough, and has an idea of what is going to be on the final, he can skip the entire semester and walk in and ace the final. He's also going to miss out on a lot by doing it.
Just think back to your own college. Did you learn more by studying for a test, or researching and writing a paper, or preparing a debate?
There is definitely an effort factor in the SAT and I don't see anything wrong with that. If a student is committed enough to prepare hard for a standardized test and does well on it, his score not only reflects his intelligence, but it also reflects his work ethic and committment to going to a good university. Universities want to see that.
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Perhaps in the future they WILL need to have RAM plugged into their cerebellum to be able to function :old:
RAM is what they have. What they need is a reliable harddrive for permanent storage :D
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There is definitely an effort factor in the SAT and I don't see anything wrong with that. If a student is committed enough to prepare hard for a standardized test and does well on it, his score not only reflects his intelligence, but it also reflects his work ethic and committment to going to a good university. Universities want to see that.
However, performance on a test doesn't necessarily reflect a person's intelligence or understanding of the content. There is a positive correlation I'm sure, but many are starting to believe it is no longer the best method for measuring students.
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LOL. In class today, we where talking about our final exam next week and weather depending. I made a remark that it is less likely we will get any snow at the rate we are going and the La Nina. A few kids look at me with a :huh. Had to explained to them what it is and El Nina. they never heard of them before.
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There is definitely an effort factor in the SAT and I don't see anything wrong with that. If a student is committed enough to prepare hard for a standardized test and does well on it, his score not only reflects his intelligence, but it also reflects his work ethic and committment to going to a good university. Universities want to see that.
That's true to an extent, but again, the required effort level decreases as funds available increase. It's just like anything else in life. Could you go to the library and teach yourself another language? Absolutely. Would it likely take considerably less time and effort if you hired someone to teach you Spanish? Absolutely.
The SATs are not a very reliable measure of anything other than whether or not you can learn how to take a test.
Even so, what would the alternative be? I can't think of a practical one.
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i wish i could wake in the morning and think of nothing but Rainbows and Butterflies ;)
You mean you don't?
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That's true to an extent, but again, the required effort level decreases as funds available increase. It's just like anything else in life. Could you go to the library and teach yourself another language? Absolutely. Would it likely take considerably less time and effort if you hired someone to teach you Spanish? Absolutely.
The SATs are not a very reliable measure of anything other than whether or not you can learn how to take a test.
Even so, what would the alternative be? I can't think of a practical one.
I think the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. No idiot can score a 1400+ on SAT no matter how hard he studies. And no genius will score less than a 1400 no matter how little he studies. Yes, preparation will improve your score a certain amount maybe within 200 points of what you would naturally score with your base high school education. And yes having money and better resources does give you an advantage, but that is life!
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Yes, preparation will improve your score a certain amount maybe within 200 points of what you would naturally score with your base high school education.
I disagree to some extent, the SAT tests what you know, intelligence isn't about knowing its about your ability to learn. That being said, sure if everyone was exposed to the exact same education and experiences from day one, then sure, the SAT would test how much you were able to absorb. The reality of it is though all schools are not equal, not all schools teach exact same stuff, & not all schools focus on students acing the SAT test.
Back when I took the SAT, 1600 was the max, and was broken into effectively 3 sections, one that was basically analogies, one that tested basic reading comprehension and graph analyzing skills, one that tested basic math skills. If you went to a school that exposed you to and practiced these skills, then you did well, but many poor schools will almost pass kids through without teaching them these basic skills. So, although they may have the potential to learn, they were not given the same opportunity over 13 year period (counting kindergarten), and thus are grossly inept for the SAT test.
Rather I would argue that the SAT test, tests if you have learned the right things to have the potential to succeed in a traditional university.
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You do make a good point, Ardy, about the schools. In my opinion, parents are somewhat to blame when it comes to my generation's ineptitude, whether it be because they both have to work all the time or be it just plain incompetence or even apathy, but the lack of quality public schools is another big reason. I can count on one hand the amount of teachers I had that seemed to actually give a damn about their students, and most of my schooling was in fairly wealthy neighborhoods.
How to fix this? Complete public education overhaul, kill the teacher's unions, take all these mindless reality shows off the air - especially on the friggin history channel, no more pop music, no more tech gadgets waved in our faces constantly to distract us from the world collapsing around us, oh, and you need a license to have a kid. :devil
I'm not entirely serious, of course. But this issue is way more complex than a lot of people think. And you can't change the world overnight.
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At least I go to a private school. :banana:
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At least I go to a private school. :banana:
You will still have to take the SATs to get into a college
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At least I go to a private school. :banana:
And...?
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And...?
He's speshul
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You will still have to take the SATs to get into a college
I know that.
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He's speshul
I'm not special, I just think that it's a better education opportunity. And It's not one of those snobby rich-kid private school.
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oppertunity.
Clearly.
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I would love to say that I do not fit in here, but the sad thing is I do.
I, according to United States averages of intelligence am about 32 years old. I am literally half that age. But even at that measure there are guys on this board and in this world who I would sit down and listen to just for the sheer amount of fascination that is there.
Ranger and Deebs are two examples on the board, and guys at my local veterans hall (RSL here) and other people of note. Guys doing things most guys can't do at 20 years old for THAT MANY years and seen or done things that 95% of people never dream of.
I have seen jack shicze and know alot less, and I am one of the intelligent ones.
So it puts it in perspective.
Somebody listens to my ol' stories? Well I'll be darned. :o
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Clearly.
oops.