Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: dirt911 on December 06, 2010, 09:11:54 PM
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I believe it is time to review the perk price on the Firefly, after all we are only paying for a gun that almost never works correctly and when it does it's like shooting bb's at solid steel. As well as with the new "Panther Tank" coming the Firefly will be about the best candidate to fight the Panther (besides the Tiger or another Panther). I personally believe that the Firefly would be better off perked around 10-13.
Note: I asked around MA almost all of my country agreed.
:salute
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I believe it is time to review the perk price on the Firefly, after all we are only paying for a gun that almost never works correctly and when it does it's like shooting bb's at solid steel. As well as with the new "Panther Tank" coming the Firefly will be about the best candidate to fight the Panther (besides the Tiger or another Panther). I personally believe that the Firefly would be better off perked around 10-13.
Note: I asked around MA almost all of my country agreed.
:salute
10-13 it already is
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10-13 it already is
No it's not, you may not gv but I do and it is almost always sitting at 15-18 right now. I liked it better when the highest it ever got was around 11. :salute
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You do know it moves up and down as the number of people flying moves up and down too right?
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No it's not, you may not gv but I do and it is almost always sitting at 15-18 right now. I liked it better when the highest it ever got was around 11. :salute
Depends on numbers im a night latly and everything is cheap
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I'd like the firefly at 10. good gun but not perfect. and on a sherman that dies like no tomorrow...
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You do know it moves up and down as the number of people flying moves up and down too right?
Yeah it is called ENY.
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I have 5000 vehicle perks and know not what you speak.
Only up Tigers.
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im just curious with the 17 pdr, are you guys shooting it on the move? Because the firefly which was british didnot have gyros for the gun to be stable on the move unlike the american Sherman which had gyros in the turret.
if thats the reason why your saying the gun is not accurate.
but the perk price should be 10-13 1+
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I have 5000 vehicle perks and know not what you speak.
Only up Tigers.
What if I don't like Tigers, AGAIN the Panther is coming and the Firefly is a good choice to kill it.
And no I do not shoot on the move,shooting while moving is inaccurate and causes the angles to change making the gun Less/More effective.
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oh ok and just to also is anyone in the game actually using sherman platoon tactics in the game where its 3 sherman 75's and 1 firefly to a platoon. and is anyone making a skin for the firefly where the barrel is painted to look like 75mm sherman.
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No, no, I mean I only up Tigers, rereading it it did sound confusing................ I earn back the perk points with the Wirble. Point is, if you're a "tanker" only, you might have a problem, but if you just enjoy gv'ing (including AA) than the perk price shouldn't really be much of an issue. :salute
What if I don't like Tigers, AGAIN the Panther is coming and the Firefly is a good choice to kill it.
And no I do not shoot on the move,shooting while moving is inaccurate and causes the angles to change making the gun Less/More effective.
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No, no, I mean I only up Tigers, rereading it it did sound confusing................ I earn back the perk points with the Wirble. Point is, if you're a "tanker" only, you might have a problem, but if you just enjoy gv'ing (including AA) than the perk price shouldn't really be much of an issue. :salute
But is it really worth the price? I get what you are saying it makes perfect sense, just how many times do you actually see the ff now? I see it maybe once in a while in TT and that would be Me.
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Firefly was my main ride for about a year but I've honestly not upped at firefly since they increased the perks and made it easier to kill.. It's not worth the 15-20 perks it costs. i'd be real happy if it was returned back to the 5-8 it used to cost..
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I almost never use the Firefly after the perks went up. While it has a good gun that is about the end of it. It don't have the armor for a long range slugging match with a Tiger or the new Panther. I have been killed by a Panzer at long range for that matter. To me it is over perked for what you get. With the new Panther in the game your perks would be better spent on it.
The M-4/76 is a great tank at closer ranges. I can kill any tank in the game with it at the ranges most GV fights take place. I can even one shot kill the Panther from the front at short range.The M-4/76 has a speedy turret and loads very fast and the gun ain't bad. The best part is the 1 or 2 perks it cost. I would jump over the Firefly at 18 to 22 perks to use the M-4/76. You can lose 15 M-4/76s for the perk cost of one over priced Firefly.
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I almost never use the Firefly after the perks went up. While it has a good gun that is about the end of it. It don't have the armor for a long range slugging match with a Tiger or the new Panther. I have been killed by a Panzer at long range for that matter. To me it is over perked for what you get. With the new Panther in the game your perks would be better spent on it.
The M-4/76 is a great tank at closer ranges. I can kill any tank in the game with it at the ranges most GV fights take place. I can even one shot kill the Panther from the front at short range.The M-4/76 has a speedy turret and loads very fast and the gun ain't bad. The best part is the 1 or 2 perks it cost. I would jump over the Firefly at 18 to 22 perks to use the M-4/76. You can lose 15 M-4/76s for the perk cost of one over priced Firefly.
Over all, the M4A3(W) and its 76mm cannon is the best tank to use vs other tanks in the game... at ranges shorter than 2000 yards. The Tiger, Panther G, and T34x can in most cases shrug off rounds from the 76mm M1A1 L/53 cannon at the 2000 yard and longer ranges. But the extremely fast reload is a huge blessing because the second most important thing besides range is shots on target. Since the range threshold is grayed and not exact (remember that angle of projectile impact has a huge effect on the effectiveness of that round, most people forget that along with how important the engagement range is), 2000 yards is only a starting point.
I was in the dueling arena with a squad mate and he and I did all kind of experiments on ranges and impact angles with multiple tanks. FYI: the Panther G seemed to be able to shrug off most rounds continuously that hit the front hull from the Tiger, Firefly, T34/85mm, and M4A3 (W) at 2400 yards and further IF the Panther's front hull was 10-20 degrees off (not squared up) from the incoming rounds. Quite impressive.
Regarding the Firefly, it is best used defensively and at the longest of ranges possible. It has the best AP gun in the game in the 76mm 17lb'er, but the 2nd slowest reload rate (the slowest reloading tank gun is also the worst AP performing tank gun in the game, a double wammy for the T34/76mm).
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After hitting a M4-76 multiple times with a Firefly & then getting killed from said 76 from a single shot at 2.4k. Yeah I would revisit the perk price now that we have the Panther.
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No it's not, you may not gv but I do and it is almost always sitting at 15-18 right now. I liked it better when the highest it ever got was around 11. :salute
I liked it better when it was perked 5-8 when I first started this game :lol
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After hitting a M4-76 multiple times with a Firefly & then getting killed from said 76 from a single shot at 2.4k. Yeah I would revisit the perk price now that we have the Panther.
One little problem with the M476's gun, it couldn't do that from over 1100 yards out. I've heard accounts from sherman crew members that said the 76mm round would just bounce off anything from over 1100 out in distance. M476= the panzar killer, firefly=the tiger killer. 17 pounder at the time in WWII was about the most deadliest weapon against any tank. M476 vs firefly, firefly should be one shotting it, no joke. Don't know why M476's gun is so devastating... :headscratch:
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One little problem with the M476's gun, it couldn't do that from over 1100 yards out. I've heard accounts from sherman crew members that said the 76mm round would just bounce off anything from over 1100 out in distance. M476= the panzar killer, firefly=the tiger killer. 17 pounder at the time in WWII was about the most deadliest weapon against any tank. M476 vs firefly, firefly should be one shotting it, no joke. Don't know why M476's gun is so devastating... :headscratch:
M4 76 has has given me the blues of late in GV's. Position my self in t34/85 or Tiger get the firest shot in good clean hits at very close range less than 400 & nothing? Then the m4 76 turns shoots I am dead in 1 or 2 shots.
I even took up a M4-76 & drove it nose on to a tiger & he had 5 hits on me at 2.2k before my M4 was dead. I hit the Tiger as many as twice as much & got nothing & expected nothing because that seemed to me about right.
How ever the Tiger should have killed me 1ST shot?
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M4 76 has has given me the blues of late in GV's. Position my self in t34/85 or Tiger get the firest shot in good clean hits at very close range less than 400 & nothing? Then the m4 76 turns shoots I am dead in 1 or 2 shots.
I even took up a M4-76 & drove it nose on to a tiger & he had 5 hits on me at 2.2k before my M4 was dead. I hit the Tiger as many as twice as much & got nothing & expected nothing because that seemed to me about right.
How ever the Tiger should have killed me 1ST shot?
Yea exactly, some people forget how big the 88mm round was and how brutal it was. Even if the sherman does have sloped frontal armor, it's nothing compared to a T-34's armor. I've looked up a video up of sherman frontal armor, not exactly from the tank, but a replica of what was "supposed" to be on the front of the sherman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBp4eWqXfno Wait till about :50 for tiger's round and 2:00 for the impact.
Sure in the video it's a 75mm sherman tank, frontal armor what no different to the 76mm sherman. M476 has that wet storage affect thing or whatever it is, still it shouldn't be taking 88mm rounds to the front and living, that just screams out "ridiculously overmodeled". I mean I've been in the MA gv'ing, and the M4s' take 76mm rounds off each other like nothing, they don't turret or die until 3-4 rounds in the same spot later. And I've noticed the 76mm off the M4, it literally acts as if it's a tiger's round, what's up with that...! :huh
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After hitting a M4-76 multiple times with a Firefly & then getting killed from said 76 from a single shot at 2.4k.
I drive the Firefly exclusively and I agree that something is out of whack with the M4-76. I have not put my finger on it yet, but most of my kills tend to be close, with a few at much longer ranges. I have multiple times engaged M4-76's with the Firefly, got good hits in vital areas, and then return fire instantly kills me from the M4-76. Shouldn't the 17 lb just hammer the crap out of a M4-76? Something is off armor wise or gun wise on that tank. This will be my next research project. Interested in collaborating Lyric?
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I drive the Firefly exclusively and I agree that something is out of whack with the M4-76. I have not put my finger on it yet, but most of my kills tend to be close, with a few at much longer ranges. I have multiple times engaged M4-76's with the Firefly, got good hits in vital areas, and then return fire instantly kills me from the M4-76. Shouldn't the 17 lb just hammer the crap out of a M4-76? Something is off armor wise or gun wise on that tank. This will be my next research project. Interested in collaborating Lyric?
Sure?
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I drive the Firefly exclusively and I agree that something is out of whack with the M4-76. I have not put my finger on it yet, but most of my kills tend to be close, with a few at much longer ranges. I have multiple times engaged M4-76's with the Firefly, got good hits in vital areas, and then return fire instantly kills me from the M4-76. Shouldn't the 17 lb just hammer the crap out of a M4-76? Something is off armor wise or gun wise on that tank. This will be my next research project. Interested in collaborating Lyric?
That does sound strange. Remember that the 17pdr used several types of ammo, with APDS being the best. We don't know what ammo HTC has modeled in their Firefly.
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Even if the sherman does have sloped frontal armor, it's nothing compared to a T-34's armor.
You may want to re-check your facts.
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That does sound strange. Remember that the 17pdr used several types of ammo, with APDS being the best. We don't know what ammo HTC has modeled in their Firefly.
Standard AP round. Remember most of the specialized stuff was rare and issued in very small quantities. The standard 17lb'er AP projectile penetrated 151mm at 1000 yards and 129mm at 2000 yards. It is the best AP gun in AH.
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Standard AP round. Remember most of the specialized stuff was rare and issued in very small quantities. The standard 17lb'er AP projectile penetrated 151mm at 1000 yards and 129mm at 2000 yards. It is the best AP gun in AH.
Well, statistics can be deceiving, as the state for which they apply is often not specified. However, from the book "Sherman Firefly", by Hayward it specifies penetration of homogeneous armor at 30 degrees as follows ("...based on primary data from PRO documents listed in the bibliography...:
17pdr APC 111mm at 1000m and 87mm at 2000m
17pdr APCBC 124mm at 1000m and 108mm at 2000m
17pdr APDS 172mm at 1000m and 153mm at 2000m
Panther APCBC 100mm at 1000m and 89mm at 2000m
Tiger I APCBC 102mm at 1000m and 86mm at 2000m
Sherman 76 APC 89mm at 1000m and 74mm at 2000m
Perhaps HTC has provided APC ammo for our Firefly.
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I did a test with a squadie in the TA and I took the firefly out and got mixed results against the Tiger and the Panther. Results depened on angle to target and the aiming point on bot tanks. On the M4(76mm) I got kills everytime except once when I hit the turret and the round bounced off. However, in the MA it seems I get different results. The armor of he firefly is okay. Against the Tiger and Panther if either of them get a good hull shot on you, you can kiss your prettythang goodbye. I did notice some bounced shots off the turret and it was hard to figure out why when the shots were flush to the turret and were solid hits. But I guess the damage model has a lot to do with that. Hard to pin point it except say that all you can do is practice, practice, and practice your aiming points in all GV's.
BigKev
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17pdr APC 111mm at 1000m and 87mm at 2000m
Sherman 76 APC 89mm at 1000m and 74mm at 2000m
Perhaps HTC has provided APC ammo for our Firefly.
If they have APC modeled it explains this occurence some. The Firefly should penetrate around 15% more armor at 2000 yards. So does anybody know what type of AP round is modeled in AH for the Firefly?
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If they have APC modeled it explains this occurence some. The Firefly should penetrate around 15% more armor at 2000 yards. So does anybody know what type of AP round is modeled in AH for the Firefly?
No but I wish we did. And I think your assumption that it is APC is what we have in the game.
BigKev
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It is APCBC.
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It is APCBC.
You rock Pyro, thank you Sir!
:salute
Way
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It is APCBC.
Thanks for clarifying. :aok
For those who do not have viable sources to reference, the "armor-piercing capped ballistic cap" or APCBC, was the most common AP round used by the Firefly (according to one source anyways). :)
*new thread started in the WISH forums* :D
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Well, statistics can be deceiving, as the state for which they apply is often not specified. However, from the book "Sherman Firefly", by Hayward it specifies penetration of homogeneous armor at 30 degrees as follows ("...based on primary data from PRO documents listed in the bibliography...:
17pdr APC 111mm at 1000m and 87mm at 2000m
17pdr APCBC 124mm at 1000m and 108mm at 2000m
17pdr APDS 172mm at 1000m and 153mm at 2000m
Panther APCBC 100(111)mm at 1000m and 89mm at 2000m
Tiger I APCBC 102(100)mm at 1000m and 86(84)mm at 2000m
Sherman 76 APC 89mm at 1000m and 74mm at 2000m
Perhaps HTC has provided APC ammo for our Firefly.
My German tank source "encyclopedia of german tanks of WW2" showed slightly different penetration values for your Panther and Tiger1 APCBC values at 30 degrees, numbers in ( ). Not that it makes a huge difference in this discussion, just thought the L70 looked a bit low at 1k so checked my sources. I agree that the 17pdr should be more deadly then it is in this game.
:salute
BigRat
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My German tank source "encyclopedia of german tanks of WW2" showed slightly different penetration values for your Panther and Tiger1 APCBC values at 30 degrees, numbers in ( ). Not that it makes a huge difference in this discussion, just thought the L70 looked a bit low at 1k so checked my sources. I agree that the 17pdr should be more deadly then it is in this game.
:salute
BigRat
Remember that the armor penetration stats for AH are for the 0 degree armor. The stats are going to be different for 30 degrees. Pyro kindly pointed that out in a different thread. :D