Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on December 27, 2010, 02:45:51 AM
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I saw another comment in the wishlist forum suggesting the Spit XVI had maybe 5-6 total kills in the war. This has come up often and is not accurate.
To set the record straight using 403 Squadron RCAF as an example:
Transitioned to XVIs in early December. First sweep was December 8, 1944. The XVIs engaged 109s and shot down one. They continued to fly support ops during the Battle of the Bulge. Christmas day was memorable as the CO S/L Collier shot down a 262. Bodenplatte on New Years morning was the next big day for the 403 16s as they were just getting airborne as 30 109s and 190s were hitting the field. 4 403 pilots managed to shoot down 6 E/A without a loss. Spit 16s upping into a horde and coming out alive on the other end while taking the bad guys down. Sounds familiar :)
After Bodenplatte the LW was hard to find, and 403 did most of it's work flying ground attack in support of Allied ground forces. In the last two weeks of the war, 403 squadron claimed 12 E/A destroyed. The squadron lost one pilot in the process.
So basically it came down to this particular Spit 16 squadron destroying 20 E/A in air combat including a 262.
Consider that there were other squadrons operating the XVI as well and they too claimed kills in air combat.
So please don't used the argument that the Spit XVI didn't shoot anything down as part of the anti 16 talk. That would just not be true.
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anti 16 talk.
^ needs its own forum section
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seriously? who cares, we got it and it's fun to kill it. that's all. you cant change what other people think. or we wouldnt have lancstukas in the game.
semp
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seriously? who cares, we got it and it's fun to kill it. that's all. you cant change what other people think. or we wouldnt have lancstukas in the game.
semp
you think that, until your stuck in the DA with 40 ppl all flying in spit16s. totally ruins the atmosphere of fun in there.
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ban the Brewster then.263,262,p51 etc etc lol :old:
Can't say i have seen any more 16's then LA7, Spit 8 is a much better plane than 16 anyway :old:
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People seem to think that because 16 is a higher number than 14, that it was some late war uber ride.
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It's the roll rate of the 16 is what every body loves bout it! what else has a roll rate other than 190's? but thats all they can do! I like the spit I, but the roll rate sux's way more than the carb doe's!
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I saw another comment in the wishlist forum suggesting the Spit XVI had maybe 5-6 total kills in the war. This has come up often and is not accurate.
Nice info and all, but perhaps the best counter to the spit16-no-kills-crowd is to list how many air combat kills the Spitfire Mk.IX LFe claimed. Surely it ranks up in the many hundreds?
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It's the roll rate of the 16 is what every body loves bout it! what else has a roll rate other than 190's? but thats all they can do! I like the spit I, but the roll rate sux's way more than the carb doe's!
Not-so-much. The roll rate is only a little of the equation. The 16 can outturn most of the a/c ingame...notice I said most all you Brew, Zeke and F4U-1A guys. A 16 and 190 can "roll" around all they want to but in the end, the 16 will hammer it if the 190 tries to turn with it or slows down at alts that are in the 16's fight radius.
Changeup
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you think that, until your stuck in the DA with 40 ppl all flying in spit16s. totally ruins the atmosphere of fun in there.
Nobody gives two deuces about the DA and what planes fly in there :P
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It seems that the guys who complain about the Spit 16 are the same guys who fly the P-51D. If I'm not mistaken, the P-51 D was introduced very late in the war. As long as the P-51D stays in the game then the Spit 16 should stay.
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seriously? who cares, we got it and it's fun to kill it. that's all. you cant change what other people think. or we wouldnt have lancstukas in the game.
semp
Clearly someone cares as what was initially posted as an incorrect 'fact' is now one of those deals where folks are using it as truth. I don't fly 16s, but I hate when people get the history wrong :)
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Clearly someone cares as what was initially posted as an incorrect 'fact' is now one of those deals where folks are using it as truth. I don't fly 16s, but I hate when people get the history wrong :)
I don't fly 16's either but everytime I feel the whining has picked up I will fly it solid for a week or two and add fuel to the fire :P
Give them something more substantial to complain about :t
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who cares
+1
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It's the roll rate of the 16 is what every body loves bout it! what else has a roll rate other than 190's? but thats all they can do! I like the spit I, but the roll rate sux's way more than the carb doe's!
F4Us and even P-47s can roll pretty well also.
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F4Us and even P-47s can roll pretty well also.
Brewster :old:
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you think that, until your stuck in the DA with 40 ppl all flying in spit16s. totally ruins the atmosphere of fun in there.
It's not the planes that make it that way.
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This information should be in the training forum. :neener:
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This information should be in the training forum. :neener:
No. It should go into the "Holier Than Thou, I'm So Great, Let Me Look Down My Shnoz at You Because You Said Something Wrong About Airplanes Forum" :D :neener:
But since that is a private forum and only a very few ppl on the boards have access to it, he posted it here for maximum exposure.
Also, he couldn't pad his post count by posting in a private forum because the only person that works for is Joach1m.
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Still think that HTC would be better off with a re label to the Spitfire LF IX (which is what it is a late model LF IX) and be done with it. We have the Bf 109G-2, Bf 109G-6 and Bf 109G-14 and there seems to be no great problem understanding what "G" is what so two "IXs" should be the same way you would think. Save the triple roman numerals for the Mark 14 Griffin version.
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The full throttle height of the Spitfire Mk XVI in AH matches that of the Merlin 66 in the Spitfire LF.Mk IX, not the full throttle height of the Merlin 266 in the Spitfire Mk XVI, so we don't actually have a Spitfire Mk XVI in AH, we have a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe.
I wonder how many people would complain that the new Spitfire LF.Mk IXe wasn't as good as the old Spitfire Mk XVI and ask for the Spitfire Mk XVI back if HTC were to simply change the Spitfire Mk XVI's name to "Spitfire LF.Mk IXe" in AH?
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I wonder how many people would complain that the new Spitfire LF.Mk IXe wasn't as good as the old Spitfire Mk XVI and ask for the Spitfire Mk XVI back if HTC were to simply change the Spitfire Mk XVI's name to "Spitfire LF.Mk IXe" in AH?
Quite a lot.
I mean, you regularly see players even complain about HTC having nerfed plane X recently when there hasn't been any change or update whatsoever at all.
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No. It should go into the "Holier Than Thou, I'm So Great, Let Me Look Down My Shnoz at You Because You Said Something Wrong About Airplanes Forum" :D :neener:
But since that is a private forum and only a very few ppl on the boards have access to it, he posted it here for maximum exposure.
Also, he couldn't pad his post count by posting in a private forum because the only person that works for is Joach1m.
Points to SunBat's sig and wonders why he doesn't understand :)
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you think that, until your stuck in the DA with 40 ppl all flying in spit16s. totally ruins the atmosphere of fun in there.
Rome had bombers?
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It seems that the guys who complain about the Spit 16 are the same guys who fly the P-51D. If I'm not mistaken, the P-51 D was introduced very late in the war. As long as the P-51D stays in the game then the Spit 16 should stay.
a P51D takes more skill to fly than the Spit16/ MK IX LFe whatever it is thingy. A good P51 pilot will give a Spit16 a run for its money any day.
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a P51D takes more skill to fly than the Spit16/ MK IX LFe whatever it is thingy. A good P51 pilot will give a Spit16 a run for its money any day.
BAR, I'm up for testing that with you as I'm curious about the hubub. I will drive the 16 as I have spent little time in the 51. I would imagine it will be a long dual...I can't catch you and you will only be able to turn effectively with me about 5 times and that wont be enough. Should be interesting...PM me and we can set it up.
V/r
Changeup
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BAR, I'm up for testing that with you as I'm curious about the hubub. I will drive the 16 as I have spent little time in the 51. I would imagine it will be a long dual...I can't catch you and you will only be able to turn effectively with me about 5 times and that wont be enough. Should be interesting...PM me and we can set it up.
V/r
Changeup
sounds good. hopefully we can soon :aok
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No. It should go into the "Holier Than Thou, I'm So Great, Let Me Look Down My Shnoz at You Because You Said Something Wrong About Airplanes Forum" :D :neener:
But since that is a private forum and only a very few ppl on the boards have access to it, he posted it here for maximum exposure.
Also, he couldn't pad his post count by posting in a private forum because the only person that works for is Joach1m.
Huh? :headscratch:
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The full throttle height of the Spitfire Mk XVI in AH matches that of the Merlin 66 in the Spitfire LF.Mk IX, not the full throttle height of the Merlin 266 in the Spitfire Mk XVI, so we don't actually have a Spitfire Mk XVI in AH, we have a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe.
I wonder how many people would complain that the new Spitfire LF.Mk IXe wasn't as good as the old Spitfire Mk XVI and ask for the Spitfire Mk XVI back if HTC were to simply change the Spitfire Mk XVI's name to "Spitfire LF.Mk IXe" in AH?
if we have it your way then "Spitfire LF.Mk IXe" will be classified as mid war aircraft.
i say keep it as is and just give us spit XII for mid war :aok
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for those who are not familiar with spit XII, it's basically a clipped-wing, low-boost wep spit 14 with almost the same climb and speed as the in-game Fw-190A-5.
I'm sure XII won't be as unbalancing as the XVI.
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Points to SunBat's sig and wonders why he doesn't understand :)
:D
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Guppy, this makes too much sense. Stop it! You'll break the spirit of the Spit whiners and they won't have any "credible evidence" to prove why Spitfires should be perked. :furious
:D
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if we have it your way then "Spitfire LF.Mk IXe" will be classified as mid war aircraft.
Nonsense. The Spitfire LF.Mk IXe entered service in 1944. The Spitfire LF.Mk IX was a 1943 aircraft, but it didn't have the .50 cals or the capability to carry the two 250lb bombs in addition to the 500lb bomb.
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Nonsense. The Spitfire LF.Mk IXe entered service in 1944. The Spitfire LF.Mk IX was a 1943 aircraft, but it didn't have the .50 cals or the capability to carry the two 250lb bombs in addition to the 500lb bomb.
YA! And let that be a lesson to you!!! Don't EVER screw with the Great Karnak!! lol. (nice info man...)
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if we have it your way then "Spitfire LF.Mk IXe" will be classified as mid war aircraft.
i say keep it as is and just give us spit XII for mid war :aok
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for those who are not familiar with spit XII, it's basically a clipped-wing, low-boost wep spit 14 with almost the same climb and speed as the in-game Fw-190A-5.
I'm sure XII won't be as unbalancing as the XVI.
Don't even get me started on the Spit XII :) I'd trade the XVI for an XII in a heartbeat
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Don't even get me started on the Spit XII :) I'd trade the XVI for an XII in a heartbeat
i bet that model killed more luftbirds than spit XVI :bolt:
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i bet that model killed more luftbirds than spit XVI :bolt:
Fortunate it is, in that case, that we have a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe in AH, and not a Spitfire Mk XVI; and the Spitfire LF.Mk IXe most definitely shot down more German aircraft than did the Spitfire Mk XII.
Really, to be practical, when complaining about the Mk XVI, the kill totals of both the Spitfire LF.Mk IXe and Spitfire Mk XVI need to be combined as they are, other than a very slight difference in full throttle height, the same airplane.
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Fortunate it is, in that case, that we have a Spitfire LF.Mk IXe in AH, and not a Spitfire Mk XVI; and the Spitfire LF.Mk IXe most definitely shot down more German aircraft than did the Spitfire Mk XII.
Really, to be practical, when complaining about the Mk XVI, the kill totals of both the Spitfire LF.Mk IXe and Spitfire Mk XVI need to be combined as they are, other than a very slight difference in full throttle height, the same airplane.
Yeah, but like one's got "XVI" after it and one's got some other numerals or something, and there's like some rule made up by the Romans or the Romanians or whatever about that not being the same or they can sue you for misrepresentation or false advertising or some sh** like that. [Brooke doing his best impression of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGp4DvFEgh8&feature=fvsr .]
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i bet that model killed more luftbirds than spit XVI :bolt:
While a Spit XII squadron was high scorer in October 43, I wouldn't bet on that as there were more XVIs and more squadrons flying XVIs.
XIIs claimed 54 E/A and 82 V-1s
Figure 20 alone by 403 Squadron and the odds are pretty good the XVI had more total kills. And I'm a Spit XII fanatic of the highest order. The XIIs only claimed 3 E/A in the 9 months of 1944 they were operational. Everything else was in 1943 prior to the 8th AF pushing things further. The Luftwaffe was a bit preoccupied over Germany in 44 and the XIIs didn't go that far.
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a P51D takes more skill to fly than the Spit16/ MK IX LFe whatever it is thingy. A good P51 pilot will give a Spit16 a run for its money any day.
Eek... That's a fairly bold statement, in my opinion. :confused:
P-51D vs Spit XVI on the deck, pilots and energy equal, the Spit will take the Pony 9 times out of 10.
Higher altitude is a bit of a bit of a different story from what I've seen in-game (15k feet+). Don't seem to see to many Spits up that high, though.
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From '2nd Tactical Air Force Volume 4' (Shores) I count a total of 19 Spit XVIs squadrons (or 6 fighter groups worth by USAAF methods) by wars end in the ETO flying with that unit on the continent (based in France, Holland or Germany) with the RAF (including foreign manned squadrons; Poles, French, Belgians ect) and RCAF. That does not include Spitfire LF IXs just XVIs. I might be off by one it was a quick count just going through the pages. As for the # of kills those are listed but its a rather laborious task to go through the entire series Vol 1-3 and count them up maybe some day when I have some more time. For info.
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Eek... That's a fairly bold statement, in my opinion. :confused:
P-51D vs Spit XVI on the deck, pilots and energy equal, the Spit will take the Pony 9 times out of 10.
Higher altitude is a bit of a bit of a different story from what I've seen in-game (15k feet+). Don't seem to see to many Spits up that high, though.
thats because the spitdweebs are too scared to come above 10k. thats where my buffs live :t
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From '2nd Tactical Air Force Volume 4' (Shores) I count a total of 19 Spit XVIs squadrons (or 6 fighter groups worth by USAAF methods) by wars end in the ETO flying with that unit on the continent (based in France, Holland or Germany) with the RAF (including foreign manned squadrons; Poles, French, Belgians ect) and RCAF. That does not include Spitfire LF IXs just XVIs. I might be off by one it was a quick count just going through the pages. As for the # of kills those are listed but its a rather laborious task to go through the entire series Vol 1-3 and count them up maybe some day when I have some more time. For info.
I enquired of my squad CO who has the skill to do a Free French (RAF) XVI skin for me and apparently those XVI's were of the bubble canopy variety according to a knowledgeable source. Is this another permutation in the XVI's claim to authenticity in game? I defer to those with more information than me and use the skins available - skin deep.
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buff pilot whos protesting for the spits to be banned in DA.
thats a dumb campaign :rolleyes:
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I enquired of my squad CO who has the skill to do a Free French (RAF) XVI skin for me and apparently those XVI's were of the bubble canopy variety according to a knowledgeable source. Is this another permutation in the XVI's claim to authenticity in game? I defer to those with more information than me and use the skins available - skin deep.
He inquire of me on that. The French didn't get many XVI, they had IXs. The bubble canopy XVIs did not arrive at the squadrons until the end of April 45 and never in any numbers until after the war. This applied to the bubble canopy XIVs as well. The overwhelming majority of combat XVIs were of the regular high back profile like we have in game. This allows for far more skin options and also the skinning of LFIXe on it as well.