Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: THRASH99 on December 30, 2010, 01:01:24 AM
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Found some things interesting about the Brewster. Was looking up info about it, and came down to some points. As you know, the Brewster saw combat in the very early stage of the war. Most pilots as you know called it the "flying coffin". About 44 produced of the B-239 version and most of them were shot down, about 3 still around and very rare to see. It had a 940 hp engine and climbed 2750 feet per minute, which in AH is a bit overmodeled, it's set to 2950. Basically has the same engine power to the A6M. But, I've seen people while flying in the Dueling Arena, out match a zero just by turning and they keep holding it and holding it up in the vertical when the thing in real life didn't even have the power-weight ratio to even do that.
Quote from Brewster pilot:
Second Lt. Charles M. Kunz reported that after successfully downing two Val bombers, he was attacked by Japanese fighters:
"I was at an altitude of about 9,000 ft., and shoved over in a dive trying to shake the plane on my tail until I was about 20 feet from the water. I was making radical turns hoping the pilot couldn't get steadied on me. I glanced out of the rear and saw that it was a [Mitsubishi A6M Zero] fighter. I continued flying on a rapid turning course at full throttle when I was hit in the head by a glancing bullet. After he fired a few short burst he left as I had been in a general direction of 205 degrees heading away from the island. My plane was badly shot up...In my opinion the [Zero] fighter has been far underestimated. I think it is probably one of the finest fighters in the present war. As for the F2A-3, (or Brewster trainer) it should be in Miami as a training plane, rather than used as a first line fighter."
Notice he states that the A6M was a better plane than the Brewster, yet in AH it's out matched by the Brewster, even if an experienced person is in the zeke, they should be literally exactly the same matched. Now I've shot at the Brewster and use 20mm and 50 cals on it, and it sometimes doesn't even do anything from 400 out, even when your slamming it all over the place (not to mention the thing was really weak), then the Brewster does something fancy, gets on your tail, and puts some few 50 cal rounds into you and does some huge damage.
Also noticed this: "With only a single-stage supercharger, high-altitude performance fell off rapidly." Yet in AH, high alt performance is outstanding for some reason.
Couple more quotes: Karhunen, the captain and commander of the 3rd flight of LeLv 24, recalled:
"The Brewster model 239 was good against the older Russian fighters, Polikarpov I-153 Chaika (Gull) and I-16. Hence the period 1941–42 was the best time for us. In 1943 it was already significantly more difficult when the Russians began to use their newer fighters against us... Later, with the Yaks, Hurricanes, Tomahawks, LaGG-3 and MiGs, it became a fight to the death."
"In Finnish Air Force service, the B-239s were regarded as being very easy to fly, a "gentleman's plane". The Buffalo was also popular within the FAF because of their relatively long range and flight endurance, and also because of their low-trouble maintenance record. This was in part due to the efforts of the Finnish engine mechanics, who solved a problem that plagued the Wright Cyclone engine simply by inverting one of the piston rings in each cylinder. This had a positive effect on engine reliability. The cooler weather of Finland was also a plus for the engine. In the end, the Brewster Buffalo gained a reputation in Finnish Air Force service as one of their more successful fighter aircraft."
Now, in addition to all that I put down, and I hope it was enough for those of you who want a lot of info, I'm not complaining about the Brewster or calling it a dweeb or noob plane, even though that's all I see flying all the time in AH. I just think in my opinion that it needs to be heavily looked at a bit more. With all the claims and quotes, it seems to me that the Brewster wasn't the most dominate fighter in the early stage of the war. If you want to see more info about the Brewster, here's the website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo :salute :aok
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wikipedia :noid
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The Brewster we have in AH certainly isn't in the same category as the Buffalo that fought during Midway
I remember one pilot account that read something like "Any pilot sent into combat in one should be considered lost before take off."
I don't know if our Brewster is over modeled or not, but if this one is an accurate representative of the one the Finns used, we should have done to ours what they did to theirs and never traded it in for the F4F.
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dont underestimate the F4F/FM2 though. alot of people do and realize their fault too late. F4F/FM2 can keep up with the brewster and carry ord. its a little and dangerous gun platform like the brewster.
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(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i336/igotafro/research-cat-lolcat.jpg)
for all we know you could have written it...
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Lets compare apples to apples. The Navy flew the B-339, while the export version was the B-239.
Though I'd have to defer to the Finns for the hard details, I recall that the operational B339 was lightened. And if your implication is that the Buff is modeled wrong, well, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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I think the whole controversy is largely that this version of the Brew is better than we expected. Even so, it's not so much of a threat as an annoyance. Just about anything will out-run it, and it's hitting power isn't that great. Yes it can kill you, but it can also be neutralized pretty easily.
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Most pilots as you know called it the "flying coffin".
Can you name one? It certainly is news to me that the Brewster that's in the game was called "a flying coffin" by most of it's pilots. That would be quite a few Finnish pilots and would have to have a long list of gentlemen who scored kills in it. Just because the Brewster in general is called a flying coffin in one Flight Journal magazine doesn't mean that it was called that by most of it's pilots. The Flight Journal's suggestion that Brewster was possible the worst fighter of the war is down right absurd.
About 44 produced of the B-239 version and most of them were shot down, about 3 still around and very rare to see.
You are incorrect in saying that most of them were shot down. 21 of them were indeed destroyed due to enemy action (16 in aireal combat, 5 by AAA. Also, couple were lost on ground due to enemy action.) and there's only one original remaining in the world. What you conviniently left out is that B239s scored 478 aireal victories which means that the Brewster posesses one of the highest exchange ratios (if not the highest) that a single fighter type has in the history of military aviation.
It had a 940 hp engine and climbed 2750 feet per minute, which in AH is a bit overmodeled, it's set to 2950.
Before calling things overmodelled, I suggest you do some actual proper research and in game testing. First of all, Brewster that's in the game had an output of 1000hp, not 940hp.
Now, in addition to all that I put down, and I hope it was enough for those of you who want a lot of info,
In terms of showing some relevant info regarding the performance of the B239, you posted practically nothing.
Second Lt. Charles M. Kunz reported that after successfully downing two Val bombers, he was attacked by Japanese fighters:
"I was at an altitude of about 9,000 ft., and shoved over in a dive trying to shake the plane on my tail until I was about 20 feet from the water. I was making radical turns hoping the pilot couldn't get steadied on me. I glanced out of the rear and saw that it was a [Mitsubishi A6M Zero] fighter. I continued flying on a rapid turning course at full throttle when I was hit in the head by a glancing bullet. After he fired a few short burst he left as I had been in a general direction of 205 degrees heading away from the island. My plane was badly shot up...In my opinion the [Zero] fighter has been far underestimated. I think it is probably one of the finest fighters in the present war. As for the F2A-3, (or Brewster trainer) it should be in Miami as a training plane, rather than used as a first line fighter."
First of all, an anecdote like this doesn't really tell anything quantifyable about relative performance of these planes. Second, the Brewster variant here is radically different from the one we have in the game.
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Maker speaks!!!! :bolt: :noid
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say hello to one of the reasons it took 9 years to get the brew added. :rock
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I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.
1. Hartmann 352
2. Barkhorn 301
3. Rall 275
4. Kittel 276
Total 1195
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I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.
1. Hartmann 352
2. Barkhorn 301
3. Rall 275
4. Kittel 276
Total 1195
How many did Krupnski have?
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I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.
1. Hartmann 352
2. Barkhorn 301
3. Rall 275
4. Kittel 276
Total 1195
What you conviniently left out is that B239s scored 478 aireal victories which means that the Brewster posesses one of the highest exchange ratios (if not the highest) that a single fighter type has in the history of military aviation.
That would be kills versus deaths to you. Not total kills overall.
How many did Krupnski have?
Did you mean: Krupinski ?
Is your google broken?
wrongway
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Krupinski: 197
Good site to read: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/
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It certainly is news to me that the Brewster that's in the game was called "a flying coffin" by most of it's pilots. The Flight Journal's suggestion that Brewster was possible the worst fighter of the war is down right absurd
Before calling things overmodelled, I suggest you do some actual proper research and in game testing. First of all, Brewster that's in the game had an output of 1000hp, not 940hp.
In terms of showing some relevant info regarding the performance of the B239, you posted practically nothing.
That must be why in "EACH" variant of the F2A-Brewster, its pilots called it a flying coffin, other varinats took very heavy losses, why do you think we got rid of it and switched to the F4F? Cause it was killing our pilots as well.
Even if it does have a 1000hp engine, where does it get that power-weight ratio to even hold itself up it vertical for a long time?
Saying I showed practically nothing is kind of stupid way to say it don't you think..? Showing it's variants and telling on the website about the plane, how's that not info? Even from pilots who flew the plane, and your still not satisfied. Brewster pilots called the zero better than the brewster and said that it should be a training plane rather than used in front line. If my info not that great to you, why don't you go look some up and see what better info you can find. :devil
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(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i336/igotafro/research-cat-lolcat.jpg)
for all we know you could have written it...
I thought you left Aces High? You got so mad over it but yet your still here, why?
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Lets compare apples to apples. The Navy flew the B-339, while the export version was the B-239.
Though I'd have to defer to the Finns for the hard details, I recall that the operational B339 was lightened. And if your implication is that the Buff is modeled wrong, well, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Do you people not know how to read??! I said "in my opinion, I think that the brewster should be look at a bit more due to the claims from our pilots saying is wasn't all that great of a plane." Zeros sounded like they were pretty much equal against the brewster. Sure for finland it was the only plane they even had to fight with, the only reason why it did so well over there. Don't know if it has anything to do with it, but finns pilots say that the weather over there was a plus to the engine.
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Second, the Brewster variant here is radically different from the one we have in the game.
Ok, one question.....HOW?!! :huh Its claims on the B-239, the one we have in aces high. What is different about the plane? I already know the Brewster could turn good yeah..what I want to know is of all the pilots who flew in the pacific campaign against the japanese and lots were killed in the brewster, hence "flying coffin", so we got rid of it and switched to the F4F, how can it hold up when it doesn't have the power-weight ratio to even do that in the first place and how is it so good in Aces High?
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Maker speaks!!!! :bolt: :noid
Thx for back up joach, really help me there :lol Last time I let you get 7 kills! :rofl
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Ok, one question.....HOW?!! :huh Its claims on the B-239, the one we have in aces high. What is different about the plane? I already know the Brewster could turn good yeah..what I want to know is of all the pilots who flew in the pacific campaign against the japanese and lots were killed in the brewster, hence "flying coffin", so we got rid of it and switched to the F4F, how can it hold up when it doesn't have the power-weight ratio to even do that in the first place and how is it so good in Aces High?
Now see if you checked other, more reliable sources than wikipedia you would understand these things.
The version we have in the game is based of of the Finnish version (check the default skin). The Finnish version I believe removed a bunch of the armor there by helping the HP/weight ratio.
If you want more accurate info you might want to ask Wmaker. I think he was a big help in providing HTC with documentation in the form of manuals and spec sheets of the Finnish Brewster. :D
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From one of the other times this was beaten to death, but with good explanations by dtango:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,290439.0.html
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In regards to the Brew, most fail to take into account that in RL it would be a mediocre fighter at best. AH isn't RL though. The Brew is just another tool in the toolbox. It does a few things well, but overall it's not really an issue if ya don't get low and slow with em (exception taken to a very few 10k dives that end with a Temp or Pony dying).
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The only problem I have with the B-239 in AH is that people insist on putting it in Pacific scenarios where it has as much business being there as the Spitfire Mk Ia and Bf109E-4 do, which is to say, none at all.
I have no problems with it used in Finland vs USSR settings.
We need the version the US used at Midway added for that reason.
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Ok, one question.....HOW?!! :huh Its claims on the B-239, the one we have in aces high. What is different about the plane? I already know the Brewster could turn good yeah..what I want to know is of all the pilots who flew in the pacific campaign against the japanese and lots were killed in the brewster, hence "flying coffin", so we got rid of it and switched to the F4F, how can it hold up when it doesn't have the power-weight ratio to even do that in the first place and how is it so good in Aces High?
The Americans never operated the B-239. Ever. Ever ever.
The Finnish operated the B-239. The B-239 was significantly lighter than the F2A-3 operated by the United States Navy, because it wasn't... well, in typical American style, fat and weighed down with crap.
Finnish pilots were the highest scoring pilots in the world outside of Germany.
I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.
1. Hartmann 352
2. Barkhorn 301
3. Rall 275
4. Kittel 276
Total 1195
There were also 33,000 Bf 109's produced and operated by one of the world's largest airforces, as opposed to 44 operated by... the Finnish Air Force ;)
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The version we have in the game is based of of the Finnish version (check the default skin). The Finnish version I believe removed a bunch of the armor there by helping the HP/weight ratio.
Was it field modified from factory standards or was it produced this way in Finland?
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That must be why in "EACH" variant of the F2A-Brewster, its pilots called it a flying coffin, other varinats took very heavy losses,
As it is you who's implying that something is overmodelled, please, provide actual direct quotes from pilot saying it is a "flying coffin". Not that it changes anything anyway, though. AH doesn't have an "F2A-variant". It has a Model 239.
why do you think we got rid of it and switched to the F4F?
There's plenty of reasons for it that have nothing to do with B239 being over modelled. This right here is a very illogical way of trying to argue this issue.
Even if it does have a 1000hp engine, where does it get that power-weight ratio to even hold itself up it vertical for a long time?
Well, I could say that it doesn't hold itself up long time in the vertical at all and we'd both be just as wrong or just as right.
Saying I showed practically nothing is kind of stupid way to say it don't you think..?
Not stupid at all. You just weren't able to provide a solid argument.
Ok, one question.....HOW?!!
If you have to ask, you should by now have gotten a hint that maybe you haven't quite read enough about the subject?
But before you start reading more about the Brewster I suggest you start your reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation)
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Was it field modified from factory standards or was it produced this way in Finland?
IIRC
The B-239s were produced in the US stripped of carrier gear, armor, guns etc. for shipment & legal reasons, and then reassembled in Sweden and flown to Finland, the only things being replaced being the guns and the pilot's armor.
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Brewster pilots called the zero better than the brewster and said that it should be a training plane rather than used in front line. If my info not that great to you, why don't you go look some up and see what better info you can find. :devil
The problem with you is that you can't get it into your mind that the Brewster the Finns flew was very different than the Brewster flown by the US, RAF, Commonwealth countries and the Dutch East Indies Air Force.
If you really want to know how the Brewster version that flew with the Finns compared to the other versions of the Brewster, this is a good site and a far better resource than your Wikipedia article. The author of this site, Dan Ford, is a long time write on warbirds and former editor and writer for Smithsonian Air and Space Magazine.
Annals of the Brewster Buffalo (http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm)
This is an article (http://www.warbirdforum.com/faf.htm) from that site.
Brewster 239 in Finnish service
by Jukka Raustia
Q: Why did the Finns achieve so much with the Buffalo?
A: First off, the Finnish Brewsters weren't Brewster Buffaloes, or Brewster 339's, or F2A-2, which were very bad fighters. They were Model 239's much closer to the original USN F2A-1, which were reported to be delightful to fly. Finnish nickname "Taivaan Helmi" "Pearl of the Skies" reflects this.
Also, Finnish Brewsters had reflector sights and reliable armament of three heavy machine guns and one rifle-caliber mg. (later on four heavy MG's) and seat armour.
The Finnish Air Force also used innovative modern air combat tactics, such as largely relying on finger four / Thach Weave / Schwarm, whatever you call it, against doctrinal Soviet tactics, such as using three plane flights and "Spanish circle" described later on.
In 1941 many of the Finnish Buffalo pilots had had combat experience during the Winter War, and air combat tactics were modified and developed. Mock dogfights were made against captured russian planes. Training with Brewsters hadn't been so good as it might have been, since the severe shortage of aviation fuel in 1940-1941.
The quality of Soviet planes in 1941, when the best kill ratio 67.5 - 1) was achieved, was lower than Brewsters, most common types being used were SB-2, DB-3, I-16 and I-153.
Finally, there was element of luck. The fighter squadron the Brewsters were in most of the war, 24, was commanded by an excellent commander, Major G. Magnusson, a great organizer and tactician who is considered to be "Grand Old Man" of the Finnish fighter aviation. By almost sheer luck, some of the finest pilots of the Finnish Air Force were in the Brewster Squadron when the war started, such as Hans Wind, Ilmari Juutilainen, Joppe Karhunen and Lauri Nissinen, each one of them later on gaining huge kill numbers also with Messerschmitt 109G-2's and G-6's.
The Brewsters probably could have made even more kills, but the Finnish fighter control system during the Brewster's golden age in 1941-42 was abysmal. For an example, sometimes the alert messages were only somekind like this: "Village of Inkeroinen is being bombed" and arrived as much as 15 minutes too late. But by the summer 1944 it was excellent.
Criticism against Finnish ground control system and FAF brass in general has been extremely harsh by Joppe Karhunen, a Brewster ace and an aviation historian.
Q: How was it possible to achieve victories with Brewsters over the Soviet planes even as late as 1944?
A: Tactics, especially using Brewster's good dogfight qualities, excellent command and control, high quality of Finnish pilots and low quality of Soviet pilots.
Q: Is there a Buffalo in a Finnish aviation museum?
A: No. A Finnish copy of Brewster-239, Humu, is on display in Keski-Suomi Aviation Museum in Jyvaskyla.
Q: Is it true that USA sold the Brewsters to Finland only with formal cost of 1$ apiece?
A: No. More about it follows soon.
Q: Why did the Finnish Buffaloes have swastikas?
A: No. Swastikas were used as Finnish AF national insignia, and as symbol in numerous decorations etc. since 1918. In fact, if you look at the modern Finnish decorations you can notice the swastika.
In 1st of April 1945 the swastika insignia was changed into present white-blue-white roundel. Insignia was changed because the Allied High Commission in Finland wanted it. And since swastika didn't get very good P.R. during the WW II the roundel is still the Finnish national insignia.
Q: How was it possible to maintain Brewsters with virtually no spare parts coming in?
A: That's the real miracle. As many FAF pilots have said, the real heroes of FAF were in fact the mechanicians.
Q: What were the nicknames for Brewster Buffaloes?
A: Most common was simply Brewster. They were never called Buffaloes. Some other nicknames were Pylly-Waltteri ("Butt-Walther") and more poetical Taivaan Helmi ("Pearl of the Skies").
Only BW-367, BW-378 and BW-384 [were individually named] as far as I know. BW-367 was named "Tre Bröder" since the money for it was donated by three swedish brothers. BW-378 was named "Otto Wrede" but I don't know why. And BW-384 was nicknamed "Noka" since money for it was donated by workers of Nokia. (The same firm which makes cellular phones nowadays.)
In general, only a few FAF planes have ever carried anykind of nicknames or personal paintings. However, victory markings were painted, usually as white stripes in the tail. (Major Luukkanen used labels of Karelia beer instead...)
PURCHASING BREWSTERS
When the Second World War started and Soviet Union asked Finland to start "negotiations" with Soviet Union about Finnish territory, the Finnish Defence Forces were mobilized and suddenly the shortage of money which had troubled all kind of equipment purchases during the 30's was over. Finland was trying to buy military equipment from all directions.
Why Brewsters?
In the USA, the Brewster Export corporation offered Brewster Model 239. It was one of the three US candidates, others were Grumman F4F and Seversky EP-1. The Brewster wasn't considered to be strong candidate in light of US Navy's experience with deliveries, but the Grumman couldn't sell F4F and Sweden had bought all planes in the production line of EP-1.
During the time Finnish Embassy was negotiating with plane makers, the Soviet Union attacked Finland _without official declaration of war_. Only modern fighters in Finland were 36 Fokker D.XXI's, the Soviets had about 2000 fighters and therefore Finnish embassies were instructed to buy any modern fighter planes at all costs, directly from storage. In the USA laws about selling war materials to a country in war weren't an issue, since Finland wasn't in war _de jure_, and there were 44 Brewster 239's just about to be completed for the USN. (Finland hadn't declared war on Soviet Union, and Soviet Union considered their own puppet "People's Government of Finland" being the legitimate government of Finland.)
But there were laws prohibiting selling of armament headed for the USN or the US Army. But with clever lawyers a plot was made; the fighters headed for Finland were declared surplus by the USN, and so they could be bought by the Finland after all USN equipment, such as machine-guns, sights, emergency rafts and instruments were taken away.
And so 44 Brewsters were bought in 16th of December 1939, with a price of 54000$ a piece + delivery costs. (compare this with modern fighter costs...) The Finnish Brewsters weren't equipped with standard Wright R-1820-34 -engines since they weren't available for foreign sales, they were equipped with refurbished R-1820 G-5 -engines instead, taken from DC-3 airliners.
Delivering Brewsters
Three Brewsters were completed and test flown in the USA, the rest 41 planes were assembled and test flown in Trollhattan, Sweden. First planes left New York harbour in 13th of January 1940, and the last planes arrived Sweden in 13th of March. As always with the Brewsters, they were late. The unassembled planes were assembled by Swedish, Norwegian and British volunteers, and were equipped with three Colt MG 53-2 .50 cal machine guns and one Colt MG-40 .30 cal machine gun (.30 cal MG was later on changed into .50 cal), instruments originally bought for licence-made Fokker D.XXI's and British Aldis telescopic sights. (replaced with Finnish copy of German Revi 3/c deflector sights before the Continuation war) Since the Brewster test pilot Robert A Winston arrived in late February, the first test flights were made by Finnish pilots without anykind of advice. The Brewsters were coded with numerals BW-351 to BW-394.
Only six planes arrived to Finland during the Winter War which ended in 13th of March, and they didn't get into anykind of action. The last ones were in Finland by 1st of May 1940.
ack-ack
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Since I exceeded the word count with my previous post, here is the rest of my post.
This is an excerpt from the autobiography of Ilmari Juutilainen, titled "Double Fighter Knight. Out of the official 94 kills he's been credited with (he claimed the number was 126 total kills) 34 were scored flying the Brewster. I don't think you'll find any mention in his autobiography or anything else he wrote that mentions the Finnish Brewster being a "flying coffin."
A Finnish pilot's view of the Brewster (http://www.warbirdforum.com/illu.htm)
I just thought the following forum thread was interesting, it's a daily war "diary" of Lentolaivue 24 describing a brief encounter between a couple of Brewsters and Soviet MiGs and Hurricanes.
War Diaries of Lentolaivue 24 (http://warbirdsforum.yuku.com/topic/1147/t/War-diaries-of-Finnish-Brewster-Squadrons-now-online.html)
One quick note before I go about the Brewster that served in the USN, USMC, RAF/Commonwealth air forces and Dutch East Indies AF. The early Brewsters (F2A-1 and F2A-2) were well liked by their pilots and as noted by "Pappy" Boyington, " "But the early models, before they weighed it all down with armor-plate, radios, and other [equipment], they were pretty sweet little ships. Not real fast, but the little plane could turn and roll in a phone booth."
It was the weighted down F2A-3 that saw action with the USN and USMC and the Brewster Model B-339E, served with the RAF and Commonwealth air forces while the Brewster Model B-339C and Model B-339D (B-339C, D, E comparable in performance with the F2A-3) that gave the Brewster its much maligned reputation as a fighter.
The Brewster Model 239 that we have in game is not overmodeled, at least no one has been able to provide any evidence whatsoever that the plane is over modeled. Those that cry that it is over modeled are the ones that find themselves being shot down by the Brewster and since they think it's an old plane and they are in some late war bird, there is something with with the flight model of the Brewster. Identical to your claims about the Spitfire Mk XIV.
ack-ack
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How many did Krupnski have?
196 or 197 if you include his 'somewhat' confirmed kill on a B17 I think it was. :aok
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I thought you left Aces High? You got so mad over it but yet your still here, why?
i left the game not the boards...
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I believe the ME-109 is the top killer of any plane produced in the history of aviation. Just four German aces can add up to over a thousand kills. I saw the total number of kills scored in the 109 but don't recall what it was and I am too lazy to look it up. Didn't mean to hijack the Brewster discussion sorry.
I wasn't talking about the top killer, but a fighter type that has the best exhange ratio. And is there for the "most effective" in terms of dealing out damage compared to the damage taken.
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More anecdotal evidence:
GORDON FIREBAUGH
'A real dinger'
Excerpts from conversation with Gordon Firebaugh, former Naval Aircraft Pilot with VF-2, later Captain USN (date: 1-17-83) -- Jim Maas
Q: What was your perception of the Brewster?
GF: (It was) the most fabulous thing to step into, considering what you had stepped out of...
Q: The F2F?
GF: Right, the Grumman. The F2A was a real dinger.
Q: What was your first experience, your first recollection?
GF: Back in, I think, October '40, we flew the F2F's to Pensacola. We got orders to go in civilian clothes to pick up a 'secret airplane' around 16 October (and were) flown by transport to Anacostia. We were checked out on the F2A-2's, the checkout wasn't as complicated as it is nowadays, and proceeded to San Diego....
Q: In formation?
GF: No, we went singly after check-out - I test flew the ship for two hours, just because I liked it...We got back to San Diego in, still, October. Then they took our F2A's away from us and gave us another squadron's aircraft.
Q: Still Brewsters?
GF: The same thing. Nobody knew why. Now, while I was with the Chiefs (VF-2) I flew simulated dogfights and whipped F4F's, probably the F4F-3 with no folding wing, but I could also outfly the F2A when in an F4F as well - it all depended on who was in the pilot's seat. I flew the F4F after we got switched around [when the VF-2 NAP's were spread around with other squadrons -jm] in early 1942. I got shot down over Santa Isabel [7 August 1942 during the Guadalcanal operation -jm]...and I've often thought that, I wish, I'd been better off in a Brewster. I think it would have matched the [Mitsubishi] Zero - the F4F was heavier and didn't have the turning radius. During that fight, I met up with five Zeros, shot down three before I got shot down. I spent a long time in the water, until I got to land and met one of the [Australian] coastwatchers...
Q: You felt the F2A was a better aircraft than the F4F?
GF: Well, remember, I'm thinking of the F2A-2. We had the F2A-3 for a couple of months, that was a different aircraft. It had too much fuel. I remember we could fly five hour patrols....
Q: Did you ever get an explanation for the extra tankage in the F2A-3?
GF: They had put in a wet wing - you were able to purge it with CO2 into the main tank, but it meant extra weight. That was maybe the reason we had strut failures - these wheels, the landing gear, landed pretty hard, negative 3 G's. The struts had a tendency to move forward. When you retracted the gear on the next flight, the box strut scraped on the wheel well. You couldn't have that happen, the gear not retracting, so the mechanics would file some off and get closer to the rivets...
Q: And if you did that enough times...
GF: Exactly, you have a gear failure. I loved the F2A-2, and wasn't as impressed with the -3 and the F4F. Now you know, VF-3 got the first batch and then we got more.
Q: Do you remember any camouflage experiments [the Barclay dazzle paint schemes] by VF-3, actually the Saratoga air group, around September 1940?
GF: Around then, we were being sent to the East Coast to get our F2A-2's. I don't remember (any camouflage trials). Starting in 1941 until November, operating either from Saratoga or Lexington, we operated making quite a number of landings. About February (1942) we took our F2A-3's and gave them to the Marines. Ramsey took most of the squadron on the Lexington to the (Battle of the) Coral Sea. About twelve of us were assigned to the Saratoga after she was hit - we were put on F4F-3A's for CAP (Carrier Air Patrol) between Pearl Harbor and Bremerton Navy Yard in Washington. I spent May of 1942 in San Diego doing ferry detail to New York and Anacostia, then went on the Saratoga with F4F's back to Pearl, but we were too late for the Battle of Midway. Around the first of June I was transferred to VF-6 on the Enterprise....
Q: What was the Brewster like to fly?
GF: We used to dive those things, the Brewster could pick up speed in a hurry. Now when I joined the squadron in 1938, VF-2 was filled with old-time Chiefs (Chief Petty Officers). I was the youngest NAP (Naval Aircraft Pilot, a non-commissioned rank) and one of the old Chiefs grabbed my log books and said "hey fellows, we've got a recruit, he's only got 1600 hours!" Now the squadron was coming up on gunnery practice, the competitions, so they'd keep me up in the air for four or five hours. I was probably 28 at the time...
Q: The Brewster had a reputation for bad landings...
GF: We didn't have too much trouble. For example, I never hear about anyone who could ground-loop a Brewster. We did have one problem, the first couple of months, we had about 8-10 engine failures, due to a faulty main bearing. I remember Bauer had his engine go out north of San Diego - I remember flying his lunch to him while they fixed it. The problem was also in VF-3 but they got all of them down okay. The first engines were 950 hp then 1200 hp on the F2A-3. The other trouble with the F2A-3's landing on the carrier deck, the landing gear struts would twist, move because of the extra gas on board.
Q: Do you remember the early wartime January 1942 operations of VF-2?
GF: They put us on search missions, because the SBD pilots were wearing themselves out. There was one (submarine) sighting, we figured out the course and went out again that afternoon, but the attack was at too low an altitude, so they didn't get a hit on it. We thought the Japanese had radar - they wouldn't let us use electric razors on ship because they thought the Japanese would get a fix on us.
Q: Did you talk to any of the cadets out of Miami?
GF: I talked to some who had trained on F2A's, but the word was that the Brewsters were pretty tired by then. Now another thing about the landing gear, it just occured to me, we were on the Lexington in January '42. There was an F2A parked up in front of the bridge and the gear wasn't locked. All of a sudden the left wing went down, and then the other gear went out and it just sort of settled. I wish I'd had a picture of that, it just kind of sat down!
Q: Going back to the October 1940 pick-up, why did you have to wear civilian clothes?
GF: The Navy was getting concerned about security, so they ordered us to wear civilian clothes. I flew to Chicago and left the plane at Midway (Airport) and, since I had lived nearby, spent the night at home. The next morning, as I taxied out on the runway there were cars along the road with people taking photos. I called the tower and they sent security out to confiscate the film.
Some guy named "Boyington": (edited for language)
(From a post on rec.aviation.military)
In October, 1977, I had the privilege and honor to have a few fairly lengthy conversations in a relativly private atmosphere with Greg Boyington. He seemed a hard, inwardly angry man. By this I mean, he never had it easy and this came through in his demeanor. His speech was rather gruff, he rarely spoke unless spoken to first and his answers to questions came quickly, brusquely and to the point. He had no qualms about his liking of alcohol, constantly nursing beers as we spoke. Coors, as I recall.
I remember asking him about the Brewster Buffalo (Then, Now and Always, my favorite aircraft). I had no sooner finished saying the word 'Buffalo', when he slammed his beer can down on the table, and practicaly snarled, "It was a DOG!" (His emphasis). Then he slowly leaned back in his chair and after a moment quietly said, "But the early models, before they weighed it all down with armor plate, radios and other sh**, they were pretty sweet little ships. Not real fast, but the little fu*** could turn and roll in a phone booth. Oh yeah--sweet little ship; but some engineer went and f***ed it up." With that he reached for his beer and was silent again. After that answer, I somehow had the feeling that I had just gotten a glimpse into Boyington's attitude towards life in general.
Just thought I'd mention it -- Rick West
wrongway
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ya theres been plenty of times in fm2 tryin to out turn that dang plane and even in a hurricane with 50 %
ussauly with fm2 i can out turn evrything but zekes and brews
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ya theres been plenty of times in fm2 tryin to out turn that dang plane and even in a hurricane with 50 %
ussauly with fm2 i can out turn evrything but zekes and brews
Pilot skill doesn't matter anything sheman?
This thread is again done with guys who doesn't have anything but their "can't beat it so it must be over modeled" attitude. No tests, no facts. Just "feeling". Like HTC did all other planes like they were, but when Brewster come they pick stats from the hat and let it go....
All we need is JunkyII here, "The Brewster Expert".
<S> Wmaker. Dont't waste your time with these........ well, better not say what....
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Still waiting for the answer to my question: is the Brewster we have in game a field modified plane?
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Still waiting for the answer to my question: is the Brewster we have in game a field modified plane?
I would say no. It could be considered a remanufactured plane though. The modifications to it were done at the time of reassembly, not at the airfields. That it needs to be modeled thusly is inescapable as we didn't even include engines with them when we shipped them to the Finns.
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I think it simply boils down to the fact that most people know the Brewster's reputation from Midway and the Pacific, and they're surprised when they fly the Finn version. As far as overmodeling is concerned, the only thing I would question is the toughness factor. Our Brews are mighty tough, but I would expect without all the armor they would be more vulnerable, especially to pilot wounds.
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How about this? Of the Brewsters at Midway, how many got shot down out of the total at the outset of the battle?
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Folks like to bring up the Boyington quote... as far as I recall he never flew the type. Can anybody confirm?
Just curious. Seen it brought up so many times in defense of the Brewster, and every time I think "and you flew it... where?"
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What I don't get is why nobody trusts the Finnish data on the B-239. The Finns were the only combatant that I am aware of that underclaimed on kills. They don't have a record of grossly distorting data, but in this case the anti-B-239 people all act as though the Finnish data is so tainted as to not even exist.
It isn't like we have to rely on quotes from people like Boyington. The Finns had some extremely fine pilots who flew it more extensively than any non-Finn anywhere and saw many hours of combat in it. Finland is not some uneducated, technologically limited country. It is not as though we gave some to Ethiopia and they saw success in it against the Italians and were now relying on haphazard Ethiopian data to model it.
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A Finnish pilot's view of the Brewster (http://www.warbirdforum.com/illu.htm)
I just thought the following forum thread was interesting, it's a daily war "diary" of Lentolaivue 24 describing a brief encounter between a couple of Brewsters and Soviet MiGs and Hurricanes.
The above mentioned article unfortunately gives zero info regarding MiG-3 or Hurricane perfomance vs Brewster.
But the following paragraph
"In February 1943, Illu's squadron remounted on Messerschmitt Bf-109s from Germany. This was fortunate, because the Russians were now flying more redoubtable aircraft including Spitfires, Mustangs, and Kittyhawks."
shows that the author didn't know the subject well.
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Our Brews are mighty tough, but I would expect without all the armor they would be more vulnerable, especially to pilot wounds.
The pilot armor was installed but the fuel tanks didn't have self-sealing protection.
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The only problem I have with the B-239 in AH is that people insist on putting it in Pacific scenarios where it has as much business being there as the Spitfire Mk Ia and Bf109E-4 do, which is to say, none at all.
I have no problems with it used in Finland vs USSR settings.
We need the version the US used at Midway added for that reason.
+1 to this.
Americans are more familiar with the "Buffalo" which is apparently a much different animal than the "Brewster". I can post direct quotes from pilots and officers deriding the Buffalo, but we don't have the Buffalo.
The Brewster is not a realistic substitute for the Buffalo.
I will never put it in a Midway scenario for that reason.
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For years I've always heard it referred to as the 'Brewster Buffalo'..?
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The above mentioned article unfortunately gives zero info regarding MiG-3 or Hurricane perfomance vs Brewster.
But the following paragraph
It wasn't intended to. It was something I stumbled onto and thought it was interesting so I passed it along.
ack-ack
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Why do you think we got rid of it and switched to the F4F? Cause it was killing our pilots as well.
This thread is funny stuff :)
Other points have been well covered already, but lets be blunt with this one.
Why each and every nation got rid of older fighters and switched to new ones?
Because the newer ones were better.
Better. Faster. More survivable. More efficient. Just better.
USA, Britain, Germany, Soviet Union, Japan etc, countries that had large aviation industries and developed new types, they had the possibility to switch to new types. No wonder a 1930s design that had very limited growth potential and extremerely large problems in the manufacturing was moved out of front lines and replaced with new, better planes.
On other note,
Some very good insigh on the art of flying the Brewster B-239 can be read here:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-CaptainWindsAirCombatTacticsLecture.html
This is captain Hans Wind's, one of FiAF top aces, lecture from 1943. It is general tactics lecture, but gives very good insight on the Brewster as well.
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I cant understand whats the problem with the Brewster. Its just like an a6m2. True, its zoom-climb or energy retention can be good, but its extremely slow, dont even improve with altitude, and has no cannons. Only the virtuoses can fly it effectively.
<S> the Finns
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I cant understand whats the problem with the Brewster. Its just like an a6m2. True, its zoom-climb or energy retention can be good, but its extremely slow, dont even improve with altitude, and has no cannons. Only the virtuoses can fly it effectively.
<S> the Finns
It can dive... very well.. and the concentration of its fire is tight.. I have posted a picture of this before... The result is that if it dives on you from above, its very hard to shake.. and you can't run from it, before it chews you up... basically never be caught below a brewster.
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True. But a Hurricane2c can do the same with a little altitude (even though it has lesser time to kill you). But it still requires way better than average SA to be successful in the brew, shoot down more than one enemy and not to be stuck in a many vs you turnfight.
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The B-239 was of discussion on 200 again. It climbs and catches 109K4s, out turns Hurricanes+Zekes and catches up with P51D's+F4UD's.
Aces High Over modeled, discuss?
:salute
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DefINitely :noid :noid
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The B-239 was of discussion on 200 again. It climbs and catches 109K4s, out turns Hurricanes+Zekes and catches up with P51D's+F4UD's.
Aces High Over modeled, discuss?
:salute
This is a troll, right?
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:furious
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Before this nobody flew the Brewster much.
"Made some flight modeling changes affecting the stability of the Brewster." (v2.19)
After that I noticed an increase in Brewster usage.
Are you telling me that HTC had it nerfed so badly as to render it ineffective?
Or perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the other direction.
Either way, Brew lovers like to say that they never messed with the flight model. Well there it is folks.
Discuss.
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lets see,not many rounds in guns,cant catch anything straight and level,only way it can catch anything is if it is diving and the other plane is not aware of his own E-state as well as the brewsters E-state..
I would say the ONLY thing it has going for it is it can turn,and while turning has decent E-retention..dont see overmodeling in that.. :salute
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Wow, 2 Brewster threads going at once.
This plane MUST be the work of the debil.
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When the Brewster first came in the game I just dismissed it as an under guns F4F. After reading all the whines about it I have started to use it and I like it. For low and slow base defence it works pretty good. I even killed a 262 in it and the Zero's and Hurricanes are not the top turn birds now.
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It climbs and catches 109K4s, out turns Hurricanes+Zekes and catches up with P51D's+F4UD's.
:rofl
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It most certainly does not out-turn a zeke and the rest of your points are equally invalid.
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It most certainly does not out-turn a zeke and the rest of your points are equally invalid.
:aok nope, nothing can outturn my zeke :D
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:aok nope, nothing can outturn my zeke :D
Wrong. My Zeke out-turns your Zeke!
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Before this nobody flew the Brewster much.
"Made some flight modeling changes affecting the stability of the Brewster." (v2.19)
After that I noticed an increase in Brewster usage.
Are you telling me that HTC had it nerfed so badly as to render it ineffective?
Or perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the other direction.
If it were ineffective before and thus effective now you could expect a dramatic increase in K/D after the change, as this is a pure fighter. Yet the LWMA K/D varies in the range 0.9 - 1.1 throughout the tours, with no clear tendency before or after. (Even dropping to 0.8 in Nov2010.) To say that nobody flew it much before, is also kind of a stretch. Not counting the "novelty"-tour after it's introduction (10000+) it usually had about 5000 combined kills and deaths. it's true that it rose a bit around May (over 9000), but for the tours 129 and 130 ( I can't access tour 131 yet) it averages about 6300. You see bigger variances with other plane types. Seems more like a case of increased use because of hyping.
Either way, Brew lovers like to say that they never messed with the flight model. Well there it is folks.
Who in here likes to, or even did, say that?
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Brewsters K/D in this tour is 0.83. Uber? :D
If brewster kills you, your SA sucks. :old:
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The brewster always catches up with my pony, especially when I'm parked on the runway.
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If brewster kills you, your SA sucks. :old:
This is one of the truest statements regarding the modeling of the brewster that I have read so far.
NOT
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I've had discussions in game with Brew guys who claimed the model was never messed with. Even after presenting the quote from the version notes, some refused to believe it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't care one way or the other. I think I died to a Brew 4-5 times in the last few tours. (Due to my own suckage.)
However, the fact that their was a change to the flight model begs some questions to be asked. Perhaps one of the Brew die-hards could come here and tell us all what, if any, differences the changes made.
The fact is that any plane in game can be beat with proper tactics. And if a Brewster is one's biggest headache, then one must not get out much.
Now back on topic. Let's discuss the Brewster's flight model changes please, for I feel that it might shed some light on the subject.
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If it caught a K4 in a climb its because it had a ton of E and the K4 driver got sloppy and was counting on his climb ability to make up for sloppy flying.
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It climbs and catches 109K4s, out turns Hurricanes+Zekes and catches up with P51D's+F4UD's.
Aces High Over modeled, discuss?
:salute
A C47 will do the same thing........... if ya let it. :rolleyes:
It's pretty much a Hurri with .50s <shrugs>
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This is one of the truest statements regarding the modeling of the brewster that I have read so far.
NOT
2010 has come and gone and I still can't figure out which way ur posts should be read.
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The change was about yaw stability as I recall. If interested about what it precisely was about you can see if you can have a look on the matter here http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,270213.0.html. It was all done out in the open.
From the link:
Roll shouldn't be substantially different. The things I changed were that I found that it didn't have enough dihedral, too much prop mass, and I increased the effect of the rear fuselage on directional stability. Had to relearn combat trim of course.
Personally I couldn't tell much difference, but then I never flew the Brewster all that much myself.
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The Brew puts up a good fight in MW when flown smartly. Easy to avoid, easy to get away from with any alt to burn, but if you can sucker the unwary or overzealous pilot into a turnfight then a kill can be made.
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Still waiting for the answer to my question: is the Brewster we have in game a field modified plane?
They were stripped down prior to sale, not "in the field." I would consider a field mod more of a "one-off" any way.
Folks like to bring up the Boyington quote... as far as I recall he never flew the type. Can anybody confirm?
Just curious. Seen it brought up so many times in defense of the Brewster, and every time I think "and you flew it... where?"
I presented it merely as more anecdotal evidence, ala the "flying coffin". I imagine if he flew it it may have been in training in the States.
How about this? Of the Brewsters at Midway, how many got shot down out of the total at the outset of the battle?
All but two of the Wildcats based on Midway were shot down at the same time as well. Was it the plane or the 5+ to 1 odds they faced?
wrongway
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Snefens, I wasn't trying to imply that anything was done in any shady way, or less than "out in the open".
I was merely looking to find some answers regarding the changes to the Brewster's flight model. The link you've provided has the info I was looking for. Thanks for that.
Judging from some of the responses in that link it seems that the Brewster was always an effective little machine.
As far as I'm concerned this matter is closed. (I'll still HO shoot every one that I come across, given the opportunity :lol )
<S> Melvin
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I have not been killed by a Brewster since it came out... except for when I fly an i-16
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Brewster will only kill you if you let that happen, many pilots get sucked into the turn fight, which the brewster is gonna tear ya up, you won't run no one down (unless your diving in on unsuspecting prey) It's good for a quick defensive horde plane
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They are easily out ran in level flight. But they out turn most planes. Can dive with most planes. The 4 .50's take very little practice to be good with. A new guy can feel like an ace in one. Weather or not over modeled i don't know. But i do hate them. and i have had them up off a feild and climb with my k4 when i was already doing 350. I say lower the eny on them cause they are hard to kill and easy to get kills in. maybe a 15 eny plane if you ask me
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2010 has come and gone and I still can't figure out which way ur posts should be read.
:lol was thinking the same thing.
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Brewster is not that messed up. It just has great energy retention, same case with the P38. Why do you think everyone flies it?
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The B-239 was of discussion on 200 again. It climbs and catches 109K4s, out turns Hurricanes+Zekes and catches up with P51D's+F4UD's.
Aces High Over modeled, discuss?
:salute
DefINitely :noid :noid
Notice how it's the ones that don't know how to properly fight a Brewster are the ones that whine that the plane is over modeled?
ack-ack
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Finland had a far superior air force then Europe, and its western allies. Churchill marveled and said. "If it wasn't for the brewster, I wouldn't have tea. Spitfire who?"
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i dont believe u have ever flown with/against me ack ack :)
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:aok nope, nothing can outturn my zeke :D
forgetting who showed you what a zeke can do during Phillipine Phandango jolly? :aok
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I assume small light planes will have good acceleration and climb characteristics lower down the scale which is how I account for the Brews abbilities against other more modern stuff if you don't keep it fast when Brew's are around.
Just my 2 cents.
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Wrong. My Zeke out-turns your Zeke!
Negativo sir!
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forgetting who showed you what a zeke can do during Phillipine Phandango jolly? :aok
You showed me nothing!
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It is NOT overmodeled, Just EASY!!
My sig line says it all! :aok
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Most of the time, statements like the OP's need to be slightly translated. When someone says "this is overmodelled" or "that is easy mode" -
the usual translation is "I just got killed by..."
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Finland had a far superior air force then Europe, and its western allies. Churchill marveled and said. "If it wasn't for the brewster, I wouldn't have tea. Spitfire who?"
Thanks for that - only the second day of the year and I already have had a good laugh - why can't all posts have some genuine wit like this instead of a little face?
Is the English language that endangered?
Cheers Crazy <S>
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You showed me nothing!
:confused: :uhoh :bolt:
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It is NOT overmodeled, Just EASY!!
The Brew has no surprises; it doesn't have characteristics that cause a wing to dip or (worse yet) the lack of neg G carb of say the early RAF fighters. Of all the fighters in AH, it is the one plane that handles most like a T6 Texan but can still dish out damage with really good E retention. I think the biggest problem people are having is allowing a Brew to dive on them and not getting out of guns range as soon as possible. Myths of the Brew being able to zoom and dive like 262s but turn like zekes, I believe, are appearing from these confrontations.
I won't fly it, without surprises it is pretty boring and borderline easy.
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Finland had a far superior air force then Europe, and its western allies. Churchill marveled and said. "If it wasn't for the brewster, I wouldn't have tea. Spitfire who?"
And how is this statement determined?
Quite frankly the FINS did so well cause the russians were so terrible at the time. Finnish airforce would have been destroyed in a matter of days vs Brits, Germans, US etc.
Yes the Fins did very well against Russia but is like having a kick boxing contest against a quadrapalegic!
Just saying
:aok
JUGgler
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The B-239 was of discussion on 200 again. It climbs and catches 109K4s, out turns Hurricanes+Zekes and catches up with P51D's+F4UD's.
Aces High Over modeled, discuss?
:salute
Anything can climb and catch a 109K-4 if there is a huge E difference. No, it does not out-turn zekes, hurris I cannot account for, but the zeke easily flies circles around it. Anything can catch up to anything, like I said. F4Us (U-4 is exempt) have difficulty regaining speed quickly unless it has room to dive, and the pony isn't the quickest accelerating plane in the game.
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Finland had a far superior air force then Europe, and its western allies. Churchill marveled and said. "If it wasn't for the brewster, I wouldn't have tea. Spitfire who?"
And how is this statement determined?
Quite frankly the FINS did so well cause the russians were so terrible at the time. Finnish airforce would have been destroyed in a matter of days vs Brits, Germans, US etc.
Yes the Fins did very well against Russia but is like having a kick boxing contest against a quadrapalegic!
Just saying
:aok
JUGgler
The way that I read his statement is that: First, Finland had a 'far superior' air force, 'THEN' (apparently much later) Europe and its western allies did something with tea.
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A fighter plane with a 0.81 kill/death ratio is hardly something to :cry over.
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Brewsters need to be roped. Never an easy fight though, and easy to lose if someone smart flying it.
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the zeke easily flies circles around it.
I call bs on this.
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I call bs on this.
Why? The zeke is a superior turn-fighter. "Flies circles around it" is hyperbole. Any zeke pilot who's worth his/her salt will win a turn fight against a brew, though. The brewster cannot maintain enough airspeed and eventually will falter to the zeke, which can turn even at very low speeds.
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And how is this statement determined?
Just saying
:aok
JUGgler
Through sarcasm?
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Finland had a far superior air force then Europe, and its western allies. Churchill marveled and said. "If it wasn't for the brewster, I wouldn't have tea. Spitfire who?"
In Finnish Air Force service, the B-239s were regarded as being very easy to fly, a "gentleman's plane". The Buffalo was also popular within the FAF because of their relatively long range and flight endurance, and also because of their low-trouble maintenance record. This was in part due to the efforts of the Finnish engine mechanics, who solved a problem that plagued the Wright Cyclone engine simply by inverting one of the piston rings in each cylinder. This had a positive effect on engine reliability. The cooler weather of Finland was also a plus for the engine. In the end, the Brewster Buffalo gained a reputation in Finnish Air Force service as one of their more successful fighter aircraft. In service during 1941–1945, Buffalos of Lentolaivue 24 (Fighter Squadron 24) claimed with 477 Soviet Air Force warplanes destroyed, with the combat loss of just 19 Buffalos; an outstanding victory ratio of 26:1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_F2A_Buffalo)
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Glad to see my post has caused a little discussion, with the usual suspects using it as a attempt to flame how people fly in game.(But we secretly don't want you to change ack-ack ;) )
Reason I personally think it's overmodeled is that I have been lead to believe;
it couldn't turn with zekes and hurricanes,
that it was very unstable when near stall, and snap rolled much like a 190A5
that the export versions engine switched off in a negative G (And too long in a neg g state would be off for good)
that it's 950 bhp R-1820-G5 engine made it struggle to climb and go fast
Now I don't have all the resources or massive heads and egos some of you guys do to sit here and blah blah blah your SA sucks this that and the other with all the correction and flaming. But hey Happy New Year, my resolution is to try and have the Brewster fixed a little
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Glad to see my post has caused a little discussion, with the usual suspects using it as a attempt to flame how people fly in game.(But we secretly don't want you to change ack-ack ;) )
Reason I personally think it's overmodeled is that I have been lead to believe;
it couldn't turn with zekes and hurricanes,
that it was very unstable when near stall, and snap rolled much like a 190A5
that the export versions engine switched off in a negative G (And too long in a neg g state would be off for good)
that it's 950 bhp R-1820-G5 engine made it struggle to climb and go fast
Now I don't have all the resources or massive heads and egos some of you guys do to sit here and blah blah blah your SA sucks this that and the other with all the correction and flaming. But hey Happy New Year, my resolution is to try and have the Brewster fixed a little
Funny because the war time brewster pilots regarded the hurricane as an extremely clumsy plane that should immediately be engaged in a turn fight while in brewster. In fact the hurricane in AH2 is modeled wrong because in real world it was a flying molotov coctail, the unprotected fuel tank was between the pilots legs, one bullet there and the pilot burned alive. Same thing for spitfire (minus the burning) under the altitude of 4km above which spitfire became superior. Also bw was regarded as a very easy and stable to fly. Engine did not shut off in a negative G since it was not carburetor equipped. In fact it's the same engine used in B17 and SBD.
You have your facts all wrong.
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"easily flies circles around it" is hyperbole.
Hence the calling of "bs".
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the MKIa hurricanes of BoB did have amour around the fuel tank , only the first 12 made did not have the armour . The Hurricane had a slower roll than the Brewster but would turn better at lower speed (under 120Mph) . It was the oil that was more likely to catch fire in the hurricane as it was just above the supercharger of the merlin and unprotected . If the fuel tanks were hit they were more likely to explode than just burn as they were kept under pressure of 20psi to feed it into the fuel system . The spitfire had the same system .
As far as the Spitfire being superior over 4Km(?) i'm not sure what you mean as the hurricane would handle very well over 20K with much better stall qualities than the spitfire. With the ticker wing the hurricane could dive better , at speed the hurricane didn't lock up it's ailerons (unlike the spitfire) nor did it have control reversal at speed . While Firing it's guns the Hurricane did not have the tenancy to dip it's nose like the spitfire and it's firing cone was much tighter . Many hurricane aces when going over to the spitfire found them to be overly sensitive in pitch , awkward to see your target over the nose . The early Spitfires had far more vices that would kill you than the Hurricane Though they were faster.
Most BoB aces will tell you that the Hurricane was the right plane for the job in the BoB.
My grand farther who worked as ground crew on 6 squadron DAF could attest to the amount of damage that a hurricane could soak up and still fly home . Fuel tank hits were common to 6 squadron as they were attacking tank columns and supply convoys . This meant that they would often have the underside of the aircraft exposed at low altitude to AAA fire from tanks and fix positions.
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Hence the calling of "bs".
both the Zero and hurricane MkIa will turn better at very low speed than the Brewster enough that after a few revolutions the brew will be in trouble and have to break off . we are talking of speeds below 120mph . plus the zero could also deploy flaps one notch to increase it's turn rate at ultra low speed . Both Hurricane and zeros stall speeds are below that of the Brewster .
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Still waiting for the answer to my question: is the Brewster we have in game a field modified plane?
No. The B-239s were removed some equipment before the sale. The planes were modified in Finland to suit the operational needs. Including changes in armanent, radios, gunsight, armour, pilot survival kit, pilot's skis and so on. The modifications were done by State Aircraft Factory.
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But hey Happy New Year, my resolution is to try and have the Brewster fixed a little
Unless you can come up with some solid and reputable data that Pyro doesn't already have ... don't count on it.
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Hence the calling of "bs".
Hence, you take everything too seriously.
The zeke can and will out-turn the brewster easily. Both versions will, but especially the A6M2.
Both Hurricane and zeros stall speeds are below that of the Brewster .
This.
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Hence, you take everything too seriously.
The zeke can and will out-turn the brewster easily. Both versions will, but especially the A6M2.
This.
A6M2 can out do it. A6M5B comes close with it unless flown by a skilled pilot
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A6M5B comes close with it unless flown by a skilled pilot
So you're saying the two of them are equal? :headscratch:
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So you're saying the two of them are equal? :headscratch:
no. just very close maneuveringwise. one has more vert advantage one has more horizontal. A6M's flaps over the top counters the 239 well though
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Funny because the war time brewster pilots regarded the hurricane as an extremely clumsy plane that should immediately be engaged in a turn fight while in brewster. In fact the hurricane in AH2 is modeled wrong because in real world it was a flying molotov coctail, the unprotected fuel tank was between the pilots legs, one bullet there and the pilot burned alive. Same thing for spitfire (minus the burning) under the altitude of 4km above which spitfire became superior. Also bw was regarded as a very easy and stable to fly. Engine did not shut off in a negative G since it was not carburetor equipped. In fact it's the same engine used in B17 and SBD.
You have your facts all wrong.
youre talking about early war hurris and spits right? :headscratch: if so then i can knock them down easily with a well placed shot anyways (with any weapon) whether early or late war models
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no. just very close maneuveringwise. one has more vert advantage one has more horizontal. A6M's flaps over the top counters the 239 well though
Not even close. I find that within 3-4 turns, I'm on a brew's six. Albeit slower than trying to land on the six of a 190 :lol
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Not even close. I find that within 3-4 turns, I'm on a brew's six. Albeit slower than trying to land on the six of a 190 :lol
so like i said. they are close :rolleyes: if youre in a zero and it takes 3-4 turns (and i doubt that its prob more) of a lufberry to get on an enemy's six, its close in maneuvering... Hence the pilot's skill takes more part in the fight than the plane's abilities against its foe...
And by the way, you use flaps in the zekes right? please say you do....
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I never use my flaps in a zeke! They are just an abstract, anyway. :aok
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I never use my flaps in a zeke! They are just an abstract, anyway. :aok
Use em :aok
Fast Edit: Well use em correctly. You can make the zeke pull some wild stuff with those flaps down.
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......... But hey Happy New Year, my resolution is to try and have the Brewster fixed a little
Another New Years resolution broken before it could start.
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Use em :aok
Fast Edit: Well use em correctly. You can make the zeke pull some wild stuff with those flaps down.
I already can. :)
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I already can. :)
bahhh :rofl but honestly. try it sometime :aok youll learn to love using jap flaps at the right times.
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Through sarcasm?
:old: Ah! With age goes rational thought and humor! :D
JUGgler
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And how is this statement determined?
Quite frankly the FINS did so well cause the russians were so terrible at the time.
And that is probably one of the single largest reasons why the Finns were so successful with the Brewster and also the main reason why the Brewster is so successful in the hands of a few in AH.
ack-ack
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wow another brew hating thread....haha.....that plane is a joke out climbs a K4.......that made me actually lol every plane in the hands of someone who knows it, is dangerous, learn every planes weeknesses and strengths and then you will see how off your thoughts are on this one.
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Ok. I guess a Brew driver better get in here and share some info. Brew vs. BnZ plane (k4, 51, 47 etc.) I wait for em to close 1.5k or so then evade, flat turn with rudder to throw the blind shot. IF he stretches out in a shallow climb I put my tail toward him and preform step 1. again. Fight ends 3 ways. 1 he gets tired and leaves (happens the least) 2 his friends show up then its just a matter of time or luck I wouldn't even give myself 50/50 odds. (happens a lot) 3 He get impatient goes vert, if I'm really watchin my E and he gets real sloppy and holds real still I can knock a wing off at 800 to 1000 then rudder over watchin my tail if I couldn't get him, if I miss and he comes right down on me evasives, either he starts turning (death without help) or he runs. (fight over)
with 50% to 0 fuel the brew will climb roughly 1000ft per 100mph indicated airspeed(so try it if you want to) but you better have more than me.
The Dreaded Diving Brewster. Ive had the Brew doing 450 indicated before even having stress sounds and so I guess that 500/510 and Ive never tore anything off of it. Now of course it can't turn real great at those speeds but Ive never had to do a whole lot of Turin either when diving, usually done in just straight lines but I made a pony tear his wings off one time chasing me through a high speed turn(don't ask me how but he did it.) if your on the deck I'm probably gonna catch ya. But a hard turn should get ya out of trouble unless your by yourself then I'm climbing and goin over the top and right back in catchin ya in the middle of your turn and saddling up.(Two options run and hope they don't get ya before your outta gun range/ turn and ya better hope its a crappy pilot.)
Brewsters VS. A6Ms and Hurris. I attack these 2 as quickly as I can because in the flat turn they will kill you. Unless the zeke or hurri pilot is good this quick fight will surprise em and they either panic or cant slow enough to out turn you. In a 1v1 same pilot Id give em a 50/50 both ways, If either one lands a good hit probably will end the fight right there. but with both a Brew has to end the fight early. In a prolonged fight though its really which pilot knows his bird better. If you can dive on em then of course you control the fight but in the straight turn fight the Brew cannot win unless he can dump his E faster and these two, which is hard to do. So I'm always lookin for these guys already low and slow to put em outta the fight before they can get after me. And of course both can catch you in level flight, but the Zeke cannot dive with you(unless its a real short trip to the ground :confused:) Of course this is just a basic breakdown. This doesn't take into account the flaps of both the A6M2 and the brew more the reason to finish the fight quickly.
Anyhow there ya go. :D Don't let me catch you. :D
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Ok. I guess a Brew driver better get in here and share some info. Brew vs. BnZ plane (k4, 51, 47 etc.) I wait for em to close 1.5k or so then evade, flat turn with rudder to throw the blind shot. IF he stretches out in a shallow climb I put my tail toward him and preform step 1. again. Fight ends 3 ways. 1 he gets tired and leaves (happens the least) 2 his friends show up then its just a matter of time or luck I wouldn't even give myself 50/50 odds. (happens a lot) 3 He get impatient goes vert, if I'm really watchin my E and he gets real sloppy and holds real still I can knock a wing off at 800 to 1000 then rudder over watchin my tail if I couldn't get him, if I miss and he comes right down on me evasives, either he starts turning (death without help) or he runs. (fight over)
with 50% to 0 fuel the brew will climb roughly 1000ft per 100mph indicated airspeed(so try it if you want to) but you better have more than me.
The Dreaded Diving Brewster. Ive had the Brew doing 450 indicated before even having stress sounds and so I guess that 500/510 and Ive never tore anything off of it. Now of course it can't turn real great at those speeds but Ive never had to do a whole lot of Turin either when diving, usually done in just straight lines but I made a pony tear his wings off one time chasing me through a high speed turn(don't ask me how but he did it.) if your on the deck I'm probably gonna catch ya. But a hard turn should get ya out of trouble unless your by yourself then I'm climbing and goin over the top and right back in catchin ya in the middle of your turn and saddling up.(Two options run and hope they don't get ya before your outta gun range/ turn and ya better hope its a crappy pilot.)
Brewsters VS. A6Ms and Hurris. I attack these 2 as quickly as I can because in the flat turn they will kill you. Unless the zeke or hurri pilot is good this quick fight will surprise em and they either panic or cant slow enough to out turn you. In a 1v1 same pilot Id give em a 50/50 both ways, If either one lands a good hit probably will end the fight right there. but with both a Brew has to end the fight early. In a prolonged fight though its really which pilot knows his bird better. If you can dive on em then of course you control the fight but in the straight turn fight the Brew cannot win unless he can dump his E faster and these two, which is hard to do. So I'm always lookin for these guys already low and slow to put em outta the fight before they can get after me. And of course both can catch you in level flight, but the Zeke cannot dive with you(unless its a real short trip to the ground :confused:) Of course this is just a basic breakdown. This doesn't take into account the flaps of both the A6M2 and the brew more the reason to finish the fight quickly.
Anyhow there ya go. :D Don't let me catch you. :D
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH vudu,dont give em the secret info.. :cheers:
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LOL I just want to see I they still let me shoot em down :D
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The zeke can and will out-turn the brewster easily.
Who are you trying to kid? "Easily" is not the word to use.
You're 0 for 2 in the zeke vs the brew this tour. Easy eh?
Take your zeke out against Wmaker in his brew and tell me it's easy. :old:
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Who are you trying to kid? "Easily" is not the word to use.
You're 0 for 2 in the zeke vs the brew this tour. Easy eh?
Take your zeke out against Wmaker in his brew and tell me it's easy. :old:
FbWldct is correct though, a A6M2 will easily out turn the Brewster. However a smart and experienced Brewster pilot will not turn with an early Zeke so the point is kind of moot.
ack-ack
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I call bs on this.
vertical circles :aok
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Best turning aircraft in game.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Brewster_B-239#Maneuverability (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Brewster_B-239#Maneuverability)
:neener:
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Best turning aircraft in game.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Brewster_B-239#Maneuverability (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Brewster_B-239#Maneuverability)
:neener:
OK try it. A zeke almost always has enough E to loop and nothing, not even a brewster can stick with it when it is looping. That would be a zeke flying circles around a brewster.
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FbWldct is correct though, a A6M2 will easily out turn the Brewster. However a smart and experienced Brewster pilot will not turn with an early Zeke so the point is kind of moot.
ack-ack
Early zeke? I've been flying it for 2 years. The two Brewsters that killed me:
1. Ganged me
2. I was rtb and didn't notice a funny guy on my low six.
I will gladly take on any brewster.
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Its all on who lays the first shot. If they inflict enough damage to end the fight. wheather it happens in the first 10 seconds or 10 minutes later, with those light planes one good burst usually ends it one way or the other.
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I smell debate and doubt, I think there is something that will settle the zeke vs brew question!
wait for it :D
Brewster vs A6M2 S M A C K D O W N !
This will be settled in the DA soon :aok
JUGgler
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Regarding which aircraft turns "better", the only way to know it is to do proper testing. No amount of "does not! , does too!" is going to solve it.
Widewing tested Brewster and I-16 as they were released. The flight model changes Brewster has experienced since then shoudln't really affect its results. I-16 has probably gotten worse due to reduction of the prop efficiency at low speeds.
Turn radius and rate, full flaps, 25% fuel
B-239: 329 feet @ 22.5 degrees/sec
I-16: 382 feet @ 21.8 degrees/sec
A6M2: 315 feet @ 25.1 degrees/sec
Hurri I: 364 feet @ 23.3 degrees/sec
As one can see, while the difference between the turning radius of the Brewster and A6M2 is very small at sea level, A6M2 turns at clearly faster rate. It should be remembered however that sustained turning performance alone doesn't win or lose an engagement.
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Notice how it's the ones that don't know how to properly fight a Brewster are the ones that whine that the plane is over modeled?
ack-ack
Troll much?
Brewster = easy mode....people shouldn't get a 30 eny reward for flying it.
You forgot the HO you preform so well......
Discussion question..............Can the Brew change directions quicker/smoother then a Zeak/Hurri?
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I have not enjoyed flying the Brewsky nor have I had any luck with kills. It feels awkward and difficult to control. By reading here I gather I have not given it ample effort and have possibly & mistakenly thought badly to the tough little fighter. Strangely enough I like the I-16 a lot better. :headscratch: :old:
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I have not enjoyed flying the Brewsky nor have I had any luck with kills. It feels awkward and difficult to control. By reading here I gather I have not given it ample effort and have possibly & mistakenly thought badly to the tough little fighter. Strangely enough I like the I-16 a lot better. :headscratch: :old: I'll try her again....
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If Brew is so über easy so why don't you people just fly it. You do fly Spitties, right? :lol
-C+
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If Brew is so über easy so why don't you people just fly it. You do fly Spitties, right? :lol
-C+
Nope not really......
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Brewster = easy mode....people shouldn't get a 30 eny reward for flying it.
Opinions are like...well...anyway everybody has one, and we by now know that yours certainly isn't very objective one. :)
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Opinions are like...well...anyway everybody has one, and we by now know that yours certainly isn't very objective one. :)
I should fly it for the tour like Jugler is doing with F3 mode :)
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Discussion question..............Can the Brew change directions quicker/smoother then a Zeak/Hurri?
Was in an A6M2 in EW last night and easily spanked the Brew within 4 turns ... and the Brew held all the cards when the fight started. The Brew could not fly as slow as the A6M2 while trying to keep inside the A6M2.
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If a brew driver is dumb enough to try flat turnin with a zero he deserves to be shot down plain and simple.
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If a brew driver is dumb enough to try flat turnin with a zero he deserves to be shot down plain and simple.
I got behind his 9/3 line right after the merge ... wasn't much left for him to do after that.
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Junky yes I did ho your TA152 after catchin you tiwce pickin poor folks over tank town, because when it comes right down to it I got nothin to lose and you seem to. Then you showed up in your shade and, if memory serves died again. unsure though. My favorite fights in the brew though 5 seperate engagements 6 v 1 me less than 100 rounds and 5 mins of gas.
and makin a couple auger. Of course they finnally get me but they gotta work for it. :D
p.s. have to watch the film if I still have it Junky it still makes me smile when I think of it. :) <<<<<see
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Then you showed up in your shade and,
LMAO Junky could not afford a shade account if I loaned him the money... :rofl
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Im fairly sure it was him he brought up the 152s he'd lost either that ora "close friend" :rofl
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Junky yes I did ho your TA152 after catchin you tiwce pickin poor folks over tank town, because when it comes right down to it I got nothin to lose and you seem toNope not really, just like good fights not having a 3rd plane jump in which made it so I could turn and already cant extend away....Then you showed up in your shade and, if memory serves died againI was flying that same name all day...it was NuffSaid i think. And you can't kill me 1v1...so I don't worry about that :aok. unsure though. My favorite fights in the brew though 5 seperate engagements 6 v 1 me less than 100 rounds and 5 mins of gasYour full of it....Yep definately since your in The Flying Horde.
and makin a couple auger. Of course they finnally get me but they gotta work for it. :D
Just so we know all the names I have flown under for Vudu's sake.....
BigPekr
MrNasty
Apollo
NuffSaid
Cassidy
ummmmmmmmmmmm.....
junky1(First name in game)
Junky
and of course....
JunkyII
:aok
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Just so we know all the names I have flown under for Vudu's sake.....
BigPekr
MrNasty
Apollo
NuffSaid
Cassidy
ummmmmmmmmmmm.....
junky1(First name in game)
Junky
and of course....
JunkyII
:aok
You forgot JennyDrama.
ack-ack
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damn Junky your like me...I enjoy messing with people thinkin im a noob and trashin em right quick names ive had first one in tour52~USURPER~INK~JETSOM~MORTIS~INK69~1BADSHOT~BUDO~.........MAN i so cannot wait to fly again, I am jonezin on a massive level.
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I should fly it for the tour like Jugler is doing with F3 mode :)
For once, I'm actually pleasantly suprised by your comment.
Couldn't agree more. I think that that way you'd find that there's two sides with every coin.
I highly recommend that you do it.
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Mr nasty that's who it was just couldn't remember the name. You and Bruv remember Drhrs31 he was a rook you thought Bruv got him but he killed Bruv then some other unsuspecting guy name of ........oh what was it. ! JunkyII that was it. Oh and I have the film right here. Imagine that how thoughtful of me. So O ace of aces how do I post this for the world to see? but in your eyes it wouldn't be the fairest fight 2v2 really. and lost SA. Darn and theres an old film had to blow the dust off of it "Bust Junky2 with Hurri" and seeing as I don't fly the 2c that leaves the other one I use the Mk. 1.
Oh here it is. correction it was 7 v 1 fight was myself vs a 38L, 38J, 109, LA7, 47M, Spit9, and a P51 and lasted 7 mins after losing the alt advantage. and man am I making mistakes this evening it was 5 bullets and I was shot as I was ditching in the ocean with no fuel by a 38. Bout sum your hodgepodge of misinformation up there sir. These videos are free of course all you have to is ask and then attempt to pawn off your poor flight skills to your buddys cause you were killed by a Noob in an "Uber" plane as you call it.
Thanks as always your not so loving enemy Vudu15
don't let me catch you ;)
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You forgot JennyDrama.
ack-ack
JnyDrama :) thank you(Suppose to be Johnny :o)
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Mr nasty that's who it was just couldn't remember the name. You and Bruv remember Drhrs31 he was a rook you thought Bruv got him but he killed Bruv then some other unsuspecting guy name of ........oh what was it. ! JunkyII that was it. Oh and I have the film right here. Imagine that how thoughtful of me. So O ace of aces how do I post this for the world to see? but in your eyes it wouldn't be the fairest fight 2v2 really. and lost SA. Darn and theres an old film had to blow the dust off of it "Bust Junky2 with Hurri" and seeing as I don't fly the 2c that leaves the other one I use the Mk. 1.
Oh here it is. correction it was 7 v 1 fight was myself vs a 38L, 38J, 109, LA7, 47M, Spit9, and a P51 and lasted 7 mins after losing the alt advantage. and man am I making mistakes this evening it was 5 bullets and I was shot as I was ditching in the ocean with no fuel by a 38. Bout sum your hodgepodge of misinformation up there sir. These videos are free of course all you have to is ask and then attempt to pawn off your poor flight skills to your buddys cause you were killed by a Noob in an "Uber" plane as you call it.
Thanks as always your not so loving enemy Vudu15
don't let me catch you ;)
Im glad you kept the films...I personally can't really remember and Im sure if it was 7v1 I wouldnt have jumped in....I would have said very sarcastically"Does anyone need help with that so and so" (Originally quoted by Waystin2)
:aok
For once, I'm actually pleasantly suprised by your comment.
Couldn't agree more. I think that that way you'd find that there's two sides with every coin.
I highly recommend that you do it.
Havn't flown it yet.....I have a fetish for Luft planes, can't let them go :)
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Mr nasty that's who it was just couldn't remember the name. You and Bruv remember Drhrs31 he was a rook you thought Bruv got him but he killed Bruv then some other unsuspecting guy name of ........oh what was it. ! JunkyII that was it. Oh and I have the film right here. Imagine that how thoughtful of me. So O ace of aces how do I post this for the world to see? but in your eyes it wouldn't be the fairest fight 2v2 really. and lost SA. Darn and theres an old film had to blow the dust off of it "Bust Junky2 with Hurri" and seeing as I don't fly the 2c that leaves the other one I use the Mk. 1.
Oh here it is. correction it was 7 v 1 fight was myself vs a 38L, 38J, 109, LA7, 47M, Spit9, and a P51 and lasted 7 mins after losing the alt advantage. and man am I making mistakes this evening it was 5 bullets and I was shot as I was ditching in the ocean with no fuel by a 38. Bout sum your hodgepodge of misinformation up there sir. These videos are free of course all you have to is ask and then attempt to pawn off your poor flight skills to your buddys cause you were killed by a Noob in an "Uber" plane as you call it.
Thanks as always your not so loving enemy Vudu15
don't let me catch you ;)
You can create an account at www.mediafire.com (it's free) and upload your files to their host service and then post the links in this thread so we can all enjoy a good film :devil
ack-ack
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ty Ack Ill do that this evening wasnt a bad fight already got 5 before they got me.
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JennyDrama
My favorite by far! :rofl
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http://www.mediafire.com/?incuyv0xi8x08gx (http://www.mediafire.com/?incuyv0xi8x08gx)
http://www.mediafire.com/?gg6529q427mai0p (http://www.mediafire.com/?gg6529q427mai0p)
http://www.mediafire.com/?t5ifkdlfwbhefz1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?t5ifkdlfwbhefz1)
Here ya go gents have trouble with the links let me know.
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http://www.mediafire.com/?incuyv0xi8x08gx (http://www.mediafire.com/?incuyv0xi8x08gx)
http://www.mediafire.com/?gg6529q427mai0p (http://www.mediafire.com/?gg6529q427mai0p)
http://www.mediafire.com/?t5ifkdlfwbhefz1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?t5ifkdlfwbhefz1)
Here ya go gents have trouble with the links let me know.
First film bad SA
Second I bail because of HO(I know I fired too probably pissed :) )
Third film I didnt even watch...when i didnt see my name anywhere
Good for you and now I blame Bruv for getting me killed after I couldn't aim with easy mode guns :aok
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well ty sir the 3rd is the best one in my IMO some of the best flying and shootin I would suggest watching it. and it really shows what the brew is capable of a critique of it would be nice.
<S>
it is true the brew is usually used in a safe way for the Brew driver but like in the 3rd film where you really unlock that little bird is using trees to block bullets and lasting as long as you can.
Plus I still fly with stall limiter on. when you take that off that bird gets even better.
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well ty sir the 3rd is the best one in my IMO some of the best flying and shootin I would suggest watching it. and it really shows what the brew is capable of a critique of it would be nice.
<S>
it is true the brew is usually used in a safe way for the Brew driver but like in the 3rd film where you really unlock that little bird is using trees to block bullets and lasting as long as you can.
Plus I still fly with stall limiter on. when you take that off that bird gets even better.
Ah thought you were trying to hook me, ill take a look at it :aok
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Being a lousy beginner pilot I love the Brewster. I started with the spit 8 and it went merge, ping, tail fall off. With the Brewster I can last longer as I can get out of the way and absorb some hits, plus people ignore me or else noobs like myself think for some reason "easy kill." The point here is that flying the Brewster has let me learn SA much faster than if I had to take off splat, take off fly to battle splat, takesplat (jumped on runway). I think this community should realize that it is going to need more pilots to keep it going, and people might get bored before they develop skill. You might argue you don't want unskilled bored pilots but I would say todays UBP is tomorrows ......
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I actually found early success with the Brewster as well. It helped me gain enough confidence to transition to more difficult (read: faster) aircraft. My development path kind of went Brewster Yak FW A8 P-38 FW A5/D9 and then back to the Spit 8, which I now find a very easy bird to fly.
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I started with the C205 and KI84 after really flyin everything in game those two were the ones I could shoot well enough with. As for the brewster to me its just an upgraded Hurri Mk.1 which I love to fly as well. But yall are right when flyin the Brew you have to keep excellent SA. If I might I would suggest clicking on the bottom link on my above post if you download the item and place it in your "films" folder in your Aces High folder you can watch a film of me fighting a number of guys in the Brewster.
P.S. constructive criticism is encouraged. :D
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Being a lousy beginner pilot I love the Brewster. I started with the spit 8 and it went merge, ping, tail fall off. With the Brewster I can last longer as I can get out of the way and absorb some hits, plus people ignore me or else noobs like myself think for some reason "easy kill." The point here is that flying the Brewster has let me learn SA much faster than if I had to take off splat, take off fly to battle splat, takesplat (jumped on runway). I think this community should realize that it is going to need more pilots to keep it going, and people might get bored before they develop skill. You might argue you don't want unskilled bored pilots but I would say todays UBP is tomorrows ......
Brewster a great plane to learn on I think. Once you start rolling in it you can see the possibilities of turning defense into attack,
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The brew= MEGA-FUN...LOVE watching the guys auger while I am flying in circles and in and out of trees..
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The brew= MEGA-FUN...LOVE watching the guys auger while I am flying in circles and in and out of trees..
Big discussion on 200 today....about 18 people bashing vudu15 about how the Brew is easy/overmodeled...I was going with easy
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lol I think I need to revise my opinion on the brew.....well maybe not but.......I cant fly online so ive been watching old films, in one I took up a brew, must have been my first flight in one, got three kills the last kill a P51 tried to bounce me, I just slipped to the side he passed, I followed him down doing over 400mph and killed him when he tried goin vert....I said over squad Vox, "damn this Brew is fn badass" lol but lookin at my stats ive killed twice as many that killed me.
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Unfortunately, a level headed discussion about the Brewster is practically impossible on this board.
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Unfortunately, a level headed discussion about the Brewster is practically impossible on this board.
true...But I have been flying it Wmaker. Krupnski and I upped and went into a furball....he scored 6 kills I scored 7.
I will never say it isn't easy mode. I had a guy in a F4U dive on me, I started a shallow dive and became almost =E. He overshot on me when I turn and went vertical...I stayed right with him even after I pulled a 90 degree turn and followed him up. Now at 600 in most planes I wouldnt shoot but with anything with M2s.....Im lighting them up which I did....he got in the sun..bad luck. He came on 200 surprised as hell....he dropped 5K onto me and I followed him right up. Is the flight model wrong? I don't Know...if it isnt? That plane doesn't deserve a 30 eny because its one of the better planes in the pack.
Compare a Brew to a BF109G6
Other then speed and climb rate what does the G6 have on the Brewster? Like any other 109 is terrible at taking damage...rads get hit almost as bad as Typhoons. Yes the G6 has cannon but they are very innacurate and you have to sacrifice preformance even for the 200 gun package, brew has 4 M2s with 1200 50 cal round...thats not bad IMO. Brew has turn rate and roll rate. Brew handles A TON better at high speed and dives faster without compression. K/D are comaparable but I believe thats like the K4 or P38...the same people fly them over and over. Brewster is flown alot more then the G6.
Which needs to be changed? Does the G6 need to have a 35 eny or does the Brew need a 20ish eny?......cough Brew cough
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true...But I have been flying it Wmaker. Krupnski and I upped and went into a furball....he scored 6 kills I scored 7.
I will never say it isn't easy mode. I had a guy in a F4U dive on me, I started a shallow dive and became almost =E. He overshot on me when I turn and went vertical...I stayed right with him even after I pulled a 90 degree turn and followed him up. Now at 600 in most planes I wouldnt shoot but with anything with M2s.....Im lighting them up which I did....he got in the sun..bad luck. He came on 200 surprised as hell....he dropped 5K onto me and I followed him right up. Is the flight model wrong? I don't Know...if it isnt? That plane doesn't deserve a 30 eny because its one of the better planes in the pack.
Compare a Brew to a BF109G6
Other then speed and climb rate what does the G6 have on the Brewster? Like any other 109 is terrible at taking damage...rads get hit almost as bad as Typhoons. Yes the G6 has cannon but they are very innacurate and you have to sacrifice preformance even for the 200 gun package, brew has 4 M2s with 1200 50 cal round...thats not bad IMO. Brew has turn rate and roll rate. Brew handles A TON better at high speed and dives faster without compression. K/D are comaparable but I believe thats like the K4 or P38...the same people fly them over and over. Brewster is flown alot more then the G6.
Which needs to be changed? Does the G6 need to have a 35 eny or does the Brew need a 20ish eny?......cough Brew cough
Unfortunately, a level headed discussion about the Brewster is practically impossible on this board.
Just like I said.
Junky, try reading this with thought (if possible): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory)
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Just like I said.
Junky, try reading this with thought (if possible): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory)
Unfortunately, a level headed discussion about the Brewster is practically impossible on this board.
You mean to contradict yourself there?(I read the link)
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Blatantly hypocritical Wmaker :rofl
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Blatantly hypocritical Wmaker :rofl
Please elaborate?
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You mean to contradict yourself there?(I read the link)
I don't contradict myself in anyway.
Point being, that any anecdotal "evidence" you post is utterly worthless. You should have realized that by now.
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You decry the fact that there is no level headed brewster convos, but you are arrogant and slightly insulting in several Brewster threads.
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Compare a Brew to a BF109G6
Just look a g-6 vs Brew duel. Co-alt, almost co-E deck merge. The only thing a g-6 can do is extend and climb, couse even if he pulls almost straight up, the brew will able to catch him with its superior zoom ability, aim well due to its superior low speed handling and kill the g-6 with those 50cals.
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Just look a g-6 vs Brew duel. Co-alt, almost co-E deck merge. The only thing a g-6 can do is extend and climb, couse even if he pulls almost straight up, the brew will able to catch him with its superior zoom ability, aim well due to its superior low speed handling and kill the g-6 with those 50cals.
dont fall for the trap of going up.
try to catch him off guard or when hes flying straight and get into his 6 where he cant see for crap
after you shoot him down run to the fridge for a beer and a pie
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I don't contradict myself in anyway.
Point being, that any anecdotal "evidence" you post is utterly worthless. You should have realized that by now.
Where did the flight model specifics for AH on the brew come from Wmaker?
JUGgler
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You decry the fact that there is no level headed brewster convos, but you are arrogant and slightly insulting in several Brewster threads.
Actually I'm not. The problem is with the poeple who are unable to do the slightest bit of reaserach before theyr come into the discussion. Thus, they are totally ignorant regarding the subject itself.
There's no way to discuss with such people.
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Where did the flight model specifics for AH on the brew come from Wmaker?
I have an idea what data was used in the making of the AH Brewster's flight model. But all I have is guesses in the end...regarding which data was used and which was not. Anyway, why are you asking me about something you should be asking from HTC? And I can tell you from experience/history that they aren't gonna sit down with you and explain how the flight model came to be, nor will they have to.
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It would be nice to know their sources... on a lot of planes, not just the brewster.
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I have an idea what data was used in the making of the AH Brewster's flight model. But all I have is guesses in the end...regarding which data was used and which was not. Anyway, why are you asking me about something you should be asking from HTC? And I can tell you from experience/history that they aren't gonna sit down with you and explain how the flight model came to be, nor will they have to.
Hmm, just asking man! You defend it plenty I just thought you would know.
A joint and a shot of tequila will ease your stress a bit man!! ;)
JUGgler
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It would be nice to know their sources... on a lot of planes, not just the brewster.
I am sure any current or future competitor would love to know as well.
My advice, if you can come up with flight test data that contradicts the flight test data then by all means, send it to HTC. Barring the lack of any such data, just figure out what the differint planes do in "the game" and fly them to their strengths and against their weaknesses.
The Brewster is a lot of fun to fly and thats the bottom line for me.
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Hmm, just asking man! You defend it plenty I just thought you would know.
My point is that me and others did sent primary source material about the Brewster to Pyro but I never really discussed or suggested anything regarding the flight model. Pyro is very good at what he does so I just let him work in peace.
These are among the primary sources sent to Pyro:
- Brewster Aeronautical Corporation Report 350: Detail Specification for Model 239 Airplane Class VF
- Brewster Aeronautical Corporation Report 353: Pilot's Handbook for Model 239 Airplane
- Report No.B.A.1689. (July, 1941), Handling tests on Buffalo (Brewster A.S.430)
I would guess that these were probably the main sources used in the modelling.
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:furious yall leave my Brewster alone...... :P
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:furious yall leave my Brewster alone...... :P
What he said..
You know,I dont know if it is just me,but I havent seen as many flying as I have seen in the last 3 weeks or so...I just started flying it because I didnt see many,now they are everywhere..
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Maybe it's just me, but I notice that whenever a bird becomes a major topic of discussion there just seems to be more of them in the air. Like the Ta152 a couple of weeks ago. Used to be you'd see one of those like once a month if you were lucky (or unlucky) now there's at least one or two buzzing around every day.
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Muzzy, we just had an FSO with Ta152s in limited numbers, and we are approaching a scenario with them as well.
I think people practicing their ride for the Special Events Arena might have something to do with that.
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EDIT: Stupid forums spazzing out again! Happens every night!
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152s take pwn to land lots of kills in them... :rock
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Don't confuse US Navy Brewster performance info with that of the plane the Finns used. The Finish Brewster is what we have in AH. It also maybe why this Brewster is not available on our CVs. I do know that the Finns started replacing the Brewster with the M-109s in 42-43.
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(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/Vuduvince/ahss79.jpg)
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you got very lucky there vudu.
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you got very lucky there vudu.
How did you come to that conclusion ?
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How did you come to that conclusion ?
I am almost certain it is me. He shot me down and I caught on fire. I hit my engine button by mistake on the way up and did not realize it until I was at the top of a yo-yo and my plane fell on its back. I did not hear the engine cut off because I had music on. By the time I recovered he was in a position to shoot me.
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Honestly Kilo, by your description sounds more like your mistake than his luck Sir. :aok
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I am almost certain it is me. He shot me down and I caught on fire. I hit my engine button by mistake on the way up and did not realize it until I was at the top of a yo-yo and my plane fell on its back. I did not hear the engine cut off because I had music on. By the time I recovered he was in a position to shoot me.
So he was lucky that you screwed up ? :rofl ... In that case, every single kill that I have gotten in the past 9 years was "lucky" I guess.
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He was very lucky I hit my engine button.
It had nothing to do with making a wrong move and everything to do with what amounts to a typo.
slapshot grasping for straws.
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He was very lucky I hit my engine button.
It had nothing to do with making a wrong move and everything to do with what amounts to a typo.
slapshot grasping for straws.
:rofl
So hitting the engine kill switch is not making a wrong move ... :huh ... and you know for a fact that had you not killed your engine, he just might have sent you to the tower in 2 more moves.
Who's grasping for straws ?
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You know it really does not matter.
I told you what happened if you think that has anything to do with ACM or the fight you're daft to take a British colloquialism.
It is of course the one time anything like this has ever happened and it is a picture on the forum.
You're a pretty good troll for someone I do not know.
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You know it really does not matter.
I told you what happened if you think that has anything to do with ACM or the fight you're daft to take a British colloquialism.
It is of course the one time anything like this has ever happened and it is a picture on the forum.
You're a pretty good troll for someone I do not know.
You could be quite daft thinking that the outcome of that fight was a forgone conclusion, in your favor, had you not mistakenly hit the engine kill switch. Maybe you were lucky that his cat farted 30 seconds before that fight began and because his eyes were watering he didn't kill you before he got lucky that you killed your engine while listening to blaring music.
You lost and luck had nothing to do with.
Your a pretty good excuse maker for someone I don't know.
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You could be quite daft thinking that the outcome of that fight was a forgone conclusion, in your favor, had you not mistakenly hit the engine kill switch. Maybe you were lucky that his cat farted 30 seconds before that fight began and because his eyes were watering he didn't kill you before he got lucky that you killed your engine while listening to blaring music.
You lost and luck had nothing to do with.
Your a pretty good excuse maker for someone I don't know.
First time in my aces high time I have ever made any excuse for losing a fight. To me it would be the same as you having your throttle control go out right after you chop it.
I would end up killing you but was it really a victory? I wouldn't think so.
Every time I up a plane I believe its a forgone conclusion I am going to win. Does that always happen? No it does not. Is it my fault I die, yes. Was it my fault when vudu shot me down yes but it
had nothing to do with fighting. I hit a button without realizing it and it gave him the advantage, nothing he worked for. I held all the cards at the stage in the fight it happened which is why he
would be lucky.
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First time in my aces high time I have ever made any excuse for losing a fight. To me it would be the same as you having your throttle control go out right after you chop it.
I would end up killing you but was it really a victory? I wouldn't think so.
Every time I up a plane I believe its a forgone conclusion I am going to win. Does that always happen? No it does not. Is it my fault I die, yes. Was it my fault when vudu shot me down yes but it
had nothing to do with fighting. I hit a button without realizing it and it gave him the advantage nothing he worked for. I held all the cards at the stage in the fight it happened which is why he
would be lucky.
First time in my aces high time I have ever made any excuse for losing a fight. ... great ... why start now ?
To me it would be the same as you having your throttle control go out right after you chop it.
I would end up killing you but was it really a victory? I wouldn't think so. ... I am sure that there many WWII pilots that lost there life to malfunction(s) during a dogfight and paid the ultimate price ... and whoever downed them as a result ... placed a kill sticker on their plane for sure.
I hit a button without realizing it ... so YOU made a mistake ... not him. So it would be more along the lines that you were UN-LUCKY. Your mistake does not transfer LUCK to him ... it's all on you. You, in essence, are saying that vudu really didn't have a chance at all without YOU killing YOUR engine ... it's ludicrous to say the least if not insulting.
I held all the cards at the stage in the fight it happened which is why he would be lucky. ... I can't tell you how many times planes that held all the cards that have thought that the lonely and lowly FM2 was a forgone kill in their pelt pouch ... only to find themselves sitting back in the tower ... and LUCK had nothing to do with it ... they simply screwed up and paid the price for it.
Attributing a loss to someone else's luck, especially when you caused it, is total bollocks, to take a British colloquialism.
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uhh on a completely different not has anyone noticed the brewster on the clock in the tower.
This is not world war 2 its a game slap
I made a mistake he is lucky I made that mistake.
We are not going to agree thats fine. He killed me I said way to go then, way to go now.
He knows what happened I know what happened and that all that matters.
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Honestly Kilo, by your description sounds more like your mistake than his luck Sir. :aok
But by the screenshot it looks like he could have been avoiding an HO and the brew is shooting from where he cant actually see...below his nose, but thats something the screenshot wont show. Brew has pretty good page up for seeing the harder shots.
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Yes sukov that is you but I was aiming for Junky... If i had some of him would have posted em. Yes I did get lucky on that shot you killed your engine and I caught ya when you stalled no great skill on my part just bad luck for you. that fight had been goin on a while prior to this. Now the rest of you goons can lay off.
But by the screenshot it looks like he could have been avoiding an HO and the brew is shooting from where he cant actually see...below his nose, but thats something the screenshot wont show. Brew has pretty good page up for seeing the harder shots.
what kinda half rate goon crap are you talkin about, If I did half the crap these "aces" do or flew with half the equipment they had yall would be tryin to get rid of the Brewster not just make it worse.
honestly never crossed my mind to have a view position to look over the nose to shoot at people, hence the reason their called blind shots. what is this Heroes over Europe or something? well try this one on for size another blind shot.
(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff442/Vuduvince/ahss59.jpg)
I musta been avoiding that HO as well. P.S. Junky I would be embarrassed to say I lost a HO toa Brew while drivin a 152. So you can lay off with your sideways remarks.
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Easy killer....everyone pages up to see under their nose...all I'm pointing out to waystin is that a screenshot alone doesn't show what actually happened.
When we going to DA in Brews btw? Want to see how you compare to other brew flyers to see if your even worth the time... :airplane:
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lol dont feel bad I lost a HO to a zero while in a hurri lol shows ya how much I HO.....haha
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I've been here for a couple of weeks on my own account and have played a bit on my brothers account.
I was told Brew was a good learner plane, I'm astonished by the number of people that find an excuse to shoot me in the face. Everything has better guns, everything is faster, and yet I got "you deserve to be ho'd for picking an overmodelled plane"
If it's that bleedin good why isn't everyone flying one? And don't tell me its because the Brewster isn't challenging enough to fly.
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ignore what people say.....especially when it comes to plane choice....there are no dweeb planes, just dweeb sticks..............,game etiquette thats something you might want to give an ear to.
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ignore what people say.....especially when it comes to plane choice....there are no dweeb planes, just dweeb sticks..............,game etiquette thats something you might want to give an ear to.
Apologies Sir, I was unaware I was guilty of lacking etiquette, have I misunderstood?
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Easy killer....everyone pages up to see under their nose...
well I dont so I guess you can change that to everyone but Vudu.....
and to the DA point I guess since it would foolish of me to leave that remark unchecked, you pick parameters for the fight and if it suits you next week some time.
as I'm in Germany and Ive have weird hours right now as I'm flying alot.
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moochin~ I was not impying you dont.....if your new which I believe you said you were, then that would be the one thing to listen to. Sorry for confusion
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Aaaaah, my apologies. Thank you :salute
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Hi all,
I belonged to the RAAF453 Squadron in CFS1 and 2 when they were around and we had a lot of info on the various planes that squadron flew druing WWII both in the Pacific and European theaters. The Brewster Buffalo was one of those planes, so here's some info that we had on it:
The Brewster Buffalo was originally designed as the first carrier-based single-wing US fighter. That was called the Brewster F2A. The land based models were the B339 and B439. These variants were flown by the RAAF, the RAF and the Dutch. The B239 was the export model of the 339D that was sent to Finland and Europe. The B339E that the RAF flew had the 900 hp engine with armored canopies, and that was the version with the worst performance.
The Dutch (Royal Dutch Indonesian Army or KNIL) flew the B339D and 72 of those were delivered to them in March 1941, but only 30 were airworthy on December 8, 1941. The B339D had the Wright G 105A engine rated at 1100 hp. The B439 had the Wright GR-1820-G205A engine which delivered 1200 HP at the start and 1000HP at 14,200 ft. The Dutch had both the B339D and the B439, but there only had about 20 of the higher performance B439 model. The RAAF flew the B339D. The B239 was the lighter weight export version that was sent to Finland with the same basic engine as the B339D. That model had stripped out some of the landing gear reinforcement that was originally designed to handle the shock of aircraft carrier landings, as well as other weight saving reductions. This stripped down lighter weight version had better performance than the standard B339D.
The B339D was the variant that was flown by the Australians in Malaya and Singapore. The RAAF453 as well as other squadrons flew them there and did well against the Japanese Oscars that were most common early in the war. They could also turn with the zeros when they appeared, but they couldn't climb with them, out-dive or outrun them. MOST of the B-339 Brewsters that the RAAF and Dutch flew were destroyed on the ground when the Japanese located their airfields and bombed them, not in aerial combat.
One of the big problems with all the Brewsters, a reason it was called unreliable, was that they all used cables instead of steel push-rods to connect to their control surfaces. Granted, it may be a little difficult to hit a cable, but one bullet would snap it and you'd lose control of an aileron, elevator, rudder or trim controls. Even a bigger problem at the start was that they Aussie and Dutch Buffaloes didn't have bullet-proof glass in the front windshield. They had armor on the back but not the front. The RAF versions had it and eventually the Aussie and Dutch ones got them too.
The P-40 was sent to the RAAF after the fall of Singapore and Malaysia, and that became the standard plane for the RAAF in the Pacific. The P-40 couldn't turn with the zero, but it could outroll them, outdive them, and outrun them. So the Brewster wasn't used anymore in the Pacific once the P-40's arrived. Spitfires in Mark IIa, Mark V and Mark IX variants were also used by the Aussies in the Pacific, though the RAAF453 was sent to Europe.
Spits
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very good info, Thank you Sir! :salute
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I love the brewster. plain and simple. I love it when I get the "overconfident" spit drivers (especially spixteens) to commit. I love wearing down the BnZ guys attempts to get a good shot on me, only to make the fatal mistake of taking that one hard turn after pass 5 or 6. I enjoy the 3v1 engagements where my SA is tested to the max. Sometimes I live, lot's of times I don't. BUT.. I get better. I'm not the best pilot in the game, those that have fought with me/against me know better, but I am NOT one to need an overmodeled "crutch" to play the game. The fact is that those of YOU that are complaining of an overmodeled aircraft have a pride issue to deal with. A "hole" has been exposed in your game, and you are struggling to fill that void. Your weakness has coaxed you into believing "there is no way such a "easymode" plane could shoot ME down.". So you've decided to scour the internet looking for any bit of information to validate your supposed point. Here's some advice.. stop whining. get better. figure it out. and kill (if you can) that "big bad brewster".
DMTSgt
BREWMASTER :rock
<S> Falcon23 fellow BREWMASTER
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Apologies Sir, I was unaware I was guilty of lacking etiquette, have I misunderstood?
You've done nothing wrong, let those that you shoot down whine about being shot down by an "over modeled Brewster" and just laugh at them. Anyone that thinks the Brewster is over modeled complains as such because their ego can't take getting their bellybutton handed back to them by what is really an obsolete plane and it rankles the dead that they were out flown in their late war birds by such a crappy small plane.
People have a tendency in this game to claim the plane that shot them down is over modeled when the true reason was they were just outflown by a superior pilot.
ack-ack
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I love the brewster. plain and simple. I love it when I get the "overconfident" spit drivers (especially spixteens) to commit. I love wearing down the BnZ guys attempts to get a good shot on me, only to make the fatal mistake of taking that one hard turn after pass 5 or 6. I enjoy the 3v1 engagements where my SA is tested to the max. Sometimes I live, lot's of times I don't. BUT.. I get better. I'm not the best pilot in the game, those that have fought with me/against me know better, but I am NOT one to need an overmodeled "crutch" to play the game. The fact is that those of YOU that are complaining of an overmodeled aircraft have a pride issue to deal with. A "hole" has been exposed in your game, and you are struggling to fill that void. Your weakness has coaxed you into believing "there is no way such a "easymode" plane could shoot ME down.". So you've decided to scour the internet looking for any bit of information to validate your supposed point. Here's some advice.. stop whining. get better. figure it out. and kill (if you can) that "big bad brewster".
DMTSgt
BREWMASTER :rock
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOT
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You've done nothing wrong, let those that you shoot down whine about being shot down by an "over modeled Brewster" and just laugh at them. Anyone that thinks the Brewster is over modeled complains as such because their ego can't take getting their bellybutton handed back to them by what is really an obsolete plane and it rankles the dead that they were out flown in their late war birds by such a crappy small plane.
People have a tendency in this game to claim the plane that shot them down is over modeled when the true reason was they were just outflown by a superior pilot.
ack-ack
I agree :aok the other day a brew dropped on my 6 he came down from maybe a 3 k advantage, I avoided his rounds and just flew away from him after a bit of jinxin and he had no way to touch me, i was in K4, the brew is a great little plane but I don't see it as being "over modeled"
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I agree :aok the other day a brew dropped on my 6 he came down from maybe a 3 k advantage, I avoided his rounds and just flew away from him after a bit of jinxin and he had no way to touch me, i was in K4, the brew is a great little plane but I don't see it as being "over modeled"
Agreed you just gotta know how to fight them :aok
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The best a brew has ever looked.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/3130940316_dbfb72ff87.jpg)
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The best a brew has ever looked.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/3130940316_dbfb72ff87.jpg)
i would argue that....the best its ever looked is when its not there!
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The best a brew has ever looked.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/3130940316_dbfb72ff87.jpg)
Is that the only brew ever restored? I have Berber seen a recent photo of one
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Is that the only brew ever restored? I have Berber seen a recent photo of one
this is from wikipedia, take it for what it is. lol.
"
Surviving Brewster Buffalo are extremely rare, as their construction quality was generally poor; most were quickly sold off for scrap or service in other countries. There are currently three surviving Buffalos (1 Finnish, 1 ML-KNIL and 1 US Navy), of which two are replicas.
Besides the Humu prototype, the hood and fin (with 41 kills) of FAF BW-393 survive in a Finnish museum; FAF BW-372 is on display at the Keski-Suomen Ilmailumuseo (Aviation Museum of Central Finland).[51]
In mid-1998, a Finnish B-239 (serial no. BW-372) crash-landed by FAF Lt. Lauri Pekuri was discovered in a lake, Big Kolejärvi, about 31 mi (50 km) from Segezha, Russia. The aircraft was recovered from the lake in 1998, and was transported to the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, Florida, USA on 18 August 2004. In early 2008 the aircraft was lent to the Aviation Museum of Central Finland for the 90th anniversary of the Finnish Air Force.[51]
In July 2008, a replica B-339C was completed by the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Long Island, New York. The aircraft carries the markings of an ML-KNIL fighter flown by Lt. Gerard Bruggink (two kills). It was built for the Militaire-Luchtvaartmuseum (Military Aviation Museum) at Soesterberg, the Netherlands.[51][52] The Cradle of Aviation Museum houses a replica F2A-2, carrying the markings of a unit from VS-201, aboard USS Long Island.[53]
[edit]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Buffalo paragraph labeled "survivors"
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Is the removal of armor in the finnish version modeled in aces high?
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Is the removal of armor in the finnish version modeled in aces high?
With all the 20mm they're able to soak up it does make you wonder..... :noid :noid :noid
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Is the removal of armor in the finnish version modeled in aces high?
Why should it be? Should they be modeled also without gunsight and machine guns?
Pilot armour, other protective armour, self sealing fuel tanks, gunsight and machine guns and other equipment that was removed before delivering the planes were installed to the Brewsters in Finland by State Aircraft Factory.
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Why should it be? Should they be modeled also without gunsight and machine guns?
Pilot armour, other protective armour, self sealing fuel tanks, gunsight and machine guns and other equipment that was removed before delivering the planes were installed to the Brewsters in Finland by State Aircraft Factory.
where do you get this information? propaganda leaflets?
the factory pilot armor was not replaced...it was just a 50lbs piece of steel plate behind the seat...there was no other armor put in place.
what self sealing fuel tanks? the original f2a1 didn't have them from the factory, where would the finns get them?
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where do you get this information? propaganda leaflets?
the factory pilot armor was not replaced...it was just a 50lbs piece of steel plate behind the seat...there was no other armor put in place.
what self sealing fuel tanks? the original f2a1 didn't have them from the factory, where would the finns get them?
Is the wikipedia article wrong in saying the Finns *added* seat armor and 4x .50s?
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The pilot armour can be seen here below right wing, next to aluminum seat.
(http://personal.inet.fi/koti/kuviasuomesta/Air_Museum_Tikkakoski_Brewster0_BW372.JPG)
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2384153330_ce5fe30b94_b.jpg)
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Good pic Mipo!
That's all the armour that got added to the Brewster by the Finns.
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IIRC they did plan to add self-sealing compound to wing tanks but realized that as a very difficult job because the tanks were integrated to wing structure so they did not do it after all.
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