Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tom5572 on December 30, 2010, 02:30:28 AM
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It is a thought.
Many WWII fliers died when belly landing on the runway because a spark ignited their fuel. What if it were coded into the game where some belly landings would be catastrophic for the pilot and plane. The possibility of a catastrophic belly landing would be reduced by a grass belly landing at the field coupled with a reduced ditch penalty (the reduced penalty would only count if the plane was ditched within the limits of the air field). The pilot who had the most damage on the plane attempting belly land would get the kill.
If a plane were belly landed with a fuel leak the risk of a catastrophic fire would be increased. If a plane belly landed with no or minimal damage the risk would be there but randomized. I think it would create another element of immersion to game play. This would create an incentive to actually landing instead of bellying in every time. One could belly land without penalty or with, it would be a risk they would have to assume.
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I have slid in and lit her up or died before. I think this may already be coded. Waiting for Lusche the AH Librarian...
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and a chart... oh I hope he does a line chart on this one.. I like line charts
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It all depends on how fast you're going and your rate of descent whether you blow up or catch fire. Nothing needs to be changed. I don't need the randomness of "a fire because you landed on your belly" - it would add nothing to immersion.
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I am going to say no, I belly land every plane expescially one with damage, I belly land 262's every time don't wanna waste the time to wait fr the stop. Also I think it will just make more people angry to try land there planes
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what about the Me-163? when you take off your drop your gears then you have to use a slide pad. What then?
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if you have enough damage, you can take fire when landing.
I did in a Zero. :joystick:
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I was taught in the event of a real crash landing, to try and aim between two trees in order to rip the wings off the aircraft to both slow you down faster, and distance yourself from the fuel tanks. Doubt this wish will ever come true, but I like it :)
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There is a rather horrifying description of such a belly landing in "Terror in the Starboard Seat".
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what about the Me-163? when you take off your drop your gears then you have to use a slide pad. What then?
If you've taken the time to fly the 163, you'd have known that by the time you land a 163 there isn't any fuel.
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I have read about them and they were horrifying. The 163 was designed to land on its skid so it would be exempted from this. I belly land myself often as well, particularly when landing at an airfield with many bad guys. My intent was for a little more added realism.
If you try to land faster than 180 you will crash and die, if you land with too much decent, you will die.
I am looking for the added realism. I belly land often enough myself.
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If you've taken the time to fly the 163, you'd have known that by the time you land a 163 there isn't any fuel.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, yet I learned atomized fuel is more flammable than liquid fuel.
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hmmm...I think it's always a fine balance between reality and playability...afterall...REAL war is hardly fun... :aok
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nm
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You really think a fire is more realistic? You really think it's the norm?
No fire, not even a spark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVmHyJMDcus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVmHyJMDcus)
No fire, a little smoke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuKgAcOD2Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuKgAcOD2Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZZvNmt57rE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZZvNmt57rE&feature=related)
No fire. Two gear down, one up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnGgMSCpu2A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnGgMSCpu2A&feature=related)
No fire. Some sparks. Got the #1 wire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ak3gBImhLI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ak3gBImhLI&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNMcs4-29Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNMcs4-29Y)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfoxq4q4J84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfoxq4q4J84)
No fire(s):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDq-smSkas&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDq-smSkas&feature=related)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJCxn7y3_c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJCxn7y3_c&feature=related)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOvSYfBNOU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOvSYfBNOU&feature=related)
Two fires, the only ones I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpCLeWqY0w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpCLeWqY0w&feature=related)
I think it's more realistic the way it is already.
wrongway
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Realistic or not, I think it's a good idea. I am a habitual belly lander because there really is no incentive to land with your wheels. If your plane burst into flames as result of a poor landing, I think it would help encourage a less 'gamey' way of landing quickly to save time.
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People pay to have fun, not get penalized for deciding to re-up as quickly as possible. As others have mentioned, landing SAPP style does come with consequences. Leave things the way they are.
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Contrary to the silly arguments that belly landings are completely safe, you have a great idea. I might even decide to post 20 you tube videos showing the real dangers of belly landings..... Nah, it doesnt take a genius to know that belly landing a combat aircraft is a huge gamble.
Did anyone check the fuel gauges of the planes in those videos? Did the combat aircraft in those films have any ords left, or rounds in the guns? Did they have battle damage that that compromised the strength of the aircraft in a critical spot or a golden BB strike that waits until the crews hopes are at the highest point thinking they are going to live until an explosion takes them at the last moment.
These things happened thousands of times during the war. They were not safe and rarely had the picture perfect conditions of a youtube video.
Your idea is well thought out. I like the idea of increasing probability of fire with more damage especially with fuel leak.
And as Grizz pointed out, we have no incentive whatsoever to fear for our lives or that of the aircraft which is extremely gamey. There is "a fine line between fun and war" and different games draw that line at different levels. I'd prefer a game thats harder and more realistic than 'Blazing Angels'
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You really think a fire is more realistic? You really think it's the norm?
No fire, not even a spark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVmHyJMDcus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVmHyJMDcus)
No fire, a little smoke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuKgAcOD2Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuKgAcOD2Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZZvNmt57rE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZZvNmt57rE&feature=related)
No fire. Two gear down, one up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnGgMSCpu2A&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnGgMSCpu2A&feature=related)
No fire. Some sparks. Got the #1 wire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ak3gBImhLI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ak3gBImhLI&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNMcs4-29Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNMcs4-29Y)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfoxq4q4J84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfoxq4q4J84)
No fire(s):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDq-smSkas&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDq-smSkas&feature=related)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJCxn7y3_c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJCxn7y3_c&feature=related)
No fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOvSYfBNOU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bOvSYfBNOU&feature=related)
Two fires, the only ones I found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpCLeWqY0w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpCLeWqY0w&feature=related)
I think it's more realistic the way it is already.
wrongway
I guess when your education comes from youtube, it's easy to miss some pages like this one. Pay particular attention to 4:40 to 6:10 "...Your biggest danger..." Correction 5:40-6:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVUZZjuDHw
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theres something in one of spike milligans biographies where he talks about how wwII differed from the movie version, something like I must have seen 20 planes crash and not one of them burst into flames.
the jug had a hardened belly section specifically for belly landing, any other planes have this designed in? :headscratch:
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20 is not much of an example. And it could be a fact that it's better than 1 in a million odds, but I guarantee you could make diamonds with your bellybutton cheeks if it was you that had to do it! In any case, you and Milligan can argue with Aanenson all you want!
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The jug routed turbocharger pipes along the belly.. I think it was necessary. Most other planes had airframe right there to take the shock.
A large number of WW2 planes landed damaged or belly landed with no fire.
Simply adding fire to "make people use their landing gear" is foolish. It punishes folks that actually have damage for an inconsequential reason.
You want folks to land with their gear down? You can no more control that than you can making them fly with combat trim vs manual trim, or to make them land with their engine off vs engine idled.
It makes no difference in the end. You pay their $15 a month and then they'll listen to ya!
P.S. It's not as bad as you think. Hell I've even seen youtube of a Cessna pilot that landed and forgot to lower gear. Makes a loud noise but other than prop damage (if that, depends on the plane!) mostly it's a very safe thing to do*
* = assuming it's not with something big under the wings, like a 262 where the engines can rip off by digging in -- but these cases seem rare
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theres something in one of spike milligans biographies where he talks about how wwII differed from the movie version, something like I must have seen 20 planes crash and not one of them burst into flames.
the jug had a hardened belly section specifically for belly landing, any other planes have this designed in? :headscratch:
Holmes,
Respectfully, The hardened belly was added to the C model onwards for DTs and bomb shackles, with the added benefit of being belly landing friendly~ as opposed to the P-51 which was a guaranteed disaster bellying in with its big air intake scoop. The super turbocharger ducts ran along the inside of belly of the 47 which also gave it additional protection. If done well 47s that bellied in were repaired and put back into service rather quickly. And they were damn tough...
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So let me get this straight, I'm limping my B17 home with it's landing gear shot out and as soon as I touch the runway it should burst into flames and explode?
Ummm....no....do not want. -1
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It's been my experience that belly landing on a paved surface usually tears a plane up much less than landing
in the grass. I've seen many gearup landings with both piston engines and jets. Not one caught fire...that's over a
28 year career.
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This pilot's 500lb deployed on takeoff, and detonated. He survived the blast in his P-47 :eek:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/Blownup.jpg)
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Contrary to the silly arguments that belly landings are completely safe, you have a great idea. I might even decide to post 20 you tube videos showing the real dangers of belly landings..... Nah, it doesnt take a genius to know that belly landing a combat aircraft is a huge gamble.
Did anyone check the fuel gauges of the planes in those videos? Did the combat aircraft in those films have any ords left, or rounds in the guns? Did they have battle damage that that compromised the strength of the aircraft in a critical spot or a golden BB strike that waits until the crews hopes are at the highest point thinking they are going to live until an explosion takes them at the last moment.
These things happened thousands of times during the war. They were not safe and rarely had the picture perfect conditions of a youtube video.
Your idea is well thought out. I like the idea of increasing probability of fire with more damage especially with fuel leak.
And as Grizz pointed out, we have no incentive whatsoever to fear for our lives or that of the aircraft which is extremely gamey. There is "a fine line between fun and war" and different games draw that line at different levels. I'd prefer a game thats harder and more realistic than 'Blazing Angels'
Muzik, the majority of this community isn't playing for realism. If they were, they wouldn't attempt Head-On passes or fire on Spitfires while flying P-51's. You're quite welcome to fly as realistically as you wish. Let others fly as they wish.
"To each their own."
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Realistic or not, I think it's a good idea. I am a habitual belly lander because there really is no incentive to land with your wheels. If your plane burst into flames as result of a poor landing, I think it would help encourage a less 'gamey' way of landing quickly to save time.
But I would guess it wouldn't deter you anymore then it would me as I could care less about points and I don't really die no matter what.
The guys who are worried about points and score are going to land it right just to make sure they don't lose them.
Bottom line is it would be a waste of coding time :)
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Nevermind
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Muzik, the majority of this community isn't playing for realism. If they were, they wouldn't attempt Head-On passes or fire on Spitfires while flying P-51's. You're quite welcome to fly as realistically as you wish. Let others fly as they wish.
"To each their own."
LOL "wouldnt make HO passes" If you have a degree in history, take it back and get a refund! Nothing else you said make sense because 1-I didnt tell anyone how to fly, the subject is actually about LANDING! and 2-the case was not made for strict realism, (hitech doesnt believe in it) it was made for game play! Next time you might need someone to explain it to you.
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LOL "wouldnt make HO passes" If you have a degree in history, take it back and get a refund! Nothing else you said make sense because 1-I didnt tell anyone how to fly, the subject is actually about LANDING! and 2-the case was not made for strict realism, (hitech doesnt believe in it) it was made for game play! Next time you might need someone to explain it to you.
muzik really love you man, but you misunderstood your own post, then his.
in your original post you mentioned "we have no incentive whatsoever to fear for our lives or that of the aircraft which is extremely gamey" which contradicts what is highlighted above. sorry bro but you're contradicting yourself.
semp
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This pilot's 500lb deployed on takeoff, and detonated. He survived the blast in his P-47 :eek:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/Blownup.jpg)
umm ... wow! :eek:
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And yet..... no fire.....
:noid
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It is a thought.
Many WWII fliers died when belly landing on the runway because a spark ignited their fuel. What if it were coded into the game where some belly landings would be catastrophic for the pilot and plane. The possibility of a catastrophic belly landing would be reduced by a grass belly landing at the field coupled with a reduced ditch penalty (the reduced penalty would only count if the plane was ditched within the limits of the air field). The pilot who had the most damage on the plane attempting belly land would get the kill.
If a plane were belly landed with a fuel leak the risk of a catastrophic fire would be increased. If a plane belly landed with no or minimal damage the risk would be there but randomized. I think it would create another element of immersion to game play. This would create an incentive to actually landing instead of bellying in every time. One could belly land without penalty or with, it would be a risk they would have to assume.
a friend of mine that flew p51's in ww2 had to ditch his pony. he was instructed to land off-base to avoid just this.
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i'm pretty sure you can catch on fire belly landing in game.. I saw it happen to an old squaddie a few years ago. its rare but apparently can happen.
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i'm pretty sure you can catch on fire belly landing in game.. I saw it happen to an old squaddie a few years ago. its rare but apparently can happen.
i think hitech may have toned it down or taken it out, or it may have even been a bug during a big update that was fixed. I remember belly landing then hearing some one say i was on fire then boom lol. i think it was when the new F6F came in and was breaking in half on landings. i do remember a few people crying because their 262's exploded because they didn't put their gear down.
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I guess when your education comes from youtube, it's easy to miss some pages like this one. Pay particular attention to 4:40 to 6:10 "...Your biggest danger..." Correction 5:40-6:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVUZZjuDHw
Synopsis of 5:40-6:10:
Don't land with bombs, they may drop off. (See pic a few posts back).
Battle Damaged aircraft land last as to not block the runway.
Greatest danger of belly landing - Plane exploding or digging in a wing. Not fire.
I don't know about you, but I explode often when belly landing.
i'm pretty sure you can catch on fire belly landing in game.. I saw it happen to an old squaddie a few years ago. its rare but apparently can happen.
Fuel leak + belly landing sometimes = fire.
And yet..... no fire.....
:noid
:rofl
Muzik, the majority of this community isn't playing for realism.
Bursting into fire when belly landing isn't about "realism". Sure it happens... sometimes.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Aircraft%20Profiles/GentileP-51crash.jpg)
No fire. It was a big "oops" too.
wrongway
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I still don't understand what this really adds to the game.
When a person comes in and belly lands, weather they have damage or not, their sortie is over. They cannot rearm and they can't lift off again, they can only tower out. Although fires burn pretty fast I'm betting most people will be able to stop and tower out before the fire blows up the plane. So that means in the end HTC would've "coaded" something that doesn't change anything since those people that belly land perfectly good airplanes would still do it.
Now if you come in at 200-250 MPH and hit the runway I can understand your plane catching fire and possibly blowing up, however, most battle damaged aircraft come in slowly with full flaps down and sometimes just barely flying above stalling speed when they belly land.
The only people this will really affect are going to be the people flying their crippled planes, it's not going to affect the guys that belly land a good plane just because they can tower out faster.
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I still don't understand what this really adds to the game.
When a person comes in and belly lands, weather they have damage or not, their sortie is over. They cannot rearm and they can't lift off again, they can only tower out. Although fires burn pretty fast I'm betting most people will be able to stop and tower out before the fire blows up the plane. So that means in the end HTC would've "coaded" sometime that doesn't change anything since those people that belly land perfectly good airplanes would still do it.
What it does is incentivises landing with a gear, the proper way to land.
I mentioned this on page 2 but you must not have read it.
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If i recall after one of the patches there was a bug that almost anytime you belly landed you would catch fire. I always belly landed before that and started to use my gear during that time.
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muzik really love you man, but you misunderstood your own post, then his.
in your original post you mentioned "we have no incentive whatsoever to fear for our lives or that of the aircraft which is extremely gamey" which contradicts what is highlighted above. sorry bro but you're contradicting yourself.
semp
Not so. If you'll check further back I referred to Grizzs post that we have little incentive to avoid belly landings. I didnt stress the point because it was already made. I reinforced that point by adding the "realism" argument and then again I said "not for strict realism." The truth is, it would be wise to make belly landings more frequent than real life.
Here is another argument that relates, but was never addressed. All of those "fireless wrecks that have been mentioned failed to take into account that many men died during "fireless" wrecks. Potential injury is something else we need not fear. So taken together the odds of dieing, catching fire, or career ending injuries was likely far greater than the chance you would walk away unharmed. Since it is ridiculous to suggest that injuries on landing be modeled, the risk factor for belly landing fires should include all of those risks in one simple probability, fires on landing.
There should be a good 25% chance of catching fire. If you suspect that you might catch fire, then you should bail out over your base , just as any aircrew or pilot would have had to do.
Greatest danger of belly landing - Plane exploding or digging in a wing. Not fire.
wrongway
No fire in explosions? :confused:
Your logic makes my head hurt. I wont even comment on the rest, it hurts bad enough as it is.
And yet..... no fire.....
:noid
You noticed there was no fire in that picture? Damn you got us. I guess that jugs only real problem was a acute sunburn on the fuselage and right wing.
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No fire in explosions? :confused:
only in hollywood is every explosion accompanied by a fireball. thats because pyro effects are alot easier and cheaper to film than shock waves, at least before cgi made cool detonation effects possible.
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only in hollywood is every explosion accompanied by a fireball. thats because pyro effects are alot easier and cheaper to film than shock waves, at least before cgi made cool detonation effects possible.
Walked out of my house one afternoon, and waved to my neighbor, who was a race mechanic (looked a lot like he belonged in ZZ Top). I turn and was about to near my car in the driveway, when the ground shook simultaneously with a bright flash of light. I turned to see my neighbor running for his water hose and dowsing himself and rubbing his face and beard. It took me more than a few seconds to spot the torch and tank that he had been standing next to. I ran over to see if he needed assistance, it was then that he was able to relay what had happened was an explosion that fortunately didn't ignite the tank but the fumes from a leaking connector. His face was singed but he was okay. I think there might have been a dry patch of grass or two burning but as Holmes said, no fireball.
As a video effect, it would be cool to see sparks when belly landing on runways, and water splashes when bellying in the water.
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Yes... because applying direct fire to a gasoline vapor is in any way comparable to a historically proven resistance to fire for WW2 planes landing.... </sarcasm>
Muzik, the facts don't add up for you on this one. You want it for a nonsensical reason. It won't help anybody. It's not historically accurate... it would be arbitrarily saying "Your wings fall off if you stay banked for 30 seconds without going level again" -- does nothing but hurt gameplay, is not historically accurate, and has no basis in fact.
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Here is another argument that relates, but was never addressed. All of those "fireless wrecks that have been mentioned failed to take into account that many men died during "fireless" wrecks. Potential injury is something else we need not fear. So taken together the odds of dieing, catching fire, or career ending injuries was likely far greater than the chance you would walk away unharmed. Since it is ridiculous to suggest that injuries on landing be modeled, the risk factor for belly landing fires should include all of those risks in one simple probability, fires on landing.
There should be a good 25% chance of catching fire. If you suspect that you might catch fire, then you should bail out over your base , just as any aircrew or pilot would have had to do.
No fire in explosions? :confused:
Your logic makes my head hurt. I wont even comment on the rest, it hurts bad enough as it is.
I have caught fire belly landing before. I explode often belly landing. Is there a fire? I don't know. I exploded.
Perhaps your wish is already in game?
wrongway
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The incident in "Terror in the Starboard Seat" where a Mosquito crew burned to death after a belly landing would, in AH world, have been a successful landing or a ditch on the base. As soon as it came to a stop, on fire, they simply would have done a .ef and ended the flight.
The fire on landing would have had no effect in AH world.
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Not denying no fires ever happened in WW2. Fully loaded bombers would often burst into flames upon crashing.
However, there's a difference between CRASHING and "sliding on the belly to land" -- and the two are not the same.
It's already modeled if you land too hard you pop. It's already modeled that you have to be so soft and so slow in order to touch down without your gear. It's not like you can do ANYTHING and belly land. Only thing this does is force players to play the way the guy requesting it wants. Same as the "no vulching" thread.
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Real fire effects could be simulated by random keystrokes anytime radio buffer is open.
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It's already modeled if you land too hard you pop. It's already modeled that you have to be so soft and so slow in order to touch down without your gear. It's not like you can do ANYTHING and belly land. Only thing this does is force players to play the way the guy requesting it wants. Same as the "no vulching" thread.
Belly landing is easier to do than gear landing. The only purpose to land with your gear in aces high is if you want to rearm. In any other application belly landing is the most logical way to land. Maybe more fires is not the solution, but that should not be the way it should be.
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Belly landing is easier to do than gear landing. The only purpose to land with your gear in aces high is if you want to rearm. In any other application belly landing is the most logical way to land. Maybe more fires is not the solution, but that should not be the way it should be.
Grizz I do agree that belly landing a perfectly good aircraft is pretty cheesy, however, I really don't see where we need to force people to land with their gear down. In AH we have unlimited aircraft so long as the hangers are up so banging up perfectly good aircraft has no affect on anything.
This wish goes back to the old "bombers should fly at reduced power" wishes. It's a wish to force an arbitrary way of gameplay that serves no real purpose. If a person wants to belly land they should be able to belly land, that's it.
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With that I disagree Beef.
There's giving folks what was available in real life.... then there's arbitrary....
THIS would be arbitrary. P.S. Grizz you're the only one saying nobody has any reason to land with gear down. 99% of the folks I see landing use gear in this game. It's popular for a big reason: folks want to do it, like to do it.
There's nothing stopping you from bailing the second you get a kill and reupping a fresh fully loaded plane. I don't see any rules/regulations being suggested to prevent this catastrophe that's RUINING the gameplay!!! </sarcasm>
It's only a problem to 1 or 2 folks, and they're alone on the matter. Doesn't affect them, doesn't affect us, doesn't affect anybody either way you model it.
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With that I disagree Beef.
There's giving folks what was available in real life.... then there's arbitrary....
THIS would be arbitrary. P.S. Grizz you're the only one saying nobody has any reason to land with gear down. 99% of the folks I see landing use gear in this game. It's popular for a big reason: folks want to do it, like to do it.
There's nothing stopping you from bailing the second you get a kill and reupping a fresh fully loaded plane. I don't see any rules/regulations being suggested to prevent this catastrophe that's RUINING the gameplay!!! </sarcasm>
It's only a problem to 1 or 2 folks, and they're alone on the matter. Doesn't affect them, doesn't affect us, doesn't affect anybody either way you model it.
Okay I agree. I will continue to land boatloads of kills and tear both wings off on landing to slow myself down to a screeching halt moments before the bad guys can kill me. :aok
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Okay I agree. I will continue to land boatloads of kills and tear both wings off on landing to slow myself down to a screeching halt moments before the bad guys can kill me. :aok
See? If people would just be clear in the beginning things would be so much simpler.
Wish:Catch fire and explode when belly landing so you can't screech to a stop moments before getting vulched and "land".
:huh
wrongway
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So it's about score, not about actual "realism"? See, figured as much!
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See? If people would just be clear in the beginning things would be so much simpler.
Wish:Catch fire and explode when belly landing so you can't screech to a stop moments before getting vulched and "land".
:huh
wrongway
So it's about score, not about actual "realism"? See, figured as much!
You must not have picked up on the tongue in cheek.
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Right back at ya... :lol
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=552_1297792559
Good video of a yak belly landing.....no fire.
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I watched someone belly-land, catch on fire and explode before he stopped skidding.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=552_1297792559
Good video of a yak belly landing.....no fire.
LOL thanks for that. And could you now explain the sense of urgency when he flew from the cockpit? Hiding from the aviation officials no doubt!