Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: rayace1 on January 27, 2011, 08:55:49 PM
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The T34's relaoding system needs to be faster.
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Do you have any facts to back it up that it needs to be faster. Bit of advice here is that unless you can show proof that it was faster to reload than it is now, your request will just be ignored.
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Do you have any facts to back it up that it needs to be faster. Bit of advice here is that unless you can show proof that it was faster to reload than it is now, your request will just be ignored.
sorry rayace, hes right
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Just saying it doesn't accomplish anything unless you can cite specific data and point to it.
And no wiki is probably not an acceptable source, nor is the history channel.
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The T34's relaoding system needs to be faster.
I believe the only way to do that is to go back to 1940 and tell that to the Russians.
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Do you have any facts to back it up that it needs to be faster. Bit of advice here is that unless you can show proof that it was faster to reload than it is now, your request will just be ignored.
What determines reload time in a manually loaded tank? Number of Crew members? I've wondered why the sherman is so much faster than the T-34. There must have been some logic behind that, can anyone explain it?
Thanks,
Vinkman
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What determines reload time in a manually loaded tank? Number of Crew members? I've wondered why the sherman is so much faster than the T-34. There must have been some logic behind that, can anyone explain it?
Thanks,
Vinkman
Don't quote me on this but I assume the mechanism that moves the round into the barrel and the location of the round in the tank (takes time to move it).
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Part of the speed of the reloading was the breech block on the M-4s gun. When the gun was fired and tube come back to battery the breech block opens automatically for shell case extraction for the loader. Also if you have ever been in a WWII tanks space in the turret also plays a roll in loading time. The T-34 had a small turret.
I was fortunate enough to have been stationed at Ft. Knox Kentucky as a training NCO and had an opportunity to clime all over many WWII tanks at the Patton Museum after hours.
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And no wiki is probably not an acceptable source, nor is the history channel.
I agree with history channel, but do you ever look at the bottom of wiki pages? That's what we call the Cited Sources section, meaning that folks did do their research on it.
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I agree with history channel, but do you ever look at the bottom of wiki pages? That's what we call the Cited Sources section, meaning that folks did do their research on it.
Unfortunately, many articles have those big warning flags on the top. However, if there are enough good sources and no flags, I will stand by Wikipedia to the end.
:salute to all those who answer the call of the Wiki
-Penguin
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I agree with history channel, but do you ever look at the bottom of wiki pages? That's what we call the Cited Sources section, meaning that folks did do their research on it.
dont even bother explaining wiki, i gave up a long time ago. you know all the other sources where only the author can post whatever he/she wants are more reliable :rofl.
semp
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Part of the speed of the reloading was the breech block on the M-4s gun. When the gun was fired and tube come back to battery the breech block opens automatically for shell case extraction for the loader. Also if you have ever been in a WWII tanks space in the turret also plays a roll in loading time. The T-34 had a small turret.
I was fortunate enough to have been stationed at Ft. Knox Kentucky as a training NCO and had an opportunity to clime all over many WWII tanks at the Patton Museum after hours.
I also believe in the case of the T-34/76 it only had a two man turret which means that either the commander or gunner was pulling double duty as the loader which would certainly slow down fire rate.
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The speed of the T-34 turret was modeled through real world testing done at HTC headquarters. A war surplus T-34 was stationed out front to repel questions about Combat Tour. :D
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Part of the speed of the reloading was the breech block on the M-4s gun. When the gun was fired and tube come back to battery the breech block opens automatically for shell case extraction for the loader. Also if you have ever been in a WWII tanks space in the turret also plays a roll in loading time. The T-34 had a small turret.
I was fortunate enough to have been stationed at Ft. Knox Kentucky as a training NCO and had an opportunity to clime all over many WWII tanks at the Patton Museum after hours.
What he said.
Also, spent shell casings are effing HOT. Gotta make sure you are not tossing one into the drivers head. :D
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Boils down to one word: ergonomics.
The Sherman had good ergonomics for the crew. The T-34 by comparison had very poor ergonomics for the crew. Differences in physical room in the turret, number of crew members, location of ready rounds, turret basket (which the Sherman had and the T-34 did not), all contribute to the difference in the rate of fire between the two.
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Part of the speed of the reloading was the breech block on the M-4s gun. When the gun was fired and tube come back to battery the breech block opens automatically for shell case extraction for the loader. Also if you have ever been in a WWII tanks space in the turret also plays a roll in loading time. The T-34 had a small turret.
I was fortunate enough to have been stationed at Ft. Knox Kentucky as a training NCO and had an opportunity to clime all over many WWII tanks at the Patton Museum after hours.
Good info. Thakns for that. :aok
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Also the US and later German tanks had a dedicated loader that did nothing but load the gun unlike the T-34 crew. The also US and German tanks didn't have a hand traversed turret ether.
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I also believe in the case of the T-34/76 it only had a two man turret which means that either the commander or gunner was pulling double duty as the loader which would certainly slow down fire rate.
Yup, only one loader.
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OK I did a test, I compared the t34 with one of the most commonly used tanks in the game... the m4a3(76)w. Compared the reloading and the t34's reloaded in 7 sec., but the M4A3(76)w reloaded in 3 sec. That is a 4 sec difference.
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OK I did a test, I compared the t34 with one of the most commonly used tanks in the game... the m4a3(76)w. Compared the reloading and the t34's reloaded in 7 sec., but the M4A3(76)w reloaded in 3 sec. That is a 4 sec difference.
Or put another way, the Shrman can fire 2.3 times faster.
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Or put another way, the Shrman can fire 2.3 times faster.
Here are the "official" reloads times of all the tank guns in the game:
M4A3/75mm> 3.6 sec
M4A3/76mm (W)> 3.6 sec (Too fast. Should be closer to 4 seconds, imo)
M8> 2.1 sec
LVT-4> 3.6 sec
"Firefly"> 7.2 sec
T34/76> 8.2 sec
T34/85> 6.8 sec
Pzr IV H> 5.4 sec
"Panther" G> 6 sec
"Tiger" E> 6.3 sec
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Now those reload times tell the story. The T34s need a better reload system.
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I'm linking a thread where rate of fire was discussed specifically between the 75mm and 76mm Shermans, but along the way data was presented regarding ROF for the T-34s as well (later pages, 7-9). Bottom line is that ROF for the T-34s is no slower than published documents indicate. By that same token, the ROF for the Shermans is no faster than published documents indicate. Absent authoritative sources that contradict the data HTC is using, it is doubtful any of the rates will be changed.
The disparity in rate of fire is due in large part to the ergonomic conditions for the crew, which the linked thread will demonstrate.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,289361.0.html
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I'm linking a thread where rate of fire was discussed specifically between the 75mm and 76mm Shermans, but along the way data was presented regarding ROF for the T-34s as well (later pages, 7-9). Bottom line is that ROF for the T-34s is no slower than published documents indicate. By that same token, the ROF for the Shermans is no faster than published documents indicate. Absent authoritative sources that contradict the data HTC is using, it is doubtful any of the rates will be changed.
The disparity in rate of fire is due in large part to the ergonomic conditions for the crew, which the linked thread will demonstrate.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,289361.0.html
IMO, when there is credible information that says "15-20 rounds per minute", I would hope that the heavier and longer round for the M4A3/76mm would account for a slightly slower reload time vs the shorter and lighter 75mm. The variable reload rate is given for a reason. Obviously, the experience of the crew is prime, then their training level, and then the actual mechanics of loading/unloading/reloading the gun. Since the LVT-4 can hurl rounds down range every 3.6 seconds from an open turret, I would like to think HTC would recognize the logical transgression of heavier and longer rounds in a confined space would add time between shots. Granted, the LVT-4's 75mm M2 howitzer and the M4A3/75mm (M3 L/40) fire the exact same HE round, but again the LVT-4 has an open turret which allows for greater freedom and ease in reloading.
Adding a few 10th's of a second to the M4/75mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the LVT-4, and then adding a few more 10th's to the M4/76mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the M4/75mm and the LVT-4.
Heck... what about HTC changing the reload rates every so often to the tanks so reflect the skill and experience of the tank crews??? The Panther G has a reload rate of "6-10 rounds a minute". Thankfully, in AH we are on the better end of that scale. In fact, I think all of the tanks are on the better end of the reloading time scale. No harm in mixing things up from time to time??? Would the AH world be turned upside down if the Panzer IV reloaded at the same rate as a M4/76 at 3.8 seconds??? Would a veteran crew in a T34/76mm cause havoc if they reloaded at 5 second??? Food for thought.
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dont even bother explaining wiki, i gave up a long time ago. you know all the other sources where only the author can post whatever he/she wants are more reliable :rofl.
semp
Wikipedia is currently the world's most up to date information database.
Suck on that and tell me the flavor
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Wikipedia is currently the world's most up to date information database.
Suck on that and tell me the flavor
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Chocolate.
No, wait. Someone just changed it to Orange.
:neener:
wrongway
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Chocolate.
No, wait. Someone just changed it to Orange.
:neener:
wrongway
all you have to do with the wikipedia articles is press the source links and verify the data wrongway :aok
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But obviously verifying information is too much work.
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IMO, when there is credible information that says "15-20 rounds per minute", I would hope that the heavier and longer round for the M4A3/76mm would account for a slightly slower reload time vs the shorter and lighter 75mm. The variable reload rate is given for a reason. Obviously, the experience of the crew is prime, then their training level, and then the actual mechanics of loading/unloading/reloading the gun. Since the LVT-4 can hurl rounds down range every 3.6 seconds from an open turret, I would like to think HTC would recognize the logical transgression of heavier and longer rounds in a confined space would add time between shots. Granted, the LVT-4's 75mm M2 howitzer and the M4A3/75mm (M3 L/40) fire the exact same HE round, but again the LVT-4 has an open turret which allows for greater freedom and ease in reloading.
Adding a few 10th's of a second to the M4/75mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the LVT-4, and then adding a few more 10th's to the M4/76mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the M4/75mm and the LVT-4.
Heck... what about HTC changing the reload rates every so often to the tanks so reflect the skill and experience of the tank crews??? The Panther G has a reload rate of "6-10 rounds a minute". Thankfully, in AH we are on the better end of that scale. In fact, I think all of the tanks are on the better end of the reloading time scale. No harm in mixing things up from time to time??? Would the AH world be turned upside down if the Panzer IV reloaded at the same rate as a M4/76 at 3.8 seconds??? Would a veteran crew in a T34/76mm cause havoc if they reloaded at 5 second??? Food for thought.
I could be wrong, but I thought the turret on the LVT(A)-4 was a relatively small two-man turret. So it's superb rate of fire seems to already account for any advantage of an open turret.
3.6 second reload time is already between 15 (4 seconds) and 20 (3 seconds). Maybe the 75mm gun's reload time should be shortened? But, yes, it seem intuitively reasonable to have at least a small difference in reload time.
Variability of quality isn't coded elsewhere in the game, so I don't see a "crew experience variable" being added. It might be interesting to have a perked crew option, though, similar to a perked ordinance scheme that was once discussed.
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I thought that the T34/76s had an autoloader for the gun hence why it was so slow......I could of course be wrong.
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Now those reload times tell the story. The T34s need a better reload system.
Since it did not have a "better reload system" historically, then it will not receive one in AH.
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Now those reload times tell the story. The T34s need a better reload system.
Here's what you do:
1. Invent time machine
2. Go back to WWII and help Russians improve T34 reload times
3. ???????
4. Profit!
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I could be wrong, but I thought the turret on the LVT(A)-4 was a relatively small two-man turret. So it's superb rate of fire seems to already account for any advantage of an open turret.
3.6 second reload time is already between 15 (4 seconds) and 20 (3 seconds). Maybe the 75mm gun's reload time should be shortened? But, yes, it seem intuitively reasonable to have at least a small difference in reload time.
Variability of quality isn't coded elsewhere in the game, so I don't see a "crew experience variable" being added. It might be interesting to have a perked crew option, though, similar to a perked ordinance scheme that was once discussed.
That is precisely my point: vary the reload speed by just a wee amount to accommodate the differences in shell size, etc. If the 75mm is 3.6 seconds, then maybe the 76mm could be 4 seconds?
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Im going to hazard a guess that when the tank commander yelled out "TIGER!!!!!" that damned reload time doubled :x
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Im going to hazard a guess that when the tank commander yelled out "TIGER!!!!!" that damned reload time doubled :x
or was cut in half, perhaps, depending on how badly they wanted to live!
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Im going to hazard a guess that when the tank commander yelled out "TIGER!!!!!" that damned reload time doubled :x
If I was sitting in a sherman and someone yelled "Tiger!!!" my reload time would drop to zero as I ran away screaming. But then again I'm a craven little coward. :)