Author Topic: T34 Loading/Reloading  (Read 1258 times)

Offline Vinkman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 10:16:19 AM »
Part of the speed of the reloading was the breech block on the M-4s gun. When the gun was fired and tube come back to battery the breech block opens automatically for shell case extraction for the loader. Also if you have ever been in a WWII tanks space in the turret also plays a roll in loading time. The T-34 had a small turret.
 I was fortunate enough to have been stationed at Ft. Knox Kentucky as a training NCO and had an opportunity to clime all over many WWII tanks at the Patton Museum after hours.

Good info. Thakns for that.  :aok
Who is John Galt?

Offline R 105

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 978
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 10:28:04 AM »
 Also the US and later German tanks had a dedicated loader that did nothing but load the gun unlike the T-34 crew. The also US and German tanks didn't have a hand traversed turret ether.

Offline B4Buster

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4816
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 10:41:02 AM »
I also believe in the case of the T-34/76 it only had a two man turret which means that either the commander or gunner was pulling double duty as the loader which would certainly slow down fire rate.


Yup, only one loader.
"I was a door gunner on the space shuttle Columbia" - Scott12B

Offline rayace1

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 07:09:24 PM »
OK I did a test, I compared the t34 with one of the most commonly used tanks in the game... the m4a3(76)w. Compared the reloading and the t34's reloaded in 7 sec., but the M4A3(76)w reloaded in 3 sec. That is a 4 sec difference.
NEW GAME ID: Wardog17

Offline Vinkman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 06:30:22 AM »
OK I did a test, I compared the t34 with one of the most commonly used tanks in the game... the m4a3(76)w. Compared the reloading and the t34's reloaded in 7 sec., but the M4A3(76)w reloaded in 3 sec. That is a 4 sec difference.


Or put another way, the Shrman can fire 2.3 times faster.
Who is John Galt?

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2011, 07:15:06 PM »
Or put another way, the Shrman can fire 2.3 times faster.

Here are the "official" reloads times of all the tank guns in the game:

M4A3/75mm> 3.6 sec
M4A3/76mm (W)> 3.6 sec (Too fast. Should be closer to 4 seconds, imo)
M8> 2.1 sec
LVT-4> 3.6 sec 
"Firefly"> 7.2 sec
T34/76> 8.2 sec
T34/85> 6.8 sec 
Pzr IV H> 5.4 sec 
"Panther" G> 6 sec
"Tiger" E> 6.3 sec
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline rayace1

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 115
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 07:33:06 PM »
Now those reload times tell the story. The T34s need a better reload system.
NEW GAME ID: Wardog17

Offline E25280

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
      • http://125thspartanforums.com
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2011, 10:18:45 PM »
I'm linking a thread where rate of fire was discussed specifically between the 75mm and 76mm Shermans, but along the way data was presented regarding ROF for the T-34s as well (later pages, 7-9).  Bottom line is that ROF for the T-34s is no slower than published documents indicate.  By that same token, the ROF for the Shermans is no faster than published documents indicate.  Absent authoritative sources that contradict the data HTC is using, it is doubtful any of the rates will be changed.

The disparity in rate of fire is due in large part to the ergonomic conditions for the crew, which the linked thread will demonstrate.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,289361.0.html
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
Captain and Communications Officer~125th Spartans

"Proudly drawing fire so that my brothers may pass unharmed."

Offline SmokinLoon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6168
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 11:06:10 PM »
I'm linking a thread where rate of fire was discussed specifically between the 75mm and 76mm Shermans, but along the way data was presented regarding ROF for the T-34s as well (later pages, 7-9).  Bottom line is that ROF for the T-34s is no slower than published documents indicate.  By that same token, the ROF for the Shermans is no faster than published documents indicate.  Absent authoritative sources that contradict the data HTC is using, it is doubtful any of the rates will be changed.

The disparity in rate of fire is due in large part to the ergonomic conditions for the crew, which the linked thread will demonstrate.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,289361.0.html

IMO, when there is credible information that says "15-20 rounds per minute", I would hope that the heavier and longer round for the M4A3/76mm would account for a slightly slower reload time vs the shorter and lighter 75mm.  The variable reload rate is given for a reason.  Obviously, the experience of the crew is prime, then their training level, and then the actual mechanics of loading/unloading/reloading the gun.  Since the LVT-4 can hurl rounds down range every 3.6 seconds from an open turret, I would like to think HTC would recognize the logical transgression of heavier and longer rounds in a confined space would add time between shots.  Granted, the LVT-4's 75mm M2 howitzer and the M4A3/75mm (M3 L/40) fire the exact same HE round, but again the LVT-4 has an open turret which allows for greater freedom and ease in reloading. 

Adding a few 10th's of a second to the M4/75mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the LVT-4, and then adding a few more 10th's to the M4/76mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the M4/75mm and the LVT-4.   

Heck... what about HTC changing the reload rates every so often to the tanks so reflect the skill and experience of the tank crews???  The Panther G has a reload rate of "6-10 rounds a minute".  Thankfully, in AH we are on the better end of that scale.  In fact, I think all of the tanks are on the better end of the reloading time scale.  No harm in mixing things up from time to time???  Would the AH world be turned upside down if the Panzer IV reloaded at the same rate as a M4/76 at 3.8 seconds???  Would a veteran crew in a T34/76mm cause havoc if they reloaded at 5 second???  Food for thought. 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Flipperk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1185
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 11:27:05 PM »
dont even bother explaining wiki, i gave up a long time ago.  you know all the other sources where only the author can post whatever he/she wants are more reliable  :rofl.

semp

Wikipedia is currently the world's most up to date information database.


Suck on that and tell me the flavor

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
It is 2 Cents or .02 Dollars...NOT .02 Cents!

Offline AWwrgwy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5478
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2011, 11:53:42 PM »
Wikipedia is currently the world's most up to date information database.


Suck on that and tell me the flavor

 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Chocolate.

No, wait.  Someone just changed it to Orange.

 :neener:


wrongway
71 (Eagle) Squadron
"THAT"S PAINT!!"

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay

Offline 321BAR

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6140
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2011, 11:58:37 PM »
Chocolate.

No, wait.  Someone just changed it to Orange.

 :neener:


wrongway
all you have to do with the wikipedia articles is press the source links and verify the data wrongway :aok
I am in need of a new epic quote
Happy Jack's Go Buggy

Offline Flipperk

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1185
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2011, 01:04:47 PM »
But obviously verifying information is too much work.
It is 2 Cents or .02 Dollars...NOT .02 Cents!

Offline E25280

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
      • http://125thspartanforums.com
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2011, 05:54:12 PM »
IMO, when there is credible information that says "15-20 rounds per minute", I would hope that the heavier and longer round for the M4A3/76mm would account for a slightly slower reload time vs the shorter and lighter 75mm.  The variable reload rate is given for a reason.  Obviously, the experience of the crew is prime, then their training level, and then the actual mechanics of loading/unloading/reloading the gun.  Since the LVT-4 can hurl rounds down range every 3.6 seconds from an open turret, I would like to think HTC would recognize the logical transgression of heavier and longer rounds in a confined space would add time between shots.  Granted, the LVT-4's 75mm M2 howitzer and the M4A3/75mm (M3 L/40) fire the exact same HE round, but again the LVT-4 has an open turret which allows for greater freedom and ease in reloading. 

Adding a few 10th's of a second to the M4/75mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the LVT-4, and then adding a few more 10th's to the M4/76mm Sherman could hardly be argued against when compared to the M4/75mm and the LVT-4.   

Heck... what about HTC changing the reload rates every so often to the tanks so reflect the skill and experience of the tank crews???  The Panther G has a reload rate of "6-10 rounds a minute".  Thankfully, in AH we are on the better end of that scale.  In fact, I think all of the tanks are on the better end of the reloading time scale.  No harm in mixing things up from time to time???  Would the AH world be turned upside down if the Panzer IV reloaded at the same rate as a M4/76 at 3.8 seconds???  Would a veteran crew in a T34/76mm cause havoc if they reloaded at 5 second???  Food for thought. 
I could be wrong, but I thought the turret on the LVT(A)-4 was a relatively small two-man turret.  So it's superb rate of fire seems to already account for any advantage of an open turret.

3.6 second reload time is already between 15 (4 seconds) and 20 (3 seconds).  Maybe the 75mm gun's reload time should be shortened? But, yes, it seem intuitively reasonable to have at least a small difference in reload time.

Variability of quality isn't coded elsewhere in the game, so I don't see a "crew experience variable" being added.  It might be interesting to have a perked crew option, though, similar to a perked ordinance scheme that was once discussed.
Brauno in a past life, followed by LTARget
SWtarget in current incarnation
Captain and Communications Officer~125th Spartans

"Proudly drawing fire so that my brothers may pass unharmed."

Offline Vudu15

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3055
Re: T34 Loading/Reloading
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2011, 02:16:23 PM »
I thought that the T34/76s had an autoloader for the gun hence why it was so slow......I could of course be wrong.
"No odds too great"

"I was a horse ahead at the end" - Nathan Bedford Forrest
Training Video List https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL54E5CE