Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: mthrockmor on January 27, 2011, 11:29:11 PM
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I have no doubt that sticks far smarter then I are going to make more corrections, such as Black Widow versus Widowmaker but...
This is a petition to get the folks in Grapevine, TX to put the Black Widow on their project list and get it going. If you want the P-61 within the next 12 months just add a thumbs up to this petition.
And I know those that think it a horrible idea are going to bomb this thread, that's fine. Skuzzy just needs to count thumbs up or salutes.
So to get the ball rolling...
:aok #1
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i would thumbs up this if there was nighttime.
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the P-61 doesnt need nightime to be a good plane... and +1 :aok
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:aok
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the P-61 doesnt need nightime to be a good plane... and +1 :aok
well most of its missions were nighttime raids on enemy airfields or shooting down jap nigttime bomber runs to annoy US troops or disrupt supplys. i think a few were painted olive drab and had invasion stripes on them aswell if true then yeah i would fly it during the day, but im not sure. :aok
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:aok for more crap to shoot down
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Again as usual, there is not a criteria for time of day for planes to be added.
For you anti American plane type, how about P-61 with He-111 package deal. :D
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Again as usual, there is not a criteria for time of day for planes to be added.
For you anti American plane type, how about P-61 with He-111 package deal. :D
How about not calling people anti-American just because they don't want every single imaginable fringe American aircraft added before the core aircraft of other nations get added?
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P-61 would be a beautiful bird to have in the game. :aok
But I'm going with Karnak, we need more planes from other countries first.
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Again as usual, there is not a criteria for time of day for planes to be added.
For you anti American plane type, how about P-61 with He-111 package deal. :D
:aok
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Again as usual, there is not a criteria for time of day for planes to be added.
For you anti American plane type, how about P-61 with He-111 package deal. :D
How about not calling people anti-American just because they don't want every single imaginable fringe American aircraft added before the core aircraft of other nations get added?
Touchy.
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-1
Not in the near future
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-1 until you get the terminology right....
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At some point bung it in :aok
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:aok
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yeah lets have a real widowmaker. another spit :D.
semp
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I wonder if it would be competitive in our daylight environment. Another thing is we have very good radar in the game, radar that works while we are in flight, negating the adv that this plane had in real life.
I'm not against it but I think filling out the Italian and Japanese plane sets would have greater impact on the game.
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:aok
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I would most certainly like to see the P61 in game. But for right now, I would personally like to see either some updates to old plane models, or some more Japanese and Russian birds.
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"Next 12 months"?
(http://images.zaazu.com/img/thumbsdown-fail-thumbs-down-reject-smiley-emoticon-000748-large.gif)
wrongway
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:aok
But the others are right, they should add more planes FIRST from italy, russia, japan, etc. I do REALLY want to see this one in game eventually, I posted some thaughts on it and a training video from the bird's time.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,302805.msg3928849.html#msg3928849 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,302805.msg3928849.html#msg3928849)
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It'd be cool but I'd like to see the axis plane set filled out a little more before we add another Allied bird. Japanese, German, Italian, don't really care or have a particular wish other than some German bombers. So thumbs sideways for the moment.
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Again as usual, there is not a criteria for time of day for planes to be added.
For you anti American plane type, how about P-61 with He-111 package deal. :D
This particular Yank would prefer the Beaufighter He111 package thank you :)
The old Beau was prowling the night and day skies far longer then the 61 :aok
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This particular Yank would prefer the Beaufighter He111 package thank you :)
The old Beau was prowling the night and day skies far longer then the 61 :aok
Yes, but it wasn't nearly as pretty. :)
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Aces High needs more of the basics before an exotic night-fighter. Some flight sim enthusiasts laugh when they see that AH doesn't have an He-111, Ki-43, or Lagg or Yak-3.
They're going to laugh even harder when they see the B-29. Don't cause them to asphyxiate with a P-61.
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Aces High needs more of the basics before an exotic night-fighter. Some flight sim enthusiasts laugh when they see that AH doesn't have an He-111, Ki-43, or Lagg or Yak-3.
They're going to laugh even harder when they see the B-29. Don't cause them to asphyxiate with a P-61.
opinion=/=fact
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Why do we have 2 threads by the same guy on the same topic on top of a wishlist forum?
One needs: (http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/smilies/locked.gif)
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I say lock 'em both.
I can think of 30 aircraft that saw far more action and made a much larger imprint on WWII than the P61. Even the A26 ranks higher on the "add" list than that thin. My opinion, of course. :)
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only way i can see the p-61 having a defining role in aceshigh is possable mobile radar?could be cool to bring one along on a mission to capture a base. as long as its flying it's "radar" can mark enemy cons on the map like reguler radar does.
could also be used as a possable cv finder maybe?
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yeah lets have a real widowmaker. another spit :D.
semp
:aok :rofl
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I say lock 'em both.
I can think of 30 aircraft that saw far more action and made a much larger imprint on WWII than the P61. Even the A26 ranks higher on the "add" list than that thin. My opinion, of course. :)
Name off those, then. The P-61 was a fine aircraft and just because you don't want one doesn't mean the threads need to be locked.
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30 aircraft that had a larger role....ok....I'll limit myself to airframes we don't have:
A-26
Beaufighter
Defiant
Do17
Do217
H6K "Mavis"
H8K "Emily"
He111
He177
Hs129
Il-4
Il-10
J2M "Jack"
Ju188
Ki-43 "Oscar"
Ki-44 "Tojo"
Meteor
MiG-3
PBY Catalina
P1Y "Frances"
Pe-2
SB-2
Skua
SM.79
Sterling
TBD Devastator
Tu-2
Wellington
Whirlwind
Z.1007
Those are 30 out of memory. I can add quite a few more out of memory too. Who knows how many I can add if I go to books as well.
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dont we allready have the whirlwind?...or was there a plane named whirlwind aswell?
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dont we allready have the whirlwind?...or was there a plane named whirlwind aswell?
Westland Whirlwind
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Westland_whirlwind.jpg)
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Westland Whirlwind
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Westland_whirlwind.jpg)
oh....looks like a skinnier version of a mossie
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30 aircraft that had a larger role....ok....I'll limit myself to airframes we don't have:
~snip~
Those are 30 out of memory. I can add quite a few more out of memory too. Who knows how many I can add if I go to books as well.
I thought you would have at least listed the French "Dewoitine D.520"
the French need to be represented :D
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I was actually banking on SmokinLoon answering. lol.
Although there were planes that were more impressive than the P-61, my point to him was just because you don't want one doesn't mean the threads need to be locked.
Yes, there are other planes that need to be added/updated, but that isn't reason to forget about the Black Widow entirely.
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Westland Whirlwind
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Westland_whirlwind.jpg)
I dont know that ride, but looks like a tempest-mossie hybrid. Pretty cool.
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4 hizzooka's in the nose iirc
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I dont know that ride, but looks like a tempest-mossie hybrid. Pretty cool.
eh...actually i think it looks like a mossie+262 baby lol. imagine the engines as jet engines and you'll see what i mean.
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I thought you would have at least listed the French "Dewoitine D.520"
the French need to be represented :D
If asked to extend the list, I had several French and Polish aircraft in mind.
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If asked to extend the list, I had several French and Polish aircraft in mind.
Extend away. I want something to research.
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Let's add:
Lagg-3
Yak-1(B)
Yak-7
Yak-9D
Yak-3
Ki-100
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I have the sneaking suspicion that you have a certain fondness of Russian birds...
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30 aircraft that had a larger role....ok....I'll limit myself to airframes we don't have:
A-26
Beaufighter
Defiant
Do17
Do217
H6K "Mavis"
H8K "Emily"
He111
He177
Hs129
Il-4
Il-10
J2M "Jack"
Ju188
Ki-43 "Oscar"
Ki-44 "Tojo"
Meteor
MiG-3
PBY Catalina
P1Y "Frances"
Pe-2
SB-2
Skua
SM.79
Sterling
TBD Devastator
Tu-2
Wellington
Whirlwind
Z.1007
Those are 30 out of memory. I can add quite a few more out of memory too. Who knows how many I can add if I go to books as well.
Let's add:
Lagg-3
Yak-1(B)
Yak-7
Yak-9D
Yak-3
Ki-100
Can we get more Spitfires while were at it :x :D :bolt:
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I'm glad I have some good card playin' partners in these forums. I was ready to lay down my list but my partner trumped the other team, I'll simply throw in some junk. :neener:
The D520, He111, Pe-2, Tu-2, Ki43, Ki45, P40N, even the Swordfish, and at least 23 more aircraft all rate higher than the P61, imo. I'm already disappointed that HTC is adding the B29, the P61 would rank right up there on that level of disappointment with the current gigantic gaps in the plane set AH currently has.
... and don't get me started on the gv's that could *easily* be added. Stop and think of the dozens of more options we could have just by adding in variants of the M4 Sherman, M3 halftrack, SdKfz 251, and even the Panzer Mk III (wirby and Osty already exist).
So I will apologize and take back my comment about locking the threads, but P61 threads annoy simmers' crowd. ;)
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Machfly,
I was specifically avoiding mention of variants of aircraft we already have. Keep in mind I am not mentioning things I think were less significant then the P-61, so no Ki-102, He162, B7A, Pe-8 or Farman F222. I'll toss out some more airframes we don't have:
B6N "Jill"
Boomerang
D4Y "Judy"
D.520
Foker D.XXI
G3M "Nell"
Halifax
Hampden
Ki-21 "Sally"
Ki-45 "Nick"
Ki-48 "Lily"
Ki-49 "Helen"
MB-152
M.S.406
PB2Y Coranado
Potez 630/631
PV1 Ventura
PZL P.11
PZL P.37
Whitworth
I will also specify that I am not advocating adding all of these airframes to AH as there would be a lot of essential duplication. There is very little difference in terms of effect on a scenario to choose between a G4M "Betty" and a Ki-21 "Sally" or a Ki-49 "Helen", likewise there is little effective difference between a Lancaster and a Halifax.
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Machfly,
I was specifically avoiding mention of variants of aircraft we already have.
Yeah I know it was a joke. I agree with your list BTW.
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I have the sneaking suspicion that you have a certain fondness of Russian birds...
Meh, not really. But they are severely underrepresented in AH, and we still can't run a good Eastern front scenario/FSO without throwing in lots of lend-lease aircraft to fill in gaps.
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How about not calling people anti-American just because they don't want every single imaginable fringe American aircraft added before the core aircraft of other nations get added?
what national "core aircraft" is missing?
Oh sorry Karnak, jst bothered to read the follow on pages. Still, not feeling the "core" in any of those. All fringers to me (far as combat aircraft go), and the P61 just looks so damned cool.
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that French MS406 would be a good fit also.. The French built them in large quantity, the Germans used them when they captured a good many of them and also turned some of them over to Finland
so it could play in multiple roles....... from early war through the late war era.....
After the armistice, some Morane 406s remained in service in the Vichy air force (where they were mainly used for training), and others were handed over by the Germans to Finland, which had received 30 aircraft in 1940. The 'Morko Moraani' was created in Finland by converting French Morane-Saulnier MS.406 and MS.410 fighters to accept captured Soviet Klimov M-105P engines. The M-105P was a development of the original Hispano-Suiza HS 12Y engine, and developed 200 hp (149 kw) more. A total of 41 were converted; the engines were supplied by Germany. Germany also supplied the new Mauser 20 mm cannon and oil cooler. The Morko remained in service until 1948.
Another foreign buyer was Switzerland, which, after having acquired two M.S.406s, built 82 aircraft on license (designated EFW-3800) as well as 207 of a subsequent home-developed version known as EFW-3801.
Specifications (Morane Saulnier MS.406)
Type: Single Seat Fighter
Design: Morane Saulnier
Manufacturer: Morane Saulnier, SNCASO, Dornier-Werke Switzerland
Powerplant: One 860 hp (642 kw) Hispano-Suiza 12Y 31 12-cylinder inverted Vee, liquid cooled, piston engine.
Performance: Maximum speed 302 mph (486 km/h) at 16,400 ft (5000 m); service ceiling 30,840 ft (9400 m).
Range: 497 miles (800 km) with internal fuel stores.
Weight: Empty 4,178 lbs (1895 kg) with a maximum take-off weight of 5,600 lbs (2540 kg).
Dimensions: Span 34 ft 10 in (10.65 m); length 2 ft 9 in (8.15 m); height 9 ft 3 in (2.82 m); wing area 172.16 sq ft (16.0 sq m).
Armament: One 20 mm Hispano Suiza HS-404 (or HS-59) gun (60 rounds) and two 7.5 mm (0.295 in) MAC-1934 guns (300 rounds each).
Variants: MS.406 (prototype and production).
Operators: France, Croatia, Turkey, Finland, Switzerland, Vichy France, Germany.
source: http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/Morane%20Saulnier%20MS.406.htm
weblink to some other WWII aircraft of other countrys:
http://www.pilotfriend.com/photo_albums/timeline/ww2/2/other.htm
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what national "core aircraft" is missing?
Oh sorry Karnak, jst bothered to read the follow on pages. Still, not feeling the "core" in any of those. All fringers to me (far as combat aircraft go), and the P61 just looks so damned cool.
"Core" aircraft would be:
He111
Il-4
Ki-43
Pe-2
S.M.79-II
Possibly the Tu-2 and Wellington might count as well.
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The Japanese, Russian and Italian planesets (misc. countries? :headscratch:) need to be represented before any more American airraft are added.
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"Core" aircraft would be:
He111
Il-4
Ki-43
Pe-2
S.M.79-II
Possibly the Tu-2 and Wellington might count as well.
Still have to add more Russian aircraft to have anything like a core, e.g. Yak-1 and Lagg-3 are essential.
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dont we allready have the whirlwind?...or was there a plane named whirlwind aswell?
Your confusing the ... Whirblewind, which we do have, with the Whirlwind.
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:aok :aok :aok :aok I definitely agree with the addition of the P-61. It was very important aircraft during the war.
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I'm not quite sure I agree with you're opinion that these 30+ aircrafts had a larger role than the P-61A/B.
30 aircraft that had a larger role....ok....I'll limit myself to airframes we don't have:
A-26 1,355
Beaufighter5,564 in England, 365 in Australia
Defiant1,064
Do17Unknown but production ended in 40
Do2171730
H6K "Mavis"127-200 Sea Plane
H8K "Emily"112 Sea Plane
He1113498
He177~700
Hs129879
Il-45,256
Il-104,655 Production to 1955
J2M "Jack"480
Ju1881,100
Ki-43 "Oscar"5,751
Ki-44 "Tojo" 1,233
MeteorExact number unknown 50 estimated in WWII
MiG-33,322
PBY Catalina4,051 (estimated)
P1Y "Frances"1,098
Pe-211,400 all variants
SB-26,945
Skua192
SM.791,350
Sterling2,221 bomber versions, 160 Mk. V
TBD Devastator129
Tu-22,257 all variants to 48
Wellington11,461 all variants
Whirlwind 112
Z.1007660
Those are 30 out of memory. I can add quite a few more out of memory too. Who knows how many I can add if I go to books as well.
Machfly,
I was specifically avoiding mention of variants of aircraft we already have. Keep in mind I am not mentioning things I think were less significant then the P-61, so no Ki-102, He162, B7A, Pe-8 or Farman F222. I'll toss out some more airframes we don't have:
B6N "Jill"
Boomerang
D4Y "Judy"2,038
D.520~900
Foker D.XXI~150
G3M "Nell"1,048
Halifax6,176
Hampden1,430
Ki-21 "Sally"2,064
Ki-45 "Nick" 1,698
Ki-48 "Lily"Ki-48-I: 557, Ki-48-II: 1,408
Ki-49 "Helen"819
MB-152Unknown
M.S.4061,176
PB2Y Coranado210 Sea Plane
Potez 630/631Unknown
PV1 VenturaUnknown
PZL P.11325
PZL P.37~120
Whitworth1,737
I will also specify that I am not advocating adding all of these airframes to AH as there would be a lot of essential duplication. There is very little difference in terms of effect on a scenario to choose between a G4M "Betty" and a Ki-21 "Sally" or a Ki-49 "Helen", likewise there is little effective difference between a Lancaster and a Halifax.
I have to say that there are many of these aircraft in your list that I'd like to see added, but on the other hand there are just as many that would never make it out of the hanger, or IMO be a waste of HTCs resources. Do I think the Beau or the He-111 belong in AH before the P-61A/B. Yes. Do I think some of the aircraft that you suggested impact on the WWII were less significant than the P-61; Yes.
I'd like to have the 61 for a multitude of reasons. Namely the engineering side; the spoilerons, radar (which doesn't matter in AH), remote turrets and the overall size of the P-61 make it a favorite for me. On a more personal note, it was the first aircraft I seen growing up at WPAFB, and I will always hold a fondness for the 61.
On a side note, I went back to the plane list BBS members compiled for HTC of planes that they'd like to see added. P-61(17 votes) B-29(10 votes). And the 61 never made it into the poll :( Maybe HTC has something in mind for it.
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Or maybe they don't see how a night-fighter would fit into the game? :neener:
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Oh why I ought to.... :furious :furious
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5PointOh,
Production numbers don't tell the whole story by any means. The 167 H8Ks (your 112 number is for H8K2s) saw heavy use through the entire pacific war. That makes it much more important than an aircraft that showed up late in the war in limited numbers. The Do17 saw vastly more combat than the P-61.
I will not deny that the P-61 is a neat fighter and I have no problem with it being in the queue, I just think we need a few core aircraft, not that entire list by any means, before it.
Tazz69,
The P-61 wasn't even significant, let alone "very important."
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I'm not quite sure I agree with you're opinion that these 30+ aircrafts had a larger role than the P-61A/B.I have to say that there are many of these aircraft in your list that I'd like to see added, but on the other hand there are just as many that would never make it out of the hanger, or IMO be a waste of HTCs resources. Do I think the Beau or the He-111 belong in AH before the P-61A/B. Yes. Do I think some of the aircraft that you suggested impact on the WWII were less significant than the P-61; Yes.
I'd like to have the 61 for a multitude of reasons. Namely the engineering side; the spoilerons, radar (which doesn't matter in AH), remote turrets and the overall size of the P-61 make it a favorite for me. On a more personal note, it was the first aircraft I seen growing up at WPAFB, and I will always hold a fondness for the 61.
On a side note, I went back to the plane list BBS members compiled for HTC of planes that they'd like to see added. P-61(17 votes) B-29(10 votes). And the 61 never made it into the poll :( Maybe HTC has something in mind for it.
<Puts check in the mail to Copr for the Beau comment>
:)
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Always willing to learn and accept that I am wrong, or a better way I have looked up many of these planes. It seems to me that many of them are more out of nostalgia then a potent fighting weapon. I can see the Pe-2, though it would be like the latest Mosquito with no guns. It is a fast, nimble dive bomber not a heavy jabo. The Italian three engine bomber also seems a smart idea. Many of the other planes strike as the most recent Betty. It was all the rage for about a week and now we almost never see them.
I know I should take into consideration that fly exclusively 'late war' and many fly early or mid-war and these many other planes fit there. Take the D.520, I'd love to fly it but it gets no where with Spit16s, P-51s, Doras and LAs.
For those who are far more knowledgable about this discussion than I, don't list 30. Post the top-10 planes, with my beloved P-61 being number 11. Don't count the B-29 since it is already in the works. And I would be happy to see the Me-410. Actually, I want to see the F8F Bearcat and the German Arrow (forget number but it hand an engine in front and back, faster prop plane of the war.) I'm assured those two will never make it since they didn't have combat but...
I look forward to a narrowed list.
Warmest,
Boo
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There were heavy-fighter versions of the Pe-2, but the main arena already has an aircraft to fill every conceivable niche, so who the hell cares if it can blow up towns and vulch well?
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Beaufighter
Ki-43
He-111
Pe-2
Me-410
Halifax
Yak-1 or Yak-3
Dinah
SM-79
Fiat CR-42
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Pe-2
Ju188/Do217/He177 (pick one, any one)
Ki-43
Beaufighter
Wellington
He111
Tu-2
Me410
S.M.79
D.520
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Short Stirling :noid
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Short Stirling :noid
B29...oh wait....
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Short Stirling :noid
Go read up on the Short Stirling and it's operational career. You'll figure out quickly with they came off Ops and ended up Glider tugs. You'll also find out why the Lanc and Halifax crews appreciated knowing Stirlings were around, and it wasn't because they were more effective.
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Machfly,
I was specifically avoiding mention of variants of aircraft we already have. Keep in mind I am not mentioning things I think were less significant then the P-61, so no Ki-102, He162, B7A, Pe-8 or Farman F222. I'll toss out some more airframes we don't have:
B6N "Jill"
Boomerang
D4Y "Judy"
D.520
Foker D.XXI
G3M "Nell"
Halifax
Hampden
Ki-21 "Sally"
Ki-45 "Nick"
Ki-48 "Lily"
Ki-49 "Helen"
MB-152
M.S.406
PB2Y Coranado
Potez 630/631
PV1 Ventura
PZL P.11
PZL P.37
Whitworth
I will also specify that I am not advocating adding all of these airframes to AH as there would be a lot of essential duplication. There is very little difference in terms of effect on a scenario to choose between a G4M "Betty" and a Ki-21 "Sally" or a Ki-49 "Helen", likewise there is little effective difference between a Lancaster and a Halifax.
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Go read up on the Short Stirling and it's operational career. You'll figure out quickly with they came off Ops and ended up Glider tugs. You'll also find out why the Lanc and Halifax crews appreciated knowing Stirlings were around, and it wasn't because they were more effective.
wikipedia states that the "short" stirling could outturn ju88's and bf110's because of its HUGE wings, any truth to this?
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no one will ever know, usually when a stirling saw a 110 or 88 it was already screaming towards the ground on fire with no wings
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wikipedia states that the "short" stirling could outturn ju88's and bf110's because of its HUGE wings, any truth to this?
That would be no. Might want to double check those "huge" wings. They were the main problem based on some silly RAF requirements based on hanger size.
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That would be no. Might want to double check those "huge" wings. They were the main problem based on some silly RAF requirements based on hanger size.
idk, the exact quote from wikipedia was.
"But the pilots were delighted that the big wings gave the stirling the ability to outturn the ju88 and me110 nightfighters that came up after it". or something like that.
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The wingspan was limited on the Stirling due to the need for it to be moved into RAF hangers that had 100 foot doors. this meant that the Stirling had 99 foot wingspan. It could never get the altitude of the Lanc or Halifax. When they knew Stirlings were with them, they were happy as the Stirlings would be the targets down lower for flak and fighters making it safer for the Lanc and Hali.
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Beaufighter
Ki-43
He-111
Pe-2
Me-410
P-61A/B
Yak-1 or Yak-3
Dinah
SM-79
Fiat CR-42
Fixed :neener:
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:aok for p-61 and throw in a sweet pby catalina it did win the battle of midway by spotting the jap cv's
and i have been in a pby when i was 14yrs old in 1997 cost me 5 bucks at an airshow
(http://consolidated-pby-catalina_2.jpg)
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:aok