Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dadsguns on January 29, 2011, 08:14:34 AM
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(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/Hubble.jpg)
"The farthest and one of the very earliest galaxies ever seen in the universe appears as a faint red blob in this ultra-deep–field exposure taken with NASA's Hubble Space Telescope. This is the deepest infrared image taken of the universe. Based on the object's color, astronomers believe it is 13.2 billion light-years away."
This picture is simply amazing and hard to really comprehend the enormity of it all and how small and fragile our planet is compared to the vast reaches of space and time. When this picture aired on NBC Nightly news I paused it and with my Plasma TV it was incredible the detail in that image, explaining it to my kids was really fun and they were amazed at it all, they kind of get it but the scale of it is even hard for me to grasp. There is plans for another space telescope to replace the Hubble which will bring even more incredible pictures that are far more detailed.
Keep in mind, that every galaxy captured in this frame was taken from a portion of the night sky the size of a postage stamp. Just incredible that we have yet to explore like this 360 degrees around earth and what else we will find.
Life out there? mathematically it must exist in some shape or form. We are only kidding ourself if we thing we are alone in such a vast and endless probability. IMO.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q&NR=1
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There was a gamma ray blast so powerful a few years back that it was visible to the naked eye from almost 8 billion light years away. Couple years ago when I was at full speed into discovering astronomy I'd literally get vertigo when I stepped outside at night with such black skies you could see Andromeda. The scale of things was crazy.
If you mean James Webb telescope as Hubble replacement, it won't be as much visible spectrum pix. It's an infrared telescope.
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It's been a long time since I've been somewhere with so little light pollution that the night sky is actually clear enough to see many stars. Seems I remember growing up in the suburbs in the 80s and being able to see FAR more than what's visible now.
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If you mean James Webb telescope as Hubble replacement, it won't be as much visible spectrum pix. It's an infrared telescope.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/270px-JWST-HST-primary-mirrors.jpg)
Yes, its an infrared telscope, it will be able to peer through gas formations as well to see more as this picture example below. Top is visible light spectrum, bottom is infrared. The details will be amazing. But just much further out than the Hubble can see.
(http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj131/bayoubeach/Carina_Nebula_in_Visible_and_Infrared.jpg)
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If there is life out there that can manage space travel it's likely that they are predators like us.
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I think it would be ridiculous to think there's not some form of life out there. I'll believe in intelligent life when I see it here.
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I think it would be ridiculous to think there's not some form of life out there. I'll believe in intelligent life when I see it here.
We're still looking for it on earth....
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We're still looking for it on earth....
yep :lol
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We're still looking for it on earth....
exactly
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It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not everyone is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the universe is said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and any people you meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
Douglas Adams
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The shift of astronomy towards the infra-red is due to the drive for observing farther and farther galaxies. Almost all light at wavelengths shorter than 911 angstroms (in the UV range) is absorbed by the gas inside the galaxies. When observing far galaxies, this cut-off is shifted into longer wavelengths due to the redshift (Doppler) effect. The farthest galaxies that were found are at about redshift of 8, which means that the cutoff wavelength is shifted by factor (1+z) to about 9000 Angstroms - this is outside the visible rage and into the near infra-red. That is why future telescopes focus more on those wavelengths.
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< pokes his toe in the water just for fun because I like to :bhead
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q&NR=1
I got that beat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY)
:tn
Wab
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Are we really alone? a ridiculus question.
the real question is, are we really alone in our galaxy, and it looks like, yes.
our galaxie is aprox 100 000 lightyears wide, so the light from the widest star
in our galaxie hit us the last 100 000 years and still no no contact.... _(strange)
a wise man once said, a species (any kind) have to survive at leat 200 000 years
to get (maybe) in contact with another life form.
it still didnt happend, because its to early for us humans, we need a minimum of additional 100 000 years.
plenty of room...BUT if we get a signal from such an OLD galaxie (you talking about), and we respond today,
it would took us another 13.2 bill. lightyears until our signal hit them, and if they send
a signal back it would take another 13.2 bill. lightyears until it reaches us back....
theoretically, but that time our signal hit the distant galaxie back, they would allready not exsist :D
anyway, so it would take us aprox 26.4 bill. lightyears to get an answere.
you see its just ridiculus ;)
WE will never know, maybe in between the next 100 000 years inside our galaxie,
and even then to get an echo, we need another 200 000 years ;)
and all this is is done with the speed of photons (light)
but moving real humans around in the galaxie would cost us much much much more time :D
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I'd like to live forever just to see the alien invasion in 3000 lol :lol ;)
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The real problem with thinking of alien intelligence is.....for how long in a species history would the kinds of signals we listen for actually be used? We've been using them for just under 100 years, about 1/60th of our recorded history or 1/1000th of our species' estimated time of existence or 1/38,000,000th the estimated time life has existed on Earth. How long before radio signals aren't used for communications much?
An alien species' version of SETI could have pointed at our star 5,000 years ago, after all it is probably the prime kind of star to listen at, and they would have found nothing, even if they kept checking back for the next 4,900 years they wouldn't catch a hint that we were here.
Look at that and think of the odds, should two sentient species meet, of them having anything like similar levels of technology.
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A real buzzkill for dreamers would be that we are the most advanced species in the universe.
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Of course there is life out there. How do u think we got here.
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"Are we alone in this universe?"
Well... what do YOU think? It really just depends on what you believe in. Do you have faith? A science education? A religion you follow? The list goes on. As of right now, there is not a single evidence of life elsewhere in the universe. So right now, life does not exist in the universe until we find PROOF.
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"Are we alone in this universe?"
Well... what do YOU think? It really just depends on what you believe in. Do you have faith? A science education? A religion you follow? The list goes on. As of right now, there is not a single evidence of life elsewhere in the universe. So right now, life does not exist in the universe until we find PROOF.
There are between 10 sextillion and 1 septillion stars in the Universe. I would say the odds of intelligent life out there is astronomical. ;)
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As of right now, there is not a single evidence of life elsewhere in the universe.
Except for possible fossils found on Mars by the rovers, H2o ice on Mars found by Odyssey, and the vast oceans which once covered it's surface. There WAS life on Mars, right next door. Not to mention liquid water on Io under the ice caps, which means there is likely life there. (name me one place on earth where there is liquid water without life.) All this in our very own tiny solar system.
I think you have the definition of evidence wrong, it does not mean holding ET life in your own hands and seeing it with your own eyes. Evidence can be, and often is based on statistics and circumstance, and right now there is plenty of statistical and circumstantial evidence of other life in the universe, lots of it, some possibly in our own solar system.
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Except for fossils found on Mars by the rovers, H2o ice on Mars found by Odyssey, and the vast oceans which once covered it's surface. There WAS life on Mars, right next door. Not to mention liquid water on Io under the ice caps, which means there is likely life there. (name me one place on earth where there is liquid water without life.) All this in our very own tiny solar system.
I think you have the definition of evidence wrong, it does not mean holding ET life in your own hands and seeing it with your own eyes. Evidence can be, and often is based on statistics and circumstance, and right now there is plenty of statistical and circumstantial evidence of other life in the universe, lots of it, some possibly in our own solar system.
please post where you found this dribble
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Are we really alone? a ridiculus question.
the real question is, are we really alone in our galaxy, and it looks like, yes.
our galaxie is aprox 100 000 lightyears wide, so the light from the widest star
in our galaxie hit us the last 100 000 years and still no no contact.... _(strange)
a wise man once said, a species (any kind) have to survive at leat 200 000 years
to get (maybe) in contact with another life form.
it still didnt happend, because its to early for us humans, we need a minimum of additional 100 000 years.
plenty of room...BUT if we get a signal from such an OLD galaxie (you talking about), and we respond today,
it would took us another 13.2 bill. lightyears until our signal hit them, and if they send
a signal back it would take another 13.2 bill. lightyears until it reaches us back....
theoretically, but that time our signal hit the distant galaxie back, they would allready not exsist :D
anyway, so it would take us aprox 26.4 bill. lightyears to get an answere.
you see its just ridiculus ;)
WE will never know, maybe in between the next 100 000 years inside our galaxie,
and even then to get an echo, we need another 200 000 years ;)
and all this is is done with the speed of photons (light)
but moving real humans around in the galaxie would cost us much much much more time :D
Your making the assumption that "they" want to, or have tried to contact us. Also your whole premise about communication and travel at or near light speed is pointless. Even with our puny beginning of understanding of stuff like quantum entanglement, we are beginning to see that faster then light communication is possible. Faster then light travel can't be far behind, whether it's wormholes or extra-dimensional or whatever.
There could be civilizations out there (in our galaxy) that have millions of years of advancement on us. Why would they want to contact us, we are like babes in the woods, we have nothing to offer such an advanced society. Perhaps they know we exist and are happy to let us find our own way, then if we survive and evolve past our present stage of humanity, maybe then they will contact us, or maybe not. Like the "prime directive" from Star Trek, yes.. a cheesy show, put that principle seems realistic to me.
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please post where you found this dribble
Ummmm, just some crackpots nutjobs at a little place called NASA.
Ice on Mars, from the Odyssey spacecraft.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqseVB498lr5LlmFPt4m9HttPHD1Kp7AUVWAn3JMqWIVmOB-Xx) notice the ice sublimating in the bottom left of the trench.
Ice exposed by meteor impact photographed by the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter
(http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/388887main_mars_ice_690x226.jpg)
Concretions on Mars
(http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/010/cache/mars-blueberries_1066_600x450.jpg)
the rovers found these little "blueberries" everywhere, and they could only have been formed by liquid water, see story here http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2004/88.cfm. NASA freely admits now that they believe Mars was once covered by vast oceans. See this story http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/news/mro20101031.html as just one example.
Or this story http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/mer/news/mer20101028.html where a rover found evidence of "recent snow melt"
As for fossils the rovers took pictures of several things that "could be" fossils, NASA has always just stopped short of using the F-word though. They have stated that the next rover will be landed in an area they expect to be a "fossil hotbed" <- folks from NASA's words not mine.
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A real buzzkill for dreamers would be that we are the most advanced species in the universe.
It sucks for sure not to be predated.The real problem with thinking of alien intelligence is.....for how long in a species history would the kinds of signals we listen for actually be used? We've been using them for just under 100 years, about 1/60th of our recorded history or 1/1000th of our species' estimated time of existence or 1/38,000,000th the estimated time life has existed on Earth. How long before radio signals aren't used for communications much?
An alien species' version of SETI could have pointed at our star 5,000 years ago, after all it is probably the prime kind of star to listen at, and they would have found nothing, even if they kept checking back for the next 4,900 years they wouldn't catch a hint that we were here.
Look at that and think of the odds, should two sentient species meet, of them having anything like similar levels of technology.
I think taking this idea further gives slightly different picture, as far as odds of just meeting (but consistent with tech level mismatch): if ours is any clue, a civilization ought to go thru growing pains (chance of wiping itself out) and then acclimatize to the open universe.. If so (e.g. ramping up the Kardashev scale), beaming out signals thru some outdated tech ought to be pretty easy.
Personally, I'd agree with Hawking. Let's grow some sturdy roots into the worlds of this system, at the very least, before inviting anyone over. Space travel might be a universal time/space buffer of protection, but it's a huge universe and it's not wise to assume anything.. E.G. what if instead of flying over here, some aliens just get rid of us by pointing an Eta Carina at us, or some other thing we don't know about.
Saggs - the key thing you left out of your second set of replies is how water must equate to "life".
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There probably is life out there in the universe. Maybe something like a cow and some grass, but certainly no Vulcans.
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I just wait when Cylons are coming back.... :old:
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A real buzzkill for dreamers would be that we are the most advanced species in the universe.
It sucks for sure not to be predated.
Put another way - dreamers aren't gonna see any alien species in their lifetimes anyway. So they're literally all about the dreaming. And there's plenty to dream of should we be most advanced for long enough to see something like a tech singularity to happen, where it's quite possible for humanity to branch off into different species. There's no clues yet that we've exhausted much of what the universe has to offer, as far as discoveries go. IOW today's leading edge in theoretical physics, etc, is probably at least as primitive as silex flint is to e.g. the LHC, to "technology" a few hundred or a thousand years from now. It'll probably be alien to us today in all but name.
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The real problem with thinking of alien intelligence is.....for how long in a species history would the kinds of signals we listen for actually be used?
This is also why we should be very very worried if we actually received something 10-20 000 lightyears away. We'd be just that much behind in technology should they decide to give a visit.
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Mathematically, it is nearly impossible that we are alone in an endless universe. There is no question about intelligent life existing elsewhere in the infinite number of galaxies. The question is simply where does intelligent life exist. We should search all planets, not just ones similar to Earth. It's possible aliens drink radioactive waste on a planet where the normal temperature is 400 degrees Celsius. Food for thought... :salute
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Mathematically, it is nearly impossible that we are alone in an endless universe. There is no question about intelligent life existing elsewhere in the infinite number of galaxies. The question is simply where does intelligent life exist. We should search all planets, not just ones similar to Earth. It's possible aliens drink radioactive waste on a planet where the normal temperature is 400 degrees Celsius. Food for thought... :salute
Intresting thought, we do have life forms that can tolerate extremes as this and survive.
I think the idea was to find the perfect setup or most probable, but that is a good point not to overlook some other extremes.
Sax, Wabbit, awesome videos btw. Nice finds.
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How earth became as we know it
Golgafrincham is a red semi-desert planet that is home of the Great Circling Poets of Arium and a species of particularly inspiring lichen. Its people decided it was time to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population, and so the descendants of the Circling Poets concocted a story that their planet would shortly be destroyed in a great catastrophe. (It was apparently under threat from a "mutant star goat"). The useless third of the population (consisting of hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, telephone sanitisers and the like) were packed into the B-Ark, one of three giant Ark spaceships, and told that everyone else would follow shortly in the other two. The other two thirds of the population, of course, did not follow and "led full, rich and happy lives until they were all suddenly wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone".
The B-Ark was programmed to crash-land on a suitably remote planet on one of the outer spiral arms of the galaxy, which happened to be Earth, and the Golgafrinchan rejects gradually mingled with and usurped the native cavemen, becoming the ancestors of humanity and thereby altering the course of the great experiment to find the question for the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything, or so Ford Prefect presumes. A lot of them didn't make it through the winter three years prior to Arthur Dent's reunion with Ford Prefect, and the few who remained in the spring said they needed a holiday and set out on a raft. History says they must have survived
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How earth became as we know it........................... .............
............................. ..History says they must have survived
I know you guys have had alot of snow up there, but you have to get outside more, change the air filters too.... :uhoh
:lol
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Why man? Its totally far out in here :D
Its a cut and paste from "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" book. Great read BTW :)
Speaking of ice and snow, forcast for .37" of ice and 7 for snow, while just a little west they are forcast for 15" of the white stuff. As the look of things the ice could very possible be all freezing rain
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Your making the assumption that "they" want to, or have tried to contact us. Also your whole premise about communication and travel at or near light speed is pointless. Even with our puny beginning of understanding of stuff like quantum entanglement, we are beginning to see that faster then light communication is possible. Faster then light travel can't be far behind, whether it's wormholes or extra-dimensional or whatever.
There could be civilizations out there (in our galaxy) that have millions of years of advancement on us. Why would they want to contact us, we are like babes in the woods, we have nothing to offer such an advanced society. Perhaps they know we exist and are happy to let us find our own way, then if we survive and evolve past our present stage of humanity, maybe then they will contact us, or maybe not. Like the "prime directive" from Star Trek, yes.. a cheesy show, put that principle seems realistic to me.
sci-fi eh? ;)
you talk about "we are beginning to see that faster then light communication is possible", this is pur nonsense, where is this info from?
one word, Einstein, ..nothing is faster the light, nothing. And physics never changed the last few years.
Read some books from Brian greene (theoretical physicist and one of the best-known string theorists around).
Nobody have seen a wormhole, theoreticaly it maybe exisist at a black hole, maybe!
So to build one of those things ( we still dont know if this really is possible) we need alot matter,
a few of our suns, if possible a few more, crop this all into a black hole, and jump into it (what you are calling wormhole)
and see what happen or where you exit ;)
sorry but pur nonsense.
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the speed of thought is faster then the speed of light.....and once this age is over we will be able to move at the speed of thought. Then we will know if anything else is out there. Long before that happens we humans are gonna destroy this earth by fire....
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Are we really alone? a ridiculus question.
the real question is, are we really alone in our galaxy, and it looks like, yes.
our galaxie is aprox 100 000 lightyears wide, so the light from the widest star
in our galaxie hit us the last 100 000 years and still no no contact.... _(strange)
a wise man once said, a species (any kind) have to survive at leat 200 000 years
to get (maybe) in contact with another life form.
it still didnt happend, because its to early for us humans, we need a minimum of additional 100 000 years.
plenty of room...BUT if we get a signal from such an OLD galaxie (you talking about), and we respond today,
it would took us another 13.2 bill. lightyears until our signal hit them, and if they send
a signal back it would take another 13.2 bill. lightyears until it reaches us back....
theoretically, but that time our signal hit the distant galaxie back, they would allready not exsist :D
anyway, so it would take us aprox 26.4 bill. lightyears to get an answere.
you see its just ridiculus ;)
WE will never know, maybe in between the next 100 000 years inside our galaxie,
and even then to get an echo, we need another 200 000 years ;)
and all this is is done with the speed of photons (light)
but moving real humans around in the galaxie would cost us much much much more time :D
you never know...
there could be another colony in our galaxy, thats more advanced than us in some ways, but less advanced in other ways.
like, there way of living is MUCH more advanced, but there military power isent. therefore they could be cloaking themselves, simply not wanting to be known in fear that if they are discovered they would be killed off for there land.
i wouldnt blame them for thinking this anyways, they have plenty of evidence to see here on earth of it. all those ufos we see? maybe its them checking on us, making sure that we dont know of them yet. making sure we're not building giant space battleships to come invade them with.
crop circles? maybe thats a warning in there language to other forms of life in the galaxy to stay away from us, we're a deadly race that feeds off destruction, and there warning others to stay away from earth because of this.
just look how we've ravaged earth? no other planet could ever want us on it. we've pretty much destroyed earth. i dont feel 2012 will be the end of world. i believe it will be the end of mankind, the year that planet earth finally gets tired of putting up with our crap, and eradicates us to save herself. sure, ALL human life will be killed, but if you think about it, you cant blame mother earth for making it happen. its pretty much humanity dies, or the Earth does. and the Earth is much more important than we are.
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you never know...
there could be another colony in our galaxy, thats more advanced than us in some ways, but less advanced in other ways.
no, not with the knowledge today,
from measurements of the Cosmic Microwave Background, the whole Universe is aprox 13,7 bill. years old.
Observations of the first generation of stars in our Milky Way that formed soon after the end of "Dark Ages"
this was aprox 13,2 bill. years ago.
Our SOlar System is aprox 4,6 bill. years old.
the earth is aprox 4.55 bill. years old
and we humans exist aprox 160.000-250000 years.
what does all means?
to build us (humans) in our galaxy it took aprox 4.6 bill. years,
so in other words, the ET's out there in our Galaxy should be at the same
level what we are now, nothing was build earlier (maybe in other galaxys)
but they are way to far away anyway to get an signal in our life-time.
Since at least 1900, our first radio signals have traveled a distance of 129 light years.
Since our galaxy measures about 100,000 light years across, these signals have traveled
only about 1/1,000th the width of the Milky Way.
That would mean there are maybe 30 to 100 stars that would have picked up our Radio signals noise by now.
And remember, those stars, needs planets where life can exist, and allready build radios...
like i said, we need another 100000 years to get sure if we are alone.
We are the first, at the beginning, like maybe others in our galaxy.
otherwise we should allready made contact.
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sci-fi eh? ;)
you talk about "we are beginning to see that faster then light communication is possible", this is pur nonsense, where is this info from?
one word, Einstein, ..nothing is faster the light, nothing. And physics never changed the last few years.
So... you're saying that in the 50+ years since Einstein's work we have learned nothing new about physics and quantum mechanics???? Sorry Einstein was great but he was not the end all and be all of physics.
You're saying this stuff is impossible just because "WE" haven't figured it out yet, but seriously, with civilizations possibly millions of years more advanced then us, you don't think "THEY" have figured out a bit more about how the universe works then us.
Yes... faster then light communication is possible, read up on quantum entanglement. :aok
EDIT: here's a link for you. http://calitreview.com/51
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u cant send informations through "quantum entanglement"
You are talking about the EPR paradox that was described by.. eh Albert Einstein ;)
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no, not with the knowledge today,
from measurements of the Cosmic Microwave Background, the whole Universe is aprox 13,7 bill. years old.
Observations of the first generation of stars in our Milky Way that formed soon after the end of "Dark Ages"
this was aprox 13,2 bill. years ago.
Our SOlar System is aprox 4,6 bill. years old.
the earth is aprox 4.55 bill. years old
and we humans exist aprox 160.000-250000 years.
what does all means?
to build us (humans) in our galaxy it took aprox 4.6 bill. years,
so in other words, the ET's out there in our Galaxy should be at the same
level what we are now, nothing was build earlier (maybe in other galaxys)
but they are way to far away anyway to get an signal in our life-time.
Since at least 1900, our first radio signals have traveled a distance of 129 light years.
Since our galaxy measures about 100,000 light years across, these signals have traveled
only about 1/1,000th the width of the Milky Way.
That would mean there are maybe 30 to 100 stars that would have picked up our Radio signals noise by now.
And remember, those stars, needs planets where life can exist, and allready build radios...
like i said, we need another 100000 years to get sure if we are alone.
We are the first, at the beginning, like maybe others in our galaxy.
otherwise we should allready made contact.
thats assuming whatever out there is HUMAN. what if its not?science has been proven wrong many times. we have found signs of other organisms in our galaxy (we have found some on saturns/jupiters moons).
plus, maybe we HAVE discovered another colony in our galaxy, but the military is keeping a tight lid on it. i could believe this. it would coenside with the goverments "they dont excist" policy.
you never know, its all mystery.
but i never 100% believe science, some things are just better left kept a mystery.
to quote one of my favorite movies (jurrasic park)
"what you call discovery, i call rape of the natural world".
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Tyrannis, why so complicated?
think simple, everyone like to know if they are alone,
why would other species think different?
of course, if they are bacteries they first have to build up larger,
before asking this question ;)
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the speed of thought is faster then the speed of light.....and once this age is over we will be able to move at the speed of thought. Then we will know if anything else is out there. Long before that happens we humans are gonna destroy this earth by fire....
Yup
Are you familiar with Michio Kaku's whole type 0,1,2,3 civilizations. Basically we are type 0, in the next thousand years or less, we will either make it to type 1, or we will destroy ourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdILmgJGuvw
I think he's right on.
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Tyrannis, why so complicated?
think simple, everyone like to know if they are alone,
why would other species think different?
of course, if they are bacteries they first have to build up larger,
before asking this question ;)
im just saying my opinion, but i'll raise you one last question.
what if, they have allready made contact with our leaders? and pleaded with them to keep there existance secret to the rest of the world? could be why theres so much coverup. just a thought. :headscratch:
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u cant send informations through "quantum entanglement"
You are talking about the EPR paradox that was described by.. eh Albert Einstein ;)
Not yet, we can't send info, but given a few hundred or thousand years and I bet humanity would figure it out.
Nope, not what I'm talking about. Einstein did not agree with entanglement theory, but later experiments proved him wrong.
:O shocking I know, but yup... Einstein was wrong about a few things. He was the greatest mind in his field in his time, but he was not infallible.
Read the link I posted before, or better yet read the guys book.
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Tyrannis,
think this way, we humans travel to the next planet, would we act the way you describe it?
Keep it secret, just talk to Team A ?
why? there is no logic behind.
Think about it...
i think different, a real contact would not be a coverup,
it would be something wonderfull, a chance, an eye opener or something this way,
but years later this could end up in diffrerences, like it happen here on the earth,
and lead to not so wonderfull ends ;)
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Tyrannis,
think this way, we humans travel to the next planet, would we act the way you describe it?
Keep it secret, just talk to Team A ?
why? there is no logic behind.
Think about it...
i think different, a real contact would not be a coverup,
it would be something wonderfull, a chance, an eye opener or something this way,
but years later this could end up in diffrerences, like it happen here on the earth,
and lead to not so wonderfull ends ;)
ive allready stated a reason why they wouldnt want us to "discover" them.they could possable have lot of something we vitaly need on earth, and look history what happens when one colony of ppl had something another colony needed? the other colony pretty much wipes the other out. in order to get what they need. that would give the other "kind" reason to not want to be publicly discovered, there afraid we'd try to wipe them out. all they have to do is look at human history to find out what would happen to them.
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129 LY volume, all of it (for argument's sake) lit up with our radiation for 100 years. That's a sphere volume of 129 LY inside a galaxy that's about 2,000 LY thick in the disc area (16,000 LY at central bulge) and 100,000 LY diameter. And an illumination period of 100 years out of the galaxy's roughly 10 billion years of age. And a means of communication that's just one out of at least as many means of communication as we know.. Assuming no other fractional factors (e.g. our emissions obstructed somehow), that we haven't heard anything ourselves (only 1/2 the equation of human-alien contact) is no guarantee that there's no life or intelligent life out there.
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i think there really is a thing called the men in black and that some ppl are really aliens in suits that look like ppl. and same goes for the sr71 i think its reverse engineered from alien ships, i mean cmon plane goes mach 3 and there isnt even color TV yet. bet my neighbors are aliens too they creepy or some ppl who work at walmart.
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129 LY volume, all of it (for argument's sake) lit up with our radiation for 100 years. That's a sphere volume of 129 LY inside a galaxy that's about 2,000 LY thick in the disc area (16,000 LY at central bulge) and 100,000 LY diameter. And an illumination period of 100 years out of the galaxy's roughly 10 billion years of age. And a means of communication that's just one out of at least as many means of communication as we know.. Assuming no other fractional factors (e.g. our emissions obstructed somehow), that we haven't heard anything ourselves (only 1/2 the equation of human-alien contact) is no guarantee that there's no life or intelligent life out there.
the same thing works the other way around, no guarantee that there's life or intelligent life out there,
it would be equal, but since we dont have contact yet, no life gets an additional point and wins, at least today ;)
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i think there really is a thing called the men in black and that some ppl are really aliens in suits that look like ppl. and same goes for the sr71 i think its reverse engineered from alien ships, i mean cmon plane goes mach 3 and there isnt even color TV yet. bet my neighbors are aliens too they creepy or some ppl who work at walmart.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :noid
:D
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ive allready stated a reason why they wouldnt want us to "discover" them.they could possable have lot of something we vitaly need on earth, and look history what happens when one colony of ppl had something another colony needed? the other colony pretty much wipes the other out. in order to get what they need. that would give the other "kind" reason to not want to be publicly discovered, there afraid we'd try to wipe them out. all they have to do is look at human history to find out what would happen to them.
Is this kid serious?
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the same thing works the other way around, no guarantee that there's life or intelligent life out there,
it would be equal, but since we dont have contact yet, no life gets an additional point and wins, at least today ;)
There are no guarantees, but the statistical evidence greatly favors one side.
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i think there really is a thing called the men in black and that some ppl are really aliens in suits that look like ppl. and same goes for the sr71 i think its reverse engineered from alien ships, i mean cmon plane goes mach 3 and there isnt even color TV yet. bet my neighbors are aliens too they creepy or some ppl who work at walmart.
Sugar is bad
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Saggs~no never heard of him or his theory.....what I typed,was what I got from reading the Bible.
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Someday star wars reality...
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Two things happened in close succession this last summer (2010).
1. The United Nations appointed a female Doctor from Malaysia to be the person that spearheads the first contact. I can't remember her name. I'll Google it. Here it is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1315336/United-Nations-appoint-space-ambassador-act-contact-aliens-visiting-Earth.html
2. Something else happened within weeks of #1, only problem is that I can't remember what it was. I do remember thinking to myself, "Holy crap!"
They must have gotten me with the little flashy thingy. (Neurolizer?)
I'm stocking up on tin hats, I recommend you all do the same.
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Two things happened in close succession this last summer (2010).
1. The United Nations appointed a female Doctor from Malaysia to be the person that spearheads the first contact. I can't remember her name. I'll Google it. Here it is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1315336/United-Nations-appoint-space-ambassador-act-contact-aliens-visiting-Earth.html
2. Something else happened within weeks of #1, only problem is that I can't remember what it was. I do remember thinking to myself, "Holy crap!"
They must have gotten me with the little flashy thingy. (Neurolizer?)
I'm stocking up on tin hats, I recommend you all do the same.
they discovered that new planet that could possably contain life?
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the same thing works the other way around, no guarantee that there's life or intelligent life out there,
it would be equal, but since we dont have contact yet, no life gets an additional point and wins, at least today ;)
Yes, that's what I was saying. You can't nearly make absolute negative statement yet, like you did above. Unless you meant strictly within that 129 LY sphere, that we're alone without a doubt..
That we're definitely the first is still less certain. It took us as long as it did to get where we are today, but that, neither, is guarantee that there's no other life or intelligent life out there. All it takes is for our physics to have missed some fundamental thing for all our assumptions about communication or what the signatures of life are, to be wrong and with them all our estimations and assessments of what we've seen about the universe from over here.
Even in a fairly anthropomorphic premise, that some other intelligence needed as long as we did to evolve to our present stage, there's still plenty of leeway for them to be thousands, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of years ahead of us. What would humans from that far back in the past think of our technology or philosophies? Indistinguishable from magic in more than a few cases. What about developments centuries or thousands of years, or tens or hundreds of thousands of years further into the future? Even to us the odds are good that we'd find them alien in all but name, if we even managed to notice them - what if our universe is just one small bubble on a vast multiverse tree? What if the world's just a hologram? And so on. The only thing that matches the vertiginous scale of the universe, it so large it even has such a thing as an observable horizon, is the mind bending implications for such a thing as an ever-growing grasp of the laws of nature, forever uprooting and rewriting our "laws" of physics and allowing possibilities so vast that even our most eccentric and most holistic contemporary perspectives are barely even specs of dust in comparison.
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My view is straight forward.
Each star system has a planet formation, and as there are inumerous stars with planets in their orbit there is an infinite number of sentient species.
And as technology advances and we reach out, its a safe bet that the Armunioids of Reayath (random name) are doing the same thing, and we will bump into each other sooner or later.
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If you believe in evolution, and we're the first species to evolve 'intelligent' (i.e. self-aware) life. Then by definition we must be dumbest intelligent species around.
Furthermore - look at what we do to each other. Supposedly intelligent are we? How many wars / deaths have been needless. Terrorists want to kill us because we don't agree with them. They kill for an opinion. Few rich nations pay more than scant attention to our starving brothers because ... well I'm not really sure, are you?
...and what happens when a more advanced civilisation meets a less advanced civilisation?
If there's a more advanced civilisation out there, then I reckon their view of humanity won't be great. At best we're pretty stupid, at worst we're insane.
Let's hope the aliens out there, if any, are more benevolent and less war-like than we are.
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If you believe in evolution, and we're the first species to evolve 'intelligent' (i.e. self-aware) life. Then by definition we must be dumbest intelligent species around.
Furthermore - look at what we do to each other. Supposedly intelligent are we? How many wars / deaths have been needless. Terrorists want to kill us because we don't agree with them. They kill for an opinion. Few rich nations pay more than scant attention to our starving brothers because ... well I'm not really sure, are you?
...and what happens when a more advanced civilisation meets a less advanced civilisation?
If there's a more advanced civilisation out there, then I reckon their view of humanity won't be great. At best we're pretty stupid, at worst we're insane.
Let's hope the aliens out there, if any, are more benevolent and less war-like than we are.
anthropomorphism
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Is there other life in the universe?
Here, I put these two images side by side. The background is a choice snippet from a 3D simulation of a vast area of the known universe. The foreground is a depiction of neuron networks in the brain.
Any similarities you notice?
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/bigbrain2.JPG)
Is there other life in the universe? My answer is that the universe is life on a scale we cannot comprehend. For all we know the universe is a growing brain of a newly conceived feotus. That may explain the expansion. It may also explain the 'In the beggining there was nothing...which exploded' big bang theory.
Our universe is life, we never have been alone in this cosmos.
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Is there other life in the universe?
Here, I put these two images side by side. The background is a choice snippet from a 3D simulation of a vast area of the known universe. The foreground is a depiction of neuron networks in the brain.
Any similarities you notice?
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/bigbrain2.JPG)
Is there other life in the universe? My answer is that the universe is life on a scale we cannot comprehend. For all we know the universe is a growing brain of a newly conceived feotus. That may explain the expansion. It may also explain the 'In the beggining there was nothing...which exploded' big bang theory.
Our universe is life, we never have been alone in this cosmos.
Maybe Douglas Adams got it only half right - the scale is much bigger than earth. Now where's my towel?
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Look at the science fiction of 50-60 years ago, much of what they were writing about we have today.
Heck look at star trek, we have flip communicators (cell phones) Tricorders (ipad?) etc.
Project that trend 50, 200 years in the future. You don't think someone will figure a way around the whole light speed thing? I think its just a question of time, and finding a better way up out of the gravity well.
Once we can cross interstellar distances in weeks not decades finding other intelligent life is a question of time.
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Look at the science fiction of 50-60 years ago, much of what they were writing about we have today.
Heck look at star trek, we have flip communicators (cell phones) Tricorders (ipad?) etc.
Flip communicators - They had them back then. They were called radios. Only change so far has been the size of them
iPad - Just a smaller laptop or close to it. It does not have the power of a laptop yet. How does it compare to a tricorder?
etc - Like????? Martians attacking?
We went to the moon without the flip communicators or the iPad tricorders but have not been back in 40 years. My point is, we have not advanced as match as we like to think lol. If you guys think we will be traveling faster than light any time soon you are being too optimistic.
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There's been some spectrometers developed that are roughly hand held size.
There's been lots of lab-on-a-chip development recently, and I presume they could be swapped in and out of such a hand held device.
http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/2006/03/beam_me_up_scot.html (http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/2006/03/beam_me_up_scot.html)
The Moon metric isn't particularly good. That one's due in major part to politics, not technology. Very recently some admins inside NASA have blocked some designs that meet the requirements that Congress demanded of NASA for the launcher that's meant to replace Shuttle. Also see the rotten practices of ATK relative to the use of its solid rocket boosters. The list goes on.
FTL - Look up Mach/Woodward Effect thrusters and wormhole generators.
http://www.cphonx.net/weffect/alt.php
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=13020.0 (it's as long as it's comprehensive in debate)
Not arguing this is it, or how likely it is to pan out, but arguing the dynamics of it: this thing is not researched, only shunned. No one that I've seen has successfully defeated the theoretical foundations of the conjecture (unlike any of the other fringe items like EM Drive, Blacklightpower, etc), only argued the ludicrousness of its implications. A symptom of a less-than-ruthless search for game changing science and technology.
etc-
Metamaterials, memristors, nanotube and graphene applications, organ synthesis, solid roadmap to curing aging, RNA nanomanufacture, major gene sequencing advances, many different schemes attempting useful fusion in ITER's shadow, Thorium fission schemes in the meantime (China just announced they're doing it), numerous alternatives to traditional silicon schemes to computing so Moore's Law-ish progress in computing power continues for the foreseeable future, significant progress in AI automation....
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Flip communicators - They had them back then. They were called radios. Only change so far has been the size of them
Off topic, but I want one!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUeQJXznCtY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUeQJXznCtY)
:pray,
Wab
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The Moon metric isn't particularly good. That one's due in major part to politics, not technology. Very recently some admins inside NASA have blocked some designs that meet the requirements that Congress demanded of NASA for the launcher that's meant to replace Shuttle. Also see the rotten practices of ATK relative to the use of its solid rocket boosters. The list goes on.
I think it is a pretty good measure. No matter what the reasons, the result is the same. Even the private sector has not been able to sell 5 day cruises around the moon and back - for example - in 40 years. That's what I mean by being way too optimistic. If the private sector did not get it done in 40 years, I don;t expect the governments and politicians to do anything with any speed.
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Private sector only very recently got on the case. Can't argue with something that hasn't happened yet, but a handful look set to make a lot of progress, e.g. Space X, Bigelow, Masten/Armadillo, Scaled/Virgin, Blue Origin, SpaceDev.
If you have consistent technological progress dammed back by politics, you can get an appearance of stagnation while tech is making lots of headway.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5408317388_12380f070b_b.jpg)
Masten and Armadillo made tons of progress, mainly thru the NGLLC Xprize. Developed pretty impressive VTVLs. Definitely will be a major milestone in the evolutionary tree if we eventually get something like the express postal delivery VTVLs in Vernor Vinge's Rainbow's End. On top of any of the intended purposes - lunar lander technology.
Technology which also applies to circumstances like SpaceX's Dragon capsule, should it land vertically like they intend to:
http://www.spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=58 @ 4'32"
Bigelow's literally pioneering the habitat aspect. Using tech that illustrates how politics can obfuscate substantial tech progress: Bigelow did all this with TransHab tech developed and abandoned by NASA. Not only does he have countries signed up to use his orbital habitats, but these habitats can be applied beyond orbit, e.g. in this latest NASA design:
http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/telecon/Holderman-Henderson_1-26-11/
(http://dasmuppets.com/public/dlamb/nautilus_.png)
A major development.
Space X has been all over the news so there's not much I need to say. In the launcher biz it did in about a decade what just a handful of countries have done. They have plans in accordance with CEO Musk's objective: colonize space.
And the private sector in the last 40 years has been a major driver of progress. As much progress as SpaceX has made, it's still just a puppy compared to what ULA can do.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_J5rBxeTIk
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Cosmos At Least 250x Bigger Than Visible Universe, Say Cosmologists
http://arxiv.org/abs/1101.5476
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You don't think someone will figure a way around the whole light speed thing? I think its just a question of time, and finding a better way up out of the gravity well.
not me,
E=mc2, for normal Matter it is and will not be possible to travel faster then light.
Under the special theory of relativity, a slower-than-light particle with nonzero rest mass needs infinite energy to accelerate
to the speed of light. Objects who traveling near the speed of light, cannot move faster, no matter how much energy it absorbs.
Its momentum and energy continue to increase without bounds, whereas its speed approaches a constant value—the speed of light.
As the object approaches the speed of light, the relativistic mass grows infinitely, because the kinetic energy grows infinitely and this energy is associated with mass.
and this is not science fiction...
but finding a "better way around this problem" you talking about is cheating! ;)
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Wormholes
Alcubierre warping
And correspondingly more such things in the next thousands of years of better understanding nature.
Another private orbital access initiative for Dedalos - Reaction Engines' Skylon.
A successful EMC2 Polywell development would mean 1200 people on Mars for the price of a few Apollo landings.
http://www.askmar.com/Fusion_files/2007-5%20ISDC%20Presentation.pdf
more at http://www.askmar.com/Fusion.html
Low output from R&D doesn't mean no progress. No progress would be those R&D groups twiddling their thumbs. Roadblocks happen in R&D, and only in retrospect can you figure out how it could have been done without any delays. Progress doesn't happen on its own.
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not me,
E=mc2, for normal Matter it is and will not be possible to travel faster then light.
Under the special theory of relativity, a slower-than-light particle with nonzero rest mass needs infinite energy to accelerate
to the speed of light. Objects who traveling near the speed of light, cannot move faster, no matter how much energy it absorbs.
Its momentum and energy continue to increase without bounds, whereas its speed approaches a constant value—the speed of light.
As the object approaches the speed of light, the relativistic mass grows infinitely, because the kinetic energy grows infinitely and this energy is associated with mass.
and this is not science fiction...
but finding a "better way around this problem" you talking about is cheating! ;)
I do. I just don't think it will be any time soon. Don't forget that the theory of relativity is just that, a theory. Wont be long before it is destroyed by the next theory like it destroyed the old ones. For a while there earth used to be flat and the sun was going around it. Those theories seemed correct at the time and impossible to comprehend how they could not be true. Give it time. A looooong time lol
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Don't forget that the theory of relativity is just that, a theory.
its not science fiction
In particle colliders like the LHC, physicists use Einsteins E=mc2, to detect new particles.
LHC accelerate protons to 0.999999989 times the speed of light
a point where their kinetic energy exceeds their mass energy. When they collide their
huge kinetic energy can be converted, through E = mc2, into making new massive particles.
Theorys can be verified at the LHC or destroyed, a great tool.
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A theory's a principle that exists only in human model space. It's not an incantation. It's always up for reassessment.
There's some major missing pieces to the puzzle. E.G. what is the origin of inertia?
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If history has taught us nothing else. It has taught us to never pay too much attention to naysayers.
Its never been a matter if if something can be done. But in finding the way to do it.
“This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.” –Western Union internal memo, 1876
“Everyone acquainted with the subject will recognize it as a conspicuous failure.” –Henry Morton, President of the Stevens Institute of Technology, on Edison’s light bulb, 1880
“The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad.” –The President of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903.
“Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.” –Simon Newcomb; The Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk 18 months later
“Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You’re crazy.” –Associates of Edwin L. Drake mocking his idea to drill for oil, 1859.
“How, sir, would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you, excuse me, I have not the time to listen to such nonsense.” –Napoleon Bonaparte, when told of Robert Fulton’s steamboat plans, 1800s
“Very interesting Whittle, my boy, but it will never work.” –Cambridge Aeronautics Professor, when shown Frank Whittle’s plan for the jet engine.
And one of my all time favorites
“To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth – all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances.”
–Lee DeForest, Inventor of the vacuum tube, 1926.
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DRED- some funny stuff right there
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An interesting topic. I know I for one could sit and talk about the galaxy, other life-forms, and space in general all day long. It's abosolutely mind boggling, amazing subject. Many times I have come home at night, looked up into the crisp Maine sky, and seen the thousands of lights up there. It's on these nights that I get very little sleep. I keep myself up at night just thinking when I get on this subject!!
I think humans are a tad ignorant to think that we're the only intellignt life out there. As far as we know..."space" goes on forever. That's a long time...
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I go camping every year at a lake that has very little to no light pollution.
We are very fortunate when we have a combination of no clouds, no wind, no moon, which also means the lake is like glass, I will take the family, friends, and all the kids out in the middle of the lake and shut it down and just look up in pure amazement at the details that you simply cant see otherwise, just beautiful. With the waters reflection, you almost cant tell where the horizon starts or ends and gives you the feel of floating in space. :aok
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I think it is a pretty good measure. No matter what the reasons, the result is the same. Even the private sector has not been able to sell 5 day cruises around the moon and back - for example - in 40 years. That's what I mean by being way too optimistic. If the private sector did not get it done in 40 years, I don;t expect the governments and politicians to do anything with any speed.
And there's a huge technology/funding step from the seemingly small difference of earth orbit to circumlunar. As there is between sub-orbital and LEO. A whole other ball game.
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how can there be life on other planets? we are the universe. or was that just a dream im having? :huh
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And there's a huge technology/funding step from the seemingly small difference of earth orbit to circumlunar. As there is between sub-orbital and LEO. A whole other ball game.
All I am saying is that it has taken 40 years and I cannot catch a space ride. I not saying it will not happen. Just saying it will take a little longer than what people think
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its not science fiction
In particle colliders like the LHC, physicists use Einsteins E=mc2, to detect new particles.
LHC accelerate protons to 0.999999989 times the speed of light
a point where their kinetic energy exceeds their mass energy. When they collide their
huge kinetic energy can be converted, through E = mc2, into making new massive particles.
Theorys can be verified at the LHC or destroyed, a great tool.
Fiction? Who said anything about fiction? Its a theory questioned even by its own creator when tried to explain the universe. It also requires the use of some goofy constants and assumptions in order to fit it/explain some of the things going on in he universe, or what we think the universe is. I'm willing to be t that "the theory" would be changed/enhances/proven wrong way before we can catch flights to the moon as civilians.
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Well, you know at least as well as I do that public opinion usually ain't worth much as soon as it concerns thick technical matters.
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A theory's a principle that exists only in human model space. It's not an incantation. It's always up for reassessment.
There's some major missing pieces to the puzzle. E.G. what is the origin of inertia?
Or gravity forces...
My brain hurts when I try to comprehend current theories.
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The problem with theories is that they are just that: theories. An unproven explanation of something new or puzzling. Some people put too much faith in theories. The thing is, theories are really just a hypothesis that which a scientist came up with to explain the unexplainable. Scientists often put their own spin on things when they have no evidence to prove something in order to formulate a more "complete" theory.
You cannot come up with a probability of life existing on another planet. We don't know how big the universe is. There has been no evidence of life existing on any other planet that we have researched save for our own. Once, and IF we do, discover life forms on other planets, we can then make a more reasonable conclusion on just how much life there is in the universe.
Basically, we must know how big the universe is, and find life forms on other planets in order to come up with a "probability" statement of finding life elsewhere.
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All I am saying is that it has taken 40 years and I cannot catch a space ride. I not saying it will not happen. Just saying it will take a little longer than what people think
Sure ya can. You just need to have the wallet for it.
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Sure ya can. You just need to have the wallet for it.
I guess if you try hard enough to miss a point, you can :neener:
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Or gravity forces...
My brain hurts when I try to comprehend current theories.
Feynman's lectures (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0201021153?ie=UTF8&tag=poweandcont-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0201021153) are probably the most down to earth explanation of physics. I can't think of anyone who's more transparently articulated the material.
The law of gravitation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s-wfpsmtyU)
The relation of mathematics and physics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SrHzSGn-I8)
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The problem with theories is that they are just that: theories. An unproven explanation of something new or puzzling. Some people put too much faith in theories. The thing is, theories are really just a hypothesis that which a scientist came up with to explain the unexplainable. Scientists often put their own spin on things when they have no evidence to prove something in order to formulate a more "complete" theory.
...
A theory is used as the basis of calculations and the making/building of stuff. You're mixing it up with the word 'hypothesis'.
A hypothesis is unproven, but a theory is taken as 'the truth' (until a better theory comes around). Gravity is just theory - but I don't see anyone floating off into the sky.
A theory DOES have to have evidence to support it, otherwise it is a hypothesis. What you state is incorrect.
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If history has taught us nothing else. It has taught us to never pay too much attention to naysayers.
Its never been a matter if if something can be done. But in finding the way to do it.
“This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.” –Western Union internal memo, 1876
“Everyone acquainted with the subject will recognize it as a conspicuous failure.” –Henry Morton, President of the Stevens Institute of Technology, on Edison’s light bulb, 1880
“The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad.” –The President of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903.
“Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible.” –Simon Newcomb; The Wright Brothers flew at Kittyhawk 18 months later
“Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You’re crazy.” –Associates of Edwin L. Drake mocking his idea to drill for oil, 1859.
“How, sir, would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you, excuse me, I have not the time to listen to such nonsense.” –Napoleon Bonaparte, when told of Robert Fulton’s steamboat plans, 1800s
“Very interesting Whittle, my boy, but it will never work.” –Cambridge Aeronautics Professor, when shown Frank Whittle’s plan for the jet engine.
And one of my all time favorites
“To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth – all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances.”
–Lee DeForest, Inventor of the vacuum tube, 1926.
Excellent Post. And very true..
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Maybe we're closer to the answer than we know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggzl8z9Csho
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A theory is used as the basis of calculations and the making/building of stuff. You're mixing it up with the word 'hypothesis'.
A hypothesis is unproven, but a theory is taken as 'the truth' (until a better theory comes around). Gravity is just theory - but I don't see anyone floating off into the sky.
A theory DOES have to have evidence to support it, otherwise it is a hypothesis. What you state is incorrect.
Point was that theories are only abstract models. Not gospel. This inconclusiveness is fundamental to science's success.
Maybe we're closer to the answer than we know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggzl8z9Csho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s78wr0UF0
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Maybe we're closer to the answer than we know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggzl8z9Csho
And a close up of that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lpc-2CH1lg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lpc-2CH1lg)
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And a close up of that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lpc-2CH1lg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lpc-2CH1lg)
:rofl
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Point was that theories are only abstract models. Not gospel. This inconclusiveness is fundamental to science's success.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s78wr0UF0
If history has taught us nothing else. It has taught us to never pay too much attention to naysayers. :neener:
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:lol
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Point was that theories are only abstract models. Not gospel. This inconclusiveness is fundamental to science's success.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s78wr0UF0
All thought is abstract. Show me a model that isn't abstract.
It's the testability of a theory that shows it to be 'the current known truth'. Show us something else that works better than a theory that isn't 'just a theory'.
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All thought is abstract. Show me a model that isn't abstract.
It's the testability of a theory that shows it to be 'the current known truth'. Show us something else that works better than a theory that isn't 'just a theory'.
Ahh, I had no idea they had tested black holes, dark matter and how large objects bend gravity. My bad :neener:
A lot of his stuff does not work unless you add "constants". In other words, manipulate the results of the formulas to match what we think the answer should have been.
In any case, these arguments are pointless. We don;t have supersonic passenger planes anymore but we think we will be traveling to other planets or at the speed of light soon? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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All thought is abstract. Show me a model that isn't abstract.
It's the testability of a theory that shows it to be 'the current known truth'. Show us something else that works better than a theory that isn't 'just a theory'.
Not the point
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one word, Einstein, ..nothing is faster the light, nothing. And physics never changed the last few years.
Read some books from Brian greene (theoretical physicist and one of the best-known string theorists around).
With one known exception. Space itself. Space is expanding and is not constrained by that law. Space can in fact expand faster than the speed of light.
How weird is that? :O
I got that from:
The Hidden Reality: Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos
Brian Greene
Wab
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With one known exception. Space itself. Space is expanding and is not constrained by that law. Space can in fact expand faster than the speed of light.
Exactly - nothing can travel faster than light through space - but space itself easily expands faster than light.
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Exactly - nothing can travel faster than light through space - but space itself easily expands faster than light.
Well then Duh!
We just need to learn to expand and contract space. Then we get in a ship and contract a bubble of space in front of us and expand a bubble of space behind us both faster than the speed of light. Zoom. Off we go. The bubble of space we are actually in just rides the wave but otherwise is unaffected. Avoids all those nasty stretching effects of approaching the speed of light. And since WE won't be traveling faster than the speed of light, just the space expanding/contract in front and behind us, we probably avoid the time dilation too.
Maybe this is how the LA7 works?
:noid,
Wab
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Martyn - Plazus' post read like its point was
Some people put too much faith in theories.
because they forget the total implications of
(until a better theory comes around)
instead only going by:
a theory is taken as 'the truth'
which is dogma. A theory, no matter how positively tried and tested, is never enough to allow more than the conclusion: This theory is consistent with that data.
We just need to learn to expand and contract space. Then we get in a ship and contract a bubble of space in front of us and expand a bubble of space behind us both faster than the speed of light. Zoom. Off we go. The bubble of space we are actually in just rides the wave but otherwise is unaffected. Avoids all those nasty stretching effects of approaching the speed of light. And since WE won't be traveling faster than the speed of light, just the space expanding/contract in front and behind us, we probably avoid the time dilation too.
Maybe this is how the LA7 works?
La7 with Alcubierre perk loadout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive)
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La7 with Alcubierre perk loadout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive)
See. That always happens to me. I invent something except someone else invents it first.
Internet? Yeah, me. Damn you Al Gore!
:furious,
Wab
(OK moot, I have a question you might could help me with but I'll put in another thread.)
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We just need to learn to expand and contract space. Then we get in a ship and contract a bubble of space in front of us and expand a bubble of space behind us both faster than the speed of light. Zoom. Off we go. The bubble of space we are actually in just rides the wave but otherwise is unaffected. Avoids all those nasty stretching effects of approaching the speed of light. And since WE won't be traveling faster than the speed of light, just the space expanding/contract in front and behind us, we probably avoid the time dilation too.
Maybe this is how the LA7 works?
:noid,
Wab
- yeah, or follow Wittens M-theory and jump through the multiverse of branes until you find a universe where the La's six is just in front of you.
Is that how the cable pullers do it?
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I have a question
Shoot. No guarantees :)
- yeah, or follow Wittens M-theory and jump through the multiverse of branes until you find a universe where the La's six is just in front of you.
Is that how the cable pullers do it?
:lol
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BTW, when you guys figure out how to travel at those speeds, you better invent some kind of very long long long range radar to detect particles in your way or be able to clear a path pretty good, or a collision with some dust particles could cause a little problem :rofl
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We'll just yank the joystick really hard.
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We'll just yank the joystick really hard.
No workie. Your signal from the stick will be traveling slower than your flying disk. Better find a new way of controlling it. And that flip communicator will only be able to send messages to the guys in the back of the disk. If you are doing anything close to the speed of light, the response from the back may take years to reach the front. If you are faster, you will never get the message that said the dylithium crystals where over heating :old:
As you can see, bending space is the better solution. We should be able to do it in the next decade or two :neener:
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Ahem
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BTW, when you guys figure out how to travel at those speeds, you better invent some kind of very long long long range radar to detect particles in your way or be able to clear a path pretty good, or a collision with some dust particles could cause a little problem :rofl
No way. We're moving so fast we have quantum lag!
The dust particle would vaporize and we'd never get the collision packet. :airplane:
The particle would then get on God's BBS and raise Hell!
:t,
Wab