Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: A8TOOL on February 10, 2011, 08:22:40 PM
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Watch the whole series
Highly Recommended --> to Watch his whole set and then practice them on or offline.
Copy and paste his vids here and talk about them. Which work for you?
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One of my favorites. Learn this maneuver and you will kill your enemies repeatedly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guVMVY2C6mM&feature=related
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They Do a good job showing visually how to perform these moves.
When I learned the little secret of the barrel roll my acm changed dramatically.
Good post.
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I always find it (ACM threads/ACM books/videos) interesting because I never really learned these "moves" from book or video. I just discovered them after a LOT of fighting/dueling. Now when I look back at a lot of these maneuvers I say to myself, "Oh I know that and use that (ACM, maneuver etc) all the time but just never knew the name of it." I would propose that learning these ACM's or maneuvers from book/video is not necessary, but may be useful for some.
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Yep I found the Rise Of Flight training videos a month or two back and I found them very helpful. To bad that game is not an on line game like AH. The modeling of there planes is very good and don't all fly the same speed like our WWI arena.
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The aircraft in the WW1 arena fly at the correct speed and they do not all fly at the same speed. If you wish to disagree please post your data.
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Yep I found the Rise Of Flight training videos a month or two back and I found them very helpful. To bad that game is not an on line game like AH. The modeling of there planes is very good and don't all fly the same speed like our WWI arena.
I'm quite certain there is multiplayer. At least cooperative missions. Watch more of his videos, he's got some that he's recorded while playing online.
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The planes in AH WWI arena fly to fast in the case of the DR.1 and the Sopwith camel while the D.VII is a dog in AH. Look at Rise of Flight modeling and you will see a more correct speed variations along with some very good training films but it is not an on line game that I saw. If you look at a few sources you will see speeds a few mph difference but these speeds seem the in the middle.
1 D.VII speed 120 mph with a dive speed of 165mph with the 160hp Mercedes D.III engine
2 DR.1 speed 95 mph with a dive speed of 140mph with the 110hp Oberursel UR.11 engine.
3 Sopwith camel 113mph is the top speed. I saw no dive speed information.
The above information came from a French flight report from 1918 sited in another post and Janes Aircraft of WWI and German War Birds by K.Munson.
This is all a mute point anyway as I do not think HTC will spend more time and resources on the WWI arena with so few players. It is to bad as I was hoping the WWI Arena would be a success. It is just a gunnery range for the DR.1s as it is now.
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According to this source the DR1 max speed is 103 and the Camel is 105.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-468/app-a.htm
I expect that there was some variation between individual aircraft of the same model in that period.
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The planes in AH WWI arena fly to fast in the case of the DR.1 and the Sopwith camel while the D.VII is a dog in AH. Look at Rise of Flight modeling and you will see a more correct speed variations along with some very good training films but it is not an on line game that I saw.
who's to say which WWI Flight Game is more accurate than the other without some authorative people doing a comparison and testing/recording and comparing the proper data of each WWI Game...... which does it really matter? who's to say ROF got the modeling right? who's to say AH-WWI got the modeling right..... although I would put my money on the HTC team every time verses any other Flight Sim Team/Company......
If you look at a few sources you will see speeds a few mph difference but these speeds seem the in the middle.
1 D.VII speed 120 mph with a dive speed of 165mph with the 160hp Mercedes D.III engine
2 DR.1 speed 95 mph with a dive speed of 140mph with the 110hp Oberursel UR.11 engine.
3 Sopwith camel 113mph is the top speed. I saw no dive speed information.
The above information came from a French flight report from 1918 sited in another post and Janes Aircraft of WWI and German War Birds by K.Munson.
would you mind posting a link to any sources you are getting your facts/data from, unless it is a book, like above the book names/authors is sufficient.....but 99% of the people will have no way of knowing what it might say in a book, but scanned/pdf'ed reports are very welcomed....
This is all a mute point anyway as I do not think HTC will spend more time and resources on the WWI arena with so few players. It is to bad as I was hoping the WWI Arena would be a success. It is just a gunnery range for the DR.1s as it is now.
if you want to know what HTC's reasoning for the WWI arena's & WWI Era planes then you can find it all here on these boards...... I do not think HTC will give up on the WWI Arena/planes... that part of the game exists for alot more reasons than just a "bb shoot out" contest against motorized flying kites :)
:cheers: TC
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R105 note that the French report you cite gives the same speeds of 103 and 105 mph for the DR1 and Camel at the same altitudes as the report I linked. Also that the French report notes higher speeds at unspecified altitudes which are likely near the ground.
I don't know what your point is about the dive speeds. I assume those are probably recommended safe dive speeds and not the speeds at which they break up. I don't see anything you've posted that shows a problem with the AH flight models.
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Don't think this thread was exactly meant to discuss which game model is more accurate. The explanations of the maneuvers on how to preform them and the names given is key.
it's true...many people learn all these maneuvers over time never knowing they even preform them. Some take practice to master and some you just need to have them in your minds eye as you preform them. IMO, i believe I would have advanced a lot faster if i had them to follow.
Good luck and have fun out there setting up and shooting at cartoon planes :)
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Just wanted to chime in to say that I found these vids very useful when practicing basic maneuvers offline, and they are great now that I'm starting to work on the more advanced techniques described, and putting them to use while fighting in the MA
Some of the things (barrel roll attack in the OP for example) seem so obvious when you watch them performed in the vid, but never would have occurred to me otherwise
:aok
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I wish HTC had flight instruction videos like The Rise of Flight has for both WWI & WWII aircraft. As for dive speed that is the top speed you can do without falling apart. The D.VII should have a 30 to 40mph speed advantage over the DR.1 but don't. All the D.VII and the other two birds are is gunnery drones for the DR.1. That is the number one reason I don't fly in WWI anymore all the planes fly about the same speed and the D.VII seams to lose its wings in AH overly easy while I can find no historic record of the problem.
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R105 It's possible to shoot a DR1 down with a DVII. Also the DVII dives faster than the DR1. I don't know why you post factual errors which are so easy to test for yourself.
Dive speed isn't the same as the never exceed speed which causes parts to fall off of your aircraft.
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I'm quite certain there is multiplayer. At least cooperative missions. Watch more of his videos, he's got some that he's recorded while playing online.
Yep, it's got multiplayer co-op missions, multiplayer CTF and dogfighting.
ack-ack
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FSL what are you talking about? What don't you understand about diving away from the DR.1 in the D.VII. If you can fly 30 to 40mph fast in the D.VII. Then you will get separation the DR.1 can't over come. The DR.1 is 10 to 12 mph slower to start with in the real world. That was the advantage the D.VII had over allied planes in the summer of 1917 it was able to dive away from a fight and regain advantage. The D.VII was such a good aircraft the Dutch built it into the 1920s and I think the Swiss did also.
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I was referring to your statements that the WW1 aircraft all fly the same speed and that the DVII cannot dive faster than the DR1. Both are incorrect and you can easily find that out for yourself by flying them. In WW1 fighters flew higher than they do in the WW1 arena. The fights in the WW1 arena favor the DR1 design.
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I am taking about in the AH WWI arena that all planes seem to fly the same speed not in the real war. If they didn't fly the same speed or more correctly fly faster then they did. Then I could dive away from the DR.1 and get separation. The DR.1 could not keep up with the D.VIIs speed.
Then I could regain advantage for a new merge. As it is now you can't use speed to do this because the DR.1 is just about as fast As the D.VII is in our WWI arena and it just runs you down. So it is ether fly the DR.1 or be a gunner drone for it.
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Don't forget about the acceleration abilitys of these WWI aircraft...... just because a plane may be 30 or 40 mph faster "at top speed"......means only that..it is faster at top speed.....
while dogfighting in these WWI era planes, once one wants to disengage and extend, gaining acceleration is going to take a bit of time ( time here is thought of in seconds )...... so you are in the D.VII. and you are wanting to break off and extend from a Dr1..... well that DR1 is a heck of a turner, and gets around the turn circle quiet quickly, and will be able to continue pinging you while you are accelerating to get out of guns range......
now if you are diving away to extend you will gain a little bit more quickly, but it still is gonna take a few seconds to be able to pull out of guns range of the DR1 until your D.VII reaches its top speed
edit: and I totally agree with FLS's statement about in Real Life these battles of the 2 planes took place at significant higher altitudes, verses the on the deck fights or under 3K or 4K alt fights we see in the WWI Era Arena...... so the fights in the WWI arena need to be compared to flight/fight reports of these 2 aircraft in Real Life that took place at the same altitudes of on the deck or under 3k/4k to have a more correct comparison to RL......
hope this helps
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R105 I know you were referring to the WW1 fighters in Aces High. I wasn't suggesting that you test fly real WW1 fighters. If you test the speeds of the Aces High WW1 fighters you will see that the DR1 and DVII have different top speeds and if you test their dive speeds you will see that the DVII can dive faster than the DR1. You can also look at the Aces High performance charts for the aircraft to compare their speeds but that won't show their dive speeds. Because the fights in Aces High are close to the ground you don't have as much altitude to use to dive away so that tactic is less useful in the arena.
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ROPE A DOPE...easier on people w/o to much experience but works quite often.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQWyrOSB6uw
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I do like these RoF training videos they are very well explained and I wish our AH planes flew like that. I can never get that kind of separation and advantage and it seems Once you merge the other guy is glued to you.
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R105 have you tried training? For that matter have you tried Rise of Flight and actually compared the flight models?
Why don't you join me in the training arena some time and we'll see if the DVII has any options against a DR1.
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Yes I have tried the Rise of Flight but is was not an on line game that I tried. Go check it out for yourself the planes there fly with correct speed and clime advantages the planes enjoyed in WWI over each other. It also seemed I could clime higher in there than AH. I tried Fly Boys in the past and didn't care for it at all. It was said to be an on line game but most of what you engaged in there were drones.
I have logged 100s of hours in a fabric covered tail dragger over the last 40 years. Mostly in the Taylorcraft BL-65 so I got a pretty good understanding of how slow light weight aircraft preforms. As far as HTC goes I have yet to find a game on line or other wise that has the game play of AH or I would be playing it. While I can find other games with some points I like better, over all Aces High is far and away the best game I have played.
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I only have a few hours in a Tiger Moth but I don't think any other flight sim compares to the AH flight modeling.
I'm sure you know that there's more to flight modeling than speed and climb rate. In any case you haven't shown that any speeds or climb rates in Aces High are incorrect. You may prefer the choices they made in Rise of Flight but there doesn't seem to be much actual data available.
As I said before, I'll be happy to fly a DVII against your DR1. I don't think it's as one sided as you believe.
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LIFT VECTOR..Very Important.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5FPr9issOQ&feature=related
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:furious
The thread was Hi Jacked by WW1 flight speed talk.
I'd like to get back to maneuvers. :bolt:
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:furious
The thread was Hi Jacked by WW1 flight speed talk.
I'd like to get back to maneuvers. :bolt:
Feel free to post your question. We're here to help.
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Actually A8TOOL, this is an excellent find. The videos are absolutely wonderful.
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Feel free to post your question. We're here to help.
OK....How do I make my airshow smoke travel in opposite direction ....don't say photo shop or gimp edit ;) heheheh
BLOOM, hope they can help people. All it takes is an interest in how it's done and it all comes together. Doesn't matter that they are WWl aircraft....same principles and they're explained well.
EDIT: Learning maneuvers ...along with a few other things, helped me go from 200 kills a month to over 500 back in the day
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the reason the D7 cannot easily out accelerate a DrI to saftey is because the bullets travel alot faster than the DrI that is shooting you
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Id say rope a dope, take a TA-152 up n get useda the beautiful plane n rope sum dopes :aok
cant quite explain in detail. :P
<S> greens
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OK....How do I make my airshow smoke travel in opposite direction ....don't say photo shop or gimp edit ;) heheheh
It's a stall induced spin while maintaining forward momentum. It's like Richard Candelaria's P-51 spin that was shown on Dogfights. I call it the Lepape maneuver because he popularized it with his Hunt or Prey video. :joystick:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Groc6jWDJyQ <<<<<<Pitchback manuver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQRn7aqFaLQ&feature=related <<<<Chandelles