Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Getback on February 14, 2011, 07:01:27 AM
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Just curious.
I've been in some fights with some very good pilots who had bigger guns than I and a chance to HO and yet refused. At that point I know I'm in trouble or in for a tough fight. I rarely go for the HO. Then and only then it's a weak armored plane like a tbm. Even that can get you a pilot wound. I don't even do it on buffs. You get some great shot and you're toast.
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Nope. Try not to do it at all.
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LOL , what kind of question is that ? Seem's like that's all they do in the DA .
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I congratulate those who hit me with a HO. Heck I do that more than I get to salute someone for a good fight!
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LOL , what kind of question is that ? Seem's like that's all they do in the DA .
Welp the story. I turned to fight a p51, he ho'd and ran. Next a g14, same thing. Then last night an LA7 came at me. I tried to avoid the HO but he got a wing tip. This was after a good fight with some of his buds.
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Well I only HO when I have substantially greater firepower. One example is when I was driving a 110 and an enemy Corsair ahead of me was coming about. He handed me an easy head-on kill and turned into a fireball. I dedicated a line in the buffer to making fun of him on our private channel. But if I was boasting or bragging about a HO I wouldn't admit it. :o
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Yeah , that's why I started flying the C-Hog in the DA .
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no ho from me. . . but then again i tend to be in planes with poor ammo for hos.
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if its a spit/tempy in the DA then yes. (especially the 16)
or if the person is attempting to HO me but spraying all over the place,and a quick burst from my guns put him down.
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the only planes I HO are 262s and buffs.
(thought my history of AH a 262 never won a HO)
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the only planes I HO are 262s and buffs.
(thought my history of AH a 262 never won a HO)
speaking of which, what type of buffs do you HO?
ive never understood why someone would want to attack the front of a heavy buff. its usually where the most guns are on the gun platform (the b17's 4 .50 cals in the nose+drones=12 .50cals on target plus top =18 .50 cals on target.)
in the DA charger allways tries to HO my b17s with a 110 and usually loses a wing in the process.
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Usually, I'l send something like, "Understand that you've just been pwn'd. You need to work more on your flying skills. I'm a veteran stick and am excellent in both critical pieces of combat flight: aiming my nose AND firing. Better luck next time, noob."
Actually, after experimenting around with it my first year, I decided that I'm usually better off getting separation and putting the lift victor on the bandit. My gunnery's just not that good and my best chance is in not offering a shot, even if it means I get one. I'd make an exception if I were in an A-8 or 110g or something.
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Boast? No.
Smile? Yes!
Giggle? Yes!
Laugh? Yes!
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i do my best to avoid giving or taking the shot...if the other person starts firing and it's an obvious nose to nose ho...i'll do everything i can to ram the tard
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Just say NO to HO :aok
JUGgler
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i do my best to avoid giving or taking the shot...if the other person starts firing and it's an obvious nose to nose ho...i'll do everything i can to ram the tard
careful saying that...
awhile ago i posted a thread stating i use to fly jugs so i could ram all the HOing spit 16 dweebs in the DA
and proceded to get mauled by a 3 page long outcry of how there is "no raming in AH! the system doesnt register it!"
:uhoh
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Just say NO to HO :aok
JUGgler
I sold a ho to buy some blo. I takes the dough from the ho to gets the blo. I gets to the blo sto and the blo ho takes ma' dough. Now I ain'ts got no ho, no blo, and no dough. Life be a mofo, dass fo sho.
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I die fairly often to HO shots... I don't pick up on it soon enough. At any rate, I never take the opportunity when it arises, as it's akin to Russian Roulette more than dogfighting, and if you get a kill that way, what have you accomplished?
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I hardly ever take anything more than a ping on a HO shot.
It takes two to HO... Just assume that everyone is going to HO you, avoid the HO and make the shot difficult for them, then start your next move.
To be honest, I find that the real dorks who go for broke on the HO end up bleeding speed and flopping about like fish out of water trying to get their guns on me while I'm setting up my turn to come back around on them.
Then it's all downhill for them...... If only I could shoot straight, everything would be dandy. Hahaha.
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I hardly ever take anything more than a ping on a HO shot.
It takes two to HO... Just assume that everyone is going to HO you, avoid the HO and make the shot difficult for them, then start your next move.
To be honest, I find that the real dorks who go for broke on the HO end up bleeding speed and flopping about like fish out of water trying to get their guns on me while I'm setting up my turn to come back around on them.
Then it's all downhill for them...... If only I could shoot straight, everything would be dandy. Hahaha.
Possibly the most overused false statement in AH. Any "good stick" with good timing can "rudder kick" the HO shot, Most choose not to but my no means all! :(
JUGgler
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I always try an avoid a HO especially when I'm in a Zeke and the other plane has 4 cannons (lol). Anyway, I never blame my opponent for a HO. As far as I'm concerned it's my job to get out of the way.
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Possibly the most overused false statement in AH. Any "good stick" with good timing can "rudder kick" the HO shot, Most choose not to but my no means all! :(
JUGgler
That's the key though, isn't it?
I didn't mean to throw around a cliche, but it's true... If you approach a front-quarter to front-quarter merge with the idea of avoiding a HO guns solution in mind, 9 times out of 10, you'll get away without a ping.
The people with the skill to really put in that hard-hitting shot on a HO pass (in my experience, at least) tend not to take them and enjoy the challenge of a good fight.
I don't think 'two to tango' is false... it's definitely overused though.
If you're doing what I do to avoid a HO, it'll take more than kicking the rudder to land hits.
That's not to say that I'm good or anything... I'm rubbish.. but I don't seem to really have much trouble with HOs.
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Anyway, I never blame my opponent for a HO. As far as I'm concerned it's my job to get out of the way.
I'm right with you on that one.
I get disappointed that other people don't like to play the way that I enjoy... but it's a game and people like different things, don't they?
I'd sooner lose a tense fight than win a crappy merge through spraying a hail of bullets, but that's me and some people just like to win. Whatever. :cheers:
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Whenever I want a good fight, I won't HO. But if the person who wants to ho me does and misses, he better be ready for some 20mm righ in his cockpit fom my P-38 :t
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That's the key though, isn't it?
I didn't mean to throw around a cliche, but it's true... If you approach a front-quarter to front-quarter merge with the idea of avoiding a HO guns solution in mind, 9 times out of 10, you'll get away without a ping.
The people with the skill to really put in that hard-hitting shot on a HO pass (in my experience, at least) tend not to take them and enjoy the challenge of a good fight.
I don't think 'two to tango' is false... it's definitely overused though.
If you're doing what I do to avoid a HO, it'll take more than kicking the rudder to land hits.
That's not to say that I'm good or anything... I'm rubbish.. but I don't seem to really have much trouble with HOs.
True as it gets :)
The "good sticks" know just what it takes :)
JUGgler
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Just curious.
I've been in some fights with some very good pilots who had bigger guns than I and a chance to HO and yet refused. At that point I know I'm in trouble or in for a tough fight. I rarely go for the HO. Then and only then it's a weak armored plane like a tbm. Even that can get you a pilot wound. I don't even do it on buffs. You get some great shot and you're toast.
i try not to. i've mistaken the heading, and accidentally done it......in which case i do apologize to them. just the other night, i had a couple of great fights(which i lost) that i could've taken the ho shots......had at least 3 presented to me. i pushed away from that shot, and continued on. the guys i was fighting did the same.
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Most of the time I will not HO and do my best to avoid it. One of two exceptions is if my opponent HO me first then I have no issue with trying to gun them down if they try to HO again in the same fight. The other exception is when the odds are greater than 3v1 against me, and that's just because in that situation it seems that no matter where I turn I have some one trying to fly down my throat; guns blazing, trying to get the kill before any of their 3 buddies can.
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I never brag when I kill ANYONE. The kill alone, in the mind of the just killed cartoon, is all the message I need to send.
You know something, Its a guns game, a competitive guns game. As an avid firearms collector and sports shooter I enjoy shooting things. The people that put up this BS facade that one should NEVER fire on the HO is just that. BS
The idea is to NOT let the other guy get a shot on you....ANY shot.
They got guns on the planes in this silly cartoon game and if you give me a straight shot from my gun to your brain then I'm gonna take it.
I also know when I'm dealing with an amateur who thinks he is a pro by the way they fly towards me. Smart players rarely give anyone a head on shot so its never a problem with them. Its the dummies that think I shouldn't fire so being free as a butterfly they dance in front of me at 100 yards out and when I blast em they are like "why ho"....... Im like shut up and die, re-up and learn to survive instead of whining like the kotex poster child your trainers taught you to be.
Ok, there I feel BETTER :x
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I don't boast about it but I do it only after I've been hoed trying for honest good merge. So if you get hoed by me blame your countrymen for doing it to me first. I know with this attitude its not going to change the game but I'm not here to change the game. I think the HO is here for good and It'll never go away. Of course if your in a fight outnumbered I expect it. It's hard not to take a shot when you have guys ganging up on ya. I never get upset with the one hoing when he is outnumbered or getting ganged really bad. I see its your fault for putting yourself in that situation.
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I try not to head on but it irritates me when I see someone doing a lead turn so early that I can see their tail number as they go by.
If I can read a tail number, I am taking the shot.
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I try not to head on but it irritates me when I see someone doing a lead turn so early that I can see their tail number as they go by.
If I can read a tail number, I am taking the shot.
That's not a HO, that's low deflection, hehe
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I try not to head on but it irritates me when I see someone doing a lead turn so early that I can see their tail number as they go by.
If I can read a tail number, I am taking the shot.
Yep, fly across my nose because you misjudged the timing of the lead turn on merge and I'll stitch the side of your plane from nose to tail with 20mm and .50s.
At least for me, HOs are pretty easy to avoid even from players that are intent on going for the head on shot. I just make sure to create sufficient seperation prior to the merge and 9 out of 10 times the guy is shooting at empty air. The only time I get hit by a HO is if I'm too slow to roll out of the way.
ack-ack
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I find there's a difference between the people that HO.
There are a good many that take front-quarter shots when merging, then trying to react to your merge, and then there are the those that simply aim right at you, playing 'chicken' with guns blazing. If they don't hit you with bullets, they'll hit you with their plane.
The latter is what I find annoying. :lol
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Just curious.
I've been in some fights with some very good pilots who had bigger guns than I and a chance to HO and yet refused. At that point I know I'm in trouble or in for a tough fight. I rarely go for the HO. Then and only then it's a weak armored plane like a tbm. Even that can get you a pilot wound. I don't even do it on buffs. You get some great shot and you're toast.
If some one takes the shot on a head on with me I'll return the favor and after they lose I may taunt them a little. Not really boasting but pointing out their poor decisions. As a rule of thumb I will not take the HO shot but I will do what Del and AKAK described if I don't know who it is. If I do know I won't take anything close to a head on just for the sake of a good fight. Or maybe I don't like you and then I will HO the snot out of you.
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I find there's a difference between the people that HO.
There are a good many that take front-quarter shots when merging, then trying to react to your merge, and then there are the those that simply aim right at you, playing 'chicken' with guns blazing. If they don't hit you with bullets, they'll hit you with their plane.
The latter is what I find annoying. :lol
i see a lot like this. it seems almost a common maneuver in the 109. they'll roll inverted, and try to take that high angle deflection shot.....if they miss, it's over though.......usually.
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speaking of which, what type of buffs do you HO?
ive never understood why someone would want to attack the front of a heavy buff. its usually where the most guns are on the gun platform (the b17's 4 .50 cals in the nose+drones=12 .50cals on target plus top =18 .50 cals on target.)
in the DA charger allways tries to HO my b17s with a 110 and usually loses a wing in the process.
If I have the time to climb above them and BnZ them than that's what's I'll do, but if the time is critical before they drop then I HO them.
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i see a lot like this. it seems almost a common maneuver in the 109. they'll roll inverted, and try to take that high angle deflection shot.....if they miss, it's over though.......usually.
Yeah, but that's not what I was thinking of in regards to a merge. That's an ACM the person is using to get that single 30mm burst on you (us in 38's).
I'm thinking of an actual merge, where you spot the icon, 3k, 4k, or 5k out, then start heading towards it. You could be trying to setup some angles after the initial pass, but the other guy will just barrel right into you.
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In a broad sense the HO shot defines the player.
1. The guy who logs on expecting a long, technical fight (that is where they get there enjoyment of the game), does not HO because it is (insert derogatory statement).
2. The guy who logs on, and just wants to kill other planes (that is where they get there enjoyment of the game) HOs because it is a fast way, although maybe low %, way of attacking.
I refuse to HO. Mostly because I think it is cheap. Do I get plowed often by the HO, sure. Do I care, not as much as I did last year when I quit looking at my KD. Whatever floats your boat. You just will never get a <S> from me for a HO, as if it means something to someone.
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You just will never get a <S> from me for a HO, as if it means something to someone.
If I had a scooby treat, I'd give it to you "ZOIKS" lol <S>
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speaking of which, what type of buffs do you HO?
ive never understood why someone would want to attack the front of a heavy buff. its usually where the most guns are on the gun platform (the b17's 4 .50 cals in the nose+drones=12 .50cals on target plus top =18 .50 cals on target.)
in the DA charger allways tries to HO my b17s with a 110 and usually loses a wing in the process.
DA is not the MA bro, people in there tend to well... suck.
The reason people will HO a B17 or B24 with that amount of guns is because it is much easier to land hits, and you are closing at almost twice the pace causing the pilot to have a harder time hitting multiple shots.
This goes without saying, if you HO there is about a 50 50 chance you will take damage. Lower quarter shots are much better than a full blown HO because they don't have as many turrets concentrated on you.
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Let me say this a HO is a legitimate tactic. I don't like it when it happens to me but so be it. I wouldn't want the game with out it.
What pains me is to see a squaddie HO unnecessarily. Okay he got the other guy too but now we're a man down and the other guy can get back into the fight sooner.
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Due to my choice of aircraft I almost always go for the HO, mainly because it's the only shot I'll get. And I try to never boast about, although I do like to yell out BOOM HO SHOT on the radio a lot. :D
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/B25CvsNIKI.png)
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I usually try and avoid the 'ho'. That's been broken down so much that I'm not sure anymore what is even considered a 'ho'. I will fly straight at my enemy though and won't fire (been shot down a lot for that). I just like the first pass to be a freebie, and after that, well it's on.
Coog.
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Cant say I dont "mind" the HO, but I expect it from 99.999999% of merges that I encounter.
You can sum up that guy just by the first merge and what his intent is. The guy that starts spraying at 1.5k out will always be a free easy kill if you avoid the HO IF he desides to turn and duke it out.
IMO, what makes you taking the head on shot "acceptable" is when you are in a position that ACM is no longer a possible and the target is in your sights:
-Taking off from a runway and con is skirting the runway for vulches
- The low/slow turn fights or higher alt fights that its borderline stall rendering moving out of the way virtually impossible
As a general rule, you always want to avoid his guns even in first merge so I try to avoid it as I almost never win the head on shots.
Do I boast about it? NO! The other guy at the end of his joystick is more likely to laugh at you if you try for the easy shot. The HO guys are a dime a dozen. The guy that takes the time to out manuever/skill me damages my cartoon ego tens times more.
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Cant say I dont "mind" the HO, but I expect it from 99.999999% of merges that I encounter.
You can sum up that guy just by the first merge and what his intent is. The guy that starts spraying at 1.5k out will always be a free easy kill if you avoid the HO IF he desides to turn and duke it out.
IMO, what makes you taking the head on shot "acceptable" is when you are in a position that ACM is no longer a possible and the target is in your sights:
-Taking off from a runway and con is skirting the runway for vulches
- The low/slow turn fights or higher alt fights that its borderline stall rendering moving out of the way virtually impossible
As a general rule, you always want to avoid his guns even in first merge so I try to avoid it as I almost never win the head on shots.
Do I boast about it? NO! The other guy at the end of his joystick is more likely to laugh at you if you try for the easy shot. The HO guys are a dime a dozen. The guy that takes the time to out manuever/skill me damages my cartoon ego tens times more.
I got a film where I'm going to get a screen shot of a guy flying on the deck with his gear down. I'm going to title it "How I pick my targets".
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DA is not the MA bro, people in there tend to well... suck.
The reason people will HO a B17 or B24 with that amount of guns is because it is much easier to land hits, and you are closing at almost twice the pace causing the pilot to have a harder time hitting multiple shots.
This goes without saying, if you HO there is about a 50 50 chance you will take damage. Lower quarter shots are much better than a full blown HO because they don't have as many turrets concentrated on you.
I will HO buff formations 100% of the time. Unless your 999000, most buff gunners dont fair well in the front guns. Being that buffs have no ACM and the fact that they have 3 lives compared to your 1, chances are the HO is a one time opppurtunity and only if Im really lucky do I get all 3.
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I got a film where I'm going to get a screen shot of a guy flying on the deck with his gear down. I'm going to title it "How I pick my targets".
One thing about this though is even though my SA is a step short of a 5 yo on riddlin, I find if you focus on the harder guys that have alt or tactical advantage, you will live alot longer
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I work to avoid the HO's. Sometimes, very few, I convince myself that it is unavoidable and I go for it. Normally after avoing the first 2 or 3 HO's he has tried. I am very good at the ho, probably win 90% of them, win beigh he dies and I land safely.
Everyone gets the same message from me after the died trying to HO me:
"<S> Live by the HO, die by the HO"
And that is as mean as I get. :cool:
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I boast when I ho. :devil
I boast even more when I run to ack and get a proxy kill. :devil
:rofl :rofl
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ALTHOUGH i generally tend to try to avoid them......i had a 110 in mw once.....i was in a zeek. all he kept trying to do was to ho me. on his 3rd pass, rather than dodging, i did the stupid thing, and ho'd back. i fully expected to lose. he lost. i think i did go on a little bit of a rant on 200. :bolt:
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I boast when I ho. :devil
I boast even more when I run to ack and get a proxy kill. :devil
:rofl :rofl
ack is your friend! Ack in a Task Group is your bestest friend.
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I try to avoid making HO shots but after playing the game for awhile, I end up opening up because of usually being the victim of someone else doing it. If i do it and they don't, I apologize to them about it.
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I love the HO when I'm in a B-25H... :x
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A front quarter shot is a badly timed ho.
Just remember this two simple rules and you will know who the hotards are.
Rule# 1: all players with a score below 500 by default only do front quarter shots. All players with score above 500 by default are hotards.
Rule# 2: when two players approach face to face, the first player to call the other a hotard by default is not a hotard.
Semp
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I love the HO when I'm in a B-25H... :x
I was trying to vulch Panda in a b25h one day. I missed and an la7 and p51 were on my tail. So I duck under the b25, almost a tragic mistake. Off to my right I saw 12 rounds hit the dirt...Krap! Then the cannon round hit a tad closer to my right.........Holy Krap krap krap krap! I got run downed by the la and p51 but it was amusing as all get out about the b25. I'll remember that.
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A front quarter shot is a badly timed ho.
Just remember this two simple rules and you will know who the hotards are.
Rule# 1: all players with a score below 500 by default only do front quarter shots. All players with score above 500 by default are hotards.
Rule# 2: when two players approach face to face, the first player to call the other a hotard by default is not a hotard.
Semp
^^^ this. QFT.
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"it was a deflection shot"
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A front quarter shot is a badly timed ho.
Just remember this two simple rules and you will know who the hotards are.
Rule# 1: all players with a score below 500 by default only do front quarter shots. All players with score above 500 by default are hotards.
Rule# 2: when two players approach face to face, the first player to call the other a hotard by default is not a hotard.
Semp
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl Dang me I need to speak up sooner.
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"it was a deflection shot"
Well, lets look at damage. If you lose a wing and catch a PW in a HO merge, is it really a HO? Or was the other dude good a timing that rudder kick. I would say, not engine damge, maybe PW, maybe loss of rudder etc.... no HO, deflection. Engine out, pilot dead plane in flames and you collided....probably a HO.
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Only if I win, then I announce on range, "lol that noob 12345678 tried to ho me and died". The rest of the time I alter my loadout with less fuel.
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A front quarter shot is a badly timed ho.
Just remember this two simple rules and you will know who the hotards are.
Rule# 1: all players with a score below 500 by default only do front quarter shots. All players with score above 500 by default are hotards.
Rule# 2: when two players approach face to face, the first player to call the other a hotard by default is not a hotard.
Semp
ok guys some of you doubted the rules above, here's the proof that the rules do exist and are followed by everybody.
Rule# 1: all players with a score below 500 by default only do front quarter shots. All players with score above 500 by default are hotards.
I am using hotdog here, not to put him on the spot, he's a pretty cool guy and an awesome player, from his point of view he saw a ho. but once you look at the film, it proves rule #1, check my score, it is below 500 and by default I only do a front quarter shot!!!!. rule #2 did not conflict with rule #1, he called me a hotard first, but picture proves that he's not a hotard and neither am I.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/notaho.png)
here he is calling me a hotard, but since my score is below 500. I cannot ho, all my shot's are front 1/4 shot, see picture above for proof.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/notaho2.png)
now here's proof for rule #2. notice in first picture how we both go for a front quarter shot. second picture has both of us coming straight at each other while first trying for a front quarter shot. 3rd picture has him blowing up with me not having a scratch. you can say that was a ho, and he did call me a ho'er. but he remembered rule #1 and backed off. since my score is below 500 I cannot ho. his score is below 500, he cannot ho. so neither of us are ho'ers. what other proof do you guys need?
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/notaho4.png)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/notaho6.png)
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr285/semperac/notaho7.png)
semp
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Do I boast? Nah. Do I think its wrong? Absoluetly not. For a long time I have listened to people berate the HO like it never happened in real life. Come on, get serious. I have read and watched just short of a million hours regarding WW2 aviation combat and its everywhere. If I'm in a 190 for example and a spit turns his nose to me he's gonna get it and i'm gonna keep on going. He'll call me less than honorable because I refused to let him kill me in a turn fight. He's dead and I'm alive and therein lies his whine.
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I doubt I die (or get a PW or engine kill or other crippling damage) even 10% of the time HOing a formation of buffs, especially Lancs. I can usually at least cripple one, and it may be the only shot I get before they drop on my field or CV. Of course you can't come straight in. And if it's a lone A20 or B25 it's idiotic to try to HO him, you know he's just waiting for it and if you do it you'll probably get what you deserve.
Whining because someone in a tougher plane with 2 or 3 times the firepower of yours HOs you is like whining that ponies and 190s won't turn fight your Brewster. If you're going to fly a plane with such a blatant disadvantage you can't blame people for taking advantage of it. Likewise if you're trying to vulch someone taking off and you're dumb enough to come in front of him and on the deck, yes, you are going to get a faceful of lead - what do you expect the guy to do, try to maneuver at 90 IAS and give you a free kill? OTOH if you're in a 190A8 or even a jug I'm going to avoid the HO if it is humanly possible. If I don't and get killed, I'm not going to whine about it, it was my fault for getting in front of a plane with that kind of firepower.
OTOOH sometimes I'll HO a C-hog or Tempest just out of spite, depsite the poor odds I have against all those cannons, especially if they have a big e advantage and are dumb enough to go for a HO anyway. If you're going to take a fancy perk ride like that and all you can do is HO in it, you deserve to lose the perks. Either you'll learn to use a little more finesse or you'll quickly run out of perks, either way I figure the community wins.
People in this game whine too much and boast too much.
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I am always amused when I have a perfectly legit full profile/front quarter and instead of maneuvering away from me, they continue to pull straight into me, making the shot even easier as their wings groan in disapproval as they try to get guns on for the last second Ho ram. Then they call me a ho tard from the tower. :rofl
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OTOOH sometimes I'll HO a C-hog or Tempest just out of spite, depsite the poor odds I have against all those cannons, especially if they have a big e advantage and are dumb enough to go for a HO anyway.
I prefer to reverse own them out of spite as I avoid their HO's, but that's just me. :aok