Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yarbles on March 09, 2011, 11:23:36 AM
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Actually at an indvidual level they never were but knocking them down should in my opinion yield more points than the towns and even small damage should have a small effect on a countries ability to fight.
In the latter case I can hear it now from the furballers whinge whinge whinge so it won't happen. TBH I have a high low and medium eny ride and would adapt if ord or fuel or troops or replacement ack or Radar were in shorter
supply what makes the game interesting is the dynamic chages the only constant is the moaning about every aspect from people who don't understand why they enjoy it.
In creating a reccuring pattern of behaviour a varying rate of reinforcement i.e. less predictable outcomes are most compelling than a constant. Who would gamble if you new you would win every third race and lose out miargianlly overall etc
So although it might not be popular it might still make the game more popular and compelling.
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I've been suggesting a strat system worth bombing for some time. I'd much rather see the heavy bombers hit strats than do nothing but plink hangers at airfields from 25k+. The problem is, the bombers hit the hangers because that is the only way they can effect game play.
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imo the moment you said the word "random" you doomed this idea. I support the goal though. What if instead of reinforcements being random they could just be intercepted? So that player actions can prolong the replenishing of targets? I see the convoys, the barges, and the trains but do they do anything?
EDIT: I just heard from a more experienced player that destroying convoys does in fact mess up the regeneration cycle of a given field. My mistake if he's correct.
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imo the moment you said the word "random" you doomed this idea. I support the goal though. What if instead of reinforcements being random they could just be intercepted? So that player actions can prolong the replenishing of targets? I see the convoys, the barges, and the trains but do they do anything?
I have changed it to varying and take your point it should be influenced by others game play hence not random in any way though the experience will be unpredictable.
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I have changed it to varying and take your point it should be influenced by otherw game play hence not random in any way though the experience will be inpredictable.
Yeah, I guess that's better. Like "If we're lucky it'll take up to an hour for the targets to completely regenerate, but if all goes well for them they can be up and running in 45 minutes". (Just throw-away numbers for an example)
What if these varying patterns were known by the players in the game? So that attacks would require more planning in advance to be the most effective, and enemy's movements might be more predictable? What if you could "attack at dawn" in Aces High?
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(http://www.flytampa.org/forum/download/file.php?id=2385&sid=20b0cd3f4d22ed5e14947f5af9297ede)
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I agree yarbles, I would even go as far as saying add more then one set of strats per country, at varrying distances from the front, make them each worth a certain percentage if they are destroyed, ie. AA is at 100%, there are 4 citys with AA factorys, each one of the sperate factorys are worth 25% of all AA and so on and so fourth for other things like troops dar and ammo
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I agree yarbles, I would even go as far as saying add more then one set of strats per country, at varrying distances from the front, make them each worth a certain percentage if they are destroyed, ie. AA is at 100%, there are 4 citys with AA factorys, each one of the sperate factorys are worth 25% of all AA and so on and so fourth for other things like troops dar and ammo
Or three strat cities. One at each front and a "jackpot" city to the rear. The ones at the front can be worth about 20% and the one at the rear can be about 60%.
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+1
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Actually at an indvidual level they never were but knocking them down should in my opinion yield more points than the towns and even small damage should have a small effect on a countries ability to fight.
In the latter case I can hear it now from the furballers whinge whinge whinge so it won't happen. TBH I have a high low and medium eny ride and would adapt if ord or fuel or troops or replacement ack or Radar were in shorter
supply what makes the game interesting is the dynamic chages the only constant is the moaning about every aspect from people who don't understand why they enjoy it.
In creating a reccuring pattern of behaviour a varying rate of reinforcement i.e. less predictable outcomes are most compelling than a constant. Who would gamble if you new you would win every third race and lose out miargianlly overall etc
So although it might not be popular it might still make the game more popular and compelling.
+1 :aok
It'd actually give bombers a purpose (aside from dropping hangers to avoid a fight). Bombing strats (factories and "war making machine") was a HUGE part of WW2 and even though this isn't a WW2 Sim it'd still be pretty cool to have. I think it might help game play as well
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yarbles, do you remember back when you were still in our squad the time we got everyone in bombers shut down strats for a whole zone on one of the big maps? (everything very close to 0%).. that basically kept everything down for the full 2 hours..
bring back the zone system!
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yarbles, do you remember back when you were still in our squad the time we got everyone in bombers shut down strats for a whole zone on one of the big maps? (everything very close to 0%).. that basically kept everything down for the full 2 hours..
bring back the zone system!
I was thinking the same thing. I remember fleets of goons making supply runs to HQ to get the dar back up after a raid from the other team. Zone bases were great because it gave a "target" that the enemy wanted and people would rally to defend.
of course the "war of attrition" due to no resupply is far to slow an action for most of todays players. Not when they can do the old "smash and grab"!
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Making the strats a more worthwhile target has been asked for since AH1. :joystick:
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Well, the strats are the hardest to hit targets, and have a very little influence on the actual gameplay.
+1
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Maybe I'm reading this thread wrong (yep I missed the short bus lol), is everyone saying it serves no purpose to bomb the strats?
<S>
Rokit
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Maybe I'm reading this thread wrong (yep I missed the short bus lol), is everyone saying it serves no purpose to bomb the strats?
<S>
Rokit
Correct, as of now they do not affect gameplay in almost any way.
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Correct, as of now they do not affect gameplay in almost any way.
WOW! Did not know this......I agree total BS! Here all this time I've been upping buffs to hit strats in effort to kill Dar, help slow down the bad guys. I agree, HiTech you REALLY need to address this. Give me the B29, for WHAT!!.......hanger banging.......I don't think so! Was considering upping 29's for strat killing, getting the whole squad involved!! But now that I know it will make no difference what so ever........WHY BOTHER!!! Not a happy camper!
BS!
<S>
Rokit
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Well, they do have some effect on the gameplay going on, but it is only considered minor if anything at all since it has no effect in relation to the current primary "smash and grab" or "furballing" play styles going on elsewhere on the map.
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+1 on the idea of making the strats matter...... could even bring in a low level straffing mission for the escorting fighters for when they get bored of no action. P-47s on the deck lighting up the trains and such, would make it more interesting and purposeful for sure.
<S> on this discussion.
Speak
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Correct, as of now they do not affect gameplay in almost any way.
Strats effect regeneration times of dar, ords, troops, and fuel porked at airbases. The city effects strat regeneration time.
Strats were never a goal as envisioned by HTC for game play (see above). They were easy to hit and fun to blow up. Almost no one said, "if I do this then this will happen."
Now strats are not easy to hit and you can get more points hitting easier things closer.
So, translation: It's Too Hard!! Again.
wrongway
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Strats effect regeneration times of dar, ords, troops, and fuel porked at airbases. The city effects strat regeneration time.
Strats were never a goal as envisioned by HTC for game play (see above). They were easy to hit and fun to blow up. Almost no one said, "if I do this then this will happen."
Now strats are not easy to hit and you can get more points hitting easier things closer.
So, translation: It's Too Hard!! Again.
wrongway
It has been stated by HTCs many times that the strats are to be a secondary objective to the main front-line action(s) going on in a map. They however have also expressed though that they should bear some notable relation and influence on a map and thus be considered more-valuable than-not to a country and its war effort(s).
I don't know if the point of this thread is a whine for them being too hard or for them wanting to see a measurable impact on gameplay. As it is there is no shortage of players willing to put in the effort to bomb strats, or players to put in the time and effort to defend them (which is no trivial task, taking a prop-fighter up to 30+k to intercept a buff), so I think the proof in the pudding is obvious that they aren't too hard and that players have been participating in attacking and defending the strats for arguabley a questionable reward.
That questionable reward, for those that have been overlooking it, has been a noticable impact to players egaged in combat or operations elsewhere on the map:
Furballing - long prolonged engagements between specific bases, going back and forth, with each one taking stabs at each other's bases and supporting facilities at the bases, there's always something not at 100% anyways. Those engaged locally in that furball are unaware of any difference between the fuel refinery getting leveled at the distantly-located strat and a single con "breaking through the line" with ord and bombing the local fuel storages on the airfield the fighting is taking place out of.
Organized Smash n Grabs - these people are looking for bases to grab where either fighting has died off or been non existent for a very long time. They are looking to avoid the bases engaged in fighting and take a base the defenders are currently not massed at (can't blame them, it's a smarter investment of their effort if they're determined to capture a base). These bases have typicaly been left to regenerate, absent of battle, for hours of not more. When you're looking to target a base that hasn't been beaten on in hours, and capture it in 15 minutes or less if possible, the strats have no noticable influence. If things are regenerating variabley at between 40 minutes or 20 minutes, and a base hasn't flashed in over two hours, of cource it's going ot be 100% up, the attackers don't even think about it - it's a given. As for the defenders, they may try to foil the base take and not loose it, but chances are that not one of them were spending the previous hour or two defending the strats so that facilities on the assaulted field can respawn quicker (and a shorter/smaller defence required to defend the base attempting to be captured)... or in other words, hoping they can put up enough of a defence for a furballing situation to develop, or the attackers to just give up. Again, to these participants in this situation, weather the strats are thriving or burning make absolutely no difference or noticable impact.
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Perhaps make strat-bombing affect that countries particular ENY
level for a short amount of time. If you think about it, you're
basically bombing the production facilities for the high-end aircraft,
meaning that the country would have to revert back to older AC
to compensate.
This would never work IMO, but imagine the fight it would bring
to the strats?
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+1 to this idea. Strats need to make a difference so that it makes sense to spend the time attacking and defending them.
Last nights massive B-29 strat raid was enjoyed by a great many players on all sides. Anything HTC does make that sort of massive mission a regular occurrence would be a definite plus to this game.
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+1 to this idea. Strats need to make a difference so that it makes sense to spend the time attacking and defending them.
Last nights massive B-29 strat raid was enjoyed by a great many players on all sides. Anything HTC does make that sort of massive mission a regular occurrence would be a definite plus to this game.
The HUGE problem with launching these kind of raids on a regular bases is getting people to join you. And by regular, I mean every few hours to once a day. Once we head into April, I don't know if there will be any more of these types of raids from Rooks at all.
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yarbles, do you remember back when you were still in our squad the time we got everyone in bombers shut down strats for a whole zone on one of the big maps? (everything very close to 0%).. that basically kept everything down for the full 2 hours..
bring back the zone system!
Happy days though I seem to remember even then it took 3 squads and my outstanding leadership skills to bring it off :old: :D :D
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+1 to this idea. Strats need to make a difference so that it makes sense to spend the time attacking and defending them.
Last nights massive B-29 strat raid was enjoyed by a great many players on all sides. Anything HTC does make that sort of massive mission a regular occurrence would be a definite plus to this game.
Yep mounting huge raids of this sort is only less fun than combating them and they bring both sides together for a memorable event. Appart from the Battle of Britain some of the most important air battle sof WW2 and most fun for us are of this sort. The US has a brilliant set of Strategic aircraft which time and again are used in tactical warfare.