Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Chilli on March 16, 2011, 07:21:23 AM
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I thought that I knew these things but apparently not.
Does ack on field stay down the same length of time as ack in town? Do supplies increase the time that ack stays down? Once troops have entered the maproom uninjured, and ack from the field (within the 1 mile radius) pops, but not the town ack, do those troops expire?
No film, and not a bug complaint but A9 on off hours LW arena was a bit wacky this morning. :headscratch:
Seriously folks, I have been frantically working to rebuild a system to replace my outdated and broken AH machine. I finally get back after months of drool at new animated troops and Grinder map, and find the base capture just as FRUSTRATING as ever. :rolleyes: '
In my absence, enough whines were recorded that HTC decided to try and up the town percentage 20% higher. To counter, they reduced the percentage of fields owned to win the war.
Why does it escape logic, that folks pay money to have fun. Winning the war, well yes that is fun. ;) But how do you get there? As much as I am excited about the new troops, I have only carried them once and only been on 2 capture attempts in the 5 days since my return. IMHO opinion, the pendulum has swung away from making the capture experience fun and challenging. Until, I have all the timing and information needed to narrowly beat one racing La7 on a suicide run to the last troop headed in the maproom, the maps can stay the same forever for all I care (what a waist of good programming).
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Ack and towns stay down 45 minutes and cannot be resupplied.
75% of town buildings and 100% of town ack needs to be down to capture.
One thing though, frequently some lone wolf noob bomber pilot will take out large sections of random towns and just keep on flying. Then when people are trying to capture the base suddenly huge sections of town pop and need to be destroyed again.
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In my absence, enough whines were recorded that HTC decided to try and up the town percentage 20% higher.
IMHO opinion, the pendulum has swung away from making the capture experience fun and challenging.
Does not compute. How does requiring more of the town to be down to take the base swing the pendulum away from making it more challenging? Maybe less fun for the steam-rolling horde, but not less challenging.
Why does it escape logic, that folks pay money to have fun. Winning the war, well yes that is fun. ;)
You know what opinions are like? In mine, "winning the war" is of zero concern, has zero "fun" value, and just like any other map reset ONLY serves to put a quick end to everyone else's fun.
Until, I have all the timing and information needed to narrowly beat one racing La7 on a suicide run to the last troop headed in the maproom, the maps can stay the same forever for all I care (what a waist of good programming).
Just say it, c'mon... just say it. You want everything to be easier. You want no defenders, and you want to be able to roll bases with the least resistance.
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Does not compute. How does requiring more of the town to be down to take the base swing the pendulum away from making it more challenging? Maybe less fun for the steam-rolling horde, but not less challenging.
in the old way a single set of b26's with 500 lbs could take almost enough buildings for a town to surrender. most buildings are in two clusters which are easy to destroy in one pass. with 80% of town you need to go after the single buildings which makes it a little more challenging. with the low % 3 of us took a base plenty of times, now it still can be done, but takes more than 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 goon.
semp
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in the old way a single set of b26's with 500 lbs could take almost enough buildings for a town to surrender. most buildings are in two clusters which are easy to destroy in one pass. with 80% of town you need to go after the single buildings which makes it a little more challenging. with the low % 3 of us took a base plenty of times, now it still can be done, but takes more than 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 goon.
semp
My question still stands. How does making the % higher swing the pedulum away from being more challenging?
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dbl post
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Ack and towns stay down 45 minutes and cannot be resupplied.
75% of town buildings and 100% of town ack needs to be down to capture.
One thing though, frequently some lone wolf noob bomber pilot will take out large sections of random towns and just keep on flying. Then when people are trying to capture the base suddenly huge sections of town pop and need to be destroyed again.
Actually u can resupply town and ack guns pop faster
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Does not compute. How does requiring more of the town to be down to take the base swing the pendulum away from making it more challenging? Maybe less fun for the steam-rolling horde, but not less challenging.
I was wondering the exact same thing ... :rolleyes:
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Just say it, c'mon... just say it. You want everything to be easier. You want no defenders, and you want to be able to roll bases with the least resistance.
Crawl out from under the Geico rock.
A good mission planner/leader can have all the hangars dead in less than 3 minutes...the town white flagged and deacked...guys standing by to kill gvs that got our early on and any gv's racing in from the spawn in less than another 3 minutes and troops running by T+8. All that and pickets ready to kill any plane incoming to screw up the take.
It's called taking bases with the highest level of sucess and it certainly isn't easy...especially when gv's come pouring out of the vh and planes start upping to defend the minute the base/town start blinking. If you wanna call it something else fine, that's your $15 bucks. For the planners/leaders and people who enjoy taking bases its THEIR $15 bucks.
Look down on them, call them names--whatever--it's still their $15 bucks.
I have never understood the mindset of those who complain/whine/look down on others simply because they refuse to play the game just like they do. :rolleyes:
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Crawl out from under the Geico rock.
..snip
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I have never understood the mindset of those who complain/whine/look down on others simply because they refuse to play the game just like they do. :rolleyes:
:yawn: Spare me, I could care less. You apparently missed the point so badly it's barely worth explaining, but never-the-less....
I was only pointing out 2 things:
1) his assertion that making the % of town required for a capture higher made the take "less challenging" didn't make any sense, and
2) his whine that HTC should change things to make them easier because people were :GASP: defending and foiling the take before troops could get in, and it was ruining his fun ... was laughable at best, and kinda sad.
I could care less whether you toolshedders drop all the hangers to keep a fight from starting (who wants combat in a combat simulator, after all :P), there are plenty of other places to fight.
I was only asking for a little honesty, quite frankly.
PS... and yes, I do look down on toolshedders and hordlings. :aok
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:yawn: Spare me, I could care less. You apparently missed the point so badly it's barely worth explaining, but never-the-less....
I was only pointing out 2 things:
1) his assertion that making the % of town required for a capture higher made the take "less challenging" didn't make any sense, and
2) his whine that HTC should change things to make them easier because people were :GASP: defending and foiling the take before troops could get in, and it was ruining his fun ... was laughable at best, and kinda sad.
I could care less whether you toolshedders drop all the hangers to keep a fight from starting (who wants combat in a combat simulator, after all :P), there are plenty of other places to fight.
I was only asking for a little honesty, quite frankly.
PS... and yes, I do look down on toolshedders and hordlings. :aok
Thank you for taking the time to prove my point.
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Thank you for taking the time to prove my point.
You had a very round-about way of trying to make the point that base-takers/toolshedders/horlings don't like a fight, if I proved anything for ya. :rolleyes:
I never said it wasn't your $15, their $15, or anyones $15 to not spend however they want to spend it in-game. You play how you want to play, more power to ya. Just don't come to the BBS and say things that don't make sense and whine because people are playing the way they want to play with their $15 by trying to stop you from getting your $15 worth your way. Make sense?
If you don't understand that, you're too dense to continue with.
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My question still stands. How does making the % higher swing the pedulum away from being more challenging?
i think you fell off the totem pole head first there cochise...try reading what chilli wrote a couple more times.
he said base capture is "just as FRUSTRATING as ever"...he hasn't been in game for a while so all this flag business is new to him...it's a matter of perspective...give him time, he will see.
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Here's what I know about base taking (HiTech, please correct me if I am wrong).
In order to take a base, its adjoining town must be 75% down (showing a white flag) and all of the town ack must be down. Also, if the town is close enough to the base in which its auto ack is in range of the troops, those auto acks that are in range must be taken down as well. Once this is all done, 10 troops entering the map room will take the base.
Now a couple things to consider:
**ALL ACK CAN BE RESUPPLIED. A box of supplies takes 15 minutes off of the time it stays down, just like for barracks, fuel, and ordnance. This also includes town ack!
**An auto ack does not actually have to shoot the troop to kill it. If a troop is within range of an auto ack, then it automatically dies. I don't know what that exact range is though, maybe HiTech can tell us.
**If enough buildings pop up while the troops are running to bring the town below 75% then the troops will not take the base.
I have seen a couple instances where the following scenario happened:
1> A town was brought to white flag conditions.
2> 10 troops were released.
3> An enemy LA dove on the troops killing three of them and then augured.
4> 7 troops went into the map room.
5> While bringing more troops in, buildings popped back up and it was no longer a white flag.
6> Those buildings were taken down, bringing it yet again to a white flag
7> 10 more troops were released. When the third troop entered the map room the base was taken.
This tells me that the 'troop count' in the map room doesn't automatically reset when buildings pop back up. I assume that the life of the troops are timed just like everything else and they will continue to play poker in the map room until either their time expires, ack pops (in which they are automatically killed), or until someone strafes or bombs the map room (or walks in and kills them with the handgun). I'd be curious to find out how long that life span is...
I have heard rumors that if friendly troops are dropped on a friendly town, then each friendly troop that enters the map room will cancel out one of the enemy troops that are in there. I have yet to verify this and doubt that it is true, but it might be cool to test...
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i think you fell off the totem pole head first there cochise...try reading what chilli wrote a couple more times.
he said base capture is "just as FRUSTRATING as ever"...he hasn't been in game for a while so all this flag business is new to him...it's a matter of perspective...give him time, he will see.
His exact quote:
IMHO opinion, the pendulum has swung away from making the capture experience fun and challenging.
You tell me what he's trying to say, Einstein. :lol
I know he said it was frustrating, if you read my initial response to his first point, I pointed out that he said two contradictory things.
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I have heard rumors that if friendly troops are dropped on a friendly town, then each friendly troop that enters the map room will cancel out one of the enemy troops that are in there. I have yet to verify this and doubt that it is true, but it might be cool to test...
I've heard this as well, and have seen friendlies bring a goon to town to drop troops into our own map room between waves of attackers for exactly that reason. I have no idea if it was actually effective or needed to be done, but I witnessed it. Kinda makes sense..... the map room has to go back to needing 10 troops to capture it somehow... although ack coming back up would take care of that as well.....
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Easy? Well, if you have 30 something in your squad, like compelling a HORDE to get anything accomplished, and oh yeah, are willing to HO anything that squirts from the "capped" base headed for the last troop skipping over bushes and house tops, carrying a big red flag above their head?
THEN YES, the pendulum has swung in a big way, in a direction that I DO NOT consider fun (period, end of sentence, rant over).
Thank you to those who posted answers to questions on what will foil captures. :salute
By the way challenging is when 3 or 4 individuals slip away from the huge dar, make a precision strike and slip troops into a maproom, defenders welcome. Boring is sitting in line over a "capped" base waiting for your turn to get a vulch assist, or flying a goon to the town to drop your troops and 5 others drop theirs on top of yours. :rolleyes:
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By the way challenging is when 3 or 4 individuals slip away from the huge dar, make a precision strike and slip troops into a maproom, defenders welcome. Boring is sitting in line over a "capped" base waiting for your turn to get a vulch assist, or flying a goon to the town to drop your troops and 5 others drop theirs on top of yours.
I agree with you 100% here. And pardon me if I was confused because you say above "defenders welcome" yet in the OP cry about the lone LA-7 foiling the capture.
I detest the horde and find it boring as well. The only thing worse than a horde is a toolshedding horde that drops the hangers to avoid any possible resistance. That being said, I like the new capture requirements a lot more than the way it used to be with the smaller town... to me it is a lot more challenging now than it used to be, and more challenging to me = more fun.
:salute
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[dengit you made me edit] :D
Getting a white flag up is not the problem, the problem is the time from the first building destroyed to the last, leaving a small window of opportunity to get troops to the maproom. Forget about the percentage, just let the town stay down longer then. Then me and my buddies (list is getting smaller the more I post :) ) could match the enemy hordes with multiple precision strikes. Their massive effort took 1 base but now they will have to defend 3 or 4 vulnerable bases. It is the only way that I see that hordes can be reigned in.
You are correct, most players aren't all that concerned whether or not a base changes hands. I look at the writing on the wall. If no one cares, then what is the point? Everyone will just fly to 35k feet and have it out in the skies, assuming it was a clear day. This is why I emphasize fun as an incentive.
I am glad that we can agree. :salute
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Getting a white flag up is not the problem, the problem is the time from the first building destroyed to the last, leaving a small window of opportunity to get troops to the maproom. Forget about the percentage, just let the town stay down longer then.
You appear to be running out of time before the town or the ack pops because you're towering out after getting it white flagged, then coming back in a goon/M3?
You need that guy there first, sitting just far enough away from the field to keep it from flashing. Then when he's needed you fire it up and roll right in. Time should be the last of your concerns.
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By the way challenging is when 3 or 4 individuals slip away from the huge dar, make a precision strike and slip troops into a maproom, defenders welcome. Boring is sitting in line over a "capped" base waiting for your turn to get a vulch assist, or flying a goon to the town to drop your troops and 5 others drop theirs on top of yours. :rolleyes:
Crawl out from under the Geico rock.
A good mission planner/leader can have all the hangars dead in less than 3 minutes...the town white flagged and deacked...guys standing by to kill gvs that got our early on and any gv's racing in from the spawn in less than another 3 minutes and troops running by T+8. All that and pickets ready to kill any plane incoming to screw up the take.
Maybe you're not doing it right. You need to plan better. ;)
It's called taking bases with the highest level of sucess and it certainly isn't easy...especially when gv's come pouring out of the vh and planes start upping to defend the minute the base/town start blinking.
Wait wait wait.
There's the problem. If you get any opposition then it's hard. :rofl
Seriously though. Trying to do what you describe Chilli is possible but one person upping at the right, err, I mean wrong time can ruin your whole day.
wrongway
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I would like to see your original question addressed by HT. The valid questions regarding truth vs. myth. It could be that the most fun derived is from not knowing but given the opportunity to understand could make the game more enjoyable by some.
We have all heard it, someone run troops to the maproom to reset, the ack guns popped in only 10 minutes, do the 17lbrs stay down same as the rest, can we resupply town ack?....Field Ack?, If a gun pops do the troops already in the maproom reset? When do they reset, how long do troops last? How far can they run?
Basically what is truth vs. rumor. I know what I believe and it differs even from others in the squad. I have downloaded the game guide and it is quite vague on some subjects and possibly intentinally so. Opinions??
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the manned ack is different than the auto ack. manned ack (37mm and 17 lb) is on same timer as a hangar.
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My question still stands. How does making the % higher swing the pedulum away from being more challenging?
well in your case your definition of challenging is irrelevant as nothing will make you happy. but for me a challenge is trying to sneak a base with only 1 buff, 1 fighter and 1 goon in one flight. if you can do it then i guess i was wrong about the % change making it more challenging.
semp
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well in your case your definition of challenging is irrelevant as nothing will make you happy.
Oh stop it with the melodrama, semp. You apparently still don't understand why I asked what I did, based on this:
but for me a challenge is trying to sneak a base with only 1 buff, 1 fighter and 1 goon in one flight. if you can do it then i guess i was wrong about the % change making it more challenging.
He said it made it less challenging, which didn't make sense. I agree with you, it is more challenging, and I'm 100% in agreement with you... that is how you take a base, NOT with the mega-horde that drops all hangers.
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You had a very round-about way of trying to make the point that base-takers/toolshedders/horlings don't like a fight, if I proved anything for ya. :rolleyes:
I never said it wasn't your $15, their $15, or anyones $15 to not spend however they want to spend it in-game. You play how you want to play, more power to ya. Just don't come to the BBS and say things that don't make sense and whine because people are playing the way they want to play with their $15 by trying to stop you from getting your $15 worth your way. Make sense?
If you don't understand that, you're too dense to continue with.
You proved jack.
I’ll try and make this even more simple.
Mission planners/leaders who want to take a base every (or as close to every) time sure as heck aren’t going to do it how you want. Not remotely. They are going to shut down the base, yes kill it, all hangars DEAD. They will also have in place plans to keep all air and ground cons away until the base is taken. They are there to take the base, not be cannon fodder for you. "Don't like a fight?" They are there to take a base and play THEIR game, not yours. Don’t like it? Then pork the front so they don’t have ords. Make the DA your new home, you will be far happier in there.
Please re-read that paragraph.
There are those who have posted on this forum for years whining, crying, belly-aching on how horrible it is that mission planners/leaders only want to “attack undefended bases” and are “avoiding fighting”. The simplest way to know those who post that have zero idea of what they are talking about is that if they had ever planned/executed base taking missions they would know exactly how ignorant those statements are. Solution?:
Reaper: do yourself a supreme favor (as well as anyone else who believes the “undefended bases/avoiding fights” falicy) over the next few days, plan, recruit, lead, and execute 30 separate base take missions in a Late War Arena to a base you personally deem “undefended”. When finished, come back here and please post your best of 30 record on base takes. Also, please include all details on just how “undefended” those bases actually were, and just how well you succeeded in avoiding fights. I, for one, cannot wait to see how well you fared and what your record turns out to be.
Want to know how I know you (and the others) won’t do it? Because it’s far easier to just get on the forums and belly-ache about something you don’t understand than it is to actually get into the game and really learn about what you pretend to know about already. Period.
Do you REALLY think that mission planners/leaders stop down before every launch and think, “oh geez, is this really how Reaper thinks I should do this?” Go get an alarm clock and set it for one minute from now. No, their going to go in, kill the hangars, de-ack and white flag the town and guys are going to get air and gv kills mopping up the area while troops are kicking dirt and the base turns green.
Go ahead and try and take bases how Chilli is saying, and good luck with that. Please tell me what that success to unsuccessful per attempt ratio is.
When it comes to sucessfully taking bases you can do it one of two ways. You can either go in and take out all the variables that could cause failure (not giving the enemy so much as one possibility to foil your take), or you can gamble. I prefer not to gamble, and most mission planners don’t either.
If I’m trying to take bases I’m going to execute it in a way that gives the enemy no chance of defending past the initial fights when the base starts blinking. I’m not even remotely interested in having to do it in some way you personally deem “fair”. Why? It’s my $15 flippin’ bucks.
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You proved jack.
I’ll try and make this even more simple.
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Why? It’s my $15 flippin’ bucks.
I've already said it's your $15, do with it whatever you want. Give it to Hitech, burn it, roll it up and shove it up your 6 o'clock! :rofl Do whatever you want with it, I couldn't care less!
If I’m trying to take bases I’m going to execute it in a way that gives the enemy no chance of defending past the initial fights when the base starts blinking
That right there was all I was saying..... you said it for me. You want to take the base, and keep defenders from starting a fight. How the EFF is that not the same as what I said?
For what it's worth, I'll pass on your "challenge" to waste a bunch of my time recruiting a horde to steamroll bases. NOT what I spend my $15 on.
You reserve the right to play however you want. I have the right to look down on it if I want to. I really don't care, though... the only time you toolsheddrs get my goat is when you come in at 30K with a half dozen formations of bombers and shut down a base where there's already a big fight going on, (like the bish did at the A8 to A9 fight Tues night) and ruin it for everyone else who's interested in fighting and not base grabbing. "Toolshedders" will get a lot more respect from "furballers" if they'd leave the good fights alone and go bomb elsewhere.
BTW, in LWOH we knits just took 4 bish bases, and didn't drop a single hanger at any of them, save for the VH of course, and even then those were up most of the time cause we had tanks and wirbles everywhere... we had great fights, and still took the bases.
So there, screw your theory. :neener:
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Reaper: do yourself a supreme favor (as well as anyone else who believes the “undefended bases/avoiding fights” falicy) over the next few days, plan, recruit, lead, and execute 30 separate base take missions in a Late War Arena to a base you personally deem “undefended”. When finished, come back here and please post your best of 30 record on base takes.
you think the "1, 2, 3 method" is some sort of genius mission profile? :rolleyes:
granted I have not been in one of your missions in years, but there really isn't anything special about getting 30 guys to suicide themselves on every hangar on a base. maybe you do it differently now. who knows.
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The only thing I know about is the c47. If you take troops be sure to bring music along as they will be dancing.
They prefer Uga Chaka (Can't Stop This Feeling)
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you think the "1, 2, 3 method" is some sort of genius mission profile? :rolleyes:
granted I have not been in one of your missions in years, but there really isn't anything special about getting 30 guys to suicide themselves on every hangar on a base. maybe you do it differently now. who knows.
Shhhhhhhhh you mind yourself, sir. You have NO IDEA how uber intelligent it takes a mission planner to be in order to orchestrate such an event...
Dropping hangers is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!!
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Okay, I used the words "fun" and "challenging". I did so because I read somewhere that was part of HTC's goals. I gave my definition of what I think challenging and "not fun" is.
Easy? Well, if you have 30 something in your squad, like compelling a HORDE to get anything accomplished, and oh yeah, are willing to HO anything that squirts from the "capped" base headed for the last troop skipping over bushes and house tops, carrying a big red flag above their head?
THEN YES, the pendulum has swung in a big way, in a direction that I DO NOT consider fun (period, end of sentence, rant over).
Thank you to those who posted answers to questions on what will foil captures. :salute
By the way challenging is when 3 or 4 individuals slip away from the huge dar, make a precision strike and slip troops into a maproom, defenders welcome. Boring is sitting in line over a "capped" base waiting for your turn to get a vulch assist, or flying a goon to the town to drop your troops and 5 others drop theirs on top of yours. :rolleyes:
Jekyll pointed back to the title and got me back on track, thank you. Not every attempt will go well, but from a planning stand point, one needs to know a great deal of information. From a defenders stand point, all they need to know, is when to come in and strafe the troop(s). So, please allow me to get all my information straight.
- When did the first object go down
- When will the first object pop
- Where can I hide my troops, so they may arrive in time
- How long will it take to get a town ready to accept troops
- How can I convince someone else to spend their $15 bucks into hiding/or bringing troops
:rofl Shuffler, I thought it was "Hooked on This Feeling" and yes music helps :rock
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So you're interested in foiling base takes? It's easy, just be that noob bomber pilot who wanders from base to base dropping the town centers.
Several times now we have lost captures because large segments of town buildings and ack have popped back up while we had troops in the air or goons over town.
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the rules for damage down times and supplies function are posted on the htc website. id recommend you read up there and not what you hear on the boards.
as far as trying to win the war...good luck. most follow squad leadership, fly solo, or dont care.
p.s. keep hope alive, someday a good leader will bring missions back to aces high. until then join the horde and dont get upset.
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(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/Reapers_Buddies.jpg)
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(http://www.entertainmentworlds.com/Reapers_Buddies.jpg)
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
Go drop some hangers somewhere, toolshedder. You'll feel better!
:aok
PS - you're sooooooo uber!
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i'm not even a furballer.. i'm a map watcher/defender which does not fit into the furballer vs. basetaker false dichotomy. I am weary of anyone in the main arenas who starts with "we need to....."
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Ack and towns stay down 45 minutes and cannot be resupplied.
75% of town buildings and 100% of town ack needs to be down to capture.
One thing though, frequently some lone wolf noob bomber pilot will take out large sections of random towns and just keep on flying. Then when people are trying to capture the base suddenly huge sections of town pop and need to be destroyed again.
Town ack can be resupplied. :aok