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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: RTHolmes on March 27, 2011, 05:46:52 AM

Title: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: RTHolmes on March 27, 2011, 05:46:52 AM
shouldnt be too much work to model since we dont have folding wings in AH, its basically our Seafire F Mk.IIc with shorter barrels and wing hardpoints. cant find much evidence of the use or not of clipped wingtips. LF makes sense because of its AH usage.

Seafire LF Mk.III
Merlin 55M 1,585 hp @ +18 lb/sq.in boost
1220 produced (F and LF)

2x Hispano Mk.V 120rpg, 4x .303

fuselage: 30gall/45gall slipper tanks, 500lb bomb
wing hardpoints: 2x 250lb bombs, 4x RP-3

(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/lf3.jpg)
(credit: williams/sterling as usual :))
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: EagleDNY on March 27, 2011, 03:28:38 PM
I think I'd rather see the Sea Hurricane first - isn't this really just a beefed up Seafire Mk.II? 

Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Bruv119 on March 27, 2011, 04:09:11 PM
I think I'd rather see the Sea Hurricane first - isn't this really just a beefed up Seafire Mk.II? 



have em both    :aok

+2
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: SgtPappy on March 27, 2011, 04:12:30 PM
It is, but it's got a different engine that no serving Spitfire/Seafire ever had. Also, the Seafire L.III (as it was more often called) was the most common Seafire ever built.

I very much would like the Seafire III as well, but I believe the planeset would benefit more from other planes first; namely the Ki-43 and Pe-2.

Oh btw Holmes, don't know if some L.III's did utilize clipped tips although the Seafire II (with a 4-blade prop) below shows that some Seafires did have clipped wings.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alemarinel/Spitfire/Seafire3.jpg)
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: RTHolmes on March 27, 2011, 04:58:31 PM
I suspect quite a few of the LFs had clipped wingtips but without the evidence I'm wary of requesting it. this can be a tough crowd ;)

I know it might be seen as a request for another late war monster; upgraded armament, better mud-moving capability and great low-alt performance, but its the most representative seafire and would be better able to compete with typical MA responses to carrier attacks. and it would be a quick and easy plane to add (although I forgot the hook would need modding too.)


edit: great pic btw, I couldnt find any good ones :aok

edit2: also an interesting addition as its the only spit of WWII to widely adopt the Mk.V hispanos.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 27, 2011, 05:16:11 PM
I don't want to say "-1" but I can't give it a "+1" either. We need a late war Seafire, but the one you offered has clipped wings. Clipped wings significantly reduce high altitude performance (that's why our spit16 sucks). I'm all for have a Seafire mk III with elliptical wings.
I also think that Seafire 3 will still lack power (compared for corsairs for example), so I highly recommend a Griffon powered Seafire (I have not decided which exact variant we need).
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: waystin2 on March 27, 2011, 05:50:35 PM
+1
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 27, 2011, 11:03:33 PM
LFIII with full span wings would be a nice addition.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: RTHolmes on March 28, 2011, 01:38:31 PM
I also think that Seafire 3 will still lack power (compared for corsairs for example), so I highly recommend a Griffon powered Seafire (I have not decided which exact variant we need).

compared to the -4 then sure, but then everything is underpowered compared to it ...

4,150fpm on the deck and 340mph at 6k isnt too shabby :)
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Bruv119 on March 28, 2011, 05:15:27 PM
I feel un-British rolling a perked hog to vulch with,  this will solve that massive problem    :D   :aok

the seafire is a little limp wristed to deal with the 5 la's that just upped in different directions  ;)
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 01:14:00 AM
I don't want to say "-1" but I can't give it a "+1" either. We need a late war Seafire, but the one you offered has clipped wings. Clipped wings significantly reduce high altitude performance (that's why our spit16 sucks). I'm all for have a Seafire mk III with elliptical wings.
I also think that Seafire 3 will still lack power (compared for corsairs for example), so I highly recommend a Griffon powered Seafire (I have not decided which exact variant we need).

Problem is the XV didn't get there in time.  The Seafire III is the most representative an scored the last Seafire kill of the war.  As much as it pains me to say the XV wouldn't fit, as it's the RN version of the Spit XII, it missed the war.  That's the only Griffon Seafire that even got close and it wasn't operational til early 46.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 01:21:28 AM
Problem is the XV didn't get there in time.  The Seafire III is the most representative an scored the last Seafire kill of the war.  As much as it pains me to say the XV wouldn't fit, as it's the RN version of the Spit XII, it missed the war.  That's the only Griffon Seafire that even got close and it wasn't operational til early 46.

Could you tell me where you found that out? I believe what you said, it's just that I could not find that information anywhere, therefore you probably have a good source which I don't.

Thanks
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 01:33:02 AM
Could you tell me where you found that out? I believe what you said, it's just that I could not find that information anywhere, therefore you probably have a good source which I don't.

Thanks

Best book on the Seafire is by Donald Brown and called "The Seafire"    A number of copies for not much cost on abebooks.com
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=David+Brown&sts=t&tn=The+Seafire&x=0&y=0

If you are a Seafire fan, that's the one I'd get.

The first Squadron to get XVs was 802 FAA in May 45, but the war ended before they ever got to a carrier or into action. 

This is found in any number of Spitfire books including the 'bible' of Spitfire books, "Spitfire The History" by E.B. Morgan
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 01:56:12 AM
Best book on the Seafire is by Donald Brown and called "The Seafire"    A number of copies for not much cost on abebooks.com
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=David+Brown&sts=t&tn=The+Seafire&x=0&y=0

If you are a Seafire fan, that's the one I'd get.

The first Squadron to get XVs was 802 FAA in May 45, but the war ended before they ever got to a carrier or into action. 

This is found in any number of Spitfire books including the 'bible' of Spitfire books, "Spitfire The History" by E.B. Morgan


Thanks





This is found in any number of Spitfire books including the 'bible' of Spitfire books, "Spitfire The History" by E.B. Morgan

~$150  :confused:
I was expecting this book to be around $50.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 02:19:50 AM
Just gotta know where to look.  About 40 bucks for a used one.  It's huge, so that's not bad at all

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Morgan&sts=t&tn=Spitfire-+The+History&x=41&y=17
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 02:22:51 AM
Just gotta know where to look.  About 40 bucks for a used one.  It's huge, so that's not bad at all

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Morgan&sts=t&tn=Spitfire-+The+History&x=41&y=17

Thank You Sir
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 02:36:18 AM
Since you got me going on Spits.  My all time favorite Spitfire book is the one by Bruce Robertson.  A 1961 publication, but still worth it as a history.  Not as expensive as the Morgan book.    The only disappointment with the Morgan book is that there are a number of wrongly identified pictures of Spits that someone should have caught.  For technical detail etc it's the one to have.  Robertson's book was the one to have prior to Morgans

http://www.amazon.com/Spitfire-Famous-Fighter-Bruce-Robertson/dp/B0007F7DOY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301383841&sr=1-1
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 02:49:58 AM
I can't really afford to buy all of them right now, so now I'm sitting here lost looking at all the great books you posted. I would prefer to get a book with as much technical data as possible on every version. Right now I'm mainly using these two: http://www.amazon.com/Merlin-Powered-Spitfires-35-Kev-Darling/dp/1580070574/ref=pd_sim_b_2 (http://www.amazon.com/Merlin-Powered-Spitfires-35-Kev-Darling/dp/1580070574/ref=pd_sim_b_2) & http://www.amazon.com/Griffon-Powered-Spitfires-Warbird-Tech-Vol/dp/B0044UZTD0 (http://www.amazon.com/Griffon-Powered-Spitfires-Warbird-Tech-Vol/dp/B0044UZTD0), they are very good if you read the whole thing but it's not the best for reference use. Which would be better if say I want to find out all numbers on the mk XIV the one by Robertson or Morgan?
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 02:57:18 AM
Morgan has the serial numbers and histories from the individual movement cards on all Spitfires produced, so if you want to know about a specific Spitfire and when it was accepted and what squadrons or units it served with, that would be the book.

If you are after something specific, I can sure look it up for you. The book is about 4 feet away from me on the shelf as I type :)

The below is the 41 Squadron website of Steve Brew.  The link goes tp some Spit XII histories.  The Spitfire XII stuff was compiled by me from the movement cards and pilot logbooks.  It's similar to what you'd find in Morgan although I did more detail since I was only covering 100 Spit XIIs

http://brew.clients.ch/EN221-238.htm#The
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 03:03:48 AM
I see, I'm leaning towards Morgan's book. You said some of the pictures are labeled wrong, would that be a big deal or are thous basic mistakes that I'd recognize and be able to live with?

That's for the offer, but if I allow myself to ask you to look something up I'd keep you here for hours as it would be a lot of questions.  :D


Thanks for that link.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: RTHolmes on March 29, 2011, 09:01:03 AM
I picked up a decent used copy of Morgan & Shacklady for £25 :aok


edit: Corky if you have any notes on the mislabelled pics, I'd like to print off an addendum to keep with my copy. yes, I'm a stickler for detail :D
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 12:38:51 PM
I'll come up with a list of the ones I've found so far.  While double checking the Seafire XV info, I found another where in the XV chapter they have a picture of an LFIII on it's nose on a carrier identified as an XV.  Rounded rudder was a dead giveaway that shouldn't have been missed by the editor in my opinion :)
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 02:13:18 PM
I'll come up with a list of the ones I've found so far.  While double checking the Seafire XV info, I found another where in the XV chapter they have a picture of an LFIII on it's nose on a carrier identified as an XV.  Rounded rudder was a dead giveaway that shouldn't have been missed by the editor in my opinion :)

You don't have to count them, could you just through out an approximate number?

If it's around 5 than it would not bother me, but if it's 50 I would not be as happy.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Guppy35 on March 29, 2011, 03:18:23 PM
You don't have to count them, could you just through out an approximate number?

If it's around 5 than it would not bother me, but if it's 50 I would not be as happy.

Probably 10-15 that were obvious to me.  Simple stuff like ID'ing a Spitfire XIV as the prototype Spitfire XII. ID'ing Spit VI as Spit V.  ID'ing a Spit V as a Spitfire IX.  ID'ing Spit VIIIs as IXs etc.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: MachFly on March 29, 2011, 04:04:21 PM
Probably 10-15 that were obvious to me.  Simple stuff like ID'ing a Spitfire XIV as the prototype Spitfire XII. ID'ing Spit VI as Spit V.  ID'ing a Spit V as a Spitfire IX.  ID'ing Spit VIIIs as IXs etc.

Oh that's not a problem. I'll most likely order it today, appreciated the help.
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: RTHolmes on April 16, 2011, 12:13:19 PM
lil bump here, just thought I'd add the production numbers to show that the Seafire III is an important version missing from AH:

#s     Mk
3971   LFIX
3923   VB
2447   VC
1549   I
1294   IX
1250   Sea III
1226   LF VIII
1054   LF XVI
920    II
500    XIV
471    XI
430    FR XIV
400    HFIX
372    Sea II
272    VIII
261    PR
225    XIX
160    HF VIII
141    VII
100    VI
100    XII
94     VA
27     XIV RV
16     X
2      III
2      IV
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: SgtPappy on April 16, 2011, 02:56:19 PM
Probably 10-15 that were obvious to me.  Simple stuff like ID'ing a Spitfire XIV as the prototype Spitfire XII. ID'ing Spit VI as Spit V.  ID'ing a Spit V as a Spitfire IX.  ID'ing Spit VIIIs as IXs etc.

I was reading an old encyclopedia that labelled a doodlbug-bound Tempest V as a Spitfire :S
Title: Re: Seafire LF Mk.III
Post by: Bruv119 on April 17, 2011, 06:02:22 AM
nvm   :noid