Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mechanic on March 31, 2011, 02:08:41 PM
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A South African rugby star has appeared in court for allegedly hacking three men to death with an axe.
Local reports claim Joseph Ntshongwana, 34, carried out the attacks in revenge for the gang rape of his daughter that left her infected with HIV.
Police said one of the alleged victims was decapitated, with his head found in a dustbin a mile away. Another victim's head "was left hanging by a thread".
Ntshongwana is a former flanker for top-flight side Blue Bulls, based in Pretoria.
It is reported that the girl was assaulted during a break-in at the family's home in Durban. Ntshongwana is accused of then stalking his victims over several days in nearby townships and slums before attacking them.
Detectives arrested him at 1.30am on Wednesday.
Police spokesman Vincent Mdunge said Ntshongwana was expected to appear in court to face three charges of murder and one of attempted murder after a fourth alleged victim managed to escape.
He added: "They found clothes with blood stains and a hire car he may have used during the alleged attacks."
According to The Telegraph, the suspect allegedly told a group of witnesses he would "kill 100 men if he could".
The paper quotes a police source, who said: "He didn't seem to make any effort to try and conceal himself. He was just driving around the townships in a car, then he would get out and attack someone.
"It was almost like he wanted to wipe out all the men from one particular area of the township."
Police cannot confirm that his daughter was raped, saying this will be investigated at a later date.
Ntshongwana has been remanded in police custody and is due back in court on 7 April for a bail hearing
Me? Oh yes, and hopefully make them suffer horribly. I would then hand myself in.
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Woulda shot all 3 of them in both kneecaps, watch them bleed. Then I'd ductape their mouths shut so they couldnt scream and I'd put a couple venomous snakes in the room with them.
Then Id hack them all up with an axe. This fellow just cut out the middle man.
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Axe was too easy for them.... I'm thinking blowtorch and a pair of pliers would be more appropriate....
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If the allegations about his daughter are true?
It would involve a jar of honey and fire ants...
In addition, my last name ends in a vowel and I know a few pig farmers.
Pigs can be known to eat anything, with the proper encouragement :devil
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I agree , an axe was too easy for them . Should have tied them down to a fire ant bed and let them get eating alive ..
EDIT :VonMessa , you beat me to it (fire ants)
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if the story about his daughter is true...i saw a very nice revenge in law abiding citizen for number one, just to get warmed up for the rest.
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I agree , an axe was too easy for them . Should have tied them down to a fire ant bed and let them get eating alive ..
EDIT :VonMessa , you beat me to it (fire ants)
That's OK, one can never have enough fire ants. :aok
It's like I tell my daughter's would-be boyfriends when they meet me.
"I own a .45 and a shovel. Any questions?"
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Yes i would have done it to. But I would use a power drill to cut a hole in his stomach, then dump a bowl of fire ants into that hole, seal it with some ductape and let them eat him from the inside out.
-BigBOBCH
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Yes i would have done it to. But I would use a power drill to cut a hole in his stomach, then dump a bowl of fire ants into that hole, seal it with some ductape and let them eat him from the inside out.
-BigBOBCH
Now we are talking :rock
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Noooo. 55 gallon drum, a mix of Sulfuric and Hydroflouric acid... Dump em in, seal em up. Later, pour out the goo. Next please.
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Yes i would have done it to. But I would use a power drill to cut a hole in his stomach, then dump a bowl of fire ants into that hole, seal it with some ductape and let them eat him from the inside out.
-BigBOBCH
Ouch .... :)
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Cut off appendage A. Insert A into orifice B. Poke out sight globes with glowing spike. Remove all phlanges with semi-sharp impliment. Crush all bendable joints with 10lb sledge. The list goes on and on.
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pain only makes the person faint or die from it relatively quickly.
Me? I'd take advantage of the fact that the human colon is a couple feet long. Surgically re-route it so the exit end is attached to the back of their throats.
and then I'd keep them each in a 10X10 cell padded with loony bounce walls.
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Axe.to common. I woulda tied him down, taped his mouth shut so he couldnt scream. I would then proceed to light a road flare and burn his apple. take a nice dull knife and cut fillets off his body...pour some salt into the open wounds.
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I almost cut a guys head off for looking at my daughters, seriously!
I cant say I would "torture" him.....no...I know I wouldn't, but he would lose his head, and God can do with him what he wants.
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if the story about his daughter is true...i saw a very nice revenge in law abiding citizen for number one, just to get warmed up for the rest.
We think way too much alike my friend :D
And they should give the guy a medal.
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So far no one (in this thread at least) has presented any evidence whatsoever that his allegations are true. Apparently, the police down there are either terrible beyond imagination (this happened to a celebrity's daughter, after all), or they couldn't piece together a strong enough case to arrest the men in the several days Ntshongwana was accused of stalking them for...
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So far no one (in this thread at least) has presented any evidence whatsoever that his allegations are true.
apparently you missed the hints regarding whether the daughter story is true or not...the question is not whether it is true or not but, in the event that the story about his daughter is true...what would you have done if you were in his place?
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I seem to recall a movie along these lines once; I think Samuel Jackson was yelling about something. (surprise!)
Pretty sure there were a couple of books as well... ;)
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If true then a tall tree and a badly tied knot on a short piece of rope is all I would need.
No need to be humane or even care if they strangle to death. They need to know that they took a life and therefore their life is forfeit in my eyes and mind.
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apparently you missed the hints regarding whether the daughter story is true or not...the question is not whether it is true or not but, in the event that the story about his daughter is true...what would you have done if you were in his place?
I have definitely missed the hints, because they aren't there in the OP's post as far as I can tell.
I'm not deliberately trying to be dense, btw... Just don't see it.
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I wouldn't. Because I have two and someone would have to take care of them. However, cousin Vito would have gotten a call. But first, I would have to somehow make sure I knew who the bad guys were
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I wouldn't. Because I have two and someone would have to take care of them. However, cousin Vito would have gotten a call. But first, I would have to somehow make sure I knew who the bad guys were
I'm sure cousin would make that part of his "arrangements" :devil
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I'm sure cousin would make that part of his "arrangements" :devil
have a "talk" with them, kiss 'em on the lips. :rock
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Vudak, stop being a goody-goody lawyer type and get with the revenge program :devil
Some excellent ideas coming here.
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well, first I would shoot their kneecaps out, then I would tie them up... naked (not homo, cause its about to get better) then... can of petrol and a match.... with a trail so they can see their demise coming towards them. Then set the building on fire.
burnt on bare skin... alive.. unable to move, then cremated.... all evidence removed... excruciating death....
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:O i have a daughter too. shes in the 1st grade. how horrible to see or to bear thinking of this. God only knows what id do to people with that kinda intentions to my daughter. sad story
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The Haitian necklace (necktie?) is a good one... tie their hands to their feet, kneel them in the middle of the street, put an old tire around their head/neck, slosh some gasoline inside the tire, set on fire. You get some good screaming out of that for a while, then some good wiggling and squirming for quite some time.
From the book Sniper about Carlos Hathcock, comes an oldie but goodie from Vietnam. Poke a hole in the bottom of a wicker basket, put victim's head through the hole so it's inside the basket, drop in one rat, sew lid on. The rat won't bite it's way out of the basket until there isn't anything else edible inside the basket, so that can take quite some time to end.
Oh yea, almost forgot... "IN".
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Sorry to interrupt the orgy of bloodletting desire...just saw this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Former-South-African-Rugby-Player-Joseph-Ntshongwana-In-Court-After-Three-Killed-In-Axe-Attacks/Article/201103415963774?lpos=World_News_Top_Stories_Header_4
police spokesman Vincent Mdunge said the suspect did not have a daughter who had been raped.
....It said Mr Broster asked that his client be taken out of police custody and placed in a psychiatric institution.
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Nobody wondered how he found the right guys?
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Nobody wondered how he found the right guys?
well, people do talk...especially the ones that prey on other people.
so the dude is a serial axe murderer... :O ...that case could turn out interesting...here in the u.s. his lawyer would blame society and his parents for the mental malfunction...lol
still if the daughter story was true... :t
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This thread reminded me of the movie history of the world when the Roman dude was asking for suggestions on how to execute Josephus :rofl
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My Family is my important asset.
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Doesnt mention if he got the right guys, sounds like he was hell bent on killing someone, anyone.
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At this point, we don't even know if there were any right guys.
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That is not the point. Let me rephrase:
If a group of men broke into your hosue and ganged raped your daughter infecting her with HIV, would you take the law into your own hands and seek revenge?
Why do people always have to normalise things. Just go with the flow baby!
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Batty,
I have thousands of fish hooks of all shapes and sizes,bet I could find a spot for each and everyone of them!
I envission a suspension bridge type of arrangment,with Arnie saying Hangin there Baby!
:salute
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that conjurs up a beautiful mental picture in my mind, Morf.
S!
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Interesting
And if you open a topic about current mid-east situation and how it may effect in our/children's life, you can be sure it's locked next to none...
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Me? Oh yes, and hopefully make them suffer horribly. I would then hand myself in.
they would never have found them when i got done with them....and they would suffer for a very long time.
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Are you guys insane? You'd get thrown in prison, and regret killing those men for the rest of your life. If you want to get revenge, take it to court. Then, those men will sit and stew in prison for the rest of their lives, and you walk away with a clean conscience.
-Penguin
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I always wondered what prompted PNG'd folks to whine on another forum, but having a shades account all the while. Is it grousing for the sake of grousing?
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I always what prompted PNG'd folks to whine another forum, but having a shades account all the while. Is it grousing for the sake of grousing?
I can't understand what you're saying. Are you saying:
1.) I am a shade
2.) I am grousing for the sake of grousing
3.) I whine on other forums
Number one isn't true, I am nobody's shade. Number two, no, I am not trying to grouse. The hypocrisy in this thread startles me, after seeing your daughter gang-banged, you go on a killing spree; seriously, how messed up is that? Number three, I have one other account on the Battlefield Bad Company 2 forums, and my screen name is Duxwing. I rarely go there anymore.
-Penguin
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I can't understand what you're saying. Are you saying:
1.) I am a shade
2.) I am grousing for the sake of grousing
3.) I whine on other forums
Number one isn't true, I am nobody's shade. Number two, no, I am not trying to grouse. The hypocrisy in this thread startles me, after seeing your daughter gang-banged, you go on a killing spree; seriously, how messed up is that? Number three, I have one other account on the Battlefield Bad Company 2 forums, and my screen name is Duxwing. I rarely go there anymore.
-Penguin
dont think he was talking about you.....as soon as my daughter was born, I knew they could get me for premeditated murder, I said that day if anyone ever touches them and hurts them, I will kill them. Killing spree...no just the one that hurt her.
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For once, I completely agree with Penguin. This thread is one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen. I have lost some respect for several members of the board because of it.
I would bid you good day, but it looks like none of you have any intention of making the day a good one.
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This thread reminded me of the movie history of the world when the Roman dude was asking for suggestions on how to execute Josephus :rofl
History of the World Part One!! An overlooked classic :D
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dont think he was talking about you.....as soon as my daughter was born, I knew they could get me for premeditated murder, I said that day if anyone ever touches them and hurts them, I will kill them. Killing spree...no just the one that hurt her.
There were three alleged rapists who the madman killed- so that makes it a spree.
-Penguin
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Would I have done it? No f***ing way.
I hope that in such a situation, I would have the presence of mind to realise that I would gain absolutely nothing by lowering myself to the level of the rapists.
And +1 to what Mar said.
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There were three alleged rapists who the madman killed- so that makes it a spree.
-Penguin
no....that makes it defending his family.
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no....that makes it defending his family.
How in the world is it defense, if they'd already hurt his daughter?
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How in the world is it defense, if they'd already hurt his daughter?
he has prevented the perpetraters from being able to further harm his family....or anyone elses.
i have ZERO sympathy for anyone that rapes, or messes with kids.........ZERO.....NONE>>>>NADA>>>>>ZILCH>>>>>>>ZIPPO
and i don't wanna pay for their room and board by having them in jail.
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he has prevented the perpetraters from being able to further harm his family....or anyone elses.
i have ZERO sympathy for anyone that rapes, or messes with kids.........ZERO.....NONE>>>>NADA>>>>>ZILCH>>>>>>>ZIPPO
and i don't wanna pay for their room and board by having them in jail.
I agree with the sympathy bit, but preemptively killing people isn't a very good way to handle stuff.
Also, if you killed the rapists - would you want someone else to have to pay for your stay in jail?
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I agree with the sympathy bit, but preemptively killing people isn't a very good way to handle stuff.
Also, if you killed the rapists - would you want someone else to have to pay for your stay in jail?
that is why no one would find them when i finished with them...as i stated in my earlier post.
that being said....i really am not a violent person. it's just the thought that if i had a daughter, and if someone did that to her. as it is, i'm already somewhat over-protective of my niece when i get to visit my brothers family.
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that is why no one would find them when i finished with them...as i stated in my earlier post.
that being said....i really am not a violent person. it's just the thought that if i had a daughter, and if someone did that to her. as it is, i'm already somewhat over-protective of my niece when i get to visit my brothers family.
Ah, ok... I usually only read the first and last pages of threads ;)
My question about whether you'd want someone to pay for your prison stay was more aimed at the general population of this thread.
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Ah, ok... I usually only read the first and last pages of threads ;)
My question about whether you'd want someone to pay for your prison stay was more aimed at the general population of this thread.
understood.........i kinda thought it was aimed at me...but was taking no offense to it, as i don't generally see offensive stuff from you. :aok
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I agree with the sympathy bit, but preemptively killing people isn't a very good way to handle stuff.
Meh, it worked in the wild west. :devil
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Even if hes cleared somehow, I wouldnt want him living next to me after that!
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I find it funny, that men were willing to go to a war that ended up killing over 50 million people. Because there were murderers and rapists coming for their families. And then when the same thing happens now, you get locked up for being a murderer.
Penguin, im serious dude. Even if there is a logical legal method. If someone does something that terrible, proper justice is dealt with no rules at all, because you can be sure, those guys will plead insanity or not right in the mind, and get off and then, their lawyers will countersue for wrongful prosecution and this distraught man who has to face the fact his daughter is going to die of a cold in 2 years time is going to be dead poor and probably shoot himself. While these two monsters get away scott free and rich....
If anyone believes in justice these days, they are fools. If someone campaigns to bring forth real justice.. they are a well meaning fool.
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I find it funny, that men were willing to go to a war that ended up killing over 50 million people. Because there were murderers and rapists coming for their families. And then when the same thing happens now, you get locked up for being a murderer.
How was WWII (I guess that's the one you mean) caused because of rapists and murderers? Last I checked, it was because of a psychopathic and charismatic dictator with fantasies of genocide and world domination.
Penguin, im serious dude. Even if there is a logical legal method. If someone does something that terrible, proper justice is dealt with no rules at all, because you can be sure, those guys will plead insanity or not right in the mind, and get off and then, their lawyers will countersue for wrongful prosecution and this distraught man who has to face the fact his daughter is going to die of a cold in 2 years time is going to be dead poor and probably shoot himself. While these two monsters get away scott free and rich....
I won't claim to know anything about the legal system in South Africa, but I doubt you know much more than I do. I'll assume that what you wrote about the insanity is based on what it is in America (correct me if I'm wrong). If so, you're completely wrong about an insanity plea. Read this:
Do people acquitted under an insanity defense walk free?
Rarely. In almost all cases, a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity prompts a judge to commit defendants to treatment centers until mental health officials determine they do not pose a danger to anyone. For some, that could be akin to a life sentence. M'Naghten, for instance, died after 20 years in a mental asylum.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/aron/qa227.htm (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/aron/qa227.htm)
I would not consider that to be 'scott free and rich', by any interpretation of the words. And anyway, if those people did in fact rape his daughter, it's just plain incorrect to think that a prison sentence would be a pleasant affair. For all that I hear about the virtues of freedom and how great it is, people seem to think the lack of freedom in prison is a trivial matter - I've never understood this.
If anyone believes in justice these days, they are fools. If someone campaigns to bring forth real justice.. they are a well meaning fool.
What does the idea of justice mean for you?
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Would I have done it? No f***ing way.
I hope that in such a situation, I would have the presence of mind to realise that I would gain absolutely nothing by lowering myself to the level of the rapists.
And +1 to what Mar said.
Fine, you're entitled to you opinion. You're also entitled to fail at life thinking you can turn the other cheek and survive. Jesus got away with 'turning the other cheek' because he could come back form the dead. Got HIV, nevermind, daddy will cure you. Doesn't work like that for this poor girl in South Africa.
Do you think justice would have been done by the African police?
Do you have a daughter, or a younger sister?
Just curious, not angry.
Two wrong's don't make a right?
Ironic that you take the moral high ground yet you enjoy a game about killing young, terrified boys in aeroplanes historicaly. Germans invaded Poland, so we went to war. Was that second wrong a mistake also then. Or should we have taken the moral highground and and let the Nazis plough through the whole of Europe?
Two wrong don't make a right. The world is not right. Life is not about fair or right. Sometimes the second wrong is the only course of action. It is beliefs like 'turn the other cheek' that cause crime rates to rise. If everyone defended their family with an axe there would be very little crime.
With respect.
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Nobody wondered how he found the right guys?
He didn't. He was just jumping out of his car and axing dudes. Because they were dudes, that's all.
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That is not the original point. If it was me I would have found the right guys before decapitating anyone. If I couldnt find them, I would keep searching.
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he has prevented the perpetraters from being able to further harm his family....or anyone elses.
i have ZERO sympathy for anyone that rapes, or messes with kids.........ZERO.....NONE>>>>NADA>>>>>ZILCH>>>>>>>ZIPPO
and i don't wanna pay for their room and board by having them in jail.
You're missing the whole point of what happened. He was just axing guys..... because they were guys. Not suspects. Just men, walking down the street.
Joseph Ntshongwana, 34, played for the Blue Bulls team which is based in Pretoria.
Reports in South Africa claimed he murdered the men to avenge the gang-rape of his daughter which left her infected with HIV.
However, police spokesman Vincent Mdunge said the suspect did not have a daughter who had been raped.
Ntshongwana faces three counts of murder, one of attempted murder and a charge of assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm.
Newspaper reports from South Africa claim one of the men was decapitated and his head was found in a rubbish bin 2km away.
Police have apparently told reporters another victim was found with his head only attached to his body "by a nerve".
No information has been released on the third victim.
Ntshongwana was arrested in Durban on Tuesday. An axe and bloodied clothes were found nearby.
Defence lawyer JP Broster said his client was not mentally fit to stand trial, according to the Cape Town Argus.
It said Mr Broster asked that his client be taken out of police custody and placed in a psychiatric institution.[/quote]
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Ok Moray, If it was true, would you have done it?
still no?
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Having 2 daughters...hmmm.
Castration I guess. And some more spice.
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My Idea of Justice?
if we *know* they did it, shoot them, if they twitch, shoot them again.
I am descended from generations of London police, they didnt carry guns and dedicated their lives to keeping people safe. But there were men, evil men such as the Cray's and other gangs and thugs, who murdered, stole, extorted and otherwise made life a misery for people. But we couldnt arrest them due to millions of little technicalities and even harder still was to get a conviction.
So I say, if we have a general consensus that they are guilty of a henious crime, we dispense justice the old fashioned way, with a rope or a gun.
to quote a song by a southern US country singer "if they are guilty, they would swing quickly, not be writing books and smiling on TV"
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My Idea of Justice?
if we *know* they did it, shoot them, if they twitch, shoot them again.
I am descended from generations of London police, they didnt carry guns and dedicated their lives to keeping people safe. But there were men, evil men such as the Cray's and other gangs and thugs, who murdered, stole, extorted and otherwise made life a misery for people. But we couldnt arrest them due to millions of little technicalities and even harder still was to get a conviction.
So I say, if we have a general consensus that they are guilty of a henious crime, we dispense justice the old fashioned way, with a rope or a gun.
to quote a song by a southern US country singer "if they are guilty, they would swing quickly, not be writing books and smiling on TV"
Yes, that works just well for you!
Until you get wrongly accused of some heinous crime...
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Fine, you're entitled to you opinion. You're also entitled to fail at life thinking you can turn the other cheek and survive. Jesus got away with 'turning the other cheek' because he could come back form the dead. Got HIV, nevermind, daddy will cure you. Doesn't work like that for this poor girl in South Africa.
I do think you can turn the other cheek and survive, Bat... It's been awhile since I've gone to England, but aside from making damn well sure you use a crosswalk, I'm really not sure what about the place compels you to think you have to act like a primitive to get another few breaths?
When someone wrongs you, you do not need to chop their head off over it.
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You're missing the whole point of what happened. He was just axing guys..... because they were guys. Not suspects. Just men, walking down the street.
Joseph Ntshongwana, 34, played for the Blue Bulls team which is based in Pretoria.
Reports in South Africa claimed he murdered the men to avenge the gang-rape of his daughter which left her infected with HIV.
However, police spokesman Vincent Mdunge said the suspect did not have a daughter who had been raped.
Ntshongwana faces three counts of murder, one of attempted murder and a charge of assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm.
Newspaper reports from South Africa claim one of the men was decapitated and his head was found in a rubbish bin 2km away.
Police have apparently told reporters another victim was found with his head only attached to his body "by a nerve".
No information has been released on the third victim.
Ntshongwana was arrested in Durban on Tuesday. An axe and bloodied clothes were found nearby.
Defence lawyer JP Broster said his client was not mentally fit to stand trial, according to the Cape Town Argus.
It said Mr Broster asked that his client be taken out of police custody and placed in a psychiatric institution.[/quote]
the original question was "would i have killed my daughters rapists if that happened to me.
my answer was yes. slowly and painfully, and they would never have been found.
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I do think you can turn the other cheek and survive, Bat... It's been awhile since I've gone to England, but aside from making damn well sure you use a crosswalk, I'm really not sure what about the place compels you to think you have to act like a primitive to get another few breaths?
When someone wrongs you, you do not need to chop their head off over it.
Sure when someone wrongs me. But when they wrong my daughter in such a terrible way and infect her with HIV, rational thinking departs.
Let's say you are attacked by a lion. You cannot ask the lion politely to not tear you apart. That is the law of nature. The men who would rape a girl and infect her with HIV are lower lifeforms than a lion.
So what would you do, Vudak? (If your daughter was raped and infected. Don't aruge that the scenario this was based on is true or not..)
What course of action would you take?
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Sure when someone wrongs me. But when they wrong my daughter in such a terrible way and infect her with HIV, rational thinking departs.
Let's say you are attacked by a lion. You cannot ask the lion politely to not tear you apart. That is the law of nature. The men who would rape a girl and infect her with HIV are lower lifeforms than a lion.
So what would you do, Vudak? (If your daughter was raped and infected. Don't aruge that the scenario this was based on is true or not..)
What course of action would you take?
There is a hole in your logic- a lion attacking you is threatening your immediate safety. A rapist infecting your daughter poses no danger to you, and the deed is already done. If you then go out and kill him, that is premeditated murder. This crime carries the death penalty or life in prison. Furthermore, your daughter can still live quite a while with HIV.
If your daughter is HIV positive, she still has 20 years left to go, not 2 [1]. Depending on her age, it might not even make a difference. This doesn't make it any better however, a diagnosis of HIV ensures death. However, I digress.
If you honestly believe that the court system is incapable of prosecuting a simple rape charge, you are mistaken [2]. Think of all the sex offenders out there- they were all prosecuted succesfuly. Granted, some got away, but their chances are slim at best of escaping forever.
-Penguin
Sources Cited:
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS#Prognosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS#Prognosis)
[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#Prosecution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#Prosecution)
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There is a hole in your logic- a lion attacking you is threatening your immediate safety. A rapist infecting your daughter poses no danger to you, and the deed is already done. If you then go out and kill him, that is premeditated murder. This crime carries the death penalty or life in prison. Furthermore, your daughter can still live quite a while with HIV.
If your daughter is HIV positive, she still has 20 years left to go, not 2 [1]. Depending on her age, it might not even make a difference. This doesn't make it any better however, a diagnosis of HIV ensures death. However, I digress.
If you honestly believe that the court system is incapable of prosecuting a simple rape charge, you are mistaken [2]. Think of all the sex offenders out there- they were all prosecuted succesfuly. Granted, some got away, but their chances are slim at best of escaping forever.
-Penguin
Sources Cited:
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS#Prognosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS#Prognosis)
[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#Prosecution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#Prosecution)
ok..here's how it is.
mess with my family, and be prepared to pay the ultimate price.
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ok..here's how it is.
mess with my family, and be prepared to pay the ultimate price.
Ok, here's how it is.
You don't go around randomly jumping out of your car with an ax and chopping people up just because someone hurt your kids. That's messed up, and leaves you no better (in fact, worse, since he raped her, you killed him and a whole bunch of other people) than the nutjob who caused you so much pain.
Your argument is futile, you are restating your conclusion, but you fail to support it. Hence, I declare victory and I will leave this thread.
-Penguin
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Penguin, you totaly missed my lion point. My point is that even if you and others like you dream of a world governed by law there will always be a natural creature who doesnt give a crap about your law. A lion would show you this, and rapists are lower lifeforms by far than lions. More importantly, if you do have faith that the legal system will always deal out justice in this kind of situation, you are a foolish sheep.
Anyhow, I would much rather my question be answered by Vudak, as he is someone who's opinion I respect.
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Ok, here's how it is.
You don't go around randomly jumping out of your car with an ax and chopping people up just because someone hurt your kids. That's messed up, and leaves you no better (in fact, worse, since he raped her, you killed him and a whole bunch of other people) than the nutjob who caused you so much pain.
Your argument is futile, you are restating your conclusion, but you fail to support it. Hence, I declare victory and I will leave this thread.
-Penguin
that wasn't the question. the question was what would we have done if our daughter was raped. we all answered the question.
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Penguin, you totaly missed my lion point. My point is that even if you and others like you dream of a world governed by law there will always be a natural creature who doesnt give a crap about your law. A lion would show you this, and rapists are lower lifeforms by far than lions. More importantly, if you do have faith that the legal system will always deal out justice in this kind of situation, you are a foolish sheep.
Anyhow, I would much rather my question be answered by Vudak, as he is someone who's opinion I respect.
Yes, but you can't stop the lion with anything but a gun. You are confusing the issue. The rapist, unless proven insane, is rational. If we went around as vigilantes all the time, there would be nothing but chaos. Furthermore, if you were wrongly accused of a crime, but some angry guy decided to take matters into his own hands, would you happily let him lynch you?
-Penguin
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Yes, but you can't stop the lion with anything but a gun. You are confusing the issue. The rapist, unless proven insane, is rational.HOW IS RAPING an 11 or 12 year old girl rational? If we went around as vigilantes all the time, there would be nothing but chaos.wrong. if criminals feared retribution, they'd be more hesitant to do anything wrong. Furthermore, if you were wrongly accused of a crime, but some angry guy decided to take matters into his own hands, would you happily let him lynch you?
-Penguin
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The law system is the retribution. Don't you see?
How is raping a 12 year old rational- that's a loaded question.
Unforutnately, not everyone accused is actually a criminal. Here's something to chew on, what happens if someone makes up a crime and lynches someone else? Then what? Then someone gets revenge, but revenge will only beget more revenge. Mob rule isn't a good system.
-Penguin
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The law system is the retribution. Don't you see?
How is raping a 12 year old rational- that's a loaded question.
Unforutnately, not everyone accused is actually a criminal. Here's something to chew on, what happens if someone makes up a crime and lynches someone else? Then what? Then someone gets revenge, but revenge will only beget more revenge. Mob rule isn't a good system.
-Penguin
yea..prisons are full of innocent people. ask any one of em and they'll tell ya so.
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Forget it CAP, Penguin hasn't had his dose of real life yet.
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Ok Moray, If it was true, would you have done it?
still no?
No. I would not take an ax and randomly cut off men's heads because I simply suspected them of some heinous act against my family. Which is exactly what this nutbag did, and he's in the looney bin, where he belongs.
This board is simply chock full of gut-emotion-reactant idiocy. Look where that got us for the past two decades.
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-1 to people getting bent out of shape in this thread... It's just a bunch of internet chest thumping and sharing our favorite ways to daydream about torturing and killing hypothetical people who have committed one of the worst crimes people can think of.
Surprised the thread is still unlocked, so here's another couple gross ways to imagine killing someone who has hypothetically raped your hypothetical daughter.
Sever a guy's Achilles tendons and the major tendons in the elbow, so they can't walk or crawl. Set them in a pool of gasoline, and set it on fire.
The old trick of shoving someone feet first into a wood chipper was apparently a favorite of Saddam Hussein's kids, and it's really tough to beat the classics like that. They just don't make torture kills like they used to.
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CAP
Yes, but you can't stop the lion with anything but a gun. You are confusing the issue. The rapist, unless proven insane, is rational.HOW IS RAPING an 11 or 12 year old girl rational? If we went around as vigilantes all the time, there would be nothing but chaos.wrong. if criminals feared retribution, they'd be more hesitant to do anything wrong. Furthermore, if you were wrongly accused of a crime, but some angry guy decided to take matters into his own hands, would you happily let him lynch you?
CAP, criminals don't fear retribution at all. In order to fear retribution, you must first believe 100% that you will be caught doing whatever bad thing you intend. If you don't feel that you will be caught, then retribution for the act never enters your thoughts.
Cheating on a girlfriend or spouse, as a lower example. You know your relationship will be finished IF she finds out. But only IF. The consequences are not real, unless they are 100% assured. Criminals mostly do not believe they will get caught, hence the punishment is never even considered, much like cheaters don't truly consider the loss of a spouse, should their infidelity become known. It is human nature.
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-1 to people getting bent out of shape in this thread... It's just a bunch of internet chest thumping and sharing our favorite ways to daydream about torturing and killing hypothetical people who have committed one of the worst crimes people can think of.
Surprised the thread is still unlocked, so here's another couple gross ways to imagine killing someone who has hypothetically raped your hypothetical daughter.
Sever a guy's Achilles tendons and the major tendons in the elbow, so they can't walk or crawl. Set them in a pool of gasoline, and set it on fire.
The old trick of shoving someone feet first into a wood chipper was apparently a favorite of Saddam Hussein's kids, and it's really tough to beat the classics like that. They just don't make torture kills like they used to.
Eagl, you're my favorite.
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CAP, criminals don't fear retribution at all. In order to fear retribution, you must first believe 100% that you will be caught doing whatever bad thing you intend. If you don't feel that you will be caught, then retribution for the act never enters your thoughts.
Cheating on a girlfriend or spouse, as a lower example. You know your relationship will be finished IF she finds out. But only IF. The consequences are not real, unless they are 100% assured. Criminals mostly do not believe they will get caught, hence the punishment is never even considered, much like cheaters don't truly consider the loss of a spouse, should their infidelity become known. It is human nature.
yea..i guess i can agree with that.......
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Forget it CAP, Penguin hasn't had his dose of real life yet.
Because you can comment, due your overt expertise on the subject? I guess you have had experience in having your daughter not really raped, and then hunted a few guys that you thought might have not really raped your daughter? With an ax?
Dismissal of someone else's views is a sign of a weak, insecure mind.
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-1 to people getting bent out of shape in this thread... It's just a bunch of internet chest thumping and sharing our favorite ways to daydream about torturing and killing hypothetical people who have committed one of the worst crimes people can think of.
It is just that...hypothetical thoughts, until many of these folks start attempting to rationalize their "fantasy" actions, and telling some that they are wrong in how they feel. You should be able to determine that line.
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ok..here's how it is.
mess with my family, and be prepared to pay the ultimate price.
Quoted for truth
IMO any parent that does not feel this way probably should not have became one.
Forget it CAP, Penguin hasn't had his dose of real life yet.
Another truth, about one of the biggest trolls on the boards.
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Fine, you're entitled to you opinion. You're also entitled to fail at life thinking you can turn the other cheek and survive. Jesus got away with 'turning the other cheek' because he could come back form the dead. Got HIV, nevermind, daddy will cure you. Doesn't work like that for this poor girl in South Africa.
I never mentioned turning the other cheek - but I wouldn't allow myself to be the jury and judge. I'd let the police handle it, and if I thought they weren't handling it appropriately, I'd harass them, work on it myself and generally do everything in my power until it had been handled to my satisfaction. What I would *not* do would be to lower myself to the level of a murderer (which as far as I'm concerned is roughly the equivalent of a rapist).
Do you think justice would have been done by the African police?
Do you have a daughter, or a younger sister?
I have no reason to think justice wouldn't be done. Look at the case of that Indian man who had his wife killed in SA recently - the police seemed to be quite efficient with that case. And no, I don't have either of those - but that doesn't mean I have no perspective on things like this.
Two wrong's don't make a right?
I don't think so - do you? If so, why?
Ironic that you take the moral high ground yet you enjoy a game about killing young, terrified boys in aeroplanes historicaly. Germans invaded Poland, so we went to war. Was that second wrong a mistake also then. Or should we have taken the moral highground and and let the Nazis plough through the whole of Europe?
No offense, but I think that's a massive fallacy. Firstly (this may make me sound like some sort of stereotypical-pacifist-whatever, but I don't care), I'm not sure that all these shoot-them-up games are morally correct - which is partly why I don't play very many of them. But at the end of the day, they aren't anything like the real thing, and I guess it follows that they shouldn't be treated as such. And as for the moral high ground in WWII being inaction - do you really that allowing genocide would be the moral high ground? I think 90% of wars (that figure's a guess, btw) could/should be avoided - but occasionally, a war needs to be fought - I think WWII was one of those instances.
Two wrong don't make a right. The world is not right. Life is not about fair or right. Sometimes the second wrong is the only course of action. It is beliefs like 'turn the other cheek' that cause crime rates to rise. If everyone defended their family with an axe there would be very little crime.
With respect.
I agree that the world isn't right, but if more wrongs were answered with a wrong, the world would be a hell of a lot worse. And the discussion on crime rates would probably be long and way off-topic, but I think your last point would be up for debate. Also, it is worth pointing out IMO that this particular case wasn't actually defense (which would probably be justifiable), but rather revenge - which I don't agree with. And as for what life's about - I guess that's up to the individual, and I agree with you - but I don't think that's a reason to be unfair.
Just to say, I think of revenge as an emotional thing, which generally doesn't solve anything except *possibly* making the person who took revenge feel better. But it also has the effect of creating two 'criminals' (i.e. two killers), and two victims, and all the associated consequences/problems. So I view revenge as basically doubling the number of problems, rather than solving any.
My Idea of Justice?
if we *know* they did it, shoot them, if they twitch, shoot them again.
I am descended from generations of London police, they didnt carry guns and dedicated their lives to keeping people safe. But there were men, evil men such as the Cray's and other gangs and thugs, who murdered, stole, extorted and otherwise made life a misery for people. But we couldnt arrest them due to millions of little technicalities and even harder still was to get a conviction.
So I say, if we have a general consensus that they are guilty of a henious crime, we dispense justice the old fashioned way, with a rope or a gun.
to quote a song by a southern US country singer "if they are guilty, they would swing quickly, not be writing books and smiling on TV"
Fair enough, but at the end of the day you will rarely (if ever) know for certain who did it, and it's because of that that we have a rather elaborate (and depending on your perspective, frustrating) justice system. And about your example from London - that sucks, but if summary justice were in use worldwide, there would be *a lot* of people who were punished for something they hadn't done. IMO, avoiding all those unfair punishments is worth having a definitely-imperfect justice system.
Sure when someone wrongs me. But when they wrong my daughter in such a terrible way and infect her with HIV, rational thinking departs.
I sort of think that's the crux of the issue. As you said, if someone hurts your daughter like that, rational thinking would depart. It's for that reason that you should not play jury, judge and executioner - those people need to be impartial, since if they're not, there's a very possible chance that you'll kill the wrong person. Hence, I think it follows that you're wrong.
Also, just out of interest, to everyone in this thread: how many of you would actually be willing to change your opinion about this topic based on (logical) arguments you see here?
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You guys are too easy- rapists deserve tickle torture until they wet their pants.
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The law system is the retribution. Don't you see?
You have absolutely no idea about law systems outside of your home country. Least of all, South Africa. you are wrong.
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Yossarian, good post. Of course I understand everything you are saying.
To your final question, no, I would not be willing to change my mind on this no matter what any reasonable argument suggests. If you did that to my daughter, you're going to suffer a fate worse than death at my hands and I will smile into your eyes while I do it to you. (all the arguments about the actual case not being what we though are moot, the question is 'if this is what happened and it happened to your daughter').
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Also, just out of interest, to everyone in this thread: how many of you would actually be willing to change your opinion about this topic based on (logical) arguments you see here?
[I cut out the parts that I wasn't going to reply to]
I suppose this includes me, too. The circumstances would have to be very, very special (for instance, I live in the Terminator world, my daughter is Sarah Connor and I know it). Otherwise, let the court take care of it, I don't want blood on my hands.
You have absolutely no idea about law systems outside of your home country. Least of all, South Africa. you are wrong.
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Yossarian, good post. Of course I understand everything you are saying.
To your final question, no, I would not be willing to change my mind on this no matter what any reasonable argument suggests. If you did that to my daughter, you're going to suffer a fate worse than death at my hands and I will smile into your eyes while I do it to you. (all the arguments about the actual case not being what we though are moot, the question is 'if this is what happened and it happened to your daughter').
Are you an expert in that field? If so, then you may have a point. Do you have any experience there that I do not? Are you a travelling lawyer who is versed in the laws of countries worldwide? (Not that I am, though I know that it could be read that way). Otherwise, you have none more than I do.
Furthermore, what you suggest is madness, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, don't you see? What if you killed the wrong man? What then? Does his family then go out and start killing people? Mob rule is insanity.
-Penguin
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An eye for an eye acts as a deterrent. An eye for a small stretch in a warm cell with free food does not.
As for your lawyer style questions...well....I dare you to go to Johannesburg and call any man on the street an insulting name and then see how quickly you become dog food. And..no...no one will care that it happened to you and ....no...the man who does it to you will never be brought to trial. The SA police will laugh at your stupidity and never blink about it. But...But.....you only called him a dickhead, why would he kill you for that?? Just go and try. The world is ruled by mobs. The most powerfull mobs wear uniforms.
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An eye for an eye acts as a deterrent. An eye for a small stretch in a warm cell with free food does not.
As for your lawyer style questions...well....I dare you to go to Johannesburg and call any man on the street an insulting name and then see how quickly you become dog food. And..no...no one will care that it happened to you and ....no...the man who does it to you will never be brought to trial. The SA police will laugh at your stupidity and never blink about it. But...But.....you only called him a dickhead, why would he kill you for that?? Just go and try. The world is ruled by mobs. The most powerfull mobs wear uniforms.
(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/8/21/isenseadistur128638069543811593.jpg)
I feel a brisk 915 am EST close to this thread....
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I won't be replying again anyhow, but I do not see why the thread should be locked. It's an interesting topic in the O'club. It's no political, rascist or derogatory it is just a strong disagreement of opinions.
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An eye for an eye acts as a deterrent. An eye for a small stretch in a warm cell with free food does not.
As for your lawyer style questions...well....I dare you to go to Johannesburg and call any man on the street an insulting name and then see how quickly you become dog food. And..no...no one will care that it happened to you and ....no...the man who does it to you will never be brought to trial. The SA police will laugh at your stupidity and never blink about it. But...But.....you only called him a dickhead, why would he kill you for that?? Just go and try. The world is ruled by mobs. The most powerfull mobs wear uniforms.
You may be right about South Africa, but how do you know?
And I think I agree with what you said about the world being ruled by mobs, but isn't that basically just an alternative definition of civilisation? A group of people banding together (ie a mob) and creating something organised (which then can be categorised as various smaller mobs, of which there would be the police, government, military, companies etc). So I agree with what you said, but I'm not sure if it's actually is important here, since the world is what it is, and most of us will probably never change it.
Also, I have no idea about the mindset of your average criminal/prisoner (it's probably meaningless to say 'average' in that context), but I think that if a prison sentence were combined with some sort of reintegration programme, the re-offending rate would go way down.
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-1 to people getting bent out of shape in this thread... It's just a bunch of internet chest thumping and sharing our favorite ways to daydream about torturing and killing hypothetical people who have committed one of the worst crimes people can think of.
Surprised the thread is still unlocked, so here's another couple gross ways to imagine killing someone who has hypothetically raped your hypothetical daughter.
Sever a guy's Achilles tendons and the major tendons in the elbow, so they can't walk or crawl. Set them in a pool of gasoline, and set it on fire.
The old trick of shoving someone feet first into a wood chipper was apparently a favorite of Saddam Hussein's kids, and it's really tough to beat the classics like that. They just don't make torture kills like they used to.
Exactly as I took it........ hence the "hang in there baby" remark
Oh well if this gets locked it will be a first for me! never been in a thread that was locked!
:salute
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each one would suffer in his own way...
The very first thing would be to cut off their eye lids..
I would rip out the eyes of one, leave the nerve attached and turn it around so he could watch himself die without using a mirror. Let him watch the life fade from his own eyes. Snip off their minor extremities (fingers, toes, genitals) after pulling off the nails with a set of pliers. I'd pour acid on them in small amounts, I'd rub down the wounds with ghost chili peppers and salt. While this is going on I'd use electricity and smelling salts to keep them awake. I'd split the apple with a blade, I'd ram a screw driver through the space in the front lower part of the knee....hell run a current into their teeth so it hits the nerve...the screams of these individuals would bring so much pleasure.
After doing this I'd cut their tendons as mentioned before, pull their teeth out, split their tongue in half, then rip it out. Make them try to stand up. I'd cut off the noodle and ram it in their mouth, duct tape it in. Slit their nostrils.....drop bleach into one of their eyes. All the while I'd have the Barney theme song playing in the background. "We love you...".....
I'll stop there....
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Nah, you wouldn't do all that. A normal, decent human being wouldn't be capable of such savagery even to someone who they felt richly deserved it.
You might start to, but would begin to feel horrified and then might just dispatch them and be done with it.
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You'd like to assume so.
The screams of agony would fill me with much joy...
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I still don't think so, unless you happen to be psychotic.
No doubt a sane person could kill another out of revenge, even in a crude brutal fashion such as bludgeoning, that sort of systematic, heinous brutality isn't something we could stick to for very long.
We just aren't wired for it.
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Psychotic or just that much rage? Family comes before everything in my eyes. True friends are family as well. Not your everyday friend, but those you know who would be there until the end.
If my family is harmed, I'll do the most damage possible. It's why you wouldn't want me in interrogation....I'd get the info you want, but I would refuse to follow the rules.
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Hearing the screams, looking at the fear and pain in the eyes of the guilty....would be nothing but satisfaction. I'm not a baby killer so I wouldn't say I'm completely psycho, but that switch I feel flip from time to time would get put on perma-kill until the job was done.
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Plus sometime I think I'm crazy, which normally means you aren't crazy, because the truly crazy don't see themselves as insane. - then again that could be me not seeing myself as crazy by using that excuse! Ohhhh a worm hole just opened! :)
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I m guessing this thread is like everything else. Lots of talk, lots of tough guys, lots of I would have, bla bla bla. In the end, only a very small percentage of the posters would have really done anything (probably the ones that stayed quiet.)
Don't forget, some of the tough guys here are the ones that will use every excuse in the world to not go to the DA and face a cartoon fight. I don;t think they would actually go out and try to take on three rapists/murderers etc.
To be clear, killing them while they attempt the rape is defending your family. Killing them a few days after is just revenge. I have no problem with revenge, but lets call it what it is. If I could get them, I would. But lets face it, it would have been near impossible to find 3 men you never saw and even if I did, who would take care of my daughters if I did kill them? So, yeah, easy to talk about what we would have done but I bet you no one if any would have actually done anything.
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good post Ded, one of the best posts yet
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good post Ded, one of the best posts yet
I just read your sig :rofl :rofl
friggin funny watermelon right there :rofl
and ya Ded is dead on..... :aok
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... and then there are the 1% that have the resources to track them down.
Finding someone to take care of the kids implies getting caught...
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... and then there are the 1% that have the resources to track them down.
Finding someone to take care of the kids implies getting caught...
friends don't let you drink and drive......good friends help you bury the bodies :aok
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friends don't let you drink and drive......good friends help you bury the bodies :aok
I always thought that good friends wipe out your hard drive after you die :rofl
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I always thought that good friends wipe out your hard drive after you die :rofl
:rofl
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good friends help you bury the bodies :aok
(http://i54.tinypic.com/j653bb.jpg)
just a quick one I threw together xD
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swamps can hide many a body. and Yes ina heartbeat.