Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: K-KEN on April 08, 2011, 08:29:52 AM
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I would like to see a renewed effort to move a PBY into the lineup.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/JRF-5_NAS_Jax_1942.jpg/300px-JRF-5_NAS_Jax_1942.jpg)
We need another method of dropping supplies, troops, and just plain marking GVs without ordnance for normal gameplay and especially scenarios. Of course, a Piper Cub might fit that bill as a spotter! :rofl
Since it can land and takeoff from land or sea, it would be a perfect candidate for my next Wishlist Thread....
Air/Sea Rescue Operations. :angel:
Thank you in advance for the consideration. (and a place to voice my request) It really is apppreciated.
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Pssst... K-KEN... that's a Grumman JRF Goose, not a PBY Catalina...
But.. +1 for either..
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The PBY was not a troop transport, nor a cargo plane. While there was a troop transport version of the H8K, it was not capable of paratroop drops so far as I know.
The PBY would be a sitting duck in AH. The Sunderland would be scarcely any better.
The only flying boat that would have any survivability in AH would be the H8K2 "Emily".
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While the PBY was not a troop transport, PBYs were used to drop special forces units behind enemy lines and could easily carry the 10 troops needed in AH to capture towns.
ack-ack
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the sunderland held it's own on several instances. the only one i can think of off the top of my head is when some sunderland shot down at least 2 atacking enemy fighters. and i might be wrong on this point, but wasnt the H8K2 basically a structural knock-off of the sunderland? sure, they changed the guns around a bit, adding a 20mm and what not, but other than that, they're pretty close to the same, no?
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the sunderland held it's own on several instances. the only one i can think of off the top of my head is when some sunderland shot down at least 2 atacking enemy fighters. and i might be wrong on this point, but wasnt the H8K2 basically a structural knock-off of the sunderland? sure, they changed the guns around a bit, adding a 20mm and what not, but other than that, they're pretty close to the same, no?
No, the H8K2 was, by far, the best flying boat of WWII and was designed from the ground up by Kawanishi, having no relationship to the Short design at all.
I simply do not understand why, even 70 years later, people still insist on thinking the Japanese just copied other country's designs and didn't design their own despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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I simply do not understand why, even 70 years later, people still insist on thinking the Japanese just copied other country's designs and didn't design their own despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
I would say because some people think they look similar but I won't even go that far. It's because, for some people, they are big flying boats so they must be the same.
My favorite so far is B-29--> Tu-4 (an actual clone)--> Tu-95 Bear.
All I can figure is the Tu-2 and Tu-95 are both Soviet, are both silver color, and both have four engines.
wrongway
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I would say because some people think they look similar but I won't even go that far. It's because, for some people, they are big flying boats so they must be the same.
Perhaps, but it is more than just that. My mom gave me a aviation DVD set for Christmas one year and in the included booklet it claims that the A6M 'Zero' was designed by Howard Hughes. No mention of that Jiro Horikoshi guy who actually designed it, just a false claim that it was designed by Hughes.
As to the H8K, Sunderland and other big flying boats, the hull forms available are rather limited, so it is not surprising that they look similar.
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Pssst... K-KEN... that's a Grumman JRF Goose, not a PBY Catalina...
But.. +1 for either..
hehehe Thanks Drone! I knew when I searched the PBY on Google I would be open to a challenge. You are correct but I was more interested in the actual profile! :) Thanks for clarifying my error!
I can also think of many applications in Scenarios where it might be used.
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Pssst... K-KEN... that's a Grumman JRF Goose, not a PBY Catalina...
But.. +1 for either..
Maybe it just shrank in the wash :D
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hehehe Thanks Drone! I knew when I searched the PBY on Google I would be open to a challenge. You are correct but I was more interested in the actual profile! :) Thanks for clarifying my error!
I can also think of many applications in Scenarios where it might be used.
Just as a point of order, I had no trouble at all finding plenty of genuine PBY pics on Google Image search when I just searched for "PBY...."
That said, while the Cat wouldn't have a major impact on the Mains I'd still love to see her. A Black Cat variant could be fun, especially in FSO/Scenario play where night-time anti-shipping raids are possible.
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would rather see the DUCK for resupply of land and water gvs and pt`s
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/J2F-3_NAS_Jax_1940-2.jpg)
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For the Record, I liked the black and white image and the fact it was on the wheels on land.
Catalina Flying boat - Black Cat...
(http://www.alamoscouts.org/archives1/asgg_205.jpg)
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I will second the PBY request. It is no more a siting duck than a C47. Heck it was at least armed. The Black Cats even had a field variant that had quad fifties mounted in the nose under that turret. They were mounted slightly downward so the pilot didn't have to now down towards the ground to strafe stuff at night.
But the real value of the Cat would be to reinvision night ops with all the clicks and whistles that were available in WWII. It would be cool to have Icon ranges at night reduced to like 100 yards or so, which I think is pretty close to visual range for gun solutions at night, ( I could be way off here so something more appropriate would work for me fine ). It would be nice to have an F6 screen for night bombers that was a monocrome radar display, or have to illuminate targets with firebombs to bomb accurately at night. The Night Game has never really been purued. It is possible that to make it work a seperate NigthOps arena might need to be set up. That might be cool indeed.
But even without all that, I would really love to fly a catalina. It was just a beautiful airplane.
OLtos
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we'll just throw some torpedos on a Dr.1
PBY and Dr.1 fly about the same speed.only the PBY is a bigger,easyer target.
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PBY-5A: 2 torpedos OR 10 troops. with the option of taking off from airfields OR ports! Maybe some guns? That right there in my book makes it better than the C-47
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Some Catalina's were equipped with radar were they not?
How about putting them in the game as flying radar? think of it as the AWAC's of the AH world, It would probational be a favorite to include in bomber missions along with covering bases who have had there dar taken down. Could keep it from becoming an hanger queen.
And doesnt our ports already have the boat ramp most ww2 ports had to haul Catalina's out of the water? im not sure personally, i just remember someone mentioning this when the new ports came out.
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+1 maybe not a dar ring as big as a base, but how about like 1/4 size of a base? would be awesome
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we'll just throw some torpedos on a Dr.1
PBY and Dr.1 fly about the same speed.only the PBY is a bigger,easyer target.
point? i shot down three spits in DA in a DR1...
+1 for PBY
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point? i shot down three spits in DA in a DR1...
+1 for PBY
keep in mind the 8 year olds with no skill in the DA.especialy the retards who try to turn with a Dr.1 in any plane.
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Some Catalina's were equipped with radar were they not?
All PBYs were equipped with radar to detect surface targets.
How about putting them in the game as flying radar? think of it as the AWAC's of the AH world, It would probational be a favorite to include in bomber missions along with covering bases who have had there dar taken down. Could keep it from becoming an hanger queen.
Because the radar on the PBY didn't work like that. It could not detect aircraft, it was used to detect surface targets for their nightly bombing missions against Japanese bases and shipping.
And doesnt our ports already have the boat ramp most ww2 ports had to haul Catalina's out of the water? im not sure personally, i just remember someone mentioning this when the new ports came out.
Not all PBYs were amphibious models and didn't require any ramps as they'd be serviced on the water tied up to floatplane tenders or docks. Those PBYs that were also amphibians were also usually serviced on the water, if not then they'd just land on water and drive teh PBY up on the beach.
ack-ack
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Those PBYs that were also amphibians were also usually serviced on the water, if not then they'd just land on water and drive teh PBY up on the beach.
ack-ack
I dare you to give me an example.
semp
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I dare you to give me an example.
semp
PBY Black Cat warms up its engines on a Carolina Islands atoll prior to a mission in May of 1945.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/carolineatoll-warmup.jpg)
If the sand wasn't packed or wide enough for a PBY, crews would beach the plane instead.
Here is a PBY from VP-11 beached on the shores of the Sepik River while on a mission to rescue trapped Australians far behind enemy lines.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/sepik_river_rescue.gif)
Do you need further examples?
ack-ack
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All PBYs were equipped with radar to detect surface targets.
Because the radar on the PBY didn't work like that. It could not detect aircraft, it was used to detect surface targets for their nightly bombing missions against Japanese bases and shipping.
Not all PBYs were amphibious models and didn't require any ramps as they'd be serviced on the water tied up to floatplane tenders or docks. Those PBYs that were also amphibians were also usually serviced on the water, if not then they'd just land on water and drive teh PBY up on the beach.
ack-ack
Well, let me revise what i said then.
The pby was used for cargo transport right? How about putting it in the game with the ability to be the only aircraft to carry CV repair supplies? You could fly out, land within the cruiser ring, and drop supplies in order to repair the cv.
Or how about make it the only plane able to up out of a port?
It par-took in anti-submarine activities, When we get submarines then the pby would deff be useful in AH.
And you say it had radar to detect surface ships? That could make the Pby even more important to Aces high, If you give it the ability to find CV groups using that radar. It would never become a hanger queen then, and would be our solution to people wanting to hide CV's.
Just my thought, i do think HTC will put it in the game tho once we have controllable submarines :salute
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OOO pby catalina!!!!
yea.. give it radar, and let it carry troops and supps...oooooo nice!!! :aok
i can see the whole new range of troop carriers.... pbys with radar, ju52 with fuselage gun... :rock
PLEASEEEEEEEEEE HITECH... PLEASE!!! :pray
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Well, let me revise what i said then.
The pby was used for cargo transport right?
No.
P = Patrol
B = Bomber
Y = USN designation for the manufacturer, Consolidated
wrongway
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No.
P = Patrol
B = Bomber
Y = USN designation for the manufacturer, Consolidated
wrongway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBY_Catalina
During World War II, PBYs were used in anti-submarine warfare, patrol bombing, convoy escorts, search and rescue missions (especially air-sea rescue), and cargo transport.
Only good link i could find, everything else was just talking about pby scale models. idk where you guys get all your information, but i just cant find the website.
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Well, let me revise what i said then.
The pby was used for cargo transport right? How about putting it in the game with the ability to be the only aircraft to carry CV repair supplies? You could fly out, land within the cruiser ring, and drop supplies in order to repair the cv.
Cargo in the case of the PBYs were dropping supplies to the teams like the Alamo Scouts that were put in behind enemy lines or maybe dropping supplies to downed airmen while they await rescue. It did not carry cargo like a C-47, it wasn't built for that nor could it carry the weight. Maybe the PBY in game could get away with being able to drop a small number of GV supplies but that would be about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBY_Catalina
During World War II, PBYs were used in anti-submarine warfare, patrol bombing, convoy escorts, search and rescue missions (especially air-sea rescue), and cargo transport.
Only good link i could find, everything else was just talking about pby scale models. idk where you guys get all your information, but i just cant find the website.
Wiki isn't really the best source of info for the PBY, it's very generalized and really lacking specifics. A good source of info on the PBY's action in the PTO from the beginning to the end with an emphasis on the Black Cat operations and PBY bombing raids, "Black Cat Raiders of WWII" by Richard C. Knott is a good place to start.
ack-ack
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PBY Black Cat warms up its engines on a Carolina Islands atoll prior to a mission in May of 1945.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/carolineatoll-warmup.jpg)
If the sand wasn't packed or wide enough for a PBY, crews would beach the plane instead.
Here is a PBY from VP-11 beached on the shores of the Sepik River while on a mission to rescue trapped Australians far behind enemy lines.
(http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/sepik_river_rescue.gif)
Do you need further examples?
ack-ack
ha, not even close keep posting more examples.
semp
ps just being funny, but i like seeing pictures.
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I saw a PBY-5A "Black Cat" at a Jacksonville air show years ago and the crew explained the difference of the -5A and regular to the 12 year old me and how they would drive the -5As up boat docks and such for reit
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Cargo in the case of the PBYs were dropping supplies to the teams like the Alamo Scouts that were put in behind enemy lines or maybe dropping supplies to downed airmen while they await rescue. It did not carry cargo like a C-47, it wasn't built for that nor could it carry the weight. Maybe the PBY in game could get away with being able to drop a small number of GV supplies but that would be about it.
ok so wait...you're saying that with a payload capacity of 4000lbs (2000lbs less than the c-47), the pby could not carry the weight of anything more than survival rations if it were fitted to do so?
:lol :rofl :lol :rofl
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ok so wait...you're saying that with a payload capacity of 4000lbs (2000lbs less than the c-47), the pby could not carry the weight of anything more than survival rations if it were fitted to do so?
:lol :rofl :lol :rofl
It didn't have the interior capacity for carrying large or heavy cargo, unlike a dedicated cargo carrier like the C-47. Cargo would also have to be limited in size due to how you'd have to get the cargo in and out of the PBY. Unlike the C-47, it didn't have a large side door to allow easy loading and unloading of cargo and didn't have a bomb bay to help load and unload cargo.
ack-ack
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I would say because some people think they look similar but I won't even go that far. It's because, for some people, they are big flying boats so they must be the same.
My favorite so far is B-29--> Tu-4 (an actual clone)--> Tu-95 Bear.
All I can figure is the Tu-2 and Tu-95 are both Soviet, are both silver color, and both have four engines.
wrongway
Reread this thread...
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/B-17/H8K2.gif)
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z446/B-17/sunderlandprofile.jpg)
VeRY similar, no?
That's where I was confused. I also never said anything about Japanese planes simply being knockoffs of better Allied planes, I was simply making the [wrong] assumption that the Sunderland was better protected.
My bad.
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You said "H8K2 basically a structural knock-off" which reads as a copy. I didn't say "inferior copy", just copy. The implication of those words are that the Japanese didn't create their own, they just copied the British. I will be blunt, as Mitsubishi and Nakajima engineers were in post war interviews, Japanese engines from before the start of the war were licensed copies, or derivatives thereof, of American and British engines. They most certainly did copy things, but they also created their own designs as well.
Yes, they do look similar, though IIRC the H8K is somewhat larger. They look similar as the basic form available for a large flying boat is significantly dictated by the "boat" portion of that and the hydrodynamics of taking it off of the water.
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Yes I did say that, didn't I... dammit.
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Would be a cool addition stationed at ports. Of course a water takeoff.
:cheers: Oz
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PBY with air to surface radar would be B.A. For finding enemy fleets.
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O how I love the PBY! The PBY is a dedicated beast. 2x 2000lb Torps 4x 1000 lb bombs 10x troops and as far as the whole cargo goes I know it could carry small cargo but not enough to repair a fleet or a base. Now as for the surface Radar that is a great idea! To be able to have a CV actually pop up on the map if within range would be very nice. No more having to go out and guess the general direction. And for the people who dislike the Troop carrier idea I agree it shouldnt carry paratroops BUT it should be able to carry Spec ops and have to land to let them out. I mean already people land C-47 all the time to release troops what would be wrong with landing the PBY!
+1 For a versitileand able bird that gets a bad rep to slow speeds!
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+1 For a versitileand able bird that gets a bad rep to slow speeds!
It would be easier to hit a slow moving target than it would be a fast target. Goons are easier to kill than ponies. You would have to be very high to avoid flack (around 10k to avoid auto and over 10k to dodge CV 5" guns.) The size of the PBY doesn't help it either. The Val, Stuka, and SBD might be slow but is small enough to avoid flack. (Unless manned.)
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Per the story Ack Ack posted a bit ago, the last H8K2 to be flown by the Japanese was escorted to its surrender by a PBY. The H8K2 had to fly a zig-zag course so as not to outpace the PBY.
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To be able to have a CV actually pop up on the map if within range would be very nice.
It probably wouldn't work like that in game, after all in real life it didn't work that way.
The PBYs were equipped with an ASV radar system with a very limited range, less than 20 miles and were mostly used at night for navigation and for locating potential surface targets. When a target was detected, the pilot still had to visually locate the target and then would notify the targets position to other Black Cats in the area to come along and join the party.
In daytime, the ASV radar wasn't really used as the Mark I I-Ball Target Location and Aquisition System was far more effective in daylight and a pilot using said system could locate surface targets further away than 20 miles, especially if the pilot was using a visual enhancer with the Mark I I-Ball system.
Because there is no night in AH, having a crude ASV system on a plane would be useless because a player would stand a better chance locating the CV with the Mark I I-Ball than they would with the crude and early ASV system that PBY's used at night. Any thought of using the PBY as some sort of WW2 version of a J-Star radar plane is a tad unrealistic.
ack-ack
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IIRC the PBY had 2 .50 cal waist guns, 3 .30 cal guns, 2 in front, 1 in the ventral and i believe it had 2 20mm cannons? (maybe). but on the topic of picking up downed pilots, no. if you are that greedy for the spotlight then you dont deserve to be picked up.
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Per the story Ack Ack posted a bit ago, the last H8K2 to be flown by the Japanese was escorted to its surrender by a PBY. The H8K2 had to fly a zig-zag course so as not to outpace the PBY.
Yep, the Emily was a lot faster than the old Catalina.
ack-ack
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IIRC the PBY had 2 .50 cal waist guns, 3 .30 cal guns, 2 in front, 1 in the ventral and i believe it had 2 20mm cannons? (maybe). but on the topic of picking up downed pilots, no. if you are that greedy for the spotlight then you dont deserve to be picked up.
The 20mm equipped PBY was a field modification and only a very few were modified in such a fashion, as were the ones modded with the quad .50s in the nose mount.
ack-ack
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+1
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The 20mm equipped PBY was a field modification and only a very few were modified in such a fashion, as were the ones modded with the quad .50s in the nose mount.
ack-ack
well thanks for verifying. i didnt know the 20mm's were mods on the plane.
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i would still fly it :aok
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i would still fly it :aok
they said the same thing about the b29.
semp
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they said the same thing about the b29.
semp
people do fly it, not income to see them.