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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Slade on April 16, 2011, 08:11:15 AM

Title: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Slade on April 16, 2011, 08:11:15 AM
Hello,

I was wondering if you could help me understanding something please.

Why are 2 or more hot pads considered just one sortie?

I am not saying it is good or bad, just want to understand why.


Thanks,

Slade  :salute
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Lusche on April 16, 2011, 08:57:52 AM
Because a sortie ends when you end it. It's the time between entering your plane and exiting. As long as you are not back in tower, you are still "in flight".
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Slade on April 16, 2011, 09:53:46 AM
Lusche,

Thanks I had to think about that a while.  I am slow.  Is that how they tended to do sorties in WWII, using hot pads?

In WWII, was it a Pacific theater practice vs. a European theater practice?

How did that work?

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Lusche on April 16, 2011, 09:56:36 AM
This has nothing to do with "real life". It's simply a gameplay definition, and it only has a meaning in terms of score.

In RL, hotpadding was sometimes used too, though of course it wasn't as quick as in Aces High. For example, late in the war fighters taking part in the Defense of the Reich would often land to refuel and rearm on a different field to attack the bombers again on their way back home. I don't know if those were counted as separate sorties, or if it did even matter at all.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Traveler on April 16, 2011, 10:02:09 AM
Lusche,

Thanks I had to think about that a while.  I am slow.  Is that how they tended to do sorties in WWII, using hot pads?

In WWII, was it a Pacific theater practice vs. a European theater practice?

How did that work?

Thanks again.




I think it depended more on theater of operation and what was happening at the time rather then a set policy.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: icepac on April 16, 2011, 10:04:19 AM
Without refuel/rearm, you cannot ferry a plane............as they did in the war.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Nypsy on April 16, 2011, 10:05:24 AM
In Viet Nam we did hot pad refueling when traveling cross country. No engine shut down just stick the fuel hose in the tank and fill er up. It was considered one sortie as I remember it.                     This was on UH-1N helicopter gun ships in the 20ths S.O.S. (Special Operations Squadron).
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: icepac on April 16, 2011, 03:09:49 PM
They probably did that to keep down the medal count.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: oboe on April 16, 2011, 03:37:02 PM
From Wikipedia,

Quote
In military aviation, it is used to indicate the total usages of individual machines, so that (for example) one mission involving six aircraft would tally six sorties.

The use of the term for military aircraft originated in naval usage. In French, sortie literally means "exit". It has evolved to mean a short period of conflict, as in the time when the vehicles and vessels are away from their carrier or local berth.

Seems to me that each time you roll down the runway for take off you should be starting a new sortie.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Traveler on April 16, 2011, 03:52:12 PM
In Viet Nam we did hot pad refueling when traveling cross country. No engine shut down just stick the fuel hose in the tank and fill er up. It was considered one sortie as I remember it.                     This was on UH-1N helicopter gun ships in the 20ths S.O.S. (Special Operations Squadron).

What year, you might have chauffeured my team Nov 67 through May 69.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 16, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
used hotpads ALL the time for base defence when flying a A20G

I wish the hot pad has a sound effect played with it.

I would change it to a nascar's sound of air wrenches, sounds of buzz saws and sledge hammers hitting metal. Maby with mixed human voices yelling things like "common get that ammo in faster, where the heck's that fuel truck!?" 28 seconds later end the sound clip with "GO GO GO!" Punch it and hit wep and off ye go.  :rock


-sighs- i love the A20G
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Dichotomy on April 16, 2011, 06:00:00 PM
best suggestion EVER!!!!  :aok
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: FiLtH on April 16, 2011, 10:15:59 PM
  It just takes too long. Id rather land, re-up.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Getback on April 16, 2011, 10:25:49 PM
Think of it as mid-air refueling.

I enjoy rearming. It's a great feature of the game. Then the takeoffs are fun in themselves.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: icepac on April 17, 2011, 12:54:08 AM
How else would you see a 163 on a front line field?
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: oboe on April 17, 2011, 07:07:59 AM
  It just takes too long. Id rather land, re-up.

That's probably why they don't start a new sortie after using hotpad - that's the only difference between using the rearm pad and getting a new plane.   Without the ability to rearm during same sortie, there'd be no reason for the rearm pads.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: SWkiljoy on April 17, 2011, 04:37:10 PM
used hotpads ALL the time for base defence when flying a A20G

I wish the hot pad has a sound effect played with it.

I would change it to a nascar's sound of air wrenches, sounds of buzz saws and sledge hammers hitting metal. Maby with mixed human voices yelling things like "common get that ammo in faster, where the heck's that fuel truck!?" 28 seconds later end the sound clip with "GO GO GO!" Punch it and hit wep and off ye go.  :rock
+1!   :rock
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Razzor 479th on April 17, 2011, 05:00:25 PM
How else would you see a 163 on a front line field?

Hmmm, I didn't think 163's could hotpad and then taxi on a landing skid.   :confused:
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: GNucks on April 17, 2011, 05:08:11 PM
Hmmm, I didn't think 163's could hotpad and then taxi on a landing skid.   :confused:

Some guys keep their gear and bunny-hop from base to base until they reach the frontline before they drop it.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: icepac on April 17, 2011, 05:44:17 PM
If you're willing to make the substantial investment of time, there should be some sort of reward.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: GNucks on April 17, 2011, 05:45:41 PM
If you're willing to make the substantial investment of time, there should be some sort of reward.

I disagree. Having the plane on the frontline is reward enough in my opinion.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: phatzo on April 18, 2011, 12:30:04 AM
163s will keep their trolley below 200 mph and feet, dont quote me verbatim, the figures are about that, I'm not sure as I haven't done it in years. You can base hop to the front.
 :noid
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Debrody on April 18, 2011, 12:36:32 AM
The 163 can fly real far without refueling. Just throttle back to 1000 gph fuel consumption, and you can fly at 400mph for 20 mins. No rearm needed on the small maps. I would be curious how you can take off a 163 manually  :devil
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: phatzo on April 18, 2011, 12:52:34 AM
The 163 can fly real far without refueling. Just throttle back to 1000 gph fuel consumption, and you can fly at 400mph for 20 mins. No rearm needed on the small maps. I would be curious how you can take off a 163 manually  :devil
Try it, if only just for chits and giggles, even better hop it to their 163 base.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Shuffler on April 18, 2011, 10:10:36 AM
My sorties end when the tree says so...... most of the time. :)
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Tigger29 on April 18, 2011, 10:40:50 AM
The 163 can fly real far without refueling. Just throttle back to 1000 gph fuel consumption, and you can fly at 400mph for 20 mins. No rearm needed on the small maps. I would be curious how you can take off a 163 manually  :devil

I've done it.. and been accused of cheating for it.  It's real simple.. don't "raise" the gear (which makes it drop from the plane like a drop tank) and you can land at every other base or so and refuel.  I've had mine up to close to 300MPH and 8K with keeping the gear intact.  Your fuel economy is HORRIBLE with the gear still attached though.

It's a blast to get a group of guys together for this!  I landed three kills by diving into a large furrball in my 163 last time I did it.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: icepac on April 19, 2011, 12:20:36 AM
You can fly it 5 sectors and arrive at a horde at 10k with 4 minutes of fuel for high enough power settings to carve the horde apart.

The hopping is tough and you nearly run out of fuel on some hops if there is a mountain in the way.

I did get one to take off after I powered it on the skid to the hotpad but it took 50% of the fuel and an agonizing amount of grinding along the field while changing trim and elevator to get it over the hump and start accelerating.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Nypsy on April 19, 2011, 05:53:45 AM
What year, you might have chauffeured my team Nov 67 through May 69.

December of 71 thru May of 73 when the 20th closed shop and moved to Hurlburt Field in FL. Hurburt Field is where Jimmy Doolittle and his men prcticed their carrier takoffs btw.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Babalonian on April 19, 2011, 01:43:53 PM
used hotpads ALL the time for base defence when flying a A20G

I wish the hot pad has a sound effect played with it.

I would change it to a nascar's sound of air wrenches, sounds of buzz saws and sledge hammers hitting metal. Maby with mixed human voices yelling things like "common get that ammo in faster, where the heck's that fuel truck!?" 28 seconds later end the sound clip with "GO GO GO!" Punch it and hit wep and off ye go.  :rock


-sighs- i love the A20G



I wouldn't mind hearing some hatch fidgeting, clinking, banging, bumping or rattling of ammo belts being fed in the whole 30-second we sit there waiting.  Run to the suggestions forum with this idea, definetley.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: MaSonZ on April 19, 2011, 01:54:10 PM

I wouldn't mind hearing some hatch fidgeting, clinking, banking, bumping or rattling of ammo belts being fed in the whole 30-second we sit there waiting.  Run to the suggestions forum with this idea, definetley.
deffinitly. would make me hot pad more often just to hear the sound effects.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: icepac on April 19, 2011, 02:16:10 PM
Maybe a crewchief yelling at you to watch the manifold pressure.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Babalonian on April 19, 2011, 03:19:55 PM
For those young gun-ho yank pilots sure, but maybe a little Schultz clip for the irons drivers, and something with a little more bravado for the Russian and Italian drivers?   :D  :aok  Maybe something different for those that prefer to let the swabies touch their aircraft?  Oh the possibilities...
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: MaSonZ on April 19, 2011, 03:40:04 PM
For those young gun-ho yank pilots sure, but maybe a little Schultz clip for the irons drivers, and something with a little more bravado for the Russian and Italian drivers?   :D  :aok  Maybe something different for those that prefer to let the swabies touch their aircraft?  Oh the possibilities...
+1.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: GNucks on April 19, 2011, 04:00:57 PM
For those young gun-ho yank pilots sure, but maybe a little Schultz clip for the irons drivers, and something with a little more bravado for the Russian and Italian drivers?   :D  :aok  Maybe something different for those that prefer to let the swabies touch their aircraft?  Oh the possibilities...

That sounds like something that is better suited for a custom sound pack in my opinion. Say every aircraft could have it's own "hotpad.wav"?
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: MaSonZ on April 19, 2011, 04:22:26 PM
That sounds like something that is better suited for a custom sound pack in my opinion. Say every aircraft could have it's own "hotpad.wav"?
+1
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 19, 2011, 04:34:05 PM
 :rock

well,someone post it. :P
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: STEELE on April 20, 2011, 06:01:12 AM
Maybe a crewchief yelling at you to watch the manifold pressure.
   :rofl
I see those stretched out throttle stops! 
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Ping on April 20, 2011, 07:24:04 AM
Posted in Wishlist with credit given to BaDkaRmA158Th
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: LLogann on April 20, 2011, 07:53:16 AM
Yeah that's about right... With full throttle you can get up in the 300 range even with the wheels and skid plate extended, however bringing the throttle down to say 2500 gph, you'll only get ~233 IAS.  And if you want to fly right, you've got to try and climb while not burning more than say 2000 the first 5 minutes.  Crappy way to travel. 

163s will keep their trolley below 200 mph and feet, dont quote me verbatim, the figures are about that, I'm not sure as I haven't done it in years. You can base hop to the front.
 :noid
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Gaidin on April 20, 2011, 10:53:04 AM
Its alot of fun to do.  I have done it once and had a blast.  All you see on 200 is HTH did they get a 163 here!!
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Slade on April 23, 2011, 09:22:16 AM
Quote
It just takes too long. Id rather land, re-up.

After all the responses it seems if one is consumed with score just re-upping quickly will not be adequate.

The 163 method is brilliant.  :aok

I can't drive my plane on the ground so I think I'll simply just re-up after I land.  Someone else can count my score.  I got planes to kill and a squad assist, don't have unlimited time to play this game.  To each his own.

Thanks again for all the comments.  Learned a lot.  :salute
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: BoilerDown on April 23, 2011, 11:21:00 AM
If I only have one kill and no damage, I'll use the rearm pad.  One, I get a head start on getting my name in lights, which makes me look like one of the cool kids.  But more importantly, I do it to maintain the skill of taxiing the airplane and getting to the rearm without wrecking, and taking off without auto-takeoff.  Because in scenarios, I need this skill.  Yeah its slower, but for me its something I need to practice doing or I won't be able to when it counts.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: 321BAR on April 23, 2011, 11:34:05 AM
In Viet Nam we did hot pad refueling when traveling cross country. No engine shut down just stick the fuel hose in the tank and fill er up. It was considered one sortie as I remember it.                     This was on UH-1N helicopter gun ships in the 20ths S.O.S. (Special Operations Squadron).
:headscratch:
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: grizz441 on April 23, 2011, 02:06:39 PM
Using the rearm pad is fun.  For those of us that enjoy the challenge of landing lots of kills and beating personal bests, it lets you "risk" your sortie for the chance of higher success.  It's incredible how it wears on you when you are approaching a record or a personal best.
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Slade on April 23, 2011, 04:37:48 PM
321bar and griz441.  More power to ya.  :aok

Don't take my comments as being condescending or the like.  Not my intent at all.  

I think diversity in how we play the game makes it better.  It also may be true that the manner in which AH has written this software, to allow such diversity, both attracts new users and retains veteran users.

Rock on!
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: 321BAR on April 25, 2011, 06:11:16 AM
321bar and griz441.  More power to ya.  :aok

Don't take my comments as being condescending or the like.  Not my intent at all.  

I think diversity in how we play the game makes it better.  It also may be true that the manner in which AH has written this software, to allow such diversity, both attracts new users and retains veteran users.

Rock on!
you got me wrong... in my quote... 20ths  S.O.S.??? info please
Title: Re: Hot Pad vs. Sortie
Post by: Babalonian on April 25, 2011, 05:54:11 PM
Using the rearm pad is fun.  For those of us that enjoy the challenge of landing lots of kills and beating personal bests, it lets you "risk" your sortie for the chance of higher success.  It's incredible how it wears on you when you are approaching a record or a personal best.

... and then finally get picked while on the pad by a ____."   :D