Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuffler on April 21, 2011, 03:05:14 PM
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Nissan Leaf.... they are kidding right?? Nope!!
What kind of idiots dole out these awards. :rofl
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There is one thing that I find very funny about "electric" cars....do people realize even if all cars went electric and we stopped using gasoline, you will have to produce more power to charge everyones cars in the world, which is going to be just as much if not more emissions.
-BigBOBCH
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There is one thing that I find very funny about "electric" cars....do people realize even if all cars went electric and we stopped using gasoline, you will have to produce more power to charge everyones cars in the world, which is going to be just as much if not more emissions.
-BigBOBCH
I think once you show them the calculations and how you arrived on that conclusion, they will understand. I do agree with you though. They are as uninformed as the people claiming that it will lead to the same or more emissions. Is it possible? Sure. Is it possible that someone like you or I was able to do the research and come to your conclusion using facts? Nop! :lol
What I find funny is that both sides just take the word a person they support only because that person seems to support their uninformed positions and some how what that person/organization/government says becomes the "truth". Then they go on to preach that truth and claim that they completely understand the subject while calling the other side names :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Narwhals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc)
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Don't they think it's a tad late for an April Fools joke?
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once you show them the calculations and how you arrived on that conclusion
I'd be interested to see that too.
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Nissan Leaf.... they are kidding right?? Nope!!
What kind of idiots dole out these awards. :rofl
the same ones that gave a certain someone the nobel peace prize? :noid :noid
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There is one thing that I find very funny about "electric" cars....do people realize even if all cars went electric and we stopped using gasoline, you will have to produce more power to charge everyones cars in the world, which is going to be just as much if not more emissions.
-BigBOBCH
i keep trying to tell my "green" friends this...and they always have some sort of answer. usually not a very good one though.
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i got an idea...We can tap heat from the sun to boil water and make electricity to charge batteries to use for transportation. then we use the extra heat gained from the sun to eliminate all the excess cold above 35 degrees north. now my batteries will be as reliable as combustion engines year round. awesome.
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Yeah our power company just got bought out by PG&E or what ever they go by and our bill shot up by 30%... I don't think I want to give those blood suckers the $ to charge my car any more than I really feel like paying the crappy oil companies for gas. Anybody have a horse for sale? :) Oh wait I can't do that either because horses fart and pollute the air as well... Hmmm I guess I'm screwed lol.
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Nissan leaf? Some 30 yr. old yuppie who hung on his professors every word ....and incapable of making his own decisions
that's who prolly decided the Leaf was the bomb!
What ever happened to common sense? Independant thinking and making up ones own mind?
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So does anyone actually have any studies or figures to support that what redman said is true? I am genuinely interested to see these if they exist.
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:lol no of course not.
which is more thermodynamically efficient: a power station or a car's petrol engine?
which is cheaper to transport over 100s of miles: 1KW of electricity or 1KW of petrol?
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assuming the increased demand for electricity will be feed from only burning fossil fuels. sure it makes sense.
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Interesting viewpoints, both of you.
I've heard that the production process for the cars themselves generates a lot of 'nasties' that you would rather not have floating around in the environment (NB I'm not making a global warming claim here, I'm just saying that polluting is bad), perhaps that would skew it in favour of your typical non-green car...who knows? :)
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:lol no of course not.
which is more thermodynamically efficient: a power station or a car's petrol engine?
which is cheaper to transport over 100s of miles: 1KW of electricity or 1KW of petrol?
but, how much energy is need to do the same amount of work? crabploa whos got a calculator? :headscratch:
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Nissan Leaf.... they are kidding right?? Nope!!
What kind of idiots dole out these awards. :rofl
My cousin is buying that car! AND SO AM I! :lol :D
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What i find hilarious is that these electro-junkies dont realize its a gas powered turbine generator that makes the electricity that charges their electric cars.WTG Tree Huggers...ROFLMAO!
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What i find hilarious is that these electro-junkies dont realize its a gas powered turbine generator that makes the electricity that charges their electric cars.WTG Tree Huggers...ROFLMAO!
Some use solar panels :)
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assuming the increased demand for electricity will be feed from only burning fossil fuels. sure it makes sense.
doesn't matter how the electricity is produced.
supply and demand. if the demand goes up, so will the price. oh yea.....and isn't our grid kinda out of date already?
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:lol no of course not.
which is more thermodynamically efficient: a power station or a car's petrol engine?
which is cheaper to transport over 100s of miles: 1KW of electricity or 1KW of petrol?
This. The electric car haters don't think things through very far at all.
Also, its generally a good thing not to give billions to our enemies. Like we do with oil. I'd much rather make Germany and Japan rich than the middle east, at least they share our values.
Edit: Oil is only responsible for 40% of our electricity production. The other 60% comes from other sources, mostly domestic. So anyone that says: "What i find hilarious is that these electro-junkies dont realize its a gas powered turbine generator that makes the electricity that charges their electric cars. WTG Tree Huggers...ROFLMAO!" isn't considering that the majority of the electricity to power electric cars won't be sourced from oil, and that electricity production and distribution is far more efficient than oil and gasoline.
Electric car haters are still just plain wrong.
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This. The electric car haters don't think things through very far at all.
Also, its generally a good thing not to give billions to our enemies. Like we do with oil. I'd much rather make Germany and Japan rich than the middle east, at least they share our values.
where do you think we get lithium and nimh batteries?
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where do you think we get lithium and nimh batteries?
Sunderland, England; Kanagawa prefecture, Japan; and Smyrna, Tennessee.
http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1033848_2011-nissan-leaf-batteries
Haters are still wrong.
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Sunderland, England; Kanagawa prefecture, Japan; and Smyrna, Tennessee.
http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1033848_2011-nissan-leaf-batteries
Haters are still wrong.
don't forget china.
and it's not a hate thing. it's a common sense thing.
can i drive from nj to nc on a single charge? or even just to va? hell.....can i drive from snj to nnj on a single charge? can i recharge those batteries in 3 minutes, and go that same distance again?
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I really hate the Prius..... and those who tend to drive them. This BBC test even shows how they get worse mileage than a BMW M3 sporting a 414 horsepower V8.
And Race between a Ferrari 599, Lamborghini Murcielago, Mercedes McLaren, Aston Martin DBS and Audi R8 but each car is given just 1 gallon of fuel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w
In my opinion, there are two very good things that are commonly overlooked about electric motors.
1. You can always tow a generator if you need to.
2. 100% torque is achieved the instant current is applied.
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Electric cars can be more energy efficient in the grand scheme then gas piston cars. It all depends on how the electricity is produced.
Remember that internal combustion engines are only 30-35% efficient at best. eg. 70% of the energy in a gallon of gas is just wasted as heat. Whereas some combined-cycle fossil fuel fired power plants are up to 50% efficient, most are the same as car engines though. Wind and solar are even less efficient, however their energy sources are not hydrocarbons, so they leave less air pollution if they are used long enough to recoup the initial energy cost of their manufacturing.
Problem with electric cars right now is that:
1) They are just not very practical, especially for people like me in rural areas. When you have to drive 100 miles to the grocery store, a car that only goes less then 200 miles on a charge, and takes several hours to recharge is completely worthless. Of course this will improve with better battery technology.
2) There is a significant environmental cost to the mining, extraction and refining, of the materials that go into every car. However with electric cars the initial cost is higher due to the batteries. The theory is that they will be more friendly in the long run because of their greater efficiency, but again, that all depends on how the electricity is generated.
3) The electrical infrastructure would need huge upgrades to handle the load if everybody started plugging their cars in. ***I know, I know according to the electric car lobby our current power grid "could" handle it if everybody only ever charged their car in the middle of the night. But I call BS on that.*** In reality our current power grid could not handle it. Not everyone is gonna be perfect about charging only during off peak hours. Remember rolling blackouts in CA and AZ from everyone running their air conditioner in the summer, guess what, people drive a lot in the summer too? Imagine the rolling blackouts busy holiday seasons when everyone is charging their car to go on vacation, AND they have their AC going because it's 100°. So what kind of generators do we build to power our electric cars, Coal, Oil, Hydroelectric, Nuclear, Solar, Windfarm??? Every one of them has it's drawbacks and disadvantages, and remember NIMBY syndrome, there are few who want a power plant (or oil drill) in their back yard.
Also what about power outages, in some rural areas, they happen quite frequently. What do you do, call your boss. "Sorry I can't make it to work today because the power was out last night so my car is dead."
So no... I don't think pure electric cars are a good idea. A better solution IMO would be better hybrid technology, with diesels. I mean current diesel cars already get better mileage then gasoline hybrids, so why not make a diesel/electric hybrid. They've been doing it on trains for many years.
Hydrogen technology seems neat too, but it has a long way to go before it is practical as well.
Bottom line, there is no simple solution, there is no "free" energy, it all has advantages and drawbacks. I don't think electric cars are the great Satan like some do. Nor do I think they are the panacea to all our energy problems like others. There are gullible people, marketing gimmicks and ridiculous propaganda on both sides of the issue, although I think there is quite a bit more on one side.... :bolt:
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don't forget china.
China will not make a Li-Ion that goes into an mass produced electric car in a long long time. China makes cheap batteries good for flashlights but far too unsafe for putting into vehicles. Safe Lithium-based batteries take more complex processes and that's why Nissan isn't making their batteries there.
and it's not a hate thing. it's a common sense thing.
can i drive from nj to nc on a single charge? or even just to va? hell.....can i drive from snj to nnj on a single charge? can i recharge those batteries in 3 minutes, and go that same distance again?
In Israel and Denmark they are rolling out battery swap stations that swap spent batteries with fresh ones, and it should work in less time than it takes to fill a gas tank.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Tech/2011/0419/Better-Place-Turning-Israel-into-electric-car-country
http://www.fastcompany.com/1709616/better-place-teams-up-with-renault
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The company I work is investing in the future of electric cars. Lets face it guys, if the electric car industry can get an electric car to surpass the 300mi mark, ability to fast charge, and a standard charging plug. They will be come main stream. And believe me there are many companies working on it feverishly around the world. They are still very early in figuring all of this out. In the beginning of the ICE I'm sure the augments between a horse and automobile were the same.
If you think about the possibilities of clean energy, its actually a good thing. Solar, Wind, water...all clean energy sources. All could be semi free if you really sit down and think about it. Naturally while all of the technologies are in their infancy they seem expensive, but the prices will go down.
And by no means am I earth loving hippie freak. I would rather not depend on foreign oil since some people in a little tiny district said we can't drill in Alaska and other parts of the country.
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I don't care if my farfegnugen come from gas, diesel or electricity. All I care about is that progress is actually progress. Much of what is put forth as "clean" or "efficient" isn't really much better then the status quo. The only difference is that the end user can feel good about themselves because they are far removed from the "dirty" process of electrical production. Electric cars, at this point in the game, are just another bandwagon for greenies to jump on.
The thermal efficiency of a coal plant is about the same as a small 4-stroke engine (33%) and gas plants approach 50%. Where is the dramatic difference? Is it worth all the expense and energy to produce a car that has, according to Nissan's figures, a 70-100 mile range and a questionable battery life? Sure they say it will last 10 years, but they admit its capacity will be as low as 70% of new by then, a whopping 49-70 mile range. If anyone is going to drive this thing anywhere near as often as a straight ICE or even a hybrid these batteries won't hold up. Especially since Nissan saw fit to save money by NOT including thermal regulation. Let's see these baby's survive in Arizona, California or any other hot climate. The way I see it is this, if cars 'X' and 'Y' both cost 'Z' Dollars, and car X can only drive me half the distance in its lifetime as car Y, which is more efficient?
There are a number of existing and, frankly, old technologies that exist that could improve on an ICE's efficiency. Build a hybrid with a two-stroke turbo Diesel and you'd have amazing efficiency (btw, that's how trains and ships often do it and at 50+% efficiency to boot). Ford is currently producing a line of Direct-Injection turbo motors that are very efficient and very powerful and very clean at the same time. Other companies are following suite. The ICE has not yet begun to fight in terms of efficiency.
Does the electric car have a future? I doubt it. Simply because electrical production and transportation is already overstressed in many areas and the means of production aren't much better than letting each individual car do it on it's own. Do I really care? No. Like I stated earlier, give me some REAL progress and I'll get that tingly sensation running up my leg.
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wasn't there a guy not too long ago that got like 400hp and 100mpg out of his mustang? I think he was using selective cylinders and a few other things but still, if true, that is quite impressive.
And lets not forget Mickey Thompson's Fiero
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The amount of energy used to produce a car (mining, refining, transport, manufacturing etc.) is vastly more than the energy used to run it (petrol, electricity) for its lifetime. So you are being far kinder to the enviroment if you run your existing gas guzzling car until the wheels fall off it than if you swap it for a brand new eco car.
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China will not make a Li-Ion that goes into an mass produced electric car in a long long time. China makes cheap batteries good for flashlights but far too unsafe for putting into vehicles. Safe Lithium-based batteries take more complex processes and that's why Nissan isn't making their batteries there.
In Israel and Denmark they are rolling out battery swap stations that swap spent batteries with fresh ones, and it should work in less time than it takes to fill a gas tank.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/Tech/2011/0419/Better-Place-Turning-Israel-into-electric-car-country
http://www.fastcompany.com/1709616/better-place-teams-up-with-renault
check this link.
http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/byP/batP/batt/btora/bType/lion/byB/mfg/byGeo/byC/byC.shtml
i'd like to see that setup..the swapout you mentioned..........but i'm also kinda doubtful it'll work here to be honest. they'd have to do major redesigns of the battery installs for one, to facilitate the swap.
secondly, mining the materials for the batteries, the hazards of disposing of bad batteries, etc.
unless they've changed significantly, i think the average lifespan of nimh, and lithium batteries are only 3 to 5 years, although i could be wrong on this one.
when it comes down to it, electric isn't going to be the utopia that it's mad out to be. it would be nice if it were, but it can't.
if they do continue this push though, it'll make me glad i'm looking at a backup generator for home though, as i don't wanna be caught without electricity when we start getting brown outs, and black outs around here.
oh yea...and finally.......swapping the battery packs in a couple of minutes? after going 200 miles or less? still no go in my mind. even my v-8 dakota can go over 300 miles on a tank on the highway....well over.
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wasn't there a guy not too long ago that got like 400hp and 100mpg out of his mustang? I think he was using selective cylinders and a few other things but still, if true, that is quite impressive.
And lets not forget Mickey Thompson's Fiero
he was doing that for one of the automotive "x-prize" competitions.
here's an older link....
http://www.thegreenmotorist.com/index.php/x-prize-fox-body-mustang-best-of-sema-2008/
i don't think this one was true though.
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Since the sun is made from coal and is 500 miles from Earth. We could hook a giant turbine to
it and plug it in to the Space Station. Have it tethered to a super long 3 prong (grounded of course)
extension cord.
<S> Oz
Oh Brother :aok
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"Best Of" lists are designed to sell periodicals.
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Since the sun is made from coal and is 500 miles from Earth. We could hook a giant turbine to
it and plug it in to the Space Station. Have it tethered to a super long 3 prong (grounded of course)
extension cord.
<S> Oz
Oh Brother :aok
classic!!! :aok :aok :rofl
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There is one thing that I find very funny about "electric" cars....do people realize even if all cars went electric and we stopped using gasoline, you will have to produce more power to charge everyones cars in the world, which is going to be just as much if not more emissions.
-BigBOBCH
Maybe not emissions directly but we can't get out more that we put in.
If we gasoline to generate the electricity then yes I would be way more emissions. 1hp = .75 Kw so it would be much more efficient to put it straight to the wheels via transmission. If you take a 1hp gasoline generator you get less than .75 kw. plus the loss in transmitting lines, plus loss in charging batteries plus loss powering electric motor. plus loss in any other components. Simple Simon says it is a loss.
However coal and natural gas are more efficient.,
Here is how the efficiency calculation plays out (thanks to Grose). Start with a natural gas power plant running at 60 percent efficiency. Figure that 7 percent of the power gets lost in transmission. So the power coming to a residential outlet is about 55% efficient.
Now figure that 95 percent of the electricity makes it into the lithium battery – overall efficiency drops to 53 percent.
The final piece of the calculation is the car’s electric motor, which runs 90 percent efficient. The overall efficiency of an electric car is therefore 48 percent.
The efficiency of an automobile running on gasoline is 25 percent. A significant difference!
Working in the favor of electric cars is an energy efficient engine
The efficiency of an electric car drops to 32 percent if it relies on energy coming from a less efficient coal-fired plant (only 40 percent efficient).
You would still have to plug in the numbers for energy differences in building the cars and maintenance over the life of the autos.
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:lol
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The advantage of owning an electric car only applies to now.........before a substantial portion of the population starts plugging in and the power companies raise prices...........kind of like back in 1997 when you were first in town to get a cablemodem and didn't have any neighbors nearby using cable internet.
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i keep trying to tell my "green" friends this...and they always have some sort of answer. usually not a very good one though.
CAP, I tell you this as a friend. Don;t ask that question. It only shows how clueless, uninformed, and stubborn you can be. It makes you look bad.
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They can make cars out of electricity now? Good thing cause all the oil they were using to build them before was draining the earth dry. :bolt:
Seriously though, the emissions reduction would be a good thing.
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I don't know why people focus so hard on reduced emissions. That's a positive side effect, not the reason we're doing this. Also its not clear just how much of a benefit that will be.
The reason to go electric is to reduce our demand for foreign oil. That's the big one.
If we don't reduce our demand for oil, prices are only going to get worse and worse. The price dips will be shallower and shorter, and the price hikes will be higher and higher and last longer, the further into the future we go. No amount of drilling of domestic oil, based on how much domestic oil there is to be had, is going to change that. People 20 years from now will look fondly upon the days of $3 gallons, and that's with adjusting for future inflation.
As for "oh this will make electricity prices go up"... sorry, that's a load of crap. Might they go up? Maybe a little, but there will be a LOT of downward pressure to make sure that they don't go up anywhere near the amount oil is most definitely going to go up. Because its a lot easier to generate electricity than to find more oil. There's a lot more competition to produce electricity, and its all domestic (or from Canada). Electricity prices aren't going anywhere truth be told, even with a massive sudden rollout of electric cars, which isn't how its going to happen anyways. It'll be a slow gradual transition, and many vehicles won't be suitable for electric power for quite some time. The electric grid won't even notice.
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The advantage of owning an electric car only applies to now.........before a substantial portion of the population starts plugging in and the power companies raise prices...........kind of like back in 1997 when you were first in town to get a cablemodem and didn't have any neighbors nearby using cable internet.
That's one of the worst analogies you can mention. High speed internet sucked back then. Just straight up sucked. And I paid twice as much for one quarter of the speed I'm getting now. For either DSL or Cable Modem, not even going back to IDSN days. Actually now that I think about it, your analogy does much more to disprove your point than to prove it.
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The reason to go electric is to reduce our demand for foreign oil. That's the big one.
I don;t think so. Imagine being the only country or one of the very few countries that have oil. Imagine a world where only the US has oil. Absolute power over the planet right? So, how do we get there? Lock our wells down and use every one else s first would be one way. But, you can;t say that you are doing that or the world will stop selling to you so we call on reasons like protecting forests, fish, bears, elk etc. The average guy buys it, some people moan about it, and yes it costs a lot of money. But during the buying process, even though it is expensive, you gain some "friends" (no one wants to loose a good customer) and in the end, if it does come down to that, the US gains control of the planet.
Of coarse, it may never happen. Oil may never run out or a better source of energy may be found. But what if it does? Its a good plan and it does not cost as much as we think. Most of the money you pay at the pump stays in the US or some US controlled company and the rest in a world economy. hard to sell things if the buyers are broke eh? Also, replace the US with a league of a few select nations and the plan makes more sense.
Personally, I could care less about being dependent on oil or not. But I do care about what me and my kids are breathing every day.
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CAP, I tell you this as a friend. Don;t ask that question. It only shows how clueless, uninformed, and stubborn you can be. It makes you look bad.
i'm not sure what you mean by "don't ask that question".
and yes, i am stubborn....never said i wasn't.......possibly a little uninformed, but more than likely not as much as some think......and absolutely positively beyond a doubt, not clueless.
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1) I just saw Jack on the news. Seems he was filling up his Volt and it started raining. Services will be this weekend.
2) Good news on the Volt...... it's small enough that he can be buried in it. :)
3) ring ring..... Hello...... Boss it's me Ralph, I'll be very late today as I plugged in the car last night but evidently kicked a breaker.
4) I'll be late for the meeting. My car would not go so the wrecker is towing it to Golf Carts R Us.
5) I'm headed to the track... just installed my 0000 wire and can't wait to test it out.
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i'm not sure what you mean by "don't ask that question".
and yes, i am stubborn....never said i wasn't.......possibly a little uninformed, but more than likely not as much as some think......and absolutely positively beyond a doubt, not clueless.
Can't make it any more clear than that. You ask that question and you come across the way I mentioned.
Once again though, I have no idea why people are against electric cars. If someone wants to use them why not? If they don't that fine too. We cannot even tolerate each other driving different cars in this country. No wonder politics and religion are band from this BBS. :lol
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Can't make it any more clear than that. You ask that question and you come across the way I mentioned.
Once again though, I have no idea why people are against electric cars. If someone wants to use them why not? If they don't that fine too. We cannot even tolerate each other driving different cars in this country. No wonder politics and religion are banned from this BBS. :lol
fixed
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fixed
Thank god! Oups, there goes the thread :uhoh
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Thank god! Oups, there goes the thread :uhoh
LLO
:lol
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Can't make it any more clear than that. You ask that question and you come across the way I mentioned.
Once again though, I have no idea why people are against electric cars. If someone wants to use them why not? If they don't that fine too. We cannot even tolerate each other driving different cars in this country. No wonder politics and religion are band from this BBS. :lol
dood.......
i like to go fast. there is nothing piston powered that would be faster than an electric powered car. i'd friggin LOVE it. IF....and that's a BIG if......they came up with a good long range easily, and efficiently rechargeable power source.
the only thing missing would be the engine noise....but i'd be happy to go "vroooooommmmmmmmm" as i'm accelerating away from the light.
the problem is that there is not any of the above yet....that i know of. the best electric cars would be hard pressed to just get me to north jersey from where i live in south jersey...and then i'd be stuck overnight whilst my car charges.
it simply isn't feasible yet.
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dood.......
i like to go fast. there is nothing piston powered that would be faster than an electric powered car. i'd friggin LOVE it. IF....and that's a BIG if......they came up with a good long range easily, and efficiently rechargeable power source.
the only thing missing would be the engine noise....but i'd be happy to go "vroooooommmmmmmmm" as i'm accelerating away from the light.
the problem is that there is not any of the above yet....that i know of. the best electric cars would be hard pressed to just get me to north jersey from where i live in south jersey...and then i'd be stuck overnight whilst my car charges.
it simply isn't feasible yet.
And therefore, no one else should have one? Or does this mean that the emissions from electric cars will be higher? What exactly are you answering? :confused:
I like going vrooooommmmm too, but I have no problems with my neighbor driving an electric car if he chooses to, nor do I ask him stupid questions to insult his intelligence or motives for buying one.
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And therefore, no one else should have one? Or does this mean that the emissions from electric cars will be higher? What exactly are you answering? :confused:
I like going vrooooommmmm too, but I have no problems with my neighbor driving an electric car if he chooses to, nor do I ask him stupid questions to insult his intelligence or motives for buying one.
i don't think i ever said no one else should drive them...........possibly you mis-interpreted something i typed?
i still do think there's gonna be a LOT that needs to be done before electric works well, and updating the grid is one of them. i could be wrong, but i tend to think that our power grid is massively out of date. if this is true.......it won't be long till plugging in to charge overloads it.........
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Can't make it any more clear than that. You ask that question and you come across the way I mentioned.
Once again though, I have no idea why people are against electric cars. If someone wants to use them why not? If they don't that fine too. We cannot even tolerate each other driving different cars in this country. No wonder politics and religion are band from this BBS. :lol
I sure don't have a problem as long as they stay out of the way and are towed off in a reasonable time frame. Folks should drive what they want. I see more issues with the little toy like smart cars. Death traps to the folks who drive them crazy like.
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That's one of the worst analogies you can mention. High speed internet sucked back then. Just straight up sucked. And I paid twice as much for one quarter of the speed I'm getting now. For either DSL or Cable Modem, not even going back to IDSN days. Actually now that I think about it, your analogy does much more to disprove your point than to prove it.
Sounds like your infrastructure was not good from the beginning.
In washington D.C. area, early cable speeds were crazy fast........until the runs in your area became more populated with subscribers.
Then they slowed down greatly as well as having uneven latency.
But what do I know.........I'm just a MCSE from 1997 and a nissan, toyota, and lexus master technician certified in both hybrids and the new nissan leaf.
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I sure don't have a problem as long as they stay out of the way and are towed off in a reasonable time frame. Folks should drive what they want. I see more issues with the little toy like smart cars. Death traps to the folks who drive them crazy like.
i've not seen too many of those smart cars needing towing yet...........
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i don't think i ever said no one else should drive them...........possibly you mis-interpreted something i typed?
i still do think there's gonna be a LOT that needs to be done before electric works well, and updating the grid is one of them. i could be wrong, but i tend to think that our power grid is massively out of date. if this is true.......it won't be long till plugging in to charge overloads it.........
Electric works well now. All you need is diesels to power up the generators. Most all train locomotives are good working examples. :D
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Electric works well now. All you need is diesels to power up the generators. Most all train locomotives are good working examples. :D
Yep, must a be a reason they use the diesel engines to power the generators that drive the train instead of using the diesel engines directly.
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Yep, must a be a reason they use the diesel engines to power the generators that drive the train instead of using the diesel engines directly.
Nothing has the power, torque and smooth traction like the electric motor. The weight issue is a plus in the locomotives line of duty. In automobiles it is a major negative.
As Cap said.... no efficiency yet though.
The only successful method now is DE.
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Let’s face it, electric cars are the future. Yes they are expensive, but that will change quickly with increased volume and higher oil prices.
An electric car is basically batteries, an inverter, and a motor/generator. The maintenance on them will be almost nothing. They will eliminate the (gas powered) engine, transmission, all the junk supporting the engine, gas tank, a heavy duty power train, heavy duty brakes, and a heavy duty frame to support engine/torque.
The only thing electric cars will need to add in the future is extra crumple zones.
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1) I just saw Jack on the news. Seems he was filling up his Volt and it started raining. Services will be this weekend.
2) Good news on the Volt...... it's small enough that he can be buried in it. :)
3) ring ring..... Hello...... Boss it's me Ralph, I'll be very late today as I plugged in the car last night but evidently kicked a breaker.
4) I'll be late for the meeting. My car would not go so the wrecker is towing it to Golf Carts R Us.
5) I'm headed to the track... just installed my 0000 wire and can't wait to test it out.
sakjsfkjdzj
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Maybe I don't understand how am electric motor works, but I don't see transmissions going anywhere in cars since I can't see how you could run them on a single gear.
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1) I just saw Jack on the news. Seems he was filling up his Volt and it started raining. Services will be this weekend.
2) Good news on the Volt...... it's small enough that he can be buried in it. :)
3) ring ring..... Hello...... Boss it's me Ralph, I'll be very late today as I plugged in the car last night but evidently kicked a breaker.
4) I'll be late for the meeting. My car would not go so the wrecker is towing it to Golf Carts R Us.
5) I'm headed to the track... just installed my 0000 wire and can't wait to test it out.
you mean he's waiting on the electric tow truck that can't get there, 'cause someone forgot to plug it in overnight?
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Maybe I don't understand how am electric motor works, but I don't see transmissions going anywhere in cars since I can't see how you could run them on a single gear.
electric motors have almost instantaneous torque, and given proper power(electricity) can not be beat. they can drive the wheels directly, although more than likely they'll need a transmission if they were to continue to drive a car as we now do with gas engines,.
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Electric motors have full torque at zero rpms up to whatever limit is determined by the design.
Can't rev beyond that limit with much efficiency.
This is why the lexus hybrids have multiple speeds in the "cvt"......which really isn't a cvt but more a modified automatic transmission.
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Electric motors have full torque at zero rpms up to whatever limit is determined by the design.
Can't rev beyond that limit with much efficiency.
This is why the lexus hybrids have multiple speeds in the "cvt"......which really isn't a cvt but more a modified automatic transmission.
and if i recall, they also have lots of problems with those trannys.......
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lol, I am telling you. This place would be heaven for Foxworthy :rofl
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lol, I am telling you. This place would be heaven for Foxworthy :rofl
HE'D get more ammo over at fw. :devil
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lol, I am telling you. This place would be heaven for Foxworthy :rofl
Ah got a electric car and have parked it on jacks in thu front yard. I forgot I ain't got no lectricity in thu house yaet.
Dang lectric car.... saw that ol dear and hit the switch on ma 5 million watt qbeam and the car stopped dead in'er tracks.
Ah can't even park in ma driveway....2 mudholes in she spit some sparks and gave up the ghost.
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Ah got a electric car and have parked it on jacks in thu front yard. I forgot I ain't got no lectricity in thu house yaet.
Dang lectric car.... saw that ol dear and hit the switch on ma 5 million watt qbeam and the car stopped dead in'er tracks.
Ah can't even park in ma driveway....2 mudholes in she spit some sparks and gave up the ghost.
your joking there just brought up another point.
all of the estimates of range are(i would imagine) done under optimal conditions, with no accessorys turned on.
so.......imagine 2 different things. assume advertised range of 200 miles between charges.
1) summer time. it's 90F outside. you've got the radio cranked up, and the a/c running, fan blowing on high, set to recirculate. that draws a LOT of amperage. how much do we think that'll cut off of the range?
2) winter time. as we all know, batteries become weaker in colder weather. so it's 20F outside. you've got your heater cranked up on high(and i'd have to presume that the heating elements would be electric, as there won't be any antifreeze to provide heat inside the car anymore). fan on high. battery weak to begin with, due to the cold, and then drawing even more to create heat inside the car.
how much range do we think we'll lose to that?
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your joking there just brought up another point.
all of the estimates of range are(i would imagine) done under optimal conditions, with no accessorys turned on.
so.......imagine 2 different things. assume advertised range of 200 miles between charges.
1) summer time. it's 90F outside. you've got the radio cranked up, and the a/c running, fan blowing on high, set to recirculate. that draws a LOT of amperage. how much do we think that'll cut off of the range?
I don;t know. Why don;t you tell us? You seem to be the expert on why electric cars will not work.
2) winter time. as we all know, batteries become weaker in colder weather. so it's 20F outside. you've got your heater cranked up on high(and i'd have to presume that the heating elements would be electric, as there won't be any antifreeze to provide heat inside the car anymore). fan on high. battery weak to begin with, due to the cold, and then drawing even more to create heat inside the car.
how much range do we think we'll lose to that?
Same as above :lol
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Ah got a electric car and have parked it on jacks in thu front yard. I forgot I ain't got no lectricity in thu house yaet.
Dang lectric car.... saw that ol dear and hit the switch on ma 5 million watt qbeam and the car stopped dead in'er tracks.
Ah can't even park in ma driveway....2 mudholes in she spit some sparks and gave up the ghost.
:lol :aok
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One thing you guys are forgetting is that as electric cars get more popular, our ability to produce electricity will increase as well. It's not like tomorrow we will instantly all be driving electric cars and the output of the electrical grids will fail to accommodate us all... no that's not how it will work at all.
Think of it this way. It has taken 100 years for our current refueling infrastructure to build up to what it is now. Back in 1911 if there were suddenly millions of cars, everyone would have been screwed because no one would have been able to get gasoline, but it didn't happen that way, did it? No.. the number of cars gradually grew, and as a result the number of refueling stations (and the logistics that goes with it all) gradually grew and evolved to accommodate them.
Electric cars are no different. They will start small and gradually increase in numbers and popularity and as a result the electrical grids will gradually grow with them. By the time they get popular enough to threaten our current capacity, technology will evolve to produce more efficient means of producing electricity. As it is right now, we're sucking about as much blood as we can out of petroleum. Yes, yes I know that cars can be more efficient than they currently are but really.. even if the average mileage of each car were to double, it's still only a 'band-aid' on the problem. We'd still need to buy or produce oil and refine it.. but my point is that our technology for using Gasoline has pretty much topped out. The design of the IC engine (for the most part) has changed very little in the last century so in order to evolve to the next step we have to change how the cars are powered.
And nobody is ever expecting electric cars to completely replace IC engines but you'd be foolish not to recognize that electric vehicles are perfectly sufficient for at least 80% of what we use cars for. For example, "grandma" who needs a car only to get to bingo and the grocery store every week would have no need for an IC engine. "Bob" who drives 25 miles to work and back every day would do just fine with an electric car. "Joe" who drives his car from city to city as a traveling salesman would NOT fare well with an electric car, unless he would want to take a four hour break every 200 miles. Personally, I would love an electric car to get to work and back every day with. My dad has an old Festiva sitting in the driveway with a blown engine and I plan on converting it eventually.. that could be a fun project to do!
Electric cars aren't necessarily slow either! I used to have an Escape Hybrid and no I wouldn't pay the price the new ones cost but I happened to get this one used with low mileage for about $8000 below bluebook. Why? Because the dealer that took it in as a trade in didn't notice it was a Hybrid! They quoted me a price based on its non-hybrid counterpart and by the time they realized their error, I was already there with a pen in hand to sign the papers! You should have seen the look on their faces when I asked if they could throw in some new tires!!! I was told "take it or leave it!" haha. Anyway, that thing could do up to 50mph in Electric mode only, and it was pretty snappy! The gas engine provided up to 150HP and the electric motor added 90! Get both working together and it was WAY quicker than the V6 models, and coming to a stop at red lights completely quiet with the engine off was almost therapeutic. Even driving her hard at times yielded 38MPG. Nothing miraculous but not bad for a four wheel drive SUV. It's a shame the ex- took it when she left me as I kind of miss it, but at least I didn't have to pay for it! But just think... an electric Festiva with a 90HP electric motor with INSTANT TORQUE AT ALL SPEEDS! She'd be a screamer!
Anyway, all of the points being made by the anti-electric folks simply aren't valid. Yes there are limitations on electric cars but those limitations only apply to maybe 10-20% of the drivers out there. Yes the electrical supply would not instantly supports millions of electric cars at once BUT since they will evolve gradually, so will the technology for producing electricity. Yes, electric cars are very expensive right now, but will come down in price as battery technology gets cheaper and more mass produced. Right now they are intentionally priced high not only so they don't sell too fast (to keep demand in par with supply) but also so that the manufacturers can recoup some of their R&D investments, as everyone is afraid of the whole California fiasco again (Who killed the electric car?).
I still have yet to see any valid anti-electric points to be made. And no I'm not one of those "green" hippies.. heck I don't even bother to recycle most of the time, but what I do know is that if I had to choose between paying $4/gallon (which will be split between the middle east and the big oil companies) or paying the equivalent of $1.00/gallon to my local electric company (that uses either nuclear power or locally mined coal).. then I'd MUCH rather pay the electric company. Of course I'm not quite willing to shell out $40,000 for a sub-compact car to do just that, but when that becomes affordable I'll be right there for it. The once or twice a year I might actually need an IC powered car I'll just rent one (or keep my old car maintained) and still come out WAY ahead. Even still if I DID shell out $40,000 for a car, the savings in gas and maintenance over the next few years would easily pay for the price difference.. so it's all about perspective.
As far as pollution and all that junk goes... well that technology will evolve hand-in-hand with electrical production technology. I'm not worried about it. That's not even part of my logic here right now.
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80%?? Not likely here in Texas. Just greater travel lengths and time. Many folks in Texas drive 100 miles to work and back.
Standard mileage is 12000 to 15000 per year. It is greater here.
Maybe your info would be close where things are more congested.
For the Grandma driving to bingo and the store once a week it may be great. For the city dweller it may be just the ticket.
For most all the folks I personally know...... no way.
If it works for you good deal.
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80%?? Not likely here in Texas. Just greater travel lengths and time. Many folks in Texas drive 100 miles to work and back.
Standard mileage is 12000 to 15000 per year. It is greater here.
Maybe your info would be close where things are more congested.
For the Grandma driving to bingo and the store once a week it may be great. For the city dweller it may be just the ticket.
For most all the folks I personally know...... no way.
If it works for you good deal.
:lol and because of that, we should all be driving F250s :lol God forbid we accept having others do anything different that what our little universe does.
You do understand that grandmas driving to bingo and city dwellers are the ones that need these things right? You do understand that big cities is where emissions are a problem right? If you are a farmer, electric may not be for you (but you are the minority). If you drive 100 miles to work you should be thankful that you may have the option to drive an electric if you choose to.
Can someone explain to me why people hate the idea so much?
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80%?? Not likely here in Texas. Just greater travel lengths and time. Many folks in Texas drive 100 miles to work and back.
Standard mileage is 12000 to 15000 per year. It is greater here.
Maybe your info would be close where things are more congested.
For the Grandma driving to bingo and the store once a week it may be great. For the city dweller it may be just the ticket.
For most all the folks I personally know...... no way.
If it works for you good deal.
mileage doesn't vary that much. here in south jersey, there are quite a few people that work in new york city. long trip. long time sitting waiting in traffic to cross the george washington bridge. then they get to deal with all of the nyc congestion.
a friend of mine works at mcguire afb. she does about 90 miles a day just for work......and then if she's plugged in up there, she'd be charging her car on the taxpayers dime, which i'm sure would open up a whole new can of worms.
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:lol and because of that, we should all be driving F250s :lol God forbid we accept having others do anything different that what our little universe does.
You do understand that grandmas driving to bingo and city dwellers are the ones that need these things right? You do understand that big cities is where emissions are a problem right? If you are a farmer, electric may not be for you (but you are the minority). If you drive 100 miles to work you should be thankful that you may have the option to drive an electric if you choose to.
Can someone explain to me why people hate the idea so much?
let em drive what they want......just don't try to push crap on the rest of us.
when they're good, reasonable, and worth it, i'll be one of the first in line to buy one.
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:lol and because of that, we should all be driving F250s :lol God forbid we accept having others do anything different that what our little universe does.
You do understand that grandmas driving to bingo and city dwellers are the ones that need these things right? You do understand that big cities is where emissions are a problem right? If you are a farmer, electric may not be for you (but you are the minority). If you drive 100 miles to work you should be thankful that you may have the option to drive an electric if you choose to.
Can someone explain to me why people hate the idea so much?
Emissions are only a problem in cities under certain types of weather patterns. The emmisions from all the vehicles in the US pails in comparison to emmissions from plants.
I never said I hate the idea of electric cars. They are just not for me.
.... and as I already stated... if it works for you good. I do see changes in electrical charges. They will, at some time, put a tax on electricity above and beyond what taxes you pay now. This will supplant the taxes on fuel for road and bridge repair. The taxes on fuel are high. I see no reason why they won't be high on electricity.
These are all just points being made. Use what works for you as long as I don't have to pay for it.
I drive a Chevy 2500 HD Crew Diesel, wife drives a Tahoe, oldest daughter a Tahoe.... youngest daughter a camaro.
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let em drive what they want......just don't try to push crap on the rest of us.
when they're good, reasonable, and worth it, i'll be one of the first in line to buy one.
Hmmm, someone pushed an electric on you? Sounds more like someone else is doing the pushing here.
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Hmmm, someone pushed an electric on you? Sounds more like someone else is doing the pushing here.
yea, 'cause we all know one has to push someone to do what they want. :devil :aok
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I drive a Chevy 2500 HD Crew Diesel, wife drives a Tahoe, oldest daughter a Tahoe.... youngest daughter a camaro.
Holy smokes! I'd sure hate to pay your gas card bill every month!
Really though if you can afford it and you don't mind paying to fuel up those vehicles then by all means do it! I have nothing against that.
But on the other hand, do you really need those vehicles? I mean your Diesel truck I'm sure gets used a lot and pays for itself and therefore can not be replaced, but do your wife and oldest daughter really need a Tahoe? Personally if it were up to me, my wife would be driving a minivan or a wagon (I refuse to use the term "Crossover"), and my daughters would have econo-boxes... maybe a Cobolt or a Cruze. (Actually mine would probably have a different brand but you're obviously a Chevy guy so I'll leave it at that).
Anyway I'm not saying this to try to push anything on you or to point fingers or anything.. after all it's your decision to make, I'm just saying.. in my case I would be GLAD to put the gasoline savings alone to better use by driving more efficient vehicles. Heck, it would probably pay for my vacation every year!
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Holy smokes! I'd sure hate to pay your gas card bill every month!
Really though if you can afford it and you don't mind paying to fuel up those vehicles then by all means do it! I have nothing against that.
But on the other hand, do you really need those vehicles? I mean your Diesel truck I'm sure gets used a lot and pays for itself and therefore can not be replaced, but do your wife and oldest daughter really need a Tahoe? Personally if it were up to me, my wife would be driving a minivan or a wagon (I refuse to use the term "Crossover"), and my daughters would have econo-boxes... maybe a Cobolt or a Cruze. (Actually mine would probably have a different brand but you're obviously a Chevy guy so I'll leave it at that).
Anyway I'm not saying this to try to push anything on you or to point fingers or anything.. after all it's your decision to make, I'm just saying.. in my case I would be GLAD to put the gasoline savings alone to better use by driving more efficient vehicles. Heck, it would probably pay for my vacation every year!
you use a card to pay for your gas? that is a small(admittedly very small) part of the problem with constantly rising prices.
the seller pays a fee every time your card is swiped. if it won't swipe, and he has to manually enter the numbers, he's charged more. that is figured into the cost. sometimes it's not...you can tell by the stations that charge more for a card than for cash.
tahoes aren't as bad on gas as one would think, and some minivans aren't as good on gas as one would think. the camaro....check some other threads.......that thing probably gets about 27 mpg or so, which is pretty dam good for a 4,000 pound car.
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you use a card to pay for your gas? that is a small(admittedly very small) part of the problem with constantly rising prices.
the seller pays a fee every time your card is swiped. if it won't swipe, and he has to manually enter the numbers, he's charged more. that is figured into the cost. sometimes it's not...you can tell by the stations that charge more for a card than for cash.
tahoes aren't as bad on gas as one would think, and some minivans aren't as good on gas as one would think. the camaro....check some other threads.......that thing probably gets about 27 mpg or so, which is pretty dam good for a 4,000 pound car.
:rofl :bhead
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Holy smokes! I'd sure hate to pay your gas card bill every month!
Really though if you can afford it and you don't mind paying to fuel up those vehicles then by all means do it! I have nothing against that.
But on the other hand, do you really need those vehicles? I mean your Diesel truck I'm sure gets used a lot and pays for itself and therefore can not be replaced, but do your wife and oldest daughter really need a Tahoe? Personally if it were up to me, my wife would be driving a minivan or a wagon (I refuse to use the term "Crossover"), and my daughters would have econo-boxes... maybe a Cobolt or a Cruze. (Actually mine would probably have a different brand but you're obviously a Chevy guy so I'll leave it at that).
Anyway I'm not saying this to try to push anything on you or to point fingers or anything.. after all it's your decision to make, I'm just saying.. in my case I would be GLAD to put the gasoline savings alone to better use by driving more efficient vehicles. Heck, it would probably pay for my vacation every year!
lol Oldest daughter is out on here own and married. She has 4 daughters of her own. Her husband drives my ex red Z71. He bought it from me.
My wife doesn't really need a Tahoe except when we get the grandkids. She is considering buying a camaro till our youngest finishes A&M and gets married. At which time she is looking for more grandkids. haha.
My Crew has plenty of room but sits up high with the 6" lift. A little harder to load the kids in. Although the two older, 10 and 12, ones jump right in.
I pay for my vacation just fine when I get free time for one. I like it simple. Pull the 32 footer up to the Guadalupe and get my kayak out. Then I'm saving fuel. :D
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Can someone explain to me why people hate the idea so much?
same reason that people hated the idea of the car so much when it arrived. plus manipulation by powerful, well funded lobbying groups.
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same reason that people hated the idea of the car so much when it arrived. plus manipulation by powerful, well funded lobbying groups.
I don't hate the idea (read my previous post) I'm just being realistic.
Electric car technology has not yet reached a level where it is at all practical for anyone living in a rural area, or anyone who likes road trips, or anyone who tows or hauls. Nor is the infrastructure (power generation and grid) in place to support electric cars.
For people who live in metropolis areas, and drive less then 150 miles a day, and have reliable power, electric cars sound like a great idea, and I mean that sincerely, I think cars like the Leaf fit that niche perfectly, and I hope they continue to improve them.
But for the rest of us, who live in rural areas, with unreliable power service, who like to take road trips, and have need of pickups that can tow and haul... the current electric cars are not practical or useful at all. Of course they will improve over time, but will there ever be an electric 1 ton pickup, that can tow 12,000 lbs, go 500 miles between charges and recharge in 5 minutes????
Also, if you think for a second that the "green" lobby that is pushing electric cars is less manipulative and powerful, or less well funded as the oil lobby you're very much deceiving yourself.
And to get back to the topic of this thread. The idea that a car with an as yet unproven design, has very serious limits to it's practicality and fills such a very, very small niche of the market wins "Car of the Year" does seem to me to smack of a political agenda.
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you use a card to pay for your gas? that is a small(admittedly very small) part of the problem with constantly rising prices.
You're not serious, are you? You didn't pick on up how that was a 'Figure of speech'?
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I don't hate the idea (read my previous post) I'm just being realistic.
Electric car technology has not yet reached a level where it is at all practical for anyone living in a rural area, or anyone who likes road trips, or anyone who tows or hauls. Nor is the infrastructure (power generation and grid) in place to support electric cars.
For people who live in metropolis areas, and drive less then 150 miles a day, and have reliable power, electric cars sound like a great idea, and I mean that sincerely, I think cars like the Leaf fit that niche perfectly, and I hope they continue to improve them.
But for the rest of us, who live in rural areas, with unreliable power service, who like to take road trips, and have need of pickups that can tow and haul... the current electric cars are not practical or useful at all. Of course they will improve over time, but will there ever be an electric 1 ton pickup, that can tow 12,000 lbs, go 500 miles between charges and recharge in 5 minutes????
Also, if you think for a second that the "green" lobby that is pushing electric cars is less manipulative and powerful, or less well funded as the oil lobby you're very much deceiving yourself.
And to get back to the topic of this thread. The idea that a car with an as yet unproven design, that fills such a very, very small niche of the market wins "Car of the Year" does seem to me to smack of a political agenda.
And that's my point exactly... that vast majority of people live in populated Urban areas and drive less than 150 miles a day. I never said an electric car would fit everyone's needs.. just the majority. I don't think people in rural areas quite understand the concentration of people in the cities.
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You're not serious, are you? You didn't pick on up how that was a 'Figure of speech'?
yea i did......i just wanted to toss that in there, because my processing company just raised my rates, and i'm pissed.
i'll be putting up a sign offering discounts for cash or checks in the extreme near future.
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And that's my point exactly... that vast majority of people live in populated Urban areas and drive less than 150 miles a day. I never said an electric car would fit everyone's needs.. just the majority. I don't think people in rural areas quite understand the concentration of people in the cities.
i spend a lot of time in center city philly. i fully understand the concentration.
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And that's my point exactly... that vast majority of people live in populated Urban areas and drive less than 150 miles a day. I never said an electric car would fit everyone's needs.. just the majority. I don't think people in rural areas quite understand the concentration of people in the cities.
I understand, I've lived in big city and the sticks.
But are you telling me that people in the city never take a driving vacation of more then 200 miles? How do they go visit Grandma in Wyoming or Montana for the holiday's? The way I figure even with an electric for buzzing around town, most would still want a second car that they can drive 800 miles a day in.
All in all I still think the Diesel hybrid idea is the best. Straight diesels like the VW Lupo can do 75+ mpg, so why not hybrid it and get 100+ mpg?? The lack of super economical diesel cars available in the US is one thing that drives me nuts. How come Ford can sell a diesel Focus, or Fiesta in Europe, but not here? (actually I know the answer, but it would get "see rule #14")
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I understand, I've lived in big city and the sticks.
But are you telling me that people in the city never take a driving vacation of more then 200 miles? How do they go visit Grandma in Wyoming or Montana for the holiday's? The way I figure even with an electric for buzzing around town, most would still want a second car that they can drive 800 miles a day in.
All in all I still think the Diesel hybrid idea is the best. Straight diesels like the VW Lupo can do 75+ mpg, so why not hybrid it and get 100+ mpg?? The lack of super economical diesel cars available in the US is one thing that drives me nuts. How come Ford can sell a diesel Focus, or Fiesta in Europe, but not here? (actually I know the answer, but it would get "see rule #14")
When gas is $5+ a gallon, it would be cheaper for them to rent a car for that once or twice a year they may take a trip. There's no telling how high gas prices will be once Battery technology matures and Electric cars prove themselves.
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The emp from the zombiepocalypse will make old mechanically injected diesels popular again.
I've got one that's either going into my infiniti M30 (nissan leopard) or into a 240sx (better aero).
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The emp from the zombiepocalypse will make old mechanically injected diesels popular again.
The sad part is that this statement makes a lot more sense than some of the posts in here :lol
BTW, CAP go get some coffee fast. I just used my card at Starbucks so prices should be going up ASAP.
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No Luv for the poor volt, environmental liberals call it the 'Volt hoax' because it can also operate as a hybrid when additional power is required thus allowing it to use its gasoline engine to assist the electric motors. On the other side conservatives dislike it because it's an electric car that is very expensive and the government has to put out incentives for anyone to buy it.
I like the concept of the volt. It's right in line with how Americans expect to use their car. If it has gas in it it will 'go', no range anxiety. If I forget to plug it in no problem as long as it has gas, it will go. But critics are right when they say it's to expensive. The list price is $41,000, that's way to expensive when you can buy a $16,000-$20,000 economy car that gets decent gas millage. Unless gas jumps up to $30 a gallon you're not going to save any money. So what's the purpose of buying one? I guess you can take confort that more money will end up going to Korea instead of OPEC, plus you can pat yourself on the back thinking you've done your part to save the environment(which really isn't true). Unless the volt price drops under $26,000(without government credits) I don't see how it will be successful.
As for the leaf, it may be cheaper than the volt but there are going to be people who will still need a second car that runs on gas. If you have to purchase another car because the leaf doesn't meet your full needs it might actually be cheaper to buy the volt where you can have a one car solution.
Pure electric cars like the leaf still have to many limitations. Limited rage, charging takes serveral hours, battery life span is to short, and their very expensive to replace. The technology has been getting better but I don't think it's quite there yet.
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If the toejam hits the fan, might be interesting to have a car than can power an entire house if needed.
That said, where are the diesel hybrids?
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wondered that myself, its not like the technology hasn't been tested. heck, they've had diesel electrics for almost 60 years now. tell me that can't swap over.
use an izusu diesel hooked up to a couple generators then run them to 4 motors on each wheel. this solves the situation of batteries as well as shock to the engine, but also gets you very good mileage
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my guess because diesel engines are heavy.
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how many kw does it take to get a vehicle up to 60 in 12 seconds. say vehicle ways 3300 lbs.
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The sad part is that this statement makes a lot more sense than some of the posts in here :lol
BTW, CAP go get some coffee fast. I just used my card at Starbucks so prices should be going up ASAP.
i know you're just gonna try to make light of this.....but read up.
States that allow for cash or credit option are "the norm and not the exception," Kloza said. At $4 a gallon, American Express collects 12 cents a gallon or more in processing fees from a sale by a motorist who uses an American Express card, he added.
from here.......
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011105010345
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Amex has always had ridiculous merchant charges, thats why they're generally not accepted in europe (plus historically they used to take months to settle accounts adding an extra hidden cashflow/borrowing cost).
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Amex has always had ridiculous merchant charges, thats why they're generally not accepted in europe (plus historically they used to take months to settle accounts adding an extra hidden cashflow/borrowing cost).
yea i know. discover is almost as bad. i don't accept either. virtually anyone with an amex card also has a visa or mastercard.
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Anything that requires a government incentive means it cost every American. That is where the money comes from. Whenever you see and electric car going down the road you can bet the owner received money out of your pocket.
Of course that is not just with cars.
If electric cars work for you.. great. It just does not fulfill my needs even at the most basic level..
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Bear in mind this was 'world' car of the year. A lot of Euro and Japanese journalists would have voted on this. With $10/gallon gas, shorter average commutes and enormously congested cities, the Leaf makes more sense than when viewed in a purely US context. That said, I still think if you are going to vote this way, the Volt is a greater technical achievement and far more practical solution given where we are right now.
My solution to rising fuel costs is to cycle to work and I'm lucky enough to be able to do so. I don't care if it costs $70 to fill the car if the tank lasts a month.
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Bear in mind this was 'world' car of the year. A lot of Euro and Japanese journalists would have voted on this. With $10/gallon gas, shorter average commutes and enormously congested cities, the Leaf makes more sense than when viewed in a purely US context. That said, I still think if you are going to vote this way, the Volt is a greater technical achievement and far more practical solution given where we are right now.
My solution to rising fuel costs is to cycle to work and I'm lucky enough to be able to do so. I don't care if it costs $70 to fill the car if the tank lasts a month.
better and probably almost instant solution to rising fuel costs.....it's a 2 part solution.
1)remove oil from the stock market.
2) eliminate the roadblocks, and start drilling here. even just the announcement that we are considering this will drop oil through the floor.
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I have the car of the year.
Every year for me...
Fun in the summer, sometimes even more so in the winter
Folks tend to not bother you when you have the doors and top off when it's snowing :devil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPGY6PS-Mc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPGY6PS-Mc)