Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Angus on May 15, 2011, 01:27:17 PM
-
Yup. Witnessed a crash, some 500 m. from my house yesterday. There is a runway near by and I often watch take-offs and landings.
There was this Cessna 172 that had landed. Crosswind almost 90 degs, and probably some 4 on the beaufort. He took off again, used very short runway and the standard short-field procedure. Probably needed some 500 feet for the take-off.
He came again, and I wondered if it was an instructor teching crosswind landings and take offs. He taxied to the end of the rwy and picked up some people, taxied back and took off.
Again a rather short take-off, but longer, perhaps 800 feet or so. He immediately climbed quite steeply, banked into the wind and stalled. The aircraft started wing-dipping and loosing alt, - he was only just above the ground effect so there was little time to play with. One wing went in, then the other, he smacked down and the aircraft turned a half circle.
I ran for the door while saying to my wife that she should call the emergency line for the plane had crashed.
Grabbed the family fire estinguisher on the way out, jumped into the car and drove like a madman to the site.
The passengers were all out and standing. The pilot had hurt his head, and one passenger was in a shock. I saw that the right wing tank had ripped and the avgas was oozing all over the cockpit, so I hushed them all further from the a/c, and asked the pilot (who had his extiguisher in his hand already) if he had switched the aircraft off.
Luckily he did.
The police was there in minutes, then the doc, ambulance and fire brigade. Really fast they were, quite admirable.
And luckily, no serious injuries.
Aircraft here:
(http://www.mbl.is/frimg/5/63/563619.jpg)
(http://www.ruv.is/sites/default/files/myndir/flugslys-3.jpg.crop_display.jpg)
-
:O kudos for being johnny on the spot :salute
real glad everyone was OK
-
Glad they were alive. It's a lot less exciting when dead people and fire are involved.
-
What you did was admirable, Angus; I :salute you. However, isn't a handheld fire extinguisher too little, too late for an avgas fire? :headscratch: My dad always told me that the fire department hates it when people try to put out the fire themselves. Is it different in your country?
-Penguin
-
Way to go Angus! You should get a medal or something :aok
What you did was admirable, Angus; I :salute you. However, isn't a handheld fire extinguisher too little, too late for an avgas fire? :headscratch: My dad always told me that the fire department hates it when people try to put out the fire themselves. Is it different in your country?
-Penguin
Different in his country? No. Your parents are just wrong in EVERY country.
-
What you did was admirable, Angus; I :salute you. However, isn't a handheld fire extinguisher too little, too late for an avgas fire? :headscratch: My dad always told me that the fire department hates it when people try to put out the fire themselves. Is it different in your country?
-Penguin
Yup, because when I have a cabin fire im going to sit in the cockpit and wait for the fire department to get there.
-
Oops, looks like I was wrong. Sorry to cause a disturbance. :eek:
:bolt:
-Penguin
-
I am not familiar with what is suitable for avgas fire, but a truckload of light water might be it.
Anyway, I just grabbed what I had, - powder extinguisher for the household, which is vastly bigger than the little one in the aircraft. Better than nothing while the fire brigade is on the road.
My worry was that people were perhaps trapped inside or injured. A friend of mine crashed last year and broke his spine as an example. Anything to buy time while help is on the way was my thought.
Luckily there was no fire.
But the best part were the passengers. In the back seat there was this one, well actually his double, - fully dressed, and I am not joking!!!
(http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/sportacus1.jpg)
-
i'm more of a robby rotten fan . nice show old chap
-
Different in his country? No. Your parents are just wrong in EVERY country.
Especially when they decided to reproduce.....
-
Especially when they decided to reproduce.....
Wow, you're a really nice guy :aok
<S>Angus
What you did was admirable, Angus; I :salute you. However, isn't a handheld fire extinguisher too little, too late for an avgas fire? :headscratch: My dad always told me that the fire department hates it when people try to put out the fire themselves. Is it different in your country?
-Penguin
Something tells me he might have been talking about if a person were to try and put out their own personal housefire, or something. If that's the case, then I'd understand what you mean.
-
Wow, you're a really nice guy :aok
<S>Angus
Something tells me he might have been talking about if a person were to try and put out their own personal housefire, or something. If that's the case, then I'd understand what you mean.
You are correct, I meant housefire, but I still don't have an answer pertaining to whether one should attempt to put out a fire in their plane with a handheld extinguisher.
-Penguin
-
You are correct, I meant housefire, but I still don't have an answer pertaining to whether one should attempt to put out a fire in their plane with a handheld extinguisher.
-Penguin
What else are you supposed to use?
-
What else are you supposed to use?
What I'm asking is, if your plane is on the ground and on fire and you're not in it, should you try to use your handheld fire extinguisher on the fire while the fire department gets there?
-Penguin
-
You are correct, I meant housefire, but I still don't have an answer pertaining to whether one should attempt to put out a fire in their plane with a handheld extinguisher.
-Penguin
What are you thinking? Me & the pilot actually had 3 extinguishers between us, 1 from the cockpit, 1 from my car, and one big one from the household.
With a cockpit fire and someone perhaps stuck, you don't just sit and wait!
-
What are you thinking? Me & the pilot actually had 3 extinguishers between us, 1 from the cockpit, 1 from my car, and one big one from the household.
With a cockpit fire and someone perhaps stuck, you don't just sit and wait!
Aha, now I see your point.
-Penguin
-
You are correct, I meant housefire, but I still don't have an answer pertaining to whether one should attempt to put out a fire in their plane with a handheld extinguisher.
-Penguin
No reason not to try....you're not going to make things any worse.
-
Different in his country? No. Your parents are just wrong in EVERY country.
:rofl
-
When my kitchen at the restaurant caught fire last year, I really should of waited the 10 minutes for firemen to arrive, and let the place go up in flames, rather than reach over on the wall and grab the extinguisher and put it out myself. Or when a contractor lit my FME covers on fire doing hot work at the nuke plant, I should of called the fire team and then sat around, rather than call them and put it out myself first. :headscratch:
I have to stop doing these stupid things
-
When my kitchen at the restaurant caught fire last year, I really should of waited the 10 minutes for firemen to arrive, and let the place go up in flames, rather than reach over on the wall and grab the extinguisher and put it out myself. Or when a contractor lit my FME covers on fire doing hot work at the nuke plant, I should of called the fire team and then sat around, rather than call them and put it out myself first. :headscratch:
I have to stop doing these stupid things
Its ok, you were just uninformed.
-
Its ok, you were just uninformed.
(http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg)
-
OMG wow what a story AND I know the show that guy is on Lazy Town! My son loves it.
Glad everyone is ok. You have to watch that show just once for like 5 minutes to see it.
That kids show is in every country in every language.
-
OMG wow what a story AND I know the show that guy is on Lazy Town! My son loves it.
Glad everyone is ok. You have to watch that show just once for like 5 minutes to see it.
I have to admit to kinda, sorta liking that stupid show.... :bolt:
-
When my kitchen at the restaurant caught fire last year, I really should of waited the 10 minutes for firemen to arrive, and let the place go up in flames, rather than reach over on the wall and grab the extinguisher and put it out myself. Or when a contractor lit my FME covers on fire doing hot work at the nuke plant, I should of called the fire team and then sat around, rather than call them and put it out myself first. :headscratch:
I have to stop doing these stupid things
Odd country you live in.
Our house caught fire some years ago, and the fire was quelched before the brigade arrived.
Doing nothing could have meant all our assets in flames, and insurances don't cover everything you know, including the business we run in the house (B & B)
Instead, we had one room to fix and were payed by the insurance.
And when human lives are involved, you do not think on these notes. Shame on that!
-
When my kitchen at the restaurant caught fire last year, I really should of waited the 10 minutes for firemen to arrive, and let the place go up in flames, rather than reach over on the wall and grab the extinguisher and put it out myself. Or when a contractor lit my FME covers on fire doing hot work at the nuke plant, I should of called the fire team and then sat around, rather than call them and put it out myself first. :headscratch:
I have to stop doing these stupid things
Don't worry warhed, I understand (and rather admire) your satire :aok
-
LOL, one should wake up before entering the forum :o
-
Glad everyone was o.k.! As far as putting out a fire, why would they even have fire extinguishers if you weren't supposed to use them? And even if you weren't supposed to use them on avgas, I think if someone stumbled out of the plane on fire, they would have appreciated an attempt to at least put THEM out.
-
Glad everyone was fine. Good moves on your part.
Cheers
-
Some folks would have brought a gun and a camera :devil
-
And when human lives are involved, you do not think on these notes. Shame on that!
+1
-
Good Call Angus! :salute
Side Note:
I love watching Penguin troll, many times it leads from a good post to an argument within a few posts after he arrives :rolleyes:
-
What firemen DON'T want folks to do is get caught inside a burning structure while attempting to put the fire out.
It makes their job harder and many times more dangerous when they, themselves have to go into a burning structure to save some dumb-ass that didn't have the brains to get out while they still could.
-
Nice job on the response.
Was "Sporticus" an adult?
That said, I find Robby Rotten to be an awesome character who should be making cameo appearances in movies.
-
Well done Angus.
PS. Is that volcano still spewing?
-
Good Call Angus! :salute
Side Note:
I love watching Penguin troll, many times it leads from a good post to an argument within a few posts after he arrives :rolleyes:
How did I troll? I just asked a question about fire safety.
What firemen DON'T want folks to do is get caught inside a burning structure while attempting to put the fire out.
It makes their job harder and many times more dangerous when they, themselves have to go into a burning structure to save some dumb-ass that didn't have the brains to get out while they still could.
And someone finally answered, thank-you VonMessa.
-Penguin
-
Angus, are you saying the guy in the plane (or one of them) was one of the stars of "Lazy Town" or his stunt double?
Well done on seeing the crash and getting it called into the authorities as quickly as you did! Speed in getting ambulances (etc.) to the scene as quickly as possible is most often the thing that saves the most lives. It's not up to anyone who is not a doctor to decide if someone is injured or not. Someone can have a concussion and it can be fatal hours later if the person is not admitted and kept for overnight observation. Well done on getting them hwlp quickly!! :aok
-
Well done Angus! That's a once in a lifetime event :salute
-
What I'm asking is, if your plane is on the ground and on fire and you're not in it, should you try to use your handheld fire extinguisher on the fire while the fire department gets there?
-Penguin
internal extinguishers are for people only or to make a path for people to get out. let the a/c burn.... better it then you.
-
Ah, now that makes sense.
-Penguin
-
What you did was admirable, Angus; I :salute you. However, isn't a handheld fire extinguisher too little, too late for an avgas fire? :headscratch: My dad always told me that the fire department hates it when people try to put out the fire themselves. Is it different in your country?
-Penguin
If a person were on fire, that handheld extinguisher would have been very handy. Better to have it and not need it, then the other way around. A "well-done" for getting out there prepared to help and doing what you could.
-
I think that Angus strung a cable across the grass strip so he'd have an excuse to go running out with his large fire extinguisher. Either that or his kids found out a Sportacus look-a-like was in the plane.
ack-ack
-
Penguin: I am curious about what you think you would have done.
And Ack-Ack: It was the guy doubling as Sportacus in our country on a countrywide children entertainment tour. My kids were on the morning show, and he was heading for the Westman Islands by air for the next.
He was wearing the blue suit and the mustache.
And....I have 2 fire extinguishers :D Could have brought a fire blanket too, but just grabbed what was nearest,- at the exit.
-
Penguin: I am curious about what you think you would have done.
And Ack-Ack: It was the guy doubling as Sportacus in our country on a countrywide children entertainment tour. My kids were on the morning show, and he was heading for the Westman Islands by air for the next.
He was wearing the blue suit and the mustache.
And....I have 2 fire extinguishers :D Could have brought a fire blanket too, but just grabbed what was nearest,- at the exit.
In all honesty, I'd probably faint or run away and call the fire department and hide under my bed. I didn't mean to criticize you, I was just curious about how you managed to put out the fire.
-Penguin
-
In all honesty, I'd probably faint or run away and call the fire department and hide under my bed. I didn't mean to criticize you, I was just curious about how you managed to put out the fire.
-Penguin
There wasn't a fire.
-
Oops, I made a very incorrect assumption! :eek:
-Penguin
-
Angus, are you saying the guy in the plane (or one of them) was one of the stars of "Lazy Town" or his stunt double?
Sporticus needing a stunt double?......Never!
He actually performed stunts on a Jackie Chan movie.
-
What you did was admirable, Angus; I :salute you. However, isn't a handheld fire extinguisher too little, too late for an avgas fire? :headscratch: My dad always told me that the fire department hates it when people try to put out the fire themselves. Is it different in your country?
-Penguin
Depends what the extinguisher is rated for and if you know how to properly use it. I forget the ratings, I think there are/were three, ranging from simple compressed water dispensers to foam-dispensing types, but many of the common ones are rated for haz-mat, combustables and electrical and dispence a powdery substance rather than a liquid like water that chokes out fires by eliminating the oxygen rather than dilute or disperse like with using plain water and liquid fuels.
You are correct, I meant housefire, but I still don't have an answer pertaining to whether one should attempt to put out a fire in their plane with a handheld extinguisher.
-Penguin
Mostly this is because people do it dangerously and wrong, especially when it's their own home and their own possessions going up in flame. A lot of time what firefighters do the most and are trained the best at is to tulips a situation, draw a plan of action and most importantly what property owners can't do - draw a line in the sand taking in consideration the safety of everyone, sc1@# the material property we'll do the best for it we can after everyone is safe.
I've had the unfortunate pleasure of experiencing a house fire from an occupant's perspective, but have also seen a number in person as a ride-along with a family friend who was an LA City fire chief. Priority one is people and animals out. Priority two is contact the fire department (not from within the burning structure).
It becomes a problem when people go back inside to get their photo albums or to try and fight the fire before firefighters get there (in an unwise and unsafe and/or uneffective manner, a garden hose is really no better than pissing once the fire is consuming the structure - instead use your hose to wet down your neighbors house if its imediatley next to yours and threatened by burning before the fire department shows up, at least that might have a chance of doing some serious good). There is just nothing a typical homeowner can effectively and safely do, at all, short of having your own fire hose and access to a pump or hydrant.
-
And Ack-Ack: It was the guy doubling as Sportacus in our country on a countrywide children entertainment tour. My kids were on the morning show, and he was heading for the Westman Islands by air for the next.
He was wearing the blue suit and the mustache.
Oh, so it's looking good for my theory that your kids were responsible.
ack-ack
-
Depends what the extinguisher is rated for and if you know how to properly use it. I forget the ratings, I think there are/were three, ranging from simple compressed water dispensers to foam-dispensing types, but many of the common ones are rated for haz-mat, combustables and electrical and dispence a powdery substance rather than a liquid like water that chokes out fires by eliminating the oxygen rather than dilute or disperse like with using plain water and liquid fuels.
There are 4 classifications:
A Combustible solids such as paper, wood
B Combustible liquids -- fuel, oil, solvents
C Electrical Fires (these are really Class A and/or Class B fires on an energized item)
D Combustable metals -- Magnesium
Dry Chemical extinguishers interrupt the chemical reaction required for fire...they do not eliminate the oxygen.
-
Good Call Angus! :salute
Side Note:
I love watching Penguin troll, many times it leads from a good post to an argument within a few posts after he arrives :rolleyes:
Along with the patented Alfred E Newman look you can almost see while hearing "Who me?" Almost smarmy.
-
There are 4 classifications:
A Combustible solids such as paper, wood
B Combustible liquids -- fuel, oil, solvents
C Electrical Fires (these are really Class A and/or Class B fires on an energized item)
D Combustable metals -- Magnesium
Dry Chemical extinguishers interrupt the chemical reaction required for fire...they do not eliminate the oxygen.
Oh yeah, it's coming back now. Dry chem extinguishers make an awful mess of the air (I remember that from public school, lol) and can displace air/oxygen otherwise accessible to the fire and the reactions, but since thermodynamics of a fire is always trying to circulate fresh air in and smoke up/out it won't be there for more than a second and will have no impact in that fashion... you are correct they interfere directly with the fuel and it's chemical reaction. I miss fire safety and science, was fun.
I can only recall three extinguisher classfiications though, is that a recently updated list? I think I was taught to treat electricals as class As or Bs depending on if it was energized and how much energy.
-
I can only recall three extinguisher classfiications though, is that a recently updated list? I think I was taught to treat electricals as class As or Bs depending on if it was energized and how much energy.
There have been 4 classifications (In the US) since at least 1979 when I entered into a career of Aircraft Crash/Rescue. Since then they have changed the "fire triangle" to the "fire tetrahedron". Instead of Fuel - Heat - Oxygen it is now Fuel - Heat - Oxygen - Chemical Reaction.
-
Depends what the extinguisher is rated for and if you know how to properly use it. I forget the ratings, I think there are/were three, ranging from simple compressed water dispensers to foam-dispensing types, but many of the common ones are rated for haz-mat, combustables and electrical and dispence a powdery substance rather than a liquid like water that chokes out fires by eliminating the oxygen rather than dilute or disperse like with using plain water and liquid fuels.
Mostly this is because people do it dangerously and wrong, especially when it's their own home and their own possessions going up in flame. A lot of time what firefighters do the most and are trained the best at is to tulips a situation, draw a plan of action and most importantly what property owners can't do - draw a line in the sand taking in consideration the safety of everyone, sc1@# the material property we'll do the best for it we can after everyone is safe.
I've had the unfortunate pleasure of experiencing a house fire from an occupant's perspective, but have also seen a number in person as a ride-along with a family friend who was an LA City fire chief. Priority one is people and animals out. Priority two is contact the fire department (not from within the burning structure).
It becomes a problem when people go back inside to get their photo albums or to try and fight the fire before firefighters get there (in an unwise and unsafe and/or uneffective manner, a garden hose is really no better than pissing once the fire is consuming the structure - instead use your hose to wet down your neighbors house if its imediatley next to yours and threatened by burning before the fire department shows up, at least that might have a chance of doing some serious good). There is just nothing a typical homeowner can effectively and safely do, at all, short of having your own fire hose and access to a pump or hydrant.
I think I understand now. If it's done right, then it can be done. However, most homeowners put their possesions before their lives and end up getting killed.
For my next question:
So would a class B extinguisher work on a burning airplane?
-Penguin
-
Well this was in the mid to late 90s for me. The fire chief who I learned most of this stuff from definetly would of gotten the pre-79 version for most of it. He got his first cources through serving in the military and being a pilot in Air Crash/Rescue. First he was a Globemaster II pilot and then I know sometime before he did a couple tours in Nam he got swapped or volunteered for piloting Hueys and that's where he got most his Air Crash/Rescue training and also his training for piloting the LA Fire helicopters that were all hueys for the longest time, and I think they're still being used. And I learned from him about the triangle, nothing but the triangle. He never had anything positive to say about that "newfangled" tetrahedron, he said to always go by the triangle and that in extreme cases where you need to refer to or go by a tetrahedron to tell you something is out of the ordinary about a blaze then you probabley shouldn't be a first responder or even fighting it, lol.
Boy he was always a real character, the oldest man to request working a couple years straight at the rebuilt South Central house after the riots tore down the original one. He hated working with all the old farts a duffers that got the more laid back houses, hated dragging them out to do their job because they were getting lazy, old and content. Loved the young guys and recruits that got short-strawed into working at stations like the main South Central one, they'd jump outa bed in the middle of the night and be ready to rock n' roll even if it was a silly bandaid call or another sheered firehydrant by a DUI (crack has an especialy strong tendancy to attract abusing drivers twords yellow hydrants). His favorite of the lazy houses though was the one right next to Van Nuys airport, and it was my favorite one period, it's the one I would go out of my way to visit if he was working. Front half on the street is all normal 1-ladder, 2-pumper, and an ambulance bay with accomodations for full crew - back half was all the airport and runway emergency responce "trucks", and to call those things trucks is a HUGE understatement in the size and scale of those mega-rigs - then a short drive around the taxiway and north-end of the runway to get to the LA fire and rescue helicopter hangars and main maintenance hangar.
He always liked that I joked with him that I never understood how he went from flying something as sturdy and reliable as a 4-propped globemaster that was made to fly, to a huey that had only one-and-a-half props that was made for controlled falling-to-the-ground.
-
I think I understand now. If it's done right, then it can be done. However, most homeowners put their possesions before their lives and end up getting killed.
For my next question:
So would a class B extinguisher work on a burning airplane?
-Penguin
If the airplane is made out of flammable liquid, yes. :devil
Once fought a Maule that caught fire during a maintenance run (loose fuel fitting). I used a quick repsonse vehicle with 500 pounds of Purple K dry chem...knocked the fire down RIGHT NOW....then it flared up again in the cockpit...knocked it down...flared up...knocked it down and took a peek...was the seat cushion burning. Another fireman grabbed a bucket and walked down to the lake and got some water...seat fire dead.
-
We had a housefire some years ago. Someone (read Canadian tourist that had checked out and left) left a burning candle in the toilet-paper shelf.
Shelf caught fire, the paper etc. Bonny big fire.
One of the household (A german girl) came by and with an impressive swiftness, grabbed the estinguisher and quelched the fire, then closed the door and called for help.
The fire was dead, but the fire brigade smoke-vented the flat.
The heat was enough to melt the plastics in the shower cabin, as well as electical cables in the ceiling (behind plaster) and the lights on the ceiling as well.
But the bottom line is, that she probably saved the house with her quick reaction.
Now in an aircraft, there may be sparks flying, a cabin fire, or the avgas fire. I think that if the avgas would have caught fire, it would have been a "kaboom" and nothing I could have done. And yet, it does not always happen. A friend of mine witnessed a crash where the aircraft caught fire, but the pilot and passenger yet crawled out of the wreck and walked away unhurt. Looked like something out of a James Bond movie he said.
So, that's that ;)
-
Now in an aircraft, there may be sparks flying, a cabin fire, or the avgas fire. I think that if the avgas would have caught fire, it would have been a "kaboom" and nothing I could have done. And yet, it does not always happen. A friend of mine witnessed a crash where the aircraft caught fire, but the pilot and passenger yet crawled out of the wreck and walked away unhurt. Looked like something out of a James Bond movie he said.
So, that's that ;)
In all the aircraft fires I've been involved in the only one where we had any "kaboom" was the Super Cub that spun in with 4 5 gallon cans of gas in teh back. One ruptured on impact, the other 3 cooked off as we fought the fire. I was working law enforcement that day so I was working a foam line wearing my cop uniform and Stetson...pretty exciting having a flaming gas can go rocketing by. :O
-
Whoahhh, that must have been something.
Anyway, back to Sportacus.
He does not need a stunt double, but he cannot be in many places at the same time, - hence the double. "He" has been touring the country in some kindergarten-project.
The original is a very fit fellow, and he did indeed do a baddie in a Jackie Chan film. He should be in his forties now, but heck, - how old is Jackie :D
-
Someone called me "Johnny on the spot".
Oddly enough, my first name is "Jon",and some call me Johnny.
My middle name "Logi" means flame, or fire.