Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: JOACH1M on May 20, 2011, 11:57:59 PM
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Why is that I feel the LA if far superior to the spit 16? The La7 is both a runner and a fighter and its only 8 ENY? Why isn't it 5?
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Range. Its altitude performance is just "way above average", not clearly superior to everything else. Anyway i like the La's scissors against spit16s.
The La pretty much owns the niki (the other eny8 plane) in everything but range and ammo load.
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La-7 goes from a 5 to a 20 ENY once you go above 7k feet or more than 10 miles from your airfield.
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La-7 goes from a 5 to a 20 ENY once you go above 7k feet or more than 10 miles from your airfield.
Yes. Above 8-9k feet La's performance drops way off. Also the Spitfire climbs a good 500fpm faster at all altitudes, and the Hispano/M2 50cal gunpack is one of the easiest to use and get kills with in the game. OTOH, La7 guns are all but worthless against fighters at ranges past 400-500, while the spit's Hizookas can easily blow your tailfeathers off at 800-1000. (not to mention the Sp16's rediculous "flopping fish" evasive rolls it can pull off.
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I've run into a few la7s at 30k feet recently and they flew pretty well.
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I've run into a few la7s at 30k feet recently and they flew pretty well.
Speed is one thing, maneuverability is something different. Like many of the faster aircraft, it does not have the wings to do anything but go straight up that high. A P47M will run circles around the La7 at 30k simply because the La7 can sustain the turns. Wing design comes in to play in a major way up that high.
FWIW... the best altitude for speed in a La7 is at 20k, and that is 410mph. There no real weak spot for speed in the La7, only handling and that is the higher it goes the worse it gets.
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As mentioned above LA7 sucks above 5K, has limited range, and can't turn well.
Spit16 can turn a lot tighter, climb a lot faster, accelerate a lot faster, fight a lot higher (even though it's made for low alt), carry a drop tank, and carry ord. I think it should actually be perked as it's only disadvantage is the speed. Oh and it has a name "Spitfire" which automatically makes it good.
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For me the La turns just fine (down low of course). Has a decent turn radius and an acceptable turn rate, it can do very well against Jaks, p51s, jugs, p38s, 109s, 190s, even against f6fs and ki84s if you can force the downhill. Up to 9K its uncatchable (ok the 109K can catch it over 7K), and still above average up to 18-20k. I dont know much about the differences betweeh a SHVAKs and the HO-5 cannons, they feel good in the hitting power i just see a lil inaccuracy at 500+ ranges, true, not an 50cal or a hispano. It can dive, some dweebs use it like coming at 20k, then dive away when you equalize the energy states and run uncatchable no the deck... its eny8 for a good reason.
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For me the La turns just fine (down low of course). Has a decent turn radius and an acceptable turn rate, it can do very well against Jaks, p51s, jugs, p38s, 109s, 190s, even against f6fs and ki84s if you can force the downhill. Up to 9K its uncatchable (ok the 109K and Spit14 can catch it over 7K), and still above average up to 18-20k. I dont know much about the differences betweeh a SHVAKs and the HO-5 cannons, they feel good in the hitting power i just see a lil inaccuracy at 500+ ranges, true, not an 50cal or a hispano. It can dive, some dweebs use it like coming at 20k, then dive away when you equalize the energy states and run uncatchable no the deck... its eny8 for a good reason.
Fixed
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As mentioned above LA7 sucks above 5K, has limited range, and can't turn well.
Spit16 can turn a lot tighter, climb a lot faster, accelerate a lot faster, fight a lot higher (even though it's made for low alt), carry a drop tank, and carry ord. I think it should actually be perked as it's only disadvantage is the speed. Oh and it has a name "Spitfire" which automatically makes it good.
Better double check that. The climb rate of the La7 and gay16 are closer then you think. Oh.. and the acceleration???? Double check that too. ;)
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Better double check that. The climb rate of the La7 and gay16 are closer then you think. Oh.. and the acceleration???? Double check that too. ;)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=86&p2=42&pw=2>ype=2)
(http://imageshack.us/m/196/1050/acceleration.jpg)
So you get an La7 to turn and bleed off his energy, than accelerate to your climb speed and start climbing. Climb for some time than feel free to BnZ him for as long as you want. That's if you are not capable of out maneuvering him.
Also I'd like to add that the Spitfire is capable of maintaining it's energy in turns a lot better.
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And the lower chart clearly illustrate that indeed the Spit doesn't accelerate "a lot faster" than the LA-7 :)
oh, and no, the L-7 doesn't "suck" above 5k, nor is "can't turn" anyway near the truth either ;)
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And the lower chart clearly illustrate that indeed the Spit doesn't accelerate "a lot faster" than the LA-7 :)
oh, and no, the L-7 doesn't "suck" above 5k, nor is "can't turn" anyway near the truth either ;)
It's the low speed acceleration that matters. As I explained above all you need is to accelerate to your Vy and La7 won't catch you.
I guess "suck" and being able to turn is a point of view, just depends what you compare it to. I can out turn a 747, it can't out turn a Spit16.
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It's the low speed acceleration that matters.
7.3 to 7.7 seconds... :lol
I guess "suck" and being able to turn is a point of view, just depends what you compare it to. I can out turn a 747, it can't out turn a Spit16.
But you didn't compare, you made a flat out statement "the La 7 can't turn"
In fact, while of course not being a Zeke, it's still one of the better turners in game.
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7.3 to 7.7 seconds... :lol
That's 150 to 200, there is a bigger difference from 100 to 200. I'll do a specific test for the numbers later in the day.
And milliseconds count :old:
But you didn't compare, you made a flat out statement "the La 7 can't turn"
In fact, while of course not being a Zeke, it's still one of the better turners in game.
Were comparing Spit16 and La7, if we were comparing a B-17 and an La-7 I would have said that the B-17 can't turn (it's all relative).
Most fighters (if not all) of La-7's size and weight are capable of out turning it.
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Don't get me wrong, La-7 is a good airplane and I would take it over many other fighters. It's just that the Spitfire has better overall performance.
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Don't get me wrong, La-7 is a good airplane and I would take it over many other fighters. It's just that the Spitfire has better overall performance.
Yes, take note of this, new guys. Fly the spit16, leave the La7 in the hangar. :D
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Yes, take note of this, new guys. Fly the spit16, leave the La7 in the hangar. :D
:bhead
Why do I get the feeling were going to see twice as many Spit16s tomorrow.
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Also I'd like to add that the Spitfire is capable of maintaining it's energy in turns a lot better.
But the better a plane turns the more likely a player will turn excessively with it and blow what E they have, I only see a limited amount of MA pilots who can resist the urge to 'put their dot on your dot' in Spit 16s. For this reason the Spit 16 is not a huge threat in the MA to faster rides, or even in most fights.
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But the better a plane turns the more likely a player will turn excessively with it and blow what E they have, I only see a limited amount of MA pilots who can resist the urge to 'put their dot on your dot' in Spit 16s. For this reason the Spit 16 is not a huge threat in the MA to faster rides, or even in most fights.
Agreed. But when comparing planes you can't take the pilot into consideration. If you will do that than you could easily say that Spit16 is the wost plane because noobs fly it.
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So you get an La7 to turn and bleed off his energy, than accelerate to your climb speed and start climbing. Climb for some time than feel free to BnZ him for as long as you want.
in a spit16 thats pretty much ghey and timid. LOL
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My experience, and it is considerable, is that the La-7 turns well enough to be a threat to most fighters in a low-speed maneuvering fight. The problem most people encounter is that they are flying the La-7 too fast to take advantage of it's maneuverability. Another factor is the La-7's outstanding rate of turn. It can get around a slightly bigger circle faster than many better turning fighters can get around their smaller circle. Bighorn and I demonstrated this with me flying an F6F and Bighorn flying the La-7. I could easily turn inside the La-7, but due to the Lavochkin's much higher rate of turn, I could not gain enough to pull lead for a shot. Worse, the La-7 was able to get the nose up enough to gradually gain an altitude advantage, whereupon Bighorn would break from the circle, unload and accelerate away. This allowed the La-7 to extend out enough to reverse into another merge, resetting the fight. Then there is the La-7's significant advantage in WEP duration. This means that I had to use my WEP sparingly. The net result was that neither pilot could get an advantage on the other that was sustainable long enough to count.
That said, the fact remains that the Spit XVI owns the La-7 in every category but speed. Likewise, the Spit VIII is a little slower yet than the XVI down low, but matches it in climb and acceleration. The XVI rolls faster, but the VIII is more stable at high angles of attack. Which means that the VIII will wear down the XVI in a protracted stall-fight. Equal pilots, both the Spit XVI and VIII should triumph over the La-7 in a maneuver fight. Adding to the La-7's woes is the Spitfire's Hizzooka cannons, with far superior ballistics.
Another fighter that will give the La-7 fits is the 109G-2. Clean, they are about equal. Slow, the 109's far better flaps give it the edge. However, the 109 pilot must remember to NEVER attempt to reverse to the right with flaps out at low-speed. The 109 simply will not roll right, even with full right rudder, unless you pull off power to minimize the torque effect. Rolling right takes too much time and the La-7 will quickly gain the advantage. Pulling back power means having to get the nose down to avoid a stall... Another thing you don't want to do. So, keep going left no matter what. Knowing your aircraft and fighting it the way it fights best is always a very important aspect of air to air combat.
If you believe the La-7 is not exceptionally maneuverable, think again. Go to the TA, practice flying it to it's limits. Learn where it's strengths lie and it's weaknesses are. Then, fly to the strengths and avoid the weaknesses.
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Based on my experience, the La is an easy fighter to beat in my 51 at high and medium altitudes, however, below that it can be a handfull. The spixteen is almost a garateed run for your money, it is also rediculously good at low alts. In my opinion, every time I have put my P-51 in a fight the spixteen is extreemly hard to keep up with, even when using flaps. If I had to make a choice between the two, I would go with the spitfire. Although they seem simmalar at low altitudes, the La's peformance falls off sharply as you gain altitude.
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Based on my experience, the La is an easy fighter to beat in my 51 at high and medium altitudes, however, below that it can be a handfull. The spixteen is almost a garateed run for your money, it is also rediculously good at low alts. In my opinion, every time I have put my P-51 in a fight the spixteen is extreemly hard to keep up with, even when using flaps. If I had to make a choice between the two, I would go with the spitfire. Although they seem simmalar at low altitudes, the La's peformance falls off sharply as you gain altitude.
Rumors to the contrary aside, the La7's performance does not suck even as high as 20K.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2>ype=0)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2>ype=2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2>ype=2)
Its worth noting that the P-51D is one of the fastest fighters in the game and one of the best alt performers, so we could expect the La to look even better at alt compared to more "average" fighters.
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in a spit16 thats pretty much ghey and timid. LOL
I never said that it's not :lol, just explained one of the tactics that shows how Spit16 clearly outperforms the La.
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Rumors to the contrary aside, the La7's performance does not suck even as high as 20K.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2>ype=0)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2>ype=2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=0&p2=42&pw=2>ype=2)
Its worth noting that the P-51D is one of the fastest fighters in the game and one of the best alt performers, so we could expect the La to look even better at alt compared to more "average" fighters.
They might be fast in a straight line at 20K, but the wings are not made for maneuvering at that altitude and the engine is also tuned for low altitudes. So if you decide to use it's speed at 20K it will take a while to accelerate.
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Spits....are very hard to fly aggressively. The tail slips out into a flat stall somewhat like a 152. 109's and La's are very easy to fly aggressively as the stall actually can help you. Basically if die to a spit, your doing something wrong
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Spits....are very hard to fly aggressively. The tail slips out into a flat stall somewhat like a 152. 109's and La's are very easy to fly aggressively as the stall actually can help you. Basically if die to a spit, your doing something wrong
So since you say they are hard to fly aggressively, does it mean that you believe that everyone flies them peacefully? :)
I fly Spit14 most of the time, I have no idea what your talking about regarding the tail slipping out, perhaps you can give a better explanation of it. It does sometimes go into a flat spin, but if you know what your doing and have the altitude you can recover from that, and if you know what your doing you probably wont get into that. I also believe if that it's actually the stall limited that puts you into that flat spin as without it never happens (the torque does not allow it).
Ah and I shot you down before... :devil
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Spits....are very hard to fly aggressively. The tail slips out into a flat stall somewhat like a 152. 109's and La's are very easy to fly aggressively as the stall actually can help you. Basically if die to a spit, your doing something wrong
ya thats why i <censored> in a spit. They are DANG easy to fly well in them, but its real hard to jump into into and beat someone who is used to them. Las, Jugs, 109s, ki84s are much more controllable after the stall than the spits.
Just look Krupnksi, Joachim, Lepape, Sunsfan, MickyD, Bunnies, all freestyle warriors. The post-stall stability can mean a lot sometimes.
Btw i like the spit16 better for two reasons: 1. it gives me more perks 2. the noobs cant run from me :bhead
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Btw i like the spit16 better for two reasons: 1. it gives me more perks 2. the noobs cant run from me :bhead
:lol
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ya thats why i <censored> in a spit. They are DANG easy to fly well in them, but its real hard to jump into into and beat someone who is used to them. Las, Jugs, 109s, ki84s are much more controllable after the stall than the spits.
Just look Krupnksi, Joachim, Lepape, Sunsfan, MickyD, Bunnies, all freestyle warriors. The post-stall stability can mean a lot sometimes.
Btw i like the spit16 better for two reasons: 1. it gives me more perks 2. the noobs cant run from me :bhead
I wouldnt compare myself with them, but I don't know what to mean by "freestyle warrior"
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What widewing said on page two.
:joystick:
...My experience, and it is considerable, is that the La-7 turns well enough to be a threat to most fighters in a low-speed maneuvering fight. Knowing your aircraft and fighting it the way it fights best is always a very important aspect of air to air combat. If you believe the La-7 is not exceptionally maneuverable, think again...