Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fud on May 23, 2011, 06:43:10 PM
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I decided to take the 4hog out for a spin early one morning and was cruising about 20k when I decided to do an experiment. I opened the E6B, lowered the gear and nosed over. I wanted to see a few things: 1) How fast do I need to go before the gear rips off and if the plane is lighter with no gear?
Well, the gear rips away at 500 knots! (Is that true with the real plane?) however the plane weight stayed the same!?
I don't know if this is a bug, since this is the first time I tried to see if the planes weight changes with parts missing. I see some team mates flying gear down til they rip off to lighten the plane a bit.
I am unsure if this is with all planes or the 4hog.
<S> mukker of Fud
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500 sounds about right for the F4U, it's gear is made to work like airbrakes.
You don't want to rip your gear off, as the aircraft might be a little lighter after that the ripped off gear creates a lot of drag because of a non smooth surface therefore slowing you down a lot.
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I've noticed the same thing. Youre right, you dont lose any weight when the parts fall off in ANY plane
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500 sounds about right for the F4U, it's gear is made to work like airbrakes.
the "airbrakes" thing was a bonus, they were made so strong to withstand the pounding involved with landing aboard an aircraft carrier.
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I believe the gear was beefed up because it's a carrier bird and most carrier based aircraft, even in more modern jets, have stronger landing gear due to the hard landings & arresting cable, etc. The Air-brake effect was a nice plus. IMO :salute
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F4Us has a different mechanism that would extend the gear and airbrakes. When you would expend the airbrakes the tail wheel did not extend and as far as I remember the wheels on the main gear did not turn either and stayed perpendicular to the aircraft for greater drag. HTC worked both into one.
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Just taking a stab at this, but probably was done to keep people from doing what they do in the WWI...take off, break gear off because it makes the plane fly better. If you could drop the weight out of the wings, you probably roll a tad bit better, among other things. That's where my thinking is headed.
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So I have been braking my gear off for nothing? :devil :neener:
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Because in the game, when a part is damaged, weight is not removed because in real life, the landing gear would not just rip appart "just like that". It would crunch and bend inside the wheel well and the doors or hydraulic/pneumatic/electric lines receive damage also which would render the Landing Gear "part" useless. In most flaps damages for instance in AH, the 3D geometry of the part is removed but the actual flap is still present but stuck in its last position as if the controls for it are stuck (either retracted or extended). So, except for wings & stabs or after a collision, I don't see a problem with weight remaining the same after damage.
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Because in the game, when a part is damaged, weight is not removed because in real life, the landing gear would not just rip appart "just like that". It would crunch and bend inside the wheel well and the doors or hydraulic/pneumatic/electric lines receive damage also which would render the Landing Gear "part" useless. In most flaps damages for instance in AH, the 3D geometry of the part is removed but the actual flap is still present but stuck in its last position as if the controls for it are stuck (either retracted or extended). So, except for wings & stabs or after a collision, I don't see a problem with weight remaining the same after damage.
The only benefit I've ever found to breaking off my gear was on a plane that had a fixed gear that could not be retracted in the first place. I broke it off (on accident) during an AHXARL practice and it seemed like afterwards I was able to start passing people.. but I suppose it might have been in my head.
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That gets into the whole drag issue.
I think HTC has the code messed up for the drag from missing parts. In Rangoon I had a damaged wingman. He was in a 110C, and lost one side of his stabilizer. He lost some gas through gas leaks and was max cruising his way home. Because he was missing a stab he was out-running me at full throttle! I had him check his E6B readout and it was borderline faster than mine, and I was fully intact! I had to WEP to close any distance.
That's just one of many examples of planes reaching ridiculous speeds with parts missing. Some planes lose a wingtip and become nearly uncatchable by much faster planes trying to finish them off. Lose 2 wingtips and they fly significantly faster than they ever could at the same alt when intact.
I think HTC's drag code is a bit off with regards to damage. That can't be right. I don't think he models in the fact that jagged ripped off parts add drag as well. It's not a surgical or intentional change, there would be significant turbulence over the area and disrupted lift and added drag.
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Look like it would through the CG off ..
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Somebody else once posted it looks like (when dealing with wing damage) the weight of the missing wing is still there, just the lift is lost. That makes it very hard to recover on some planes.
I don't recall if HTC ever responded to confirm/correct the notion, though.
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Somebody else once posted it looks like (when dealing with wing damage) the weight of the missing wing is still there, just the lift is lost. That makes it very hard to recover on some planes.
I don't recall if HTC ever responded to confirm/correct the notion, though.
I don't know...just seems to me if you're missing things like wings you've got a lot bigger worries than just the performance degradation of the improper aircraft weight. :D
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What about when you lose enough to want to run home, and all of a sudden are 50mph faster than you used to be?
It's a game-changer when folks are trying to chase you down. It changes them killing you to you getting away.
It's a significant boost. F4u loses a wingtip (or both?), suddenly outruns La7s on deck. Or fill in whatever example you like.
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In theory though, shouldn't the lost weight be offset by the extra drag caused by the now deflected aerilons, rudder, and elevator, just to keep the thing flying?
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I think we've all forgotten that the WWI arena patch intorduced an upgraded damage model. Last I checked/heard, it has not been implimented/integrated with the WWII content yet (and will take a lot of time), but we can assume when it does that damage will be represented in the game for all aircraft much better than what we have now and that until then things are gonna stay the same as they have been...
So I guess what I'm saying, is that nobody has broght up for a while in the community the matter of the WWII aircraft getting the updated damage models in the foreable future, as we've been told.
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In SAPPmode the plane does get lighter.
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I think we've all forgotten that the WWI arena patch intorduced an upgraded damage model. Last I checked/heard, it has not been implimented/integrated with the WWII content yet (and will take a lot of time), but we can assume when it does that damage will be represented in the game for all aircraft much better than what we have now and that until then things are gonna stay the same as they have been...
The damage model will not be like WW1. That's going to be unique to that arena, per some comments from HTC staff. What we'll get in WW2 (and we are already seeing this) is more parts, more finer resolution of damage. We will not get 10 chunks of wings to tear off nor loss of lift from bullet holes, like I think we have in WW1.
What we will see are more finer details, like left and right stabs, gear doors, visuals on flaps, elevators, ailerons, rudders, and overall improvements. It will not be like the WW1 setup though.
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This thread has come to the point where it gets very interesting!
Damage model overhaul is not a new subject but is it really a project underway?
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This thread has come to the point where it gets very interesting!
Damage model overhaul is not a new subject but is it really a project underway?
colision modeling could use dome tweaks :D
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In SAPPmode the plane does get lighter.
Just to be offset by your cases of margarita mix, blenders, shakers and ice. So it all works out in the end.
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Just to be offset by your cases of margarita mix, blenders, shakers and ice. So it all works out in the end.
You should know by now that no ritas on the rocks are allowed. All ritas are to be frozen..... the choice is salt or no salt on the rim.
Mixes are frowned upon. Simply Cuervo tequila, Leroux triplesec, and limeaid.
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The collision model is fine. Player perception of the collision model could use some adjustments!
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The collision model is fine. Player perception of the collision model could use some adjustments!
Maybe he meant damage model? :headscratch:
Collision model is directly affected by the damage model.
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You should know by now that no ritas on the rocks are allowed. All ritas are to be frozen..... the choice is salt or no salt on the rim.
Mixes are frowned upon. Simply Cuervo tequila, Leroux triplesec, and limeaid.
oh come on candy, ya want a snowcone with that? the only way to have a good margarita is on the rocks...otherwise all you're getting is an icee
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You should know by now that no ritas on the rocks are allowed. All ritas are to be frozen..... the choice is salt or no salt on the rim.
Mixes are frowned upon. Simply Cuervo tequila, Leroux triplesec, and limeaid.
still need the ice for the "frozen," and "mix" would be anything you choose. I prefer a little Cointreau.