Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: F22RaptorDude on May 29, 2011, 12:00:18 AM
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NEW YORK (AP) — A 4-year-old boy playing with his young brothers in a bedroom was fatally mauled by a family dog that had been feared by neighbors, police said.
Jayelin Graham suffered horrifying wounds to his head, neck and torso Friday night in the assault at his mother's apartment in Brooklyn's Brownsville section.
His mother told police that when she tried to intervene, the dog, a male Cane Corso mastiff, turned on her, too. Even with the help of a neighbor who rushed to help after hearing her screams, she was unable to save the child, police said.
Police and firefighters arrived quickly and took Jayelin to a hospital, where he was pronounced dead. The dog was sedated and taken to a shelter.
Neighbor Anthony Brown told the Daily News the dog was a known menace.
"It was a violent dog," he said. "Dangerous. A big dog. The whole block is scared of that dog."
Police removed the dog from the house in a cage after the attack, along with other pets including a German shepherd. Investigators were unsure why the dog attacked. As of late Saturday afternoon, no charges had been filed.
The boy's great-grandfather, Ameer Jamaal-Uddin, told The New York Times the dogs belonged to the mother's boyfriend.
The apartment building's superintendent, Kenny Risher, told reporters that he had occasionally seen the man training his dogs to bite in the street in front of the building. The family also owned a rabbit that was recently eaten by one of the dogs, as well as a parrot and a snake, Risher said.
"People were scared of those dogs," he said. "This was a tragedy waiting to happen."
Thing is the fact this same exact problem exits down the street. Dogs kept getting out of the fence, dug a hole under, animal control called 4+ times, chased my sister, I mean the cops leave notices and they did nothing until their pitbull was taken away. They got it back and you know what they did? They put a brick in the hole which the dogs pushed aside. They have another crossbreed which has knocked my friends sister off her bike, chased my sister down the street(someone got a video of it and used it in court) and has charged me and nipped at me before. Pittbulls are already illegal to have in some counties and the fact that its not here is disturbing, also being tied in with the home owners who simple don't give a Donkeys butt about safety.
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As you have told doesn't sound like it is the dogs fault. Sounds like the owners fault. Any breed of dog can be vicious if its owner doesn't handle it properly.
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As you have told doesn't sound like it is the dogs fault. Sounds like the owners fault. Any breed of dog can be vicious if its owner doesn't handle it properly.
Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
Maybe slightly more so. However, in every case I have ever seen or heard of always stupid people. If there are good owners the chance of anything happen is microscopic.
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Maybe slightly more so. However, in every case I have ever seen or heard of always stupid people. If there are good owners the chance of anything happen is microscopic.
Correct, but sadly there aren't always good owners, and because of them other people suffer.
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Only took three posts, including the OP. :rofl
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one stupid guy on my city got killed by his pitbull aswell.
the guy was robbed on the street some day and then got traumatized. then he bougth a pitbull to "protect his house" but the son of a (&%! was feeding the dog only pepper and no water to piss the dog off and also was teasing it the whole time. one day the dog got free of his leash and tore the owner to pieces, family found his body.
The end? the dog got "sacrificed". :frown:
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
you have a lot to learn...pitbulls were bred to be aggressive toward other animals, specifically dogs...not humans. it takes a stupid human to make it agressive toward humans...they're biggest fault is they are very protective of their owners...and if the owner is stupid, well. i've been around pits a lot...and i've seen toddlers playing with them without any problems at all, and it comes down to training. you have to understand the dog in order to train the dog...most people who get pits don't know the first thing about them, or any dog for that matter.
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Pits might be naturally aggressive but if you train them right and provide them a loving home they will be sweethearts just like any dog. Bad dogs don't come from good families or owners.
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pits are banned in ohio. doesnt stop ppl from owning some tho.
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Overview: The Cane Corso Mastiff is believed to have descended from the old Roman war dogs, Canis Pugnax. They were highly valued by hunters and farmers because of their immense power, loyalty, speed, courage, and willingness to work. Throughout the Middle Ages, these dogs were terrific hunters and wonderful bull baiters. The Cane Corso Mastiff today is still used on farms and hunting purposes. This breed is very powerful and sturdy giving him a bad reputation of being aggressive.
Character: The Cane Corso Mastiff is somewhat fearless and is very devoted. Due to the power of this breed, he is not recommended for everyone but does make a lovely companion given the right training and socialization. This breed is a fearless family protector but does make a wonderful companion given the right environment. The Cane Corso Mastiff has a very balanced temperament, and despite his size and all around appearance, makes a great family pet.
Temperament: Aloof around strangers, protective, and loyal, this breed does make a good companion. The Cane Corso Mastiff does make a lovely companion, but should not be left unsupervised around children due to his sheer size and power. He is very dependable around children in his family, but can be protective around others. The Cane Corso Mastiff can live in peace with cats and other dogs however should not be trusted around very small animals.
Care: The Cane Corso Mastiff is a very light shedder making grooming very simple. A wipe down with a damp cloth and occasional brushing and/or combing with a firm bristle or rubber brush should be sufficient. The Cane Corso Mastiff requires minimal grooming, although around the mouth should be cleaned regularly as this breed has the tendency to drool quite a bit. The eyes should also require care professionally as they are very droopy which can cause irritation.
Training: The Cane Corso Mastiff is not recommended for the average handler. He is very powerful and can be dominant if not in the right home. The handler should always remain firm and consistent. A variety of training methods work best with this somewhat willful breed. A dominant handler is a must. The Cane Corso Mastiff is very trainable being agile and intelligent. He is very responsive to training, however obedience classes are recommended at an early stage in life.
Activity: The Cane Corso Mastiff needs lots of exercise to stay healthy and active. This breed requires a fenced in yard to maintain his powerful muscles and immense strength. The Cane Corso Mastiff is an ideal jogging companion and loves to go on long hikes with his master. This breed requires at least 90 minutes of exercise per day, however more is recommended to keep his muscles in great shape.
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i knew this would be posted here as soon as i saw it on the homepage
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First time a dog charges at me, the wife, or my kids aggressively, its going to die
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my buddy had a pit bull we played cards on,he would sit still and my buddy would place a poker table top on his head,we would play cards for hours,the dog would just sit there,TRUE STORY
my point any dog is only as good as it's owner sad story about the child,but it could have happened with any dog
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It's all about the owner ,and any dog can turn nasty !
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive
So are Chihuahuas.
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:rofl
chihuahuas are very aggressive dogs. Not quite as dangerous as a pit tough. Even if a chihuahua bite me I could still punt him good. Something I would not try with a pitbull or any breed that is higher than my knee. There was another thread somewhere in here where someone listed the # of bites vs the injuries sustained. And the most injuries were (surprisingly :noid) from the dogs with the most powerfull jaws. There are dogs that are uncontrollable as there are owner that don't train them properly or rather expect the dog to behave by themselves. Legislation about this is very vague and often the police cannot do jack about bad behavior from dogs AND their owners unless ther are injuries or death. In fact they are mostly powerless, as the punishement for action that endander the public in general, are mostly ridiculous unless there is death and injuries.
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So are Chihuahuas.
I thought they were just annoying as heck, my great grandmother lived next door to a person who had 3 of them and whever ever we did come over there their barking was non stop. But I had no idea they were aggressive :uhoh
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
ya that is BS i found a Pitbull about a year ago in our yard that had been hurt badly most likely by another dog with bite marks all over him and some of his lacerations
in the front leg going to the bone. the first thing this fully grown pitbull did is come up to me and puts his front paws up on my lap and slowly makes his way up on me and sits there and licks me. after about 5 min i pick him up and bring him in my house give him some food and water. after taking him to a vet and getting him fixed up this dog is still mine to this day and is playful and has never shown his teeth to me in a aggressive matter.
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ya that is BS i found a Pitbull about a year ago in our yard that had been hurt badly most likely by another dog with bite marks all over him and some of his lacerations
in the front leg going to the bone. the first thing this fully grown pitbull did is come up to me and puts his front paws up on my lap and slowly makes his way up on me and sits there and licks me. after about 5 min i pick him up and bring him in my house give him some food and water. after taking him to a vet and getting him fixed up this dog is still mine to this day and is playful and has never shown his teeth to me in a aggressive matter.
Reminds me of the stray walking around Monday, was scared until she came up to me that night while me and my friend were walking and rolled over for a stomach rub, had to send give her to animal control cause when I looked for her the next day she was overheated and breathing really bad. Let me get a picture of her, I took it from my phone but getting it onto the computer is a problem.
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
you have no clue what you are talking about
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you have no clue what you are talking about
That happens alot, sorrry.
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Raptor, you should go outside, grab a basketball. And dribble it for a loooonnnnggg time.
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That happens alot, sorrry.
:O
there is hope for you :aok
and totally sux about what happened to that family
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Here's when we first saw her at my pool(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/243261_174764519245808_100001367835388_398249_4788606_o.jpg) When she approached me that night. (http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/242853_174764429245817_100001367835388_398248_4933369_o.jpg) Me and my friend were taking care of her after we had her follow us home, He was sitting in the drive way and I was sitting on the truck bed of my dads truck looking down. (http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/240871_174764352579158_100001367835388_398245_4635452_o.jpg) And this is he next day, last time I ever saw her again. (http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/240345_175909032464690_100001367835388_404354_4463342_o.jpg)
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Raptor, you should go outside, grab a basketball. And dribble it for a loooonnnnggg time.
Summer camp starts tomorrow so I figured i'd be doing stuff. Wednesday i'm going to a firing range with the group and we are being briefed on gun safety for 2 hours, then shoot for 3 hours, then hiking Thursday and Kayaking Friday. Then the week after its preparing for camping and survival lessons. Its all about responsibility and team work. I told you a few weeks ago but everyone gave me the :huh face when I mentioned it.
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The sad thing is a 4yo child was the victim. :frown: That is tragic.
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Here's when we first saw her at my pool(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/243261_174764519245808_100001367835388_398249_4788606_o.jpg) When she approached me that night. (http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/242853_174764429245817_100001367835388_398248_4933369_o.jpg) Me and my friend were taking care of her after we had her follow us home, He was sitting in the drive way and I was sitting on the truck bed of my dads truck looking down. (http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/240871_174764352579158_100001367835388_398245_4635452_o.jpg) And this is he next day, last time I ever saw her again. (http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/240345_175909032464690_100001367835388_404354_4463342_o.jpg)
Aww, it's so cute! Poor thing, left out in the heat like that.
-Penguin
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Raptor that is really cool! that dog is really beaultiful.
Me and My girlfriend already have dogs at our places but we decided to get one dog that was rescued from the streets, i dont know how the name of the organization is in english but it is one "Canil" (portuguese). and man that dog is so dum and i mean really fool he wouldnt last a day back on streets (he was ran over) that dog is silly and i love that.
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Aww, it's so cute! Poor thing, left out in the heat like that.
-Penguin
I know, when I found her the next day I cried cause of her condition. And ever since animal control took her, she plagues my sleep, I can't get a solid 3 hours of sleep without waking up cause of her. :(
Raptor that is really cool! that dog is really beaultiful.
Me and My girlfriend already have dogs at our places but we decided to get one dog that was rescued from the streets, i dont know how the name of the organization is in english but it is one "Canil" (portuguese). and man that dog is so dum and i mean really fool he wouldnt last a day back on streets (he was ran over) that dog is silly and i love that.
I see dogs on the side of the road every now and then, brings a tear to my eye every time. When I was in 6th grade I was riding the bus home and this little girl saw her parents on the side and the bus stopped, her German Shepard had been hit and died in her fathers arms.
My main concern was heat, lack of water, and the fact that she might get hit by a car. I still wonder to myself If I did the right thing, I would have taken her in myself if my parents didn't hate dogs with a passion.
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My mom doesn't like dogs, either. It's sad, really, I love dogs; they're like living, breathing stuffed animals that you just can't help but love.
-Penguin
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Even then, i've been attacked by a bulldog before, the owner got it off before the damage was to bad, and I've also been attacked by a German Shepard, and most of the time when i'm around dogs they growl and nip at me, but for once this dog didn't show its teeth or growl or anything. I really wish I could give her my home :cry
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Geez, you don't seem to have much luck with dogs, do you?
-Penguin
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One point that hasn't been mentioned yet is maybe these "aggressive dogs" aren't aggressive at all by nature, but instead, the perception of their aggressiveness attracts "tough guy" owners to that specific breed. And these d0uchenozzles turn the dog into a monster.
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One point that hasn't been mentioned yet is maybe these "aggressive dogs" aren't aggressive at all by nature, but instead, the perception of their aggressiveness attracts "tough guy" owners to that specific breed. And these d0uchenozzles turn the dog into a monster.
as far as I know there is only one truly "naturally aggressive" dog, at a dog show the judge is not allowed to even touch them.....(but I guess that depends on the show)
I cant remember for the life of me what the breed name is :headscratch:
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I think most folks who own "dangerous" animals that haven't attacked anyone (yet) feel like they're the "good", "knowledgeable", owners.
They don't have anything to worry about, because the "other guy" is the moron who'll mess up something with his dog, and lose control for that terrible moment.
How do you know if you're in the "right" group of dog owners?
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I think most folks who own "dangerous" animals that haven't attacked anyone (yet) feel like they're the "good", "knowledgeable", owners.
They don't have anything to worry about, because the "other guy" is the moron who'll mess up something with his dog, and lose control for that terrible moment.
How do you know if you're in the "right" group of dog owners?
I don't think it is like that at all. Bad dogs don't come from good families.
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Fila Brasileiro
most aggressive dog in the world :aok
I read somewhere :headscratch: that this dog will NOT accept strangers, and judges are advised NOT to handle it during a show.
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I have a simple solution to this. If a dog attacks someone outside of it's own yard, the dogs owner is nuetered. Solves two problems, one nobody would risk having a poorly trained dog, and secondly may stop some stupid people from breeding :aok
:salute
BigRat
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I have a simple solution to this. If a dog attacks someone outside of it's own yard, the dogs owner is nuetered. Solves two problems, one nobody would risk having a poorly trained dog, and secondly may stop some stupid people from breeding :aok
:salute
BigRat
I'm sure something similar is already incorporated in Sharia Law.
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I have a simple solution to this. If a dog attacks someone outside of it's own yard, the dogs owner is nuetered. Solves two problems, one nobody would risk having a poorly trained dog, and secondly may stop some stupid people from breeding :aok
:salute
BigRat
I agree
Geez, you don't seem to have much luck with dogs, do you?
-Penguin
This is the first dog ever to not bark at me, so i think the answer is yes lol
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
Raptor you need to look the facts up. a REAL pitbull, a PURE bread pitbull is not vicious at all. As Ink has stated in other posts, Pitbull on the fact sheets are considered ANYTHING with pitbull in its blood, so pitbull lab, pitbull mastiff, pitbull boxer and so forth. I have had a pitbull Lab for over 6 years, we care for her like a child and have never had ONE problem with her. It is not the breed its the owner. You can teach a Chihuahua to fight and attack people if you wanted to.
This is my little baby, one of sweetest and nicest dogs ever. Dont get me wrong, if she doesnt know you she will bark. But we have never had one problem with her.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/bigbobCH/225088_218590381500297_100000480101864_846737_1160988_n1.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/bigbobCH/230444_218590441500291_100000480101864_846741_2974146_n.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee239/bigbobCH/DSCN0179.jpg)
-BigBOBCH
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My bad I meant to change what I said but I couldn't, but I fully understand what all of you are saying about Dogs not being naturally aggressive.
Also she's adorable!
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I don't think it is like that at all. Bad dogs don't come from good families.
So what constitutes a "good family" then?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pitbulls (other than their looks, they definitely don't appeal to me in that aspect). I just doubt that many of the folks who have dog-related problems consider themselves to be from "bad families". I doubt they expect problems will occur until after the fact. I'd never own one because I have no use for them (I use my dogs for hunting). My in-laws have several pits, and have never had issues with them.
I have lots of experience with dogs, and with training them (and other animals) to a higher level than most (hand and whistle signals, field dogs, falconry-trained field dogs, retrievers and pointers, etc). I've never had issues with any of them, except for one. I still have him (male Jack Russel terrier). He's a damn fine dog, but has a temper like a light-switch. He'll be fine for months, and then go into a 10 minute pissed-off mode for no reason. In those moments, he's definitely capable of hurting someone. He was much worse earlier, and has made great strides over the last 4-5 years, but he still has occasional "episodes". His real issue is with me, because he thinks he should be the top-dog in the house. He never has problems with my wife or kids anymore (although he's tried to assert dominance over my kids in the past), but he still occasionally thinks he can take me.
We're talking about a 13# animal that's definitely the "odd dog" in a string of other dogs that have never had problems. My family hasn't changed, but the dog is different...
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
we had a pitbull and he would never show any agression unless provoked to a good point. like when my neighbor shot him with his airsoft rifle. then my dog almost bit his arm off...
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we had a pitbull and he would never show any agression unless provoked to a good point. like when my neighbor shot him with his airsoft rifle. then my dog almost bit his arm off...
Thats the dumbest thing i've heard all day, well he could have put his arm in its mouth then shot it :lol
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Thats the dumbest thing i've heard all day, well he could have put his arm in its mouth then shot it :lol
ok...my dog was shot by my old neighbor with an airsoft rifle. he got pissed and went beserk on him.
:rolleyes:
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ok...my dog was shot by my old neighbor with an airsoft rifle. he got pissed and went beserk on him.
:rolleyes:
I can imagine, my friend did the same thing to his friends bull dog.
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we had a pitbull and he would never show any agression unless provoked to a good point. like when my neighbor shot him with his airsoft rifle. then my dog almost bit his arm off...
chances are it was NOT a APBT
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Pits might be naturally aggressive but if you train them right and provide them a loving home they will be sweethearts just like any dog. Bad dogs don't come from good families or owners.
a good friend of mine had two of them. VERY good dogs. unfortunately, she had to have one put down, as the dog was old, and dying.........it's a shame too.
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redman...said it before I will say it again...she is so damn beautiful :aok
So what constitutes a "good family" then?
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against pitbulls (other than their looks, they definitely don't appeal to me in that aspect). I just doubt that many of the folks who have dog-related problems consider themselves to be from "bad families". I doubt they expect problems will occur until after the fact. I'd never own one because I have no use for them (I use my dogs for hunting). My in-laws have several pits, and have never had issues with them.
I have lots of experience with dogs, and with training them (and other animals) to a higher level than most (hand and whistle signals, field dogs, falconry-trained field dogs, retrievers and pointers, etc). I've never had issues with any of them, except for one. I still have him (male Jack Russel terrier). He's a damn fine dog, but has a temper like a light-switch. He'll be fine for months, and then go into a 10 minute pissed-off mode for no reason. In those moments, he's definitely capable of hurting someone. He was much worse earlier, and has made great strides over the last 4-5 years, but he still has occasional "episodes". His real issue is with me, because he thinks he should be the top-dog in the house. He never has problems with my wife or kids anymore (although he's tried to assert dominance over my kids in the past), but he still occasionally thinks he can take me.
We're talking about a 13# animal that's definitely the "odd dog" in a string of other dogs that have never had problems. My family hasn't changed, but the dog is different...
what are you kidding me the APBT is an absolutely awesome hunting dog,insanely easy to train...all right I will stop there I know I am biased for my APBT...me personally I will never own another breed of dog.
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Problem isn't the dog, it is the fact that a certain kind of owner is attracted to certain breeds and that kind of owner wants the dog to be mean and macho and they take steps to make the dog so. The fact that they want to be seen as a manly man and they think their dog reflects on their masculinity is the cause of the problems.
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Fila Brasileiro
most aggressive dog in the world :aok
I read somewhere :headscratch: that this dog will NOT accept strangers, and judges are advised NOT to handle it during a show.
The fila is a rare dog breed that is naturally aggressive,I've seen them at dog shows and the judges dont even come close to examine the dogs.The owner must show the "bite' to the judge so he/she can score the dog appropiately.
The fila is an exception to the rule,most dogs are pack animals and thus they are social and need a leader! The Fila was bred as a slave retrival dog along with a couple other mastifs that may or may not be extinct.
A "real" pitbull will not have or show any human aggression,it's simply not allowed and any human agrresive dogs were culled from the gene pool. However in the last 30 or 40 years they have been bred with other dogs and trained to be attack dogs and this has all but ruined the breed!
I've been raising "Bull" breeds for over 30 years and never has a dog of mine caused a problem with people,other dogs yes but only because those dogs were roaming free!
:salute
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So are Chihuahuas.
one bit me and i got to see how far it could fly
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Summer camp starts tomorrow so I figured i'd be doing stuff. Wednesday i'm going to a firing range with the group and we are being briefed on gun safety for 2 hours, then shoot for 3 hours, then hiking Thursday and Kayaking Friday. Then the week after its preparing for camping and survival lessons. Its all about responsibility and team work. I told you a few weeks ago but everyone gave me the :huh face when I mentioned it.
learned gun safety and how to shoot in 30 minutes,i have 11 medals from local shooting competitions :D (yes that was a look at me post :cheers:)
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learned gun safety and how to shoot in 30 minutes,i have 11 medals from local shooting competitions :D (yes that was a look at me post :cheers:)
But i'm actually going? Hell i'm getting my friend to record most of it, and for us gun safety is an hour and a half, I don't know how many people will be there though, most people in my area(teens) are terrified of cops.
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Problem isn't the dog, it is the fact that a certain kind of owner is attracted to certain breeds and that kind of owner wants the dog to be mean and macho and they take steps to make the dog so. The fact that they want to be seen as a manly man and they think their dog reflects on their masculinity is the cause of the problems.
Yep.
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But i'm actually going? Hell i'm getting my friend to record most of it, and for us gun safety is an hour and a half, I don't know how many people will be there though, most people in my area(teens) are terrified of cops.
lol I learned it all from a guy whos best friend is a cop
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redman...said it before I will say it again...she is so damn beautiful :aok
what are you kidding me the APBT is an absolutely awesome hunting dog,insanely easy to train...all right I will stop there I know I am biased for my APBT...me personally I will never own another breed of dog.
What type of hunting have you trained yours for? What type of hunting are other people using them for? I understand the breed was originally bred for bear and bull-baiting, but I've never seen or heard that they were intended for hunting other than as a distant secondary use when bull and bear-baiting became illegal? As a terrier, I've heard they were used for ratting as well?
I've heard them described with "hunting" as a generic use, but no specifics. What are they awesome at hunting (serious question)?
Regardless, they wouldn't be suitable for the type of hunting I use my dogs for (I use my dogs for specialized hunting, which MOST dogs don't have the breeding to be good-enough at to be worth my time; it's not a cut against the pit as a breed). And since I expect my dogs to be of use to me in the field, a pit (or most other breeds) wouldn't make the "cut". I expect my dogs to be well-trained and well-behaved around the home of course, but I don't have dogs just to have dogs. They have a primary purpose, which is hunting. I use my JRT for the types of hunting it excels at, and my German Short Hair for what it excels at. They seldom hunt together, because they seldom compliment each other (for my uses).
"Easy to train" is a plus, but not a requirement of mine. It certainly doesn't take priority over the traits I require.
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Mtnman,
Some pits and pitcrosses are use to hunt hogs,the Dogo de Argentina is a highly develope crossbreed that specializes in wild boar hunting were the dog is used as a catch dog and holds the boar while the hunt dispatches it with his knife.
The pitbulls and most terriers are all from some type for hunting line,mind you the pitbull was developed with a specific purpose in mind and that wasnt really anything to do with hunting. BTW,pitbulls were not used for bull or bear baiting,they came about as a result of the outlawing of baiting animals as the type of dog that was used for such things didnt make very "good" fighters. The fights ended up with 2 dogs just holding fast and nothing much came of it so in order to "liven" up the fights terrier blood was added to the bulldogs.
The bulldogs of those days looked nothing like the modern English bulldog but more resembled the modern day American bulldogs.
Most of the bull breeds today,with the exception of the english bulldog,are general purpose dogs,meaning they can be trained to do many different things.You could train one to retrieve ducks or pheasent but that doesnt mean they'd be good at it.... :lol
I have a pair of English Staffordshire bullterriers ATM but I raised mostly English Bull Terriers,the ones wiith the egg shaped heads,1 of my Bullies went on to title as a UDX,basically could have qualified as a police dog. Unfortunately just because he could do the job doesnt mean he would have been good at it,he was too friendly! At a dogshow I felt him tug on his leash,this was odd,I looked down and he had a dauchsund clamped down on his face,he looked at me as if to say would you please remove this annoyance!!!
Ya so much for the blood thirsty pitbulls!!! :rolleyes:
:salute
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mtnman go on youtube and search for new zealand pig hunting. They use them a bit for that here. Typically they use dogs to bale and hold the pig while the hunter will knife it through the heart. So the video's aren't for softies (though I doubt you'll be worried). Feral pigs are a big problem here and the thick bush makes firearms difficult, so this method is the best (short of poison drops).
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Mtnman,
Some pits and pitcrosses are use to hunt hogs,the Dogo de Argentina is a highly develope crossbreed that specializes in wild boar hunting were the dog is used as a catch dog and holds the boar while the hunt dispatches it with his knife.
The pitbulls and most terriers are all from some type for hunting line,mind you the pitbull was developed with a specific purpose in mind and that wasnt really anything to do with hunting. BTW,pitbulls were not used for bull or bear baiting,they came about as a result of the outlawing of baiting animals as the type of dog that was used for such things didnt make very "good" fighters. The fights ended up with 2 dogs just holding fast and nothing much came of it so in order to "liven" up the fights terrier blood was added to the bulldogs.
The bulldogs of those days looked nothing like the modern English bulldog but more resembled the modern day American bulldogs.
Most of the bull breeds today,with the exception of the english bulldog,are general purpose dogs,meaning they can be trained to do many different things.You could train one to retrieve ducks or pheasent but that doesnt mean they'd be good at it.... :lol
I have a pair of English Staffordshire bullterriers ATM but I raised mostly English Bull Terriers,the ones wiith the egg shaped heads,1 of my Bullies went on to title as a UDX,basically could have qualified as a police dog. Unfortunately just because he could do the job doesnt mean he would have been good at it,he was too friendly! At a dogshow I felt him tug on his leash,this was odd,I looked down and he had a dauchsund clamped down on his face,he looked at me as if to say would you please remove this annoyance!!!
Ya so much for the blood thirsty pitbulls!!! :rolleyes:
:salute
MtnMan...cant say too much more then what Morfiend already said... you could train them to hunt anything. me personally I don't hunt...I just know my dogs :D
Morfiend....that is the typical background that you will hear from someone who studied APBT for sure, and it very well may be the truth, there are some who think the APBT is the original English Bulldog and was never breed with the terriers, the Half n Half or Staffordshire terrier(the dog's you have now) is the one that was breed with the terriers, and the APBT was brought to America before the outlawing of bull and Bear baiting.
still there are others who believe that the American Bulldog is the original Bulldog...which I don't believe.
I fall more into the line of APBT is the original Bulldog...but I am not positive, there is no way to be actually.
I have read every thing there is to read about the APBT's, have seen some art of the original bulldog and they are very similar, except back then they did don't breed for look at all so you got a wide range of look and stature. it wasn't until they changed the name from APBT to Staffordshire terrier did they start breeding for look, and this is were you get the modern look for the Amstaff and APBT of today.
"fighting pitdog's" were breed for their "gameness" which I am sure you know, so thinking this,you can surmise that they came in all shapes, sizes and looks, the best fights were the smaller dogs so they eventually became smaller then they originally were in England.
also from every thing I have read the "Bull terrier" was never used for fighting itself, but his ancestors were the Half and Half or Staffordshire terrier's, mixed with the English White terrier.
ether way I love my American Pit Bull Terrier
:salute
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Summer camp starts tomorrow so I figured i'd be doing stuff. Wednesday i'm going to a firing range with the group and we are being briefed on gun safety for 2 hours, then shoot for 3 hours, then hiking Thursday and Kayaking Friday. Then the week after its preparing for camping and survival lessons. Its all about responsibility and team work. I told you a few weeks ago but everyone gave me the :huh face when I mentioned it.
Does this one count as a keeper?
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pits are banned in ohio. doesnt stop ppl from owning some tho.
Did your parents have any children that lived?
It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant citizens are about the laws of the land where they reside
Breed specific canines repealed and stricken from the state law.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Ohio+Revised+Code+Section+955.22D (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Ohio+Revised+Code+Section+955.22D)
This may help.
http://www.rif.org/ (http://www.rif.org/)
There are still some county or city limit specific bans, but it is indeed, not state-wide.
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You could train one to retrieve ducks or pheasent but that doesnt mean they'd be good at it.... :lol
I'm not interested in the retrieving part :D Retrieving is actually a pretty big "negative" in my world. As I'm sure you're aware, any dog can be taught to do many things, but not necessarily to the level it would need to do them to be adequate for the job.
What I need the dog to do is go out and find a group of pheasants or grouse, get close enough to them to get the birds to freeze, and then lock on point so I know where the birds are. I need the dog to hold the birds there until I'm ready, which could be as little as 3-4 minutes, or could be up to 30+ minutes, depending on circumstances.
Once I get there, I need the dog to hold its point while I "gently" flush a few of the birds. I need the dog to not move or flush the rest of the birds, but continue holding the rest of the flock there in case I need another flush.
The dog would need an extremely good nose (my JRT can't compete with my GSH in that regard, but I bought him because for the type of hunting I use him for a good nose is actually a negative). It'd also need to be able to function in the field in temps between 75F and -20F, in both wet and dry conditions. The nose is a big deal, as is the drive to locate the game; but the breeding to not break in and try to grab it is paramount (the point is really just a breeding-enhanced, prolonged, "pounce").
The terrier doesn't have such a good nose (comparatively) and hunts primarily by sight. His job is to go into every little nook and cranny, under brush piles, through small (10") culverts, etc, and flush rabbits. Once he flushes, he can chase, but when the bird gets there he needs to break off. I also need him to lose track of the rabbit and quit chasing if the bird misses (which can be a problem with a dog with a good nose). I also need him to look cute and non-threatening, because he's hunting off-leash around industrial parks, golf courses, town edges, etc, and I don't want people to feel he's a potential threat.
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I'm not interested in the retrieving part :D Retrieving is actually a pretty big "negative" in my world. As I'm sure you're aware, any dog can be taught to do many things, but not necessarily to the level it would need to do them to be adequate for the job.
What I need the dog to do is go out and find a group of pheasants or grouse, get close enough to them to get the birds to freeze, and then lock on point so I know where the birds are. I need the dog to hold the birds there until I'm ready, which could be as little as 3-4 minutes, or could be up to 30+ minutes, depending on circumstances.
Once I get there, I need the dog to hold its point while I "gently" flush a few of the birds. I need the dog to not move or flush the rest of the birds, but continue holding the rest of the flock there in case I need another flush.
The dog would need an extremely good nose (my JRT can't compete with my GSH in that regard, but I bought him because for the type of hunting I use him for a good nose is actually a negative). It'd also need to be able to function in the field in temps between 75F and -20F, in both wet and dry conditions. The nose is a big deal, as is the drive to locate the game; but the breeding to not break in and try to grab it is paramount (the point is really just a breeding-enhanced, prolonged, "pounce").
The terrier doesn't have such a good nose (comparatively) and hunts primarily by sight. His job is to go into every little nook and cranny, under brush piles, through small (10") culverts, etc, and flush rabbits. Once he flushes, he can chase, but when the bird gets there he needs to break off. I also need him to lose track of the rabbit and quit chasing if the bird misses (which can be a problem with a dog with a good nose). I also need him to look cute and non-threatening, because he's hunting off-leash around industrial parks, golf courses, town edges, etc, and I don't want people to feel he's a potential threat.
Hopefully you are paying these dogs at least 50k/year. :D
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Mtnman,
Your quite correct in your assement,the terriers dont have a good nose,they are more sight hunters,there's plenty of whippet blood in the terriers and the whippets are sight hounds like greyhounds,salukies and afgan hounds.Trying to train a terrier to hold a "set" goes against everything it's been bred to do,namely to dispatch pests!
There have been Bullterriers that have won hearding events against the best border collies around but again this is an exception to the rule.
Ink, not sure where you read that the APBT is the original bulldog because nothing could be farther from the truth,the APBT is a direct desendand of the Staffie,they were brought to the Americas in the early 1800 and over time were bred to be somewhat larger than the original Staffie. As for the Bullterrier not being used to fight,well Mr James Hinks developed a strain of "white" dogs for the Westminister pits,these were very "showy" dogs,being white they show the blood to the crowd and afterall pit fighting is a blood sport.
Problems come with white dogs,they tend to develope blue eyes and as a result deafness so the Staffie came to the rescue and was mixed back into the bullterrier lines and we got the Colored Bullterrier,which is sometimes comsidered a sepperate breed from the whites!
I've spent the last 30 years raising,showing and training dogs,I've made it my hobby to study everything I can find on fighting dogs.Now dont get me wrong,I detest this type of thing but to ignore the fact that these dogs were bred for combat wouldnt make me a very good owner.
All Mollosor type dogs are not the kind of dog for first time dog owners or dog owners who think a tough dog makes them tough.Many of these dogs are over 100 lbs,thats a large animal regaurdless of wheter it's a pet or not and has to potential to do harm. Any dog over 30 lbs can be dangerous,they all have teeth,can bite and are much faster than any human so you need to respect these animals and not be foolish. If you see an aggressive dog steer clear of it,any roaming dog should be avoided and as much as I love dogs I wouldnt hesitate to shoot or kill any dog that threatened me.
Unfortunately where I live pitbulls are now illegal so I will never own another staffie,I could get another Bullterrier though as they're exempt from this law! Ya stupid,I could get a 100 plus pound Cane coso or Presa but I cant get another 30 lb Staffie because it "looks" wrong..... :rolleyes:
:salute
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Hopefully you are paying these dogs at least 50k/year. :D
Well, they do get "free" room and board for the majority of their time :D And free medical care... It's just that when it's time to work, I expect them to hold up their end of the bargain!
Plus, they get to live with me, and I figure that adds infinitely to their "wages" :D
There's also the side of me that feels a dog that isn't being used as its breeding intends is being wasted, or at the least robbed. And if it's being bred without that particular breeds original intent in mind, by people who have no concept of what goes into that, I feel it's "polluting" the genetics. There's nothing wrong with owning/loving a mixed breed, or poor-representation of a breed per se, but I definitely don't feel they should be allowed to breed. The Cocker Spaniel used to be a fantastic hunting dog...
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Ink, not sure where you read that the APBT is the original bulldog because nothing could be farther from the truth,the APBT is a direct desendand of the Staffie,they were brought to the Americas in the early 1800 and over time were bred to be somewhat larger than the original Staffie.
:salute
different sources through out the years...like I said...what you are siting is the typical "history" of the APBT...you can read what you site in the wiki.
I wasn't alive back then to know the truth of the matter.......I don't think that is the truth though. NO one can say definitively That it is FACT.
but whatever it does not matter one way or the other.
This I know- in every thing there is a top dog IE the best of the best
and the APBT is the greatest dog ever created by man :aok
and I am extremely unhappy with the fact that they will be completely gone.
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If and when I get a dog, I'll get a mutt. They're cheap, come in all shapes and sizes, and there are always more where the last came from. I love dogs :).
-Penguin
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and the APBT is the greatest dog ever created by man :aok
My Rotties beg to differ, sir.
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My Rotties beg to differ, sir.
:D
and the next door neighbor with the Weimaraner thinks the same.....does not matter though :P
in other words its all relative...personally I do not like rottie's
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I'm not a fan of the fact that small dogs bark at anything and everything. Personally, I'd probably punt one if it barked and got close to me.
-Penguin
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Most pit owners I've seen own one because it's an aggressive dog, Labs and other dogs just aren't cool to mouth breathers.
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Most pit owners I've seen own one because it's an aggressive dog, Labs and other dogs just aren't cool to mouth breathers.
too bad a real APBT is not aggressive, except to other dogs that is.
but I do understand what you are saying
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The "threat" of dog attack strikes me as very solvable, as dogs lack opposable thumbs.
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Read this in the local paper a few weeks ago, sad for all involved.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20110518_11_A11_CUTLIN363828&archive=yes
and the same police department did this just a couple years ago.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20091001_11_A8_ATulsa566192
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As you have told doesn't sound like it is the dogs fault. Sounds like the owners fault. Any breed of dog can be vicious if its owner doesn't handle it properly.
Maybe, but I can handle a vicious dachshund.
Once again, I don't understand people. Why have a dog in your house that can take you down if it chose too? As some posted already, some breeds are naturally more aggressive than others, and this one also has the weapons to do some damage if it chose too.
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Maybe, but I can handle a vicious dachshund.
Once again, I don't understand people. Why have a dog in your house that can take you down if it chose too? As some posted already, some breeds are naturally more aggressive than others, and this one also has the weapons to do some damage if it chose too.
Aggressiveness is different than violent.
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Maybe, but I can handle a vicious dachshund.
Once again, I don't understand people. Why have a dog in your house that can take you down if it chose too? As some posted already, some breeds are naturally more aggressive than others, and this one also has the weapons to do some damage if it chose too.
same reason why people take the suv to drive 1 block to the liquor store. they want to feel powerful. people forget dogs are animals that are governed by instinct. and there are cases where the family dog will kill a small child when the dog feel its place in the family is threatened. there's a hierarchy in the animal kingdom that no matter how much you train the animal you wont break. There's the alpha male then the rest based on strength. and if a dog feels that its place in that hierarchy is threatened then it will fight to protect it and possible kill whoever is in the way.
most of you guys are right, it's not the dogs fault but the owners. but only because they should have never gotten should a big dog just to prove their own manliness.
semp
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Aggressiveness is different than violent.
OK, lets play word game then lol. They all have different personalities. Just like humans can be violent so can dogs (training or not). You may get the impression that training fixes them all but all you see are the ones that made it through training. The ones that were aggressive or violent are at the shelters (I know because both my wife and I volunteer there).
So the question remains, why have an animal that could take you down at home? There are so many dogs to choose from.
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So the question remains, why have an animal that could take you down at home? There are so many dogs to choose from.
My favorite kind's of dogs are labs and retrievers, which I would never stray from. Are those too dangerous?
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My favorite kind's of dogs are labs and retrievers, which I would never stray from. Are those too dangerous?
Is this where I say no and you pull an example of a lab killing someone? Not cool :neener: Just read my post and try to understand what I am saying. Some breeds are naturally more aggressive. They were meant to be. We worked for years to make them that way. As I said, every dog could do it but a lab would be on the bottom of my list. If it did happen a lab would most likely back off after a size 13 shoe got on his ribs. A pit would just go for the kill. See the difference?
There is reason it is always the same dogs that end up doing the killing. Sure, the owners are responsible but it is not often that you hear of an Australian Shepperd killing people no matter how it was treated. It may bite, but wont go for the kill.
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Personally, I'd probably punt one if it barked and got close to me.
Maybe you should re-think owning a dog with an attitude like that.
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Maybe you should re-think owning a dog with an attitude like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhXEwQtggV4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhXEwQtggV4)
:noid
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If it did happen a lab would most likely back off after a size 13 shoe got on his ribs.
All dogs are likely to cease attacking after taking a round or three from any moderately powerful caliber at close range. Their lack of thumbs make it relatively easy to win the "arms race" with them. Am I confused here? I thought we humans had developed the technology to easily defend ourselves from large carnivores awhile back.
The most fierce and athletic dog I ever owned was a black lab-sheperd mix btw. I must also say, I strongly question the rationality of adding yet another intrusive and un-enforceable bit of legislation to the world when one is more likely to be killed by some mutant in the process of stealing your TV than a dog. And one is more likely to die from lightning strike than either...
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All dogs are likely to cease attacking after taking a round or three from any moderately powerful caliber at close range. Their lack of thumbs make it relatively easy to win the "arms race" with them. Am I confused here? I thought we humans had developed the technology to easily defend ourselves from large carnivores awhile back.
Too bad we have not yet developed the technology to . . . . bah, never mind :lol
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Is this where I say no and you pull an example of a lab killing someone? Not cool :neener: Just read my post and try to understand what I am saying. Some breeds are naturally more aggressive. They were meant to be. We worked for years to make them that way. As I said, every dog could do it but a lab would be on the bottom of my list. If it did happen a lab would most likely back off after a size 13 shoe got on his ribs. A pit would just go for the kill. See the difference?
There is reason it is always the same dogs that end up doing the killing. Sure, the owners are responsible but it is not often that you hear of an Australian Shepperd killing people no matter how it was treated. It may bite, but wont go for the kill.
Ded,
I hear what your saying and actually agrre to some degree,some people shouldnt have an animal that can take them down,like the tiger owner that was just mauled to death near where I live.
Somehow the post went from a Cane Corso killing a child to pitbulls killing! Look up the real stats on deaths by dogs and the pitbull isnt even at the top. Any dog over 30 lbs can be dangerous,might not get killed by a fat 30 lb jack russel but it could sure inflict some damage.
Personally,I think anyone wanting to own a dog should have a licsense,not the dog the owner,they should have to prove they can care for and handle thier dog of choice. I also agree with BnZ,no dog is ever going to take me down,hopefully I'm just slightly smarter than any dog so I should have the upper hand,opposing thumbs and all!
99% of the time it's the owners fault,1% of the time it's the dog's fault but it's so much easier to blame the dog.A well trained attack dog is more dangerous than a gun,simply because the dog can act on his own.Most people just dont understand dogs,those people should keep cats instead..... :rofl :rofl
The reason we're seeing more of this type of thing is because pitbulls have been outlawed! So instead a person that has no right in owning a pit goes out and gets a Mastif like the Corso or Persa simply because they cant own a pitbull.
I think I might just start raising hamsters,anyone heard of a hamster attacking???
:salute
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There is reason it is always the same dogs that end up doing the killing. Sure, the owners are responsible but it is not often that you hear of an Australian Shepperd killing people no matter how it was treated. It may bite, but wont go for the kill.
Maybe that's because the owner's of those dogs chose that dog because it was a "tough dog" and he made sure it was gonna be a "tough dog" from the day he got it, because he's a tough guy that needs to project his manliness through his pet. This type of owner isn't going to raise a loving family dog properly.
You don't hear about aggressive beagles probably because tough guys don't like beagles.
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Dogs like Pit Bulls are some peoples answer to low self esteem or insecurities.
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Maybe that's because the owner's of those dogs chose that dog because it was a "tough dog" and he made sure it was gonna be a "tough dog" from the day he got it, because he's a tough guy that needs to project his manliness through his pet. This type of owner isn't going to raise a loving family dog properly.
You don't hear about aggressive beagles probably because tough guys don't like beagles.
No argument there. But an aggressive beagle would make smile and say bring it were an aggressive pit is telling that to me lol. Don;t get me wrong, I don;t hate the dog or anything like that. After all the dog we are talking about in the OP was not a pit. But I would never get one while I have small kids. My Australian is just fine.
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Personally,I think anyone wanting to own a dog should have a licsense,not the dog the owner,they should have to prove they can care for and handle thier dog of choice. I also agree with BnZ,no dog is ever going to take me down,hopefully I'm just slightly smarter than any dog so I should have the upper hand,opposing thumbs and all!
It is a good idea that would fail. How many people do you know that should not be driving, but do have a license? :lol Although, it would be nice if in order to have a dog, you would have to present proof that it is taking training, going to the vet, does not sleep under a trailer, etc. But that could start WW3 lol
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I think you should have to have a license to have children.
Well, not really, but if I *were* going act in the manner of a pathological control freak and start licensing people to undertake every activity that could potentially be detrimental to others, having children would be at the VERY top of my list. Dogs, guns, and cars don't kill people, mutants raised without the sense of personal responsibility needed to handle any of the three kill people...
In any case, the contents of one's diet are more likely to be kill you than whatever Dire Threat the news outlets are waving in our faces this week. Wait, maybe I shouldn't say that, it will give someone the idea of anti-cheeseburger legislation.
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I guess I didnt express the licsense idea correctly,suppose you wanted a certain type of dog,if it's on the list you must show proof of responsibility,insurance,ability to control etc. Now I dont think someone wanting a toy poodle or beagle would need this but if you wanted a Rottie,pit,mastif,wolfhound,etc. it should be a requirement.
Myself I placed every dog I bred into a proper home,show dogs to show homes,pets to responcible owners with a neuter clause in the contract. I even inspected the homes of a couple of owners because I wasn't comfortable with the people!
Most breeders wouldnt and dont do these things and thats a large part of the problem,anyone can mate 2 dogs and call themselves a breeder!
Oh and BTW the most aggressive dog I've ever owned was a toy poodle,he was fierce and would attack anything,he just didnt look like much of a threat!
:salute
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I guess I didnt express the licsense idea correctly,suppose you wanted a certain type of dog,if it's on the list you must show proof of responsibility,insurance,ability to control etc. Now I dont think someone wanting a toy poodle or beagle would need this but if you wanted a Rottie,pit,mastif,wolfhound,etc. it should be a requirement.
Myself I placed every dog I bred into a proper home,show dogs to show homes,pets to responcible owners with a neuter clause in the contract. I even inspected the homes of a couple of owners because I wasn't comfortable with the people!
Most breeders wouldnt and dont do these things and thats a large part of the problem,anyone can mate 2 dogs and call themselves a breeder!
Anyone can knock boots and call themselves a parent...anyone can ingest a few mushrooms and start a religion...anyone can get an internet connection and start posting dumb-ass ideas...it isn't always pretty, but its the price you pay for not having the totalitarian control freaks in your business and up your butt...And its so worth it!
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Pitbulls are already naturally aggressive, but in my situation and the one in New York, its the owners like you said.
The dog would have died from lead poisoning. The Owners would have been involved in a discussion of responsible dog ownership. The discussion would have not been to their liking and hospitalization would have occurred. Pitbulls are a breed that are designed to attack and kill. I live in a neighborhood that has 2 pitbulls that are in a back yard fenced area. I have warned the owner if I see them out, the bark of the 308win will be the last thing the dog hears. Bad thing is I didnt get invited to their "block" party that was busted last week for drug possession. Man that hurt the ego!
JUGMAN :D
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Dogs like Pit Bulls are some peoples answer to low self esteem or insecurities.
What!!!!! pit bulls are now an ego booster......wow what this world has come to.
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I guess I didnt express the licsense idea correctly,suppose you wanted a certain type of dog,if it's on the list you must show proof of responsibility,insurance,ability to control etc. Now I dont think someone wanting a toy poodle or beagle would need this but if you wanted a Rottie,pit,mastif,wolfhound,etc. it should be a requirement.
Myself I placed every dog I bred into a proper home,show dogs to show homes,pets to responcible owners with a neuter clause in the contract. I even inspected the homes of a couple of owners because I wasn't comfortable with the people!
Most breeders wouldnt and dont do these things and thats a large part of the problem,anyone can mate 2 dogs and call themselves a breeder!
Oh and BTW the most aggressive dog I've ever owned was a toy poodle,he was fierce and would attack anything,he just didnt look like much of a threat!
:salute
Why are the poodle's always the seemingly nice aggressive dogs? I don't understand it at all, its crazy :headscratch:
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What!!!!! pit bulls are now an ego booster......wow what this world has come to.
Depends on the trailer size :rofl
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The dog would have died from lead poisoning. The Owners would have been involved in a discussion of responsible dog ownership. The discussion would have not been to their liking and hospitalization would have occurred. Pitbulls are a breed that are designed to attack and kill. I live in a neighborhood that has 2 pitbulls that are in a back yard fenced area. I have warned the owner if I see them out, the bark of the 308win will be the last thing the dog hears. Bad thing is I didnt get invited to their "block" party that was busted last week for drug possession. Man that hurt the ego!
JUGMAN :D
:rofl
you are another that has absolutely no frigging clue as to what you are talking about.
oh your so bad bellybutton your gonna shoot the dogs just for being "out".
90%(if not 100%) of dogs were breed for attacking and killing something.
I will say it once again....PITTBULLS today are not American Pit Bull terrier's.....plain and simple. they are NOT the same dogs as they were 30 years ago, yes you can find True American Pit Bull Terriers, but they are exceedingly rare, and that is the LAST dog you would have to worry about hurting a human.
they are NOT big mean dogs, they absolutely LOVE humans it goes against 200 years of breeding to hurt a Human. PERIOD
the dogs that they call "Pitts" today are so far from the original dog they are a completely separate breed and Have lost that love of Humans, They are NOT American Pit Bull Terriers.
I am so sick of the ignorance that surrounds this dog.
at one point in America the American Pitt Bull terrier was the most loved and respected dog...petey from the little rascals was a true fighting American Pitbull Terrier..oh ya he was a big mean dog that was viscous and just wanted to kill every thing, right.....
oh man im gonna stop now, before I blow a gasket.
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:rofl
you are another that has absolutely no frigging clue as to what you are talking about.
oh your so bad bellybutton your gonna shoot the dogs just for being "out".
90%(if not 100%) of dogs were breed for attacking and killing something.
I will say it once again....PITTBULLS today are not American Pit Bull terrier's.....plain and simple. they are NOT the same dogs as they were 30 years ago, yes you can find True American Pit Bull Terriers, but they are exceedingly rare, and that is the LAST dog you would have to worry about hurting a human.
they are NOT big mean dogs, they absolutely LOVE humans it goes against 200 years of breeding to hurt a Human. PERIOD
the dogs that they call "Pitts" today are so far from the original dog they are a completely separate breed and Have lost that love of Humans, They are NOT American Pit Bull Terriers.
I am so sick of the ignorance that surrounds this dog.
at one point in America the American Pitt Bull terrier was the most loved and respected dog...petey from the little rascals was a true fighting American Pitbull Terrier..oh ya he was a big mean dog that was viscous and just wanted to kill every thing, right.....
oh man im gonna stop now, before I blow a gasket.
Well sir....I have witnessed two attacks and one near miss of the so called tame dogs. Since you are so knowledgeable about the breed why do many of the drug pushers station these great dogs as their first line of security. Surely it is to help their PR with law enforcement and the community. I have witnessed two instances of a Pit Bull breaking their chain and attacking a walker and a person brave enough to try to help the walker. Both the dogs were taken down by neighbors with my same thoughts. We have gone from having 6 Pit Bulls down to two and those just moved in. If its my family or a stupid animal Ill give the dog two steps and he can RIP. Tame Dogs....My arse! And please blow that gasket it might help your BP. :salute
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Ink, I'm told my beloved mongrel Holly is largely APBT.
A purpose to which a considerable number of dogs are put to where I live is the hunting large, dangerous wild hogs. This is not a task for a Yorkie. They are a severe nuisance animal that can occasionally attack people, and dogs are about the only effective means of hunting them. I wonder how hog numbers shall be controlled when only "politically acceptable non-threatening" breeds are allowed.
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Ink, I'm told my beloved mongrel Holly is largely APBT.
A purpose to which a considerable number of dogs are put to where I live is the hunting large, dangerous wild hogs. This is not a task for a Yorkie. They are a severe nuisance animal that can occasionally attack people, and dogs are about the only effective means of hunting them. I wonder how hog numbers shall be controlled when only "politically acceptable non-threatening" breeds are allowed.
A wild hog can do some serious damage. Some of those suckers are huge!
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Well sir....I have witnessed two attacks and one near miss of the so called tame dogs. Since you are so knowledgeable about the breed why do many of the drug pushers station these great dogs as their first line of security. Surely it is to help their PR with law enforcement and the community. I have witnessed two instances of a Pit Bull breaking their chain and attacking a walker and a person brave enough to try to help the walker. Both the dogs were taken down by neighbors with my same thoughts. We have gone from having 6 Pit Bulls down to two and those just moved in. If its my family or a stupid animal Ill give the dog two steps and he can RIP. Tame Dogs....My arse! And please blow that gasket it might help your BP. :salute
ok I obviously came off wrong and I apologize for that.
now just because they are registered as APBT does not mean that's what they are, the dogs the Drug pushers and what not, have and use are NOT American Pit Bull terriers.
I am not saying you did not see two dogs break their chains..I am saying you did not see two American Pit Bull Terriers break there chains....they are not PittBulls.
A true Pitt Bull would not attack a human, for no good cause, even then they don't want to. They were NEVER intended for Guard duty, against humans, it goes against every thing they are.
this is my whole point the Dogs they call "Pitts" "pitbulls" are not true American Pit Bull terriers.
I would bet my Life on the fact that 100% of attacks that are attributed to PitBulls are in fact not Pit Bulls at all, but a breed of dog that came from PittBulls being crossed with other dogs so many times that they are very far from the original breed.
I truly hate what has been done to this dog breed.
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What about statistics? Are they any good? I just spent about 30 minutes searching the internet, and basically found the same information everywhere I looked. Of course, this data does not rule out the possibility that the owner/trainer can be a huge influence, and that there could be a correlation between "personality type" and the type of dog they choose to own...
In all fairness, I honestly thought I'd find some surprises (like a bunch of labs that hadn't made it into the the popular opinion poll).
"22 reported dog bite related human fatalities in the United States in 2004.
2005 - 29 human fatalities.
2006 - 26.
In 2007, there were 33 human fatalities. 45% of the attacks occurred to adults over the age of 18, and 55% occurred to ages below. Pit bull type dogs were responsible for 67% of fatalities, the next closest breed was the rottweiler at 12%. But all dog breeds are potentially dangerous. In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reported that 25 breeds of dogs were involved in 238 fatal dog bites from 1979-1998. Here it is the compiled list of the most dangerous dog breeds:
1. Pit Bulls
2. Rottweilers
3. German Shepherds
4. Huskies
5. Alaskan Malamutes
6. Doberman Pinschers
7. Chow Chow
8. Presa Canario
9. Boxer
10. Dalmatian
- For each US dog bite fatality there are about 670 hospitalizations and 16,000 emergency room visits, 21,000 other medical visits (office and clinic), and 187,000 non-medically treated bites
- 46.1% (nearly half) of dog bite injuries were triaged in emergency rooms as "urgent-emergent"
- Dog bites are the second highest reason why children seek emergency treatment
That's about 60,000 bites per fatality and that information is dated. It is reported today that a US citizen is bitten by a dog every 75 seconds."
And-
"While all dogs are potentially dangerous, some are more dangerous than others. Some breeds of dog are significantly larger and stronger than the average person, and it is the duty of their owners to use training and discipline to restrain their pets. Although socialization, training, and care can make an enormous difference, some dogs are by nature aggressive and violent creatures."
According to the Center for Disease Control, the top 10 most dangerous dogs are:
1. Pit Bulls
2. Rottweilers
3. German Shepherds
4. Huskies
5. Alaskan Malamutes
6. Doberman Pinschers
7. Chow Chows
8. Great Danes
9. St. Bernards
10. Akitas
Largely the same dogs listed everywhere I've looked...
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This one almost threw me...
Top 10 Most Dangerous, Expensive, Loyal, Fascinating Dog Breeds
Calling them “man’s best friend” may be a cliché, but no description is more apt to describe the relationship of humans with these fascinating creatures. Loyal, smart, protective, fun and playful, dogs have served as man’s ultimate companion since time immemorial. What other “mosts” are there when it comes to these canines which man has considered to be his best friend since time immemorial? How about the world’s most expensive dog breed? Or the most dangerous? Or you probably are hoping to own a canine breed which is considered to be one of the most fascinating.
1. Dog Breed: Doberman pinscher
Distinction: One of the most dangerous dog breeds in the world
2. Dog Breed: German Shepherd
Distinction: One of the most dangerous dog breeds in the world
3. Dog Breed: Rottweiler
Distinction: One of the most dangerous dog breeds in the world
4. Dog Breed: Samoyed
Distinction: One of the most expensive dog breeds in the world
5. Dog Breed: English Bulldog or British Bulldog
Distinction: One of the most expensive dog breeds in the world
6. Dog Breed: Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
Distinction: One of the most expensive dog breeds in the world
7. Dog Breed: Labrador Retriever
Distinction: One of the most popular dog breeds in the world.
8. Dog Breed: Golden Retriever
Distinction: One of the most popular dog breeds in the worlds.
9. Dog Breed: Yorkshire Terrier
Distinction: One of the most popular dog breeds in the world
10. Dog Breed: Dachshunds
Distinction: One of the most popular dog breeds in the world
You'd think that with the popularity of some of these other large dogs there would be more problems with them. At least if the owners are just a random cross-section of the population... Let's say 15% of all dog owners are idiots. If they own dogs based on a normal population spread, the most popular dogs might also appear to be the most dangerous...
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Let me get this straight.
We can reasonably say that way less than 50 people a year are killed by dogs of all kinds, in a nation of 300 million....
Yet this "dire threat" to health and safety is enough for numerous localities to try and legislate the genetic makeup of the dogs you can own?
I don't know about you gentlemen, but the ****ing control freaks scare me a lot more than dogs.
What about statistics? Are they any good? I just spent about 30 minutes searching the internet, and basically found the same information everywhere I looked. Of course, this data does not rule out the possibility that the owner/trainer can be a huge influence, and that there could be a correlation between "personality type" and the type of dog they choose to own...
In all fairness, I honestly thought I'd find some surprises (like a bunch of labs that hadn't made it into the the popular opinion poll).
"22 reported dog bite related human fatalities in the United States in 2004.
2005 - 29 human fatalities.
2006 - 26.
In 2007, there were 33 human fatalities. 45% of the attacks occurred to adults over the age of 18, and 55% occurred to ages below. Pit bull type dogs were responsible for 67% of fatalities, the next closest breed was the rottweiler at 12%. But all dog breeds are potentially dangerous. In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reported that 25 breeds of dogs were involved in 238 fatal dog bites from 1979-1998. Here it is the compiled list of the most dangerous dog breeds:
1. Pit Bulls
2. Rottweilers
3. German Shepherds
4. Huskies
5. Alaskan Malamutes
6. Doberman Pinschers
7. Chow Chow
8. Presa Canario
9. Boxer
10. Dalmatian
- For each US dog bite fatality there are about 670 hospitalizations and 16,000 emergency room visits, 21,000 other medical visits (office and clinic), and 187,000 non-medically treated bites
- 46.1% (nearly half) of dog bite injuries were triaged in emergency rooms as "urgent-emergent"
- Dog bites are the second highest reason why children seek emergency treatment
That's about 60,000 bites per fatality and that information is dated. It is reported today that a US citizen is bitten by a dog every 75 seconds."
And-
"While all dogs are potentially dangerous, some are more dangerous than others. Some breeds of dog are significantly larger and stronger than the average person, and it is the duty of their owners to use training and discipline to restrain their pets. Although socialization, training, and care can make an enormous difference, some dogs are by nature aggressive and violent creatures."
According to the Center for Disease Control, the top 10 most dangerous dogs are:
1. Pit Bulls
2. Rottweilers
3. German Shepherds
4. Huskies
5. Alaskan Malamutes
6. Doberman Pinschers
7. Chow Chows
8. Great Danes
9. St. Bernards
10. Akitas
Largely the same dogs listed everywhere I've looked...
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Let me get this straight.
We can reasonably say that way less than 50 people a year are killed by dogs of all kinds, in a nation of 300 million....
Yet this "dire threat" to health and safety is enough for numerous localities to try and legislate the genetic makeup of the dogs you can own?
I don't know about you gentlemen, but the ****ing control freaks scare me a lot more than dogs.
Ha! It's worse than you think...
They sure raise a big to-do about cancer, AIDS, etc... When the real threat is accidental death (generally around the home, and on the road)..
And beyond the control-freaks, this is normal human behavior. We almost always fear things that are far less likely to harm us than the unseen, but real, threats we face everyday. My mother-in-law won't camp out in areas that have grizzly bears or black bears. She's completely comfortable with driving though (which is far more likely to kill her). She was scared to be in the vicinity of the volcano's around Seattle and Yellowstone, but she's comfortable sleeping in a bed on an upper floor of her house(she's statistically more likely to die as a result of falling out of bed, or down her stairs).
We like to fear the things we don't need to, and ignore the things that are actually more dangerous.
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Mtnman,
while those finding dont look good for the pitbull even the CDC admits that there could be some misidentification!
I dont even see a percentage for mixed breeds.While one could expect to see the PB at the top of the list for fatalities,they're far to common and a powerful breed,they arent tops on the bite list!
Really this subject is a no win type of thing,some will claim they're the best dogs and others will claim they are the worst,when in reality is somewhere in the middle.As much as I love this "type" of dog I wouldnt want to see everyone with one. I was quite happy back 30 years ago when almost no one knew what my dogs were,Oh well like I said maybe it's time to raise hamsters!
:salute
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Mtnman,
Oh well like I said maybe it's time to raise hamsters!
If you get over-run with the little buggers I know someone who could help out :D They'll ship fine on dry ice.
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Pitbulls, popular among trailer park residents, those who own a Harley to buy an identity, and those with smaller packages than average. :rofl
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Pitbulls, popular among trailer park residents, those who own a Harley to buy an identity, and those with smaller packages than average. :rofl
Ad hominem, popular with those with those who have no real argument.
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Ink, I'm told my beloved mongrel Holly is largely APBT.
A purpose to which a considerable number of dogs are put to where I live is the hunting large, dangerous wild hogs. This is not a task for a Yorkie. They are a severe nuisance animal that can occasionally attack people, and dogs are about the only effective means of hunting them. I wonder how hog numbers shall be controlled when only "politically acceptable non-threatening" breeds are allowed.
I love that show "Hog Wild" ... I love to see those dogs work a pig. What I didn't realize was that the Great Dane is a fearless pig hunter and very effective too.
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Let me get this straight.
We can reasonably say that way less than 50 people a year are killed by dogs of all kinds, in a nation of 300 million....
Yet this "dire threat" to health and safety is enough for numerous localities to try and legislate the genetic makeup of the dogs you can own?
I don't know about you gentlemen, but the ****ing control freaks scare me a lot more than dogs.
It is a very small number. Until one of the 50 is your kid. Then it is a huge number. But hey, I want a lion pet. I don;t think the control freaks should stop me. I mean, how many people in the world die from a lion attack in a year? Probably less than 50. Wait a minute, that means that lions are safer to own than a dog. Why can;t I have one?
I also want an RPG because I am responsible. How do you know? I said so. I will only use it for hunting so I don;t need any control freaks telling me what to do! :furious
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I love that show "Hog Wild" ... I love to see those dogs work a pig. What I didn't realize was that the Great Dane is a fearless pig hunter and very effective too.
Great Danes were bred to hunt lions, yes? If so, I'd like to believe that could handle a pig, wild or not.
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Loose pit coming at me gets (http://a4.bing.com/thumb/get?bid=a0HACEoR2%2fINJA&bn=CC&fbid=7wIR63%2bClmj%2b0A&fbn=CC)...and it will not be just 1.
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Great Danes were bred to hunt lions, yes? If so, I'd like to believe that could handle a pig, wild or not.
No!
they were bred as boar hounds and carriage escorts,usually 2 danes and a dalmation were used as a team to alert the carriage the highwaymen/robbers. They are desendants of german boar hounds that are extinct now,a Molloser/mastif breed.
:salute
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How about instead of trying to regulate the genetic makeup of the dogs we are allowed to own, or try to impose some new licensing requirement for people to forget all the lessons of in a week, we just require that people do the right thing in the first place and purchase insurance for the dogs?
No matter what you do, a small number of people will die from dog attacks each year. You can't change that. What you can hope to change is how the much larger number of people who survive dog attacks are able to reconstruct their lives.
I'm sorry, but if you aren't wealthy enough to insure a certain type of vehicle, then you have no business owning one... The same thing goes for dogs.
This is regardless of the particular laws of your state. You shouldn't have to be forced to ensure you can make things right when you mess up.
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ok for all you who think "pittbulls" are Human aggressive and should be put down, just because of their breed, who have listened to the Media bull crap...if you really want to get some education, so you don't look like a fool next time you say "pitts" are "mean" "aggressive to humans" and should all be killed.....
well I give you some reading material to enlighten you on the greatest dog ever made by man :salute
http://molosserdogs.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.1151
wow this dog looks exactly like the female I owned, except she was more ripped and chocolate brown.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/apbt03.jpg)
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It is a very small number. Until one of the 50 is your kid. Then it is a huge number. But hey, I want a lion pet. I don;t think the control freaks should stop me. I mean, how many people in the world die from a lion attack in a year? Probably less than 50. Wait a minute, that means that lions are safer to own than a dog. Why can;t I have one?
I also want an RPG because I am responsible. How do you know? I said so. I will only use it for hunting so I don;t need any control freaks telling me what to do! :furious
That all sounds fine to me Dedalos. I imagine you'd make a fine neighbor. I've lived near "awful horribly dangerous pitbulls" all my life, so I'm not too worried. If you want an RPG, just make one. Its not that hard. Another reason why restrictive legislation will never work. Many of my neighbors have weapons I consider more effective and useful than RPGs anyway. Maybe that is why we're not afraid of the neighbor's dog.
The truth is, trying to remove risk through legislation does not work, and moreover, as Mountainman pointed out, it is rarely aimed at the greatest risks to life and limb, but, rather at boogeymen, usually groups that are small enough they you can get the rest of the populace behind stepping on them without too much fuss.
The REAL risk to your kid is traffic on the way to school in the morning. The REAL risk to most people's health is what they eat. Legally binding dietary restrictions would have save far more lives than some piece of legislation about dog type, written only to make a given politico look good. The only reason such restrictions are not written is that a sufficient number of people would be (justifiably) hacked off to make it political suicide. Alas for humans that they seem to lack the wisdom to understand that everything they enjoy is anathema for *somebody*, and without principled respect for others freedom, the majority will always step on the minority.
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A friend of mine has a dog that has the head and face of a pittbull, but it stands about 3 feet tall. Its taller than a small child, and almost as long as I am tall. Although it is probably the biggest dog i have ever seen, it is a giant teddy bear. It does nothing but lay around all day. It's probably the nicest dog ive ever been around, but then again ive seen chihuahuas that are more violent than some ex convicts, as stated before it all depends on the owner and how the dog is treated.
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It is a very small number. Until one of the 50 is your kid. Then it is a huge number.
From a statistical side of things, 50 is incredibly low if that is indeed the number. The "until it is your kid" argument is just catering to emotions and has no value in deciding if something is safe. If the number was 1 death every ten years you could make the same comment.
And again, that number may have no correlation at all to the breed, which goes back to the "tough guy owner" argument.
I mean, how many people in the world die from a lion attack in a year? Probably less than 50. Wait a minute, that means that lions are safer to own than a dog. Why can;t I have one?
Epic strawman. If the number of dog owners in the united states all had lions instead, you think the number of deaths would only be 50? The two are not comparable. One is a wild feline, the other is a domesticated canine.
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That all sounds fine to me Dedalos. I imagine you'd make a fine neighbor. I've lived near "awful horribly dangerous pitbulls" all my life, so I'm not too worried. If you want an RPG, just make one. Its not that hard. Another reason why restrictive legislation will never work. Many of my neighbors have weapons I consider more effective and useful than RPGs anyway. Maybe that is why we're not afraid of the neighbor's dog.
More effective than an RPG? Where are you at? Down town Baghdad?
The REAL risk to your kid is traffic on the way to school in the morning. The REAL risk to most people's health is what they eat.
I do believe there are rules on how you should behave on the road and you do have to be licensed to drive. How about in your neighborhood? I also think there is this thing called the FDA having some rules on food?
Actually, I would make a great neighbor. I don't bother anyone and can take a lot of abuse before I even say anything. If you go back a few posts you will see that my original question was "why would you have an animal that can take you down at home". If your dog was well behaved he/she would be over playing with mine everyday. If my kid came home crying because your dog bit her you would have to move your trailer to a different park :neener:
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More effective than an RPG? Where are you at? Down town Baghdad?
Rifles accurate to 500 yards. And like I told you, RPGs and many other nasty things aren't that hard to improvise anyway.
I do believe there are rules on how you should behave on the road and you do have to be licensed to drive.
And STILL letting your neighbors have cars is orders of magnitude more dangerous than letting them have pitbulls. And there is no need for it. Through bicycles, public transportation, and issuance of hardship licenses for those who REALLY need cars, we could cut these deaths dramatically.
Don't even get me started on the consequences of unregulated REPRODUCTION...
The difference is that people who want to go from point A to point B whenever they want in their own personal contraption or have children exist in numbers much greater than those who own pitbulls. Its cowardice, really.
I also think there is this thing called the FDA having some rules on food?
Yet still they fail to prevent us from eating ourselves into diabetes and massive heart attacks...so obviously the rules need to be tightened up. Of course, then you'll have people running hot cheesecake in from Canada... :devil
Actually, I would make a great neighbor. I don't bother anyone and can take a lot of abuse before I even say anything. If you go back a few posts you will see that my original question was "why would you have an animal that can take you down at home". If your dog was well behaved he/she would be over playing with mine everyday. If my kid came home crying because your dog bit her you would have to move your trailer to a different park :neener:
Well, any dog large enough to not resemble a large rodent to me CAN take you down. Maybe owning cattle, I have a different perspective...I'd guess the damage an 1800 pound animal can do is orders of magnitude greater than that of any dog. (I once had to shoot 4 dogs that had begun running together and killing calves btw. Funny...none of them were Pit mixes. It also illustrates why I think dogs are not a huge threat to life, liberty, and property.) I also realize that when I'm in the pen with those cattle, only my own sense, experience, and agility can keep me from injury, not written rules from on high. ("Hello, 911, I'm being gored by an angry hiefer"...somehow I think the response time would be too long to do me any good.)
What if my dog comes home missing an eye because your kid threw a rock at it? I've known kids, I've known dogs, I KNOW which is more vicious. :D Seriously, this isn't about whether or not I have responsibility to you if my dog does something to you and yours. Clearly I do...whether that dog be black lab or pittbull.
Oh, and I've never lived in one of those tin cans at any point in my entire life. :D
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Rifles accurate to 500 yards. And like I told you, RPGs and many other nasty things aren't that hard to improvise anyway.
And STILL letting your neighbors have cars is orders of magnitude more dangerous than letting them have pitbulls. And there is no need for it. Through bicycles, public transportation, and issuance of hardship licenses for those who REALLY need cars, we could cut these deaths dramatically.
Don't even get me started on the consequences of unregulated REPRODUCTION...
The difference is that people who want to go from point A to point B whenever they want in their own personal contraption or have children exist in numbers much greater than those who own pitbulls. Its cowardice, really.
Yet still they fail to prevent us from eating ourselves into diabetes and massive heart attacks...so obviously the rules need to be tightened up. Of course, then you'll have people running hot cheesecake in from Canada... :devil
Well, any dog large enough to not resemble a large rodent to me CAN take you down. Maybe owning cattle, I have a different perspective...I'd guess the damage an 1800 pound animal can do is orders of magnitude greater than that of any dog. (I once had to shoot 4 dogs that had begun running together and killing calves btw. Funny...none of them were Pit mixes. It also illustrates why I think dogs are not a huge threat to life, liberty, and property.) I also realize that when I'm in the pen with those cattle, only my own sense, experience, and agility can keep me from injury, not written rules from on high. ("Hello, 911, I'm being gored by an angry hiefer"...somehow I think the response time would be too long to do me any good.)
What if my dog comes home missing an eye because your kid threw a rock at it? I've known kids, I've known dogs, I KNOW which is more vicious. :D Seriously, this isn't about whether or not I have responsibility to you if my dog does something to you and yours. Clearly I do...whether that dog be black lab or pittbull.
Oh, and I've never lived in one of those tin cans at any point in my entire life. :D
:rofl I can't reply to all of this. I have been beaten :lol
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ok for all you who think "pittbulls" are Human aggressive and should be put down, just because of their breed, who have listened to the Media bull crap...if you really want to get some education, so you don't look like a fool next time you say "pitts" are "mean" "aggressive to humans" and should all be killed.....
well I give you some reading material to enlighten you on the greatest dog ever made by man :salute
http://molosserdogs.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.1151
wow this dog looks exactly like the female I owned, except she was more ripped and chocolate brown.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/apbt03.jpg)
Would look better with a hole between the eyes....IMHO
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ok I obviously came off wrong and I apologize for that.
now just because they are registered as APBT does not mean that's what they are, the dogs the Drug pushers and what not, have and use are NOT American Pit Bull terriers.
I am not saying you did not see two dogs break their chains..I am saying you did not see two American Pit Bull Terriers break there chains....they are not PittBulls.
A true Pitt Bull would not attack a human, for no good cause, even then they don't want to. They were NEVER intended for Guard duty, against humans, it goes against every thing they are.
this is my whole point the Dogs they call "Pitts" "pitbulls" are not true American Pit Bull terriers.
I would bet my Life on the fact that 100% of attacks that are attributed to PitBulls are in fact not Pit Bulls at all, but a breed of dog that came from PittBulls being crossed with other dogs so many times that they are very far from the original breed.
I truly hate what has been done to this dog breed.
I will conceed one point. It is about the owner and how they treat them. I dont trust a Pit Bull at all. My hand goes to my gun as soon as I see one even on a leash. Yes I carry concealed.
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I will conceed one point. It is about the owner and how they treat them. I dont trust a Pit Bull at all. My hand goes to my gun as soon as I see one even on a leash. Yes I carry concealed.
did you read the site I posted?
"your hand goes to your gun even when on a leash"....WoW
that speaks Volumes as to what kind of person you are, thanx for the info :rofl
a heart that pumps koolaid.
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Hmmm...honestly Ink, while I think YG's fear might be a tad excessive, I am much more comfortable with him being prepared to defend himself, if necessary, than I would be if his "solution" were another bit of intrusive nanny-statism.
YG, you realize that there are people who are hysterically afraid of you having a firearm in your possession? Often enough they are the same people who would ban some dogs. Something to think about. This "there oughtta be a law!" knee-jerkism is a very bad trend, IMO.
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You know BnZ I agree with your point completely,my idea to liscense owners was an alternitive to a breed ban!
I'm all in favour for a dangerous dog law that doesnt look at the breed but the dog. One of my Staffies could be a therapy dog,she'd love all the attention and would brighten an otherwise bland day for some unfortunate soul thats couped up in a hospital but I'd have to muzzel her and that would just make people afraid!
I spent many hours training her to do this and was about to take the test to get certified when some politions decieded to make a name for himself and ban pitbulls. Strangly enough they didnt ban "bullterriers",I think because the well known Canadian Don Cherry owned 1 and they'd never have heard the end of that 1. Their reason was you can tell a bullterrier from a pitbull but because you cant tell a Staffordshire Bull Terrier from a pitbull they were included.
In parlament the opposition even argued that the Staffie Bulls are known as nannydogs as they were often used to look after kids!
:salute
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Hmmm...honestly Ink, while I think YG's fear might be a tad excessive, I am much more comfortable with him being prepared to defend himself, if necessary, than I would be if his "solution" were another bit of intrusive nanny-statism.
YG, you realize that there are people who are hysterically afraid of you having a firearm in your possession? Often enough they are the same people who would ban some dogs. Something to think about. This "there oughtta be a law!" knee-jerkism is a very bad trend, IMO.
tad excessive is putting it mildly, it's straight up gutless, I don't carry a gun, never have never will, not that I don't like guns, but I am more of a sword kinda guy :D
I don't understand fear like that at all, its very unhealthy.
I have always been one to face my fears head on....I have stood before certain death and never wavered in my resolve, so to hear him say that just makes me :headscratch:
I just don't understand it, especially from a man....a woman ya, that I could understand.
I don't know.... I am flabbergasted by what he said.
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tad excessive is putting it mildly, it's straight up gutless, I don't carry a gun, never have never will, not that I don't like guns, but I am more of a sword kinda guy :D
God made big men...god made little men... Smith and Wesson made all men equal.
I carry and again if a loose pit came at me it would be a dead pit.
I also understand the breed has been bastardized. The things bred today are not pits. They are too big, too aggressive but that is how the "wannabe thugs" want them.
IMO I'm guessing the "wannabe thugs" need a slug more than the dogs they breed.
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God made big men...god made little men... Smith and Wesson made all men equal.
I carry and again if a loose pit came at me it would be a dead pit.
I also understand the breed has been bastardized. The things bred today are not pits. They are too big, too aggressive but that is how the "wannabe thugs" want them.
IMO I'm guessing the "wannabe thugs" need a slug more than the dogs they breed.
I agree..... especially with the last sentence.
heck I have no problem with someone protecting himself, if any dog attacks a human THAT dog should be put down.(and the owner held responsible)
the whole breed specific laws are bullcrap.
that's like racial profiling, absolutely retarded.
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that's like racial profiling, absolutely retarded.
Or, like racial profiling, backed up by a certain amount of statistical evidence, but still ethically unconscionable to people who value freedom and individuality.
If drop a principle at the first hint of a pragmatic reason to do so, you never had a principle to begin with.
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Or, like racial profiling, backed up by a certain amount of statistical evidence, but still ethically unconscionable to people who value freedom and individuality.
:D
stop it now.....I can argue all day long about being forced to live a certain way..which leads to the "statistical evidence"......but that would be a huge NO NO here in a political free forum.
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:D
stop it now.....I can argue all day long about being forced to live a certain way..which leads to the "statistical evidence"......but that would be a huge NO NO here in a political free forum.
Well...I think if all it takes to convince people to accept totalitarianism is a "good reason", the good reason will be manufactured, hence my remark about principles, but you are right, that is straying off topic.
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So, I can have my lion? Woot!!!! :D
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So, I can have my lion? Woot!!!! :D
I would rather have a Siberian Tiger, I pet one once that was over 800 lbs :O
I was looking for a place to give my gators to, and heard about a guy in Greenville NH that had a small zoo, so went to see if he wanted my gators, he brought me around the park and let me pet "Thunder" wow you don't realize how big these cats are until you are up close and personal, they make a Lion look small.
but ya you could if you have enough money. :D
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I would rather have a Siberian Tiger, I pet one once that was over 800 lbs :O
I was looking for a place to give my gators to, and heard about a guy in Greenville NH that had a small zoo, so went to see if he wanted my gators, he brought me around the park and let me pet "Thunder" wow you don't realize how big these cats are until you are up close and personal, they make a Lion look small.
but ya you could if you have enough money. :D
LOL, my kids pet one in the Milwaukee zoo I think (not sure about location). It was a baby and they held the bottle for it. I don't think they realized back then how big they get cause they wanted to adopt one :lol
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YG, you realize that there are people who are hysterically afraid of you having a firearm in your possession? Often enough they are the same people who would ban some dogs. Something to think about. This "there oughtta be a law!" knee-jerkism is a very bad trend, IMO.
Considering there is ample evidence that we live in a "me-first" society where no one gives a damn about anyone else, I am comfortable seeking a law that would require people to buy insurance that will cover damages inflicted upon me by their property.
Ideally, there shouldn't need to be a law, but it is obvious that need exists.
I'm sick and tired of judgment-proof people walking all over those who work, save, and make something of themselves. If my dog attacks you and I haven't insured for that, then you might take my house to cover your medical expenses. If a judgment-proof citizen's dog attacks you, well gee, my mortgage gets a little harder for me to pay, because I still have to (help) cover your medical expenses.
That's not right.
The bottom line is that various types of insurances will cover (for a song, usually) most types of dogs. A few select breeds command high premiums, and can be very difficult to insure. If he can't afford to insure it, then a poor man has no more business with a high-premium breed than he has driving a Lamborghini down the city streets.
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Comparing owning a dangerous breed like a Pit Bull to owning a firearm is beyond ridiculous. Makes a comparison that isn't even close to valid as those are two entirely different things. One, an inanimate object without a will or ability to act own it's own, the other a living creature capable of taking action without, or in direct defiance of human command.
I have never heard of a firearm running loose, jumping a fence, attacking people, including small children by itself, of it's own accord. Way too many accounts of dangerous dogs doing just that, leaving containment, yards, breaking ropes and chains, attacking without provocation.
To compare the two, to attempt to justify owning a dangerous breed just because guns are dangerous when handled or used by idiots, well, as an argument it just fails. How about comparing owning a Pit Bull to owning a car, cars kill too you know. Maybe we should be able to keep grizzly bears in our backyards? Why not, hey, what right does the gov't have to say we can't? Or lions? How about keeping coral snakes in your yard? We have rights, right? :rolleyes:
I would go along with this, you can keep a dangerous breed of dog, but if it ever attacks someone, you go to prison for life, no possibility of parole. Why not, surely owners of dangerous breeds should do everything in their power to make sure it never hurts anyone. This would guarantee their vigilance. Works for me, but of course I don't need to own a Pit Bull. I don't care if anyone thinks I am a bad-ass or not, and don't need a dog to try to prove something like that.
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Dago,
you make a valid arguement,you cant compare guns and dogs or cars for that matter! unfortunately the dog that committed the attack wasnt a pitbull but that doesnt stop people from blaming a dog not involved simply because they know no better.
The correct thing to be upset about are dangerous dogs,not pitbulls,yes a pitbull/pitmix can be a dangerous dog as can a Lab or shepard but that doesnt mean they all are. I for 1 dont think just anyone should own this type of dog,and I mean dogs that come from the Molloser family.Most of them with the exception of the pitbulls were bred as gaurdians/watchdogs and or herding,as a result these dogs are large,powerful and not good with strangers. The pits were bred for another purpose but thats been corupted and other breeds mixed into them and it's caused the issues we have today.
To outright say that all pits are vicsous or dangerous in a ignorant statement simply because it isnt true! I've owned over a dozen Bullterriers and Staffies over the past 30 years and never have I had an issue with an agressive dog.
I've owned some other breeds that were much more agressive and I didnt want the responsibility of owning such a dangerous dog so I went to the bullterriers because the "look" of the dog was enough to keep my house and family safe.
My house is one of the few homes in my area thats never been broken into,Hmmmmm I wonder why. :rofl :rofl :rofl
Now if you hapen to enter my house,the dogs will show you to the fridge and offer a beer,so long as you give them a treat!!.......... dont tell anyone this because I prefer that people dont know they're actually friendly. :aok
:salute
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To label a dog breed as a dangerous breed, in my opinion requires more than just a consideration of the number of attacks, but rather must include a consideration of the violence, damage done by the attack. A Chihuahua might attack, and pesky little bastards can nip, but you're not usually going to see anyone seriously injured or die. A Pit Bull attacks, serious damage is done, every time, and too often someone dies. So, don't just discuss which is most likely to attack, but consider the whole picture, to include propensity to attack and the result on people or other animals of the attack. Haven't heard too many incidents of a Pit Bull just nipping a person and running away. (I did have a German Shepard bite me when I was 14, he clamped on to my leg, I yelled, he let go and ran, pretty sure a yell wouldn't have dissuaded a Pit Bull).
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That's just it Dago,you cant label a "breed" but you can look at individual dogs and determine wheter that dog is dangerous or not!
Again the topic has gone from an unfortunate death to a small child by a dog that is not a pitbull,the Cane Corso is a large Italian Mastif that is bred to be a gaurd and shouldnt be around small children without supervision. No child should be around any dog without supervision,we dont think of Pomeranians as dangerous but 1 killed a child!
But your intitled to your opinion and I wont try to diswade you!
:salute
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I'm sick and tired of judgment-proof people walking all over those who work, save, and make something of themselves. If my dog attacks you and I haven't insured for that, then you might take my house to cover your medical expenses. If a judgment-proof citizen's dog attacks you, well gee, my mortgage gets a little harder for me to pay, because I still have to (help) cover your medical expenses.
I'm kind of sick of artificial "problems" being used as an excuse to add to the millions of regulations already in existent. We pay for a criminal justice system to discourage such things as "negligent homicide".
Hey, I've got it! Make gun insurance mandatory! If your gun can kill say, 6 people without reloading, make it a legal requirement that you carry enough insurance on it to pay damages and replace 6 incomes. Although I am not quite sure what to do about the high-powered rifles, popular for deer hunting...one of those could theoretically kill 2-3 people per round, if you catch them lined up. Oh well, I'm sure the insurance people will work out the details once gun insurance becomes mandatory. :aok
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See Rule #4
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I'm kind of sick of artificial "problems" being used as an excuse to add to the millions of regulations already in existent. We pay for a criminal justice system to discourage such things as "negligent homicide".
Dog bites are not an artificial problem. Granted, this is definitely a biased site, but consider this:
The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2010 there were 34 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance.
To heck with the fatalities (I do not understand why people bring all these threads down to fatalities... They aren't the major problem)... What about the people injured yearly? Do you see that last statistic right there? $1 billion per year, 3/10 of it paid by homeowners insurance. Where is the other 7/10 coming from?
Throwing a guy in jail may be great for vengeance but it does absolutely nothing to pay your medical bills.
(For the record - I'm arguing for necessary insurance in Connecticut only. If you like paying for the mistakes of others feel free to argue against it for your home state).
Edit- here's the link (again, it is biased, but I'm just using it for the dog bite numbers, which should be fairly accurate): http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/dog-bite-statistics.html (http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/dog-bite-statistics.html)
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See Rule #4
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Throwing a guy in jail may be great for vengeance but it does absolutely nothing to pay your medical bills.
I could come up with similar agitprop statistics against guns, beer, or motorcycles.
The point is not to pay my medical bills. To quote the philosopher, ***** happens. If a large tree branch falls and hits me in the head, that is no more my fault or "fair" than a dog bite, but I still have to pay my own bills.
The point is punishing and discouraging irresponsible behavior. Giving someone a harsh sentence for death/injury caused by their negligence is just. Effectively *fining* someone for owning what may be a gentle dog and which they may in fact be keeping responsibly and which poses 0 threat to anyone is NOT just.
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I could come up with similar agitprop statistics against guns, beer, or motorcycles.
The point is not to pay my medical bills. To quote the philosopher, ***** happens. If a large tree branch falls and hits me in the head, that is no more my fault or "fair" than a dog bite, but I still have to pay my own bills.
The point is punishing and discouraging irresponsible behavior. Giving someone a harsh sentence for death/injury caused by their negligence is just. Effectively *fining* someone for owning what may be a gentle dog and which they may in fact be keeping responsibly and which poses 0 threat to anyone is NOT just.
You are only half-right with your analogy. If a tree branch falls on your head in some unowned woods, then yeah, it's your problem. If you come into my yard and that tree branch I own drops a branch on you, then it's my problem.
You have a right to own property. You have NO right to--unlawfully--inflict damages upon another individual with your property. A dog is your property.
If your property unlawfully injures another person, then it becomes YOUR responsibility to make things right. Not the injured party, not the state, not the hospital, not all your neighbors paying higher prices for services and higher taxes to make up for your negligence.
If you think your dog is some omnipotent, infallible creature capable of being the next Pope, then you should be able to opt out of insurance, but ONLY if you can demonstrate that YOU YOURSELF can make things right out of your OWN pocket.
You should not be allowed to drive around on the streets without insurance just because you think you're a great driver, and you should not be allowed to walk your dog around on the streets without the ability to cover any damages your dog may inflict.
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This has gone completely off track.